Nibley City Council
2026-04-10
manner there are some utilities that through brag for example heat The Heat Program yeah so if they were to that would in help them to be able to pay their water right but we we haven't identified since last time any sort of help from on a need basis that that somebody could yeah I am not aware of any for these specific utilities and to me that kind of makes sense and we are always flexible we shut people up if they need a little bit extra time I really find myself in fing people you know working with people they give exra days that they just cannot do it and we we have very few shut offs of it and we just want to help them to be responsible and to pay for their bills so how many shut offs a year I say see we really only do two to three a month if that like I said this month we had zero we had everybody who had even paid and we have four people with to pay two of them have since paid and one more is paying at the beginning of next week so zero really and so to you know about 20 5 to 30 a year if that so I am concerned that this will make more people your crystal ball well not not right because I don't know but I'm in your crystal ball what do you think yeah I think in they can catch up as well and they will be you know able to um eventually at least pay that minimum that is due to keeping the shut off list yeah and I'm I'm I'm not asking about being on the path to shut off asking about actual go turn the valve sh off utility but how many actually had their service shut off last year or on average per month is that the two to three yeah okay yeah and and then just to be clear um what do you think do you think that number will go up or go down if the council adopts these changes yes though I do think that it is possible that the can go up but like I said I try I do everything in my to not shut people um and so if there's any new way we need to um Amy is really great at working getting on a payment plan plan so that they can pay a little bit extra each month to get CAU up so I mean I can't see that that in the beginning that that shut off number will have just a little bit um but in theun I think it will um kind of fil out to what we are doing right now to how many people we are sh and if we if we help people understand the importance of staying burn might be P Ball's not any better than anybody else's it might be that people are able to take action sooner yes so far yeah I do feel like that we are just kind of enabling people sometimes giving them so long to get their bill um paid they don't think it's a priority oh I've got plenty of time to pay my city bill they put it off they pay other bills so I feel like we're teaching them some responsibility to stay current on their bills and to get up on their bills so um okay I I do think that is a good thing as our attorney looked at I have a legal question about you know can we when they F when people fall behind on their water bill we're now proposing that we would actually withhold all all city services including trash collection is that am I correct on that um I think the legislator just legislator just passed something about that was in the summary that Talon provided I might have misread it or misunderstood it too um well and I think I know that I think I know the portion you're talking about in proposed amendment um we we have a number of newer developments in Ni uh specifically town homes and dominions where there's one met for building um this amendment to the code would then allow ni City staff to contact waste management to cease only the trash and recycling services where we can't turn off water for an entire building and presid so that's justly City staff to take another utility to so did those did those residents patrons uh I'm not sure how the an HOA or whatever the management company if they actually receive their own bill if there's only one water meter for a whole number of units do they receive an individual water bill do we know or do they do they pay that to their ho yes they um each individual town does receive their own water bill each unit by a individual yes each unit is its own address it has its own water bill that they are only paying a $15.15 base fee that is it so then we have one water meter that is on a separate account that the HOA manages and that is that um account is given however many units are hooked up to that account it is given 5,000 Gall for each one of those units and then once they go above that threshold they are charged for uh water usage okay so thank you yeah so we just have no leverage with these town homes and so we just wanted to include that if they are delinquent they are not paying their bill we can suspend garbage service to try to collect our utilities thank you make a motion to approve 7510 we have a motion we have a second thank you second from Aon the motion is to approve ordinance 25 pen uh Aaron seconded that so further discussion on the motion please seeing none is there opposition to voting seeing none there we will vote so this will be second reading and this will be uh this this will become ordinance if we adopt this ter will you please call the passes thanks time okay next let's go to uh an amendment to the interlocal agreement for dispatch Services uh this is the second time we we continued this from from our last meeting and I think Justin there was some additional information available in terms of it's it's oh yeah yeah sorry yeah you sent some some additional information out yeah sorry second Nathan requested old original agreement and when we got digging into it it really started with just resolution resolution resolution then it went to an actual agreement and this is an amendment to that agreement so I don't know if you have any questions about those but no I actually learned some because of the delay and I mind talking about it in Open Session I mean one of the things that I probably couldn't respond to very well last meeting was well what if we don't pay it right um um this is kind of a funny deal because Logan City is providing this service and they actually don't have to and if Logan City decides not to provide this service it will fall to the county to provide this service and it to me it sounded like what the Logan City Finance director explain through the through many things that request for additional information is you know this this is a little bit of a house of parts and if one city falls out that that could very well trigger you know the event that moves it from Logan City to the county now having said that and looking at their numbers and the increase that they're asking for the service that they provide the the volume of calls that they provide I believe we are getting a very uh Equitable service from Logan City and there would be a top transition perod to move it away from from Logan I think at this point into the county so um I probably have a bigger concern based on recent history that Logan would say we don't want to do this anymore and so I'm I'm inclined to not encourage Logan to say that that's my own opinion yours motion to approve Amendment to the interlock AG for dispat between C and we have a motion second from there uh so the motion is to approve the amendment to the interlocal agreement for dispatch Services made by Norm seconded by Aon I'm I'm changing you guys up a little bit because um I sat in on an LPC meeting remotely uh political what is it legislative policy committee with Fiasco when I came to Parliament forceed yourself and so it caused me to Bone up a little bit um on on um on how how things run and actually people have this I won't get too far off pent here but people have this kind of goofy idea about a friendly Amendment and we've talked about how an amendment once it's made and seconded then it's no longer belongs to the person who made the motion or second it to the body and they can amend it any way they want they don't have to ask for a friendly Amendment now there is something called a friendly Amendment but there's a very very limited period of time that a friendly amendment can be negotiated with the person who made the amendment and that is between the motion occurring and the chair stating the motion after that there's no such thing as a friendly Amendment even if you're trying to be friendly so every I guess by that definition every Amendment it's accept that short period of time when you're help trying to help the the the motion make a better motion but once the chair States the motion and it's after the second then the friendly amendment period stops and we've never had problems with friendly amendments anyway are you Sugg no I'm just everyone looked at me like why isn't he saying what the motion was before there was a second now if you didn't hear the motion say I didn't hear the motion I'm not sure if I can second it and then I can I can State the motion without the second we good on that okay thanks for being no so with that detour I think we have a motion in a second to adopt the interlocal agreement is there is there an objection to V same done CHL let's call the RO yes in favor fav I see that as for in favor and none opposed motion passes thank you Council uh next we have uh welcome Mayor Miller um we we appreciate you being here and we'll let you guys decide how to to divide this up uh we had a workshop before on the services and the contract and fee for those services that DBL residents receive for the logen library dis strike that Justin do you have anything to add and how about if we give Justin a chance and Stephanie we'll welcome you I'm just here to so the only addition to what was brought up at the the workshop was an email from s um uh Emily or the librarian about the list that was I was trying to do some research on that dig that out unfortunately Amy is on vacation in Hawaii I was able to find an old list uh wasn't quite what I thought uh we were looking for what what you were asking for so so really I wasn't able to verify any of that or be able to really audit any of that stuff um so I don't really have much more to talk about or propose okay thanks and Emily we appreciate you being here we appreciate the service you've provided for irum and for nibble and Wellsville all these years thank you very much um we can just go to council questions if you prefer or we'll let okay Council I'll turn it to you so it's up for vote tonight if you're so inclined and and timeliness is important here since we have the end of the fiscal year and you guys need to write a budget so any questions for for each other um it is it is the first reading on this yep absolutely so resolutions get two readings if you desire um it'd be good to it would help me if if you if you let me know in a in a motion as to whether this is for first reading because we'll probably have the discussion differently um if it's first reading versus second actually mayor sorry I did forget the actually the one thing if I could that I was going to mention that was additional information and you correct me if I'm wrong but I believe H the ham city council did pass this resolution so hm has passed the resolution three three weeks ago same same time we had correct take a minute and let you know it's wonderful to have your C library we um enjoy having them they we have a lot of them 91 that are active users right now accounts and you know we like to be able to reach out and offer that to you if you are interested in that if you're not that's fine but that's what we're doing is just reaching out to say you know do you do you want to be in a contract with us um and if not maybe there's another way you want to go about it because I've heard something about um you having the citizen pay the fees and then come and get funded that's fine with us too or if you want them to just be on their own that's fine so there really is nothing but just us offering this service if if it's something that you feel you want to do yeah Stephanie I probably um we we talked about that you know Emily and with with Wellsville and Stephanie I kind of feel oblig ated to bring alternatives to the council so that's one of the Alternatives we discussed in hirum at the meeting was um well let me let me talk about what what problem we were trying to Sol I I thought this other alternative Sol so we've Emily you tell us it's a four person month effort no it's a one person four month effort okay I think yeah one person for four months four person month something okay um to colate and count and keep track of who the patrons of the library are under the old contract because nibbly city was build per household that uses the library yes and so the new the proposed contract adopted by the hon council is that we would do away with that accounting anyway and we go to a per household payment in thebly regardless of whether that household uses the library or not but at a reduced rate than the user rate that was previously charged so so that's that's one of the things we were trying to avoid is that accounting that owner as accounting correct about going to the per household rate instead of per user rate can I just say really quick that doesn't mean that we would not go through accounts and make sure that they still live in niply or still are you know active users or anything like that we would we still go through accounts annually that's you know just to make it so that you're not paying for someone who used to live in nibbly but now is pay you know that make sense that you're not paying for somebody who's moved outside of nippley so so to follow up so you said we have 900 active users so 900 people have checked out a book or used their Library services within the last couple months and yes yeah but we're but we're we're not going to keep track of that anymore right we're not keeping track of like the major active users we're not going to keep users in our library don't actually live in that makes sense we're not just keeping dead accounts yeah so I may to me what makes sense is they'll still want to do the accounting because on their end for their purposes but it won't be tied to nibbly City's Bill nib City's bill will just be here's the number of houses houses here's what you owe people outside of nii then they need to do their own accounting for that so that's to continue that alternative of something like to re to alleviate the library of having to count active users under the old system the current system uh and then send ibly a bill for that it it means that all you have to do at the library is verify residency and if they're a resident of hyam then they use library and if they're not a resident of Hyrum uh say it's 70 it's you just ask for $75 now I don't want to abandon Library patrons that live in nibi and so the fix for that is the library user then we nibbly City the council will decide uh would reimburse the p that paid for the nonresident access to the library go directly from Hyrum to nib city offices and say I I want here here's my receipt and so I'm requesting reimbursement so we're still paying on a per user basis but we relieve you of the accounting we would do the accounting but it's not that hard because they show up with the receipt and and we'd have to work out how quickly that reimbursement could be made I mean I think for it to work it has to be made in real time um it's like show me the receipt we'll write you a check I have to talk to Amy about this yeah have to double check yeah but anyway um that was discussed uh I brought it up because I thought it might be a way to fix the the four person accounting problem and still give people that live in nibi essentially not essentially it's free access to the library it's actually access paid for out of the general fund by all newly citizens now the problem with that and I reached out to some Library patrons and they said it's it's fine but it's just another thing you know it's it's they're probably going they often going to the library because they have kids that enjoy the library and it's great get the kids out of the house go to the library and they just want to go home they don't want to go to newly offices and ask for money for using the library so it's an inconvenience for sure and Emily you pointed that out when we were discussing that um I I will admit that there are variants on that and perhaps the council would want to yeah so I guess it was a Freudian slip maybe the council would want to offer the $75 reimbursement to a nii resident regardless of which Library they chose to patronize so for example the Logan Library if they felt they got enough out of the Logan Library card to chip I think it's 165 a year uh for a nonresident household Logan Library card so 65 minus 165 - 75 that'd be the the part they would have to contribute from their their own personal money to use Logan Library anyway it's an alternative now you mentioned that one of the reasons we want to go to a per household instead of per user agreement is to simplified accounting but then I I read the proposed agreement item 11 says hirum shall prepare and maintain records suitable for nibi to tell us who the nibbly patrons are okay how is that different then um it's a simple report that we can run that that I I did that today when he asked me for a ni list and I and I had my staff member run a ni report and we emailed it off to her those are that's a raw report without going through every single account it's a raw report of who is a dly resident so it's it's I mean to me those sound like the same thing it's just the one we're the bill and one word that doesn't affect the bill I mean it's still a report of it's still a report but it's not a report thoroughly gone through to make sure that we're billing you the accurate number of um active PID for users so it be less labor intensive and less accurate than the report we receive if you just asked for a report I could run one right now but that report won't tell us it won't it won't be um it won't be as accurate as the one that we go through starting in January because I I mean I I'm not I'm not being critical of the agreement it it doesn't really say how accurate it says it'll serve the purposes of both parties and so do we get to tell you what serves our purposes probably not okay that's on the city council not me I just check on okay I'll be quiet for a while thanks yeah can I have a quick clarifying question I was curious about it I never sh I got clear Direction on when when it's 900 patrons is that like per active house but there was discussion about the E sorry liby as I was called so is that worst case 450 houses that have both a library and a Libby or how do that split and what is I would say it's probably 9010 that have an extra account for livyes if there an active liy user yes so you're saying 90% check normal yes and in and in the past agreement nible City would be charged for the book check your book out and it would also be charged for the liby account yes they're only charged for the card not the liby account they're charged for the account the physical card that they have so when you have a liby account you have to have a physical card because it's attached it's it's if you have a household account the STA can come in and get an additional card so an additional account for living purposes only was newly charged an additional was that another user yes that's another user yes okay so the so one house could have multiple user charges if they have a young family they would have two if they have you know adult children living with them and they can come in and get their own library card then it would be more than that like if two people people two extra people came in and got a card they' be charged four cards total okay the old system that's the old system yes theoretically you know if you had a few older children you would pay for four accounts or nibble City would be paying irum the 35 it was 25 now what was the old one uh the old one was 44 44 so it would have paid you know theoretically four 44 charges for that one house where you know in this new system every house is charged less money but but the reason that was important to me to try to understand try to figure out is is it's you know the reason behind and trying to be more uh Fair Equitable about how much hon pays versus how much nibbly pays to try to understand where that was and so if that makes sense that's why that number I feel is important but if we're going the New Direction uh on either of the ones that really have been talked about like it it becomes a move Point like it doesn't it doesn't matter can you share with them the price that City citizens um as of right now it's approximately $199 per active user and Nibley Wellsville and then the county all pay $44 a year per AC for active account yeah yeah because each account of 00 it could represent a whole right yeah yeah and I mean that's that's very good information to have I can see why a citizen Council would say well that's not fair and that's you know that's difference between owning and renting part of that right I mean um you're building and buying and owning an the library that is well you know we because of the amount of users we have doubled the story times um there's a lot more coming to activities we've had to hire more heal and so that's where some of this cost is coming into but honestly it's up to you what you want to do we're just willing to let you use the library if you if you would like to but if it's not something you want to go with no offense we're good so you just have to decide what's best if there's any other questions that we can answer for you we're happy to yeah yeah so looking over your proposed budget and expenses what do you feel like your biggest paino is on your finances is it like you don't have enough materials or is it you don't have enough staff to cover all the needs or so right now it's um it's the cost for both um and the ebooks and audio books everything has increased in price you know last year a and this year it's $32 and with ebooks and E audio books which is where we see the trends going more um you're you're looking at $75 for a 12 month usage of one um ebook or and it can it can Skyrocket from there um I personally refuse to purchase ones that are over $100 because I cannot afford it in my budget um last month I purchased I think 10 ebooks and E audio books combined and I spent almost $1,000 so the cost of everything is expensive now that is not just that's publisher Publishers were trying to play the game but um so but we have to play their game and that's was it cost so that's where the need is comeing from as well in the proposed agreement item four it says that nle City will have a member of the board on the library if you're contracted with right and that it will be a choice made by ni City yes for that board member what it says now item item four can we we agree what are we doing now for the board member from the so right here this is the way I was traed and and how I've always known how to do the library board that typically I pick an active user of the library because I want somebody who uses the library knows the library and knows like our programs and stuff so I'll kind of jot down a couple names I take it to my library board and they will give me additional names or you know they'll agree with my my decision or whatever and then our city council member will reach out to that individual and extend them an invitation to serve on their board Council has to approve it yes and then the council appr it and so is that what our current contract says we do or does the current is the new contract different than the current contract no that's how the current contract is I don't know that we've changed the resolution yet don't but we talked that that's what we wanted to do going forward I don't think it's a resolution that we change I think it's just our library board bylaws that we would uh this is in the contract now item four in the contract I mean it guarantees nible City their choice are your the council's choice so who would serve on and I'm I mean we don't we just need a voice because we need to keep in touch with you and I think you probably want to keep in touch with us and if there's been a way for us to do better I think it's that we can communicate better that's just blanket you know the way things work and I'm not throwing any nibbly representative under the bus that's on your board at all I thank you thank them uh for their service and um I I I really you know I I I do like the idea that this Council decides who should be in the conversation at the board level so you do have to keep in mind that my library board is not a voting board they're just they are an Advisory board so they don't set um they don't make decisions in policy or hiring or anything like that they do have a voice they do they can't you know they can uh bring attention to any issues that we have in the library but they are not a voting board guess it's your city council that has full authority of the
manner there are some utilities that through brag for example heat The Heat Program yeah so if they were to that would in help them to be able to pay their water right but we we haven't identified since last time any sort of help from on a need basis that that somebody could yeah I am not aware of any for these specific utilities and to me that kind of makes sense and we are always flexible we shut people up if they need a little bit extra time I really find myself in fing people you know working with people they give exra days that they just cannot do it and we we have very few shut offs of it and we just want to help them to be responsible and to pay for their bills so how many shut offs a year I say see we really only do two to three a month if that like I said this month we had zero we had everybody who had even paid and we have four people with to pay two of them have since paid and one more is paying at the beginning of next week so zero really and so to you know about 20 5 to 30 a year if that so I am concerned that this will make more people your crystal ball well not not right because I don't know but I'm in your crystal ball what do you think yeah I think in they can catch up as well and they will be you know able to um eventually at least pay that minimum that is due to keeping the shut off list yeah and I'm I'm I'm not asking about being on the path to shut off asking about actual go turn the valve sh off utility but how many actually had their service shut off last year or on average per month is that the two to three yeah okay yeah and and then just to be clear um what do you think do you think that number will go up or go down if the council adopts these changes yes though I do think that it is possible that the can go up but like I said I try I do everything in my to not shut people um and so if there's any new way we need to um Amy is really great at working getting on a payment plan plan so that they can pay a little bit extra each month to get CAU up so I mean I can't see that that in the beginning that that shut off number will have just a little bit um but in theun I think it will um kind of fil out to what we are doing right now to how many people we are sh and if we if we help people understand the importance of staying burn might be P Ball's not any better than anybody else's it might be that people are able to take action sooner yes so far yeah I do feel like that we are just kind of enabling people sometimes giving them so long to get their bill um paid they don't think it's a priority oh I've got plenty of time to pay my city bill they put it off they pay other bills so I feel like we're teaching them some responsibility to stay current on their bills and to get up on their bills so um okay I I do think that is a good thing as our attorney looked at I have a legal question about you know can we when they F when people fall behind on their water bill we're now proposing that we would actually withhold all all city services including trash collection is that am I correct on that um I think the legislator just legislator just passed something about that was in the summary that Talon provided I might have misread it or misunderstood it too um well and I think I know that I think I know the portion you're talking about in proposed amendment um we we have a number of newer developments in Ni uh specifically town homes and dominions where there's one met for building um this amendment to the code would then allow ni City staff to contact waste management to cease only the trash and recycling services where we can't turn off water for an entire building and presid so that's justly City staff to take another utility to so did those did those residents patrons uh I'm not sure how the an HOA or whatever the management company if they actually receive their own bill if there's only one water meter for a whole number of units do they receive an individual water bill do we know or do they do they pay that to their ho yes they um each individual town does receive their own water bill each unit by a individual yes each unit is its own address it has its own water bill that they are only paying a $15.15 base fee that is it so then we have one water meter that is on a separate account that the HOA manages and that is that um account is given however many units are hooked up to that account it is given 5,000 Gall for each one of those units and then once they go above that threshold they are charged for uh water usage okay so thank you yeah so we just have no leverage with these town homes and so we just wanted to include that if they are delinquent they are not paying their bill we can suspend garbage service to try to collect our utilities thank you make a motion to approve 7510 we have a motion we have a second thank you second from Aon the motion is to approve ordinance 25 pen uh Aaron seconded that so further discussion on the motion please seeing none is there opposition to voting seeing none there we will vote so this will be second reading and this will be uh this this will become ordinance if we adopt this ter will you please call the passes thanks time okay next let's go to uh an amendment to the interlocal agreement for dispatch Services uh this is the second time we we continued this from from our last meeting and I think Justin there was some additional information available in terms of it's it's oh yeah yeah sorry yeah you sent some some additional information out yeah sorry second Nathan requested old original agreement and when we got digging into it it really started with just resolution resolution resolution then it went to an actual agreement and this is an amendment to that agreement so I don't know if you have any questions about those but no I actually learned some because of the delay and I mind talking about it in Open Session I mean one of the things that I probably couldn't respond to very well last meeting was well what if we don't pay it right um um this is kind of a funny deal because Logan City is providing this service and they actually don't have to and if Logan City decides not to provide this service it will fall to the county to provide this service and it to me it sounded like what the Logan City Finance director explain through the through many things that request for additional information is you know this this is a little bit of a house of parts and if one city falls out that that could very well trigger you know the event that moves it from Logan City to the county now having said that and looking at their numbers and the increase that they're asking for the service that they provide the the volume of calls that they provide I believe we are getting a very uh Equitable service from Logan City and there would be a top transition perod to move it away from from Logan I think at this point into the county so um I probably have a bigger concern based on recent history that Logan would say we don't want to do this anymore and so I'm I'm inclined to not encourage Logan to say that that's my own opinion yours motion to approve Amendment to the interlock AG for dispat between C and we have a motion second from there uh so the motion is to approve the amendment to the interlocal agreement for dispatch Services made by Norm seconded by Aon I'm I'm changing you guys up a little bit because um I sat in on an LPC meeting remotely uh political what is it legislative policy committee with Fiasco when I came to Parliament forceed yourself and so it caused me to Bone up a little bit um on on um on how how things run and actually people have this I won't get too far off pent here but people have this kind of goofy idea about a friendly Amendment and we've talked about how an amendment once it's made and seconded then it's no longer belongs to the person who made the motion or second it to the body and they can amend it any way they want they don't have to ask for a friendly Amendment now there is something called a friendly Amendment but there's a very very limited period of time that a friendly amendment can be negotiated with the person who made the amendment and that is between the motion occurring and the chair stating the motion after that there's no such thing as a friendly Amendment even if you're trying to be friendly so every I guess by that definition every Amendment it's accept that short period of time when you're help trying to help the the the motion make a better motion but once the chair States the motion and it's after the second then the friendly amendment period stops and we've never had problems with friendly amendments anyway are you Sugg no I'm just everyone looked at me like why isn't he saying what the motion was before there was a second now if you didn't hear the motion say I didn't hear the motion I'm not sure if I can second it and then I can I can State the motion without the second we good on that okay thanks for being no so with that detour I think we have a motion in a second to adopt the interlocal agreement is there is there an objection to V same done CHL let's call the RO yes in favor fav I see that as for in favor and none opposed motion passes thank you Council uh next we have uh welcome Mayor Miller um we we appreciate you being here and we'll let you guys decide how to to divide this up uh we had a workshop before on the services and the contract and fee for those services that DBL residents receive for the logen library dis strike that Justin do you have anything to add and how about if we give Justin a chance and Stephanie we'll welcome you I'm just here to so the only addition to what was brought up at the the workshop was an email from s um uh Emily or the librarian about the list that was I was trying to do some research on that dig that out unfortunately Amy is on vacation in Hawaii I was able to find an old list uh wasn't quite what I thought uh we were looking for what what you were asking for so so really I wasn't able to verify any of that or be able to really audit any of that stuff um so I don't really have much more to talk about or propose okay thanks and Emily we appreciate you being here we appreciate the service you've provided for irum and for nibble and Wellsville all these years thank you very much um we can just go to council questions if you prefer or we'll let okay Council I'll turn it to you so it's up for vote tonight if you're so inclined and and timeliness is important here since we have the end of the fiscal year and you guys need to write a budget so any questions for for each other um it is it is the first reading on this yep absolutely so resolutions get two readings if you desire um it'd be good to it would help me if if you if you let me know in a in a motion as to whether this is for first reading because we'll probably have the discussion differently um if it's first reading versus second actually mayor sorry I did forget the actually the one thing if I could that I was going to mention that was additional information and you correct me if I'm wrong but I believe H the ham city council did pass this resolution so hm has passed the resolution three three weeks ago same same time we had correct take a minute and let you know it's wonderful to have your C library we um enjoy having them they we have a lot of them 91 that are active users right now accounts and you know we like to be able to reach out and offer