Nibley City Council- 05/01/2025

before mission statement of uh city is mission of new city water department is sustained excellence by providing clean safe drinking water to the community. Our goal is to maintain the utmost professionalism and dedication to energy and maintaining city's water infrastructure while fostering the collaborative and supportive work environment for all team members. Together, we strive to safeguard the health, well-being of our residents and continue to the overall growth and prosperity of the city. So, having said that, I'll just lay out a little bit of how we're structured. So, I've got it structured the Mondays are my day. So, I'm in charge Monday. And anything I've got on my dashboard, I come in, I've got the whole team at my fingertips. We go out, we take care of it. When Tuesday comes along, it's John. He's over all the water operations that I spoke before. So, he's in charge of the whole day. We work for him. Anything on his schedule, he puts us to work. We go. We're his team. We take care of it. Wednesdays come, same same idea. We got that for James Cleverly with Boy. And the benefit is the way we do this is everything gets its fair share cuz in a small city with a limited resources we can per say maybe a sewer get a little behind or maybe water on. So having these guys leading the pack and they take ownership in this is just phenomenal for Nibless City. if you've seen the benefits of it, it's it's doing well. So, come Thursday, we have Austin Campbell. He's in charge of all our wild techs. As I mentioned, cross connection stuff, back flame, Thursdays come and he puts us to work. Now there is days that things come up and we got to trade around and we make it work but this really builds the team that I have envisioned and these guys are topn they've all they're all veterans naturally is so small I've said this and I don't want to say this in the wrong way but water news water department nibi is too small demand for us to train new individuals without this structure. Now that we have this structure, as we grow and we get bigger, we're we've got the foundation to teach new up and coming operators in this industry. So that's how we're kind of structured that way. To start out with the dashboard here in front of us is just a snapshot of GIS and this is all the water lines that we have currently. We do have a couple 4 in water lines but most of our water lines are 6 in to 18 in main water lines and there's 63.6 miles of that city. So next time you hit your faucet, it might have ran pretty dizzy to get to you. So the next item got is valves. 941 valves in city. The way we've structured this, John's got it laid out is we're split them in half. So half of them get done one year, the other half the next year. That's just about maintenance. We do have some that are broke. We're aware of some older 12-in valves. They're on the list. We're projecting about 3 years to get them all replaced. That sounds bad, but they're broke open. It doesn't mess with any service. It's more of a headache for us. We got to shut something down. The negative would be impacting more citizens out of water, but it's a expensive endeavor with these 12-in valves and a lot of work. So, we've got a plan. and we've been working on those. As they come up, we put them on the list to fix and currently we have a leaking one that John's got planned for. So, we're going to be hit that up pretty soon. Fire hydrants, that's a big concept. Of course, a lot of fires we've had unfortunately, but we have been very fortunate in having water coming up. So, a couple years ago mentioned this, we were having a real struggle getting parts for some of these fires to all the legs. Currently, glad to say we've got all the hydrants up and working. And we do have some parts on the shelves. And the way we've split up these fire hydrants, we've done them in uh 25% of them a year. So, every four years, every hydrant's gone through top to bottom. Um, if we flush them and we grease them and they're all weld and things are good, we move on. But we do it this way because when we flush it, we're using a lot of water. So, it's a little easier not to flush them all in one year and use millions and millions of gallons of water. Plus, there's just so much to do when we repair it. And you'll see a slide in the few coming up here about just shows a little bit of us repairing a lot of parts and pieces and any of them we come across that need to be maintained. We get them up to brand new. It's good as new. So water meters, that's a big subject for the water department. It's a big cost for the city. We have, like it says here, 2224 water meters and growing. All of the new development, they're they're paying for their meters. They're paying for or their charges to come into the city. Of course, all the ones in the city have paid for them, but 15 to 25 years, we're finding meters are dying. Biggest reason is they are ran battery and so the register dies and then we've got to get in there, replace the register, some of the meters die, we got to replace the meter, so forth. Um, I haven't added it up exactly, but the city has millions and that is millions of dollars in these meters. It's essentially our cash register. So, keeping up on those is our top, right? And it is a big budget item every year. You can see that. So, this is a project that we just have completed. What we had is in this in that little meter barrel. There's a center and that's where your meter goes. the valve on the backside took to leaking on us and caused some problems and so John put together a plan got his blue stakes and we one Tuesday morning we come to work and he put us to it. So what I want to point out with this slide here is we have a gas line, we have a phone line, there's a lot of stuff going in the ground up here on Main Street. You guys have everyone's probably seen the construction. They're pulling in some conduit for power. They're doing more boring. There's a lot underground equipment for this kind of work. It's just it's so good. It's allows the team to work at the level that that we you guys need and what they feel private city. So, with that being said, I'd like to take the time to thank council, the mayor, and management for always giving us the resources, the equipment because it's expensive equipment, but it saves times back. It saves a lot of effort. So, safety is a big one for us. Uh, we have a lot of money wrapped up in safety equipment. And not every hole is big enough for a big trench box. This one's scenario we use shoring which is just the board you see there with the hydraulic ram essentially just keeping the walls back. These guys are have taken extreme ownership and everything that they do and keeping everybody safe including the citizens is their number one. So you'll see with the next few slides that I'll mention a few things. Safety is paramount with this team. So, we got the sidewalk back up for them. And my other slide didn't didn't fill in, but we have it all sorted and it's completed at this point. Looking good for them. This is the team. I'm doing some fire hydrant repair. The hydrant worked. We go on all the a lot of these hydrants and we're just doing our manual, our yearly fix on the 25%. Most of them work, but some of them are what you would call stubborn. So we don't want to have the fire department over there just doing all they can do to get it open. So we tear into it and go through give it a new refresh. Sometimes the bolts like the middle slide shows they're just they're just not worth trying to get off. So we'll just cut them right off. I want to note on the right top corner we pull out our schematics. We have all our parts and pieces and it is like Legos and everything only has one place unlike Legos. So, it's uh hydrants, if you've never had the opportunity, it's probably like rebuild a motor or something like that. Most smaller now. Uh here they are cleaning it. Another thing that's weird about hydrants, our tools tend to be pretty big. We have a couple of these that go in to take the foot valve out. It takes literally two team members to get it in and out. And sometimes we'll have two eight foot cheater bars to get them loose. So we have the right tools to do it. It's the best. But put on that. Jeremy, a question on hybrids. I know Logan's been covered with bags because of salt. Not much of a salt issue on ours. Absolutely. So this uh fall I was driving home and I've seen these bags and I was like, "Oh, for years we were trying to figure out how to best preserve these hydrants over there. I mean, they take them apart. me to go get my anodized a lot of different things. And I was driving home, I seen that. I thought, well, somebody just got the silver dollar decision here. And it was probably two days later, Justin calls me, "Hey, have you seen these?" Was like, "Yeah." He's like, "What are you doing?" He's like, "Absolutely." What I thought at the time, talked to the team, we're going to let the winter fish out. What? We could have got up there and put them on, but I was gonna We got a lot of contacts still, a lot of good friends that work over there. So, we're going to get some insight on if it's working well, if traps moisture in and causes more problems. Um, let them take the lead on that. But this next year, they give it a thumbs up. We're going to probably see some white clear bags. Of course, we'll talk with the fire department. They know the black bag on the hydrant is out of service. A clear bag, they've let the fire department know and it's working out for them. So, I think it's a great idea and it's busy roads like Logan said West Main Street up here on Army. We wouldn't do it. It's the plows thrown the salt like you explained and that salt is hard on everything. So here we've got our Boston Tech. He just got done doing change over making sure to state standards and what Nick City citizens require and should. This is 640 well as well. Just a picture of the backup generator. It's nice to know that in case of emergency, a long-term power outage or something that we can keep the water blowing with with backup generators here. This is a picture of the 640 well. It's what I call the the heart of Nibbi. It runs 365 days a year and it's just an awesome well. We have a geek out, but we'll try not to too far. There's a VFD that allows us to run this just like a gas pedal. So, during the winter, we can slow it down, get just the right amount of water, and then summer it up. Currently, we ramped it up. We've been we've done two steps up. I between all of us, we tried to get to June before we all the other wells on site. It saves the city a lot of money and if we can make it and we have the last three years so it's our goal to make it if we have to. we don't flip one of the other wells on. But currently, this is the one that runs 365 days. And there's there's there's a rather substantial differential between electric rates. I think it's during an eight hour period at night and all the rest of the time we how in the middle of summer maybe Justin's getting ready to answer are how close to getting all the water into the tanks during that 8 hour period are we okay so what he's talking about is we get how cheap during certain time frame and so I'll just use say 9 to 7 maybe 6:00 in the morning and that's when we are efficient pump or the money and during all burst to winter time winter time we turn this way down this well we run eight hours every day in whatever day it is it's 8 hours and it's off and that's all the water we need for the day so we stay perfectly within as the summer months come we're definitely out of that range uh even once we bring on the other two wells, we definitely out of our perfect range. The idea with uh the new well coming online, it can tighten that right up and our hopes are to bring us back into well within that range. It isn't a significant savings with the It is. And as Justin mentioned last time, the one star we have is keeping our we the welltech takes ownership on that as well. So, right. So, it's not just production, it's also storage. So, that'll be as Tom has talked to us, one of our next projects is to build more bigger tanks. That is right. Yeah. Once you once you make it, you got to have so much on standby. So, so this uh this slide just kind of showing these guys out doing some cleaning in the wellhouse. And what I wanted to point out is this extreme ownership and the safety. We got some harsh cleaners that we're using. And they got a full face mask on so they don't get in their eyes. They got the respirator so they're not going to get in their lungs. And uh this is just how how we do things out there. these guys. We don't want to be sending anybody to the hospital. Everybody needs to get home. This is a project our welltech had. It's just a Neilson well and just used to have just an old stained out mint floor. You can just in there and got to etch it all, clean it all out and put this epoxy. But it isn't all just for good looks. It really helps for cleaning it up. It makes it so much smoother. I know he has a plan for this next winter to go in here and media blast all the pipe and paint it up so it's going to look nice. Just cuz it is an old well doesn't mean it needs to look that way. They take a pride city. Is there any other questions water related before we we slide over to the sewer? What's the what did you say the battery life on one of those remote read meters are? So 15 years. Proladen is a prorated. Uh well, let me rewind. Go ahead. 10 years is 100%. If it dies before 10, they'll just give us a new between 15 and 25 years. It's prorated on how soon it dies. We really do see a lot of go years. In some cases, we're getting a 15 year out of one. It's usually a higher water user. It's turning and so it's thinking and it's counting. It's doing this thing using more battery. But always sometimes if it's I've seen I know these guys have seen some that are not deep and the cold kind of gets to them. Of course, bolt gets to batteries, stuff like that. Well, we could make a bunch of money if we just took a little bit of energy out of the paddle with measuring the flow to charge the battery. Just a little bit. One of the things I was going to point out is we strive to protect public health, preserving the environment, ensuring long-term sustainability of waste water infrastructure. Together, we aim to create a clean and thriving city and future generations. And I've heard it been said that clean water this is common sense but having sewer systems to save more lives than all the doctors put together it's just sanitary. So we're pretty blessed to live in America and live where we have these sanitary systems. Little snapshot here sewer. This is just the sewer mains and the size that we've got currently is from 8 in up to 21 in and couple sizes in between. There's 35 and 1/4 miles of that sewer main running around nibbly. We have 98 manholes. The way that James has this laid out is every year the manholes are being inspected. That's pretty much an industry. It's a good practice. Any kids put something down the manholes, they like to put sticks down there. Realistically, we can catch a major backup typically. We check mans. There's a few manholes going out through the fields that are buried on purpose, which isn't a problem because he just runs his camera down through there. It gets the same one. This is James out doing some camera work. Little snapshot of what what it looks like maybe inside one of these sewer lines there. One thing real quick to know in the industry it's pretty standard to have us clean sewers every four years and then Camry 6 to 8 years. That's pretty standard. And on a normal system, this got clay and concrete pipe that is needed. Nibbly is all PVC pipe. We're just over 20 years old. We're in pretty good shape as far as everything in the system. There's a few bumps and bruises, but we're doing pretty good. So, when we brought James on last year, we were talking. It didn't take long for him to confront me and bring up an excellent idea to save the money, save the city a lot of money, save us a lot of time. And so what we've moved to is we are now CCTV in the city every four years. The track that he's on is going to be probably 3 and 1/2 years. And essentially I pushed back our goals of cleaning to 6 to 8 years. But everything that needs to be cleaned, he's seeing it. He's documenting it. And then he puts a list together. When Wednesday comes along, he hands it to the guys maybe once a month, maybe once every two months. I go out and we clean those lines. So what this is doing for the city? Well, first off, the fuel consumption of that truck costs a lot. The water consumption of paint is a resource. It's a lot. And then that truck requires two team members to run where he can go, he can camera, no water use, low fuel consumption, and it's a one team member out there documenting. The best thing that we're finding is we're seeing in the raw, meaning if there is a big problem, if we have grease filled up, if we have a belly when we go through there and clean it, it's kind of like we have evidence for the camera. Now we're seeing so we can document. Okay, there is a bigger problem here to keep an eye than if he would have cleaned it and then ran through. If that makes sense. Just two seconds there. Yeah, I think that is huge uh hugely important and something I'm super proud of these guys coming up with. I felt that way when I started here 10 years ago, but to get the contractors to buy into that wasn't really possible until we had our own crew and we had our own equipment. It wasn't feasible. It wasn't possible to do. So, I just appreciate these guys really putting in the effort and thinking about it and being intelligent about how they're operating, maintaining the system and coming to this conclusion without any product from me. But I think it's perfect. The contractors, you mean the people that we used to hire? Clear. We before we bought our own staff as we have now, we had to pay people to come to do all this stuff. And they want to come in. They want to blow and go and just clean as much as they can rather than they're out to make money for them, not for us. And so by us just being more tactical about it, we're able to save a bunch of money and just do it more intelligently and not dependent on them and them charging us, if that makes sense. We we know there are things we shouldn't put down the sewer. Um grease, things that turn solid when they get cold, and coffee grounds and you know, stuff. How well do we as a city I don't know how you measure this except compared to other towns and how often they have to clean things out. How well do we do as a city in terms of following the rules about what does not go in the sewer? So the biggest thing that Nelly has in the sewer and I'll state that only for the sewer is we don't have a lot of restaurants. We don't have a lot of producing facilities and that's kind of sad but okay. So that's kind of sad. It's only good for the sewer. Um with that being said, we do have a lot of grease built up. It's just the nature of the beast. The biggest thing I would like to get out for all and everyone is these flushable wipes. They will flush. That is true. But they do not dissolve and they cause havoc on the system. Pumps don't like them. No, no, nothing likes. So if you want to be conscious of anxious, that would be the number one for us. With that being said, we got a couple slides here to talk about where we mitigated a little bit of our grease problem here. Oh, here's the guys out there just cleaning just uh So that looks like the back truck. Is it the back truck? Yeah. Okay. So the back truck essentially this is a sewer cleaning truck and back in the day that's that's what these trucks were made for. That's what they did. Europe got on it real quick like 30 years ago. America were a little slow. While we finally got on a little bit 20 years ago and 10 years ago, it took off like a wildfire to use these trucks with vacuum excavation to do like we were showing in the picture before, dig around these utilities and use water, suction. And so now they used to make trucks and these are like almost a million dollar trucks now. And they used to make them. So one only did one and one did the other. All these companies have got together to where most every company out there now makes a combo truck. We can utilize it for sewer cleaning. We can utilize it for doing this hydro excavation on a water drain or water leak. Uh we do have just a note there's separate tubes. We don't stick the sewer tube down on the water leak. Just bring that out. I've had people kind of get weird about that. So there's different tubes for different things, but contamination. But that that truck right there is the hands down one of well, it's the most expensive that N City has, but it's hands down the in my eyes one of the most valuable that sweeper. Keep that in mind for item number

