Nibley City Council- 07/31/25

>> Sure. And do they want that in the public record? >> Yes. table. >> Um, will you need copies of it, please? But it doesn't have to be right now. My name is Besmeer 2890 in the beach subdivision and I just wanted after the last city council meeting when there were comments shared. It was really nice to know that video could express more and more from that kind of their standing and what they learned about this and then to talk to and it felt like there was a willingness to work together and one thing that needed that um evening meeting where you just welcome community members to come was instead of just telling us no you're opposed to this offer for the solutions. And so I just wanted to echo Jared's sentiment. Um I think there are a lot of people including several here tonight that have taken a lot of time to come up with some other solutions that would provide what the city's looking for and also community is asking this meeting. So I don't know how I go about doing that. I know people come they want to come together and say here are some things that we found and created and those possible solutions instead of just saying we don't like it. So um that's and back to you. Thank you. >> Chris Ashmire fellow west 890 south. I just have one question. It's possible. Is there a way that we can create another group of representative one or two each of the surrounding areas the loop and all the neighborhoods and kind of brainstorm in the meeting on how well it work with developer well with the city. Is there a precedent for that? Is there a way to go forward with that? And there's a lot of good ideas sitting out here and the developers working really hard to keep the city happy and bending over backwards doing different things. So I feel like there's a lot of solutions. Um it's probably something you done before or can't do. I don't know. I need that I have an answer to that now or that's something you guys want to uh we can try to give an answer. Levi explain to us the state given rights of a developer to have a application processed >> right. So um anyone can anyone can sub submit an application to reszone property which which they have and once once it's submitted then it's considered by the planning commission and then and then the city council in a timely manner is I mean is that what you're looking at once that once the property is zoned >> the city has set a set of rules and guidelines that they need to follow and at that point it's what's called an administrative approval. So, if they meet all of the all of the codes and guidelines, then they're entitled to an approval of that. >> I think you're saying it's up to the developer. >> No, no, it's it's actually up to the city. It's up to the Well, the if the developer submits an application which meets the city's rules, then then they're entitled to an approval. However, what's being considered tonight is a legislative decision of the city council um and with the recommendation from the planning commission who heard it two weeks ago. So, so the typical process when we get a reszone is uh to put it on the next available agenda for the planning commission, hold the public hearing. Uh the public hearing tonight actually was is uh isn't necessarily required by state code but but is is allowed and so there was a public hearing held at city council as well but um that's in the current process with reszones that's the opportunity for the public to to voice those concerns. There's no there hasn't been a formal process like like what you're talking about in the case of a reszone. And so I guess that's what that type of >> well no the council is still involved. So a legislative process means that the legislative body which is this council has an opportunity to say yes or no. The council through a legislative process created the code that allowed this application to be made. Okay. The council didn't have to allow that code to be written. The council did. However, another legislative process is the reszone process where the council can say yes uh we will do this reszone or no we won't do that resone. >> So I I get the like ultimate decision ends up here. I think that's what you're saying, right? No, I'm trying to separate a legislative can say yes or can say no decision >> from one that once a decision to write the code has been made. Then if if if a developer makes an application under that code that has been written then it becomes an administrative process and they have a right to a certain process. Now, I think what you're asking for is to I'll just say go go to the drawing board. I won't say back to the drawing board. Let's say go to the drawing board. Yep. >> Right. So, we have to deal with an application in a timely manner. The application's been made. If the answer is no, then what you're asking for as to going to the drawing board is certainly a possibility, >> right? But if it if an application is made that adheres to the ordinance that the council has already adopted, then it's a does it adhere? The answer is yes. If it doesn't adhere, the answer is no. Now, the reason is not one of those administrative processes. That is a process where the council can say yes, we will reszone it to R2A and yes, we will accept the development agreement, including the uh uh dedication of open space to the city. that's the next agenda item or the answer is no, we're not going to resz on this. It stays as R2 and then as R2 that that application uh for RQA would die and then there's all kinds of drawing board exercises that we could take up. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Yep. I think it does. So, it's a little bit of wait and see and then see if we go back. >> Part of it is we wait and see what the council decides on this reszone on and development agreement. If that falls through, there's there's back to the there's a back to the drawing board option. Yes. >> Gotcha. We explain the first second reading, too. >> Yeah. So, let's go through that. We typically as a council do things in two meetings, at least two meetings. So, the council always has the option to adopt a proposal on their first opportunity to hear it. That's not usually the case. I'm not going to speak for the council. The council is going to do whatever the council wants to do. Tonight, this is on our agenda for f first reading. Sorry. Which typically means that we get the the council gets the information, the council hears what you uh have to say on a public hearing. And by the way, you owe the council a thanks. I'm not sure you're in the mood to thank the council, but but this opportunity was not required >> to have you come and address the council. >> So the the the state code requires the planning commission to hold the public hearing, does not require the council to hold a public hearing. The council we have worked together and say, "Look, if there's an issue that people want us to listen to, we will hear it. Doesn't mean we'll always agree with it. It doesn't mean we'll always disagree with it, but it means we will hear it." So, um, I'm going to suggest you offer this counsel, not all at the same time, but, you know, at least in your own mind, you know, thanks for listening to us. Yeah. And and many of you have said that, and I appreciate that. >> I I love that and I appreciate that. >> And so, this is on the agenda for a a first reading. The council could wave that and move to adopt or reject the application. first reading is typically, okay, now we we understand there might be some follow-up things that the council would ask of staff. Um, your opportunity to continue to uh uh uh address your your elected representatives would go on until a decision is made, which might be at a second reading. So, tonight we're looking at a first reading. The council may decide to make a decision one way or another. I won't guess what the council's going to do, but tonight is mostly for the council's benefit to get information and so thank you for sharing that with us. >> Thank you. >> Yep. >> Hello, I'm Josh. I live at 1225. Um, we do house meaning we're both 30 years of age. And to I guess my question is is if we do smaller stuff like that, they want to make it more affordable, but as a builder as well, I can build and we barely like we're barely like we built it and we can still afford it, but like it took everything we got. I did a lot of training. a lot of work and gas is the developer can ask from what I've heard they're ask 73,000 they're going to build it for 73 development range law and they ask 100,000 plus your 22,000 that impact these that's 122,000 and how I guess what is the age that you're looking at these kids to buy this house I mean my wife well over our 20s to get old to be able to afford our first house um that that's why I'm wondering is do you really think kids in their 20s are going to be able to afford these models with $122,000 if that's the price that they're getting right cuz if you're getting $400,000 loan you're not build a day house could be very nice it's but that is my concern to books. Thank you. I am not on this side of town. You're on the west side of the tracks or east side of the tracks. Um, but I'm a grandfather of just came up. I've got the spin probably to run this nine lens if you have that. Uh I don't know if you guys is the laser pointer. Our laser pointer is not nearly as impressive as the green. >> That one was bright. Yeah. >> Show you where he's at. I think that's Can we Can we buy that laser pointer from you? So 465 West 3800 South. That's where Josh lives right there. That's where I've been spending some time raking rocks, cleaning out all kinds of stuff, building with Josh. It's been a fun process. I've got a different perspective as a grandfather looking at these lots. Uh and looking at it now where I live on a halfacre over on the east side of the tracks, it's a little different being over here on a third acres. we've always heard uh since I've been in Nibi now 25 years probably the biggest meetings that we've ever had in Nibbli are for this very reason because we're impacting uh people that have built and now we're crowding them in. So take that as that's interesting that a lot of people are here because this is impacting their property. Now, if you look at Josh's rock right there, if you look at how many homes would be sat in his acre, they're 40. That's impossible. That's incredible. And I think it's really sad. I feel sad for these people that that's getting pushed on them. And hopefully the council will shut that down and go back to the uh scheme uh the original setting. 35 homes is not bad. You look at the existing lots around there. I think one of your slides we live by said that the council or the uh the um the other the other body that looked at it >> the planning commission the planning commission said that that was in agreement with the master plan. How could that be? I think that's crazy to think about. If you look at it just visually, there's no way that the same both in Stonebridge to the side where Josh is at to the side over here. There's no way that the same. It's not a big and it doesn't meet our master plan. We always work all the time. The last 25 years it's in the we go to it, we see it, we participate and yet this is getting pushed and now this is due process. Hopefully it'll get shut down and then you go back to the drawing board. Even the third acre right in that situation right now would look fine. There's a grand open that sits there. The Northwest took a park away at least open space. This a dra was a very little area that they could go play in the kids. The kids don't have any of the playgrounds over on the first property. I'll buy a but it's going to go with the 48. That's an unusual bonus. Thank you. Hello It's Quinn Jones at 12:30 West 3050 South. Um, if I could have some clarification, I think it's probably Levi who my question is directed at. Uh, the planning and zoning meeting a couple of weeks ago, there was a distinction maybe when it comes to a developer donating to the city whether the city is inclined to accept it or disin. Could you remind me of the stance of the city in this part? >> Yeah. So that that that is the next item on the agenda. I will cover that in more detail because it it's in relation to the development agreement. But for the parks and and recreation master man plan, it was it was disincclination. I'll get into more detail about that. I believe it is relevant because if I'm not mistaken at that planning and zoning meeting it was made contingent that the open space subdivision be approved for the reszone to be approved. Is that correct or what was the contingency made at that zoning meeting? >> Was that was that correct? I >> and I apologize I should have put that in into the presentation as well. That was that was the um the motion of planning commission that the reszone is contingent upon an open space subdivision approval which they did approve. So >> correct. >> Yeah. >> So it might be that the council will again next item on the agenda consider the dedication of the open space to be given to the citizens of NIL and that requires a council decision. So that's why the council is working on a development agreement on the next agenda. Thank you. I just like to say as is evident um citizens of Nimly are disincined as apparently is the city to accept that. So I think the evidence is there to decline this reasonably. But I appreciate your time. Thank you. Okay. Anyone else? I have a comment from Mr. Rogers. I spoke with him on the phone. He asked this be entered into the public record. Mr. Rogers lives at 1237 West 3440 South. We had a nice discussion. He's uh his summary was he would like to see larger lots. >> He would like to see what >> larger lots. So we'll include that in the public and obviously um Thanks for your time. We spent a lot of time on this. Obviously, people are really passionate about me this subdivision and the size of the lots. They're ridiculously small. I own a piece of property that has more space than what you're offering with these 5,000 square foot lots. Um, I have a an,00 house lot. That's a Okay, I have a little backyard and I got a little here. I'm jammed up next to my neighbors, which is kind of it. But this is ridiculous. This is I don't know how much Scott's fun and something must been missed along the line that all of these people in this area have objected. um buildings and the possibilities rather than going to funding zoning meeting if somebody missed that. I mean to me that seems the starting point funding and zoning had this proposal in front of them the application and somehow all of these people didn't know that that existed. So Sandre, I think we had an energetic planning and zoning meeting as well and that's what clued me into we should put this public hearing on the city council as well. Glad >> that it's really important um because some things just sink under um the carpet and before you know it you've got subdivision in your neighborhood. Um we were very fortunate that um on our road in our neighborhood someone was going to do that and we didn't know it until the finding um poster went on the lot and when that happened we came right to people we came right to the city and they helped us resolve that issue. So, I'm I'm I'm positive that council has good intentions here. All of you out there, this is a horrible plan. We totally agree. It doesn't impact us directly at all, but indirectly it does. Utilities, traffic, emergency systems, um you know, everything that everybody has mentioned is right on the table here and I hope that you all take that appreciate. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Sean. Anyone else? Don't be shy. >> Mr. Mayor, can I ask a quick question regarding zoning? >> Uh, is it anformational question or a policy question? >> Both. >> Okay, come up and ask. Although I should let whoever was in front of you go first. >> I just applaud that again. Drive. I guess my question is the plan is the only commission. They're required to notify people within that 300 radius within 10 or 10 days of war by notification was eight days and so I know the intent because the holiday and I like that was a cler cler but I was only notified 8 days instead of 10 days before but I think that was a lot of people weren't notified in time for that I don't know if it's just feedback or if there's anything to do with that but constructive criticism I guess I could say >> so maybe the distinction they they were mailed out so one Yeah. So, we we typically we will mail them out at least 10 days in advance. That doesn't necessarily mean that people will receive them in the mail uh 10 days ahead of 10 days ahead of them. That's that's the state requirement. >> Mr. Go ahead. Yeah. just so the letter Wednesday July 2nd Wednesday it was cancelled and postmarked in Salt Lake City on Monday the 7th which is where it was less than the 10 days 8 days that's how I'm familiar with my information I don't know what the same code is but and it's probably due to >> I'm sorry yeah I mean we send it from here so if it's postmarked in Salt Lake City It may have taken two days to get there. We did send notices out 10 days ahead of the meeting. >> I'm sure that's what the 4th of July. So I don't know if that's racism. I didn't push it to the land only being but I think more once I think it's record especially if it's only and I want vacation pretty weather every day. So anyway thanks M. >> My name is Emma Thompson. LA 3120 south 1250 west right there along 1200 west. I'd like to bring up just a small point that I heard brought up yet. U we've all talked about the business of the area. But if you sit there on 12 west around 5:30 in the morning 6:00 you have people going 35 miles an hour to JBS to work. And if you didn't think this area was like busy during the day you have those people that don't live in this area. are coming and going for JBS all as of the day. And with these homes in with that, it's a lot a lot of congestion, a lot of people coming and going from this area and using these roads to get to and from places when they don't live here. And even though the steam limb is supposed to, they are going a lot faster than I can guarantee it because I can hear through my bedroom window when you have screen open in the summer. Um, but I don't children in a small town where small town community feel. So my excited live in a smaller area that had that kind of feel. So I'm kind of disappointed to see this taking over town. So I would just like to let you know that I object this one. So I' like to thank you guys for your time. Thank you for listening to us and our concern. I appreciate you guys doing that. Thank you. >> Thank you. Oh, last one's a plat pass. Tom Bernard been a while from Burnard. I live at 2364 South 770 West and I used to participate in the fun that you are all having tonight. Now I'm sitting on this side. Um I don't this is probably more of a rhetorical question but what I would wonder Josh are you a developer right and what I'm curious would be is like citizens have actually taken the time to sit down with Josh having sat on city council before my experience is that although this was run through planning and zoning I don't know if citizen group we did this on the 2200 south development that's is didn't that you were doing. Did you get >> Oh, yeah. >> Another item on the agenda. City council and citizen

at the time a chance to sit down with Josh really define just encourage the citizens to really take a good as well as like I get the tenth of acre thing the concern there. one thing like I don't know how different city it looks a little bit different than like a a town home and and things like that but I mean my daughter my son paid $325,000 three years ago for town and it's fill in the north end and uh so if you think that and that's not affordable housing I get the bold discussion and everything else but um home prices are only going up so there's things that we can do to help you know make that and you know allow residents whether it be you know something outside of just a town something that they other walls and home things like that they can get down and price point to not going to get down to 400,000 you know anytime well maybe those those homes will just encourage the developer and facilitate really make a good trade in terms of this particular area thank you Tom good to see you Roxy. >> My name is Roxy Christensen. I'm at 2480 South 660 West and my comments are a little different than what we've um been hearing tonight. um we are the ones who uh work on the farm. And so my comments are just to all of you that have concerned um and have expressed um interest in like a place for your kids to be and um safety and those sorts of things. reason why I can't help with the road at all. Um, what we can promise is what we do at Morgan Farm is everything is uh either backed in research before we do it or we work very closely with Utah State University Extension in everything that we do so that um we're bringing the very best that we can to the community and it's not just our idea and what we think may be a good idea. We run those things through um people who've been there, done that, and they do it every single day. And so um I guess our commitment to you would be that we do our very best if this were to pass. Um I don't have any comments as far as like anything to to do with um for or against just that we would work our very best to provide a space for your family and your children. Um, and if you have any questions, come to Morgan Farm and see what we've been doing there to kind of bring rural to the community and bring programming. We have ecoin therapy that happen. We have kids who raise 4 animals and our biggest butch is just mas bringing their kids into the room to see the animals. So each animal has about 10 different names um depending on who's coming through and we would want to make sure to incorporate all the things that we've heard tonight like as your concerns we would want to incorporate those into a bigger plan um to help make where you live be what you're important. Thank you, Roxy, and and to you and Mike for the countless hours you volunteered to run and operate the Morgan farm. You guys have taken something and make it made it made made me proud to live in. Thank you for that. Okay. Thank you all for speaking. I'll give you one more chance if you'd like to come to the podium. I'll count it down three giants. Sorry. My name is Nate Perry. I live at 3145 South 1250 West. And like a lot of my neighbors, I moved up here from Salt Lake Valley area to get the more rural deal. But um raising my four kids. I have four boys tightly beard. I get emotional kind of like Jerry Mver. Um especially when I see um two to four potential new neighbors behind my house. Um I have a lot of safety concerns with the traffic that we're currently seeing. My wife got rear ended a month or two ago. Somebody was speeding and texting and driving. Um, I have four kids that are three of them are going to be going to Heritage Elementary that is already full. Um, I feel like we have a lot of different resources potentially available with all the other development that's going across city hall and Bridge Elementary for some of these um closer houses to go into. Um, and I just wanted to go on record showing that I also oppose um, this current um, submission for the housings to go and I am all about growth. I understand that there's a lot of growth and excitement as living in Salt Lake area for 10 years. We saw extreme growth. Um so I just appreciate your time and wonderful also posting. Thank you 3 2 one. Thank you all for commenting. Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with us uh in this in this setting. Um as you can tell council is very interested in what you have to say. Uh with that, let's move on to the next agenda item. This is discussion and consideration of the reszone of this property. And that's it because the development will actually be on the next one. So, I'm going to turn that to the council. I I think that there are a number of questions that were asked that were uh maybe better answered in this setting. And I'm not saying I got them all, but I might put a few members of staff on case on on what do I want to say on the on the >> on the spot. >> On the spot. Yeah, that's it. Uh what's some of these? Number one, uh maybe a question for you, Tom, our engineer. Um, we haven't gotten to a final plat at all, but there were concerns expressed about groundwater and surface water. >> Yes. >> So, what does the city do about groundwater and surface water as we process an application? So there are some standards that every subdivision has to meet and that's managing the additional storm water that's that comes with the impervious areas of roofs, sidewalks, roads, um patios and driveways and things. That's in general. It's uh it's based on 100ear storm and depending on what sort of management VMP you use, it could be a 24-hour storm or a 48 hour storm. The difference between those two storms is is about a half an inch. A 24-hour storm, you design, you model the the lot or the parcel of the whole development at the original historic state. So in this case, it' be a patch and then you remodel it based on the roads and all the homes that are going to go in there. And then you manage the additional runoff through this pond. This pond can retain the water or it can release it at a controlled rate which is designed to mimic the historic blows that would come off during the storm before the development. Does that make sense? >> Yep. >> Okay. So, that's every subdivision. In this case, this subdivision, we were very aware of flooding surface and groundwater that is in this area. We worked with the the designer and the developer to try to mitigate this. There's issues at highway estates and in response to those issues, we have a master plan storm water system that's designed that's going to be designed and installed to mitigate all this flooding and and take it all the way to Slooh back behind Maloof. Um they've been very very cooperative in in all the design and and we will help with this. Well, actually this is going to be funded by city. It's been in the master plans before this development came in. But with this development, there's an opportunity for the city to mitigate some of the extra cost and work with the developer and get so they'll be putting a portion of it in with their development. The city will continue some of that. >> Okay. Thanks. there there's additionally with the groundwater issues in the and I can't remember what subdivision is Maple Valley >> or to the west. >> We're aware of some groundwater issues with some basement that are continually pumping water out of the ground and clearing into the the gutter. This spring we found a land drain that at the Slooh and these land drains predate most people in this room. Maybe not Mr. Burman, but they come in in the late 40s. Just kidding. Totally kidding. They were they were installed in the 1930s, 1940s. Seems like a father said Mr. Burman. I'm just kidding. But they were installed in the 1940s. They're mapped. We know about where they and there there's some in this area through that subdivision that's west of this this side as well. We found one that was plugged and public works came in and and unplugged it and I checked with some of the neighbors in the area, Nathan, and he said there was an immediate result by relieving that pressure in there. He said it was he knew well he he identified that it came down. It was really timely that we did it. So we did notice this this groundwater came down quite a bit. We still have a little bit of work to do. There's another blockage that we're trying to locate and and get cleared up as well. That'll be in the future. Along with this, we're very aware of they we worked with the designer and the the developer to install a ground drain along the west perimeter. So, this ground drain will go down 6 ft or so and it'll be perforated. So, it'll be and it'll act as an additional ground drain land drain that'll convey it to this new storm water pipe planning to take to the sloop. So, we're we're we feel that this is going to mitigate most if all of the problems that we're seeing with regard to service and and gra to that. I've had some residents worried that they're going to bring up so much spilled dirt that their backyard in their house will be now the low point. So, with this grounding ground help that or how do we ensure then that they're not going to be in a new spot? So, this is going to be here heard in the development agreement coming up that the city has offered 6,500 cubic yards of dirt that's been sitting in a field forever. The developer has agreed to take that dirt and fill in this area. We've contacted at least two two uh property owners, Mr. Lock, the neighbor to the north, and Derek. I can't remember Derrick's last night. I I I met with them on site and I've asked Josh to get with them to get a finite plan on how to fill these in so they don't end up this little. Thank you. >> Okay. So staff or council instead of me going through questions that I thought we could order on policy. So this is the right time to do it. Um, if you made note of questions that we could respond with answers to, I'm gonna let you do it and maybe we'll see if we get through the list. >> Nor one of mine that they talked about was uh setbacks and distance and fire prom