that to you if you are interested in that if you're not that's fine but that's what we're doing is just reaching out to say you know do you do you want to be in a contract with us um and if not maybe there's another way you want to go about it because I've heard something about um you having the citizen pay the fees and then come and get funded that's fine with us too or if you want them to just be on their own that's fine so there really is nothing but just us offering this service if if it's something that you feel you want to do yeah Stephanie I probably um we we talked about that you know Emily and with with Wellsville and Stephanie I kind of feel oblig ated to bring alternatives to the council so that's one of the Alternatives we discussed in hirum at the meeting was um well let me let me talk about what what problem we were trying to Sol I I thought this other alternative Sol so we've Emily you tell us it's a four person month effort no it's a one person four month effort okay I think yeah one person for four months four person month something okay um to colate and count and keep track of who the patrons of the library are under the old contract because nibbly city was build per household that uses the library yes and so the new the proposed contract adopted by the hon council is that we would do away with that accounting anyway and we go to a per household payment in thebly regardless of whether that household uses the library or not but at a reduced rate than the user rate that was previously charged so so that's that's one of the things we were trying to avoid is that accounting that owner as accounting correct about going to the per household rate instead of per user rate can I just say really quick that doesn't mean that we would not go through accounts and make sure that they still live in niply or still are you know active users or anything like that we would we still go through accounts annually that's you know just to make it so that you're not paying for someone who used to live in nibbly but now is pay you know that make sense that you're not paying for somebody who's moved outside of nippley so so to follow up so you said we have 900 active users so 900 people have checked out a book or used their Library services within the last couple months and yes yeah but we're but we're we're not going to keep track of that anymore right we're not keeping track of like the major active users we're not going to keep users in our library don't actually live in that makes sense we're not just keeping dead accounts yeah so I may to me what makes sense is they'll still want to do the accounting because on their end for their purposes but it won't be tied to nibbly City's Bill nib City's bill will just be here's the number of houses houses here's what you owe people outside of nii then they need to do their own accounting for that so that's to continue that alternative of something like to re to alleviate the library of having to count active users under the old system the current system uh and then send ibly a bill for that it it means that all you have to do at the library is verify residency and if they're a resident of hyam then they use library and if they're not a resident of Hyrum uh say it's 70 it's you just ask for $75 now I don't want to abandon Library patrons that live in nibi and so the fix for that is the library user then we nibbly City the council will decide uh would reimburse the p that paid for the nonresident access to the library go directly from Hyrum to nib city offices and say I I want here here's my receipt and so I'm requesting reimbursement so we're still paying on a per user basis but we relieve you of the accounting we would do the accounting but it's not that hard because they show up with the receipt and and we'd have to work out how quickly that reimbursement could be made I mean I think for it to work it has to be made in real time um it's like show me the receipt we'll write you a check I have to talk to Amy about this yeah have to double check yeah but anyway um that was discussed uh I brought it up because I thought it might be a way to fix the the four person accounting problem and still give people that live in nibi essentially not essentially it's free access to the library it's actually access paid for out of the general fund by all newly citizens now the problem with that and I reached out to some Library patrons and they said it's it's fine but it's just another thing you know it's it's they're probably going they often going to the library because they have kids that enjoy the library and it's great get the kids out of the house go to the library and they just want to go home they don't want to go to newly offices and ask for money for using the library so it's an inconvenience for sure and Emily you pointed that out when we were discussing that um I I will admit that there are variants on that and perhaps the council would want to yeah so I guess it was a Freudian slip maybe the council would want to offer the $75 reimbursement to a nii resident regardless of which Library they chose to patronize so for example the Logan Library if they felt they got enough out of the Logan Library card to chip I think it's 165 a year uh for a nonresident household Logan Library card so 65 minus 165 - 75 that'd be the the part they would have to contribute from their their own personal money to use Logan Library anyway it's an alternative now you mentioned that one of the reasons we want to go to a per household instead of per user agreement is to simplified accounting but then I I read the proposed agreement item 11 says hirum shall prepare and maintain records suitable for nibi to tell us who the nibbly patrons are okay how is that different then um it's a simple report that we can run that that I I did that today when he asked me for a ni list and I and I had my staff member run a ni report and we emailed it off to her those are that's a raw report without going through every single account it's a raw report of who is a dly resident so it's it's I mean to me those sound like the same thing it's just the one we're the bill and one word that doesn't affect the bill I mean it's still a report of it's still a report but it's not a report thoroughly gone through to make sure that we're billing you the accurate number of um active PID for users so it be less labor intensive and less accurate than the report we receive if you just asked for a report I could run one right now but that report won't tell us it won't it won't be um it won't be as accurate as the one that we go through starting in January because I I mean I I'm not I'm not being critical of the agreement it it doesn't really say how accurate it says it'll serve the purposes of both parties and so do we get to tell you what serves our purposes probably not okay that's on the city council not me I just check on okay I'll be quiet for a while thanks yeah can I have a quick clarifying question I was curious about it I never sh I got clear Direction on when when it's 900 patrons is that like per active house but there was discussion about the E sorry liby as I was called so is that worst case 450 houses that have both a library and a Libby or how do that split and what is I would say it's probably 9010 that have an extra account for livyes if there an active liy user yes so you're saying 90% check normal yes and in and in the past agreement nible City would be charged for the book check your book out and it would also be charged for the liby account yes they're only charged for the card not the liby account they're charged for the account the physical card that they have so when you have a liby account you have to have a physical card because it's attached it's it's if you have a household account the STA can come in and get an additional card so an additional account for living purposes only was newly charged an additional was that another user yes that's another user yes okay so the so one house could have multiple user charges if they have a young family they would have two if they have you know adult children living with them and they can come in and get their own library card then it would be more than that like if two people people two extra people came in and got a card they' be charged four cards total okay the old system that's the old system yes theoretically you know if you had a few older children you would pay for four accounts or nibble City would be paying irum the 35 it was 25 now what was the old one uh the old one was 44 44 so it would have paid you know theoretically four 44 charges for that one house where you know in this new system every house is charged less money but but the reason that was important to me to try to understand try to figure out is is it's you know the reason behind and trying to be more uh Fair Equitable about how much hon pays versus how much nibbly pays to try to understand where that was and so if that makes sense that's why that number I feel is important but if we're going the New Direction uh on either of the ones that really have been talked about like it it becomes a move Point like it doesn't it doesn't matter can you share with them the price that City citizens um as of right now it's approximately $199 per active user and Nibley Wellsville and then the county all pay $44 a year per AC for active account yeah yeah because each account of 00 it could represent a whole right yeah yeah and I mean that's that's very good information to have I can see why a citizen Council would say well that's not fair and that's you know that's difference between owning and renting part of that right I mean um you're building and buying and owning an the library that is well you know we because of the amount of users we have doubled the story times um there's a lot more coming to activities we've had to hire more heal and so that's where some of this cost is coming into but honestly it's up to you what you want to do we're just willing to let you use the library if you if you would like to but if it's not something you want to go with no offense we're good so you just have to decide what's best if there's any other questions that we can answer for you we're happy to yeah yeah so looking over your proposed budget and expenses what do you feel like your biggest paino is on your finances is it like you don't have enough materials or is it you don't have enough staff to cover all the needs or so right now it's um it's the cost for both um and the ebooks and audio books everything has increased in price you know last year a and this year it's $32 and with ebooks and E audio books which is where we see the trends going more um you're you're looking at $75 for a 12 month usage of one um ebook or and it can it can Skyrocket from there um I personally refuse to purchase ones that are over $100 because I cannot afford it in my budget um last month I purchased I think 10 ebooks and E audio books combined and I spent almost $1,000 so the cost of everything is expensive now that is not just that's publisher Publishers were trying to play the game but um so but we have to play their game and that's was it cost so that's where the need is comeing from as well in the proposed agreement item four it says that nle City will have a member of the board on the library if you're contracted with right and that it will be a choice made by ni City yes for that board member what it says now item item four can we we agree what are we doing now for the board member from the so right here this is the way I was traed and and how I've always known how to do the library board that typically I pick an active user of the library because I want somebody who uses the library knows the library and knows like our programs and stuff so I'll kind of jot down a couple names I take it to my library board and they will give me additional names or you know they'll agree with my my decision or whatever and then our city council member will reach out to that individual and extend them an invitation to serve on their board Council has to approve it yes and then the council appr it and so is that what our current contract says we do or does the current is the new contract different than the current contract no that's how the current contract is I don't know that we've changed the resolution yet don't but we talked that that's what we wanted to do going forward I don't think it's a resolution that we change I think it's just our library board bylaws that we would uh this is in the contract now item four in the contract I mean it guarantees nible City their choice are your the council's choice so who would serve on and I'm I mean we don't we just need a voice because we need to keep in touch with you and I think you probably want to keep in touch with us and if there's been a way for us to do better I think it's that we can communicate better that's just blanket you know the way things work and I'm not throwing any nibbly representative under the bus that's on your board at all I thank you thank them uh for their service and um I I I really you know I I I do like the idea that this Council decides who should be in the conversation at the board level so you do have to keep in mind that my library board is not a voting board they're just they are an Advisory board so they don't set um they don't make decisions in policy or hiring or anything like that they do have a voice they do they can't you know they can uh bring attention to any issues that we have in the library but they are not a voting board guess it's your city council that has full authority of the
elsee Gap there like said understand what has up but I'm just curious the original proposal was 30 and it's 25 increase over the next five years I don't know if that is appeasing the Gap I guess I'm just a second just to be round that on to be at least apples apples in the old system if my numbers are correct and you can help me if I'm wrong but uh the dollar per active account would be $199 in h and would have been 40 4 ni with the new system if you took the number of residents houses and divided that by the money that from their general fund that would be about $103 per house so if you want to go Apples to Apples now the bar is $13 for a hm house and $25 for a nibbly house increasing to $30 right that doesn't answer your problem or Gap I'm just being clear that that is now the Gap from 25 to 100 yeah the Gap a little that's what that's basically what that question yeah I guess the second question is um reading all this and looking at the P right this for our budget impacts essentially over the next five years would double the amount current Bud for the libr yeah because now we're charging just all households in mid not now that's the proposal The Proposal yeah so that would be if I may the about 3 and a half% growth in the number of houses plus the dollar R that's how those numbers were projected so if we have more houses might be more than that we have less houses yes agement but did not pick up when we give a count of houses or how we provide that information I didn't see that in any agreement yeah I think that's a great if nothing just agreed upon is that like a set time and and to be honest uh I had the same question for the 911 fee I reached out to to Mr Anderson l City like and he's my my direct question I hope this doesn't open a can of worms but how is this number that you Bill us figured out now they we decided with with it nibbly for what we thought the easiest thing would be to do is just use the number of utility counts to have a sewer connection because everybody every house townhouse everything has a is charged a sewer connection so we went that route Logan has a a GIS they can pull their stuff off of so I'd like to go learn what that is but I'm getting rambly now but his they were talking about maybe doing it four times a year um because they're we pay 911 monthly yeah uh where this is only an annual thing so I don't know if you just pick a date I don't know if you do it twice a year and average it like but I think that'd be a great point to like settle on for sure this is what we're going to do that's a fair point fair question yeah so that that's that to H out a couple things I think that is great I used it this is a different change it's essentially more of a tax to Citizens than by user overall but it is a lower it's defitely for sure yeah know like you said it's a renter versus and and we do have we did have citizens that came when we were having our truth and Taxation yeah and this is what started this and they said and and we still have a council member that still he thinks it should be exactly the same as what the citizens pay yeah but and just historically like feel we just want it to be an yeah that's why so that was 18 years ago just for everybody um and we did talk in The Proposal that I gave to H City we talked about how we would come up to the numbers um or we have not discussed like when I'm in a call and say what are your numbers or you know whatever I my proposal is to build the first of the new fiscal year so starting with July 1st and call and ask what what your household number based on and my example is based on sewer hookup because that's what I talked to I believe it was a um she said that's the most accurate way to get the in the city in your city well was different and and Hy was different so yeah that's why I'm interested in what Logan does and how they're using their GIS to do that I'll I'll investigate that it may oh I don't know may not so so the agreement does say just on six the niyum um annual fee shall be determined not later than the 1 of March of Any Given year so we we may not know how to do the math but we know right so they would call up on March 1st how many houses you got we'd figure it out and send the bill and we would pay the bill July one so if if we want to my my initial thought was that we would change the billing cycle so we would change the bill not the bilding cycle but the billing dates so my thought is we would charge July 1st but if the resolution says March we would just charge in March no yeah the resolution I don't think we have to pay by the 31st of July right oh okay right but we have to have the number by the first of mon perfect so you can build a budget we can build a budget it sounds like you've got some things to think about uh we're gonna wait and see what the motion is the council may be ready to move on this and the council may not it's been a great discussion thank you for coming thank you for sharing that information Council thank you for and now we'll see what the council wants to do based on a motion if you're ready for a vote and we can continue discussing after the Moe thought he's got yeah I I'll make a motion to approve for first reading okay no I'll second okay we have a motion from Nathan and a second from Norm to approve for first raing so what that means in our parli is that we will try to say what we're going to do between now and the second reading if there's more information to be provided Nathan you mentioned maybe uh some guidelines on and maybe Justin answered it maybe maybe not I don't know but would you like what would you like to see between now and then yeah so um open to discussion uh it feels like we just need to decide if we would like for future councils and City staff Etc and even to have a better understanding of how houses are count that would be one suggestion that staff work on and propose I know har adopted this so they may have to consider that as well um I think it'd be good to have in there I like lots of things and legal documents but if it's an agreement and we just figure it out each year that's right but I think that would be the thing I suggest we don't go to uh what do you call it when two houses pass two different versions of bills um there's a word for that let's not send I I suggest we not this back Council I think that I hope we could between staffs we can say and you know and say yeah here's how we're going to count the houses that sound right you okay with that
elsee Gap there like said understand what has up but I'm just curious the original proposal was 30 and it's 25 increase over the next five years I don't know if that is appeasing the Gap I guess I'm just a second just to be round that on to be at least apples apples in the old system if my numbers are correct and you can help me if I'm wrong but uh the dollar per active account would be $199 in h and would have been 40 4 ni with the new system if you took the number of residents houses and divided that by the money that from their general fund that would be about $103 per house so if you want to go Apples to Apples now the bar is $13 for a hm house and $25 for a nibbly house increasing to $30 right that doesn't answer your problem or Gap I'm just being clear that that is now the Gap from 25 to 100 yeah the Gap a little that's what that's basically what that question yeah I guess the second question is um reading all this and looking at the P right this for our budget impacts essentially over the next five years would double the amount current Bud for the libr yeah because now we're charging just all households in mid not now that's the proposal The Proposal yeah so that would be if I may the about 3 and a half% growth in the number of houses plus the dollar R that's how those numbers were projected so if we have more houses might be more than that we have less houses yes agement but did not pick up when we give a count of houses or how we provide that information I didn't see that in any agreement yeah I think that's a great if nothing just agreed upon is that like a set time and and to be honest uh I had the same question for the 911 fee I reached out to to Mr Anderson l City like and he's my my direct question I hope this doesn't open a can of worms but how is this number that you Bill us figured out now they we decided with with it nibbly for what we thought the easiest thing would be to do is just use the number of utility counts to have a sewer connection because everybody every house townhouse everything has a is charged a sewer connection so we went that route Logan has a a GIS they can pull their stuff off of so I'd like to go learn what that is but I'm getting rambly now but his they were talking about maybe doing it four times a year um because they're we pay 911 monthly yeah uh where this is only an annual thing so I don't know if you just pick a date I don't know if you do it twice a year and average it like but I think that'd be a great point to like settle on for sure this is what we're going to do that's a fair point fair question yeah so that that's that to H out a couple things I think that is great I used it this is a different change it's essentially more of a tax to Citizens than by user overall but it is a lower it's defitely for sure yeah know like you said it's a renter versus and and we do have we did have citizens that came when we were having our truth and Taxation yeah and this is what started this and they said and and we still have a council member that still he thinks it should be exactly the same as what the citizens pay yeah but and just historically like feel we just want it to be an yeah that's why so that was 18 years ago just for everybody um and we did talk in The Proposal that I gave to H City we talked about how we would come up to the numbers um or we have not discussed like when I'm in a call and say what are your numbers or you know whatever I my proposal is to build the first of the new fiscal year so starting with July 1st and call and ask what what your household number based on and my example is based on sewer hookup because that's what I talked to I believe it was a um she said that's the most accurate way to get the in the city in your city well was different and and Hy was different so yeah that's why I'm interested in what Logan does and how they're using their GIS to do that I'll I'll investigate that it may oh I don't know may not so so the agreement does say just on six the niyum um annual fee shall be determined not later than the 1 of March of Any Given year so we we may not know how to do the math but we know right so they would call up on March 1st how many houses you got we'd figure it out and send the bill and we would pay the bill July one so if if we want to my my initial thought was that we would change the billing cycle so we would change the bill not the bilding cycle but the billing dates so my thought is we would charge July 1st but if the resolution says March we would just charge in March no yeah the resolution I don't think we have to pay by the 31st of July right oh okay right but we have to have the number by the first of mon perfect so you can build a budget we can build a budget it sounds like you've got some things to think about uh we're gonna wait and see what the motion is the council may be ready to move on this and the council may not it's been a great discussion thank you for coming thank you for sharing that information Council thank you for and now we'll see what the council wants to do based on a motion if you're ready for a vote and we can continue discussing after the Moe thought he's got yeah I I'll make a motion to approve for first reading okay no I'll second okay we have a motion from Nathan and a second from Norm to approve for first raing so what that means in our parli is that we will try to say what we're going to do between now and the second reading if there's more information to be provided Nathan you mentioned maybe uh some guidelines on and maybe Justin answered it maybe maybe not I don't know but would you like what would you like to see between now and then yeah so um open to discussion uh it feels like we just need to decide if we would like for future councils and City staff Etc and even to have a better understanding of how houses are count that would be one suggestion that staff work on and propose I know har adopted this so they may have to consider that as well um I think it'd be good to have in there I like lots of things and legal documents but if it's an agreement and we just figure it out each year that's right but I think that would be the thing I suggest we don't go to uh what do you call it when two houses pass two different versions of bills um there's a word for that let's not send I I suggest we not this back Council I think that I hope we could between staffs we can say and you know and say yeah here's how we're going to count the houses that sound right you okay with that
Justin they did decide to do sewer hookups because it's a more accurate account they did at first initially gave me water hookups um and then I think it's mayor B said I have two water hookups I'm not paying twice so they said that sewer hookups because um everyone in Wellsville now on everyone in the city limits are the sewer that is more accurate that's what they are going but you resolv that without it being part of the contract we did I mean if we're comfortable counil saying just figure now yeah the motion is for first reading so let's let's stay on that idea that we're going to bring this back and we're just deciding what further information you would like for second so as long as that's the motion that's probably how we'll keep proceeding with the discussion you could make it differ you yes so in the agreement the contract that we have up me I didn't read to um it's it doesn't give specifics about it doesn't give any specifics about the report that we'll get from hiring in terms of like people from check just for informational purposes so we many people are considered AC check I think that's a great question it's a short paragraph It's section 11 it's hyam ham shall provide and maintain such records as are deemed necessary to advise both part parties regarding the use of the library by ni's residents these records shall be made available to ni's officials at such reasonable intervals as agreed to by the parties so maybe we could just put in a date at the same time that we give them the number of households from nibbly we also get a report back about open p how many people check out books from mid or maybe July 31st with just a dat yeah and we might do that by staff agreement rather than sending it than than putting it in the contracts for this time yeah I mean it it it says Reas reasonable intervals as agreed to by the parties so usually when I read reasonable in a contract that means a judge will decide if it goes that far CU who what's reasonable but it it's not it's not a bad resolution it's fine it's it's how it should be written but uh we we could maybe codify that in a future contract again it's just going to be hard to have a conference I think that's the word the conference call to get a different version passed by H at this point yeah that's right yeah I know our our family used the H Library lot iate that with little kids we use it a lot now way online and the online it's not a surprise how many is available on even the coun man's wife wanted to get libr part in the city north but you offer just as much online as they yeah which part of the consortion yeah yeah so appreciate that and I think our opportunity as a city is to provide services that we can't on our own by partner and speaking to that we having that discussion we definely need to do a better job of educating Ely need to do that and appreciate the numbers that's something we've been looking for for you know I wanted that some you know do some breakdowns for we sell if this was worth it like we in our last meeting you know you 30 people using the library like it's for charging 20 a 2300 households a feed for 30 people to use something that doesn't make good sense but I'm glad to see these numbers and appreciate that I just need to do some more analysis yeah and um wild City certainly provide services to people that they cannot provide easily for themselves and there's economy of scale and everything else I think that our residents should be aware of what it costs to provide those services and so you know that the legislative session spend time talking about Road Services Road fees Road usage fees you know and it's it's I I do believe people that use the services should be the ones that pay for the services and they should be very aware of what those Services cost to provide to them so however this I I think we could uh do some Outreach to our citizens we we might flood your doors with you know what everybody's paying to use the library you better get down there and use it you okay with that y all right will our fees go up one year no it's good for according to this contract it can be changed by either party but this is a 5day contract it you can you can get out of it six months prior to right I think we're one month now okay if I on those lines just quick math average house pays it's going to pay if I'm do my math right on fly here about $4 to $500 in property tax $25 of that it's going to be about 5% yeah so average house about 5% go yeah and we have other sources of revenue besides property tax right that's trying to give you a feel for the house okay this one more question for so in regards to this it sounds like you could very easily can you tolerate us taking another run at this it's great we just wanted to be here to you it's been and it will continue to be a great relationship between our our our sister cities and so thank you for coming and thank you for all you do for us and we're glad to be your neighbor uh shall we vote the motion is uh to pass this for first reading and bring it back with uh time to think about it and maybe some additional details on how to uh understand the number of house number of houses uh those in favor of adopting for first reading please say I I are there any opposed a motion passes thank you knew okay next this is resolution 2510 this is uh all right this is appointing members to the nibbly Morgan Farm board of directors uh it's the first time you've seen it justtin yes sir thank you we had a little bit of brief discussion last meeting about Morgan farm and council member Aaron man has done a wonderful job serving on that board for a shorter short period of time due to major life event is elected to come off that board and so there needed to be a replacement uh there was some discussion with the board about how to do that they had some ideas that they wanted to do with maybe getting someone that was uh professional in the equestrian world and grant writing if I remember right help me out here if I'm saying this wrong and potentially maybe even adding a board member from to try to get a County Council kind of uh count County representative on the board and so as mayor and I discussed that looked at that talked about that looked at the bylaws there was some question last meeting about what the bylaws actually said we reread the bylaws and we we feel that right now the the strict interpretation of the bylaws would be that there we need to replace council member man with a member on the Morgan Farm board with someone from this Council and then the question needs to be separated and worked on in the bylaws before it comes back to add a board member to that account board of directors if that makes sense so the action before you tonight is to uh decide which one of you all would like to replace Aaron on that board and make it so so what we're talking about replacement could be modif the bylaws or we can't do that tonight yeah that's a great question you might if I give you my interpretation all right so article nine says the board of the Morgan Farm can change the bylaws uh for the nonprofit organization the bylaws article three say the city council shall choose the board members of the Morgan Farm two of which will there will be five and two of which will come from the new city council and three at large so I believe that's a conflict and when I find conflicts I tend to go with the more conservative uh view of things and so in in my estimation my opinion since the bylaws specifically say the nle city council shall choose the members of the board I think that's what we have to go with tonight and as Justin said I think we should um it it's probably going to take two things right because mly city council cannot change the bylaws the board changes the bylaws but the bylaws say the council chooses the board so it's probably going to take a concerted effort for the board to um change the bylaws with the city council's consent uh to resolve that conflict if if if the if it needs be changed so if if the board wants to expand the number the number of the board I think the city council has to specifically give up uh what the bylaws grant them and that is to teach the board sorry yeah sorry maybe I should have mentioned this prayer I did speak with uh Roxy and explained all of that and she explained why they were hoping to add with this um forget her name sorry but but but it was grant writing and one thing I offered was well potentially we could still we budget money every year and City budget for grant writing we also budget for Farm we could take some of that grant writing put in farm budget and just pay somebody to work on those grants for Morgan Morgan Farm as opposed to put them as an option and and she was okay with that and she understood the procedural steps that needed to happen to make all that work out so so it be clear this this person will write grants for free if they're on the board they're not on the board we right that that's what was expressed and so it was just one solution to keep that person engaged uh and and she it's not she didn't say yes let's do that she said that's an idea but it's okay so change to the B the council can so we have advertised a resolution changing Aon out and another board member in and the way Joel yellow our attorney has so no the way he's explained things to me is once you advertise that you're going to do something like change membership for example we didn't talk about this specific case you're going to change uh membership on the board you can do whatever you want to change membership of the board that's my interpretation of how Joel has Joel yellow horse has coached me on things in the past I said yeah but we didn't advertise that we were going to do that he said yeah but you you advertised you're going to mess around with this so you can mess around with it however the council wants to that's in na I disagree okay that's article 10 it says amendments to the bylaw specifically says that it requires a three4 majority of the board make changes that very clear so any changes that the board wants to make to their bylaws they have the ability to do we just need to get rid of the thing the point to two members to section I thought we got so that would be my proposal that we put something in for eron's Place uh because we have to or we send this back to the board and say change your own B even though it specifically says the city council will choose members of the board because they will choose two members all the board has to do is go back and have a three4 majority say that they don't want the city council picking two members anymore and they can just take it on board um I'm gonna have to pull that up article 36 yeah I'm my head off it's open at one point want unless we see like super necessary reason for the city council to be involved in the Affairs of this 501c3 so we let them govern themselves I have a comment there but I have to read no that's why I don't why is the first section officers talks about being temporary talks about the mayor and the secet that was the Articles now be says changes to those bylaws have to be made by the board not us we do not Govern theair of 50123 you do do with your fellow we can't make Chang item number in the Box on yeah I got the Articles can you read I think the bylaws are in the same keep yeah I just Clos yeah so article 10 11 11 oh nine n nine article N9 says amendments to the bylaws any amendments to the bylaws shall be proposed by a board member approved by a 34 majority of the board yeah I agree we have no authority to change their bylaws I and and then help me understand this part okay article three the the number of board members on the board will be five and will be chosen by the governing body of the city the city council the city council shall choose two members of the board from the city council and three at large members now to me that doesn't say the city council chooses the city council representation that says the city council chooses all five members of the board so I think there's so there's two things that have to happen happen here the city council has the authority to choose the members of the board right and the board has the authority to change the bylaws but you're saying their authority to change the bylaws will also remove the city council's authority to choose the board they could okay and I I recommend that because if they want more than five we as a city council can't do that change because we are limited to five so they need to go back and change their bylaws if they want to get rid of our ability they can I see your point and then here's what I think is perhaps a pitfall with that because For Better or Worse um the city council holds the ultimate Authority about what happens to that farm and if the only Rec course that the city council has if they feel like which is not the case but I'm I have to think of the worst case if they feel like the farm has gone off the rails the only thing city council can do is shut it down and say you can't use city property part terminate the lease and That's pretty drastic and I would hate even in a worst case scenario ever get to that point so what right that that that expression mean question yeah yeah Council can do what the council wants to do we need to appoint someone tonight to take place we'll table this and let them see if they Chang the when the next time board me it's on hold until we decide your I mean I see ER I and if you agree then just just uh vote against the resolution and tell the board do whatever they want yeah council me you are literally giving away the form which is a pretty heav swing it's a nuclear option and we just talk about the importance having someone on the library so that we're in the discussion at least you know in a advisory role and now we're giving away no we're giving away the operation of the farm not not the though up to you I still have the nuclear op that's how we want to do it I'll do it or with I'll I'll keep that option in my pocket all right I'll make a motion to approve resolution 2510 and put myself in the blank spot for first reading so we can move to discussion and we have a second so the motion is to approve uh 2510 for first reading which would replace Aaron on the floor with Nathan and why would you want for stream I just want to just start discussion in case you guys want toit