19. Oh, is that the budget? Yeah. And I'll just throw a little punch here. They have gone out of control like everything else with devices. And the biggest thing is you got to keep up on them. If you let these go too far, you're putting I can just say this, one year in another uh my other life spend a couple$100,000 in repairs. So it can get out of our capability. So you kind of got to stay in truck that's not breaking down. Water pump on those are 25 30 g. So just parts and pieces that are crazy but we'll move them. Currently we have three lift stations that we take care of very is all the sewer goes gravity. It's agravity system. At one point it's got to be pumped up and sent to Logan essentially. And so our stations see here in a minute. We've got the whole crew here on Scott Farms station. That's what it looks like. Not too desirable. And that's actually cleaned out. Looks like on its best day. So, we've got some rails that we've got to replace. We replaced one this day, but what they were doing is getting this ready. This year, we purchased that's pretty much just a little blower device that sits down in there and it blows oxygen into the well and that keeps our bugs alive. You say bugs? What's going on with bugs? Well, sewer is got billions and billions of these bugs, and if we keep them oxidized, then they're going to stay alive and thrive, and they'll eat all of our grease, and it does help with the odor as well. And so, we put this in two of our lift stations pictures, but we knew about it from our other life. They're a little spendy, but the key here is it's not just the maintenance that we're saving on having to deal with going in and cleaning out all the time. It's also the pumps. It just makes everything smoother. So, as I mentioned before, safety, we're down in these holes all the time. Nobody knows it. We're in, we're out. We are our rescue crew, our safety crew. We're everything. We manage everything. We have air monitors. We have all of OSHA standard stamped equipment. Extremely expensive. Thanks. Again, we're allowing this to happen so all these guys can go home So, the little box there is the motor with the blower for this unit. And that road used to have a little bit we could drive over where you're seeing that hatch. It had a different hatch and the road closed. That's it. Long story short, we had to figure out how we're going to get this blower in here. It does make noise. We talked with the neighbors, but it's very quiet. You can't you have to be right there to be able to hear it. So, these little things on the floor, black, that's them. Doesn't sound like a lot, but the technology in it is what's important. And this is uh I'm assuming we're just cleaning them low flow because I have one in my hand. But the pump blows there down there, keeps things going. And we would be every week cleaning couple 3 4 inches of grease off the side, take on the pumps, and then essentially we try to pump as much to Logan as we could and then it would be right back. Now with the bugs doing their thing, we that's not even a thing. We don't even go wash those down unless we're going in once a year to do a year off. There any questions about the water wastewater

report how good of a job this is like a resume like a career or maybe I mean I think he said it's a crappy job I think it pays well So, well, I should say what I was going to say. Well, I told my kid my son to go a different direction, but mainly because having said that, public works in general, not just wastewater industry is very needed, a very reputable area. You got to look at every city that you go through. Anywhere you go in the in the world, there's guys that build it and there's guys that maintain it. When you turn on your faucet, when you turn on flush your toilet, there's something to that. And uh we have a great team. There's a the industry in itself is a need for some of these young entrepreneurs to come up and some of these young guys to come in. There's some good programs through rural water and some other avenues that would really you're interested in reach out to us. We can if you ever see a job opportunity nibbly we kind of have a great thing going with some seasonals. We every department almost that I'm aware of get some seasonal help. Try to recruit some of these guys but we keep them away from the sewer a little bit. Don't want to scare them. you know, we get some little little knowledge there. A lot of these kids come in and they they just don't even know anything about it. And when they leave, we've had some it's like, I want to be an engineer now because it's so cool. And we we tell them, hey, this is this is all right, but this is where you want to be, you know. Anyways, so yeah, reach out to us if anybody has any questions that way. Thanks. Thanks, guys. Jared, one one more. I app I'll be brief. I I appreciate the GIS graphical information system stuff that you've got online documenting valves, manholes, pipes. And I think that that to me it seems like that's a big improvement from where we were years ago of just somebody was keeping track of this somewhere in their brain. Absolutely. And it's an ongoing thing. We have a lot of work to do on the waterway side to that. But I will say this, everyone on this team feel that. Okay. And so we do it on a daily. And our knowledge, the way this team is is the knowledge is for everyone. And all the guys you're talking about a lot of they left. all that knowledge and you do get to know the system if you've been in the same system for a while. Keeping it documented, fixing it. It's all there. Some things are out of line. Got some GPS systems that work real well and they're always out GPS and trying to improve it. So, okay. Appreciate you, Jerry. Okay. Next we uh have Tom, you're going to talk about um issuing a a first of all notice of award and subsequent construction contract on the fifth and final phase of G West. Correct or Yes, exactly. Fifth and final phase of 12 West. This this portion of the roadway goes from 2500 south extends north to the connection of Logan's 10th west to 2200 south there. We went to bid last month. We received three bids back and those bids came in under budget, thank goodness. And the low bid was 1.3 million was Stac. The next one up was Lran Johnson at 1.439 million and the highest bid was Sunrock at 1.63 million. A lot of this funding comes from COG. If you remember, we have we have actually two grant awards that total about $1.88 million. So, this project came in under even that grant award. So, we might be sending some of that money back that's unused. We are responsible for an 8% match to that whatever the contract costs at the final and uh we can get started right away with council's permission. We'll issue notice of award. Subsequent to that, the contractor will secure bonding, secure contracts with their subcontractors, and get everything in order. Once they get all that back to me, we start with submittals and a notice to proceed. Their estimated timeline to start is beginning of June, and they say they're going to be done the end of July. This is the same cont, same year, same year. This is the same contractor that did the last phases, phase three and four, which is around about at 2600 South and extended all the way down to 2980. So, with regard to the actual construction of it, it's very similar to what phase three and four were except we made a few tweaks on let's call them the people call them turtles, what I call them concrete mountable islands. We've shortened them a little bit so they're not 6 in or 4 in. and we've shifted them back toward the intersection a little bit. So, which it'll allow a little bit different turn movement, still have the same safety effects and traffic calming and force the drivers to pay attention and square up as they make the turns into these intersections in and out of of the intersections. But we're they're confident they can get this done by the end of July. Just if you have any questions, I'd be glad to right? It must not be busy, but they I haven't seen a project bid under budget in years. So, there there's a couple reasons it did come in budget. We decided instead of tearing apart some of the newer road section through the Firefly Estates project. Even though it's only three inches of asphalt or three and a half inches of asphalt, we decided to just let that ride. We have a good base under it. So, still have a great road. We just saved a lot of money and in the removal and the reconstruction of that portion. It was just so new. It's only a couple years old. in in this section is the section that goes south uh south past Firefly Estates the actual development there and then it dead ends currently include a seal coat afterwards. I know a lot of the roads when we put in the sil code after they can last longer than first. So steam youth is really got a great asphalt preservation program and we really want to get on these brand new roads and get a treatment right away first year. We didn't include that price in the bid contract. Couldn't tell from the it's probably as well. Yes, it's very it'll be almost just like the phase 34. It's just with those minor adjustments. We have we have more tapered ends on on every intersection getting tapered in visibility and some concern expressed by citizens. setting increase that visibility, but it does have the crosswalks, the green paint like yeah, just the same thing. So on the on the islands going shorter, how does that affect the the slope or the pitch of the mountain part of it? Does it just make it a little easier to handle or is it still kind of the same? It'll actually soften that. So the distance is about 6 in from the lift. So it'll still be six inches, but instead of going six inches tall, you're only going four. So it's less steep. The midlock crossing. Yes. Between the two parks, the signs and go through it again. It looks like that's pretty well positioned where like people use the frisbee golf. So, if I remember correctly, it's right where it's not quite centered with where one of them goes off, but we're in we're putting in actual like ADA like cuts that then putting Yeah. Yes. So there'll be ramps in place with the truncated domes. We'll leave an opening in the the bike barrier, let's call it. Also with that, there's going to be a bike or excuse me, a bus stop that the bus can stop there. There'll be room for a a shade structure if they want to put one in there. I think they can coexist with the bike path and have that that short duration stop. It'll stop traffic for a brief period of time when they they load and unload a passenger, but I've been coordinating that with CP. It's not CPT, it's connect. Now, they were excited to actually get a stop there. We'll have a stop in both north and south directions right near that location. Remind me the 10 foot sidewalk is the south park 5 foot is the is that correct? It'd be east and west. So the 10 foot is on the No, we're going to utilize a lot of what's the existing infrastructure, but new portions and things will tie those in with the trucks. One thing to just think about, I know it might not be to it, but where we're doing those um softer jersey barriers, I brought up last time that um a few youths have decided to use that as a stunt brain for bikes. any kind of deterren deterrence that we could think about to uh disincentivize going up those with a small will. I don't know what that would be, but it just came in my mind for asking these guys to put these on something we do as a city or ask them to kind of just makes it not happy to do a good thing to do that. So, got you. Uh that was that was the and then what are we uh the timeline's great I notic the essence in the contract what are what are we prepared to do if that gets delayed what what gap do we usually kind of give people so we have liquidated damages built into the contract right and in lie of a change order that would extend the contract time they they are held to that that completion deadline. Now the completion deadline of the contract is October 15th. So they're proposing to complete it wage book before the maybe on those turtles with the mountables. The other ones you did the asphalt on top in case keeps getting some drama that you might need to move them or change those. the same on these. The fines don't show word, but that's my intent. Yes. Motion mayor. I move to issue notice to the ward and subsequent construction contract with sticker parking for West. We have a motion from Norm, second from Nathan to uh accept the construction contract on base five times. Yeah, that's that's 30 years on the road plan. And this so this is a road that'll connect Hyum to the Logan Cash airport. So through 10th west in loden. So there will there will be traffic there and and uh we taking steps to try to make it not be a 55 mph speedway. Okay. Any any discussion on the motion council? If there's no opposition to voting then I'll call for a vote. I think we can do a voice vote on this. Yes. Okay, those in favor of the motion to issue the construction contract, please say I. I. Are there any opposed? Thank you, council. Tom, thanks. Motion passes five 4. Uh, there's an election coming up and Dustin, are you going to talk about another contract in terms of running that election? Yes, sir. So, everyone knows the election coming up. Typically in the past we had contracted well typically in the far past we ran our own elections. We hired the staff to come in check IDs do the votes then we tally the votes and we had we did it all a few years ago the state passed a law that said it needed to be done by mailin. There's a lot of change to that now that's kind of in the works and they're talking about changing the way we do mailin ballots and things like that. But really what this contract is is it's a contract to let Cash County run our election for us. And Cheryl's really the expert on this. I'm sorry she wasn't able to be here tonight. So if we have questions, there is no issue or no time frame. If we need to push this to a second reading and if we want to follow up with more questions with her, we can certainly do that. She's confident. I'm confident. We we've read through the contract. We've had the attorney review the contract. We've analyzed what it would take for us to do our own election and run our own election. We found that that cost to be probably just a little bit more than what the county would be charging us to do this way. And so we were proposing as staff that we contract with Cash County to run the election. What that means is they print the ballots, they mail the ballots out, people return the ballots either through the mail or through the dropbox. We help gather those ballots. All is taken to the county facility where they run them through the machines and they tally and cal calculate the or tally the votes and declare a winner through that uh through that process that most everybody else in the valley is doing. So it is possible for us to contract with third parties companies as well as potentially other counties. We did look into that a little bit. We just felt by the time we got very far down that road it wasn't worth continuing. And so again, we're recommending that we utilize Cash County and their services, motions to approve resolution 2515. Okay. Motion have a motion. reserves. Second from Aaron to approve resolution 2515 uh to have C county contract with C counties to our electric suggest election I don't know if you see it but it each. It's general and primary. So, a lot of money. Yeah. I point that out. Sorry, we've we budgeted for both a primary and sign and we are only charged. I didn't know the right word there. the uh we are only charged on ballots that are returned. So, we have budgeted for a worst case scenario with the number that's in there of the $20,000. That's what's in the budget. We'll pay substantially less than that if we don't end up having a primary and even less depending on how many people actually return the ballot. So, last time I believe shouldn't say I can't remember, but it was substantially less than what we had contracted or budgeted. Yeah, that's another good point. If citizens drop them off of the Dropbox, we don't get charged. Pay attention. I I have keeping up with changes are coming from the federal level and what changes are coming from the state level. Utah has led the nation for years in vote by mail. I know the Utah Utah legislature, thank you, has made some changes to this election, so pay attention so that your vote counts. Uh the the motion was didn't did not wave first reading and do second reading, but an amendment be offered if you're so inclined to wave the second reading. Like to wave second. Okay. So there's a motion for amendment to wait second reading. There's a second on the motion to amend there. Thank you. Discussion on the amendment first reading or second reading. Seeing no discussion, those in favor of the amendment which would add wave second reading, please say I. Oppos. So the amended motion is approve this cooperative agreement with Cash County and wave second. Okay. Uh, anyone opposed to voting? Since this is a resolution, uh, we'll call the role. Justin or Tom? Oh, man. You're your minute. Your moment of war. Seconds of fame. Here we go. Council member Larson, what is your vote? In favor. Council member Lowerson, what is your vote? In favor. Council member Mansale, what is your vote? In favor. Council member Man, what is your vote? Terrific. Four in favor and none opposed. Um that motion passes. So that next we okay to keep questions through the agenda. Thank you. All right. Next we have ordinance 2514. This is this is a second amendment to the Nidley Meadows subdivision development agreement. And Levi, you're going to describe this for us, I think. Yes, I will. I see Travis is here. We'll give you a chance to tell Levi what you think of him. Yeah, the the applicant is here and there is a portion of this that I I would request uh when when it starts getting into some of the numbers. These are these are based on some figures that that the applicant has um estimated. So, I I think it's most efficient to just have the applicant request or explain that part of it. They have been reviewed by staff, but we can't vouch for them as much as as the applicant can. So, he he can speak to those directly and know and other other items as well. So, there are several different uh components of of this development agreement. So, the Nibbly Meadows subdivision was approved in 2020. And you see it under construction now south of 3200 South, ju just south of the Heritage Elementary School there. And right now, they've they're constructing phases 1, two, and three of of the 10 phase subdivision. uh the the the applicant is proposing some changes to the development agreement and and I should mention right off the bat that these uh a lot of these changes were uh prompted by a discussion that staff had with the development agreement amending the the plan for storm water facilities uh for the for the development. that does add some uh additional and significant costs to the to the developer, but there's some uh that there's a benefit to the city in doing that. But the developer and and I'll you know, we'll get through the the numbers is proposing some of these changes uh partly to make them whole uh with with the development. So as these changes and I I'll describe them in more detail, but they impact the number of allowed housing units in there, the type of units, so town home versus single family homes, the con the configuration. So there there is some changes to the plan and in accommodating those additional housing units to to the the layout. So the RPUD is as uh just as a reminder is uh the this is residential planned unit development is a spec it's a specific plan that has been approved. So it's different than other zones. The the ma the it needs to be built to the master plan. So any changes to that, it's different than a standard zone which just specifies the you know the lot sizes and and and those uh different specifications. It's a specific plan. So there is there is a change to the actual master plan of of the development agreement or of the development. Uh I mentioned storm water facilities. So there's some changes in how that's configured. The amenities of there's within an RPU uh there's specific open space amenities that are required depending on the the size the number of the units as well as the required park and street improvements. So, first I'm going to get into the the change with regard to the the plan of of the you know the master plan. So, they are proposing to add uh 39 additional town home units and relocate 12 other units that are shown on the original plan um while removing 17 sing uh single family units. So this would in this in total as you can see there there'd be 22 additional units. So instead of 273 it would be 295 if this is approved. They're also proposing to add a clubhouse to the plans. And they are they are requesting to remove uh there there's a there's a road or a half road on the souththeast corner of the development 900 west. It's a master plan street. they they propose to remove that the requirement to uh improve that road and just to dedicate the right of way. But I'll I'll speak to that more on on staff's recommendation regarding these things. Um there there there's also a proposal to remove the large detention pond that's adjacent to the dedicated city park and dedicate one and a/4 acre as city park space as as part of that. So, as you can see there, uh there's uh currently on on the current plans 50 56% of the units are town homes versus 65% with this proposed amendment. This is the recorded plan uh as amended for the development. You can see that configuration, the the brown buildings there that indicates town homes and then and then kind of the lighter color those are single family lots. So this is the new amended development plan and thankfully the developer provided a good uh schematic that shows how these these two are changed. So you don't have to you know remember necessarily what's on the the last slide to this slide but just to show you how how that changes. So I I'll I'll go to the next slide and describe what's changed. So the uh you see some of these some of these units are crossed out. So the the pink uh kind of the pink color of town homes there those those town homes would be relocated to a different lo location uh further south. A part of the re uh the the the reason for this is