distance and firewalls. >> Can I answer that? Yes, the the building codes are international residential. If you're closer than 5T from a property line, a quiet property, it's required to have the fire clos and then as you get closer and closer and closer, it starts limiting the amount of openings that you can have or windows. And as you even get closer, you can't have any. So you see a townhouse, those have firewalls in between each of them. You can't see it. It's all embedded. It's all part of the structure. If you look at it, you can see that firewall continues up into the roof as well. You can see in in the case of most most development here, they do a parapit wall that's horizontal that that protects 4T on each side of this firewall, 5 footed on each side of this firewall. So, you can see a different sort of firet treated plywood that goes on top of these walls. So the fire separation distance of 5 ft is proposed here would not require a fire separation wall. >> So let me be clear. It's 5 ft on each side of the property line for side setback. So we're actually talking about 10. >> It's 10 foot separation built. The separation is measured to the property. And then I'm I'm trying to I heard a couple of mentions of being within 5 ft of an existing uh property line with the setback, but the rear setbacks which seem to be what would affect existing lots are not 5T side of the lots. >> I'll ask Levi a question. He's planner or dongle. >> Can I see that? >> And >> yeah. Yeah, maybe I'll go to it. Um, yeah, if it's a rear yard, it's 15 foot setback. There are a few uh sideyards that face some of the rear yards that that would be five feet, but then so I'm if you can kind of follow my >> Yeah. Which >> my cursor there. Um there's a five that would be a sideyard that you know there's there's some sideyards here that would be 5T but yeah the majority would be that 15t uh rear yard setback which is the would be the minimum imposed here. So it's hideway I heard it's crossing subdivision lot seven. >> Okay thank you. I'm just trying to understand where this is. And then it's also in >> it's lot two of >> Heritage Crossing, >> right? Okay. >> Yeah. So, I see three four. I guess there's one more in Highway Estate. Um >> I think that might have a little bit more of a setback. I think there's an easement there for drainage if I remember right, Tom. There might be 10 ft there. >> 70 of the proposed, >> right? Looks like it's more like 10 feet there, but >> that helps me ask. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Or other questions. >> Okay. One thing I heard several times was not about ground water, but drinking water and utilities, things like that. So maybe um Justin or Tom could give us a little just let education about what does our drinking water utility water look like in our city? Are we at risk of if we continue to put this type of density in our city like running drinking water or what's your opinion of it? >> So we're staff's on top of it. You'll hear later a new well. This has been in planning for a couple years. It's been in our master plan. This particular development is surrounded by 12-in water lines on two sides. And this will connect and loop it. They won't have an immediate impact to any any of the other units or residences in this area. There shouldn't be any any pressure drops. anything that's unreasonable that's not already there probably won't even see it on these 12 or on these 70 units we um I'll talk can I talk a little bit about the comparison of different lot sizes with >> so we we took about 165 random samples of different lot sizes this is based on some input that we received at the planning commission meeting and we we found that just real time average use in thousands of gallons. We already have a couple of subdivisions that are about this lot size. So, we had pretty good sample size. So, um these this size lot size uses about 27 g 27,000 gallons per month during the summer. And as we know during the summers when our our kicks in right after turns their spring on an average lot of.3 acres or quarter acre lot uses 61% more water during this period of time and an average lot size of a half an acre is two two almost two and a half times more water than what these this size lot uses. And this is real data based on water meter readings and things. So >> yeah, >> I don't know if I answered all of your questions. >> Even if there were two of these lots together, they'd still be using less water to water lawn than half ac. >> Yeah, about two and a half of these. >> Can I can I add one thing as well? Just uh just to point out that we we do require with any development uh the dedication of water rights or shares to the city. Um and that and that's calculated. It's it's you know an engineering calculation that that sometimes developers have enough water water share, sometimes they don't. Sometimes they have to hunt after them. But it's not based on what they have. it's based on what's required for the you know calculated for that development. So they they do provide that to um add to the the supply of of water rights and shares that the city city has on hand. Um, can you remind me where the speed limit changes from the roundabout to the next it changes or is it 25 from the roundabout style or is it get to 35 right there? That is >> so coming into county roads are both I believe 45 and then as you come into the curve we it's posted at 40. B, there's advisory speed limits in the roundabout south at 15 miles an hour and then traveling north it's posted at 25 miles hour. Even so, even though it's posted 25, the measured speed 85th percentile speed is right around 34 to 37 miles an hour. >> So from the roundabout going about until you get to the county which is what half mile. >> It's not far. It's like two and a half blocks. >> Two and a half blocks. It's 40 from the roundabout to the county. That's correct. >> And that was based on 50%. We we we did a traffic study on >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's there's no doubt, if you don't mind me jumping in, I mean, we've talked about this a number of times, 12 West will connect Hyram to the Logan Caster. >> Mhm. >> We know absolutely that a large number of people that don't live in Nimble will use that road to get through Nimble. And it's not on the agenda to talk about whether we made the right decision or the wrong decision tonight, but the traffic calming on 12 West was part of the I mean the reason that's there is because real a realization that there's going to be a bunch of people driving up. Um, I have had conversations with law enforcement about the difference in speeds on a long straight road south of Nibi getting to Hyum versus the speeds on 12 West. In fact, you have traffic data study as you just said 35 85 percentile is 35 miles hour >> roughly between 30, >> right? And eventually uh our plans are people might as well hear it. uh because that's an arterial road and and works into the cash metropolitan planning organization master road plan. Uh we are we are anticipating a 35 mph speed limit on 12 west >> going north of the roundabout. That's correct. The phase 5 is currently under contract with state comparison. They're beginning construction next week or the following and after that's completed it will be replaced on signs with 35 miles an hour and that matches the 85th percentile. We we've noticed that a 25 mph sign doesn't change that fast people are are driving but what we have noticed is the road configuration is self-re. It'll be interesting to see if the design speeds for that road, which was 35 miles an hour, is now matching traffic speed if that continues to be the case when the when the signs were changed in 35. The indication is that traffic speeds would stay at 35. Well, before it opened, I took the liberty that I have as a city engineer and tried to drive and I tried to drive as fast as I felt comfortable. I tried to f drive as fast as I felt uncomfortable and the fastest I could really get was 40 mph and I was uncomfortable. The most comfortable speed is about 34 me personally. Okay. There might be someone on a bullet bike that can go faster on a Corvette that will thank you. You're hitting a bunch on my list. So yeah, you like to keep going. That'd be great. >> Um so I some of the people who got up here today said they have the kids and the four kids. advocated for the school system. I just wanted to clarify um that and maybe just like information we can just discuss um as a city we don't take into factor the school size and sort of the classroom sizes right so just to clarify that CF school district or Logan school district are separate governing body then our local municipality so um I know that was a concern that came up several times um I just want to point out that personally I don't know that that's something that we consider here as Logan era student because Afghan school district and most schools are separate governing bodies. They have their own calculations about when schools are built. Maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong. Is that correct? >> What we do though is we make certain >> I'm having trouble hearing. We were very interested in what you had to say and I know that you would like to hear what we have to say. What we do though as the city is we stay in close contact with school districts. We let them know what's happening. They will make their own decisions because they are their own governing body, but we try to keep them as informed as possible and really have a a good relationship with schools that are in our community. We mentioned the crossing. We work closely to make certain that there are excellent crossing guards abandoning. We make certain we're meeting with the principles that they're talking about safe routes to school that the city's aware of those so that we are taking care of those as far as making certain that the kids can get to school in the winter time and that they are as safe as we can contribute to make them safe. >> Yeah. Um just one last comment I heard multiple times was the safety of the crosswalk. Um just to clarify, we had two crossing guards at the roundabout. Is that correct? and um in talking with them maybe through the spring and finishing the school year, what was their thoughts about um how traffic's moving and just the safety of the kids on that round about speaking? >> Yes, that's a great point. She moving out there, it kind of bubbled up near the end of the school year. So, I went out there, I stood there, I watched a few times, I spoke with the crossing guards. There's a little little bit of uh disagreement on what the best thing to do there is. So, we supposed to set up a meeting and to be honest, that meeting really hasn't happened. I need to get after that. The principles kind of left town for a minute when school got shut down. >> Parish. >> Yeah. So, we requested a meeting with the parish principal with our crossing guards, with our streets department, and with Cash Sheriff's Office to kind of talk about and what changes needed needed to be made at that. And that meeting just hasn't happened. We really need to get on that. It just kind of slipped. That's the that was definitely the hope and we're running for that time. So, we better get on. So, I had a comment from our president, not related to this subdivision, but about that safety issue at 12 West and you and I talked about different types of crosswalks, whether cars have to wait until the road is completely cleared versus half cleared. So, there's some education on on terms of drivers, whether that means write citations or try to do some signage stuff or >> or whatever, but that's on our agenda. >> Yeah. Then I just go to talk about stuff. That meeting is scheduled so we will hopefully get on recent. What else? Okay. >> There were a lot of people that brought up traffic concerns. Is there any traffic studies associated with this? Um there was a suggestion, Mrs. Meyer, that gross acreage would be the right number to use instead of net developable acreage. In fact, net developable acreage and how many lots are allowed on what's left after you subtract the roads is actually a more conservative approach and less density than to work off of gross acreage. So gross means everything and you get I don't care let's take three let's take two just for R2 um gross acreage you see take all the acreage and um however many acres that is multiply by two so you get two lots per gross acre but in fact what our code does is more conservative of an approach. It says, "No, you have to build roads, so we're going to not give you credit for building roads." And that is number of lots per net developable acreage, and it's about 80% uh less acreage that you can develop than the gross acreage. So, I I think we're on the I may have heard it wrong. I think we're on the right track with a more conservative approach of net developable acreage. >> Sure. per lot or to determine in case anything grows. Am I right on that? >> Yeah. Yeah, that that's correct. Um but would would allow less lots and there were a lot of comments on the lot sizes that that are currently allowed in the R2A subdivision. So maybe while we're on the topic, I if I could address that a little bit. Uh so the city has for several years probably about 10 years had h has had uh an ordinance on the books uh it's changed names a couple of times used to be called conservation subdivi conservation subdivision then rural preservation it's called open space subdivision which allows for significantly smaller lot sizes I if with the dedication of open space and those lots sizes and the number of lots that are allowed. It's commensurate with the the amount of open space that's dedicated. This is the first proposed uh subdivision under under additional standards within an R2A subdivision. But uh there is a contrast between these lot sizes and the lot sizes that are currently allowed. a 12,000 foot lot, for example, in a 5,000 foot lot that there is that same contrast in other in an R2A zone and an R1 and R1A zone. Um there's, for example, there's 7,800 square foot lots for an R2 zone, which under the base base zoning requires a half an acre, which is, you know, about 22,000 square ft. So, it's about a third of of the the minimum watt size. So this is this is something new and different in the case of um this zone. Uh but but it's it there have been a number of subdivisions Mount Vista Nibi Farms that developed under those set of ru rules with an R2 R2 zoning not the R2A. So I just wanted to address that a little bit because there was a lot of expression and concern of well these this this is a completely different character different uh these are different lot sizes and what what is around them that the there's not an economic incentive to dedicate the open space without allowing those additional lot size and the city has another ordinance on the books a cluster subdivision. It's actually only been used once in in the Stonebridge subdivision, which hasn't developed out completely. The first two phases have, but uh that the other subdivision we found has has been more successful at at preserving some of these open spaces and worked with that over time. >> Yeah, thanks, Levi. I'm going to pontificate for a minute. the whole idea of a conservation subdivision or an open space subdivision and you guys have been involved in not only the planning uh general planning so on and so forth but also the writing of the ordinance you adopted the ordinance that that makes this possible. It's the idea that making something to preserve its heritage and an open space heritage is to cluster lots into a smaller space and keep open space around that. And that's the whole basis of the of the orchest. No, in fact, there's only certain things that can be called open space in order to justify the and not justify, it's motivate the clustering of the lots to keep the open space around those those smaller lots. Now, it's very difficult. I know I've been through and some of you have as well been through this process a number of times. It's very hard to look at that plat and understand the potential of the open space and the impact in a very positive way of the open space. It's easy to see the size of the lots after the dedication of the open space. And um I when I asked questions about the size of the lots actually I didn't ask question before we started it was what is the density of the proposal of the project if we include the open space and I asked that because I think it's important to include the open space and the whole idea of the open space is to be a benefit to the community. Roxy talked about the benefit of Morgan farm on 8th west to the community for kids that are raising 4 animals people that get to go look at goats and chickens and stuff. So I mean that's what we're talking about as a benefit to it's not a benefit to anyone on city council any more than than someone who's a citizen of so it is it's hard to see the benefit from a plat of that open space. Um, with that, Josh, you're you're the proponent. I'm gonna put you on the spot if you'll let me. Can I ask you a question about house sizes? Maybe you want to come up to the So, while you're coming up, my first question, and you don't have to answer any of these, if you have information for us, that'd be great. uh will your company be building these houses or will you be uh will you be contract will will owners of the land be able to select their own contract? >> Yeah, still to be determined. We I mean I think some of us the owners would like to build some homes but >> so in that case just as a hypothetical um on a 5,000 square foot lot what size of house would you put on that? I live on,00 square foot house. So I can envision Sandre you you talk I would love to ask you what your