Justin they did decide to do sewer hookups because it's a more accurate account they did at first initially gave me water hookups um and then I think it's mayor B said I have two water hookups I'm not paying twice so they said that sewer hookups because um everyone in Wellsville now on everyone in the city limits are the sewer that is more accurate that's what they are going but you resolv that without it being part of the contract we did I mean if we're comfortable counil saying just figure now yeah the motion is for first reading so let's let's stay on that idea that we're going to bring this back and we're just deciding what further information you would like for second so as long as that's the motion that's probably how we'll keep proceeding with the discussion you could make it differ you yes so in the agreement the contract that we have up me I didn't read to um it's it doesn't give specifics about it doesn't give any specifics about the report that we'll get from hiring in terms of like people from check just for informational purposes so we many people are considered AC check I think that's a great question it's a short paragraph It's section 11 it's hyam ham shall provide and maintain such records as are deemed necessary to advise both part parties regarding the use of the library by ni's residents these records shall be made available to ni's officials at such reasonable intervals as agreed to by the parties so maybe we could just put in a date at the same time that we give them the number of households from nibbly we also get a report back about open p how many people check out books from mid or maybe July 31st with just a dat yeah and we might do that by staff agreement rather than sending it than than putting it in the contracts for this time yeah I mean it it it says Reas reasonable intervals as agreed to by the parties so usually when I read reasonable in a contract that means a judge will decide if it goes that far CU who what's reasonable but it it's not it's not a bad resolution it's fine it's it's how it should be written but uh we we could maybe codify that in a future contract again it's just going to be hard to have a conference I think that's the word the conference call to get a different version passed by H at this point yeah that's right yeah I know our our family used the H Library lot iate that with little kids we use it a lot now way online and the online it's not a surprise how many is available on even the coun man's wife wanted to get libr part in the city north but you offer just as much online as they yeah which part of the consortion yeah yeah so appreciate that and I think our opportunity as a city is to provide services that we can't on our own by partner and speaking to that we having that discussion we definely need to do a better job of educating Ely need to do that and appreciate the numbers that's something we've been looking for for you know I wanted that some you know do some breakdowns for we sell if this was worth it like we in our last meeting you know you 30 people using the library like it's for charging 20 a 2300 households a feed for 30 people to use something that doesn't make good sense but I'm glad to see these numbers and appreciate that I just need to do some more analysis yeah and um wild City certainly provide services to people that they cannot provide easily for themselves and there's economy of scale and everything else I think that our residents should be aware of what it costs to provide those services and so you know that the legislative session spend time talking about Road Services Road fees Road usage fees you know and it's it's I I do believe people that use the services should be the ones that pay for the services and they should be very aware of what those Services cost to provide to them so however this I I think we could uh do some Outreach to our citizens we we might flood your doors with you know what everybody's paying to use the library you better get down there and use it you okay with that y all right will our fees go up one year no it's good for according to this contract it can be changed by either party but this is a 5day contract it you can you can get out of it six months prior to right I think we're one month now okay if I on those lines just quick math average house pays it's going to pay if I'm do my math right on fly here about $4 to $500 in property tax $25 of that it's going to be about 5% yeah so average house about 5% go yeah and we have other sources of revenue besides property tax right that's trying to give you a feel for the house okay this one more question for so in regards to this it sounds like you could very easily can you tolerate us taking another run at this it's great we just wanted to be here to you it's been and it will continue to be a great relationship between our our our sister cities and so thank you for coming and thank you for all you do for us and we're glad to be your neighbor uh shall we vote the motion is uh to pass this for first reading and bring it back with uh time to think about it and maybe some additional details on how to uh understand the number of house number of houses uh those in favor of adopting for first reading please say I I are there any opposed a motion passes thank you knew okay next this is resolution 2510 this is uh all right this is appointing members to the nibbly Morgan Farm board of directors uh it's the first time you've seen it justtin yes sir thank you we had a little bit of brief discussion last meeting about Morgan farm and council member Aaron man has done a wonderful job serving on that board for a shorter short period of time due to major life event is elected to come off that board and so there needed to be a replacement uh there was some discussion with the board about how to do that they had some ideas that they wanted to do with maybe getting someone that was uh professional in the equestrian world and grant writing if I remember right help me out here if I'm saying this wrong and potentially maybe even adding a board member from to try to get a County Council kind of uh count County representative on the board and so as mayor and I discussed that looked at that talked about that looked at the bylaws there was some question last meeting about what the bylaws actually said we reread the bylaws and we we feel that right now the the strict interpretation of the bylaws would be that there we need to replace council member man with a member on the Morgan Farm board with someone from this Council and then the question needs to be separated and worked on in the bylaws before it comes back to add a board member to that account board of directors if that makes sense so the action before you tonight is to uh decide which one of you all would like to replace Aaron on that board and make it so so what we're talking about replacement could be modif the bylaws or we can't do that tonight yeah that's a great question you might if I give you my interpretation all right so article nine says the board of the Morgan Farm can change the bylaws uh for the nonprofit organization the bylaws article three say the city council shall choose the board members of the Morgan Farm two of which will there will be five and two of which will come from the new city council and three at large so I believe that's a conflict and when I find conflicts I tend to go with the more conservative uh view of things and so in in my estimation my opinion since the bylaws specifically say the nle city council shall choose the members of the board I think that's what we have to go with tonight and as Justin said I think we should um it it's probably going to take two things right because mly city council cannot change the bylaws the board changes the bylaws but the bylaws say the council chooses the board so it's probably going to take a concerted effort for the board to um change the bylaws with the city council's consent uh to resolve that conflict if if if the if it needs be changed so if if the board wants to expand the number the number of the board I think the city council has to specifically give up uh what the bylaws grant them and that is to teach the board sorry yeah sorry maybe I should have mentioned this prayer I did speak with uh Roxy and explained all of that and she explained why they were hoping to add with this um forget her name sorry but but but it was grant writing and one thing I offered was well potentially we could still we budget money every year and City budget for grant writing we also budget for Farm we could take some of that grant writing put in farm budget and just pay somebody to work on those grants for Morgan Morgan Farm as opposed to put them as an option and and she was okay with that and she understood the procedural steps that needed to happen to make all that work out so so it be clear this this person will write grants for free if they're on the board they're not on the board we right that that's what was expressed and so it was just one solution to keep that person engaged uh and and she it's not she didn't say yes let's do that she said that's an idea but it's okay so change to the B the council can so we have advertised a resolution changing Aon out and another board member in and the way Joel yellow our attorney has so no the way he's explained things to me is once you advertise that you're going to do something like change membership for example we didn't talk about this specific case you're going to change uh membership on the board you can do whatever you want to change membership of the board that's my interpretation of how Joel has Joel yellow horse has coached me on things in the past I said yeah but we didn't advertise that we were going to do that he said yeah but you you advertised you're going to mess around with this so you can mess around with it however the council wants to that's in na I disagree okay that's article 10 it says amendments to the bylaw specifically says that it requires a three4 majority of the board make changes that very clear so any changes that the board wants to make to their bylaws they have the ability to do we just need to get rid of the thing the point to two members to section I thought we got so that would be my proposal that we put something in for eron's Place uh because we have to or we send this back to the board and say change your own B even though it specifically says the city council will choose members of the board because they will choose two members all the board has to do is go back and have a three4 majority say that they don't want the city council picking two members anymore and they can just take it on board um I'm gonna have to pull that up article 36 yeah I'm my head off it's open at one point want unless we see like super necessary reason for the city council to be involved in the Affairs of this 501c3 so we let them govern themselves I have a comment there but I have to read no that's why I don't why is the first section officers talks about being temporary talks about the mayor and the secet that was the Articles now be says changes to those bylaws have to be made by the board not us we do not Govern theair of 50123 you do do with your fellow we can't make Chang item number in the Box on yeah I got the Articles can you read I think the bylaws are in the same keep yeah I just Clos yeah so article 10 11 11 oh nine n nine article N9 says amendments to the bylaws any amendments to the bylaws shall be proposed by a board member approved by a 34 majority of the board yeah I agree we have no authority to change their bylaws I and and then help me understand this part okay article three the the number of board members on the board will be five and will be chosen by the governing body of the city the city council the city council shall choose two members of the board from the city council and three at large members now to me that doesn't say the city council chooses the city council representation that says the city council chooses all five members of the board so I think there's so there's two things that have to happen happen here the city council has the authority to choose the members of the board right and the board has the authority to change the bylaws but you're saying their authority to change the bylaws will also remove the city council's authority to choose the board they could okay and I I recommend that because if they want more than five we as a city council can't do that change because we are limited to five so they need to go back and change their bylaws if they want to get rid of our ability they can I see your point and then here's what I think is perhaps a pitfall with that because For Better or Worse um the city council holds the ultimate Authority about what happens to that farm and if the only Rec course that the city council has if they feel like which is not the case but I'm I have to think of the worst case if they feel like the farm has gone off the rails the only thing city council can do is shut it down and say you can't use city property part terminate the lease and That's pretty drastic and I would hate even in a worst case scenario ever get to that point so what right that that that expression mean question yeah yeah Council can do what the council wants to do we need to appoint someone tonight to take place we'll table this and let them see if they Chang the when the next time board me it's on hold until we decide your I mean I see ER I and if you agree then just just uh vote against the resolution and tell the board do whatever they want yeah council me you are literally giving away the form which is a pretty heav swing it's a nuclear option and we just talk about the importance having someone on the library so that we're in the discussion at least you know in a advisory role and now we're giving away no we're giving away the operation of the farm not not the though up to you I still have the nuclear op that's how we want to do it I'll do it or with I'll I'll keep that option in my pocket all right I'll make a motion to approve resolution 2510 and put myself in the blank spot for first reading so we can move to discussion and we have a second so the motion is to approve uh 2510 for first reading which would replace Aaron on the floor with Nathan and why would you want for stream I just want to just start discussion in case you guys want toit
well I mean what the move after is that you still Cil still is the authority that approves the board members then City counc get decide so they want more MERS so if they change byog and say okay now there's six board members to count that has the authority they could leave thate but they but they could also get rid of so the idea of leaving two council members is just that we have a stronger voice as a council on the farm board just I asse that was my motivation if I they but they change so my advice to the bo is to resolve this conflict and like article nine could be changed to say the board has the authority to change the bylaws except they may not change the part of the bylaws that says the city council chooses the board without the city council's approval or adoption of a resolution or something yeah there there's lots of Alternatives you could also just have ex official members and so and that so an ex official member is on the board because of a position that they hold elsewhere so we could write in that at least one board member will be a city council member EX isue I agree there's lots of ways to remedy this but right now we need a remedy and I don't think either body can remedy it by themselves corre so let's keep two on'll remedy this okay see what happens so so by doing the first reading you won't be another yeah I think I think the farm board would like to get so many people on just get think as quickly as possible for summer season I make it BR to so now we'll discuss the do you want to wa second read okay is there any opposition to voting on the amendment so you those in favor of amending motion to say wave second Mee please say I are there any post motion before you now is to adopt with the amendment to wave second discussion seeing none cherl will you do the honors please thank it seems like for roll call e is a lot shorter than five thank you cancel that's four in favor none opposed appreciate the discussion Cher thanks uh let's do uh let's do a issue uh Construction contract for 1300 West Tom are you going to take that for us please yes I'll bring that Ina item we'll discuss the consider issuing a noticeable w a subsequent Construction contract to build half of a road on 1300 West between 3300 or 3310 South and 3390 South it's right by the green waste facility this is between like Zinger acres and nly farm subdivisions there it's currently just a half a road it was left out because of the Mi some Wetlands that were observed there so Last Summer Staff hired CSG can't remember what civil solutions group pardon me and bile West and we performed some o delineation and applied for a permit with the Army cor Engineers that was secured in the fall about October 2024 and then after that we went into bidding and and preparing plans 14 contractors responded to a request for bid and it's pretty good turnout for a project like this two of them were disqualified for various reasons and I found two math errors but one one uh really stood out as the low bid and it was much lower than the others the average bid came in around 360,000 the lowest bid was $204,700 th000 more so we verified with this contractor that you're good with these numbers double check them because if we don't want anyone to be in a position they're losing money so they did so there was some some straining out of some contracts and and uh with them internally and we're ready to issue noticeable word to the lowest bidder in the amount of $ 24,740 that that low bidder was true line Contractors LLC their schedule works very well with with the building season they would start immediately or as quickly as possible they did provide a schedule but it was based on the notes of award back on February 20th but due to some things we had to delay until this council meeting but in that original schedule they were done by the middle of June so we can easily get this done in July given the approval to enter or issue the notice of award to the contractor and what that means is then they get to secure their bonds they get to secure their contracts with their subcontractors and things like that gets them some time to do that once they get everything in place insurance certificate in the city's name they present that to staff we review it make sure everything is in order at that point we execute the contract get signatures from city manager and the contractor and then once everything is finally rechecked and approved we can issue notice to proceed to construct are there any questions on that can I just clarify this half Ro's pretty short isn't it it's about a yeah Block it's it's fairly short and then a lot of people use it I've been stuck with people kind trying to get so it'd be a great great project just know the staff intends to allow full closure of that there's really no need for that as a thoroughfare that'll expedite construction activities and really make this thing really uh the project plans it avoids the wetlands by use of a retaining wall on one side so it'll be vertical rather than the sloped area so we impact less than a tenth of an acre there's a little bit of drainage work a guard rail because of the the sudden drop off along the sidewalk but um by Midsummer we can be done with this so staff does recommend issuing notice of award to True line contractors and subsequent contract and get the same Constructor okay questions G the question this is an area exhibit of where we're talking so needs that and so this is a case where because it's our property we have to build that half the road not a developer is there any utilities or anything we want to while we we do this for a bathroom or SE or anything or we're good with just currently there is a water line stubbed into that space uh but we haven't considered other utilities okay well there is a little bit of water line work a new hydrant and there's some Landscape Spring Cs and stuff but this is a city location where we're considering put colletive right yes so that brownish area there is we're looking at the feasibility actually we're preparing plans to construct that get would go further south of there yes same part yes the well probably yeah I'm pretty sure there is one when Zinger Acres was constructed about a week after I started at nibble City I'm fairly certain we have utilities water and sewer stuff in multiple locations but I would have to double check I think they're more on the north end but I'd have to double check we have liquidated damages as part of the contract so this this is a contract I've used on the 3200 South sidewalk I've also used it elsewhere in the valley it's pretty effective it's been proven it was reviewed by our previous City attorney is basically a template at this point that I use be any reason why they're so substantial they yeah they did they said that they really wanted the project they realized it intentionally that there's not a whole lot of Mark up in there but they just really wanted to work on this project in particular th this really seemed like an enticing project to many there's 14 biders I think it was it's more associated with the the size and the price of the project a lot more people can qualify for bonding on those lower threshold projects less than 500,000 so there's a lot more interest in it but in particular with true line they they've done work in nii they they work all over the valley they're quite a good contractor I think they'll do a great job for us like make a motion to approve the issuing of notice award and Construction contract West Improvement 3310 South 339 South I have a motion and the second from to approve contract discussion Council good job Tom appreciate your experience don't tell arest to pay for but we knew it was coming uh any other discussion is there an objection to voting seeing none those in favor of warning this contract please say I second yeah thank you thank you Sheriff those in favor Waring this contract please say I I POS done thank you good um I think we should take a break maybe just before the public hearing we okay to press on on 11 and 12 okay let's do that y ordinance 255 development land adj agement this for us yeah and if if I can give you as many details as you'd like but I was planning on just giving you an update from from second reading if that works for everybody um so there there were just a few things that came up during first reading one was this is a clarification that the developer will be responsible um to provide curb Gutter and sidewalk on the seat of property it is in the agreement it's not just on the plans it was on the agreement previously we just weren't able to provide that information uh we did we did remove uh an error on on the cover sheet that referenced it really referenced another project so that that was just that was just an error on staff's part that's been taken out and we do have a signed agreement um that that was um requested by by by C council member lowon actually have it right here as well if you want the physical version but they they brought it in but uh we had you know we have the digital version in the in the packet there uh I believe that's that's all the updates on this so you know ju just setting forth uh all of all the standards for this land exchange it's primarily what this agreement does council motion to approve ordinance 255 I have a motion and the second to approve 2505 as stated uh please yes oh sorry get discussion this is this has been a good process uh it's been a it's been a Cooperative effort it's it's a winwin so good job yeah I agree I think it's that piece of land that's could have been sit for a long see thank you and in a very similar vein this is a boundary line adjustment yeah there's not a whole lot to explain here that this is this is just formalizing the the actual boundary line adjustment between the properties that that are um spelled out in the agreement so it's it's you know actually taking action to move re or to to move those boundaries and and and then and then it would be recorded after that but giving the council the authority to do presented I have a motion from norm and a second from Aaron to approve ordinance 25-11 on a boundary line of adjustment discussion sorry sorry resol oh sorry I already checked it off I just I know where you're going don't don't let me build an next B P resolution 2515 please thank you it's up to you Council discussion opposition voting seeing none s we call the rooll please favor in favor in favor more in favor and po post thank you counil uh Nathan you wanted to watch a basketball game so do you want to just press on through the agenda or do you want to take a store break Aaron what about you unless I hear something from the council will press on with the agenda so next is a public hearing ordinance 2511 this is an annexation and an annexation request which is accompanied as as usual by a zoning assignment for the parcels that Levi will tell us about yeah and this and there uh there's another agenda item after this that that relates to this in my presentation I'm going to kind of uh reference some of those some of those things because uh and this has to do with the zoning that that's being requested by the applicant but this this annexation petition the council did did see this in uh previously and and and did take action to um accept the petition for further consideration so we've gone through uh a process with with that uh this is this is an area just south of of nibbly farms and you know really a few blocks south of of the area that we we just discussed with the road that was approved there on on 1300 West so it's between 1200 West and 1500 West uh this this area is in the city's annexation declaration area and the applicant is requesting and I'll show it on the map here for a portion of it they're requesting an RM Zone in conjunction with this annexation and an r2a zone for for another portion of it and I'll I'll I'll point that out uh which which Parcels are talking about there uh the if if approved this would create an unincorporated Island uh previously and maybe I'll just go to the next slide here so previously what was presented just this is this is a a slight change to what was previously put in front of the council this would have created an unincorporated Peninsula so the if if you follow my cursor there this was the northern boundary of of the annexation but but what's being proposed now is to include this this rideway uh up to and this is the city's existing boundary so this area um just north of of the annexation area it would remain unincorporated and this would be an unincorporated Island and then and then this this area would be the the annexation area uh What uh the the two Northern Parcels here are proposed to be an r2a Zone and then this parcel on the south is proposed to be um an RM Zone and this was reviewed by the Planning Commission I'll go over the rec their recommendation on that a little more in detail but they they have had a public hearing on on the the zoning and and recommendations so this is again the area just to give a little bit more context you can see uh just just to the north there that's the nibbly farm subdivision that's just kind of finishing up and it's and this would be directly south of there uh you look at our our future land use map this uh tan area here that's medium density residential uh that's and then the the orange area that's commercial and medium to high density residential so really a mix of uses uh for for that area is what is what we have in our general plan you look at our general plan you know in in considering the the zoning some of the goals to consider ENC L goal one encourage development respects and preserves the character of the city and provides a mix of commercial residential housing and some light industrial uses carefully planed for growth within the city ensuring that development occurs in suitable locations and can be efficiently served over the long term land use goal two is to guide land use and growth decisions through applications the general plan future land use map and relevant goals principles and projects and res residential development and housing goal one is to ensure that new residential development is compatible with existing development and protects ni's rural character and natural resources and then our Mo within our moderate income housing plan which is an appendix to the general plan it's really it's really part of the general plan it it does state reone for densities necessary to facilitate the production of moderate income housing and there's specific benchmark consider additional areas in which the RM Zone could apply so staff's recommendation for this annexation and and proposed zoning assignment is is approval uh but with the uh with the this condition that the parcel uh the r the parcel that's proposed to be RM the 03049 0013 would be added to the eligibility map for the RM Zone and actually on the agenda tonight uh before this consideration not not before the public hearing but before this this consideration is is that to consider whether to add it to the eligibility map now the planning commission's recommendation uh differs from staff's and that is to uh assign well and and first of all I'll I want to mention that the Planning Commission doesn't actually recommend on the annexation but but they do on the zoning and so they they did uh discuss the the appropriate zone for these parcels and the Planning Commission recommended to uh to Zone these three Parcels as r2a um in conjunction with the proposed annexation all all three of the parcel so not not the RM Zone as as was requested uh they they did discuss that they they had some issues with with the current RM Zone they felt that it was created with you know a specific piece of property in mind and they and they didn't feel like this that that it was appropriate for this property and so they have sense there have been a few workshops with the Planning Commission uh staff has and and will uh continue to discuss this with the Planning Commission but staff has drafted some uh potential amendments to the ordinance that that are going to be vetted with the Planning Commission at the next meeting uh based upon that discussion I'll just say it it has been a little bit of a messy process I don't think there's necessarily A consensus on the Planning Commission there's there's a lot of different approaches and different opinions uh and and different ways that this can go but but it's it's going in a in a in a positive direction so that I I just wanted to kind of report on that as as part of this but but it is planning commission's recommendation at this time uh to Zone all three Parcels as r2a in Junction with this annexation questions for Levi before we go to the f um I I have one it's just my failing memory you talk about as previously presented did this actually get to the council before it it it did so every every annexation comes to the council but just as a kind of prel preliminary the council accepts the petition to look to look at right the petition so that it can go to the next step basically in the process and and at this point in time all um all this all the steps have have been you know um according to state code have been met uh this is there's been a protest period uh as I mentioned this went to the County Council on Tuesday it was approved uh so just this week uh the they they had and I I I don't know if I I adequately explain why that was changed I I don't I I didn't I should actually bring that up yeah yeah I didn't I didn't mention that so so the reason really why there there was a change to that area uh this was that the previous version was put in front of the County Council and they they had some concerns with the maintenance of the road they felt like well it's it's Prim it's going to be leading to an area in nibi uh it's it's a gap in the road Network that is difficult to maintain and so you know they felt like that that nibbly City should maintain that we met with our city staff and we felt like the cleanest way for that to happen would be simply to Annex it we could potentially and this could have uh this this could also appease them enter into some kind of an agreement for maintenance of the road however uh if we're going to maintain the road we feel it it's it would be in the city's best interest to just include it within within the city there's some other reasons to do this with with public utility or with with utilities located in the road uh that it it would be much cleaner if they were within nibbly City to support that future development than than if they than if they're in the county so I think it's obvious from the weirdness of the map but would you put your cursor on the roing question the right yeah so it's right it's right here so 1500 West uh there's this section it's about 660 ft in length that the the city would be taking on and it's it's really adjacent to unincorp ated areas would be this it create this unincorporated higher why was it specifically that I you said they just planning didn't like the r for this specific spot they like only works I I don't know if uh I don't know if there's consensus they didn't like this for that density and and the type of development the RM would provide but they didn't feel comfortable with the standards of the RM Zone and they wanted to get into those details before they would Grant this Zone uh for for this specific property uh there there may be some that feel like it's not the right property but I don't I don't think that was really expressed by the Planning Commission Claire I don't I don't know if you if you have anything to add uh to that you know from that discussion but I I don't um yes please if you have anything I mean um we're getting ready for the public hearing so we we'll stay away from policy disc go ahead CL um I don't think they're disagreeing with the annexation into the properties it's okay with that they're not disagreeing with they're disagreeing that the the clarity of cod it's fuzzy and so that's why they're a little bit unas I think I get the feeling they're uneasy to Zone as are because of the the so I think that's why I mean they did yeah and they did say well we'll work on this and then we'll we'll bring that back up uh the the RM consideration once we get through that process that's that's the intent but it's still something that app wants to they to reapply again we they can apply and it would be considered within you know the next meeting the the Planning Commission has expressed that they would like to bring it back up for consideration even without an application but they might have to be patient to till we get through that process so it that's that's what they've Express so and we could do that that we don't need an application to consider a rezone u but right right okay if there's no objection we'll go to the public and there was a s she you certainly don't have to sign up in order to speak to the Council on this matter I do have Dan lson uh signed up so if you'd like to speak to us please come