that that's a wetland area and although the developer has uh has worked to with the Army Corps of Engineers at at um on on these areas, they're they're they're running into roadblocks there. So, they're they're requesting to to relocate those as well as well as removing those three single family lots that you can see that are kind of to the toward the left of the screen just just south of that green area there. Um the the relocated town homes are all on the southern end. And there's there's different colors there to denote whether they're relocated from another area or um or they're new units. So the the purple indic ind indicates that that they're new where the where the pink is is indicating that the pink and orange is indicating new uh relocated or and some I guess the the orange is the ones that are replacing single family homes and the the pink is relocated. So you can see that how that's reconfigured. Um, you know, from from staff's perspective, one advantage of this reconfiguration is is a little it's better circulation. The the previous plan, there's dead ends on the on a lot some of those town home streets and with this plan there, they connect through. So, there's some there's some advantages to that for circulation. Uh but it it you know it does display some of these single family lots for for more town homes. Oh, and then the green area that's that storm water pond that would be removed. And the reason that that would be allowed is if you remember with the we talked about this with the Hawk Hollow subdivision and the agreement that was made with with that the storm water would be would be pushed across the street to the wetland area that's on the city property. But that takes additional pipe additional infrastructure. they've already put in the the storm water pond there. So, they'd have to remove that and and so there's costs associated with with doing all of that. Going to describe the the the other changes and so you know some of these relate to what I've already talked about but just getting more specific on them. So within this agreement, it would remove the requirement for a payment in lie of the splash pad improvement in in the park space and allow the applicant to build proposed clubhouse to fulfill the the requirement of nibbly city code for for the this improvement. Uh so nibly within our code there's a requirement once you reach a certain level I believe it's 200 units that you need to either provide a a clubhouse a splash pad or a pool and at at the time that this was uh approved previously they weren't they weren't planning on building a a clubhouse or pool. So they agreed for uh to pay a fee in lie of a splash pad. There was actually a one version of the agreement that said they had the choice between all of them, but the current version just says that they they pay this fee in lie and it's $150,000 index to inflation from I believe 2021. So the applicant's proposing that they they can build this clubhouse instead. Uh the developer is to ensure that storm water facilities downstream of the park are sized to handle storm water flows generated from the park space. And uh they're also proposing to remove some requirements within the park. So the 25 the cost for 25 parking stalls, trails and and park restroom. uh the the developer is justifying these as these requirements due to the the additional expenses that are imposed by the regional pond improvements and they'll they I'll let them get into those more specifically on on the next slides. Uh they're also requesting some deviations from Nibbly City Code. Now, I I'll I'll say that these aren't uh well, the first two here aren't necessarily deviations from the code that was in place. They're not deviations from the code that was in place when this was originally uh approved and when when it when they originally came in with their application. So, increasing the allowable residential density to seven units per net developable acre. The current threshold within the RPD code is five, but it was 12 units per acre at the time it was approved. Uh since that time, we the city's adopted a transfer development rights ordinance, but this was necessary. This this exception to the code if you were to approve this because the the existing code does say five units per acre and that would it would be above that. Uh another change to the code is it was decreased from uh previously was 80%, it was allowed 80% of town homes versus 20% single family. Well, the current threshold is 60%. So they're proposing a deviation to allow 65%. Again, uh the the previous code would have allowed this when they originally proposed it, but but we're looking at the existing code here. Um, this last one is is something and and maybe the developer can get into more of the the justification here, but they'll allow town homes to be located on a single undivided parcel uh which may be developed as a single multifamily project rather than as individually platted parcels. So, our current code does not allow this. uh you can't within an RPD um development pl you have to plot each individual units. Now they could operate it like a a uh apartment complex. We have nothing in our code that says you can't do that, but if you combine it um into one parcel, you can't sell it individually. So that's that's the difference there. Uh, as I said, they can get in into more of the detail, the reasons why. It does it does have to do with with lending uh issues that they've run into with uh getting those getting those built and maintained long term. Uh, yeah. Sorry. So, this clubhouse will be a city owned or be No, no, it's an HOA clubhouse. Yeah. splash. The splash pad was going to be in the city park and bathrooms were city and and the bathrooms were city the park the parking was city all of that was in the city park space and they're they're proposing to remove that requirement um as part of this agreement. So, I mean, I encourage you on this one to get in. I know there's a lot on the agenda, uh, but dig into whatever details you need to on on this, but I I just wanted to spell out everything. Now the the next slides the the developer has provided these um these spread these spreadsheets the a ledger that goes goes in and estimates the costs and and the benefits to both the city and the developer and and how how we kind of come to this disagreement. So, uh, mayor, if at this point in the presentation, I I think it'd be best for the developer to explain these these numbers and, you know, anything else and then I I can get back to what our recommendation is for agreement. Thank you. Before we dig in, you know, have you ever have you ever done something or been something or had a job where you finish it and you look back years later and you go, "Wow, so about 20 years ago, I was in charge of the city's water system and normally I'm not very interested in some of these presentations like besides banking or something." But I got to tell you, the tools have changed in 20 years, you know, and the fact that he has flower symbols on him is, you know, funny. But, uh, I just say when I was listening to him, the the the employee development program that he has, I just wish I could go back and do a better job 20ome years ago. I did learn that water system because and I can tell you except through these other presentations in other cities that was the way that he's got that shifted up and have the people learn each other's jobs and the and just I don't know I just haven't heard anything like that. So that was my stuff. So, uh, Tom came and and said, "Hey, we're looking at this regional bond. What can we do? How do we pay a for this and how do we how can we run through the the development?" He worked with the engineer and sizing some things and and we put cost to it and started this cascade of of changes on how how do we accommodate this and how do we get it paid for? So it was kind of a mess in the first version we brought through and they asked us to kind of put this into a ledger format so it makes more sense and we can see the benefits but just the trade-offs there financially to the city and to us. And so that's what we've attempted to do here. Breaking it down into different parts of this part one um with the bypass pipes. it it it just assigns a cost to well what what's it going to cost us to do what um the city needs us to do. So that's a negative on our side but a negative on your side is we're going to take a part of the capacity that you're creating in that new regional bond. So we've assigned a value to that and then we just kind of work through this ledger like that. Um, we'll talk about what it's going to cost us to reclaim the the pond that we've already done, adding um some additional bypass pipes, the value of dedicating the extra land to the park, and then on the other side, I can't remember it was Tom or Levi that brought up, well, now you don't have to maintain this park in perpetuity or or not the park, the the pond by the park. So, we had to hit our side with that. there's a there's a value to us that in not having to maintain it forever. And so just with with that the first the first uh look at the changes that were made, that's about where the balance sheet comes out. There's depending on whether you credit one side or debit the other side, whatever, there's about $130,000 worth of of difference there. So now we go to the second part. Do you mean go back? you explain that last line, the 200,000 maintaining the pond. So, so the H the the pond that's next to the park there, that one whatever acre there's there's a cost to that in in to the HOA to maintaining it forever. And so basically this is a this is an estimate of establishing basically a fund in perpetuity that that if you have that balance in the bank right now then you could pay for the maintenance of it forever. You draw it down with the cost of maintaining you'd increase with interest and you'd inflate that over time. So that's where that number comes from. So your HOA would be 200,000 to maintain that pond over the next while over the life. Yeah. potential. Well, that's that's a plus in the West because they don't have uh Okay. So, um this one here just brings that same balance forward on the top line. And then this one is really kind of neither here nor there. Then Levi mentioned it there. It was part of our first amendment was after we did the delineation of the wetland in there, it affected the 12 units, the two six plexes that are in the top of phase three. And even though um they've since delineated it and have determined and have put in an AJ request to the core of engineers for a determination that is nonjurisdictional. They don't process those. They have no timeline to process them. They have no desire to process them. they kind of got um their feelings hurt over a recent Supreme Court case that uh decided against the core of engineers and Florida lost their primacy in in dealing with wetlands. So now the core took that over and so they raided the employees from Utah that were processing that had we had any hope in getting this processed and there is no time limit now that they'll give us for actually doing their job and processing these applications and there's no requirement for them to do their job. They just sit there for years and years and years. So this in in in this shuffle that's what those units are. There's no addition. There's subtraction is simply moving them from the north to the south. So go to the next one. Uh okay. So now that carries over that top part. The next section there is uh so that's Oh, I'm sorry. I got ahead of me. That's the That's the next one. The first one with the 12 and 12. That is that sorry that was offsetting the value to balance that out. the 109,000 and the 116. They got to have at least we didn't have done 12. So that actually just says, okay, if we're going to clean this up and have those two uh in balance, we would need an additional 12 town homes to balance the account. Right. Right there. Okay. So, section one, that balances the account. I got ahead of myself. The next section down is the net balance, which is remove 12 town homes from phase three and add those same 12 towns. So the first 12 town homes is there's a $360,000 roughly disparity that was carried over from the changes in in the first section. And how to make that whole would be adding 12. Okay. And then so now we'll go back past the ones that have the pig X and pig hatch and we'll go to kind of the cascade of where do we put those and where where we put them. Levi, can you go back to that drawing that shows the changes? That one. So So the the two pink X's at the top there, those are the two that are the wetland. You can see that little finger underlying that. It comes from the west and in the little neck between the two buildings and then overlaps the two pink ones. That's the wetland. Uh so those now we've shown in the pink down below. We've showed 12 shown 12 uh replacement units down below. And then but to find a place for those we removed those uh I believe it's seven lots. M88 77 lots with the orange X's through there. The signs and that's where Levi was talking about extending those deadend driveways that were on the existing phase through those where those orange lots are now. And that's what created the space for these terms to fit. Okay. And then on that the purple they removed. So that's just going to be open space where the army cors wetlands. So you're even so if you get approval years down the road you're not but they're they're out. I mean they'll be gone. So, we also have a little bit of a bigger there that's also under the same status with those three blue lots that are just down from the green pond area and lift. Those are in the same boat. Okay. Okay. And so this is just the cascade of removing the single family lots and offsetting them with some town homes. And we just kind of work our way through. Down at the bottom of the third section, you'll see a balance of $109,000 in the Nid Nidley city ledger and a negative $351,000 in the West column. And and that's where we kind of ran out of room. So to offset that to be able to kind of sell this to our investors even though it looks completely out of whack in the city's favor I started putting the kind of the intangibles there and trying to assign it to height. So the first one is the value of using the east side of the temp and there's the value of time for the move lots. Let me just address that. The value of time for the mood blocks. I'm just guessing when the core may ever decide to to do their job and allow us to do to build those town homes. I believe that it will happen at some point in the future, but I don't know if it's five years, three years, 10 years, who knows? So I threw a value at that. There is a value for us to be able to move ahead. So, let me go back to the value of using the east side of the town hall. Can you go back to the drawing, please? I think can we budget just somewhere for a laser pointer? I don't know. I don't know if it's going to work very well for you, but I don't think it's working for you. You got to push down really hard. Just don't break it. Okay. Soology using basically comes right here. Right now we have this road. This road hasn't changed. The alignment road is exactly the same. But when in our first version I had this culde-ac slid over so that the back of the lots the back of these single family lots was right here. And then we had a row of singlesided a row of lots right here that fronted onto this future 900. And what I've done is I've slid this culde-sac over to the right and then have been able to use this. And so what I just what I said was look there's some value in this not having to build a separate road to service these these town homes. And so I assigned a value to that. Um the road itself like Levi mentioned right here. It's a master plan road with this rough alignment. And we were you know we've followed this this is roughly what's shown on your transportation master plan with that swoop in it. And then I I believe you got a road from over here somewhere in the future. I can't I don't know where but somewhere over here. Um, and so we suggested, well, maybe we just dedicate this because we will no longer have any lots sprinting on that. It's actually a little bit of a detriment there. It's the same situation we're in right here where you have the 3200 on the back side of those lots. This road I don't think will be nearly as busy as 3200, but in the future, I don't think so. But that's that's that trade on. So can you go back? Sorry. Can we go back to that road? Sorry. So were you were you required to have that road? We we had lots that that that accessed off of that road before. So you would build that half and so we Yeah, we had the we had the half dedication and Oh, it was actually a little more than half. It was half plus 10 or I think it was half plus I'm not sure but whatever it was that's yeah you have to have 20 feet of of asphalt and nor the the street I think is well is it 35 ft of asphalt so it's a little bit a little bit more because it's a collector road so so you were going to have to build the road are you saying are we saying you won't have to build that road now that's that's what there Yeah. Yeah. We'll get into that more. But yeah, lots that will be using them. So our proposal is that we dedicate the but not dedicate a road just land. So build not build the road. Yeah, that's what they've requested. Nothing like designing on the fly. But is there any chance you couldn't just curve that road and hit the culde-sac and make that culde-sac a through road and solve the same problem? Follow me. There is probably no reason why we couldn't. That is actually good idea. I we felt that it it won't it'll no longer straddle. I think the original goal here was that's a property line between us and our neighbors. And the goal was to straddle that as it comes down. And so if that was the goal down to the south, then it would have to swoop at some point right here and get back on the alignment so that one guy's not eating that. But we it would we could do that. We could get rid of this. Scooch these over and and possibly even take up part of that swoop right here. Leave a culde-sac in there. Is that what you're thinking? Leave the culdeac in and then and then swoop one out of that so that you still have a turnaround ability. I don't think you need the culde-sac. Is that you you you're just you're just saying it just dead ends there. I just think that's an idea that needs investigated. I don't want to hash the details right now. I think we can work through that. I haven't thought of that. Well, I think the reason that alignment was chosen in the master plan is because it lines up very well as you continue to the south. We look at this and just this perspective. You're absolutely right. It would make sense to do that, but it we're looking at a master plan that actually continues to the south. So, making that adjustment couldn't work. And you're going to lose four lots. But if I were to swim out with this Yeah. What what if it what if it ended up over there? That could potentially work. I think we I'm happy to look at that. I think that's a good idea. I don't If it works, it works. I had thought of it. Currently, the two properties to the south of this are owned by the same individuals. U Robos. Yeah, I think as you go south, I think that alignment is is important. Our our park our park uh on our park master plan, you know, where where the regional park is. This this road aligns with the western edge of it. And we we kind of we planned around that having that that access of that road. But I mean, I guess you can get there. All right, let's keep going. Backward spreadsheet. Okay, so um this the the parking stalls was um a contribution towards the parking stalls. That was the last minute uh these were all last minute singers I think from Nor. Yeah. So, these were contributions towards that the the parking there was no and still is no design on the on the park and so there's no really way to build them and ensure that they're actually usable and not going to be in the wrong place. So that was that was a contribution towards this week was a contribution towards as well that those I don't even know that and I believe I brought this up last time where the park will now extend all the way uh in Hawk Hollow to the north. It'll extend to the road on the west. It'll extend to our road in the south. It'll extend if this goes through. It'll extend to the trail on the old 1100 alignment on the east. So whether that's necessary or not, I don't I don't know. And then the restroom and associated utility stubs was this was also a contribution towards the towards the restroom because again it wasn't going to be built. It was just going to be part of whatever gets designed there. So that kind of brings the balance a little more in line. And again, these are kind of nebulous numbers. These aren't. These are kind of fixed, but these are kind of nebulous numbers up here. But it was an attempt to get this back more reasonably in line. Uh I I think now it shows a little bit in our favor. It's this is this is a hard one to come up with tell you the truth. So if there's easy adjustment, you know, with with something up in here that would make this pretty close to exactly even. But that's the that's the gist of it. So, if I if I could just get into real quick that the the staff's recommendation and and planning commission was was the same. Um they the planning commission went uh in line with with staff's recommendation. It is approval of of this ordinance this this uh amendment to the development agreement but with uh the following conditions and and findings. So uh the developer would