landscape area is of your whatever 2 acres is your zoning. I don't know what your actual is but that's another question. But on a 5,000 square foot lot what size house is appropriate to go on that? I'm not an expert in that, but I would say this discussion 12250 to 2500 way bigger than where I live, 11. Okay. So, of that 5,000 square foot, there's about 25 to 30% devoted to the house and the rest of it is is the the yard space. Okay, that helps me understand. Go ahead. My question like everybody else are grateful to see so many people out here is important, you know, cuz we try to do as much due diligence as we can. Make sure you're doing what we're supposed to do. We're good stewards. Uh we land. So part of that just a couple of things. one I did the I tried to run the numbers based on the spreadsheet and given things up 80% which is standard ne >> and I don't have that right in front of you I'd have to do I'd have to look for that was that was all considered at the planning commission with the preliminary plat all of all of the Yeah. >> Yeah. And it and and to be clear, the 80% that's that's that's that's not really what >> that's a rule of thumb. >> That's a rule of thumb to kind of figure out about what could fit there. But in this case, it's more customized and it's provided. I mean, I I can pull it up if you give me a minute. it. I might even be able Let's see here to zoom in on this. If you give me a minute, I'll I'll look it up. >> It may be a good time for the council to think about what type of motion you're going to offer. >> If in fact, >> stop right there. No, I'll do >> I don't want to I don't want to abandon Garrett's point in the motion about two more things, you know, in in our balance, you know, affordable balance. Just we have small lots doesn't mean they're affordable. Uh I drove around remember it the smaller most of those smaller lots are 55 plus communities size lots and most of them actually look pretty nice and in trying to do this open space it's important people to understand that there's a lot of people who want to do 4 and farm is pretty much almost incapacity from what I understand which is one of the reasons we're considering this piece of property and trying to expand that so we can have more opportunity for citizens of Newly and their children to do 4 to want to because most of us unless you have at least half an acre, you're not putting farm animal on there. Um, you also have to property rights and others. Um, but one of the concerns that I have, I know it was on the next agenda item, but as was the inspection of those barns that are part of this open space that we were wanting to preserve and the cost and object to get them up to code. That is not an expense I think that we should pay for and I don't know if the developer would be willing to pay that expense to bring those up to code to make them usable and that they would pass inspection. I know it's a separate issue, but for me it's kind of tied to this one because I don't see a purpose in the next item if they're not willing to do that to to you know for me on this one. something. I know they're tied together, >> even though they're separate issues, but that's something I would like to have addressed and maybe Josh can answer something on that. Um, because those are my concerns. >> Thank you. Good. Nor, do you have a motion for us? >> Yeah, I make a motion to approve ordinance 2526 for first reading. >> And a motion from Norman and a second from K to approve for first reading. Let's talk about it. >> Yeah. And again, I like to man, thank everybody that coming out in your public uh comment. It just shows how much everybody loves this community. Um I know for for me, I'd like to now the next reading to see if we can't just top side. I'm uncomfortable with the side logics to the existing thing being so close. I like to see set side setbacks to the existing subdivision. So I would like to see those at least 15 ft the same as the backyard to see how many that would and then maybe just make sure I know that quite a bit maybe if we get varants of lot sizes make make some of those a little bit bigger and and I I seen that we did look at the buildings a little bit but maybe we can just like like said make sure they are very I know for myself I sent pictures to them. We just got back from Iowa um and they were having their community um fair and they have a a building an out building similar to this and they have for younger kids from 2 to four and just the energy of people that loving animals what they have like I said the Morgan farm uh with the gardens that they're building is is is at capacity and with the waiting list. So, anytime that we have a open space or subdivision, you try to identify what's the value and and if if the risk to reward is worth it. Um, we talk about rural um if you were in Strrada and this was next door, they would probably feel this is rural, but it's but it's uh I mean it's all in comparison to where you live in your view. But uh to to build those those those barns and buildings in land, you're talking over a million dollars or more. So what's the risk award? And the Morgan's limited on having facilities when the weather's cold in winter where these cities have some advance, too. So to me, those are the the things is is is make sure the value in those those buildings worth it. Obviously, there's a need. Not everybody's into soccer. My dad when we go to film reunions, he's so proud of those ones that are state champions, state champions. And my kids are into music. So for them to benefit this, there's no music in here, so they probably see it. But but growing up on a farm and seeing those kids that that's their world is is clear. And again, if you haven't had time, it's a push of war. You want to see like the animals have to have a benefit of helping the community what they have to be able to. So, uh, if if the adoption on reading passes, we'll make some lists of things to to get clear. So let's review density counts and we can go through those in detail in session or with uh with get out of session. You always get details >> um side setbacks to existing lots. >> Yeah, I think we just right. Um because that helped me identify them. I think that our our uh so this council adopted the code that enables this this proposal. Now that doesn't mean we've lost our negotiating position because we still have a legislative authority to say yes or no to the uh to the to the uh to the reszone. So we might use that legislative authority to say no to the reszone to say well what if on this even though it's entitled by code we've already adopted what if we've been negotiating on those lots uh with side yard setbacks to just lots data. Okay. So that's that's another item on the list and >> other things to to talk about >> and that and that might sorry and that might be that I think that requires the developers cooperation. I I mean I don't think I don't think you're asking us to sketch something up necessarily. I mean the developer is entitled to the code that we adopt that way but we still have some negotiating leverage on some >> right >> so hint hint nudge nudge you know what I mean Josh there might be some room for us >> okay appreciate again next meeting we could have something showing the in house water use the various I anticipated and also differentiating that'd be very helpful. >> Yeah. So Tom gave some of that data. What's the verifying point just for my >> Yeah. >> I was trying to think about writing down. Did I get it? >> No. I Yeah. >> Yeah. What is it about 60% of culinary water is used for irrigation in a residential setting? Just numbers. >> Well, let me look at you for numbers. >> Good point. >> Yes, please. >> I wonder Christensen's about um I mean you you got up and you mentioned that everything you do is is research back which is great. So you wouldn't obviously have a comprehensive list of all the things you would want to do on a on a particle like this, but maybe if you could just give us some ideas of the different kinds of programming that potentially going in here. You mentioned ecoin therapy and I at one point we talked about maybe an effective community garden, walking trails for people to walk through this or path this. So maybe we could just um if you might have a minute to give us a list of some things that you perceive could be options to public in this space. Thank you. >> Okay, great. And then for me I know it's the next agenda item but I wouldn't have come up with an answer on developers costs a making fast code. I I have the feeling I'm not guessing what the council is going to do. I have the feeling that the reszone motion that you adopt and the proposal is for first reading the development agreement would likely follow the same course. I'm not nudging you in any direction on this one. >> Well, I don't think I don't think you could even approve the development agreement without the reason um without Yeah. without breaking your own code. >> Anything else? >> Is there a a trail in the the back the north side of this? >> You can point to it. It's a 25 foot trail. >> Okay. >> Right here. >> Yeah. >> And is that connected on either side or is that reference to this trail? >> Yeah. So, master plan and I'll get into it a little more on the next agenda item, but um yeah. Should I are you okay with that or do you want me to? Yeah. Okay. Other things to get ready for a second reading if the first reading asks an objection to voting on the motion to adopt for first reading. Well, maybe if we can include I know we've talked about the storm water, maybe where the flow is on that just maybe do an aerial like hey this is we we talked about putting in the pipes where you need to catch it. It's going to go to this drain where it's going to go just like a bigger screenshot if we can put that on the slide. Is that is that appropriate um preliminary or is that come at a final adoption? Tom, I'll let Chief >> I want to work in the logical order. >> No, but just just go for start here, here, and here. It doesn't matter detail, but >> Okay, we have to buy that. Okay. Okay. If nobody says anything else, I'm going to call for a vote on first reading. Nobody said anything else. Those in favor of adopting for first reading, bring back for second reading. Uh continue dialogue with resident citizens. These are your elected representatives as am I. Welcome that. Uh and we've got a list of things for staff to work on before you come to second reading. >> Those in favor adoption for first reading, please say I. >> I. Are there any oppos? >> Motion pass. Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to do that. I have three in favor and one oppose. Meaning motion passes three. Um, I think we should try to tackle the next agenda item before we stretch our legs for a minute. So, with that, let's move on to discussion and consideration of ordinance 2527. This would be a potential development agreement on the very thing that we're talking. >> All right. Uh so as I had mentioned previously the preliminary plat for the fields at at Nibi uh this subdivision that has been the subject the last uh the last agenda item it it's um it was approved by the planning commission subject to reszone and development agreement approval. I'm not I don't have in the presentation I go into as much detail as you'd like. If you have more questions about the approval, you know, like Garrett had the question about the um the lot sizes and the number of lots that are allowed, all of that was reviewed by the planning commission. So, the planning commission's role is that administrative approval to make sure that it meets the code that is currently adopted. Um, of course, this was subject to the reszone approval and the development agre agreement approval be which the city council is the the final approval authority for because without both of these uh the uh the subdivision couldn't move forward. So although although the planning commission is that approval authority for the PLA uh the planning the city council um well it's approved strings for these these two the um I feel like I already went over this but the the subdivision includes 70 lots um about 19 and a half acres with 6.4 4 acres dedicated open space. It does meet the requirements open space subdivision for R2A zone and all those standards includes master plan trail on the northern boundary and storm water improvements to benefit the area. Um the reason why this development agreement is in front of you today is because really for two reasons. one it they're they're proposing a dedication of open space to to nibbly city. So anytime someone wants to dedicate land other other than public right of ways I guess but but dedicate open space it requires development agreement the city council needs to approve and then there's one deviation from city code that is being proposed and I'll go over what what that deviation is. So that also requires city council approval. Um but the development agreement, those two two items are the reason it's in front of you, but there's a number of other items that are included within this development. had had those two items not been included, like let's say it was private open space that the developer was had an HOA and they didn't have and and we weren't proposing this um this first uh exception to the animal land use regulations. This would actually just be uh approved by by the planning commission. So just just want to kind of let you know why this is in front of you today. Um so as far as the the term a summary of the terms that are in this development agreement uh the there it does reference open space restrictions that are consistent with with the code. Uh there's this exception is that the open space parcel dedicated to the city shall be treated as agricultural uh rather than as R2A. Um, as it relates to animal land use regulations, the recently amended animal land use regulations, there were one one of the provisions in that code is if it's zoned R2A, it does there large animals are not allowed. So really, this this just allows for the intended use of the property, which would house horses and other large animals. Without this exception, they'd be limited to small animals, chickens and >> Yeah. And treat it as I mean we we that's consistent with the way you guys are operating Morgan farm. I mean they they used to be zoned something and maybe zoned it agriculture. So you could do your thing better on that property, >> right? >> Another option would be not to adopt this and to reszone it agriculture after all of this happened. But we felt if you're going to consider this just just consider it at at this time and include it in the agreement. Um does include dedication of 6.41 acres to Nibi City of open space. I'll go through on the next slide some considerations of of that that um that staff considered that planning commission discussed. Uh the developer is required to install a three rail fence around the perimeter of the city dedicated space and also dividing the storm water basin. The reason for this was to make the space usable for its intended use. Uh within the open space subdivision ordinance there it doesn't necessarily contemplate this specific type of of development. Uh typically if they're dedicating it for example as a park, one thing one provision we have in there is that they're required to to provide grass. Um sometimes that's that's natural grass but sometimes it could be saw. Um in this case for for the intended use it made more sense to have a fence around the perimeter. Uh you probably don't want horses roaming the neighborhood. So that was the idea there. The developer is required to dedicate required water shares not just for the development but also for the open space um and what and what's required