well I mean what the move after is that you still Cil still is the authority that approves the board members then City counc get decide so they want more MERS so if they change byog and say okay now there's six board members to count that has the authority they could leave thate but they but they could also get rid of so the idea of leaving two council members is just that we have a stronger voice as a council on the farm board just I asse that was my motivation if I they but they change so my advice to the bo is to resolve this conflict and like article nine could be changed to say the board has the authority to change the bylaws except they may not change the part of the bylaws that says the city council chooses the board without the city council's approval or adoption of a resolution or something yeah there there's lots of Alternatives you could also just have ex official members and so and that so an ex official member is on the board because of a position that they hold elsewhere so we could write in that at least one board member will be a city council member EX isue I agree there's lots of ways to remedy this but right now we need a remedy and I don't think either body can remedy it by themselves corre so let's keep two on'll remedy this okay see what happens so so by doing the first reading you won't be another yeah I think I think the farm board would like to get so many people on just get think as quickly as possible for summer season I make it BR to so now we'll discuss the do you want to wa second read okay is there any opposition to voting on the amendment so you those in favor of amending motion to say wave second Mee please say I are there any post motion before you now is to adopt with the amendment to wave second discussion seeing none cherl will you do the honors please thank it seems like for roll call e is a lot shorter than five thank you cancel that's four in favor none opposed appreciate the discussion Cher thanks uh let's do uh let's do a issue uh Construction contract for 1300 West Tom are you going to take that for us please yes I'll bring that Ina item we'll discuss the consider issuing a noticeable w a subsequent Construction contract to build half of a road on 1300 West between 3300 or 3310 South and 3390 South it's right by the green waste facility this is between like Zinger acres and nly farm subdivisions there it's currently just a half a road it was left out because of the Mi some Wetlands that were observed there so Last Summer Staff hired CSG can't remember what civil solutions group pardon me and bile West and we performed some o delineation and applied for a permit with the Army cor Engineers that was secured in the fall about October 2024 and then after that we went into bidding and and preparing plans 14 contractors responded to a request for bid and it's pretty good turnout for a project like this two of them were disqualified for various reasons and I found two math errors but one one uh really stood out as the low bid and it was much lower than the others the average bid came in around 360,000 the lowest bid was $204,700 th000 more so we verified with this contractor that you're good with these numbers double check them because if we don't want anyone to be in a position they're losing money so they did so there was some some straining out of some contracts and and uh with them internally and we're ready to issue noticeable word to the lowest bidder in the amount of $ 24,740 that that low bidder was true line Contractors LLC their schedule works very well with with the building season they would start immediately or as quickly as possible they did provide a schedule but it was based on the notes of award back on February 20th but due to some things we had to delay until this council meeting but in that original schedule they were done by the middle of June so we can easily get this done in July given the approval to enter or issue the notice of award to the contractor and what that means is then they get to secure their bonds they get to secure their contracts with their subcontractors and things like that gets them some time to do that once they get everything in place insurance certificate in the city's name they present that to staff we review it make sure everything is in order at that point we execute the contract get signatures from city manager and the contractor and then once everything is finally rechecked and approved we can issue notice to proceed to construct are there any questions on that can I just clarify this half Ro's pretty short isn't it it's about a yeah Block it's it's fairly short and then a lot of people use it I've been stuck with people kind trying to get so it'd be a great great project just know the staff intends to allow full closure of that there's really no need for that as a thoroughfare that'll expedite construction activities and really make this thing really uh the project plans it avoids the wetlands by use of a retaining wall on one side so it'll be vertical rather than the sloped area so we impact less than a tenth of an acre there's a little bit of drainage work a guard rail because of the the sudden drop off along the sidewalk but um by Midsummer we can be done with this so staff does recommend issuing notice of award to True line contractors and subsequent contract and get the same Constructor okay questions G the question this is an area exhibit of where we're talking so needs that and so this is a case where because it's our property we have to build that half the road not a developer is there any utilities or anything we want to while we we do this for a bathroom or SE or anything or we're good with just currently there is a water line stubbed into that space uh but we haven't considered other utilities okay well there is a little bit of water line work a new hydrant and there's some Landscape Spring Cs and stuff but this is a city location where we're considering put colletive right yes so that brownish area there is we're looking at the feasibility actually we're preparing plans to construct that get would go further south of there yes same part yes the well probably yeah I'm pretty sure there is one when Zinger Acres was constructed about a week after I started at nibble City I'm fairly certain we have utilities water and sewer stuff in multiple locations but I would have to double check I think they're more on the north end but I'd have to double check we have liquidated damages as part of the contract so this this is a contract I've used on the 3200 South sidewalk I've also used it elsewhere in the valley it's pretty effective it's been proven it was reviewed by our previous City attorney is basically a template at this point that I use be any reason why they're so substantial they yeah they did they said that they really wanted the project they realized it intentionally that there's not a whole lot of Mark up in there but they just really wanted to work on this project in particular th this really seemed like an enticing project to many there's 14 biders I think it was it's more associated with the the size and the price of the project a lot more people can qualify for bonding on those lower threshold projects less than 500,000 so there's a lot more interest in it but in particular with true line they they've done work in nii they they work all over the valley they're quite a good contractor I think they'll do a great job for us like make a motion to approve the issuing of notice award and Construction contract West Improvement 3310 South 339 South I have a motion and the second from to approve contract discussion Council good job Tom appreciate your experience don't tell arest to pay for but we knew it was coming uh any other discussion is there an objection to voting seeing none those in favor of warning this contract please say I second yeah thank you thank you Sheriff those in favor Waring this contract please say I I POS done thank you good um I think we should take a break maybe just before the public hearing we okay to press on on 11 and 12 okay let's do that y ordinance 255 development land adj agement this for us yeah and if if I can give you as many details as you'd like but I was planning on just giving you an update from from second reading if that works for everybody um so there there were just a few things that came up during first reading one was this is a clarification that the developer will be responsible um to provide curb Gutter and sidewalk on the seat of property it is in the agreement it's not just on the plans it was on the agreement previously we just weren't able to provide that information uh we did we did remove uh an error on on the cover sheet that referenced it really referenced another project so that that was just that was just an error on staff's part that's been taken out and we do have a signed agreement um that that was um requested by by by C council member lowon actually have it right here as well if you want the physical version but they they brought it in but uh we had you know we have the digital version in the in the packet there uh I believe that's that's all the updates on this so you know ju just setting forth uh all of all the standards for this land exchange it's primarily what this agreement does council motion to approve ordinance 255 I have a motion and the second to approve 2505 as stated uh please yes oh sorry get discussion this is this has been a good process uh it's been a it's been a Cooperative effort it's it's a winwin so good job yeah I agree I think it's that piece of land that's could have been sit for a long see thank you and in a very similar vein this is a boundary line adjustment yeah there's not a whole lot to explain here that this is this is just formalizing the the actual boundary line adjustment between the properties that that are um spelled out in the agreement so it's it's you know actually taking action to move re or to to move those boundaries and and and then and then it would be recorded after that but giving the council the authority to do presented I have a motion from norm and a second from Aaron to approve ordinance 25-11 on a boundary line of adjustment discussion sorry sorry resol oh sorry I already checked it off I just I know where you're going don't don't let me build an next B P resolution 2515 please thank you it's up to you Council discussion opposition voting seeing none s we call the rooll please favor in favor in favor more in favor and po post thank you counil uh Nathan you wanted to watch a basketball game so do you want to just press on through the agenda or do you want to take a store break Aaron what about you unless I hear something from the council will press on with the agenda so next is a public hearing ordinance 2511 this is an annexation and an annexation request which is accompanied as as usual by a zoning assignment for the parcels that Levi will tell us about yeah and this and there uh there's another agenda item after this that that relates to this in my presentation I'm going to kind of uh reference some of those some of those things because uh and this has to do with the zoning that that's being requested by the applicant but this this annexation petition the council did did see this in uh previously and and and did take action to um accept the petition for further consideration so we've gone through uh a process with with that uh this is this is an area just south of of nibbly farms and you know really a few blocks south of of the area that we we just discussed with the road that was approved there on on 1300 West so it's between 1200 West and 1500 West uh this this area is in the city's annexation declaration area and the applicant is requesting and I'll show it on the map here for a portion of it they're requesting an RM Zone in conjunction with this annexation and an r2a zone for for another portion of it and I'll I'll I'll point that out uh which which Parcels are talking about there uh the if if approved this would create an unincorporated Island uh previously and maybe I'll just go to the next slide here so previously what was presented just this is this is a a slight change to what was previously put in front of the council this would have created an unincorporated Peninsula so the if if you follow my cursor there this was the northern boundary of of the annexation but but what's being proposed now is to include this this rideway uh up to and this is the city's existing boundary so this area um just north of of the annexation area it would remain unincorporated and this would be an unincorporated Island and then and then this this area would be the the annexation area uh What uh the the two Northern Parcels here are proposed to be an r2a Zone and then this parcel on the south is proposed to be um an RM Zone and this was reviewed by the Planning Commission I'll go over the rec their recommendation on that a little more in detail but they they have had a public hearing on on the the zoning and and recommendations so this is again the area just to give a little bit more context you can see uh just just to the north there that's the nibbly farm subdivision that's just kind of finishing up and it's and this would be directly south of there uh you look at our our future land use map this uh tan area here that's medium density residential uh that's and then the the orange area that's commercial and medium to high density residential so really a mix of uses uh for for that area is what is what we have in our general plan you look at our general plan you know in in considering the the zoning some of the goals to consider ENC L goal one encourage development respects and preserves the character of the city and provides a mix of commercial residential housing and some light industrial uses carefully planed for growth within the city ensuring that development occurs in suitable locations and can be efficiently served over the long term land use goal two is to guide land use and growth decisions through applications the general plan future land use map and relevant goals principles and projects and res residential development and housing goal one is to ensure that new residential development is compatible with existing development and protects ni's rural character and natural resources and then our Mo within our moderate income housing plan which is an appendix to the general plan it's really it's really part of the general plan it it does state reone for densities necessary to facilitate the production of moderate income housing and there's specific benchmark consider additional areas in which the RM Zone could apply so staff's recommendation for this annexation and and proposed zoning assignment is is approval uh but with the uh with the this condition that the parcel uh the r the parcel that's proposed to be RM the 03049 0013 would be added to the eligibility map for the RM Zone and actually on the agenda tonight uh before this consideration not not before the public hearing but before this this consideration is is that to consider whether to add it to the eligibility map now the planning commission's recommendation uh differs from staff's and that is to uh assign well and and first of all I'll I want to mention that the Planning Commission doesn't actually recommend on the annexation but but they do on the zoning and so they they did uh discuss the the appropriate zone for these parcels and the Planning Commission recommended to uh to Zone these three Parcels as r2a um in conjunction with the proposed annexation all all three of the parcel so not not the RM Zone as as was requested uh they they did discuss that they they had some issues with with the current RM Zone they felt that it was created with you know a specific piece of property in mind and they and they didn't feel like this that that it was appropriate for this property and so they have sense there have been a few workshops with the Planning Commission uh staff has and and will uh continue to discuss this with the Planning Commission but staff has drafted some uh potential amendments to the ordinance that that are going to be vetted with the Planning Commission at the next meeting uh based upon that discussion I'll just say it it has been a little bit of a messy process I don't think there's necessarily A consensus on the Planning Commission there's there's a lot of different approaches and different opinions uh and and different ways that this can go but but it's it's going in a in a in a positive direction so that I I just wanted to kind of report on that as as part of this but but it is planning commission's recommendation at this time uh to Zone all three Parcels as r2a in Junction with this annexation questions for Levi before we go to the f um I I have one it's just my failing memory you talk about as previously presented did this actually get to the council before it it it did so every every annexation comes to the council but just as a kind of prel preliminary the council accepts the petition to look to look at right the petition so that it can go to the next step basically in the process and and at this point in time all um all this all the steps have have been you know um according to state code have been met uh this is there's been a protest period uh as I mentioned this went to the County Council on Tuesday it was approved uh so just this week uh the they they had and I I I don't know if I I adequately explain why that was changed I I don't I I didn't I should actually bring that up yeah yeah I didn't I didn't mention that so so the reason really why there there was a change to that area uh this was that the previous version was put in front of the County Council and they they had some concerns with the maintenance of the road they felt like well it's it's Prim it's going to be leading to an area in nibi uh it's it's a gap in the road Network that is difficult to maintain and so you know they felt like that that nibbly City should maintain that we met with our city staff and we felt like the cleanest way for that to happen would be simply to Annex it we could potentially and this could have uh this this could also appease them enter into some kind of an agreement for maintenance of the road however uh if we're going to maintain the road we feel it it's it would be in the city's best interest to just include it within within the city there's some other reasons to do this with with public utility or with with utilities located in the road uh that it it would be much cleaner if they were within nibbly City to support that future development than than if they than if they're in the county so I think it's obvious from the weirdness of the map but would you put your cursor on the roing question the right yeah so it's right it's right here so 1500 West uh there's this section it's about 660 ft in length that the the city would be taking on and it's it's really adjacent to unincorp ated areas would be this it create this unincorporated higher why was it specifically that I you said they just planning didn't like the r for this specific spot they like only works I I don't know if uh I don't know if there's consensus they didn't like this for that density and and the type of development the RM would provide but they didn't feel comfortable with the standards of the RM Zone and they wanted to get into those details before they would Grant this Zone uh for for this specific property uh there there may be some that feel like it's not the right property but I don't I don't think that was really expressed by the Planning Commission Claire I don't I don't know if you if you have anything to add uh to that you know from that discussion but I I don't um yes please if you have anything I mean um we're getting ready for the public hearing so we we'll stay away from policy disc go ahead CL um I don't think they're disagreeing with the annexation into the properties it's okay with that they're not disagreeing with they're disagreeing that the the clarity of cod it's fuzzy and so that's why they're a little bit unas I think I get the feeling they're uneasy to Zone as are because of the the so I think that's why I mean they did yeah and they did say well we'll work on this and then we'll we'll bring that back up uh the the RM consideration once we get through that process that's that's the intent but it's still something that app wants to they to reapply again we they can apply and it would be considered within you know the next meeting the the Planning Commission has expressed that they would like to bring it back up for consideration even without an application but they might have to be patient to till we get through that process so it that's that's what they've Express so and we could do that that we don't need an application to consider a rezone u but right right okay if there's no objection we'll go to the public and there was a s she you certainly don't have to sign up in order to speak to the Council on this matter I do have Dan lson uh signed up so if you'd like to speak to us please come
project the whole point of as we work with annexation and the way it's been put together is we just tried to honor everybody's requests that's involed Mr St just follow the city's General plan so we're not trying to change unan we're not trying to say hey change what you guys want we're just trying to follow what we've given I do want to give a shout out to Lei I've been doing Land Development for over 20 years now and it's been great working with them through this anation and state codes and different things it's always great to work with somebody that says well here's the code let's just follow I love that and so if nothing else I want you guys and maybe you'll stick around for the council discussion since you're still here another 30 40 50 minutes what who else would like to speak to the council Frank come on 578 tell us who you are and where you live please is it going to look like Visionary with the tall can you provide information on that without yeah talking about policy okay yeah so the uh the RM Zone the highest I'll just speak to kind of the highest that's allowed there it's 10 units per net developable acre uh that the the scale of development that that would typically allow would be something like tow houses there are other options of development doesn't have to be town houses but but but yeah I mean the uh you know twostory tow houses maybe potentially three story tow houses is most likely the type the the type of the highest scale of development you're going to see now there is there is an option to go higher if with transfer of development rights I don't I don't need to get into all those details and the applicant has and they they did with the Planning Commission uh mentioned that they didn't they didn't intend to use that that option but it can go up to 20 units for net develop Laker if if development rights are transferred from from another another property uh but there's a lot of details there to get to that point um that a lot of process to go through but that's that's a potential for with this Zone designation yeah we're just you know we just didn't want to be so intrusive where you know everybody's looking down on us on our property here AC so they ended up putting something like Visionary It's Kind it's tall for some reason it's just not going to grow like that's what thing seems they they like to do is to keep the rural character resources and look you nice um anyway sorry I need I need to amend something I said this is actually not in a TDR receiving zone so I they can't go up to 20 units per acre they would have to get an additional overlay to do that so sorry sorry I kind of misspoke east and south develop someone I think just bought May was Sierra homes maybe about 60 or 65 acres so the whole project was appreciate everybody here not against nibbly not here trying to stop the project I'm just hoping they do a good job that the the housing is done you professionally years I would think also that do you guys have any idea what they're doing put in the houses or the roads or you guys are just passing this anation seeing anything except a flat piece of paper so that's the process Frank um in fact in terms of planning a community we say this would be a good place for this to become part of nibi and for this type of housing without actually getting into the details of what the specific development looks like now depending on what zoning is assigned there there's different ways to go there's the r2a there's the RM this is going to be up to the council but but once the zoning is assigned then you can then you can start counting on and as a neighbor and the proponent can start counting on what entitlements they get with that zone but in terms of details about where the roads are and so on and so forth uh it has to follow the code but code is established by the zoning and when do they think of starting construction I can't I don't know if the proponent has information or or not I mean you don't have to you have to put sewer down the road you'll still be alive that's that's what like to me yeah I mean that's that's the entitlement of the type of zoning we've talked about with RM at 10 when it to please uh you're free to send it to anyone you want especially so okay um all of the council including me as a member of council all of our emails are on the website okay so that's probably the best way for you to get correspondence right okay thank you yeah thanks right anyone else uh like to address the council oh if you have information for us we again we don't want to do a poliy debate but if you have information two many the idea with those two that we start construction Construction SE water soild on the lower piece we have not done any sketches we've not started any drawings on that we've done a topo on it we have got zero plan right now continuing through tying both South into the lower piece and also working with Heritage coming through to tie through connectivity through there having a one road I we call on our planning to Stu up up into the Zer piece I just don't like isolated subdivisions I want to have some connectivity but again nothing set in stone as you work staff on that but it was our goal like to begin construction during this construction season question he had could answer I think that had it far as the town home goes if you want to see kind of what we do we've got a project going Smith we finished one in h main just two story town both front loaded thank you other comments from the public okay with that we'll close the public hearing thank you for speaking thank you for listening thank you for talking uh with that Council will turn I mean it's kind of a a double whammy we'll we'll we'll go to item 14 and ordinance 2513 that's uh oh that's how we're doing it right so the first thing we're going to look at is amending the mixed residential map and then we'll consider based on that decision the annexation and also a zoning s right so and and I I want to clarify the for this first item the addition to the RM application map it was planning commission's recommendation to approve the ordinance to add this as an eligible property to the RM application map but not but not to Zone it as RM at this point uh so there's not really any other additional information I mean the the you know when you look at our general plan and and the goals of our general plan I feel like that's already been covered uh the the future land use map and how that applies but but that that was the planning commission's recommendation was to for for this item was to amend as and and the applicant did submit a separate application by the way for this amendment to the map or or Amendment to the eligibility map which which would amend the code uh ni city code to allow this so it was to amend the map but then not assigned that zoning on annexation correct all right can you I'll get out of the way here real soon since we're talking about amending the map can you show us the current map please for the h Zone yeah I'm I'll just pull up the code that's probably the quickest way for me to do that so I was doing that um maybe my perspective a little bit of History to explain why we have this it's kind of a double process to amend the code the ordinance that would change a map and then also a map where RM is allowed and then also to then go Zone it once the the map is changed all right so the what we refer to as the Campbell property in the upper right was uh this the Zone was created I I was I'll call it mytical this was a time when that property was contested by n city and uh Logan City and maybe yeah you guys shaking your head so so so that was the map originally and then since then the council has also added the property Southwest of the Campbell property this is the Nelson family property in their residential and so those are the those are the two places that RM is currently eligible does any of that history make sense some of you until it's time so you remember the process Logan that's so we go to match is originally yes Chang it was patterned after that that the density uh in particular was I the the code itself though is more of a copy of our our PUD ordinance than it is of Logan's ordinance U and the and the reason for that it was a pretty expedited process at the time and the rpu went through a a pretty thorough you know a very thorough review with the city and and it was felt at the time that it would be more appropriate for us to uh follow our own standards and another city standards that have been vetted that that we feel you know we can get behind so that but the density has changed uh it was originally 20 units it's now 10 uh per per net develop acre for that there have been some other changes to it as well uh there there have been considerations I mean it is in our moderate comp housing plan is hey we should think about which areas we might want to expand this but but yeah origin that that was its Genesis was coming out of that that issue with the Campbell property commissions I'm not sure any loves it yet just there's some things that need to be changed in that and from what we learned from the training years once we put it on B it's really part so giving them the zoning by adding the question really needs to be we want there we want to change M here in essence we're just going to give it to them I mean because it's kind of weird to give them that on the map not give do you want to say anything before you go right yeah so I know it's been Ching nor first we're going to talk about changing the RM but your motion could be to address that issue if you so deire in other words if you're intending to Annex this all in r2a then I think the motion for this item would be to deny the change to the RM map to includ this this or continue or continue or take a second reading on it or however you to do it right not trying to leave you I this is first reading yeah but I motion to continue between 53 okay and so indepently or until a certain point when we accomplish something or a certain date or what how do you want to it's up to you you can tell the RM zone is it's being worked on now since tell RM zone is re F oh okay okay I think that a motion to continue which means postpone the discussion about remapping this property until nible City Planning Commission and city council with staff's help have a chance to look at the r Cod just to clarify so would that come in in the Planning Commission providing a recommendation to to city council regarding the RM zone or as as the okay so okay that's the motion would include the the Contin I I just want I'm just I'm just clarifying how that how that would happen this continue the city until at city council until the pl has worked through the potential for code Amendment on the arm Zone and then that's when the city council would see their recommendation and take this matter up again at that and and so that's a verification is there a second on that discussion yeah I think the area do I think that's why to see how how I think qualify we're all concerned about