be required to build a half road of the master plan on our west street on southwest corner of the development. Uh the re this is a requirement of nibly city code within our subdivision ordinance to build master plan streets uh that that are uh within within a a subdivision. uh although it it doesn't service those lots, it it would benefit this development in the long term to to have that road there. So that we believe the justifications there for for this exaction for for 900 West. So uh we're recommending that that that remain a requirement to build that half road. Uh these next two are are related. So the developer uh must coordinate with Hawk Hollow Developments on their findings and USACE determination requirements regarding wetland adjacent to bypass pipe and the developer must construct bypass piping running along the north of city park and its entirety of the east boundary at 1200 west. So their their schematic shows a pipe. Maybe I'll just go back. Um, and Tom, if you want to chime in on this, you can if I'm off base on anything, but I'll just X here so I can use my cursor. But but what what uh city engineer Tom has has uh recommended is that they would be required to extend this pipe, which they show right here on the edge of this uh storm water pond. out out to the east um to to the edge of this property. So that would be a change from what's what's on the plan recommended condition of approval. So the findings are the proposed amendments compliant with uh nibbly city code 19.32 at the time that the original development was applied for. proposed amendments compliant with NLY city code 19320550 which requires that 35% of net developable acres is required to be used for amenities and open space. So we didn't discuss this uh previously but the developer has provided figures and numbers to show you know with this reconfiguration they they they still meet the minimum open space requirement. Um city recoil code requires the improvement of a 900 west master plan street within the development and the decreased required improvements of the park space are offset by proposed storm water improvements and increased park dedication. So we can get into any questions you have or but just wanted to give you the whole picture of what's what's being proposed. Uh I actually I wanted to add one thing. So although the planning commission uh they they did recommend approval that this with these conditions in line with staff's recommendation. There was there was a point that was brought up on on that half road uh that that Commissioner Obre asked me to to just bring up to the the group and and that's and that's this this half road that it's really inefficient for development to ha to have this type of configuration. So they they they did discuss and explore whether whether the road needed to be in this location. They didn't talk about, you know, Justin's idea of moving it over here, but uh they they they did deliberate on that that item of of whether the road needed to be specifically in that location or not. Um from staff's perspective, there is there is a reason and a value that it is there. it was there in the original plans and um although you know maybe if there were another proposal in front of us for for what's what's being proposed here staff recommends that that that road not not just be dedicated as a public right away but be improved used to say we won't go after some, huh? But there's a couple questions for whoever. What what is the the area of the pond that Nigly Meadows doesn't have to build is how big? 1.35 acres. 1.35 acres. And so just land for land. Then uh Nibbly Meadows dedicates about one and change of land to the city park. So that's kind of a wash land for land. Land that Nibbly Meadows doesn't have to build a pond on because it's now in a regional pond. And then about that same amount of area would be given to the city for this park we're trying to put together there. That pond that's shaded green is already constructed. That's part of this this uh breakdown on the cost is deconstructing that piping through it to the new regional pond that will be on the other side of 1200 West. But it's about an acre and a quarter land for land. But there is some work to make it usable, right? the change that loss of individually platted footprints for town homes come into this whole picture. I mean, I I'll I'll tell you, I I believe that home ownership is a great benefit to the community, even if it's a footprint of land underneath town home, that this would relieve Nimly Meadows of that requirement. Um, how does trading land for a park for land that you don't have to do a storm detention basin on? How how does this how does that change change this home ownership question? Is it just because it's worth more money that way? The individually platable lots on the south. Yes. Versus one overall. Right. Um well, it was always our intent to have the south part of the development as as a rental project. Um no change there. There's no change in in what we intended to do with it, but there is there there was a requirement and at the time it wasn't as that big of an impediment to us, but with the current financial state with interest rates. It's basically we at the time we could have gone to an insurance company or for to private um lenders for um long-term financing there. But this we've it's basically you're down to HUD at this point as far as your financing option as far as our financing option goes for for a viable project. So u with HUD that bellweather our intermediary lender there um they have confirmed that HUD will not underwrite the loan unless it's on one parcel. So it it the intent never changed for us. It this the financial conditions have made it to where it's very difficult. So if if we if we didn't do that, if we individually platted those, it would likely be held by a bunch of different investors. It's it's just it's more efficient. It's it's better to me. It's a better long-term project for us as a rental project to have it all in one piece under one umbrella. It's well, it'll be professionally managed. It's uh it's it's just a better way to have the asset in our portfolio. It just it's tough the other way. I think it's better under one umbrella, too. Yeah. I mean, there will still be an HOA umbrella no matter what. So we have yeah we have an HOA o over the whole thing. Um this will function somewhat under the HOA and somewhat independently there. Uh which brings me back to the clubhouse. I I should have brought this up before. the clubhouse when we originally discussed it. That was always a requirement when we hit whatever Levi said 200 units was that we had the option to build a clubhouse or a sponge pad or you've got a list that we can pick from. So the discussion was always that we would have the option but we didn't intend at the time to build a clubhouse. So we had the option of if we didn't build our own clubhouse that we would have to contribute towards a splash ad in the park. That option optionality was reflected in one development agreement the other. So they are a little bit in opposition but um the the proposal is that we have that So broad in some of these numbers like in public restroom for 60,000 our last one cost us to build but as you mentioned it was only a portion of that and particularly part of that wasn't the whole thing there. See that would have been 2020 pricing motion to put 60,000 towards the bathroom. So was it specific was it was having some of these kind of similar home ownership. We're not the original one. Obviously going to be rentals giving up for the whole the city and a splash pad in the park or a clubhouse that will only serve a few with a splash pad. It serve you know majority of the city. I don't mind giving up an amenity that's a bad city just for appeal in this one. Yeah, I don't know if I and I don't like the idea of a single person. This is supposed to be a residential development which in my life signifies age. It's I mean I think for me at this point to approve it the way it is. There would have to be something maybe some deed restrictions or something to make there a greater benefit of home ownership on some of these town homes or something that would benefit the community at March before I'd be willing to swallow this one. I I'll talk to the splash pad maybe a little bit just briefly. I I think we already realized it was going to be darn hard to get a splash pad on the amount of money that was going to be dedicated by Nibbly Meadows to a splash pad. So this council had already decided that it would be splash pad for this amount of money which was impossible to build or fee in lie of. So I mean I I agree with you. It is it does seem like it's trading up. A fee in li of is still a public amenity as opposed to a clubhouse that's a private amenity. I don't think it is, but the the windy road with the town homes section there. Um I remember there was a storm water bond those town homes. Is that still needed with the chinks? Uh yeah, there were there are two of them. Yeah. Right. Nope. That happened. I didn't see that calculated. So, I was confirming that there's one right. Wow. Are you pushing a button, Travis, or Oh, maybe this pond right here has been built and it's going to stay. This pond right here has been built and it's going to stay. This This is that picture of wetland there. I suspect that right here it's still going to be wetland. There is a legitimate wet area right here on the corner. That's where I think Tom was talking about that we would coordinate with the core of engineers going through there. So that discharge from these ponds here that we will still have in operation will go to that pipe as well. One thing about this I just think a huge benefit is that this parcel here just becomes completely open not just to this parcel but to this entire length of trail along here. It's just a huge opening. I have concerns about a trail, but uh well, there's pipe underneath there. Oh, is there? Yeah, the the alignment's already there and there's pipe there's two pipes floeding underneath there. In fact, trail has beat it out of us. Um uh so we'll be improving that trail but yeah and and Tom and I in fact walked with today to talk about the vertical alignment of that. Yes, please. I've said it before. I'll state it again. I'm not sad to see a flash go. I need flash. Say the mom with kids. You can only use them two months a year. That's the only time it's more. So um so it's a clubhouse instead of what kind of things club like this. Okay. Sorry. It's um it'll have a little kitchen kitchen area. We'll have exercise room in there. um usually has a it go out kind of a thing. The HOA can reserve it to use it. That was the intent of the ordinance to begin with is that those satisfy it. And that's that's a different face. It's shown. It's shown right there. So, and then you mentioned part of this proposition was decrease it by parking stalls. Um, parking lot. So, the parking stall that we're talking about were we contributing some money but but nobody knows where they are anymore. Yeah, the things that we have completed that we required to do is not just build a half plus 10 along here but build the entire roadway. Sorry, but the entire road and the utility those are right. So I fully admit I might be seeing anything incorrectly. Did we start a conversation with, hey, it seems like a good idea that instead of everyone in this part of town building their own storm water facilities, Nigley City could take that on, do a regional storm water facility, and that would be a win-win for everybody. But that conversation seems to have turned into it's somehow not good for Nibbly Meadows and therefore they need Nimbly Meadows needs more entitlements, more density, more

uh no fee in lie of No, I mean that that that that what seemed like was going to be a win-win on storm water turned into a a liability. to Nibbley Meadows and that's why you're here asking to be to have that liability mitigated somewhat somewhat that that is the case. Um, you know, we had built we we have this pond, we have this pond, we had built this pond. Um, I think a huge win for the city in this regionalization effort just because of how far advanced we already were in construction was the ability to pass through and have have bigger pipes that that that take the areas up to the east and and and send them through. So it's bigger the the benefit to the city I believe is bigger than than the Nibbly Meadows portion. And so I think the downside to this whole approach is that when you have these smaller detention ponds, they're attenuating these gigantic peaks of flow so that you're not taking this whole slug of storm water through. you're putting it into a pond and then that's metering it out at a much lower flow rate. So the pipes that are required for that are much smaller. But if you're just sending raw storm water event flow with no attenuation through a a pond from the east, then the pipes are much bigger and much bigger is much more expensive. And that's what we're dealing with here is we've dramatically upsized those pipes and have provided pipes through there that that weren't there before at a much larger size. So if if the city wanted to just do we're trying to figure out a way to to pay for this. Yeah. And so my question for the city is for all this mitigation, increased density, all this whatever it takes to offset the liability of bigger pipes, is it really a win for the city still? I mean, why not? The pond's built. Why not just stick with it? And that is an option. They they wouldn't have to make any changes whatsoever to the design that was approved. I think the benefit to the city is both gaining that extra acre and a quarter then it's congruent to the hawk hollow and that's I think that's the biggest benefit that we're seeing there the regional to me one of the benefits is if you think of all the issues and all the problems we had across the city with storm water with complaints and it's these it's these little ponds That is true that they attenuate and they soften the blow of storm water ponds but or of storm water flows but they are a royal pain. They are royal pain for rod. They're a royal pain for everybody to take care of and maintain. So I personally, this is Justin M speaking appreciate the fact of getting to a regional pond. It's much easier to maintain. It's easier to handle. And in this case, it's already wet. It's already a wetland. And people expect it. They know it's there. it's not going to be a major complaint as opposed to having a whole bunch of ponds through the east of here in these developments to have to maintain and take care of. So, so to your point of whether or not it's a win-win for everybody, I I think there's probably a little a little bit of give we need to make this all happen. Can Can I back up just one second? For me, it it this looks like a lot of moving parts and pieces and and maybe it is, but the overall the overall development here was approved at a time when the RPU maximum density was 12. The original was approved at 6.25 units to the acre, almost half of what the maximum approval rate would be. We're we're requesting that it go in all these moving parts and pieces and that it go from 6.25 to as designed 6.75. That's what you're seeing here. This a shift from 6.25 to 6.75. The maximum number of towns was at 80%. Uh the approved plan had it at 56% and this now takes it to 65%. still all well well below the limits that were set under the time of approval of this. So even though this looks like a massive shift in in pieces and parts within the development, there's still there's still we have town homes where the town homes were in phase three. We have town homes where the town homes were in phase 4. There's a little bit of shift, but to go from 6.25 units in the acre to 6.6 75 units to the acre. It even though there's a lot of little bits and pieces and moving parts in here, it it that seems so maybe Well, that's that's fair. That's a fair point. I want to come back to maintenance on storm water ponds. I I think Meadows is on the hook to maintain the pond that's already built. There's $200,000 worth of maintenance in perpetuity. Now, are you going to say that we can't actually make people maintain their storm water ponds? Yeah. Am I reading my mind? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, think of how many how many ponds have we rebuilt since I came to Nibbi? No, before Tom got here. Since Justin Han came to Nibbi City 10 years ago, how many storm water ponds have we rebuilt? Because they're too wet. They're pain in the butt. In my opinion, Tom. Yeah, I'll come back to that later. But I to me it makes more sense to put How many complaints have we had about the Frisbee golf course? I'm not aware of any. Uh so to to answer your question very directly, yes, Nibi City is very wet. This has a very high groundwater table and all these small little ponds are a thorn and are difficult and account for a lot of problem and a lot of time for the city. I agree. I also think it looks like a very expensive proposition to rebuild upon that's already built. Yeah, you're to rebuild the green pond. What would What are you talking? Well, I'm looking at your ledger that says it's hundreds of thousands of dollars to upsize the pipe and Oh, $326,000. But yeah, but it's not this is not you're not talking about the pipe that just services this. It would be this pipe here. This is this is this is one pipe right here that that extends to here. Uh and then this pipe goes through to over in here. This pipe here is a big expense that goes up here that would take in this whole the area up to the east. So it's not just that we're trading a big expensive pipe for our pond, our single pond. It's opening up an area where they would not have to have bonds and you would be able to deal with them on their impact to your to your capacity in your improved wetland regional bond is them. Whoever develops to the east. Yeah. I I mean it looks to me like we're and I'm part of the problem slow and realizing that we should be doing huge master ponds. No, Tom, we shouldn't. Okay. Well, I'll leave it at that. It just depends on the location. Seems like there's a lot of moving parts. There's a lot of impact mitigation that we need. Apparently, we're we we we need to or expected to do because of it a trade of about 1.25 acres for 1.25 acres. Let me in this case, we already have that area. We have the woodland city owns it. It's really minimal to make a but if we're talking citywide to buy land and to build ponds like that. We looked at that earlier just not too long. It's really pricey to do that. But in this case, we already have that area and we already own the land. So we're not having to purchase that or acquire that. So if I could, it seems like what we need maybe is some more detail and analysis on the numbers because I've probably seen or I I think we're trying we might we might be trying to put two final point on because again my big statement I'm saying tell me where I'm wrong. It seems like for whatever's been built, hasn't been built, this changes, that doesn't change, this changes. We're really trading one and a half 1.25 acres of a storm water pond for 1.25 acres of park space. That's to me the the thing that started this whole conversation and led to all the fine points. And I'm not sure that trade justifies too much analysis because I'm perhaps treating it too simply, but it's 1.25 acres for 1.25 acres. Well, and I think you could blame staff on getting into the numbers because we we wanted we wanted to pres we wanted to present the whole picture to the council and be able to justify the decision. So, we asked we asked the applicant to come up with these ledgers to say, "What are you getting?" Now, we didn't necessarily ask to get into the profitability of town homes versus single family, but they they they brought those to it. They brought kind of their whole, you know, the whole financial picture. And but yeah, gets complicated. And so, we had a development agreement under a certain set of ordinances. And Travis, you're right. uh you had a proposal that did not stretch the limits at all or even come close to the limits of the ordinance that was in place then but we've changed that ordinance and we've changed it for a reason and in fact we I can say we changed it in part to encourage TDR I mean we had a reason to be less aggressive on density to be um more conservative on density unless we went through the TDR process. So, whatever the reason was that we went from something that was this big and you only went this big, we said there's a good reason. The council said there's a good reason for us to go this big. And now you're saying because we started this big, maybe we should go from here to this big. Does that make any sense? Yeah. I I I disagree with your hands. Well, you haven't seen all my handles. Fair enough. But to go from to go yes it was this big what was allowed and we were roughly half of that. We're now going to this. So the 6.2 No, I wasn't to scale. 