there. So just to clarify that it's it is in the code but we wanted to make sure it was clear in the agreement. Um developers required to provide street trees and there's really two options of of providing street trees every 50 ft. They could either put them in themselves or they could pay a fee and live and the city will will install the street trees. Uh the developers uh require to pipe the canal and build a trail. This includes a trail adjacent to Heritage Crossing. The um that is as is part of the master plan and which the but but the city will reimburse the developer for the cost of that short section of trail uh which isn't adjacent to the property. The city did receive a fee in lie of half the cost of that trail from the heritage crossing development. And at the time the kind of the justification of why they received half is because it was adjacent to the development. So kind of treated like we do half roads. Um they're required for for half of it. But we did a fee in lie rather than um rather than them building it and us us reimbursing it such a short section. So this this gets to the from would get the trail from 1200 west to you know through this subdivision and to the near the edge of the the lof uh property there. Um and the developer is required to provide a a runoff management plan as well. So, some things on the open space. Um, I realized a few of the things on this on this slide were considered as part of the subdivision. So, so the um I believe so. Let's see here. Oh, never mind. I I didn't include that. I'll I'll just I'll just dive into this. So the within the parks recreation open space master plan there is a there there are some criteria to consider when acquiring new open space um that provides a framework for the city to consider. So staff met, the um the parks, Tom engineering, the um recreation uh department met and and went through those different criteria. And this is just a summary of of that and and the and the evaluation of of this space. So in general um working farm it's a suitable use for the space and would further the mission of Morgan farm. Uh the preservation of open space is in line with the focus of the current general plan. The use of space would support the focus on agricultural heritage preservation and um the city should consider broad community benefit of the proposed use. Is is this just in general? There's there's limits on on what you could use this for, but there's also benefits just to consider there. Um the area is subject to flooding. We just wanted to note that um although the proposed open space will likely like likely benefit the broader communities only access through this neighborhood. Uh the area is shown as disincination for acquisition on the combined priorities map. this pime this primarily because the property is in close proximity to other existing plan parks and not contiguous with them. So within the there's a map within the uh open space master plan that that section of the plan uh which prioritizes areas for acquisition of open space. In general, the the the highest weighted category was its proximity to other parks. There's if it's right adjacent to another park, it it ranked it high on the list. If it's separated by, for example, a mile from another park, that's also high on the list. In this case, it ranked lower on the list because it's in relative close proximity to other parks and open spaces, but it's not directly contiguous to them. So, that that's where that comes from. So, just want to let you know why it was ranked as dis disincination. So had let's say let's say there was a this was right adjacent to uh the park at Meadow View, it would be ranked high, but because it's separated by by neighborhood. And the reason why I I think there there was definitely some logic there is in most cases with with open spaces like a, you know, a park, it it increases the cost of of maintenance if if we're maintaining a lot of little spaces. So the idea was to try to prioritize both areas that aren't currently served by parks and and building upon the park spaces we currently have or we're currently planning for. So that's where that disincclination comes from. But there's a lot of things to to weigh back and forth on whether whether to acquire acquire the space. the proposed an or the projected annual operation maintenance cost maintenance cost for the space is about 13,000 that was based upon um and and really that this is probably more of a cost to the city as far as what it what it costs to maintain. If Morgan Farm does more with it, then that that would be an additional cost, for example. But we we just based it on what the current budget was for Morgan Farm and then added what the maintenance would be for the trail and the storm water basin. That's kind of where that 13,000 number came from for an annual operating cost. Now, Morgan, like I said, Morgan Farm could do more with it. could be additional costs, but if this just staying the course of how we budgeted for Morgan Farm and then taking those other items into account, that's where that number came from. Um, there's two structures that are proposed to remain then they've they've been evaluated. There's there's one that kind of a pole barn that's proposed to be removed. Um but the two that are proposed to remain there's larger building with several horse stables and a smaller building that could could house um other animals and really I mean really the the horse stables could be used for other animals too. I mean you could be creative. I like I like the what what you sent over Norm but but that's that's what it was used for what it has been used for. So, and Tom, if you want to get into the more of the specifics of this, Tom could get into it, but just in general, the mitigation of structural deficiencies are estimated at $125,000. And there's also deficiencies, electrical, plumbing, and electrical systems. Those haven't been estimated, but there there have been some deficiencies noted there. As I mentioned, I would turn it over to Tom if you want to get into more detail on those items. Uh so that's a summary of of what's in the agreement. Both the planning commission and the staff approval is or sorry recommendation is approval of this ordinance with the condition the property be reszoned as R2A prior to the execution of the agreement. >> Thank you. I missed anything good to council like that is bring out another development agreement directed by the division season as the car inspection board in southwest

We need to make a motion for that. >> Well, we you so I we don't have a motion to adopt or reject the development claim. Typically on first reading we can it's about information and then um if this is adopted for first reading then we usually make motions to change like that when we get into the heavy lifting of second reading. I'm not going to discourage you from um making a motion to amend the development agreement but I will say we have to have a motion to adopt it or you can amend it. I make a motion to approve ordinance 2527 for first reading. Have a motion and a second from Aaron to adopt the development agreement for first reading. Make a substitute motion to amend the development agreement to add the developer right deficiencies in carbonate inspection and order. Okay, we have a motion to amend the development agreement as closed. Second from Nor. >> And so your reasoning is is they're donated. You want it to be usable? >> Yeah. Because of the experience we've had with all the parks that we're getting and how many millions of dollars we spending. It's just one more thing they're giving to the city and we have to spend a lot of money to make work. I'm I'm getting tired of that and my give it to usable and workable. We're not give it to us. That's kind of what I'm getting. On this topic, you have a right proponent to speak. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Tell us who you are. >> Josh Lo. Um, so we're definitely interested in participating in giving Morgan Farms um something that's great for their um for their use. One thing that I I I would like to visit probably with you Garrett and with the rest of uh the council and at least have a dialogue about it knowing that we are uh willing to to do something there. there's a little bit of a disconnect in my opinion between um like I think there's structural integrity and you you know this Garrett from from being in home sales probably that when Brian Carlson goes out and does an inspection on a house that was built in 1950 and it's not up to code um the house may be inhabitable and there may not be any any um harm in being in the home, but it doesn't meet today's code. And so I just want to make sure and it may be $125,000 and that's fine, but I just want to see what the difference is between um going by what Jim Palmer at Cartright put as far as it's not up to code and what is safe. Do you get what I'm saying >> or not? So, but I'm just basing all this off business to >> Yeah. >> Right. >> And so, >> so we don't I I think you're raising an excellent point. I'm definitely not arguing with you. Um it seems like we don't we don't know what's involved yet, right? um deficiencies of electrical, plumbing, and uh oh, it says electrical twice. That's what I'm seeing. >> Oh, sorry. >> That's my >> kind of a long >> It seems like we should understand what that number is. Um, and it seems like a chance to talk with Morgan Farm about the current structure and, you know, your intended use versus the existing conditions, which I'm I'm all for it here. I I think you're doing the right thing. I just don't know what that means yet, and I'm wondering if we can work that out before we get to second meeting. Um, so the motion >> we do we do have a substitute motion and second for us. So the thing you're debating now would include uh what Garrett said about the assets on the dedicated property must be acceptable, usable. What was the word brought to curve? >> Brought up to building the deficiencies have to be erected by a ground. So that's the that's the motion we're discussing. And so you're saying brother to burn no matter when they were built. Yeah. Yeah. That's why reference. Okay. at the councils at least. >> So Josh brings up a good point. The structures been there. It looks to be prior to 1980 in in that realm. I couldn't tell exactly based on the construction methods materials I observing. It's it's 40 years old plus. However, the city has a report that says there are deficiencies and our city attorney happens to be here. But that may bring some risk to the city having that report if it's if it's denied, neglected, or or not followed and something does happen. There may be some liabilities. I support what Garrett's saying. I don't think I think we need a little bit more time though to check out what the plumbing and electrical cost would be. And so Austin, I work on that over the next week and try to get those numbers. Just some some big prices from those contractors. But as as to usability compared to following this report, unless we have another report that says otherwise, I I would support what say. Okay. Um I'm a stickler on when we make amendments, we're looking at the new words on the screen, right? Do you have do you have words to go to that? I'm not I'm not trying to put you off at all. You're making a great point. I'm just you know how I am. It's like, "Oh, I thought what we adopted was this." And we can clean this all up at second reading if we need to, but you know, I thought what we adopted was this, and I thought what we adopted was this. And the only way we really know what we adopted is when we see the words on the screen. >> Yeah. I think verbage would be. >> Is this in the development agreement? >> Yeah. Can you pull that up since we have a substitute motion? >> Sorry, waiting a minute here. >> Maybe we could even do a substitute to by the next reading to come up with a verbage that comfortable to bring occupancy tonight, but that's our thing. Just to make sure that it's approved. >> Yeah. I'm willing to work on this until next training so we can get an executive. I mean that's what I said in the basics of it is you know developer will you know erect the deficiencies and bring up the code the southwest and northeast parts as part of an inspection in Portland. That's what I would put on the procession. Is council comfortable with that level of specificity since the motion is on first reading? >> Yeah. A little more information, >> but I like the direction, >> right? >> Yeah. >> So, that was kind of my suggestion is let's let's get down to those brass tags perhaps in second grade. I think Tom, you feel like you know where we're coming from. But let's not say we're going to come up with the words if we don't have the words that we're making up. >> So, we know we know the intent. So, I think that's a great discussion. >> Nevertheless, we still have to vote on the substitute motion. >> Unless we make another substitute or not. So I would be the substitute >> that we drop in the burden that Darren >> suggested for tonight >> that we go back to the original >> that's within our that's within our operating procedures. >> So there's a motion as second per. So that's that's what we're going to talk about now is to go back to the way it was and deal with this issue on second I think is your intent. Are you okay with that? Yes. Okay. Further discussion? Seeing none, I'll ask for a vote to adopt resolution. >> Yeah. But it's back to locally. I saw it in that X. >> It's maybe one more to add. >> Go ahead. Yeah. >> And not to do there, but I'm I know we got a lot of green space. So maybe when we're looking at the buildings, maybe you know all the watering systems on there. That's a lot of pasture to put up. So maybe if we can figure some type of keep that wet, keep the dust down and be able to do that. So we're looking at that. So that's a suggestion just to ask before so I can read it and and then too with the road being narrow let's maybe also before then explore parking how it's going to be a community to come in there where the people going to park that's part of the discussion too of what kind of parking lot we can have and when we take this over we don't have to worry about little flowers that connect well we don't have to do a you ladies trust us survey because we're not asking the federal general. You never know how we can get rid of those ideas and then we talk to the developer. >> Yeah, there's cost associated with that irrigation as well. Um, so to address your two concerns, we did ask for two 2-in landscape meters service these areas. So there there should be enough water service there to provide some landscape sprinklers and provide water to the stable areas of those buildings if we so choose. >> Sorry, is that secondary or >> it's okay. >> And then we did ask for parking lot that's off the road as well and that just be a ground parking just areas to get off the road and access the more the open space. Thank you, >> Eric. >> A separate question, something maybe carried over from um can you remind Levi is the requirement to have curb and gutter bid by the developer in the development agreement? >> It's it's in the preliminary plan. I don't recall if there's a specific provision in the development agreement, but do you remember do you remember Tom? There's not in the development agreement, but we can >> Is that something we put into a development agreement or is that typically assumed that the developer will put that in? >> You could I I will say that it's already approved in the preliminary plat. So, we're going to require it. If if if all this goes through and is approved the way the way it has been, it show I mean, you could see it on the screen there. they they show sidewalk, curb cutter, >> landscaping along that. >> So, if we want to get specific about it, we could add a provision in the development agreement, but >> that was actually expressed by >> Oh, planning commission. I couldn't. Yeah, sorry. Okay, >> so >> yeah, Tom Tom just mentioned that was expressed by planning commission as well. >> Yeah, so we've I mean we could add a provision just to be on the safe side if that's what you want. oppose the voting for first reading? Seeing none, I'll call for a vote of approval of the development agreement as presented for first reading to bring back. Those in favor, please say I post. Count that as floor and unos. So, we'll see it again. And we still have a lot of agenda to work on. But if help me if it took about two minutes. So that means 9:30 until 3 minutes. Z a will much growth in nibbly. I believe every everything that was written and requested to be in the public comment you have a copy of and Cheryl will make sure and Don will make sure that that gets into into the minutes. And so I don't have any other presentation other than that and wanted to turn it over to Eric that to maybe go through any formalities that he needs to take care of and then put in your shoes for discussion considerations. >> Welcome Eric. Thank you for coming. >> Thank you. It's good to be with you. Maybe just a little introduction. Uh although our firm has been serving nibly as city attorneys for a number of years now. Uh it's been a while since I've been here. Uh Patterson was was uh handling a lot of things and then you know Joey Yellow Boys. Um uh upon my graduation from law school uh even before I I took the bar, I went to work for the Utah Supreme Court working with Justice uh I Daniel Stewart and worked there for a year and a half before uh um going into private practice downtown with one of the big litigation firms. I did that for about five years and uh um then got into municipal bonds and municipal law and that's what I've been doing ever since. I believe I've I've uh helped nearly with all of their municipal bonds since uh for about past 25 years. Um I you know I'm I'm not sure if I should admit this tonight but I I do live in Kentucky. Uh, and I I I'm I'm I'm wearing a lapel pin that is a little bit distinctive. It's it is a gummy bear and uh but but there's a story behind that. But uh um