project the whole point of as we work with annexation and the way it's been put together is we just tried to honor everybody's requests that's involed Mr St just follow the city's General plan so we're not trying to change unan we're not trying to say hey change what you guys want we're just trying to follow what we've given I do want to give a shout out to Lei I've been doing Land Development for over 20 years now and it's been great working with them through this anation and state codes and different things it's always great to work with somebody that says well here's the code let's just follow I love that and so if nothing else I want you guys and maybe you'll stick around for the council discussion since you're still here another 30 40 50 minutes what who else would like to speak to the council Frank come on 578 tell us who you are and where you live please is it going to look like Visionary with the tall can you provide information on that without yeah talking about policy okay yeah so the uh the RM Zone the highest I'll just speak to kind of the highest that's allowed there it's 10 units per net developable acre uh that the the scale of development that that would typically allow would be something like tow houses there are other options of development doesn't have to be town houses but but but yeah I mean the uh you know twostory tow houses maybe potentially three story tow houses is most likely the type the the type of the highest scale of development you're going to see now there is there is an option to go higher if with transfer of development rights I don't I don't need to get into all those details and the applicant has and they they did with the Planning Commission uh mentioned that they didn't they didn't intend to use that that option but it can go up to 20 units for net develop Laker if if development rights are transferred from from another another property uh but there's a lot of details there to get to that point um that a lot of process to go through but that's that's a potential for with this Zone designation yeah we're just you know we just didn't want to be so intrusive where you know everybody's looking down on us on our property here AC so they ended up putting something like Visionary It's Kind it's tall for some reason it's just not going to grow like that's what thing seems they they like to do is to keep the rural character resources and look you nice um anyway sorry I need I need to amend something I said this is actually not in a TDR receiving zone so I they can't go up to 20 units per acre they would have to get an additional overlay to do that so sorry sorry I kind of misspoke east and south develop someone I think just bought May was Sierra homes maybe about 60 or 65 acres so the whole project was appreciate everybody here not against nibbly not here trying to stop the project I'm just hoping they do a good job that the the housing is done you professionally years I would think also that do you guys have any idea what they're doing put in the houses or the roads or you guys are just passing this anation seeing anything except a flat piece of paper so that's the process Frank um in fact in terms of planning a community we say this would be a good place for this to become part of nibi and for this type of housing without actually getting into the details of what the specific development looks like now depending on what zoning is assigned there there's different ways to go there's the r2a there's the RM this is going to be up to the council but but once the zoning is assigned then you can then you can start counting on and as a neighbor and the proponent can start counting on what entitlements they get with that zone but in terms of details about where the roads are and so on and so forth uh it has to follow the code but code is established by the zoning and when do they think of starting construction I can't I don't know if the proponent has information or or not I mean you don't have to you have to put sewer down the road you'll still be alive that's that's what like to me yeah I mean that's that's the entitlement of the type of zoning we've talked about with RM at 10 when it to please uh you're free to send it to anyone you want especially so okay um all of the council including me as a member of council all of our emails are on the website okay so that's probably the best way for you to get correspondence right okay thank you yeah thanks right anyone else uh like to address the council oh if you have information for us we again we don't want to do a poliy debate but if you have information two many the idea with those two that we start construction Construction SE water soild on the lower piece we have not done any sketches we've not started any drawings on that we've done a topo on it we have got zero plan right now continuing through tying both South into the lower piece and also working with Heritage coming through to tie through connectivity through there having a one road I we call on our planning to Stu up up into the Zer piece I just don't like isolated subdivisions I want to have some connectivity but again nothing set in stone as you work staff on that but it was our goal like to begin construction during this construction season question he had could answer I think that had it far as the town home goes if you want to see kind of what we do we've got a project going Smith we finished one in h main just two story town both front loaded thank you other comments from the public okay with that we'll close the public hearing thank you for speaking thank you for listening thank you for talking uh with that Council will turn I mean it's kind of a a double whammy we'll we'll we'll go to item 14 and ordinance 2513 that's uh oh that's how we're doing it right so the first thing we're going to look at is amending the mixed residential map and then we'll consider based on that decision the annexation and also a zoning s right so and and I I want to clarify the for this first item the addition to the RM application map it was planning commission's recommendation to approve the ordinance to add this as an eligible property to the RM application map but not but not to Zone it as RM at this point uh so there's not really any other additional information I mean the the you know when you look at our general plan and and the goals of our general plan I feel like that's already been covered uh the the future land use map and how that applies but but that that was the planning commission's recommendation was to for for this item was to amend as and and the applicant did submit a separate application by the way for this amendment to the map or or Amendment to the eligibility map which which would amend the code uh ni city code to allow this so it was to amend the map but then not assigned that zoning on annexation correct all right can you I'll get out of the way here real soon since we're talking about amending the map can you show us the current map please for the h Zone yeah I'm I'll just pull up the code that's probably the quickest way for me to do that so I was doing that um maybe my perspective a little bit of History to explain why we have this it's kind of a double process to amend the code the ordinance that would change a map and then also a map where RM is allowed and then also to then go Zone it once the the map is changed all right so the what we refer to as the Campbell property in the upper right was uh this the Zone was created I I was I'll call it mytical this was a time when that property was contested by n city and uh Logan City and maybe yeah you guys shaking your head so so so that was the map originally and then since then the council has also added the property Southwest of the Campbell property this is the Nelson family property in their residential and so those are the those are the two places that RM is currently eligible does any of that history make sense some of you until it's time so you remember the process Logan that's so we go to match is originally yes Chang it was patterned after that that the density uh in particular was I the the code itself though is more of a copy of our our PUD ordinance than it is of Logan's ordinance U and the and the reason for that it was a pretty expedited process at the time and the rpu went through a a pretty thorough you know a very thorough review with the city and and it was felt at the time that it would be more appropriate for us to uh follow our own standards and another city standards that have been vetted that that we feel you know we can get behind so that but the density has changed uh it was originally 20 units it's now 10 uh per per net develop acre for that there have been some other changes to it as well uh there there have been considerations I mean it is in our moderate comp housing plan is hey we should think about which areas we might want to expand this but but yeah origin that that was its Genesis was coming out of that that issue with the Campbell property commissions I'm not sure any loves it yet just there's some things that need to be changed in that and from what we learned from the training years once we put it on B it's really part so giving them the zoning by adding the question really needs to be we want there we want to change M here in essence we're just going to give it to them I mean because it's kind of weird to give them that on the map not give do you want to say anything before you go right yeah so I know it's been Ching nor first we're going to talk about changing the RM but your motion could be to address that issue if you so deire in other words if you're intending to Annex this all in r2a then I think the motion for this item would be to deny the change to the RM map to includ this this or continue or continue or take a second reading on it or however you to do it right not trying to leave you I this is first reading yeah but I motion to continue between 53 okay and so indepently or until a certain point when we accomplish something or a certain date or what how do you want to it's up to you you can tell the RM zone is it's being worked on now since tell RM zone is re F oh okay okay I think that a motion to continue which means postpone the discussion about remapping this property until nible City Planning Commission and city council with staff's help have a chance to look at the r Cod just to clarify so would that come in in the Planning Commission providing a recommendation to to city council regarding the RM zone or as as the okay so okay that's the motion would include the the Contin I I just want I'm just I'm just clarifying how that how that would happen this continue the city until at city council until the pl has worked through the potential for code Amendment on the arm Zone and then that's when the city council would see their recommendation and take this matter up again at that and and so that's a verification is there a second on that discussion yeah I think the area do I think that's why to see how how I think qualify we're all concerned about
one we're amending the general plan and that's the goal to get that started change or not see 4,000 all the way through and a future plan make higher density it's ft from yeah let's be careful we we probably won't be adopting a new general plan until next year probably yeah December January probably J yeah January February realistically that that will definitely help with the context of the broader area here and how that all comes together but I I don't I don't think we necessarily need to hold this up this specific proposal up for for that because that's quite that's quite a bit of time to to not make a of this without a sub amendment can 15 even be passed not as presented it it would it would it would need to be it need to be so my question made for the proponent and Levi both um if RM is fuzzy I I I admit it is we haven't built it we haven't seen it um what about R PUD and I know the Planning Commission thought about that maybe the proponent has thought about I don't know how familiar are with all of our different RPS RMS and things to start with r but you know from your point of view Levi what what does RM so so yeah I mean a lot of it is is patterned after it uh the a lot of the standards are patterned after rpu however one one thing with RP is it does require 40 acres and although there are more than 40 acres in this project area it is two Property Owners so there's no one property owner with with 40 acres so that that great the applicant has mentioned that that creates some issues there um for them the the rped ordinance with when we when we adopted the TDR ordinance we actually lowered the density to five units per net developable ler and then you can go up to 50 if you have uh if you bring if you transfer development rights but the base is five so it's quite a bit lower so we rais the price of something to put it on sale store would do right but but this isn't right this isn't a t as you said this is not a TDR it's not it's not a receiving zone so really it's five it's five would be the cap that's a good point yeah you would have to change you have to make it a TDR Zone as well to to even get to those densities uh r2a is about a little a little shy of three units per per acre um then that's a little bit closer to four so you could you could potentially do you know small lot single you could you could mix in some town homes and do larger lot I mean you could do a mix with an rpu uh the now nibbly Meadows and mo most Ju Just for context most of the ruds didn't get to 10 units or and none of them did I think I think uh ridg line is closer to eight as well as Firefly and nibbly Meadows is about six so just for context on on scale that's kind of where they're at but we're gon we G come back to this for about to lose that so we're going to RPD and RM RPD is 5 Aces for five units per acre now um RP requires 40 acors it's those I mean it I think the council has something to figure out I think you guys are on to it and that is you know the Genesis of the RM how it appears probably to be out of Cahoots with the rpu these days um it's substantially it's they're not interchangeable by any means and that's that was the question I was asking so it it deserves some some serious thought okay differ the condition have commercial yeah you can have commercial in there and and and it's a it's RM is an administrative approval and the RP is a legislative approval so requires a master plan and a master development agreement at the beginning so it's which depending on your point of view might be good and might be a fan yeah um even if the conditional uses are allowed that doesn't guarantee they T right yep y an please ready to vot on the motion is there an objection to voting the motion is to continue this item of redoing the RM application map until Planning Commission has made a recommendation to the city council on changing the underlying code for the RN or whatever you wrote down the first time if that's not substantially different that's what I think we're voting on okay we can do this by voice those in favor of the motion to continue please say I I the oppos okay we'll we'll do that Pi it up later so that can lead us right to number 15 I a motion on that Levi do you have anything else to say about 15 you covered it with 14 and 15 okay let's have a motion more motion to approve 251 to a so the motion is different than presented on the agenda the motion is to Annex uh these parcels and to assign a r2a Zone to these pars on entry into New City okay I think I'm just going to bring up the resolution just or the is it the ordinance just so that you see that uh uh let's see what number are we on uh let me let me see if I have a second so I don't know if we need to change what it's called since that might I might clarify it but I would I would just add sentence and yeah I don't know if we need to change what it's yeah so the the title does so I don't I don't know if it's a Sher for us to change that but but that's that's that's what it is because I think that reflects that there's that's what's the annexation and that's the zoning so at this is the motion yeah there we just full disclosure to
one we're amending the general plan and that's the goal to get that started change or not see 4,000 all the way through and a future plan make higher density it's ft from yeah let's be careful we we probably won't be adopting a new general plan until next year probably yeah December January probably J yeah January February realistically that that will definitely help with the context of the broader area here and how that all comes together but I I don't I don't think we necessarily need to hold this up this specific proposal up for for that because that's quite that's quite a bit of time to to not make a of this without a sub amendment can 15 even be passed not as presented it it would it would it would need to be it need to be so my question made for the proponent and Levi both um if RM is fuzzy I I I admit it is we haven't built it we haven't seen it um what about R PUD and I know the Planning Commission thought about that maybe the proponent has thought about I don't know how familiar are with all of our different RPS RMS and things to start with r but you know from your point of view Levi what what does RM so so yeah I mean a lot of it is is patterned after it uh the a lot of the standards are patterned after rpu however one one thing with RP is it does require 40 acres and although there are more than 40 acres in this project area it is two Property Owners so there's no one property owner with with 40 acres so that that great the applicant has mentioned that that creates some issues there um for them the the rped ordinance with when we when we adopted the TDR ordinance we actually lowered the density to five units per net developable ler and then you can go up to 50 if you have uh if you bring if you transfer development rights but the base is five so it's quite a bit lower so we rais the price of something to put it on sale store would do right but but this isn't right this isn't a t as you said this is not a TDR it's not it's not a receiving zone so really it's five it's five would be the cap that's a good point yeah you would have to change you have to make it a TDR Zone as well to to even get to those densities uh r2a is about a little a little shy of three units per per acre um then that's a little bit closer to four so you could you could potentially do you know small lot single you could you could mix in some town homes and do larger lot I mean you could do a mix with an rpu uh the now nibbly Meadows and mo most Ju Just for context most of the ruds didn't get to 10 units or and none of them did I think I think uh ridg line is closer to eight as well as Firefly and nibbly Meadows is about six so just for context on on scale that's kind of where they're at but we're gon we G come back to this for about to lose that so we're going to RPD and RM RPD is 5 Aces for five units per acre now um RP requires 40 acors it's those I mean it I think the council has something to figure out I think you guys are on to it and that is you know the Genesis of the RM how it appears probably to be out of Cahoots with the rpu these days um it's substantially it's they're not interchangeable by any means and that's that was the question I was asking so it it deserves some some serious thought okay differ the condition have commercial yeah you can have commercial in there and and and it's a it's RM is an administrative approval and the RP is a legislative approval so requires a master plan and a master development agreement at the beginning so it's which depending on your point of view might be good and might be a fan yeah um even if the conditional uses are allowed that doesn't guarantee they T right yep y an please ready to vot on the motion is there an objection to voting the motion is to continue this item of redoing the RM application map until Planning Commission has made a recommendation to the city council on changing the underlying code for the RN or whatever you wrote down the first time if that's not substantially different that's what I think we're voting on okay we can do this by voice those in favor of the motion to continue please say I I the oppos okay we'll we'll do that Pi it up later so that can lead us right to number 15 I a motion on that Levi do you have anything else to say about 15 you covered it with 14 and 15 okay let's have a motion more motion to approve 251 to a so the motion is different than presented on the agenda the motion is to Annex uh these parcels and to assign a r2a Zone to these pars on entry into New City okay I think I'm just going to bring up the resolution just or the is it the ordinance just so that you see that uh uh let's see what number are we on uh let me let me see if I have a second so I don't know if we need to change what it's called since that might I might clarify it but I would I would just add sentence and yeah I don't know if we need to change what it's yeah so the the title does so I don't I don't know if it's a Sher for us to change that but but that's that's that's what it is because I think that reflects that there's that's what's the annexation and that's the zoning so at this is the motion yeah there we just full disclosure to
bearch so disclosure of working on titles for these properties that does not put you in a from your point of view I think this gives
bearch so disclosure of working on titles for these properties that does not put you in a from your point of view I think this gives
coms yeah and and I'm going to encourage the Planning Commission and Council and I want so I'm curring myself I think we need a strategy given its Genesis you know is this do we give people the expectation that we're gonna that we're going to do this or that we're not going to do this right so you've invested in the process thank you for being a willing participant and a helpful participant thank you and appreciate the public uh public hearing comments but I'm not sure that we're clear you know the two Parcels that are zoned RM have had some special circumstances associated with them and so we we should try to clear up our strategy on Planning and Zoning uh planning our town as to is RM a special circumstance thing or is this something that proponents can expect to achieve and maybe where they're inded to if they want to give some input of what they can and can't design with them help us right the might be sure Frank will'll invite you to talk talk to us at the same time about how how we can mitigate the impact okay thank you Nathan right I got it I'll start with a different one um there is a little bit so you did just getting it on the record again Ash County Council said we fine with this island yes cool um I think more thaned um it's about 660 ft of road that weing yes that's just the portion that keeps it from being a peninsula you're going to pick up the roadway in front of this parcel so it's more correct right right the 660 feet is the additional it's a total of 13 right both sides the whole right away ask the question again I'm I'm G to pull it that yeah looks like it is um does the city currently service any properties to the east of 1500 West that are not annexed so essentially I'm looking at parcel here I'll pull up an aerial maybe that'll help any water anything essentially anything uh go further nor yeah parcel uh for example 0317 006 03049 006 03049 001 these currently do we know if we service any those or have with proper the first one to the south of if you'll zoom in Foxboro which is is 016 they currently have a water service that's the only one I know of oh wait I so I apologize it's not zoom in it's not one six it's the one above it 0 six Jenkins sorry about that okay we're taking and potential benefits weighing out the potential benefits of these properties are are not from Part City so I just want to know which one will being serviced at all and what might lead to similar circumstances in the future but if that's the only one I have less of concern so thanks for that clarification a lot of road though yeah so what are we going to do to that road staff
coms yeah and and I'm going to encourage the Planning Commission and Council and I want so I'm curring myself I think we need a strategy given its Genesis you know is this do we give people the expectation that we're gonna that we're going to do this or that we're not going to do this right so you've invested in the process thank you for being a willing participant and a helpful participant thank you and appreciate the public uh public hearing comments but I'm not sure that we're clear you know the two Parcels that are zoned RM have had some special circumstances associated with them and so we we should try to clear up our strategy on Planning and Zoning uh planning our town as to is RM a special circumstance thing or is this something that proponents can expect to achieve and maybe where they're inded to if they want to give some input of what they can and can't design with them help us right the might be sure Frank will'll invite you to talk talk to us at the same time about how how we can mitigate the impact okay thank you Nathan right I got it I'll start with a different one um there is a little bit so you did just getting it on the record again Ash County Council said we fine with this island yes cool um I think more thaned um it's about 660 ft of road that weing yes that's just the portion that keeps it from being a peninsula you're going to pick up the roadway in front of this parcel so it's more correct right right the 660 feet is the additional it's a total of 13 right both sides the whole right away ask the question again I'm I'm G to pull it that yeah looks like it is um does the city currently service any properties to the east of 1500 West that are not annexed so essentially I'm looking at parcel here I'll pull up an aerial maybe that'll help any water anything essentially anything uh go further nor yeah parcel uh for example 0317 006 03049 006 03049 001 these currently do we know if we service any those or have with proper the first one to the south of if you'll zoom in Foxboro which is is 016 they currently have a water service that's the only one I know of oh wait I so I apologize it's not zoom in it's not one six it's the one above it 0 six Jenkins sorry about that okay we're taking and potential benefits weighing out the potential benefits of these properties are are not from Part City so I just want to know which one will being serviced at all and what might lead to similar circumstances in the future but if that's the only one I have less of concern so thanks for that clarification a lot of road though yeah so what are we going to do to that road staff
Tom we do have a couple of Master utilities through there this could help with the increase in the utility sizes so instead of the city having to pay for an entire 18inch water line which is through here we we could work with the developer and pay for the increase from a normal 8in water line to this 18inch water line so there could be some cost savings if we can get these util in there's a sewer line in there as well the the road itself just when we plow we don't and Steve can speak to this a little bit better it's not like we just lift our plows and just yeah put it back down it's uh Steve works really well with the county this very similar to like West South to the new got that does the County arrest or does the
Tom we do have a couple of Master utilities through there this could help with the increase in the utility sizes so instead of the city having to pay for an entire 18inch water line which is through here we we could work with the developer and pay for the increase from a normal 8in water line to this 18inch water line so there could be some cost savings if we can get these util in there's a sewer line in there as well the the road itself just when we plow we don't and Steve can speak to this a little bit better it's not like we just lift our plows and just yeah put it back down it's uh Steve works really well with the county this very similar to like West South to the new got that does the County arrest or does the
H justtin maybe the N point also the the two homes that exist there on the west side that it will be difficult to widen and improve that roadway without the city paying for it because they're not likely to subdivide so to make that a nice beautiful road all the way from their southern end to where we have a full width road we probably would have to expend some funds there if we want to make that happen kind similar yeah yeah well we I don't know about we didn't have to get into survey to know if we have the rideway with but just the cost of curbed gutter extra asphal sidewalk if we want likely that would be on our shoulders for those two lots the bottom one maybe which two Nel family and I think you're talking about those two so they're not likely to subdivide so you're probably going to have to put in the that could change but I don't see it happen they could somay we already an no no that's yeah yeah the RightWay but not the property property is not in Ni those two properties are not in nible curent this is County the the road is the right away for this is but I would trust a survey over that line I say even the Jim we're gonna own the road the right of way and I mean can we just plow it and say that's good enough plow the snow off and say that's good enough or when it falls apart and deteriorates it's going to be on us there's no development there to to to tear it up and re redo it so we going to do that is that the council's decision or are we going to get I see staff shaking their head saying yeah it'll probably be us is that right yeah un let he subdivides before if he subdivides before it completely falls apart it'll be fine but if it falls apart tomorrow be on us and um Engineers perspective on 1500 West current conditions I know that certain Vehicles can't drive on it because it can't handle weight I haven't looked at it that close yeah I I just got a lot it could be a expense I don't love it to to take that load and I think that we have taken care of a lot of County Roads for a long time that we don't own and uh other City down and it's just hard for me to St that sometimes so still lot of questions with this and it sounds like the order they want to go in that we're kind of moving them to with this ordinance is to do the top North ones first which is what theyi was kind of their plan Arts leg ones before getting to the one that is on 12 w which to me would be easier because it's right next and adjacent to our Properties or cities already in our properties already in our city yeah and we're skipping Z we're skipping it though so the 0013 and the 001 are right next to nly they next to road that they would help develop Etc right but it sounds like their intent is to start with Z10 and 011 which could work still on access to 12 but it's just a lot around but I don't but I understand why we have to do
H justtin maybe the N point also the the two homes that exist there on the west side that it will be difficult to widen and improve that roadway without the city paying for it because they're not likely to subdivide so to make that a nice beautiful road all the way from their southern end to where we have a full width road we probably would have to expend some funds there if we want to make that happen kind similar yeah yeah well we I don't know about we didn't have to get into survey to know if we have the rideway with but just the cost of curbed gutter extra asphal sidewalk if we want likely that would be on our shoulders for those two lots the bottom one maybe which two Nel family and I think you're talking about those two so they're not likely to subdivide so you're probably going to have to put in the that could change but I don't see it happen they could somay we already an no no that's yeah yeah the RightWay but not the property property is not in Ni those two properties are not in nible curent this is County the the road is the right away for this is but I would trust a survey over that line I say even the Jim we're gonna own the road the right of way and I mean can we just plow it and say that's good enough plow the snow off and say that's good enough or when it falls apart and deteriorates it's going to be on us there's no development there to to to tear it up and re redo it so we going to do that is that the council's decision or are we going to get I see staff shaking their head saying yeah it'll probably be us is that right yeah un let he subdivides before if he subdivides before it completely falls apart it'll be fine but if it falls apart tomorrow be on us and um Engineers perspective on 1500 West current conditions I know that certain Vehicles can't drive on it because it can't handle weight I haven't looked at it that close yeah I I just got a lot it could be a expense I don't love it to to take that load and I think that we have taken care of a lot of County Roads for a long time that we don't own and uh other City down and it's just hard for me to St that sometimes so still lot of questions with this and it sounds like the order they want to go in that we're kind of moving them to with this ordinance is to do the top North ones first which is what theyi was kind of their plan Arts leg ones before getting to the one that is on 12 w which to me would be easier because it's right next and adjacent to our Properties or cities already in our properties already in our city yeah and we're skipping Z we're skipping it though so the 0013 and the 001 are right next to nly they next to road that they would help develop Etc right but it sounds like their intent is to start with Z10 and 011 which could work still on access to 12 but it's just a lot around but I don't but I understand why we have to do
it yeah I mean was the county only okay with it if we took that road in even though collectively those properties connect to us and still make the peninsula if we came in to the BL us like was it very contingent upon that road being also yeah and Tom I mean you can either speak to it or hand it to me if I want it was expressed that they they didn't want to do it unless we maintained the road and we came together and determined that that ownership M maintaining and maintaining the whole Road not half the road they didn't want to agree to it until until that was agreed to from the city it's kind of like they wised up on the error on 8th West where they let cities annexed right up to the RightWay of eight West and then the county own the Road between cities with cities on all sides and H of that road Y and they have to make it and I don't know it it it would be interesting maybe in a second reading or something to understand understand how you know what kind of expense and we I don't I don't want to spend the money to go do a full engineering survey of the road but maybe ask if one's been done yeah I mean see what kind of liability the city is subjecting its citizens to by accepting that road the 1500 West Ro yeah knowing that OD as staff mentioned those properties not not coming ontime soon no we don't so right and I mean we do know that 1500 West Truck traffic is pro to buy the county because they say correct it's not in enough shape and with these developments my guess is that Ro's going to be used especially with the some it seems I mean that's a possibility I think your what you're saying is okay so we don't have the developer do anything on 1500 next to their property and 1500 is just sitting out there even though we have we own the right of way and everything in this devel comes off of to West seems like a hard thing to do like sub ask for first reading I forgot that thank you motional is to wave second so substitute is to pass for first reading with same with same so just just the only change and we have a second on substitute motion so we will debate The Substitute motion so if if the county says assist and else would you just no I want this I think it's great have concerns about yeah the conditions from the county and citizens of assuming that cost risk the liability of the road that is going to get built by the never what Alterna just say is this is a legislative action to anex property one of the reasons notex property because it puts the citizens that live inbody out a liability to have to develop a bunch of infrastruct I mean I guess one thing between the two would be if staff wanted to chat with proponents about handling 0011 0013 with this petition figuring out the rest with z00 and at a later time yeah so handle the East properties and come at it from 12 so you're are you suggesting that only those properties would Annex or or only or okay yeah in order to do that we would have to start this whole process over again but and that you know they would have to they would have to apply for that like the proponent would have to they would need to want to do that and and make an application and yeah and the notice is right the whole yeah the whole the whole thing all the way from square one they have been working on this for how many months five months you can come no it's okay proponent you get to talk to us from County if you want to stick it to County foringer and then just anex the center line of the road you don't need the Count's approval in the reason why the county gets to look at this because leav Peninsula or an island as soon as you force Jims all are in you can ask Cent line of the road and force the county to maintain the west side of the road as I would suggest doing that because I B but that's no solution um a coule the one advantage of theity syst is all other par that you're mening cannot access your road without Mission if they ever want to build a shed or something else to accesses your Ro to say to allow about your portion so to say it's never going to it does put you control the tire right in it where if you to the center then they can go to the county put up a shed storage sheds whatever the county allows to come in on the county side of the city not in charge of what happens on the west so there's some give and take there and I'm not trying to tell you which way to do it but that's the advantage the city would have yes you pick up the liability of have to maintain it and take care of it but then you also pick up the legal power to restrict what they can do to access your road very similar to UD do does if you try hooking up to a UD Road hey you want to put a shed in that's a change of use you now have to bring that up to UD standards you want to put a shed or a barn next while you're changing your access use you know and there's a lot more to explain but it does give you um