6.25 to 6.75 on the density and 60 to 65% on on the town homes. Fair enough. I mean that to me it'll seem minor. I don't necessarily agree with your one 1.35 acres of this but that's not the exact trade because I don't think you're looking at what would happen in the future without it up to the east. So what we're doing is making provisions by by running this pipe through. where it's a lot more land up to the east that will no longer have to be developed as those little mini ponds. So that's a benefit to a future developer, right? But you have the ability to charge whatever you want for the buy into that buy in the utilization of the regional. I suspect there's a nexus thing. I'm sure there is. I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure there is. There's got to be a reasonable nexus to it that the city can be made. This is this is annoying cost to the city. this is just simply allowing some trades and it's us showing to our our investors that even though this looks skewed in the city's favor, uh this this we we want we want to be a good team player and overall I believe this is better for us and believe it's better for the city. Okay, that point's taken. Um, but only if we follow through on it. Like you guys don't you're not you're not whoever comes along later to the east to the whatever to develop property. It's like go build your own storm or in fact let's pass an ordinance that says you can't build your own storm water because it's not a good idea from an engineering point of view. See you guys work that out because I see two different head knots. May maybe to address your other point, mayor, on the new on the new ordinance with with TDR and and lowering those thresholds, I do think for a subdivision that has already started construction that's designed around it, it is a little bit difficult to go back and and fit our existing code into a model that was built around a code previously. And so you can freeze it in time and say, "No, just keep it the same." Um, but if you want to make adjustments, it's that's that's difficult and a little bit impractical because I get right and and I don't think we should hold if we I don't think we should hold NibLy Meadows to the new ordinance necessarily, but we had a deal under the old ordinance and now Meadows is asking for a New Deal on our behalf, on our request. Yeah, I'm still trying to figure that part out. I mean, if it's all about trying to make money off of storm water detention ponds on future development to the east, pro that is a number I'd like to know. I don't think it's about making money. I think it's about dealing with the problem and dealing with the issue. And think of how many ways we have to raise money and deal with storm water issues as compared to how many issues and how many ways do we have make money on build parks. Yeah. I don't mean make money like a for-profit organization. I mean solve the storm water storm water problem and charge the people that are causing us the need to solve that storm water problem appropriately. just to be clear, there is no storm water problem on this develop. We vetted this thing true and true. We from the very get-go. We said, "Build your pond." Yeah. Find this groundwater. Make sure we're not in it. So then we were addressing all these things as we're building. Made any adjustments as we're building. So, we're not inheriting these these issues and nor is the development. Yeah, this is actually the first one that's actually worked since I've been here. And that's a credit to city staff. It's credit to engineering on Midley Meadows part two. So, I appreciate people on both sides of the table there. Can I ask a question? Yes. Sorry, I'm I'm going to be quiet now. the regional future regional pond, how how much more developments or developments could it take care of? Like it would be able to take all the storm water and then how many how much other development could it actually take storm water from? It could take like another development of this size or more than that. How much benefit are we going to get in terms of number of houses and neighborhoods? map roughly I believe to 900 west just like in between 9th and 8ish. So anything just so like he's down here and this the rigs too. Yeah as well and alcohol was kind of all that open space of the east all to 640. So, I can ask about the pipes. Are these um 18 inch? So, there's a 48 inch line going underneath 1200 West through here. I believe it's a 30 or 36 through Hawk Hollow. There was there's some that's coming down. There's 24 that goes to 42 and then hits at 48 going underneath, 1200. So, it's a lot of water. And we're okay thanks to approved 2514 for first reading. We have a motion and a second from motion from Nathan, second from Norm to approve this ordinance for first reading. Let's discuss maybe we're put a lot of effort into making this park bigger bigger. Can we maybe just talk to Chad or something and see like all right what can we do this just I mean nothing there but give me some money I'm going to just do a soccer build. I think you're one two acres you soccer building has nice stadium seating around it. Um but anyways sure we got a purpose for all this. Yes, I'll just pound that. One of the things for staff that one of the things that's new is we now have an open space master plan and recreation plan of when we take open space and we take and there's criteria that we use. I would normally like to see the parks and rec community go through that process using our plan for open space and parks. So, there's five things indicated in there that we're supposed to look at before taking them. um which includes priority mapping which this area is includes maintenance and costs includes the comparable development costs some other things like that. So I'd love to see parks and rec do that. I don't know if planning and zoning needs to as well but just getting insight from them. Yeah, at this point we've we've done that at staff. Is that something we could do at staff level or are you saying do we need to take that to committees because we that's that's kind of an analysis of um Okay. Yeah. Um things to think about. Aaron's starting to touch on this about the tradeoffs that um in that survey of creating that plan, one of the most requested amenities was by far and away splash pad and removing that. One of the lowest by far and away was club houses and event spaces. And so we're trading the opposite of what citizens have told us they want. Again, one of the things in that plan that we're supposed to consider is what our citizens want. So, is the trade we're making according to our plan? Um, I don't think that's something staff has to do. Something we just have to think about specifically. Um, we talked about that. We talked about that. I think I'm good for now. Yeah. Um, Travis, how what are your feelings about pickle ball courts? Yeah. Yeah. I I don't know if you like the idea of pickle ball courts instead of clubhouse. That's a personal preference. So you're asking for that specifically? I know it's personal opinion about are you thinking if Travis likes pickle ball courts? Do you like them as public amenities or private amenities? Thank you. I promised Tom, if I could just interject, I promised Tom that I would bring up that you did double the impact of these parks since we had this. I bring it up every chance I get. I promised him I'd do it again. So, just so you know, and you said talk him out of it, but So, for first reason, it's going to put back three weeks. Is this going to slow your your development? Okay, another another thing maybe before second reading put put heads together. You already said it. I'm just recapping the location of that dedication of rideway or road in the souththeast corner. Eric question for mostly Levi probably. Um current proposal for us is basically uh we have to put in piping stuff. So we want to change entitlements a little more density 22 more town homes. Uh mayor alluded to we've changed some ordinances since this was first approved because we want to inspire some things like TDR. I don't think that the level is on scale but we have conversations or look into instead of just trading density actually having a TDR discussion with buying whether from the city or someone else to increase the density here. Or is that are we is it is it too minuscule kind of feel for that number for that number of units? I guess it depends what your baseline is because if your baseline's five units I I yeah how do we how do we start that is the question because I I don't know how we start from five units if they were already entitled to six and a quarter. But if we if we add the 22 units I I don't know if it's too minuscule. I don't know how much how much so TDR credits on 22 units what that might take is that kind of what you're asking yeah the idea maybe it feels kind of small I have to work well It's it's about if it's city space, it's about 4 acres cuz it's five units per acre for for a recreational space. If it's non-recreational, it's three. So, it would be if you development rights for 4 acres. If if if we're using that again, if that's if you think that's appropriate, but I think in the end that that that could I guess further complicate this spreadsheet. Yeah, put more in there. Yeah, probably spent my time talking instead of yours. So, no. Ready for a vote on first reading? I see that as a yes. Seeing no opposition to a vote, I'll call for a vote. This would be to approve uh this second amendment for first reading. Bring it back for a second. Those in favor, please say I. I post none. Thank you. Tra I am dying for drink water. Yes. Oh yeah, Cheryl's dying. We didn't get your waters. Dang it. I knew we forgot something.

Council, next we're getting ready for a public public hearing adjusting uh excuse me, adjusting uh city boundaries. And we'll let Levi describe that for us. will and and actually I was just reminded before I say that don't need to talk about the last item born but I I I just want to mention there was a public hearing held as required on that item at planning commission but for this one uh it it does require public hearing at the time that this is this is um being considered the uh boundary adjustment between Logan and Nibi. This uh you should be have some familiarity with this because the the council um already approved a resolution indicating the intent to to adjust the boundary back in February, February 18th. Um the or sorry, February 20th. Logan City approved it on February 18th. Um, so this is uh just just as a reminder, this is on uh highway 8991 just just south of the business park there where where Maloof is located. Um, and just north of the 3200 South intersection. I'll show it on show it on the screen. And what is there's three properties that this impacts. Uh, two of them are are currently used as as residential and there's one vacant vacant property on the back side and the the applicants propose or is is proposing to adjust this the boundary between Nibi and Logan annex into Nibi city primarily because of access to utilities. um which are much more readily available here than they are in Logan City as they they're they're planning on developing a landscape business on this property. They currently operate um they they rent a property in just north of here and they and they they like to you know expand into this area. And so just as a little background, this this is in Nile's annex annexation declaration area. And up to this point, Logan City's indicated that they're uh cooperative with this boundary adjustment. So just a little little bit more context of where it's located there on the highway. So the pro the property um to the south, that's a residential property. There's a smaller one to the north. There's really just two property owners here and they both signed on to this this boundary adjustment. This is the plat that they've they've proposed the applicant for this area. when we look at zoning. So, this this was uh vetted by planning commission from zoning standpoint at their at their last meeting and and so as far as zoning goes, the future land use map designates this area as commercial. Um land land use goal one really emphasizes balancing different uses commercial residential light industrial in suitable locations and and then there's this commercial and economic development goal too create and maintain sustainable economic base for newly provide tax revenues and increase local employment and convenience of shopping. uh the the applicant has has proposed a commercial zone and staff feels this is this is right in line with with the general plan as and uh as well as planning commission uh staff's recommendation is approval of this ordinance to uh adjust the boundaries between the two municipalities and um adding these areas into into nibbly city as well as zoning these properties as commercial. Um planning commission's recommendation is approval of of the zone designation and with the findings that the proposed commercial zone is consistent with commercial designation the city adopted future land use map and the zoning designation would support commercial economic development goal two that I've mentioned previously. the applicant's here if you have any question for them. Um, and that's it. I'd like to meet the applicant, please. In fact, um, let's open the public hearing and let's include whatever you want to say in the public hearing. Are you okay with that? Yeah, that's great. I will stand out. Right. We're going to hear you one way or another. So my name is BJ Smith. I own the applicant is Fast Lane Properties. I own business canyon landscaping which operates immediately in any of the cities and we purchased this property a few years ago. This has been a long kind of patient road getting all the parties involved in cities and municipalities have the same vision which this makes a lot of sense because we're adjacent to the commercial uh park that's already there that you know and some other buildings are in and so we would come in and you know love to come into the city and develop a commercial building that would be you know similar to that type of location and zoning and it would look even better than what we Now we don't have we don't own enough property. So make sense to invest infrastructure to put in you know fancy. So uh and then the long longterm plan would be who knows maybe in 30 years after I retire there's some more commercial warehousing right now we get into our own place and not be renting any. So welcome to answer any questions. because it's part of the public hearing resuspect. Just tell us your address just because it's uh you don't have to live in where you live. I live in Utah. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. And the next item after the public hearing is actually discussion and consideration of this. You'll be around for that if we have other questions or you want to take part in that discussion. We welcome you that as well. Thank you, Mr. Smith. Any other public from the comment on this matter of the native boundary. With that, I will close the public hearing. And let's move to the next item. This is discussion and consideration of the same. You have anything else to say, Levi? No. Okay. Thanks. Council of the church. I have a question for So, you're doing the commercial. Are you going to be open to the public and see all stuff or is it mainly just landscape that you use to operate? So the the original intent initial be consistent with our current operations which is we don't public to lease that building. Uh the city did ask and we were able to modify for ADA standards in case there was visitors. Our foot traffic looks like occasionally once a week someone drops by to drop a payment or come in for a proposal we ask bid services but we sell out now longterm we potentially look at that for this location but selling landscape materials is a shorter season than doing the landscaping so I'm trying to find ways to extend end my season, not shorten it. So, it's at this point in my career, it's not on my road map. I actually operate some other other businesses and I'm choosing to put my focus on those than more than necessarily expanding service lines, but I don't want to say I'll never do that. It it seems like a logical fit. So, one thing I should mention, I meant to earlier is someone asked in the commission, there's a house on the property. There's an older like another farmhouse on on the on the highway side that currently has been a rental. Uh it was it was a previous rental by the Andersons. We've maintained that as a rental and you know that house would be need to be we got to figure out how we're going to propose that this the city one would be to still continue that as a rental uh in addition to the building we would build. Nat make a motion to approve speaking ordinance uh 2516 and wave first or second read. Okay, we have a motion. Is there a second? And that that's from Norm. And the motion and second is to approve the boundary adjustment and wave second B. Okay. Um I should have read this already. Are we assigning zoning as this comes in commercial? And so is that where we have the conflict between existing uses and what is permitted in the commercial zone? Yes, they would be legal. They would be legally non-conforming uses. Right. Yeah. Yep. So even if it's so it's a legally a a legally non-conforming use if it's annexed to the city with that use established. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That's fine. Because it was I mean it was legal one way or another. Yeah. So glad you asked that. Um the property in Anderson is 0028. I want to go commercial. wasn't discussion about the different zone for them. No, I mean we you could if you wanted to, but they've uh and and and you can you can speak to this if you want, BJ, because a a lot of this just came through the application. We didn't talk with them specifically, but but the zoning was proposed as commercial for the whole area with from the applicants. I I uh and they signed the permit even though technically I guess with my the percentages I could I thought they did sign it and from the time which we purchased the land they knew that like from a they of course want to continue their use and live there as long as they can. decide to sell. But to to them it makes sense and they understand that the future of this is a commercial corridor and at one point when they decide to move or sell that that would likely be the result and they're fine with that. So implications for an owner that goes from what they're current whatever they to a commercial from what I understand will be higher property tax rate. Is that correct or no? I've heard that. as Yeah. Yeah. It can it can increase property taxes for them. I know there's a lot of factors there, but with the use and if it's higher, you can always go in and talk to the assessor. Yeah. I mean, I guess there's a trade-off there, right? I mean, you get additional value for it being a commercial property. You get additional property tax. that? I think I think he's uninorporated. Would they still get the primary primary discount even if it you know that's a little outside of my expertise to be honest. This actually shows nibbly city corporate boundary including Gordon's 00007. Am I looking at that map correctly? Uh, this is the plat map. Yeah, this doesn't have Gordon's property. His well, his you can see his property for reference to the south because it does border it. That's Yeah, this is this is Gordon around it. Gordon Zillis, but That is I think that's an error on the map. Good catch. Maybe we have them. I don't know if we didn't catch that. I'm not sure if the county surveyor would, but but that that isn't I mean that that would be that is the proposed Nibli city corporate boundary. So maybe that's maybe that's what that's indicating. I But not in this proposal. It is cuz it would be this this is you can see my cursor. This would be the the city boundary right here. Right. So this is now this is Logan, but we're moving ours to include all of that. So that's our new corporate boundary. So, what's the side of 8991? It's fine print. Go down. Go left. New Logan City corporate boundary. Oh, so yeah, may maybe that does maybe that does need to be fixed to say new Nibi City corporate boundary instead of just Nibbly City corporate boundary. I I don't know. I well over here right that this says new this part. Oh, I see that's wrong. Yeah, that's wrong. Yeah, that's probably that that's a good note. I think it's I think it's an error on the on the plat changed is there opposition to vote? So the motion is to approve the boundary line adjustment and wave second reading. Since this is a resolution, we will call the roll, please. It's an ordinance. We'll call the roll, please. What are you doing, Tom? What is your vote? Council member Vanel, what is your vote? Council member Lowerson, what is your vote? Yes. Council member Larson, what is your vote? In favor? Four in favor, none oppose. Motion passes unanimously. Uh thanks for your patience. Welcome to Nibi. Thank you. Okay, let's move on to 12. This is discussion and consideration ordinance 2512. This is to reszone a parcel at 1500 west and 2600 south from R2 to commercial. This is the lower triangle. So, this being second reading, uh, I I think I'll start with staff's recommendation just just to remind you of what what staff and planning commission's recommendation was. Uh I unless unless you'd like me to I I won't necessarily go through all of the background information that that was given at the first reading, but just want to just want to reiterate um what what the recommendation is and and that is that for for this proposal, both planning commission and staff recommends approval of this reszone. Um and that that and the re the findings are that it's in support of the general plan the future land use map the economic development goal uh to to maintain sustainable economic base tax revenues and increase local employment convenience of shopping. I can I can provide more detail than that if you want a kind of reminder on this, but just wanted to reiterate what our recommendation was and why. Al, would you like to address the council on this, please? Um, if you don't think you need to sell it, I don't sell it. Yes. Brokers still um issue we've had here. The the commercial broker has asked what the delay and serve. Who asked for that?