like you um I care very much about my community and people in it. and um one of our neighbor girls passed away this year. And so we wouldn't respond to her. Um you have before you uh you're you're planning on borrowing $3.5 million from the drinking board. Uh but they ask that for the public hearing uh you have to give maximum amounts. So they ask that you put a little extra in there just in case when the bids come in they're a little higher than expected. And so the public hearing is for $3.8 million. Okay. Uh the interest rate will be uh 2.5%. If you borrow $3.5 million at which is what has been approved by the drink and water board, you repay uh just over 4.2 million I think four 4,26,000 and maybe change over one year. Uh if you were to go out and borrow money at market rates, uh it would be in excess of five% to do that. And on the project, you would end up paying back uh about 7.87.89 million. And so I just share that so that uh the public understands that uh you're getting some some public grants and you're also getting a subsidized interest rate. And between those two things, uh you know, you're getting better than 40% subsidy for this project. So sometimes the question comes up, hey, are we getting the best deal possible? The answer is yes, you're getting a good deal. And and that is uh in line with the um u good planning and management that went into requests that you were able to qualify for that. Frankly, when I saw it, I thought, "Oh no, they're not giving that to everybody." So you're you're getting a good deal there. Uh there there is after public hearing there'll be a resolution that I'll walk you through quickly. It's it's a little lengthy so I'll just uh I'll get some of the highlights along there. But before we turn it over to the public, does anyone on the council have questions for me? >> Is there a prep penalty payment? Um or is it >> No. Can be prepaid at any time. No penalty. >> You find a lower interest 10 years. Now we just pay it off, refinance it. Yes, if you get lower than a 2.5% interest rate, absolutely. I don't know where you do that, but yeah. Or if I mean, we it's all kind of crystal ball. You guys have seen Justin's spreadsheet and help us, you know, decide, but if inact fees come in >> at a rate that we can afford to pay off the bond, then that's an option, right? >> Yeah. And and one thing I did remain, thank you. Um that I I work with about 200 different communities around the state on municipal bonds. We also also have some we generally legal work for about 25 communities around the state including um Price City, Richfield, Blanding, Manti, Gison, South Kongs. Um and uh in in looking at taking on this loan right now the city does not have any loans out for the water system. That is unusual. Okay. that evidences that there has been good management that what is in place uh has been uh taken care of so that it has lasted as long or longer than expected. It also shows that in development within the community that you've been able to uh do it in a way that passes along costs to the developers for for what they're bringing uh to the community. And so uh yeah in in looking at at taking on this loan at this time uh that is just an evidence of excellent management over many years Okay. Oh, please just do that one thing because that did come up quite a bit. The impact fees and our impact fees covering the cost of the the loan. So, right now the the annual payment on the loan is $250ish

and change. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, about $250 $250,000 is the annual payment. Last year, we doubled that in impact fees. The year before one and a half times that in impact fees. So as if development continues then yes this well for certain would be covered and paid off probably early with on the impact fees which translates to lower water rate for existing users and putting the burden on development for development issues instead of existing un users. Yeah. >> So I just can't everybody wants to know is development paying for this? Yes. But if development continues >> and I mean you all know how impact fees go. You go through a study to establish the level of service relative or are made available to nibbly citizens and we can charge an appropriate impact fee that is to not uh degrade that level of service because of new development. But to me, the short story is the rich get richer. And if you planned well, you can charge a big impact fee because you have a high level of service. And if you haven't done a good job and you have a low level of service, it's you can't make it up on impact fees. So, it it's a bit of a carriage before the horse or horse before the carriage. Not sure which, but um if we don't maintain a high level of service, then we won't be able to charge what I think are appropriate impact fees uh because of new development. >> And we remind us impact fees uh for homes and town homes. >> Great question. Offer me >> pull up. I think it's 2300 bucks for a single family and 80% of that maybe 83% of that for a townhouse or multif family. I think it's 1750ish off off of memory about 223,000 for a single family house totaling. >> Yeah, sorry that was just watering. Yeah, that's what I just >> I don't know if you wanted me to >> Okay, go ahead. >> Um, just on the timeline tonight, what's the timeline like for getting the bonds and then moving forward with the project? >> Yeah. Um, so the publication of the notice >> uh on the Utah public website and on the city website that started a 30-day period that will expire mid August and so we can close anytime mid August or later. Okay, let's uh let's turn it over to the public then. Let's open the public hearing. Thank you, Eric. >> I'll be here to answer. Okay, even better. Thank you. So, uh, with council's permission, we'll open the public hearing to consider this, uh, taking on this bond. And Joe Ferman is first up. >> Thank you, Joe. My concerns are the water itself. Uh, are there any studies that have been done on aquifer recharge? I mean, every time we sink a whale, I notice it running through my place. Uh, every time a subdivision is put in, I notice it when they start digging sewer trenches. Uh, well, the size, it's going to it's going to impact the the water. Yeah. for a lot. Uh the question I asked is has anything been done? Is there any study that has been shown uh how much water is generated each year? Of course, that fluctuates with the skull back in the rain and everything. Uh that compared with what will be taken out uh as we grow. We need to be more cognizant and in tune with the water. It's a big issue. It's a big issue. There are more wells being dug now than ever has before. Of course, Bill and and Gross uh was creating that. But uh Ny's main source for Wales and uh I think we need to be get on top of it more that than we are. Has anything been done? Has anybody have any studies as to what's what's going on with the aquifer? I've read reports about groundwater what there is, but who knows? I don't know. >> Does state engineer have any of that? >> Yeah. Can we uh we could offer information, Joe, but I think that's kind of bordering on a policy discussion. Can we answer that question after the public hearing and I think our answer will come from the division of water rights and the process we go through for a well permit. Right, Justin? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Could we answer that question after we get through the public hearing? >> Yes. Yes, I'd like to know. Okay, >> I would. >> We'll do our best. >> I would. Now, like I said, the water runs through my place, but there are users, too. Uh the flow gets smaller. Of course, we're in we're in a severe drought. I don't When was the last time we got ready in the valley? Like, April, March, April, May, somewhere in there. But uh water is a lifeblood. We need to protect what we have. We need to we need to conserve. So that that's that's my main message. I could go on and on, but it's getting late. The next meeting that would be fine. >> No, I I mean after the public hearing, not the next meeting, but in about in about 10 15 minutes. I don't know. I can write that one. >> You guys have been here before. >> Okay. >> Tonight we're gonna try to answer that question. >> Okay. >> Okay. That's all I >> John Payne. Is that why it says you took too long next to his name? >> Or both of you? >> Well, >> go ahead. You're in it. >> Um, I'm just curious. We just listen just got our tax county tax bills, right? And on that T county tax bill and unfortunately I left our vote on home was an increase for um water was like 95% increase on water. Now some of that money comes back to each entity. Okay. The state collects the revenue the um county collects revenue and then that is doled back out to the cities. I don't know what that percentage is, but I know the state has a formula for all that doing back out, but it was a 94.5% increase. >> This is a line item on your property tax bill, the cash water district. >> The cash water district. >> Ah, right. >> So, Nibl gets part of that. Not at all. Not not at all. >> That's that's to promote conservation efforts in Cash County. A different circus and a different set of monkeys. >> Okay. >> We don't we don't we don't get that money. >> So that isn't bad at all. >> Well, it's spent. >> It's spent in Cash County. >> Yeah. there's not a population or some >> the other entities are going to get somehow again I know that the >> I recall absolutely changed the formula if they had the breakdown and everything everybody gets a little bit any >> so they will have a through taxation process I'm sure and a public hearing that and they would love to hear from and we love to hear from you too. So just thinking about that tax bill on top of the tax and this bond that wants to come forward. Um because I agree personally that we are charging the developers enough money and the impact fees and um the point being is that in the past we had great management and building ideas and everything was wonderful. We didn't have to go out and bond to be person. Now we're avoiding a voting bond going for the emergency bond. Have we made a mistake somewhere? In the past, we didn't need to do this. Now we're building like there's no tomorrow and consuming water that may not be there tomorrow. Not really focusing on the conservation piece of it. And um are we charging the developers enough for the impact fees? >> Well, it's kind of a >> I'm going to call that a policy actually it >> I'm going to be here in two hours. >> I too would know what the answer is. >> Can watch it on YouTube. >> We're pretty hot. >> I'll do that. Um that was that was okay. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Yeah. Um the bond the emergency bond you know I mean 2.5 get for anything else. So I mean that that is a good thing. It's just why do we have to go back why do we have to go for it if we're charging development fees forever. >> Thank you. >> We're ready. Um, Eric dearly, this is my second time up here. I really came for the water and I appreciate the um Joe make sure I have the same concern. So Joe did everything she said. Um, I do want to know actually I want to know what other cities in the county are paying. Are they taking up bonds like this? Are we are they having to do this for our water and what are they doing and how are they donating? And maybe I should research that. But I would be interested to see what it is that they're doing um for their water and their green is growing quick and fast. There are not major major structures besides homes, right? We have a few industrials that are going on, but there isn't anything major. And so, I'd love to see what the comparison is in those. That would be great. Other than that, I will be very respectful because I think that you guys are honoring your service and I'm going to bring you this. So, this is going to sound very awesome, but I'm going to say it. my other so he can get mad at me but I would appreciate it if you wouldn't say hint nudge nudge to developers that are sitting in the audience they should do their due diligence which he is by being here and understanding the things that the city is asking for and being able to put that forward I I would just really appreciate that as a citizen and and maybe telling us to go look on YouTube, which some of us do, but look for these meetings on YouTube because we have families and we go there. But other than that, you're making good decisions and you're listening to citizen and you just want to do the right thing for neighborhoods, for water, uh for growth, and gosh, the family community that I think nibbly is putting out there on their website. >> So, I'm going to defend that statement. Thank you. Do you understand that I said that because we have no leverage to encourage that developer to give us something because of ordinance we already passed? If I'm trying to talk him into something that he doesn't have to do, >> I sure hope you don't. I mean, for real, I sure hope you don't. But he should know that, too, right? You should not have you at a council and should should not have leverage over a developer. So >> our ordinances give us ordinance give us leverage over development. They do. But you individually said pip pin nudge nudge for him to do his due diligence and he is here and he's an honorable man and he's doing his due diligence by being here but we shouldn't have to nudge him as a council