it yeah I mean was the county only okay with it if we took that road in even though collectively those properties connect to us and still make the peninsula if we came in to the BL us like was it very contingent upon that road being also yeah and Tom I mean you can either speak to it or hand it to me if I want it was expressed that they they didn't want to do it unless we maintained the road and we came together and determined that that ownership M maintaining and maintaining the whole Road not half the road they didn't want to agree to it until until that was agreed to from the city it's kind of like they wised up on the error on 8th West where they let cities annexed right up to the RightWay of eight West and then the county own the Road between cities with cities on all sides and H of that road Y and they have to make it and I don't know it it it would be interesting maybe in a second reading or something to understand understand how you know what kind of expense and we I don't I don't want to spend the money to go do a full engineering survey of the road but maybe ask if one's been done yeah I mean see what kind of liability the city is subjecting its citizens to by accepting that road the 1500 West Ro yeah knowing that OD as staff mentioned those properties not not coming ontime soon no we don't so right and I mean we do know that 1500 West Truck traffic is pro to buy the county because they say correct it's not in enough shape and with these developments my guess is that Ro's going to be used especially with the some it seems I mean that's a possibility I think your what you're saying is okay so we don't have the developer do anything on 1500 next to their property and 1500 is just sitting out there even though we have we own the right of way and everything in this devel comes off of to West seems like a hard thing to do like sub ask for first reading I forgot that thank you motional is to wave second so substitute is to pass for first reading with same with same so just just the only change and we have a second on substitute motion so we will debate The Substitute motion so if if the county says assist and else would you just no I want this I think it's great have concerns about yeah the conditions from the county and citizens of assuming that cost risk the liability of the road that is going to get built by the never what Alterna just say is this is a legislative action to anex property one of the reasons notex property because it puts the citizens that live inbody out a liability to have to develop a bunch of infrastruct I mean I guess one thing between the two would be if staff wanted to chat with proponents about handling 0011 0013 with this petition figuring out the rest with z00 and at a later time yeah so handle the East properties and come at it from 12 so you're are you suggesting that only those properties would Annex or or only or okay yeah in order to do that we would have to start this whole process over again but and that you know they would have to they would have to apply for that like the proponent would have to they would need to want to do that and and make an application and yeah and the notice is right the whole yeah the whole the whole thing all the way from square one they have been working on this for how many months five months you can come no it's okay proponent you get to talk to us from County if you want to stick it to County foringer and then just anex the center line of the road you don't need the Count's approval in the reason why the county gets to look at this because leav Peninsula or an island as soon as you force Jims all are in you can ask Cent line of the road and force the county to maintain the west side of the road as I would suggest doing that because I B but that's no solution um a coule the one advantage of theity syst is all other par that you're mening cannot access your road without Mission if they ever want to build a shed or something else to accesses your Ro to say to allow about your portion so to say it's never going to it does put you control the tire right in it where if you to the center then they can go to the county put up a shed storage sheds whatever the county allows to come in on the county side of the city not in charge of what happens on the west so there's some give and take there and I'm not trying to tell you which way to do it but that's the advantage the city would have yes you pick up the liability of have to maintain it and take care of it but then you also pick up the legal power to restrict what they can do to access your road very similar to UD do does if you try hooking up to a UD Road hey you want to put a shed in that's a change of use you now have to bring that up to UD standards you want to put a shed or a barn next while you're changing your access use you know and there's a lot more to explain but it does give you um
I so if the traffic study that you do comes up and saying it's a f because of this road you can't or we can't do it because of that will you help bring the road up to so I I guess just to State your question part of my development my property creates lower than e service level on that well one you just deny my an property so I have the option at that point two or not my guess would be the city at that point because that's the only way if it comes up that and if you want to go back a little bit since I finally got up here and started talking um I've worked in a lot of cities I'm more than willing to come sit down with staff and look at multif Family Code um like I said I've worked all the way up from Rexburg Idaho falls down cross the I've seen a lot of multif family codes I've worked with a lot of help rights some so I'm down any other questions from me are are we are we being clear about our hesitation on the liability of that road oh yeah okay I mean if you want to see a disaster Road as mention 800 West yeah we improve another municipality participate really tough and so that's from the County's point of view that's what they're trying to avoid here but if you want to like I said beginning you want to stick at the county force anex and then you don't have to get their approval to Annex anymore because you don't have an island or an un Incorporated area so you're going to have to build road on the on 1500 West 15 on on your western boundary there on parcel whatever it is 10 but is there I mean I'm not even getting the engineering steps in order right but is there some way that you can help relieve our liability of the by building Road or something between some negotiation with staff really part with that and Tom will tell you you can City can only improve property they own right yeah and so I can't go in and take a full Road ride away from Mr Zinger because it's still his personal property so to go in and put a full 66 Foot Road rideway in there like the city wants I can't physically I can't do that without purchasing property for Mr own wa the annexation proposal is that we would own that ride of way right so can you work in our ride of way any anything that is City's property I can you can have me do whatever you want whatever you want yes we can't force it right unless you're developing it Tom so there is a county platted 66 foot right it's four rods all the way up to 1500 West originally when I first looked at it looked like a 40 foot but um Matt Phillips from the corrected me and that that's all the way through city is going to own that if we Annex this the there is there's been those were all tied to section Corners Etc and over the years some of people have gotten record of survey that didn't quite honor that pled RightWay and so they've encroached over the years so even though we know we own it or at least the right way he belongs to us there might be some fight with some of the encroachment there back to that um we'd be willing to help those cost if the city's willing to put up a pionering agreement so when and if the other people develop we get reimbursed that's the word yeah uh I'll offer some suggestions between first and second maybe so W be looking into the index on the owners of the property in the north the 009 if they were to be fored as far as tax including motion now get some qualitative comments as monetary um the second would be to uh discuss what's being discussed now I guess this verifying we annexed it all um what right the city have to build a road and is there a development agreement or something we work out pioneering Etc this prop so they can do what they want to do and I don't necessarily want to stick it to the county but um no but um if they want to not be in the situations they've been in the past think that they need to uh help May resolve some of the issues with any RightWay Etc if we want to take care of the roads they're not going to do the whole Road or do a half split with us then they need to help make sure that we have the proper right Etc so I guess just talk to the C second but even if we drag Jim's Aller property in if he doesn't develop we're GNA build them because it falls apart and people we own the road we own the road way it's falling apart people need to get down to parts of p and it's just impossible but but why not just half why is the county insisting on both especially if we have people in the county above that so we devel half we'll develop a half Road that's the sest the last suggestion is hey County why a whole Road this guy has doesn't get doesn't get for so it has a lot also to do with utilities there's not really any mechanism going to go all the way 600 ft of utilities through through this road and so they don't have a mechanism so I fear that if we want to stick it to them that uh we are going to encounter some bigger issues with regard to restrictions placed on utilties and things where they could pass a countywide ordinance that says you cannot pass utilities through to connect gaps in I don't know they can get creative I've seen I've seen landfill laws that are very creative what was the plan what was the plan for utilities before we got coerced into looking at accepting this road adopting this road annexing this road what was the plan for utilities then there's not really any plan on paper yet but that's the most logical place to connect it it goes all the way down to that black L but if the hadn't forced us forced our hand on accepting ownership of that road west of the Jim allinger property there would have had to have been a plan at some point for utilities to get to these properties without using that road I'm not saying we have that plan or no what it would be we we do have master plan utilities they're very large coming in 1500 West they also go down to four 4,000 South which which currently is a county road as well yeah maybe I'm sorry I forgot your name Dan Dan I'll ask you I mean if the county has okay go ahead take the road not in this case you the County's got a very valid concern they want me nibbly City SE Earth down their County Road and so they're very wise and say no you got to take the road ex Logan City has be putting water and sewer down just the west side of 800 West because it's it's Logan City side the nib or mville side doesn't have any Logan Utilities in it so that's kind of how it plays back and so your plan was to put Utilities in the county righto right and that's what brought this up is hey okay we've got to come to an agreement what to do with the roadway there we got to add Utilities in it well I feel a little better about the county but I also think the county know knows that road is a a POS somebody's going to have to fix it be big p sewer and was probably orip dirt at one time just D stuff on it umic is that you as City Engine do notties are quite extra plan if we run it we might end up with a brand new new why it's taking so long to get to this for now 15 and knowing how the sewer works I don't know the South one sewers without I know the first one the 11 I believe that one will sewer in water but I think you're running short on depth and you're to is to yeah to to adopt for first reading and r2a we ready to vote any opposition saying none those in favor of adopting the first reading please say I I any oppos none clar as mud for staff and Dan it's it's tough I'm sorry it's tough I you uh you guys good to press on okay let's do it public hearing we'll get ready for public hearing increasing m city water rates thank
I so if the traffic study that you do comes up and saying it's a f because of this road you can't or we can't do it because of that will you help bring the road up to so I I guess just to State your question part of my development my property creates lower than e service level on that well one you just deny my an property so I have the option at that point two or not my guess would be the city at that point because that's the only way if it comes up that and if you want to go back a little bit since I finally got up here and started talking um I've worked in a lot of cities I'm more than willing to come sit down with staff and look at multif Family Code um like I said I've worked all the way up from Rexburg Idaho falls down cross the I've seen a lot of multif family codes I've worked with a lot of help rights some so I'm down any other questions from me are are we are we being clear about our hesitation on the liability of that road oh yeah okay I mean if you want to see a disaster Road as mention 800 West yeah we improve another municipality participate really tough and so that's from the County's point of view that's what they're trying to avoid here but if you want to like I said beginning you want to stick at the county force anex and then you don't have to get their approval to Annex anymore because you don't have an island or an un Incorporated area so you're going to have to build road on the on 1500 West 15 on on your western boundary there on parcel whatever it is 10 but is there I mean I'm not even getting the engineering steps in order right but is there some way that you can help relieve our liability of the by building Road or something between some negotiation with staff really part with that and Tom will tell you you can City can only improve property they own right yeah and so I can't go in and take a full Road ride away from Mr Zinger because it's still his personal property so to go in and put a full 66 Foot Road rideway in there like the city wants I can't physically I can't do that without purchasing property for Mr own wa the annexation proposal is that we would own that ride of way right so can you work in our ride of way any anything that is City's property I can you can have me do whatever you want whatever you want yes we can't force it right unless you're developing it Tom so there is a county platted 66 foot right it's four rods all the way up to 1500 West originally when I first looked at it looked like a 40 foot but um Matt Phillips from the corrected me and that that's all the way through city is going to own that if we Annex this the there is there's been those were all tied to section Corners Etc and over the years some of people have gotten record of survey that didn't quite honor that pled RightWay and so they've encroached over the years so even though we know we own it or at least the right way he belongs to us there might be some fight with some of the encroachment there back to that um we'd be willing to help those cost if the city's willing to put up a pionering agreement so when and if the other people develop we get reimbursed that's the word yeah uh I'll offer some suggestions between first and second maybe so W be looking into the index on the owners of the property in the north the 009 if they were to be fored as far as tax including motion now get some qualitative comments as monetary um the second would be to uh discuss what's being discussed now I guess this verifying we annexed it all um what right the city have to build a road and is there a development agreement or something we work out pioneering Etc this prop so they can do what they want to do and I don't necessarily want to stick it to the county but um no but um if they want to not be in the situations they've been in the past think that they need to uh help May resolve some of the issues with any RightWay Etc if we want to take care of the roads they're not going to do the whole Road or do a half split with us then they need to help make sure that we have the proper right Etc so I guess just talk to the C second but even if we drag Jim's Aller property in if he doesn't develop we're GNA build them because it falls apart and people we own the road we own the road way it's falling apart people need to get down to parts of p and it's just impossible but but why not just half why is the county insisting on both especially if we have people in the county above that so we devel half we'll develop a half Road that's the sest the last suggestion is hey County why a whole Road this guy has doesn't get doesn't get for so it has a lot also to do with utilities there's not really any mechanism going to go all the way 600 ft of utilities through through this road and so they don't have a mechanism so I fear that if we want to stick it to them that uh we are going to encounter some bigger issues with regard to restrictions placed on utilties and things where they could pass a countywide ordinance that says you cannot pass utilities through to connect gaps in I don't know they can get creative I've seen I've seen landfill laws that are very creative what was the plan what was the plan for utilities before we got coerced into looking at accepting this road adopting this road annexing this road what was the plan for utilities then there's not really any plan on paper yet but that's the most logical place to connect it it goes all the way down to that black L but if the hadn't forced us forced our hand on accepting ownership of that road west of the Jim allinger property there would have had to have been a plan at some point for utilities to get to these properties without using that road I'm not saying we have that plan or no what it would be we we do have master plan utilities they're very large coming in 1500 West they also go down to four 4,000 South which which currently is a county road as well yeah maybe I'm sorry I forgot your name Dan Dan I'll ask you I mean if the county has okay go ahead take the road not in this case you the County's got a very valid concern they want me nibbly City SE Earth down their County Road and so they're very wise and say no you got to take the road ex Logan City has be putting water and sewer down just the west side of 800 West because it's it's Logan City side the nib or mville side doesn't have any Logan Utilities in it so that's kind of how it plays back and so your plan was to put Utilities in the county righto right and that's what brought this up is hey okay we've got to come to an agreement what to do with the roadway there we got to add Utilities in it well I feel a little better about the county but I also think the county know knows that road is a a POS somebody's going to have to fix it be big p sewer and was probably orip dirt at one time just D stuff on it umic is that you as City Engine do notties are quite extra plan if we run it we might end up with a brand new new why it's taking so long to get to this for now 15 and knowing how the sewer works I don't know the South one sewers without I know the first one the 11 I believe that one will sewer in water but I think you're running short on depth and you're to is to yeah to to adopt for first reading and r2a we ready to vote any opposition saying none those in favor of adopting the first reading please say I I any oppos none clar as mud for staff and Dan it's it's tough I'm sorry it's tough I you uh you guys good to press on okay let's do it public hearing we'll get ready for public hearing increasing m city water rates thank
you second is what 16 this one maybe all right thank you so this is a discussion we've been having for quite some time about what to do with the nibbly city water rate we have a capital project coming up that need to drill a new well to be able to supply water to meet state requirements for Source capacity and so uh staff and I have been reviewing this we've been speaking with uh advisers trying to figure out the best thing to do and what to do and as part of that we really need to look at the the water rate and the water rate has not been really adjusted since about 2005 in 2005 base rate was changed to 250 and the usage was 90 cents per thousand gallons in 2020 we restructured the rate but we didn't really increase the rate we restructured created a base rate of 1,550 and included 5,000 gallons in that base rate but then the new thing was the added tiers and then the range from dollar to 25 a125 per thousand gallons in those ranges so it was restructured but it wasn't necessarily increased to uh bring in any more Revenue than what was being brought in before was kind of how it was designed so you know how does that work where inflation and the economy and how things are working I I this makes more sense to me to look at the lower chart in 2005 when that rate was first adopted at $1050 $1,000 was $1,000 and today we can only get about $600 worth of uh supplies materials anything the buying power is only about $600 so we've lost a lot of buying power with that rate now You' think that that would sync the ship and we wouldn't be able to continue but what compensates for that is growth in the city so as growth happens you're able to hold that rate down because back in 2005 there was 588 homes paying into the system now there's about 2,300 homes paying into this system and so at some point there's kind of this break point where you start losing money in the system and things start to go south and we aren't necessarily quite at that break point where things are looking Bleak and horrible that uh we need to do this massive restructure but it is clear that we do need to raise the rate in as we've looked at this and as we've analyzed it and really what has changed over those years and what is costing us more money is is first and foremost salaries you guys have been well aware of the adjustments that have had to been made over the last few years to keep up with inflation cost of living I think we were up around 14 percent a few years ago then we did a 9% and so really salaries have been a big part in trying to make sure we take care of and maintain and keep good quality employees here at nibble City and really just try to keep up with inflation so that's really the big one and also the last bullet item the administrative transfers is a way to take money out of the Enterprise funds which are storm water water and sewer to pay for things in the general fund things like uh my salary things like the Public Works director's salary people that are paid out of the general fund but support and provide services to those Enterprise funds and so a big I I'll show you breakdown of the administrative transfers but really a big part of the administrative transfers is is the salary increases the other one is just water meters and water meters are important to make sure we take care of and maintain because that literally is the source of our income if our meters aren't operating properly and telling us how much people are using then we don't Bill properly and we lose money and so we've made a concerted effort over the last few years to try to make sure we're taking care of those water meters getting them repaired getting them fixed getting them replaced as they needed to and also they're just those have just gone up so much from where we were a few years ago some of the technology has improved that's made the components easier to to well actually the components are simpler but so they've made it so that you can't peace Mill meters together anymore you can't buy a part that's broke it's one unit now and I believe those are running around around uh 400 bucks if I remember correctly where a few years ago they were closer to 250 and so they really have just gone up the other thing that's gone up quite a bit in uh substantially is the water share assessments ni Blacksmith Fork has really gone up they're the the bulk of our water shares that we own and we pay I believe I should know this uh I shouldn't even I I can't remember all time but anyway that's that they've really jacked that price up over the last few years so this is a detailed breakdown of the operational cost for the water department you can see along the right the increase since two fiscal year 1819 and on the bottom there you can see about 42% growth or not even growth but just increasing cost to our operations of the water department I wanted to just just point this out real quick this is how we break out those administrative transfers we take everything out of general fund that helps associate utility managers envelopes City Hall uh used to be but we've paid that off so that's not a good uh a good one to say but you know insurance and and just really things out of the general fund so we take a lot of money out of our Enterprise funds to cover those costs because those costs are paid out of general fund but they really are supporting those those departments so this is how it's broke down if you're interested I can go over that more Det detail later so again inflation has is really hurting us growth has helped us but we're still a little bit out we have to new some big projects coming up I've already mentioned the well as we think about as we try to plan the well some of the key things they look for are the debt coverage ratio which means per your rate how much revenue are you bringing in compared to what your expenses are and making sure that you have enough Revenue to cover your expenses plus their Debt Service they really look at how much the debt service will be they also look at how many days cash on hand you have and they try to formulate this plan of if you qualify and should be if your rate is structured such that you should qualify for these loans and be able to to get this help building these projects so those are the things we looked at the other component that do those big projects is impact fees and we want to make sure we're always staying on top of those impact fees and doing everything we can to make sure that the the impacts there are covered in those fees right now as you look at the way the engineering calculations fall out and the with the population that we have not all of the new well should be covered by impact we are we are deficient just about 25% and what what that really means is that that the rate really needs to help pay for the weld we can't cover it with just impact fees following state laws and doing the things that we should we're behind so the rate should help pay for that not just impact fees sorry for repeating I number the other thing we got going is three to five years we have we're playing catch up a little bit on some projects we have some projects that we'd like to get done about 3/4 of a million dollars in upsizing development lines is a big one you know we just talked about the annexation area and how we got to get water lines through that area but because of all the growth and the things going on there's a lot of water that's got to move through that area to get to other areas of the city and so there's there's a big chunk if you notice I underlined the word other that used to say minor when I brought this to you last week as we looked at it today we were were a little shocked at the cost it's going to be just to upsize those water lines and so there are some there are some other projects and things that we want to do to really boost our systems capabilities and redundancy and make sure we got the pressures and the flows that we need to have and the state would like us to have the other things coming up are once we kind of get some of those in place especially the new Well we'd really like to look at the master plan once we got the master plan really nailed down we've had a lot of Staff change over since the last master plan and if change Minds change opinions change on what the right thing to do is and there's a million different ways to skin a cat so you'll notice in this next year's budget I have proposed a fair amount of money to do a really good master plan I feel like we got a good staff here I've kind of joked with these guys we're going to redo this master plan there's going to be a page that we're gonna like seal with everyone's blood we're gonna prick their thumb and make them put their fingerprint in this thing so we don't change our mind and try to drift from what we we've plann and so but that's so critical because then we can look at and we can calculate those impact fees and keep them where they need to be and and appropriate to cover the costs that we need to so uh I'm I'm not going to hit this too hard I showed you guys this last time but this is just base rates across cash county is is a good comparison again every system is so unique that it's really it's hard hard to it's hard to say they should be equal they're never Apples to Apples but just to give you a feel for what people across cash County are charging and usage across cash C is all over the place it really is dependent upon where you're at and there's particular place here's some base rates across the state substantially higher than cash value if you'll notice most cases these are double these are on the higher end I I tried to find some of the higher ones just to give you an idea but the highest one parks City loved it the average citizen in nibbi minimum a month would be paid about 90 bucks a month in the winter time per Park Cities rate so it's pretty high so those are just fun little facts so little bit of about the water rate the water rate's broken into two parts there's a base rate and a usage fee base rate everybody pays if you drink one cup of water you're going to pay this base rate usage is depending on your usage how more you use the more you pay there's a tiered structure set up as required by the state of Utah right now where as you move up in the tiers and you use more water the tier values of cost in each tier go up so how do you what's the right way to balance this do you want to Jack the base rate do you want to Jack the usage and really depending on what you do really it impacts different people in different ways and and we'll probably I'll get into that a little a little more but as I kind of explained this last time you guys indicated well I'm sorry let me back up with the base rate it's important the nice thing about a base rate is it's charged every month and it's it's it's guaranteed income it's easy to plan it's easy to budget industry experts recommend that you have 40 to 60% of your operating expenses should come from your base rate currently we are just over 30% income from our base rate so our base rate needs to go up if we want to stay in compliance with those industry recommendations and so when I came to you guys last time I I said that and I said we you know kind of looked at a minimal increase in the usage fee you guys said hey let's look at a little higher and so that's what we did we went back and analyzed three different scenarios kind of a low medium high just to keep it easy the low was what you guys saw the first time and then I I actually tried to go to a medium but when I put the numbers in it was really high so I backed that off and kind of settled on the medium and what that means to the end user is about a 10 to 177% increase in their fee now I will cave out this with water rates are really hard to project because it is it's largely not completely but largely dependent on that usage so one year you might have a heavy use year that's really dry and people are really water the next year you might have a really wet year and people don't sprinkle as much and so these are it's really variable it's kind of crystal ball stuff you're taking some major assumptions and making some major guesses but as I did that and did the best I could to try to piece that out this is what those different scenarios that were analyzed will show you and so if you'll notice in the low one it was a higher the base rate was a little bit higher and it affects the low use people so people are using less water it's affecting them more in the end dollar value than the people who use a lot of water in the percentage situation what are the dollar numbers sorry I that's the tiers I should have had another column here so tier so the cross the top be the base rate the dollar five second row down in numbers would be tier one and there's yeah zero to I have to go to my model really quick I apologize the base R that's the top correct medium high changes on the usage that is correct okay I I didn't CH i i in the model I change I I increase I said we wanted to increase the base rate so jumping around and jumping ahead a little bit the for the base rate this is what we proposed a $2 increase the next fiscal year and then a dollar thereafter for five years up to 2250 and by the time we get to there we should be at around 55% of our Revenue coming in from the base rate when we get to 2030 so so I apologize it's a little it's a little confusing I got to jump around a little bit but I should have done a better job on this slide and we'll fix it for the next one but those are the different tiers so tier one two three and four so there's a just a bucket and as you use up your bucket then you move into the next tier and get charged that per thousand gallons so I will do a better job on that slide next time so as we did that staff kind of by staff I mean well staff we focus kind of in the middle and feel like that Medium tier adjustment really kind of balances out people in a percentage wise whether you're low user a high user in you're you're around a 12 to 15% increase in what you are paying with the current structure or usage yes it does include base it's base and usage sorry yeah it is base and usage so as we analyze and we look at this change to base yeah there's a $2 change next year and that is that those those numbers are just next year so the year after that they would be much smaller right because we're only jumping the base rate a dollar each year so the top row should say $2 on medium because that would be a $2 change for 15 yeah I think what I'll do is try to show both the base and the tier in this chart a little clearer so this these this is just the base rate adjustments and the vast majority of our base rates are 1 in because even tow houses even though many of them are served