give you a little bit takes each time I train deal with a lot of issues and the best way I can put this out is when you have multiple people you're dealing with it's a challenge so if if I have to go to Eric five parties on a sneaky plane you know everyone's dealing with different issues and that's what it is and so you have one issue you know we come up with one parties to throw everything into a little bit of a challenge and everyone has to be back on board back in the first week of January called us and said, "Hey, look, you know, the grocerers ready to go. Let's get going and have a little bit of time to put this thing together." So, we were ready to put everything together, try to get this and for January, we know you have to deal with negotiations. So Jared wants something and ask, you know, it's just a boomerang between all the parties and trying to keep everything there, but it was all positive. Um, and we're getting down to the last, you know, three or there was about three or four things that we're trying to do and the pressure was on trying to get from negoti to to get things in position and our attorney called this isn't good. He said we're really trying to resolve this roundabout. He says we're going to waste all our time on this commercial development trying to come to like a leading error. That's really what happened and it kind of blew everything to pieces. You got a condemnation from Nibbly City for the roundabout. Does anyone know what Al's talking about? I mean, this council would authorize legal action. I think what we said is here's our offer. If you accept if you do not accept this offer, we're going to pursue going to eat same about it. totally shocked us talking about the right parcel. Yes. So this has to do with So what happened is we tried to put the agreement together and we still felt that's when we do agreement with the application to change this over to commercial. Well, what's happened is the ghost has come back and says, "Well, you missed the timeline. We can do this again. We need to push out two years." So Stuart and Stuart said, "You know, he said, mayor, talk to them. We'll tell you exactly what's happened there and the challenges we faced." And so I think it'd be good work to call in there. But the challenge in here is when you put too many issues on our plate and trying to resolve it and try to come to it, it's taking a lot of our time and effort and energy trying to make, you know, on top of these things. Unfortunately, he keep it has come back to us and he said, "Look, you've missed the timeline. We can't do this right now." Stuart is very good in trying to trying to get things in there, but we missed a window and it's hurt and it's hurt all of us. And I think, you know, the thing that they're saying is they're trying to still put this together and that's why they said, you know what, give us a little bit more time and just table this and see if we can get this thing. That's all they're saying. I believe this council's motivation all along has been to separate variables. I don't think what happens on the eastern side of the propert has anything to do property has anything to do with the western side that was I am saying that and and and we have heard from you all kinds of bundles all kinds of well on the road master plan if you do this we'll do this and we'll do that and you do that and frankly that's not the way this council has to operate this can consider the proposals that are in front of it one at a time. you know, I'm a member of the council, right? Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that compliment. Honestly, is the council So students asked is he says they're still trying to pull this thing back and he said you couldn't be here tonight but he said you know what who's calling I'm supposed to call Steuart you're the real estate broker to do what? involved. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with Steuart D. Tell me Show us the map is for that parcel, this southern triangle. You don't know if you want this commercially. to it regression is a less than. And so whether it be, you know, the next couple months, the concern is this window got pushed out two years. Are we suspending this indefinitely or just till the next meeting? No, I think until our next meeting another two, three weeks. They've got some clarification. There's been some things happen since the last meeting that we need to put these things together with it was easy commercial help with that. It's already zoned. They don't have to do a reszone commercial. I'm just trying to see if district can figure out if we approved it tonight. Does that really hurt you? Well, send me some things like so if it gets things don't happen for a while then challenges in there and I I apologize but student just asked he said could we suspend it just to give and see if they can get to So, the council has the authority to zone this tonight, to reszone this tonight. It's up to you, you know, what you want to do. Um, but we have a right to zone our city. There's been an application made. We've operated in good faith on that application. The council has has the authority to as I understand a motion to delay it to next meeting to the next meeting. There's a motion to continue until our next meeting. Second discussion. I'm not sure that it changes anything for the city to delay a few weeks. just I know we want commercial in the city. There's a lot of moving pieces of what you get and take. I think he's he's working on it. It's going to go eventually. Next time we just don't have to do it. Take too much time other than So you Al showed us a statement from Bill Gasco, the potential commercial developer that said this is a piece of property that should be zoned uh zoned commercial. Why would we not take his advice? Okay. So, everything in place, you know, gone back and forth. Absolutely. 100%. We since the last council meeting just to show you, we spent six hours on going back and forth talking just walking through. building that met with the vulture and different entities within. So they're everyone's trying to put this thing together. It's not about trying to delay it. All they've got asked me is to ask the council to suspend it to give him a little more time to work with. Bill has not asked for that. Yes, he has for me. He did that in the meeting this week. He did. So you you don't believe me? You know that you he told me you don't believe me and that's fine. So I spoke with Bill yesterday and he told you that he's talking to me. He told me that anyway. She does. And and when you quote Bill, I have a right to follow up with Bill and what he meant and what he said. I have an email from your representative that says, "Yeah, please talk to the commercial developer." So, I have conversations with you. I have seen a concept plan for this piece of property. I don't know why we wouldn't resone it. It doesn't sell in the next few months, you got to pay back taxes. That's what he's asking. You just say, "Hey, it's going to go through. It's just a matter of when. Can't make this deal. It goes longer and I got to pay tax." So Al made an application for a lease. We didn't do that. Back taxes is not our problem. How much in back taxes do you have to pay if this reszones? The land use doesn't change. Just the zoning. We just talked about whether taxes are is based on taxes are based on land use. You told us it's based on $10,000. So if I liable, guess who pays it? We're liable. Now I can't in the agreement. Mayor, it says they will pay for the There is no agreement. Al mayor, there is no agreement. Bill told me the grosser has moved on. Yes, there is no pending contract. There is nothing for you to dangle in front of our noses. Bill would love to see it happen. Who you going to call? tell me about you do not have a contract with Bill Gasill.

You do not have a contract pending. You do not have anything pending. Bill told me the grosser has moved to a different location. We had a willing city. We had a willing developer and as you said the grosser got tired of waiting and tired of dealing with all the changes and he moved to a different location. Okay. Well, I think the city has the authority to resone it. I think you should do it. not motion. So yeah, discuss. Yeah. Yeah. Our motion is to suspend it for um Yeah. I mean at some point definitely this priority. So thoughts about on this application just we're talking about back system. zone to resone from the next meeting doesn't change. you will still have the same power authority to do so time but in three weeks we say decision fair point I the council to separate this issue from the next resone and I'm afraid that this is an effort to tie these two reszones together and I urge the council to do Ready to go. Ready to vote. Okay. Uh the motion is to continue this in our next meeting. Those in favor of the motion to continue, please say I. I. Any opposed? Okay. We'll come back to it. Thanks, Al. And next we have another reszone application. This is for the east triangle. You might as well stay up there. Alvi, do you have anything else to tell us? Well, maybe just orient you with with the area we're talking about here. So, this the current RM zoned area there is in in brown. The proposed um is is in kind of the reddish tint just as a backdrop showing what's proposed with the the current preliminary plat application uh which which is presumed to be you know approximately what would be built there. Although this is not this doesn't constitute any approval of that uh specific proposal. Uh just as a additional background, this is a proposed um the pre previously approved uh concept plan for the commercial development which was also included in this area and and this property was recently reszoned to commercial from R2. Um, you know, the staff, just as a reminder, looked at various uh goals within the within the general plan looking at this area, it is commercial and medium to high density residential. Given the limited um possibilities for for commercial and the benefits the potential benefits that come with commercial, it is both uh staff's and planning commission's recommendation to deny uh this this application. The first one again is is adding it to the map and then skipping forward to the next item on the agenda would be um you know enabling that that reszone. So both both the the planning commission and staff has recommended denial with the findings that uh first the the existing zoning is compatible with commercial medium to high density residential. The reszone may limit the potential to attain commercial and economic development goal two to create and maintain a sustainable economic base for Nibble City that will provide tax revenues and increase local employment and convenience of shopping. And the recently approved concept plan for commercial development on the property and its site context demonstrate potential opportunity for commercial development that would be less likely if reszoned to mixed residential. So that's it. Go ahead. Okay. So, on this one, um Trent's on the line here too because we we in our conversation last week, we talked a lot about this one, too. Um and and Stuart and Bill both, you know, Bill made the comment. You said go get Bill's comment on this property. He he said, "I would think that the pro proposed resone allowing for the towns to be built east of Heritage Drive and commercial south of 2600 South would be desired regardless." That's from his statement and you asked for a statement and I got it from and the issue in there is they can't put any commercial there. And so this was actually a longer conversation in here. When you deal with commercial property, you have a lot of different entities that are coming in looking at different things and and what Stuart said, we can't get anyone to come in in my conversations out there with them to do any commercial on that property because I can't get a a gas station. I can't get anyone to come in there because it's too far off the road and it lacks visibility. So that's why he said I would think that the proposed resone allowing for town homes to be built east of Heritage Drive would be desired regardless. So I mean that's that's the thing and then Stuart's saying things in there. Um after reviewing the existing site plans for the north side of 2600 South I believe that you need to zone the triangle piece east of Paradise Drive to residential. The layout efficiencies on that parcel are tough and you only get one solid pad, one solid pad and the others would end up going to non- retail pipe uses. The existing retail that we have been working on the 7 acres on the south side of 2600 South is where we need to put the retail pads. So that's from them. That's not from me. So that's where it goes. So said, "Let's put this back to retail and to retail retail the residential." My apologies, but I mean, we got the plat map in there and we wait for for this just so we can move forward with the church. We got one other thing on the slide note on the church I just emailed you on that we got to get a correction on. But anyway, that's again it's just to get to residential just so we can start on the residential piece. So I don't think Bill answered the question I was interested in because I asked Bill that question. Bill said he answered the question as to which was preferred, the east triangle or the south triangle. And I asked Bill specifically, and we've seen a concept plan from Bill that included the East Triangle. I said, 'Is the East Triangle of no commercial value? And he said, "Oh, it certainly is, but if he had his brothers and he said, here the property south of 2600 South is better as commercial." As if the only two possib There's only like one possibility here. pick this commercial or pick that commercial. But in fact, these two questions are not connected to one another. And Bill said the property to the south is better. And he told me yesterday, but the property to the east has potential. But the problem with it is is so you go out there, go out and tell Bill he's going to purchase that property, too. He's not going to purchase that property. He had a contract with you working on purchasing that propert. That's fine. That's my point. Bill expressed a preference for the south. He did not say that the east had no commercial potential and no commercial value. He said, 'If I was the city council member faced with this question, I would say if we have way more commercial property zoned than we'll ever need and it was a question of zoning this piece of property that's currently R2 to commercial or this piece of property that's already commercial back to some residential. And those are my only two choices. Zone this one commercial or zone this one commercial. Then I would pick the south property. But if I wanted to look at the long-term commercial economic potential development of the city, there's nothing wrong with the east property being zoned commercial. It has potential. And once there's a an anchor store and there's other things that could go in, we've seen the we've seen a plot plan. Bill Bill didn't say don't there's no potential commercial on the east. So I'm supposed to wait five years for that for something to come around. I've been waiting 35. I've been waiting 35. Okay. That doesn't work to continue making all these property tax payments. Okay. Nathan, I just I don't think we need to discuss. I had well you can make a motion and then we can discuss let them ask questions question about somebody the last one talk to Joel or not can we legally enforce two different zonies? I mean we can we do uh when it comes to well it it it regulates the the use and the development. So if the development straddled it, I guess then then you have to come into to issues like if you had a building for example where where do you where do you draw the lines? I I don't know the answer to that question but we have other examples in town where it splits the parcel. Now, it wasn't split on the parcel for this one, but there was a lot line adjustment, and we can't we can't um not allow a lot line adjustment based on zoning. But uh if this property isn't going to develop until it subdivides and at the time of subdivision that should be sorted out because they should if if if the council decides to deny this application they would need to draw the property line along the border of that of that zoning for any residential property. Does that make sense? So you're not going to I mean unless you're going to build one house that's in between the two properties which or or one commercial building then you would have to I think answer the question you're talking about but that's not in reality how this is going to happen. It's going to be through a subdivision and that would be drawn along the along those lines. if they want residential a residential development, it would have to be on that side of the the zone. Does that make sense? I Yeah, I just see we we can explore that question more specifically with the with the attorney if you'd like to, but um I don't see it as a big issue in this case because any of this development is going to be preceded by a subdivision which can follow those those lines. There's reason that subdivision still happen because they're going to have that secondary I mean, they can still build an access road. Or they could build 2500 south. That's another option. It's 2500 south to,200 west. That is so there's options for them to develop that property with with two access points. So in the description, it has the two separate parcels. the parcel of 00001 to 00002 because now the parcel viewer shows that 001 is not even yeah they they they've done a lot line adjustment since this this time u that's been reviewed by staff that's been approved but what's what's been noticed is what was in place at the time they submitted their application and and at the time uh it was originally considered by planning commission. So that those descriptions are based on what was in place at that time. But the area is the same. The pro the actual acreage and property we're talking about is the same just the lot lines have been moved. Um, so what happened was the brochure wanted to put the store around one runway and then they came back and changed it and so we went in and reszoneed coordinated to move everything into position there. The the grocery came back said well they want to flip the the direction of the store and so it flipped everything around on the commercial development so that this east piece wasn't really no longer in so much in play any longer. So they wanted more visibility on 2600 South and and on Highway 89 because they felt like people would come off 2600 South and go to the grocery store. So this whole issue has come back to what the grocery wanted and we followed directions and unfortunately kind of muddied the waters in here. So on this East Side Trent's online here, he's on Zoom. He's been involved with those discussions there too. Um he knows that the development on the east side I mean on commercial you know if Stuart says he can't get any people it doesn't matter they say it doesn't matter if we can't get any people east they're just sitting there it's all in can't do anything we're stuck what do we do what do we have to do just turn it back into green belt and start over you know we're trying do is push this thing forward and and get going on about it. That's what we're trying to do. And like I say, you've got the best the state's best commercial broker, Steuart Lane, here. So, we were making great progress, I thought, on a RM application that did not include this triangle piece. And what changed was I don't agree with that. I think we were making great progress. Let me but what changed and and if I can finish what changed was there was a sale of property on the east side of of your boundary on 12 West. So all at once you didn't have as much room for residential development and then the residential development spread out to this east triangle. So it seems to me that's what changed. So should I No, you sold the property to them or I assume you did. They filed an application. They filed an application. But it seems to me that this lack of space for the residential came at the same time that you sold property to somebody else. The church has been in place. We were working as a committee before that. But then you abandoned it and you kind of said, "No, you abandoned it, Al. You abandoned it when we got into ownership of the road and insisted that tiff was a guarantee. Motion to deny the red zone application. Is there a second? Is that a second? Yeah. Thank you, Eric. I don't see why we go against staff and planning zoning and against everything that's been planned previous to this change. So, sorry you said a reason application. This isn't a reason application. This is just adding that part to the RM. Correct. Yeah, but they're that's the maximum. I mean they're they're intricately related. So the motion is denied. Did I say these to deny the adding that? Yeah. Still would like an opinion of the attorney to make me feel warm