member as a mayor or as a citizen. I mean you might it's just data. I'll just give you some some care. And I just I know a lot of people have left and that's probably like a long time ago, but it didn't sit well with me. And maybe I'm so just, you know, I think it's just disrespectful to those who voted June. I'll be happy to talk to you about this at any time after this meeting. >> Seven seven, don't say it out loud. >> Write it down and give it to >> Yes. Yes. Okay. Uh, who's next? Uh, Britney Irwin. >> All right. I haven't done this quite yet, but I think I'm going to defend the council on one of these items. So the impact fees we're like kind of worried like hey are they actually covering everything right? So in my experience as construction impact fee is usually on old permit year year and a half ago. Nibble probably has the highest impact fee and you know that changed I think about two or three years ago when they redid their study right so they used to be at about a 10 $10,000 you know permit fee which is similar to me. So I think nibly has already made efforts to make sure impact fees are keeping because they so I think and if I understand right if those impact fees come in great they're coming in that loan will be paid off quicker and then that dollar bond problem is that an accurate assumption >> or does it still go up just to start covering future >> yes it still goes up the rate increase really was to address existing deficiency The rate hadn't been adjusted for so the rate has more to do than with just the loan. It's just like hey we need more per water bill just because of other costs not necessarily because we have the loan. The impact fees are going to be what is addressing addressing the loan payment primarily primarily. Yes. And that extra $5 will also help. It will help the existing am okay to talk >> yeah it'll help the existing system existing program what we're doing now with maintenance and things like that it wasn't but there there are requirements level of income that the bank requires so the rate sort of helps us get approval of the loan but the actual dollars coming in are vast majority have been will be impact fees from developers Okay. And then the question for Tom based off of the water, it was based off of subdivision, but some of the water numbers he gave, what was 27,000 gallons per 10th acre comparable, right? And then so.1.1 acre uses about 27,000 gallons in the summer. A 1/3 acre uses 65,000 gallons, you know, in a summer. So, three houses on the third acre would use 8,100 gallons based off of those averages, which is 1,600 16,000 gallons more per acre. Did I do my math right? >> You know, it's like, yeah, obviously a third uses more than 10. But if you put three houses on a third, three will use more than a single pile. That That's how I did the math based on the number. I'm just wondering if I >> Yeah, go ahead. This is information. So, so the data we collected off of our meters and averaged over 165 units throughout town, there's about 28,000 Yeah. thousand gallons per smaller lot. >> There's about 45,000 used on the third acre. >> 45,000. Okay. >> Per month. And then there was about 64,000 on the half acre 45. >> So you can look at it as third acre lot uses 161% more than the 10th acre. >> But that would make sense. But technically you're putting 300% more houses on a third acre. So that makes my numbers even more drastic because on a third acre of land instead of using 45,000 gallons you're now using 81,000. Is that correct? >> Not according to our meters. So >> well that that's what you just said because a tenth of acre uses 26,000 gallons, right? >> About 28,000 28. So I did my numbers off 27. So if you have 27,000 used 10 acre then that means three houses at one acre use 81,000 right? One you know you do 27,000 * 3 >> that's 81,000 versus 1/3 acre and the uses 45,000. So that means you're using Yeah. you're 160% more. The Word is 160% more, but you're also compacting that by three. Whereas obviously the third acre is going to use more, but third acre of the three houses is going to use almost double almost 1.5 double. So it's like we're doubling water usage periphes on So I think that >> so if we develop 20 acres we're on double in water usage on these 20 acres. >> The number to look at Tom and >> sorry I forgot >> dollars per or gallons per acre for two different densities. So normalized on a per acre basis and we could do that offline. I I was just >> acly a lot. >> Jared, I see your point. I I mean, >> I think gallons per acre. >> Yeah. >> Um because we don't do 100% and besides we don't do 100% of culinary water for irrigation. So we shower and brush our teeth >> and that's also based off summer numbers. larger bling, but during the rest of the year, I I' I'd be interested to see a full year sample because larger loss will use more on the summer months where those are calculated. Smaller lots are going to be a lot more comparable to all of like half. >> Okay, half. So let's instead of doing the math in real time, I think Tom, but the the the figure to look at that Jared's pointing out, I think we will see what he's pointing out when we look at gallons per acre for different lot sizes. >> You're right. This this is based on gallons per household, >> right? >> So whether there's 70 >> households at this location or 70 spread throughout 90 acres, >> right? >> Yeah. So if there's 20 acres to develop, we can develop at a higher density or develop. We don't we don't do development. Developers can develop at a higher density or lower density. And what are the gallons per acre for different densities? >> Can we also do that based off of a year study, not just off of a summer study for that or that based on curious context. >> Thank you, Kyle again, right? And I appreciate the the work that's been put into the loan. I do appreciate that it's a two and an absent, right? And I think if the city needs to go forward with that, that's appropriate. Um, some of the questions I'd love to know, um, I don't know if you can address it now or or once you guys get into discussions, but, um, if we don't do this well, um, is our current water supply adequate for the existing, um, residents of Italy city. So, that's kind of one question. Are we already in a deficit as far as that goes? Um, in other words, I know that if we do more development, this is a must because you've got to supply the new growth. But if we don't continue more development, I'm just and this may not affect anything, but I'm curious as a home owner, will it affect anything? Um, if we don't do this for the current existing residents and then under the assumption, I guess if the development does not continue at this rate, and again, I grew up in Utah when Ivans was blowing up like crazy, late 90s, early 2000s, and growth was great, but what if it slows down? um then do we have to turn to the existing residents and are we going to have increase the water rate at a higher rate than what we currently those are some of my thoughts but I mean if we do move forward I do agree that I mean it's at a good rate if we have board with it so I just >> okay anyone Oh, this kind of another question. Sorry, Sandra Lel. Um, in the impact phase, we're assessing an impact fee to the developer and that's covering what costs? What does that actually entail? Because obviously it's not any type of impact fee that would include fire, police, emergency services, or anything like that. Or does it? What's the breaking or the impact being? >> Do you want to put the chart of all the impact fees up? >> Yeah. Water, sewer, transportation, park. >> So, we have Let's rattle them off. >> Yeah. So, sewer, >> you have a microphone. >> Sewer, Logan, wastewater treatment, water impact, park impact, and transportation. >> So, those are all impact fees that we charge. not of the developer of the homeowner. >> They pull a building permit >> of growth whether it continues. We will assume if our population increases and and our need for emergency services increases our maintenance and so on and so forth. Where are those fees going to come from? Is that bond is that bonding issue? warehouses, police stations, people were talking about crime and and we're fortunate where we are. We're not in a heavily developed area. So, we don't still lock our doors and roll down our room door and we still wake up in the morning. >> So, we contract with Cash County Sheriff for law enforcement. That's a Yeah, it's a it's not an impact fee that comes out of property tax, >> right? And um that's not one we have to bob for. >> But we don't have one of sheriffs. >> I'm not ready to defend the efficiency of the contract. I'm just trying to answer your question, >> but I think we get a great deal compared to >> the the fire thing. I will warn you that things are about to change because in 1960 mid60s Cash County Council created a countywide fire district except Logan. It's never been implemented and Logan is mad because they're paying county property tax just like we all pay county property tax, but they're not part of the county fire district. And so there's a steering committee. I'm on it. Don't ask me why or how because I'm dumb. But we will be creating along with mayors from the north part of the county plus a fire chief that goes with the county. We will be creating a cash county fire district minus slogan. Right now fire was brought up before we are uh we contract with the city of Hyum through a a partly voluntary fire system partly nonvoluntary. So, uh, we're trying to figure out how to create this fire district. And I, right now, the fire district has no taxation power, but eventually that's probably going to have to change. >> Yeah. >> And that's not a new growth thing. That's a 1964 thing. >> It's coming. Thank you. >> Hey Joe, >> I can't get off of this uh recharge for business. Uh is the irrigation company still proposing a secondary water system still in the works? >> We have a member of the board sitting here. He can answer the question. >> Yeah, it hasn't been talked about. >> Okay. So that will alleviate a lot of pressure from a needing a well. It was in a in a bad location. Uh all the other towns around put it in water tanks collecting the water uh that normally runs down and recharges I prefer. And uh I just feel like uh more attention needs to be put in that area so that we know that uh you know if we do spend a lot of money on a big well and uh the water table drops can't pump water can't get sufficient water for homes then what happens? just think the council needs to address that and be cautious with those those issues. So almost okay again take that up with the process of acquiring well rights and we have water tanks too. Did you know that Joe? We have water tanks too. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Anyone else? >> Where? >> Hollow road. Up by the gravel pit by the cash county >> on the west side of road. Like you could see him from your house. >> Can those be expanded? I'm sorry. Can those tanks be expanded? How much water can they collect? How I have no idea what these towns can can I flush all their water. >> Okay. Are there Joe? We're going to get to that. We're Justin's fighting at chomping at the bit to to try to answer your questions, but let's let's see if there's more public comment. >> Three, three, two, one. Okay, we'll close the public hearing and let's try to answer some questions. Let's start off with uh if you remember questions that Joe asked about how we received water rights to drill a new well. >> Perfect. So, in 2015, I believe was the last time that the city of Dibi went to the state for water right. And as part of that process to be approved for that water right, you had to do what's called a mitigation plan, which is essentially a way to mitigate your impact from drilling or using this water. And in Nibbli's case, it was a little bit of a unique and newer way of doing it. But basically what we did to take a long story, make it short, we own a lot of canal company shares that we do not use. We still pay for those shares, but the water just runs through the canal and stays in the system. And how they monitor it is land out of production. So if land goes out of production, then the water's not being used. And so it's supposed to theoretically stay in the system. Even if somebody abuses the canal system and now because there's no water in it, they're going to put twice as much on their field. The field is only able to use so much. The rest goes into the aquifer and stays into the system. So the whole water rights system was tried to be designed so that there wouldn't be this huge impact on the system as a whole. Now that's that's a whole kind of valleywide thing. What that and so specifically about the aquifer that we suck water out of. We have done studies with consultants to to do uh sighting studies to uh you know make sure that the aquifers are there and they're healthy. We've have we the last well we drilled I can tell you this we've be using that well now since 2016 maybe early 17. The water level is 5 ft higher today than when we started sucking that water. And so I mean that's kind of anecdotal and short short vision. Um but from all respects what we can see currently this the aquifer seems healthy. When we test pumped that last well we pumped 4,000 gallons a minute for I think like almost a week. When we turned that well off, the time the level the time it took for the aquifer to rebound, they couldn't pull the tape up fast enough to to record it and it rebounded completely within a matter of minutes. And so there is a lot of water down there down in the aquifer that we are using. Now that's not to say we should abuse it. That's not to say we don't need to care about it. We don't need to take care of it. But with the way the water right was designed to try to not impact the greater good um we feel and and the reason I'm bringing this up is this well was planned back then back then this well was on the books we knew about how big it needed to be and the amount of water used was figured into that well right that's why I brought the well right up so from my perspective the way the well right was the water right was designed and what we're actually seeing in the Plus the reports that we've had done, consultants, we feel that the water the aquafer is healthy and sustainable to use this amount of water for the foreseeable future. >> And what time of year was that done? Asked >> uh good question. I want say early winter late. Yeah, that's all. Yeah, I I maybe I have to do some checking. There were snow on the ground. >> What What depth do our wells operate? >> So, ours are drilled to 660 or about 650 ft deep into a confined aquifer. The pumps are about 200 feet down, but the screens and where all the water is is comes from nearly 600 ft. And this wall is projected to be the same depth. Same depth, slightly smaller uh capacity, but just a little smaller than the 640, the last one. Which which brings me up to maybe just one point if I could touch on something that Sandre has asked. I'm not aware of a timely city drilled a well and didn't take out a bomb. >> That's right. >> I also happen to be very knowledgeable through these types of loans and there's a lot of uh municipalities across state Utah that uh have to come to borrow to do I believe both North Logan and Smithfield have both been to the drinking water board to secure loans for the two wells that they've just drilled. about a mill drilled one. I don't know where they got it on the memory. I can't remember. But it's it's very common. And part of the part of the problem is you're trying to Yeah. We want to put the burden on development, but sometimes the development hasn't quite happened yet. And so we're trying to forecast. We're trying to look ahead. And that's where kind of the risk comes into the question that was asked about whether what would happen to the rate. The rate is designed for us to scrape by if all developments cease. How they do that is what they call debt coverage ratio and they have to look at it two ways with impact fees and without impact fees. You have to have a one ratio basically to your expenses to your revenue based on your rate without your impact fees to qualify for the loan. that we would break by theoretically by the scheme if development stops again that good management. >> It seems like we can cover it even if there's no development. That's the question you asked, right? >> And there's >> Yeah. to to model your equipment. That would be when we moved and asked for the loan, the only question that was asked of us was how did your water be so low? You when we when the council adopted um Mr. Rod, you asked this, I think comparison to other towns, when the council adopted the new rates, we had a chart from you showing water rates. And if you didn't ask it, I apologize, but showing other rates for cities in Cash Valley and and elsewhere, I'm not sure you can put your fingers on that at the moment, but that was all part of the water rate discussion that faculty. Do you you remember that as well as me? Yeah. >> And it's qualitatively, you have to see the numbers to believe me. I won't ask you to take it on faith. But the question is, how can Nibbley have such low water rates? 