off of a 2in meter we charge them at base rate and Wendy kind of explained this earlier so each townhouse gets a base rate and then there's a Master Meter of 2 in and for each base rate that that meter serves they get 5,000 gallons this is super pain to kind of keep this all straight make sure it works but if you have eight tow houses on one 2in meter you get eight 1in base rates instead of one 2 in base rate so we got to make sure we keep all those clean that's how we charge them so my my point is really is that our bread and butter is a one inch it also includes three some older 3/4 inch but that's where the bulk of our services are is we bring in the one inch we do have our 2 inches are going up they're landscape meters for these HOAs and uh so they they do do pay a base rate and usage on those and as I was looking at some of the data it was interesting that most of the tow houses it was very rare that collectively they used more than the 5,000 gallons that they per unit that they were allotted it was very I we looked at seven or eight there were very few that actually use more than that now but that's because those are just culinary meters then that same HOA had landscape meter that was using a lot of water and I didn't have time to kind of match those up to be like what it would be for a townhouse and a yard uh I can show you I was going to remember this I can't remember because remind me to come back to the yards in a minute but I wanted to just this obviously you can't understand or see this but I just wanted to show you the level of detail we tried to go to to try to project and try to nail these numbers down this is all of our operating budget this is all of our expenses this is all of our re Vue our impact fees everything kind of goes into this Excel spreadsheet to try to model and predict what's going to happen in the future and how much money we need you kind of can see that green row as the day cash on hand it calculates your debt ratio to cover everything so I can pull that open and we can show you those if you want to get into the details of of messing with the model but just wanted to show you this isn't just this isn't just completely smoking mirrors we really tried to buckle down really tried to put the screws of this and get as close and his guest as good as we can so um happened go back okay I think to to update you where we're at I really wanted to get your head nod on that this is the direction that you would like us to go we've had a workshop we've had a first reading and I think what I'd like to do is for the next time we bring this back is do a little more advertising we obvious we had a public hearing coming we did advertise for a public hearing tonight but I would like to be a little more specific that hey we are discussing a water impact or excuse me a water rate adjustment this could impact you know people up to you know 10% I I can show you what that number is off top of my head I cannot remember what it is but I need to open that file and show you I want off off of memory it's about 50 bucks a year is that 10 to 15% yeah I think you had a slide said oh I did 50 bucks a year is is is the range that we're looking at so I I would just like to advertise that a little bit get that out there give people the opportunity to come in we'll have another public hearing next meeting unless you object to that but I just want to give people the opportunity we've hit this hard I don't know that the public is is well aware of it and I don't really want to surprise them but we are up against the clock we want to try to get this done separated a little bit from the truth and Taxation stuff if we need to get into that and so that would be my proposal is for you guys to tell me whether or not this is enough this is the right path and kind of advertise that 50 bucks a year for an average user sure we're gluttons for punishment yeah unless I and I completely open if you guys want to you guys want to post opponent you whatever you guys want to do I'm willing to do I I did forget to mention I'll have this way more polished for a second reading if we if we have it and we want to have a public hearing again but in the model we do still have to go obtain a loan we've mostly focused on going to the division of drinking water with the state of Utah they give the best rate they've got the least strings attached and I am proposing in this model to go borrow $3 million to construct the new well I think that's a little padded I think we could probably get away with two and a half million but I think I'm going to go in asking for three and then if we get bad bids back and things like that we can maybe knock it down to two and a half would only which only helps the model but I think going it's never fun to go back to the drinking water board to ask for more money so that's the second thing be aware of as we work through this discussion in the water rate that if you give us the green light we will be going to apply for a loan for $3 million okay um questions for Justin before we open the public hearing let's do public hearing who wants to talk about the cost of waterly you might get another chance if you were listening you anyone care to address us okay we'll close the public hearing thank you Justin okay and the other thing I forgot to mention was commercial and Industrial it's a little higher if you notice on that slide with the circled they're closer percentage wise to what an average resident would would pay but they're looking more in the few $100 as opposed to $50 so this commercial property would be paying about 600 bucks more this one was 750 this was uh 800 um actually that's the high one I didn't do all of them institutional as school and churches so schools will see you know what I apologize I have I have the medium one in my other spreadsheet I downloaded the older one to the box and then tweaked it so I don't have the exact numbers for the medium on here but it's about about 15 to 20% across these which was a apologize it's just it's more substantial dollars but the percentage was pretty close yeah the yards I mentioned this is just for education you know if you take the base rate times it by 12 months really should be what an average home will use in cooking cleaning washing all those things 5,000 gallons really should get you I have a family of seven I pretty rarely go over the 5,000 gallons for for what a month and so if you just kind of guess that most families should be doing that and just calculate their usage gives you an idea of how much people are paying to water their lawns each year and it's in the for 500 bucks this person here obviously has secondary water there was no usage 450 is pretty high 360 some of these smaller Lots on this uh 193 340 so there's kind of a range depending on how big your yard is and how much you water but people in nibbly generally are paying about 200 to 500 bucks to keep their lawn green all year you might as well just put our names on those next time yeah you guys you guys are the ones that keep bringing it up not have hopefully all that made sense we've tried really hard to really put the screws to this to you know justify the expense and justify the increase this isn't just smoke This Is Us projecting project s projecting needs we projected hiring another employee in a few years we projected the cost of Capital Improvements equipment and so I don't I don't know what else to do to be more accurate I think one of the things we'll have to explain is if we have to grow the system doing new well you know know increase the capacity of the system why aren't impact fees paying for that okay yeah and I can pull the the reality in my opinion of that is the impact fees should be covering them but the way the state calculates usage is so padded that it's the rate the payers are going to have to help pay for it the the how to explain this that the it's just not and maybe there's not a lot we can do about it because of the way the just compute impact EXA impact very compare impact fees at the same time and say yeah we need to do another impact fee study but I don't think we're small on impact fees in this town no we're just shy 4,000 bucks for water impact fee we can say well we do charge impact fees for new development look what other towns charge you know justify it that yeah it would be nice but we're already charging impact fees and we'll do another study yeah that's why master plan super critical soon as that's done we look at the impact fees but you're right I don't Envision us being able to Jack them very much higher than they are but I I didn't do a very good J I don't feel I will have a better explanation I I mentioned in the one slide that there's 25% really is being covered by the rate and 75 is being covered by impact fee so the bulk of the new well is being covered by impact the bulk of the payment for the $3 million loan will be covered by impact fees but not all of it and so it will there's some burden to be borne by the rate payers partially because uh number one if we don't keep up on those impact fees we could get behind but also you could argue there is some benefit with redundancy to the system for the existing users right now if we lost one of our wells we have three Wells and if we lost one we'd be scrambling like it's not the end of the world but we would be really on edge we would be scrambling we'd be running those things probably all day and all night we'd be watching them like a hawk until and we'd be under a lot of pressure to get the well back up and running whereas if we get this other well in there is a good amount of redundancy and it would back that way off so there's some benefit there oh help me out Tom any anything else benefit wise to the rate pair well it's I don't think anyone can deny that we looking at higher rates for water we're looking at higher rates for Wastewater treat we're looking at higher rates for 911 we're looking at higher rates to use the library looking at higher rates to uh empty our garbage cans I mean there are inflationary pressures at work yeah so the rate going up isn't just because of new growth and impact fees mitigate that but the fact is I sound just like other people that come in here asking for more money well things just cost more and I and I I feel really good about this getting us through the next five years but after that we might be looking at another bump in about five years because of development pressure with those upsizes and if we don't get our impact fees in place in time uh there's also where was I going with this
you second is what 16 this one maybe all right thank you so this is a discussion we've been having for quite some time about what to do with the nibbly city water rate we have a capital project coming up that need to drill a new well to be able to supply water to meet state requirements for Source capacity and so uh staff and I have been reviewing this we've been speaking with uh advisers trying to figure out the best thing to do and what to do and as part of that we really need to look at the the water rate and the water rate has not been really adjusted since about 2005 in 2005 base rate was changed to 250 and the usage was 90 cents per thousand gallons in 2020 we restructured the rate but we didn't really increase the rate we restructured created a base rate of 1,550 and included 5,000 gallons in that base rate but then the new thing was the added tiers and then the range from dollar to 25 a125 per thousand gallons in those ranges so it was restructured but it wasn't necessarily increased to uh bring in any more Revenue than what was being brought in before was kind of how it was designed so you know how does that work where inflation and the economy and how things are working I I this makes more sense to me to look at the lower chart in 2005 when that rate was first adopted at $1050 $1,000 was $1,000 and today we can only get about $600 worth of uh supplies materials anything the buying power is only about $600 so we've lost a lot of buying power with that rate now You' think that that would sync the ship and we wouldn't be able to continue but what compensates for that is growth in the city so as growth happens you're able to hold that rate down because back in 2005 there was 588 homes paying into the system now there's about 2,300 homes paying into this system and so at some point there's kind of this break point where you start losing money in the system and things start to go south and we aren't necessarily quite at that break point where things are looking Bleak and horrible that uh we need to do this massive restructure but it is clear that we do need to raise the rate in as we've looked at this and as we've analyzed it and really what has changed over those years and what is costing us more money is is first and foremost salaries you guys have been well aware of the adjustments that have had to been made over the last few years to keep up with inflation cost of living I think we were up around 14 percent a few years ago then we did a 9% and so really salaries have been a big part in trying to make sure we take care of and maintain and keep good quality employees here at nibble City and really just try to keep up with inflation so that's really the big one and also the last bullet item the administrative transfers is a way to take money out of the Enterprise funds which are storm water water and sewer to pay for things in the general fund things like uh my salary things like the Public Works director's salary people that are paid out of the general fund but support and provide services to those Enterprise funds and so a big I I'll show you breakdown of the administrative transfers but really a big part of the administrative transfers is is the salary increases the other one is just water meters and water meters are important to make sure we take care of and maintain because that literally is the source of our income if our meters aren't operating properly and telling us how much people are using then we don't Bill properly and we lose money and so we've made a concerted effort over the last few years to try to make sure we're taking care of those water meters getting them repaired getting them fixed getting them replaced as they needed to and also they're just those have just gone up so much from where we were a few years ago some of the technology has improved that's made the components easier to to well actually the components are simpler but so they've made it so that you can't peace Mill meters together anymore you can't buy a part that's broke it's one unit now and I believe those are running around around uh 400 bucks if I remember correctly where a few years ago they were closer to 250 and so they really have just gone up the other thing that's gone up quite a bit in uh substantially is the water share assessments ni Blacksmith Fork has really gone up they're the the bulk of our water shares that we own and we pay I believe I should know this uh I shouldn't even I I can't remember all time but anyway that's that they've really jacked that price up over the last few years so this is a detailed breakdown of the operational cost for the water department you can see along the right the increase since two fiscal year 1819 and on the bottom there you can see about 42% growth or not even growth but just increasing cost to our operations of the water department I wanted to just just point this out real quick this is how we break out those administrative transfers we take everything out of general fund that helps associate utility managers envelopes City Hall uh used to be but we've paid that off so that's not a good uh a good one to say but you know insurance and and just really things out of the general fund so we take a lot of money out of our Enterprise funds to cover those costs because those costs are paid out of general fund but they really are supporting those those departments so this is how it's broke down if you're interested I can go over that more Det detail later so again inflation has is really hurting us growth has helped us but we're still a little bit out we have to new some big projects coming up I've already mentioned the well as we think about as we try to plan the well some of the key things they look for are the debt coverage ratio which means per your rate how much revenue are you bringing in compared to what your expenses are and making sure that you have enough Revenue to cover your expenses plus their Debt Service they really look at how much the debt service will be they also look at how many days cash on hand you have and they try to formulate this plan of if you qualify and should be if your rate is structured such that you should qualify for these loans and be able to to get this help building these projects so those are the things we looked at the other component that do those big projects is impact fees and we want to make sure we're always staying on top of those impact fees and doing everything we can to make sure that the the impacts there are covered in those fees right now as you look at the way the engineering calculations fall out and the with the population that we have not all of the new well should be covered by impact we are we are deficient just about 25% and what what that really means is that that the rate really needs to help pay for the weld we can't cover it with just impact fees following state laws and doing the things that we should we're behind so the rate should help pay for that not just impact fees sorry for repeating I number the other thing we got going is three to five years we have we're playing catch up a little bit on some projects we have some projects that we'd like to get done about 3/4 of a million dollars in upsizing development lines is a big one you know we just talked about the annexation area and how we got to get water lines through that area but because of all the growth and the things going on there's a lot of water that's got to move through that area to get to other areas of the city and so there's there's a big chunk if you notice I underlined the word other that used to say minor when I brought this to you last week as we looked at it today we were were a little shocked at the cost it's going to be just to upsize those water lines and so there are some there are some other projects and things that we want to do to really boost our systems capabilities and redundancy and make sure we got the pressures and the flows that we need to have and the state would like us to have the other things coming up are once we kind of get some of those in place especially the new Well we'd really like to look at the master plan once we got the master plan really nailed down we've had a lot of Staff change over since the last master plan and if change Minds change opinions change on what the right thing to do is and there's a million different ways to skin a cat so you'll notice in this next year's budget I have proposed a fair amount of money to do a really good master plan I feel like we got a good staff here I've kind of joked with these guys we're going to redo this master plan there's going to be a page that we're gonna like seal with everyone's blood we're gonna prick their thumb and make them put their fingerprint in this thing so we don't change our mind and try to drift from what we we've plann and so but that's so critical because then we can look at and we can calculate those impact fees and keep them where they need to be and and appropriate to cover the costs that we need to so uh I'm I'm not going to hit this too hard I showed you guys this last time but this is just base rates across cash county is is a good comparison again every system is so unique that it's really it's hard hard to it's hard to say they should be equal they're never Apples to Apples but just to give you a feel for what people across cash County are charging and usage across cash C is all over the place it really is dependent upon where you're at and there's particular place here's some base rates across the state substantially higher than cash value if you'll notice most cases these are double these are on the higher end I I tried to find some of the higher ones just to give you an idea but the highest one parks City loved it the average citizen in nibbi minimum a month would be paid about 90 bucks a month in the winter time per Park Cities rate so it's pretty high so those are just fun little facts so little bit of about the water rate the water rate's broken into two parts there's a base rate and a usage fee base rate everybody pays if you drink one cup of water you're going to pay this base rate usage is depending on your usage how more you use the more you pay there's a tiered structure set up as required by the state of Utah right now where as you move up in the tiers and you use more water the tier values of cost in each tier go up so how do you what's the right way to balance this do you want to Jack the base rate do you want to Jack the usage and really depending on what you do really it impacts different people in different ways and and we'll probably I'll get into that a little a little more but as I kind of explained this last time you guys indicated well I'm sorry let me back up with the base rate it's important the nice thing about a base rate is it's charged every month and it's it's it's guaranteed income it's easy to plan it's easy to budget industry experts recommend that you have 40 to 60% of your operating expenses should come from your base rate currently we are just over 30% income from our base rate so our base rate needs to go up if we want to stay in compliance with those industry recommendations and so when I came to you guys last time I I said that and I said we you know kind of looked at a minimal increase in the usage fee you guys said hey let's look at a little higher and so that's what we did we went back and analyzed three different scenarios kind of a low medium high just to keep it easy the low was what you guys saw the first time and then I I actually tried to go to a medium but when I put the numbers in it was really high so I backed that off and kind of settled on the medium and what that means to the end user is about a 10 to 177% increase in their fee now I will cave out this with water rates are really hard to project because it is it's largely not completely but largely dependent on that usage so one year you might have a heavy use year that's really dry and people are really water the next year you might have a really wet year and people don't sprinkle as much and so these are it's really variable it's kind of crystal ball stuff you're taking some major assumptions and making some major guesses but as I did that and did the best I could to try to piece that out this is what those different scenarios that were analyzed will show you and so if you'll notice in the low one it was a higher the base rate was a little bit higher and it affects the low use people so people are using less water it's affecting them more in the end dollar value than the people who use a lot of water in the percentage situation what are the dollar numbers sorry I that's the tiers I should have had another column here so tier so the cross the top be the base rate the dollar five second row down in numbers would be tier one and there's yeah zero to I have to go to my model really quick I apologize the base R that's the top correct medium high changes on the usage that is correct okay I I didn't CH i i in the model I change I I increase I said we wanted to increase the base rate so jumping around and jumping ahead a little bit the for the base rate this is what we proposed a $2 increase the next fiscal year and then a dollar thereafter for five years up to 2250 and by the time we get to there we should be at around 55% of our Revenue coming in from the base rate when we get to 2030 so so I apologize it's a little it's a little confusing I got to jump around a little bit but I should have done a better job on this slide and we'll fix it for the next one but those are the different tiers so tier one two three and four so there's a just a bucket and as you use up your bucket then you move into the next tier and get charged that per thousand gallons so I will do a better job on that slide next time so as we did that staff kind of by staff I mean well staff we focus kind of in the middle and feel like that Medium tier adjustment really kind of balances out people in a percentage wise whether you're low user a high user in you're you're around a 12 to 15% increase in what you are paying with the current structure or usage yes it does include base it's base and usage sorry yeah it is base and usage so as we analyze and we look at this change to base yeah there's a $2 change next year and that is that those those numbers are just next year so the year after that they would be much smaller right because we're only jumping the base rate a dollar each year so the top row should say $2 on medium because that would be a $2 change for 15 yeah I think what I'll do is try to show both the base and the tier in this chart a little clearer so this these this is just the base rate adjustments and the vast majority of our base rates are 1 in because even tow houses even though many of them are served off of a 2in meter we charge them at base rate and Wendy kind of explained this earlier so each townhouse gets a base rate and then there's a Master Meter of 2 in and for each base rate that that meter serves they get 5,000 gallons this is super pain to kind of keep this all straight make sure it works but if you have eight tow houses on one 2in meter you get eight 1in base rates instead of one 2 in base rate so we got to make sure we keep all those clean that's how we charge them so my my point is really is that our bread and butter is a one inch it also includes three some older 3/4 inch but that's where the bulk of our services are is we bring in the one inch we do have our 2 inches are going up they're landscape meters for these HOAs and uh so they they do do pay a base rate and usage on those and as I was looking at some of the data it was interesting that most of the tow houses it was very rare that collectively they used more than the 5,000 gallons that they per unit that they were allotted it was very I we looked at seven or eight there were very few that actually use more than that now but that's because those are just culinary meters then that same HOA had landscape meter that was using a lot of water and I didn't have time to kind of match those up to be like what it would be for a townhouse and a yard uh I can show you I was going to remember this I can't remember because remind me to come back to the yards in a minute but I wanted to just this obviously you can't understand or see this but I just wanted to show you the level of detail we tried to go to to try to project and try to nail these numbers down this is all of our operating budget this is all of our expenses this is all of our re Vue our impact fees everything kind of goes into this Excel spreadsheet to try to model and predict what's going to happen in the future and how much money we need you kind of can see that green row as the day cash on hand it calculates your debt ratio to cover everything so I can pull that open and we can show you those if you want to get into the details of of messing with the model but just wanted to show you this isn't just this isn't just completely smoking mirrors we really tried to buckle down really tried to put the screws of this and get as close and his guest as good as we can so um happened go back okay I think to to update you where we're at I really wanted to get your head nod on that this is the direction that you would like us to go we've had a workshop we've had a first reading and I think what I'd like to do is for the next time we bring this back is do a little more advertising we obvious we had a public hearing coming we did advertise for a public hearing tonight but I would like to be a little more specific that hey we are discussing a water impact or excuse me a water rate adjustment this could impact you know people up to you know 10% I I can show you what that number is off top of my head I cannot remember what it is but I need to open that file and show you I want off off of memory it's about 50 bucks a year is that 10 to 15% yeah I think you had a slide said oh I did 50 bucks a year is is is the range that we're looking at so I I would just like to advertise that a little bit get that out there give people the opportunity to come in we'll have another public hearing next meeting unless you object to that but I just want to give people the opportunity we've hit this hard I don't know that the public is is well aware of it and I don't really want to surprise them but we are up against the clock we want to try to get this done separated a little bit from the truth and Taxation stuff if we need to get into that and so that would be my proposal is for you guys to tell me whether or not this is enough this is the right path and kind of advertise that 50 bucks a year for an average user sure we're gluttons for punishment yeah unless I and I completely open if you guys want to you guys want to post opponent you whatever you guys want to do I'm willing to do I I did forget to mention I'll have this way more polished for a second reading if we if we have it and we want to have a public hearing again but in the model we do still have to go obtain a loan we've mostly focused on going to the division of drinking water with the state of Utah they give the best rate they've got the least strings attached and I am proposing in this model to go borrow $3 million to construct the new well I think that's a little padded I think we could probably get away with two and a half million but I think I'm going to go in asking for three and then if we get bad bids back and things like that we can maybe knock it down to two and a half would only which only helps the model but I think going it's never fun to go back to the drinking water board to ask for more money so that's the second thing be aware of as we work through this discussion in the water rate that if you give us the green light we will be going to apply for a loan for $3 million okay um questions for Justin before we open the public hearing let's do public hearing who wants to talk about the cost of waterly you might get another chance if you were listening you anyone care to address us okay we'll close the public hearing thank you Justin okay and the other thing I forgot to mention was commercial and Industrial it's a little higher if you notice on that slide with the circled they're closer percentage wise to what an average resident would would pay but they're looking more in the few $100 as opposed to $50 so this commercial property would be paying about 600 bucks more this one was 750 this was uh 800 um actually that's the high one I didn't do all of them institutional as school and churches so schools will see you know what I apologize I have I have the medium one in my other spreadsheet I downloaded the older one to the box and then tweaked it so I don't have the exact numbers for the medium on here but it's about about 15 to 20% across these which was a apologize it's just it's more substantial dollars but the percentage was pretty close yeah the yards I mentioned this is just for education you know if you take the base rate times it by 12 months really should be what an average home will use in cooking cleaning washing all those things 5,000 gallons really should get you I have a family of seven I pretty rarely go over the 5,000 gallons for for what a month and so if you just kind of guess that most families should be doing that and just calculate their usage gives you an idea of how much people are paying to water their lawns each year and it's in the for 500 bucks this person here obviously has secondary water there was no usage 450 is pretty high 360 some of these smaller Lots on this uh 193 340 so there's kind of a range depending on how big your yard is and how much you water but people in nibbly generally are paying about 200 to 500 bucks to keep their lawn green all year you might as well just put our names on those next time yeah you guys you guys are the ones that keep bringing it up not have hopefully all that made sense we've tried really hard to really put the screws to this to you know justify the expense and justify the increase this isn't just smoke This Is Us projecting project s projecting needs we projected hiring another employee in a few years we projected the cost of Capital Improvements equipment and so I don't I don't know what else to do to be more accurate I think one of the things we'll have to explain is if we have to grow the system doing new well you know know increase the capacity of the system why aren't impact fees paying for that okay yeah and I can pull the the reality in my opinion of that is the impact fees should be covering them but the way the state calculates usage is so padded that it's the rate the payers are going to have to help pay for it the the how to explain this that the it's just not and maybe there's not a lot we can do about it because of the way the just compute impact EXA impact very compare impact fees at the same time and say yeah we need to do another impact fee study but I don't think we're small on impact fees in this town no we're just shy 4,000 bucks for water impact fee we can say well we do charge impact fees for new development look what other towns charge you know justify it that yeah it would be nice but we're already charging impact fees and we'll do another study yeah that's why master plan super critical soon as that's done we look at the impact fees but you're right I don't Envision us being able to Jack them very much higher than they are but I I didn't do a very good J I don't feel I will have a better explanation I I mentioned in the one slide that there's 25% really is being covered by the rate and 75 is being covered by impact fee so the bulk of the new well is being covered by impact the bulk of the payment for the $3 million loan will be covered by impact fees but not all of it and so it will there's some burden to be borne by the rate payers partially because uh number one if we don't keep up on those impact fees we could get behind but also you could argue there is some benefit with redundancy to the system for the existing users right now if we lost one of our wells we have three Wells and if we lost one we'd be scrambling like it's not the end of the world but we would be really on edge we would be scrambling we'd be running those things probably all day and all night we'd be watching them like a hawk until and we'd be under a lot of pressure to get the well back up and running whereas if we get this other well in there is a good amount of redundancy and it would back that way off so there's some benefit there oh help me out Tom any anything else benefit wise to the rate pair well it's I don't think anyone can deny that we looking at higher rates for water we're looking at higher rates for Wastewater treat we're looking at higher rates for 911 we're looking at higher rates to use the library looking at higher rates to uh empty our garbage cans I mean there are inflationary pressures at work yeah so the rate going up isn't just because of new growth and impact fees mitigate that but the fact is I sound just like other people that come in here asking for more money well things just cost more and I and I I feel really good about this getting us through the next five years but after that we might be looking at another bump in about five years because of development pressure with those upsizes and if we don't get our impact fees in place in time uh there's also where was I going with this