and fuzzy about split zoning thing because it may there may not be issues for the city but I know from my work side it creates problems. So when I deal with this from my side as a title surgeon I just want to know what I like the attorney's opinion before this but you realize there's a subdivision that comes before any development. I mean a real subdivision through the city council type subdivision, not a title of company subdivision. Right. I also I also might remind you that if there is a problem, it was created by the applicant because they they adjusted the lot line. that lot line wasn't there until um House Bill 23 is supposed to fix, right? But we can we can ask I guess I just need to clarify what what the what the question is for for the attorney. I want to ask Joel standing split zoning parcel to what what's the precedence of what how that would go we can make that happen. Yeah, I make a substitute motion to for I think I mean it's all one partial here where you draw the line to put it back to do it change the lot land. So your most you do I I guess I just don't see the problem because you do that through sub you do Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. I just don't see the problem because they do it through subdivision. They can divide that property off through through a subdivision for residential development. Wherever you draw that line, as long as it's clear where that line is, and it is because it's drawn exactly along a previous property line, when they if and when they subdivide that property, they'll draw it along that line, that subdivision. I I I I'm just not seeing Well, regardless, we can we can get you in contact attorney. Okay. The motion we're discussing now is a motion to continue. I want to make sure I have all my debts low because this one could go to court. Okay. Um the and and my thing my recommendation to the council is to decouple these two results. Yeah. And I see it the to delay the first one and ask for this one. You know it's it's like a care and these two are not these two are not public as far as the city is concerned. Yeah. For me, it's just like the reason being. Can I ask this? Do you want the areas within Nibbly City that can be zoned RN to include this portion of a parcel? That's the question we're answering. And I don't resone this the map and like mayor said things have changed because there's been sell of land but when we re when we changed the map initially we already made this discussion said this is where we wanted it as a city and so getting the attorney and some of that but it's just we've already made this decision the proponent is the one that's come as for this Both staff and planning and zoning have recommended a denial. So why are we entertaining? Yeah, if this because if it goes to court, I want to know if you deny it, it will not have a chance to there will be no if we deny it. So to avoid I understand you want to know because it's useful information but I just I don't even see it as an option to entertain. So just deny it because people it was a good effort. He thought about changing it but we as a city on the line and both staff and planning What question would the court be answering? For me it would be two different zonings on a single parcel which would you know are we obligated that you know 3/4 of this is zoned RM but only portion of it commercial. So if this goes to court, does the court say, you know, would the court go, okay, you have two zonings on a single parcel majority and and so a plaintiff would be asking for what? Well, well, I mean, what's the best way to phrase this? Asking for in the parcel because the parcel has two different zonings. Which one gets enforced? the one that matches the development application and the sub as long as everybody else see this stuff all the time avoid it. Oh yeah. And deny avoid it. My question is is what do you want us to do with that to deny you still have to deliver off the table and start all over again? Take a crack. I want you to develop with the zone you have in the space that you have. What if it doesn't work? drain is the best interest of the city as a whole and to help you with the land. Well, I that's my question is I would I mean you guys have been great and we can talk about tons of things but we haven't got you staff or anything we haven't got. What we want is to say, "Okay, let's sit down through this and see what we can do to make this work for everybody." And so I just that's why I've gone to you and said, "Okay, let's sit down, walk through some ideas to make this thing work to help it out." But if it if if we have we have spent a lot of money on it and we just can't continue forking out money and say it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I can't go back to my family and say, "Let's spend another $7,500,000 $100,000 redesigning this on something that there's no certainty that we can do, but we have supported your family in a way, maybe not the way we wanted, but you have the most entitled property in Newly City right now. If your family wanted to sell it, they could. So, some of us would have to sell it." I'm saying to do I'm saying that you have a very entitled property and that if you are at a point where you don't know what to do financially or can't get things to work that is an option also that we cannot control right and and basically it's getting us into a position where we have to peel back everything and say we can't continue forking out all this money I mean just the delay the last three years $225,000 us. Okay, our family is bare. I don't fall on our own, but we've we've taken on that. Now, you don't see that, but we tried to make things work. If he came to this, I'll guarantee Nathan, this isn't a threat, but my family just say, "We're done. We'll walk it out because it's it's not working." and they would say, you know, we want the commercial there, but if we can't get things to work with the city, one board will just say, you know, I I go back and ask the board to spend more money on the side of work. So, this has nothing to do talking about RM resource. No, don't tie those two together, Al. So, let me ask you this question. Are you saying that you spent $70,000 on engineering design for a pro a project that was not entitled by zoning? You said you spent $70,000 on engineering and now you're just going to throw that away if you don't get this reszone. So, in other words, you spent $70,000 designing a development that you were not entitled to by zoning.

practicing those checks and hoping that they do. Now, we haven't finished everything because that parcel still. So, all we're trying to do is make it work. If it if it if the council says, "Hey, look, we you know, you know, we're going to let you do it." I don't see really any to do. I mean, if someone has an idea and says, "Hey, look, let's do it this way." I'm looking to continue just forking out money and just chasing wild dreams. We're trying to put something on the table that's solid. And you have the best people in the state, a commercial developer is Steuart Le and he says, "Hey, look, we need this. This has nothing to do with commercial. We're talking about residential reasoning." Okay. But you you your staff just said this needs to be commercial. But they do these negotiations with commercial information. You said it needed to be commercial. You asked for a commercial resolution and you talk about changes. No, things haven't changed. Changes haven't been made made the commercial developer afraid of anything. And so we backing everything trying to get those get the position. then wanted to switch it and so they can get this thing to go through. But the thing they build Stewart is the one that has to sell. Sorry. The motion substantive motion is to delay the continue tolerance meeting. I see that we are. Those in favor of continuence, please say I. Those opposed. It's a tie. I'll post. motion on the table is now that it so can clarify. So the motion before the council is to the substance. So we go back to the original motion which is to deny the modification of the RM map. Is ready to vote? Those in favor? Those opposed? So, it's a ties to the two. Uh, I vote to deny the modification of the RMF. to work with. And why does that not surprise me? Thank you, Al. With that, we're going to go on to the next one. You can say it then. When did you send this email? When did you send this email? Oh, thank you. Sorry, I haven't seen it. Anyway, that needs to be correct. Staff, can you look into that? Next item in the agenda is a request for reszone of this east triangle from RM to from commercial to RM. Motion to deny or second. Second from Mary discussion. Those in favor of the motion to deny, please say I. I post. So the motion to deny. It's Yeah. right. How long is everything? Uh let's have Levi give a introduction if you guys are okay to press through. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh you may have heard that we we did have a discussion with one of the one of the proponents of this um of this annexation that they wanted to postpone it. However, uh there today um staff had a discussion with the the other proponent um who's under contract for for one of the properties in this uh in this annexation proposal. And I'll I'll let I'll let them speak to it directly, but they've they've asked there's been some new information. and they've asked to continue this rather than rather than just uh you know denying it or or I guess withdrawing the application. So I don't blame you if that yeah playing with heritage land development. Um yes we've been kind of back and forth. There's a little bit what we're looking at doing is continuing with the annexation, just a change of ownership on some of the parcels and we would continue with the discussions we've had on the road improvements. um those wouldn't change at all, but we would like the mixed residential, we would have that just zoned as the R2A that was um proposed before. So, it's recent changes and so we felt like we weren't prepared for a vote tonight and just asking to have it postponed to the next meeting. Okay. Um All right. So, there's a motion from Norm to continue this at our next meeting. Second from Garrett. Uh, are there things the city needs to do staff specifically for us to get ready for that discussion? I mean, there's the thing about the road, right? The the short road, the short part of county or just and I assume you guys are working on that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And Blaine's been part of those discussions as well. Yeah. We just want to get those numbers ready on our side versus Okay. the other side. We can I just um if they change the zoning, do we have to do basically a new public hearing and things like that or Well, the current uh proposal on the table is what they are proposing, which which is in line with planning commission and with what was passed at first reading with the R2A zoning. They're they've just they've just expressed that they're in support of that of the R2A as as planning commission has recommended and h as you pass in the first reading. So no, I don't think so. zoning 04 to 10 and 11 were R2A, but I thought I heard that they were considering reading 13 R2A correct which is which is what which is what planning commission recommended and what council approved for first reading. So they're just saying they're not pursuing at this time the RM. So thank you. Does that sound right to you? Yes. Thanks. Okay. We have a motion to continue to the next meeting. Uh any problem with voting? Seeing no opposition. Let's uh those in favor of continuance, please say I. I. Any oppose? None. Okay. Early on the agenda. Yeah. I'm not sure you wanted to learn everything. Still the next one should be short. Should be short and easy. All right, Levi, let's do item 16. Discussion consideration of extension for fireplace. Yes. So this uh the applicant is also here for that one. Heritage land development. Uh but they that within the for whatever reason within the Firefly Estates uh development agreement there is a five-year expiration for for the approved preliminary plat that and I didn't see anything statutoily that that was required but it is in the agreement. So, the preliminary plat as of as of now expires on May 27th, 2025, so toward the end of this month. And they're not quite ready to submit their final plat for phase three. Um they're they said they're pretty close. Uh but they they'd like one one more year. So, that's what this would do is give them another another year to submit their final plat. Otherwise, they would have to resubmit for a preliminary plat. Second on the one year extension motion from Norm, second from Garrett. So on this and I brought up with him when we approved sorry that they would do a nibly sign coming into where we're going to finish a road and stuff. I Yeah, I looked at development. I had some time earlier in the meeting.

survey survey. just going to the gym. Everyone back. Okay, we're back in session and one. Next item is workshop on the budget coming up 2526 budget. Dustin, take it away, please. Okay. Well, this will be the first of four times that you see the budget so we can make this pretty quick. I'll try to blow through it and answer any questions that you may have. If it will advance click on Okay. So, just a reminder is how we've standard practice in our budgeting has always been to budget our revenues lower than what we really expect and budget our expenses higher than we expect. And we've done a good job of this and typically we spend about 75 to 85% of what we actually receive. Now that number is specifically from the general fund. So because we revenue high but expenses low or sorry opposite it's late. Um we're able to put away a little bit of money is what that amounts to. And well I'm sorry I really I'm struggling here for a second. We received about 105% of what we budgeted in revenue last year and we only spent about 4.3 million. So we always want to do the grants. We press hard to get grants. We have a whole list of grants here that we've been working on over the last four or five years. I don't want to go through all of these, but just to show that we we do put a large emphasis and do a good job of trying to bring money into the city from outside sources. And I looks like I failed to fill those numbers in. and I'll have those numbers in for the next time. Um, property and sales tax is always a big part of the budget for the general fund. We're looking this year at a 2 to 3% increase on both of them. It's not a very big increase based on economic uncertainty with things are going on. Amy and I had a lot of discussions about what to do with the sales tax, but we really uh felt we'd leave it pretty low in increase. that was reaffirmed with just the last report we got for the month of Feb February March February and March sales tax sales tax is always two months behind. So one of those months we were we were down quite a bit 20 $30,000 from even the month before. So, we are seeing a little bit of the economy cooling off, but you know, with the anticipated growth, we're feeling comfortable with bringing in about 1.5 million in sales tax, property tax. In the past, we have always really underbudgeted how much we were going to receive. We tried really hard to do a fine tooth comb on that, try to get to a more accurate number last year, and I missed it by 2%. Unfortunately, it was 2% too low. Oh, I wish it would have been 2% the other way because we we're looks like for the first time in at least my experience here at Nibbley City, we're going to receive probably a little less or like to the wire of what we actually budgeted for property tax. So, long story short, we're not expecting um big change in property tax or really revenue coming in coming into the city from last year to this year. We have built this budget based on no truth in taxation process or no raising of taxes for the state definition. That said, that doesn't budget a lot of money to put into savings. where we will have extra money to put into savings or into our capital projects will be if we get more sales tax than we anticipate or if we spend less than we have budgeted which has always been the case like I said we try to always spend less than we budget. So there is usually quite a bit more than what we budget moving from the general fund into the capital projects, but this is the tightest I've seen that number. That number right now in the budget is sitting about $100,000 moving over to the capital projects, which is considerably lower than where it has been in the past. But again, because of the revenue we've received, part of that was uh 2900 South discussion. Part of that was um more uh interest that we've had in the past. So there's a few reasons why we have more revenue coming in, but we're not budget and I've had this internal struggle about being more transparent and showing the citizens that we are intentionally saving money and putting it towards capital projects. And Tom and I had a good discussion today about our capital projects master plan and showing the residents more clearly that in we are budgeting for these expenses and putting this money away for a reason and it's to replace the public works yard and building and to replace city hall so they can see that money is actually pegged and moving towards a future project as opposed to just being money that's left over and getting rolled into a list of projects. So, I' I've kind of had this internal struggle the last few months as I've been working on this trying to figure out how a good way to explain that and show that and be more transparent because it looks like we're rolling a whole bunch of money in capital projects and we are, but it's just kind of it's not really obvious that that's happening in my opinion. So, I'm I'm trying to work on that, figure out a good way to show that. Some of the big changes we're seeing in the budget are salaries. Most of this is from the compensation study that was done a few months ago. that reset a bunch of salaries. We had enough cushion in this current fiscal year to cover that. We're going to be down to the wire on those funds. It'll be really close. Moving forward, we are proposing right now about a 3% cost of living adjustment and a 3% possible merit for the employees. There's a good spreadsheet going around right now where other municipalities are inputting their what they're going to they're planning on doing it and most most of them are pretty close. I would say we're a little on the high end which is where I would personally like to be just by that I mean mothers are 25 2.5 on their cost of living and and the same for their merits. Some of them are just doing cost of living and no merit. There's a whole range of things, but right now this this budget is built on the 3% cost of living and the 3% possible merit. I haven't checked I think did we look at the at the PCI number? Are you with me on that? Well, yeah. Look, I'm pretty sure we're really close to that. Some of the other big funds that are uh increasing or expenses, excuse me, that are increasing or insurance. Insurance is tied to salaries because our salaries went up a lot. There's a fair amount of things that are tied to salaries. So, as our salaries go up, other things go up. IT services, security, and IT is going nuts. We made a big jump last year. We're likely to see another big jump. We're negotiating and discussing with our IT consultant right now about how to handle that, how to manage that. You guys are aware all your computers just needed to be upgraded. Some of those things really haven't seen in the past. We have just in the foreshadowing of the future a little bit. When we got a bunch of COVID money, we paid to put a fiber to this building into the public works and then paid for five years of service. That five years is up next year. So, we got one more year. Then, we're gonna have to start paying for our fiber service and we're going to have to look at some discussions there because I believe that's anywhere from 5 to 700 bucks a month to maintain that service is what I've been told. Now, we may be able to cut back on some of our other Comcast things like that, but so utilities, specifically internet is continuing to go up. We had we'll have an election. This bank charges are going up. Number of credit card swipes is going up, which is super nice for ease of how we pull money into the into the city, but also it comes at an expense. So, we're having to pay those credit card fees. Those are all going up. We already talked about 911. We increase that fee that's being passed into the 911 dispatch center. The sheriff's office is we're mayor and I have met with the sheriff's office. will be bringing a proposed contract amendment to you next meeting that proposes a small increase. Our garbage goes up every year with the index uh the consumer price index library. You just approved a contract of it going up quite a bit. We got a couple of master plans that we're working on in the middle of those continue to be increasing costs. The other one is education, travel, and training. And I throw that on there because we you're gonna see some increase because we have some targeted licensing and training. We want to get some of our few employees, but we've actually cut back pretty drastically as a whole on people going traveling to destinations, you know, further than Utah to be able to receive these education training, which we've always tried to do a good job of supporting and trying to get our people out there to get learned, get or to go learn and be trained. but it's it's very expensive. So, in kind of summing all that up, we're looking about a 4% increase in the general fund, which isn't huge. We do have a few proposed capital projects. None of these should be any great surprise to you except for maybe 2600 South. There's an issue between 800 West and Her or excuse me, Nibbi Elementary, the sidewalk being too narrow. So, as we've talked with the school about trying to make safety improvements because kids are riding their bikes out in the street. They're on the sidewalks. There's cars being parked there. We're proposing doing some improvements there with some new wider sidewalk. Clean up the park strip. Put in a a decent swell and clean that up a little bit. They're I think that's really probably the other ones are pretty small. We need to repair the floor in the public works shop, the street shop. The problem with the floor is it's not sloped enough and the salt from the trucks and the water is not getting to the drain. It's eating the concrete chips and bunk some stuff up. So, we need to make some modifications and some improvements there. Anybody got any other questions about those? Real quick, I'll just point out that 2600 project was identified in the active transportation plan. So, you have kind of seen at least some form of it. We talked about it then. and we give them more welcome things throughout the next month and a half. We we'd really appreciate that. Correct. Yeah. We we're not talking any rideway acquisition here. We would be moving the sidewalk from where the back of the walk is now towards the asphalt if we did. So, if we approve this project, we'll we'll we'll do a whole public notification campaign and go talk to these residents and kind of show them what we're thinking, make sure they're okay with it and understand potentially. Yeah. I mean, we're always looking for that option and I know that stuff's coming up again, right? You mean like like say routes to school? We can look we can see what is available to school. Now, we like you said, we built this budget pretty conservatively. We're trying to keep our expenses down, not increase things drastically, but we do have some, you know, you know, needs, wishes, if you will, things that we're looking forward to someday being able to incorporate into the budget. One of those is additional employee for the streets department and storm water. They actually asked for that last year, but we just not quite got the room in the storm water fund and or the general fund to be able to squeeze out another employee. So, we've talked about some maybe some mitigation strategies there and what we could do. We feel like we could survive probably at least for another year. Recreation department could use some more help as always. They do a phenomenal job. There's so much there to do. We just have to decide really if that's where we want to invest our money, but it's not currently, sorry, these none of these things are built into the budget right now. Um, we talked earlier about the GIS and the appreciation of GIS, how amazing that is. Well, the next step on top of that GIS is actually software that will is asset management that can tie work orders and problems and issues with a particular piece of the infrastructure. And as time goes on, you're able to more intelligently look at your system and put your money where it needs to go and to get the most bang for your buck. But in order to utilize that software with the best well, I don't say the best, but we're you're looking at $25,000 a year to be able to implement that software. So, as as amazing as it would be, we're not quite sure we ready to pull that trigger and we're looking at other options to see if we can find cheaper ones or we're able to do something else. We've also had some discussion about security and cameras in the parks. We have no money budgeted in this budget for any phase. We were on phase three basically of our security upgrade. Water shop needs a roof replacement probably in the next few years. There's some specialty equipment on that goes on the backhoe with the a bull prick which is kind of a really giant jackhammer that would allow us to break apart obstacles when we're a lot of times when we get down on these water leaks and on these they've built thrust blocks and if thrust block is a giant block of concrete sometimes that concrete gets up over the fittings and makes it difficult to do our work. So you got to break it off and get out of the way. Wood chipper. We used to have a wood chipper that was used quite frequently, but it was tied to the Ford tractor. The Ford tractor went down and wasn't worth the money to replace the Ford tractor, so the chipper kind of went away. So, we're looking at replacing that. Our skid steer is pretty old. We use the skid steer extensively during the summer and in the winter time, we use it to plow sidewalks. It's going to be need replaced in the next few years. The hydraulic saw is pretty expensive, but it's a it's a pretty huge safety thing. And as you kind of heard tonight, Jared's I mean Jared lives, breathes, and dies safety. One of the most dangerous things that they do is have to take a chopsaw or circular saw and cut pipe. This is a hydraulic saw that bolts to the pipe. You're not holding it in your hands. You're not really over the saw. A lot of a lot of injuries happen where saws will bind or kick back and hit people or hit people in the legs. So, but it's it's like a $30,000 saw. Is it shear instead of rotating blade? I think it's I honestly I'm not sure. Couldn't tell you for certain what exactly how it works. The other big one that we're looking at is the uh vac truck. You saw how important that was tonight. We do have a very nice piece of equipment. We work hard to keep it nice and as he mentioned, they they do wear out. They're very the the work they do is very um abrasive and very it just it's difficult to keep those maintained. So you want to stay on the upper end. An issue with trying to stay on top of that is you have to commit and sign your name on the line to get a new one coming right now in about a year and a half ahead of time. So sometime in the next 2 or 3 years, not we haven't done it in this budget, but in the next 2 or 3 years, we'll likely be coming to you with the next phase of okay, let's sell the vac truck cuz it's got the most value now that we can get out of it and roll it into a newer piece of equipment and how much that's going to cost. So So those are all all those things are would be nice for us just to snap our fingers, make happen, but they are not currently built into the budget. I know that super fast, super high level. Want to see if you have any questions, give us any direction, any guidance that you would like to see in the budget. We'll do a a better, more smooth presentation the next time and the next time. And then the fourth time it'll be pretty polished. Oh yeah, I have got I will bore you to death with spreadsheets if you want me to. Oh, that's a that's a good school like and then the crosswalk on 3200 we have cross cars that actually be packed out of the school and see where all Now you realize they're asking us to give them 200 and I'm saying yeah I'm saying we're going to keep it and this is how we're going to spend. Yeah, that's a that's a good point. Now impact fees are very very tied and very regulated. So we'll do our best to make all that happen. That's a great idea. That said, one of the other and big items is development and how that impacts and affects the budget. We tend to budget kind of how we I have a spreadsheet built that I sit down with Austin. How many town houses do we build last year? How many single family houses? How many condos? And try to make a guess on what we think we're going to do upcoming. We try to be conservative on that. and then that number of town houses and and single family homes really ripples through the budget in all of the impact fees. So that being a particular one, that's a great point. Maybe we need to look at that number and see if we need to adjust that because that's not really anticipated. We're just looking at houses and town houses. So, good point. Good catch. It's tough. Yeah, but like I said, we we we tend to be pretty conservative there. Yeah. I don't know what the council's doing in the stomach for truth and taxation. Been a while. If if Justin's estimate, it's probably good is good. We're about 25% off of some magic target of 1600 of

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keep asking for money for the new well and the tank and stuff is You said you were saving 2.4. Yeah. Yes. We like I said that I think we're a chai. I'm personally okay with that if you are tried to bump all the maintenance accounts about two to 3%. But really, you know, salaries, those maintenance accounts, and then some of the non-EP departmental insurance, it those are really the big changes that amount to that 4% change. It's good job. There's a lot that goes into that, but the good news is I it's a the work accumulates and carries over to next year. Is that right? I mean, if you had to the first time you had to do a budget, it's a lot to pick up on and learn. Yeah. Well, I'm still learning a lot for sure. Amy's been a great help. I really focus on the numbers. Amy really focuses on the information. And I I forgot to apologize again for the late PDF. Man, we struggled struggled to get that PDF. Amy put a ton of time to make that document. changed there. I don't know. It's there's like this gremlin. I know what tab it is. Out of 20 tabs, I know what it is and I don't know what it is on that tab. I've recreated that tab and gone to 27 other places in the document that reference back to that tab, but I just we I couldn't get it to print. Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty I it's been a long time since I've been that stumped in Excel. Okay. Well, thanks. If you don't have comments or questions and we'll move on to folks. Maybe if I just say the last thing is again this is just a continual process over the next month and a half. Please reach out to me if you have questions, if you want to come in and sit down, you want to go over things, talk about things. I I could spend 12 hours a day for the next month and a half if you want to on this budget. So, please, if you have questions or issues or concerns, come talk to me. We don't you don't need to wait for a council you be dead? I'm good. I got to break that up. One thing, generator got installed. We'll be testing that pretty soon for city hall. This is a backup. That's backup power generator. Have we got the one public works in yet? We have couple questions. Uh, one, if anyone had any clarification on a letter they received about warning citations for people school, have you seen the letter? No. Confirmed that um it was mostly citations that informed people that issuing. You said citations. Warnings. Warnings. I heard something something about heritage and people for something for 30 minutes and when they came out a bunch of warnings on their cars and parking there and they were mad and they're mad because they kept the sand and she says there's huge signage saying you can't park here. Yeah. Get some clarification. Yeah. So, so there was a special event at the school and um Evan Evan happened to go by and see a bunch of cars that were parked illegally. So, he did. Is there a sign that says no parking? Uh I there I mean I get there are there are places where there's no parking. I think where they were they were in the park strip or in the bike lane which is illegal. So, no one got cited. Um there were warnings. We we discussed it and and one thing we realized is because they did get a special event permit that we could do better is when including schools when if there are special events, we needed to do a better job at ensuring they've got places for people to park that's legal cuz that wasn't really something that we discussed with the special event permit. So, I think that could help in the future on something like that. We've also talked about 3200 style. So, I mean, it it's it's illegal to park in a bike lane. It's illegal to park in the park strip. Uh there's some areas where we're we're talking about delineating the bike lane from where it's parking because the bike lane is so wide. Not necessarily by heritage, Uh maybe I mean they're building quite a bit of parking with the middle school so I don't know and and they're going to have on they're going to have probably adequate width on the through road to have on street parking there. So I not necessarily I mean middle school kids don't drive so that helps and don't that in between wasn't sure what she was referring to. Could you send me the letter most of the time in education and people know what the rules are. I think it proves something you said, Levi, and it's not true for everyone, but people are just as mad about warnings as they are about citations. They are. And you told they're not. And you know, some people are. In fact, I had a guy I'm going to just add on that. He he called me, left me a message. He's mad and hops because he got a parking citation. And I he described I said, "Man, I thought for sure we were just going to do warnings on that." When I called him back, it was a warning. Uh the only other question I had five and the adjustments we're doing on MS, is there an opportunity to make those adjustments to existing mounds, turtles, triangle, whatever we call them? islands. Mountable islands. Mountable islands. Is there is there what would it take? I guess I'm trying to understand what required for us to make maybe those adjustments to the existence. Yeah. Does that require us to have three of us ask for the resolution to come up to make a change to that? Guess I didn't want to know what the cost was going to be. Is Yeah. So, I'll I'll I'll explain my thought on that. What I have to go on is what the council voted on. So, as long as the council says, "This is what we're going to do for the next year," then that's what I'm going to put on the agenda for the next year. But if you know, you make a case or certainly if three of you say, "I want this on the agenda," then it'll be on the agenda. But until I hear a clear proposal for an agenda item, I'm going to do what the council told me to do. Just my two cents would just be let's see how the new ones go because if we put the new ones in and people still hate them and we end up changing them all at some point. I don't want to change it multiple times. That was exactly my thought. Let's see if the modifications Tom described make any difference but it's all except for one question. So, next week I got an email about the APA. Our day is just the one day, right, that we signed up for. I I signed you up for the whole thing. If you only want to come one day, that's fine. Uh I think for planning commissioners, the the price is the same or and or city council for for officials. So, yeah, it's Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Thursday is a full day and that and that has kind of the citizen planner track. Um we're also going to be doing a few tours starring Tom going to 1200 West as part of that tour. We're going to highlight 1200 West to the planners around the state. I'll be doing Logan's job, too. Yeah. And Andy's going to be highlighting some projects in Logan. I mean, they'll be there as well. We're also we're also going to highlight Morgan Farm on a tour on open space preservation, agricultural. Roxy Roxy and Mike and her daughter is going to speak at that. So if any of you Yeah, you you you can sign up for them just when you go to the conference. But if anyone's interested in going, I can let you know when when those are if you want to reach out. Even if you just want to show up to the tour. Yeah. Subdivisions are we? No, that's fine. No, because that's right. Lack of time. Yeah, we had to narrow it down and not just focus on nibbly. It's Anyway, can I real quick, Eric, I just How do we get what's the best way to move forward to answer your question about the zoning? I feel like it'd be fine if you just want to call Joel and talk to Joel yourself or do you want us to set that up and be there with you or how do you want to Okay, we'll get we'll make sure you have his contact or write the question down. Get the email from Justin. Justin, you can let Joe know it's coming so we end up in spam box or I think that that can help so we know we're getting the right question. Yeah, we don't want to get the the wrong question to them. There's a lot of nuances. Here's a report from Aaron. She was curious if uh Nichol has the city flower. She do now. She has a species.

Maybe add it to the city flag. Sounds great. Salt Lake City took the sego lily. Appreciate all this. I think I know we got a lot of commercial meetings all getting put in there. I just wondered what uh discussed some time was what we do as a city to help attract to commercial land or maybe change some of incentivized by density like going up like four stories and like different things there. I know maybe experimenting too that might be worth the discussion sometime and maybe get a consultant come in just say hey this is the trigger we want to be here help us one of the there's a couple efforts there that might not happen as quickly one of them especially as we'd like but the general plan update is going to look seriously that what is our commercial potential? Um what's our sales tax leakage? You know, we're a different town than we were 10 years ago. What are you know, do we have enough properties in commercial? Not. It won't necessarily be how do you sell or market your city or commercial? I I'm not sure those have ever been very productive, but it would hopefully help us answer the question of how do how do we look at tracking because we had that one and what do we want in the first place? Anything did the study and asked and kind of said, "Hey, your city would be attractive for these different types." But I don't know how if there's something that we can We should dig that back out. I did. Yeah, I pulled it back out. I mean, I've sent it to them. Yeah. The other one is Highway 165. stuff that what's 165 turn into what should it be when we get pushed off of 165 like we get pushed off of 8991 how much commercial is there along 165 not only for but Providence Milville Logan is in on study so I just know some cities to track big box stores they send a by just letting it in but just just something to think about. There's there's there's definitely a lot of different methods and approaches we can take with economic development whether the folks that are the CRA are worrying about anything right now. Yeah, maybe we discussed that. That's something to dig into. Yeah. Thanks. Uh Tom, I just remembered. So, I'm going to go back to actually an agenda item, but Becky's boss with the uh that she works with on pollinator habitat, a a a person named Mindy Wheeler, not federal, but she's the state of Utah rare plant expert. And Becky said, "You should talk to Mindy. She could probably guide you on what has worked with the federal fish and wildlife and what hasn't. And if you remind me, I will I'll get a hold of Mindy and see if we can pick her brain. She's a good she's a good person. Be great. Yeah. So, it' be, you know, like somewhere between Nibi City and federal government is state of Utah. And she might have some ideas about how to get this done. Uh, the tree planting was pretty exciting for Becky and all the volunteers on 150 trees at Firefly. I was off on pirating, so I was in trouble for a while, but it was kind of cool because we had this meeting with Jensen Sheriff right at the end. He said, "Hey, do you have some work for people to do?" And Dustin put an effort into it and Tim RmIrez put an effort into it and it it was like it was really great. There were like seven different seven individuals came out on a work release program. They're they they're not in jail. They're not inmates. They just need community time and they were great workers. Uh Tim said they should do more of that. I agree. They're looking for those kinds of projects. got another batch of photos from Randy Feeser. So, you Yeah, as soon as I Yeah, I will. And you'll forward them to Tim and I'll go somewhere else. This is about engine brakes on 30. The guy is beside himself. It's just tearing his life up and they know it. So they just pummel it when they come through. They see him out there and they just uh that's it for me. Thanks for the discussion. Thanks for all your work. But there's no distance and no attention.