um our next Capital project is a tank and tanks are not cheap and so we also have no builtin reserve and replacement fund necessarily I've programmed in trying to spend about a million dollars in about 10 years on replacing but we have was it 4,000 feet 4,800 feet 44,000 44,000 sorry too many numbers going in my head lately for Budget season but 44,000 ft of what is called class pipe which is the precursor to the blue p PC that's used in the industry today it's a Britt pipe it doesn't last as long it's more susceptible to high pressure uh water hammer issues we've had some leaks we've been lucky but there's we have a fair amount of that that's going to be need to be replaced in the next 10 to 20 years probably so we need to figure that in pretty bismal long term you really want to nail it down so so we've tried to be as gentle as we can but really you know we need we we need to get this done for at least for the next five maybe 10 years we'll see other cities I think that's a good thing to show residents too because we pay quite B less than most of them we actually have pretty pretty nice Feats one question I have Justin so I'm on this mailing thing Smith Hardon there was quite a few changes to water yeah this year like FS yeah what's funny about that is the legislature said you know this year we're not going to do much with water no we can't so one of those I was reading through that specifically would address us because anyone with over 500s HB 274 and that had to do with you had to increase the conservation rate so that one great help it helps but part of the problem with water rat is you have to have this study done and you have to show that you need the the you need it for your expenses and there is there was a situation where there was it's Resort Community where they didn't have a lot of water and so they were really trying to incentivize you guys have got to cut back you got so they just just jacked the rate really high like really high and these people were you know trust fund hedge manager people with uh good friends that were lawyers and they sued the system and were it's I don't I don't know if it's done or where it was at and so but it challenged that your ability to just charge a big fee for conservation so this law was implemented by act well it was proposed and push what's the right word uh sponsored by Casey Snider our our representative and the bill basically kind of allows if I understand correctly allows more cushion for just jacking your rate for no other reason than conservation basically it had to hurt you had yeah move it up enough to promote conservation yeah and I believe it gives you tell 2027 to figure kind of those details out which is I was actually going to bring that up and forgot so there's a little window to figure that out I think people are really trying to iron out what exactly that means there was some discussion about you had to track it and had to use it specifically for conservation efforts so kind of like its own little fund so there's still some questions there to be answer yeah month or two no in a month or two no yeah now we're good for at least a few years and then maybe depending on how some of those answers shake out I don't anticipate it though being a huge problem but and we aren't to be perfectly honest I mean we're incentivizing conservation here but we're not swinging a hammer they want to save money cut back they can but we're this this race structure really isn't hitting them hard a dollar for 1,00 gallons of beautifully clean in a pip pressurized water to your house that's bucks yeah I'm surprised our top slow as they are have no problem guidance no they they do get up to the tier one really you want to try to cover yeah tier one I mean a little more than the base rate give people a little cushion and then after that whatever you want to do I didn't I I thought I thought a 15% increase was as much as people would stomach uh there was a bill that tried to discuss that and make Urban farming more possible but I'd have to look into where that ended I don't I forgot now most of any agriculture property in nibi has secondary water yeah all of them Morgan Farm yeah Morgan Farm all of our Parks well not every one of our Parks but a lot of our Parks have secondary water so there just isn't that much of it and the other reason not to Jack the higher tiers is because and and this is just Justin B speaking we don't have enough commercial and Industrial they're the bigger users to to really make a difference in the amount of Revenue we bring in they're big users and you penalize them a lot they're going to be paying out a bunch of money but that's doesn't move the needle very far in our overall Revenue because our bread and butter is the 1 in and the residential uses so we could make them all mad by jacking those higher tiers yeah yeah it's definitely Balan I think I started the last meeting by saying there is no one answer to this puzzle uh I saw an article that was interesting that uh you know we have four churches three schools but at least LDS Churches there was a big article about how they're dumping a ton of money into smart controllers uh they're getting behind conserving and that's something you know whatever we want to do to incentivize conservation if we want to have our own program a rebate program to conserve we could walk down that road our cons our conservation plan right now is to be honest it's basically education pamphlets and trying to educate yeah the cost yeah yes yeah there's also rip the strip stuff I know there's been a few residents taken advantage of that Rod's looking at doing that on a lot of our City properties in next year's budget so like I said we talk about conservation but we don't push it hard yeah yeah if you want to talk about in my opinion a great consu incentive is we use the that transporation rates off of this weather station out there and we adjust the tears based on what the actual water demand of the landscape was so now you have people that are overwatering because they're not adjusting their uh meters I mean sorry their the block on the wall that runs based on based on the time of year you could actually do a really good job cut down half your water rate if you just changed your clock based on the the day of the year August is different than April and then you B and then you change it based on weather so so so Citywide we have a variable tiered rate depending on what the actual EV transpiration demand was for that month Justin to explain that in the next I understand I understand what you're saying but the Dr the software we have we have a hard enough time putting the correct size meter and charging the correct base rate like I've been trying to iron that out for years like making sure everybody's paying the what they should be paying in the software and the system sounds simple but it it's it's more difficult than it sounds I kind of mentioned already we have to have different rates for 2inch meters that serve different amounts of units and it's complicated and it's messy and if you mess it up the first go it's hard to catch later you might miss out on 25 years of Base rate so anyway I hear what you're saying I don't have the technical capacity to do that I'd need some seriously upgraded software you might have to write it we already built the instrument to modify the but not the software to run my accounting program put it in me take pictures and S North facing east facing how much sun does it get each day forever put all the information in a minute figured out all my stuff does it get weather data into the controller yeah like if it rains or if it's forecasted rain it won't water it'll skip it yeah so I 35% look so great so I have a ratio and there's the r yeah people don't like to press their Landscapes we built these people don't like to press their Landscapes to a machine yeah I tried it as well and I I did I must not have put as much effort to that's a good question uh you could pass it for first reading or you could continue it and wave second reading next time but we we need to get this done that has a specific rate and you see change in it as you know but we can change that on SE yeah is there a second okay second motion to ad resolution for first reading uh any more discussion timing wise you know just so happens that we did a city newsletter on water and explained water bills and how to read them and what the rates were and bait and switch because like people will read that article and then go look at their bill and say that's not what the rate is that's up you you want you want to change the I mean the sooner the better but if you want to delay it six months and get through taxation first you can do that it's it's up to you but the sooner the better well I think we should definitely put the another public hearing together we we can tighten up the presentation you did a good job you showed the council how hard this is we we just tell people based on this and this and this here's here's what we need to do and and we'll continue to monit it and re-evaluate it as necessary further uh those in favor of adopting rree and scheduling another public hearing I'm that work yeah and I would it off I think we're down to council and staff reports please yes nor what do you have for people lady didn't have a car for two years we just gave her car guy that his truck down and say you me borrow my truck why yours gets fixed live such a great I bet that was gonna be the Opening Ceremonies and I I took it away from I a lot better um just anything that stood out to those about legisl impct us was it they got circled about Transportation utility fees didn't go through if there's anything that out OPC I think leag took care there something great but that was the one I was most interested in I plan on having a starting up some backyard meetings so can are interested just let me me sub citizens last just as the weather gets warmer I'll start this G so here should all right I actually had some notes 12 had a fun Street I had a conversation with a member of the fire department from H and I don't know why he says that he doesn't think there's it's possible for them to get a ladder truck in the Stone Bridge the way that it is is without going over driveable Ms which he said their code isn't allowed I asked him if he would write a letter referencing code or something us decisions based opinion and seem apprehensive some brought up I don't know if any has heard anything about lad he's concerned there fire they dispatch lad trucks presidential fires so and then yeah really can't so then and I want in Talent on that I want to thank them because they sent me a whole bunch of information shout out to them because I did have concerns on that I didn't understand shortening that per stuff I good answer questions me stuff helped understand that them thanks for being such a great Advocate to the city with the developers and helping them just understand code than so appreciate that and then uh also I wanted to express my appreciation for Justin and mayor and kin and the email kind of moning the direction and Me by um and anyone else who was involved in that I don't want to miss anybody uh I really appreciate you making that change and hearing some of our concerns and I feel like that will make it think it's better as a city less authoritative and more educational I had CTI in the city that told me last week cfor feel like moving towards a city H to live saying um but I appreciate that direction and just getting back quick on the library and different things we try to gather information so we can make decisions I appreciate that get stuff I wish they would have given us that number when we asked for we could comp the users it sound like so got for me uh not a lot just uh we we are going to kick off the general plan this week we I've started work with the consultant but we're going to have the official kickoff meeting there with the steering committee on Wednesday or I think I think it's one wednes yeah and we'll be setting up some one-on-one meetings with them as well while they in town so I'm probably going to be reaching out between now and tomorrow good to have a group discussion but sometimes it's good to have a one-on-one discussion as well so that's that's part of the scope and we'll we'll set some up with with steering committee members but all but others as well uh developers and uh citizens I mean this first go around will probably with the limited time we have is mostly steering committee members may maybe we'll get a couple of developers as well show and we'll show them around I'll show them around the town do a little got budget season got budget questions issues please come talk me happy to show you anything walk through anything but should be ready to have a draft to you guys early may but we're meeting with all the department heads now and going through everything hting hard so that's all I got I have some celebratory news we closed on some property for right away on 12 West 2600 South there I haven't seen all the Clos documents but I've been told that uh we recorded the the deed so it's in our name now and uh payments payments been made and signatures have been signed we're just trying to get all the papay together from there so that was a good relief I've had several conversations with the UDOT signals engineer for this area exchange some emails spent a lot of time out there and good thing is that she's listening I'm I'm instead of just relying on the data I'm expressing my observations of actually what's happening out there so I'll continue to observe and report back it's generating you know some conversation at least but I'm not so certain if they're going to change anything with regard to the the passive L versus protected L on the signal of 3200 South in the highway at least they're listening the gallon work with her Nam is aren Roy Lance she's just fantastic just a empathetic but her her her I I I asked her I go why can't we just do this passive left she's like it's because of speeds I go well people are taking these these lefts when it's red you know they're violating the red she's like well I I go they're going they're taking these chances someone's going to get hurt she goes well at least the signal didn't tell them to go and they get hurt like oh that's it's hard hard to argue but anyway we're continuing to do that uh the Ridgeline Park phase one to 2 way 2B thing is uh we're just ready to submit our Wetland permit next week so let start seeing progress from there I expect about 45 days to hear back from the Army Board and then hopefully we'll have some dialogue and a response and maybe be permitted by summer hopefully you construct in the fall it's also Grant season along with budget season we're applying for a couple grants for Parks mostly we've already got our road Cog money but we're looking at Phase 2B with the bik park Council gave me a head no last year to pursue this this Monday as it comes up we're looking at some improvements at Andrew Park and a couple of deals there so and nothing else left let's let's talk about so you did with the Andre Park that was with newor there's been two applications right you work to reconstruct and rehabilitate that ball field rats yep and bleachers and that's for Ander for some bleachers I also have a uor grant for the bike part part two of The Bike Park and rats and also app for that yeah the phases are to now s of just not confusing Grant applications and things I'm I'm continuing with the Ridgeline Park theme until we can get everything wrapped up yeah the name for a while just so you may see that but we all know it's nibble City Center Park so but I think what's not app so good for staff hey back game nothing Steve you want to talk to us 29:36 youah St half time 10:30 yeah uh me later tomorrow we have a with our thought budget kind of being way to them this year we've saved quite a quite a bit of money so with that money we pay uh got a every very heavy so plans are start at about 8,000 Poss get six so that's pretty exciting news
um our next Capital project is a tank and tanks are not cheap and so we also have no builtin reserve and replacement fund necessarily I've programmed in trying to spend about a million dollars in about 10 years on replacing but we have was it 4,000 feet 4,800 feet 44,000 44,000 sorry too many numbers going in my head lately for Budget season but 44,000 ft of what is called class pipe which is the precursor to the blue p PC that's used in the industry today it's a Britt pipe it doesn't last as long it's more susceptible to high pressure uh water hammer issues we've had some leaks we've been lucky but there's we have a fair amount of that that's going to be need to be replaced in the next 10 to 20 years probably so we need to figure that in pretty bismal long term you really want to nail it down so so we've tried to be as gentle as we can but really you know we need we we need to get this done for at least for the next five maybe 10 years we'll see other cities I think that's a good thing to show residents too because we pay quite B less than most of them we actually have pretty pretty nice Feats one question I have Justin so I'm on this mailing thing Smith Hardon there was quite a few changes to water yeah this year like FS yeah what's funny about that is the legislature said you know this year we're not going to do much with water no we can't so one of those I was reading through that specifically would address us because anyone with over 500s HB 274 and that had to do with you had to increase the conservation rate so that one great help it helps but part of the problem with water rat is you have to have this study done and you have to show that you need the the you need it for your expenses and there is there was a situation where there was it's Resort Community where they didn't have a lot of water and so they were really trying to incentivize you guys have got to cut back you got so they just just jacked the rate really high like really high and these people were you know trust fund hedge manager people with uh good friends that were lawyers and they sued the system and were it's I don't I don't know if it's done or where it was at and so but it challenged that your ability to just charge a big fee for conservation so this law was implemented by act well it was proposed and push what's the right word uh sponsored by Casey Snider our our representative and the bill basically kind of allows if I understand correctly allows more cushion for just jacking your rate for no other reason than conservation basically it had to hurt you had yeah move it up enough to promote conservation yeah and I believe it gives you tell 2027 to figure kind of those details out which is I was actually going to bring that up and forgot so there's a little window to figure that out I think people are really trying to iron out what exactly that means there was some discussion about you had to track it and had to use it specifically for conservation efforts so kind of like its own little fund so there's still some questions there to be answer yeah month or two no in a month or two no yeah now we're good for at least a few years and then maybe depending on how some of those answers shake out I don't anticipate it though being a huge problem but and we aren't to be perfectly honest I mean we're incentivizing conservation here but we're not swinging a hammer they want to save money cut back they can but we're this this race structure really isn't hitting them hard a dollar for 1,00 gallons of beautifully clean in a pip pressurized water to your house that's bucks yeah I'm surprised our top slow as they are have no problem guidance no they they do get up to the tier one really you want to try to cover yeah tier one I mean a little more than the base rate give people a little cushion and then after that whatever you want to do I didn't I I thought I thought a 15% increase was as much as people would stomach uh there was a bill that tried to discuss that and make Urban farming more possible but I'd have to look into where that ended I don't I forgot now most of any agriculture property in nibi has secondary water yeah all of them Morgan Farm yeah Morgan Farm all of our Parks well not every one of our Parks but a lot of our Parks have secondary water so there just isn't that much of it and the other reason not to Jack the higher tiers is because and and this is just Justin B speaking we don't have enough commercial and Industrial they're the bigger users to to really make a difference in the amount of Revenue we bring in they're big users and you penalize them a lot they're going to be paying out a bunch of money but that's doesn't move the needle very far in our overall Revenue because our bread and butter is the 1 in and the residential uses so we could make them all mad by jacking those higher tiers yeah yeah it's definitely Balan I think I started the last meeting by saying there is no one answer to this puzzle uh I saw an article that was interesting that uh you know we have four churches three schools but at least LDS Churches there was a big article about how they're dumping a ton of money into smart controllers uh they're getting behind conserving and that's something you know whatever we want to do to incentivize conservation if we want to have our own program a rebate program to conserve we could walk down that road our cons our conservation plan right now is to be honest it's basically education pamphlets and trying to educate yeah the cost yeah yes yeah there's also rip the strip stuff I know there's been a few residents taken advantage of that Rod's looking at doing that on a lot of our City properties in next year's budget so like I said we talk about conservation but we don't push it hard yeah yeah if you want to talk about in my opinion a great consu incentive is we use the that transporation rates off of this weather station out there and we adjust the tears based on what the actual water demand of the landscape was so now you have people that are overwatering because they're not adjusting their uh meters I mean sorry their the block on the wall that runs based on based on the time of year you could actually do a really good job cut down half your water rate if you just changed your clock based on the the day of the year August is different than April and then you B and then you change it based on weather so so so Citywide we have a variable tiered rate depending on what the actual EV transpiration demand was for that month Justin to explain that in the next I understand I understand what you're saying but the Dr the software we have we have a hard enough time putting the correct size meter and charging the correct base rate like I've been trying to iron that out for years like making sure everybody's paying the what they should be paying in the software and the system sounds simple but it it's it's more difficult than it sounds I kind of mentioned already we have to have different rates for 2inch meters that serve different amounts of units and it's complicated and it's messy and if you mess it up the first go it's hard to catch later you might miss out on 25 years of Base rate so anyway I hear what you're saying I don't have the technical capacity to do that I'd need some seriously upgraded software you might have to write it we already built the instrument to modify the but not the software to run my accounting program put it in me take pictures and S North facing east facing how much sun does it get each day forever put all the information in a minute figured out all my stuff does it get weather data into the controller yeah like if it rains or if it's forecasted rain it won't water it'll skip it yeah so I 35% look so great so I have a ratio and there's the r yeah people don't like to press their Landscapes we built these people don't like to press their Landscapes to a machine yeah I tried it as well and I I did I must not have put as much effort to that's a good question uh you could pass it for first reading or you could continue it and wave second reading next time but we we need to get this done that has a specific rate and you see change in it as you know but we can change that on SE yeah is there a second okay second motion to ad resolution for first reading uh any more discussion timing wise you know just so happens that we did a city newsletter on water and explained water bills and how to read them and what the rates were and bait and switch because like people will read that article and then go look at their bill and say that's not what the rate is that's up you you want you want to change the I mean the sooner the better but if you want to delay it six months and get through taxation first you can do that it's it's up to you but the sooner the better well I think we should definitely put the another public hearing together we we can tighten up the presentation you did a good job you showed the council how hard this is we we just tell people based on this and this and this here's here's what we need to do and and we'll continue to monit it and re-evaluate it as necessary further uh those in favor of adopting rree and scheduling another public hearing I'm that work yeah and I would it off I think we're down to council and staff reports please yes nor what do you have for people lady didn't have a car for two years we just gave her car guy that his truck down and say you me borrow my truck why yours gets fixed live such a great I bet that was gonna be the Opening Ceremonies and I I took it away from I a lot better um just anything that stood out to those about legisl impct us was it they got circled about Transportation utility fees didn't go through if there's anything that out OPC I think leag took care there something great but that was the one I was most interested in I plan on having a starting up some backyard meetings so can are interested just let me me sub citizens last just as the weather gets warmer I'll start this G so here should all right I actually had some notes 12 had a fun Street I had a conversation with a member of the fire department from H and I don't know why he says that he doesn't think there's it's possible for them to get a ladder truck in the Stone Bridge the way that it is is without going over driveable Ms which he said their code isn't allowed I asked him if he would write a letter referencing code or something us decisions based opinion and seem apprehensive some brought up I don't know if any has heard anything about lad he's concerned there fire they dispatch lad trucks presidential fires so and then yeah really can't so then and I want in Talent on that I want to thank them because they sent me a whole bunch of information shout out to them because I did have concerns on that I didn't understand shortening that per stuff I good answer questions me stuff helped understand that them thanks for being such a great Advocate to the city with the developers and helping them just understand code than so appreciate that and then uh also I wanted to express my appreciation for Justin and mayor and kin and the email kind of moning the direction and Me by um and anyone else who was involved in that I don't want to miss anybody uh I really appreciate you making that change and hearing some of our concerns and I feel like that will make it think it's better as a city less authoritative and more educational I had CTI in the city that told me last week cfor feel like moving towards a city H to live saying um but I appreciate that direction and just getting back quick on the library and different things we try to gather information so we can make decisions I appreciate that get stuff I wish they would have given us that number when we asked for we could comp the users it sound like so got for me uh not a lot just uh we we are going to kick off the general plan this week we I've started work with the consultant but we're going to have the official kickoff meeting there with the steering committee on Wednesday or I think I think it's one wednes yeah and we'll be setting up some one-on-one meetings with them as well while they in town so I'm probably going to be reaching out between now and tomorrow good to have a group discussion but sometimes it's good to have a one-on-one discussion as well so that's that's part of the scope and we'll we'll set some up with with steering committee members but all but others as well uh developers and uh citizens I mean this first go around will probably with the limited time we have is mostly steering committee members may maybe we'll get a couple of developers as well show and we'll show them around I'll show them around the town do a little got budget season got budget questions issues please come talk me happy to show you anything walk through anything but should be ready to have a draft to you guys early may but we're meeting with all the department heads now and going through everything hting hard so that's all I got I have some celebratory news we closed on some property for right away on 12 West 2600 South there I haven't seen all the Clos documents but I've been told that uh we recorded the the deed so it's in our name now and uh payments payments been made and signatures have been signed we're just trying to get all the papay together from there so that was a good relief I've had several conversations with the UDOT signals engineer for this area exchange some emails spent a lot of time out there and good thing is that she's listening I'm I'm instead of just relying on the data I'm expressing my observations of actually what's happening out there so I'll continue to observe and report back it's generating you know some conversation at least but I'm not so certain if they're going to change anything with regard to the the passive L versus protected L on the signal of 3200 South in the highway at least they're listening the gallon work with her Nam is aren Roy Lance she's just fantastic just a empathetic but her her her I I I asked her I go why can't we just do this passive left she's like it's because of speeds I go well people are taking these these lefts when it's red you know they're violating the red she's like well I I go they're going they're taking these chances someone's going to get hurt she goes well at least the signal didn't tell them to go and they get hurt like oh that's it's hard hard to argue but anyway we're continuing to do that uh the Ridgeline Park phase one to 2 way 2B thing is uh we're just ready to submit our Wetland permit next week so let start seeing progress from there I expect about 45 days to hear back from the Army Board and then hopefully we'll have some dialogue and a response and maybe be permitted by summer hopefully you construct in the fall it's also Grant season along with budget season we're applying for a couple grants for Parks mostly we've already got our road Cog money but we're looking at Phase 2B with the bik park Council gave me a head no last year to pursue this this Monday as it comes up we're looking at some improvements at Andrew Park and a couple of deals there so and nothing else left let's let's talk about so you did with the Andre Park that was with newor there's been two applications right you work to reconstruct and rehabilitate that ball field rats yep and bleachers and that's for Ander for some bleachers I also have a uor grant for the bike part part two of The Bike Park and rats and also app for that yeah the phases are to now s of just not confusing Grant applications and things I'm I'm continuing with the Ridgeline Park theme until we can get everything wrapped up yeah the name for a while just so you may see that but we all know it's nibble City Center Park so but I think what's not app so good for staff hey back game nothing Steve you want to talk to us 29:36 youah St half time 10:30 yeah uh me later tomorrow we have a with our thought budget kind of being way to them this year we've saved quite a quite a bit of money so with that money we pay uh got a every very heavy so plans are start at about 8,000 Poss get six so that's pretty exciting news
addition yeah um I guess my question to you guys as well what what do you want me to have prepared doing we can ask you you're here we can ask you catch you off guard we don't want you to prepare we want to we want to see the deer in the headlights be great day day uh if if you want Steve you know I I love you know the chance for the council to see what you guys do and we should put you on agenda for that instead of just ad hoc we should say hey let's do a public works pres presentation not to make it a dog and pony show and put a bunch of responsibility on you there but just to to show our appreciation do that ail will be to perfect Community through that week so yeah and we've got the sheriff coming in April to talk about a fee increase so I've had a lot
addition yeah um I guess my question to you guys as well what what do you want me to have prepared doing we can ask you you're here we can ask you catch you off guard we don't want you to prepare we want to we want to see the deer in the headlights be great day day uh if if you want Steve you know I I love you know the chance for the council to see what you guys do and we should put you on agenda for that instead of just ad hoc we should say hey let's do a public works pres presentation not to make it a dog and pony show and put a bunch of responsibility on you there but just to to show our appreciation do that ail will be to perfect Community through that week so yeah and we've got the sheriff coming in April to talk about a fee increase so I've had a lot
ofan always did think career days I've always thought it would be fun for us to do our own days take put down I just don't know how busy it would get I little guys Inspire it's pretty fun yeah get the little kids don't invite them they'll be in my way we did it over there school for the two days we did I think something like that would be fun to do something they do they do Rodeo they already do the allp that's actually qualifier for the state and then there's competition too there's actually a guy from Logan that's going to the Nationals a so he'll be out in Chicago also uh this is something it's kind of been D to myself and I and today
ofan always did think career days I've always thought it would be fun for us to do our own days take put down I just don't know how busy it would get I little guys Inspire it's pretty fun yeah get the little kids don't invite them they'll be in my way we did it over there school for the two days we did I think something like that would be fun to do something they do they do Rodeo they already do the allp that's actually qualifier for the state and then there's competition too there's actually a guy from Logan that's going to the Nationals a so he'll be out in Chicago also uh this is something it's kind of been D to myself and I and today
pwa AI standard cross the Valle rather than each City having their own so we've had two meetings now we do first standard on whates instruction standard instruction so we' had two meetings now everybody is really on board so we start our first uh offal meeting we over a standard be ail first Wednesday Ail on water so we'll see how it goes once we start our is we can bring everybody together and say why do you have to why yeah are there big differences youve there isig differences yeah we you know we we change you know we can compromise it reminds me of the Red Green Show and The posum Lodge o I'm a man but I can change if I have to I
pwa AI standard cross the Valle rather than each City having their own so we've had two meetings now we do first standard on whates instruction standard instruction so we' had two meetings now everybody is really on board so we start our first uh offal meeting we over a standard be ail first Wednesday Ail on water so we'll see how it goes once we start our is we can bring everybody together and say why do you have to why yeah are there big differences youve there isig differences yeah we you know we we change you know we can compromise it reminds me of the Red Green Show and The posum Lodge o I'm a man but I can change if I have to I
guess thank you Steve better what do you have for you're a great man thank you for everything you do on the Planning Commission and you know with City governance thanks thanks to all the Commissioners and thanks for hanging out with us tonight thank you if there's no objection we will adj saying none
guess thank you Steve better what do you have for you're a great man thank you for everything you do on the Planning Commission and you know with City governance thanks thanks to all the Commissioners and thanks for hanging out with us tonight thank you if there's no objection we will adj saying none