1,000 gallons of clean, pure water de delivered to your house under pressure costs right now about a dollar. If you collected all the water that fell on your rooftop, if you have an average size house in Italy, and put it in barrels and put it on your lawn, you would collect about $13 worth of water through the irrigation season. Dollars being how many gallons Nibi City will give you at a thousand gallons per dollar. And it's a shame actually the low water rates that we charge don't encourage conservation. All right, we're I mean we've closed public hearing. We need to move on to uh not answering questions from the public hearing but uh dealing with uh the next item on the agenda which is consideration of a resolution that would uh authorize this waffle >> and just thank you. I think kind of some of the the public comments and also just a little bit of education for the for the council. So, uh, our approach in America is to leave dollars in the citizens pockets until we leave. Okay. And so, cities are procluded from building up slush funds to handle large public projects, which requires them to then borrow money. They do have problem with. I have personally assisted the following communities in Cash County with um water bonds. Was Mandon Hyram, Milville, Providence, Pike Park, Richmond, Newton, Trenton, Clarkston, Hornish. And so it is standard for communities to borrow money to do a significant water project, meaning something beyond operation maintenance. Also, new development, you can only require them to pay for their additional impact. You cannot require them to pay for the citizens that are already in the community. And when there needs to be upgrades to the existing uh infrastructure uh replacements and things like that then then that has to be charged to the existing ones. So just just to address some things that came if we can now turn to resolution for the bonds let me walk through some of the um more important provisions. I'm not going to go through with all but because it's longer I think it's just appropriate. Uh it really starts with section 2.1 on page six where uh that's where the um approval of $3.5 million loan bearing 2.5% interest uh is approved. And then in section 2.3 you have uh laid out a schedule for um repaying the principal. As was stated earlier the the uh annual payment is is between $240 and $250,000 a year. Uh 2.4 4 says that it can be repaid at any time at the option of the city. 2.5 talks about procedures to do that. Uh there is one point in section 2.7 that I want to point out and that is that the drinking water board who is also your regulatory loan is giving you a nice low interest rate but they're serious about getting you paid and they say if you are delinquent in your payments the delinquent rate is 18%. Okay? So, if there was ever a problem, don't hide your head in the sand. Give me a call and we'll put the drinking water and we'll get it taken care of. But, um, they're serious about being repaid. And because they're state, they can get at you in other ways if they need to. Um, uh, these bond funds under section 3.2 on page 12 will go into construction escrow. And then section 3.4 floor talks about how your water revenue fund is going to be uh administered. So uh first of all the first thing that you have to pay for is the operation and maintenance of the system because if the system isn't working well and you can't deliver the water and charge the rates and fees then you don't collect any money and so the first dollars go to operation and maintenance costs and then under uh subbi uh you then set aside the money to make your next principle and interest payment. After then you to set aside enough money over a period of 10 years, you set aside enough money to make one payment. Okay? That's what is called a reserve fund. So they give you 10 years to build up that reserve fund and then you just hold that reserve fund and uh if there's ever a problem, it's there and it'll pay two weeks. The other thing that the drinking water board requires under uh B uh li little three is that they want you to have the capital replacement facility fund. And so you set aside 5% uh for cap future capital facilities into savings uh each year as long as the school is outst uh those funds can be in invested PTI for banks or things like that. In section 4.1B on page 17, you commit to charge rates that will be sufficient to not only cover your operation and maintenance, but also the repayment of this loan plus 25% more than this loan. The reason for that is because um if I if if if you were to get into trouble and you couldn't make a payment, your lender can only look to your water revenues for repayment. They cannot look to taxes or anything else. And so they require that extra 25% cushion. So that's 25% more than the $250,000.

um questions about that. Just in case you're wondering, both the 5% capital replacement fee can come into that extra 25% as the resume. Uh you make various commitments. Um, one of the things if you do commit to is that you will collect your your water bill that if someone is delinquent, you will take the steps to collect it because that's that's the only security that your lender has. Um, >> yes. >> Is there a percentage that you have to maintain? See, we'll go again 100%. Is there a percentage of you got to click a percentage of what of the water bills >> are are any delinquencies allowed? >> No, no delinquencies are allowed. No, you you are committed to collect from everybody. And now now obviously delinquencies occur and but when they do occur, you have enforce an enforcement ordinance already adopted in place and you're committing to follow. >> You're saying we promise we'll do what we said we collecting those water >> like turn off their water as an as a last resort. Yes. Comment >> agreement. >> Okay. Um in section 4.2 uh there's a provision that says you can incur additional debt in parody with these bonds and it lays out the provisions for that which is mostly that water rates will be high enough to produce that 25% coverage and uh that that's primary provision there. Um, >> That's about it. Some of the others, you know, they just say, "Hey, we approved to settle the bonds." Um, and they talk about the public hearing was just held and statuto authority for doing it. Um, so those are the primary provisions in the resolution. Are there any questions? >> Is there anything outside of our current uh policies and procedures that you see that would be in violation of this? >> No, you're you're already in good shape. I I helped the city with a similar bond back in 2012. It's already been paid off. and you you're still in good shape. Let me just repeat. Um despite what we see on the evening news with the waste and abuse uh with federal government and whatnot, that was not a play. Millie City is wellmanaged and well and it's its citizens can be proud of that and there's a lot of details they can dive into, but as someone that works with many communities on these types of things. Let me just reassure you. You guys are right down the middle of Fairway. your your shooting, >> mayor. I would I would add that uh because uh this involves the incurrence of debt, it will require >> Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. Thanks. On final adoption on resolutions, we we always do a roll call vote. Final adoption, not on a first reading. Thank you. >> In in the packet, the rectangle. >> Yeah, we're we're ready. So, it's just up to you. If you if you feel that you would like to bring this back to second, we're fine with that, but we're ready. >> So, I get in trouble with the council when I let public hearings go all night. There's an agenda item for a public hearing and that's when we take input. Then there's a time for the council to do their work. >> Council, I'll leave it to you. So, I'm not sad. >> Okay. Um, anyone else you ready to move on? Okay. Thank you. Uh, so a motion would be appropriate. We could discuss it. Thank you, Eric. >> Yeah, I'll make a motion. Approve resolution 2526 and wave second reading. >> We have a motion from Aaron second from Norm to approve 2526 as presented and to wave second reading. Discussion on that please. I appreciate all the effort that was put in here. We talked about previous like the further you put out a project the more it costs with you know different rates at different times and I think the staff is great with returning seen the buy on interest rate and different uh grants and stuff to load it. So I appreciate all the effort to get what we else. So So we established that we have borrowed money before to drill wells >> similar water problems. >> Yeah. Okay. Um I don't mind summarizing what other debt the city has. We we just went through this in the budget process. We have we have we have two debts outstanding. One is we're still paying off the sewer project. Um there was lots of stuff. Milville will be paying for it longer than we will. I'm happy to say. Not that I'm in competition with Milville. Uh that's a 0% loan. We've considered paying that off early, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay off a 0% loan. Uh we are still paying off a loan on this building. um we are earning more interest than the interest we are paying and so we're not paying that off at the time. The council in the budget has approved uh enough money to pay off the loan if and when that ever changes and we're we're not far from paying it off on a normal schedule anyway. We can go through all those details. It's not a budget hearing, but we did we did visit all that, excuse me, in the budget hearing budget discussion. So, those are the other full disclosure, those are the other things that the citizens of nibbly uh owe in terms of loans. The balance budget doesn't mean don't take out loans. It means that you have a source of income to pay off the terms of the loans that you have accepted. unlike what we hear on the on the evening news, right, Eric? >> Yes. And one of the things that is important is that um impact fees must be spent within six years of when they're collected. And those impact fees can go to help pay down the debt. So, it isn't all necessarily on the shoulders of existing. >> Okay. Uh, is there an objection to voting on a motion to adopt? Seeing none, uh, Talon, if you'll call the RO for us, please. >> Council member Larson, >> in favor. >> Council member Speed >> in favor. >> Council member Man >> in favor. >> Council member Manz in favor. We count that four in favor, none opposed. And so that's final. Thank you, council. Thank you, Eric. Appreciate your advice on that. Yes. Do you want to use a microphone? So, our amazingly large E2 bowing conties. >> Hey, we I've heard there's some on there. >> I know. >> I'm just saying. >> I was just going to note that that my daughter was up here in the catch valley. She trains uh sheep dogs. She has some bird collies. She was up here um training her sheep dogs this evening. But I I look outside and I see that she already got done. Is she waiting for a right moment with you? >> No, unfortunately not. But >> thank you very much. >> Appreciate you, Eric. >> Okay. Next item is uh council to consider resolution 25-23. This is an agreement with the state of uh UD do I'm sorry with UD do on active transportation plan um that the trail that they are planning called the blacksmith fork river trail. We've talked about this before. We have some new information for you. You want me to just do this? >> Yeah, go for happy to if you want. >> Okay, you go ahead. >> The only new information was that we reached out to you do and expressed our desires that were expressed by you all. about making sure that the west side of the highway was connected to the trail so that the majority of Nibi City residents didn't have to cross 2600 South or at 165 and cross that busy highway just to get to the trail. So, at first it was yes, yes, yes, and then it was like, well, hold on. Had to think about it. And then the last we got from U DOT was that yes indeed they will consider that as the route for the main trail along the west side of 165 from 2600 South to the trail which includes somehow getting across the river. Whether that's a pedestrian bridge or whether they do something with the existing bridge is still a little bit yet to be determined. We also expressed just that we have a really hard time accepting this agreement or accepting maintenance on this when we don't really know exactly what the design is going to be that could be sort of mitigated if we were ensured that we would be involved in the process of design and consideration of alternatives and what was going to happen with the design. They assured us that we could be involved would be involved in that in those discussions and that decision. So that's really the only two things that have changed or new information. >> Yeah. So we do know what they're planning to get across the river in the letter from Darren Q. It's uh um I'll just read it to you short. Per our per our meeting discussion. So this is a meeting discussion between you do and the contractors who designed the trail. All right. Uh that was that happened on Tuesday. We will proceed with the trail design crossing SR 165 at 2600 South at grade and proceed with the trail on the west side of SR 165. That's what we want as opposed to uh nibbly citizens having to cross 165 to get to the trail. right at the intersection of 2600 Dwax north across the Blacksmith Fork River with a pedestrian bridge. >> So that yeah, now as as welcome of news as I see that, there's still one small missing piece and that is a signalized crosswalk across 2600 South, >> right? Because currently the intersection at 2600 South and 165 is only a two-way signal crosswalk. >> We need that. >> And in this message from Darren at UD do, he committed to a crosswalk across 165 on the north side of 120 of 2600 South. And actually that's fine and good. That will help the Millville residents who by the way refuse to take part in this maintenance agreement. Um, but that since and I pointed out in an email to Darren, uh, that's great news, but remember the majority of Nively residents live to the southwest of that intersection. And so we need a signalized crosswalk across 2600 South >> here. >> Exactly. and I drew a map and sent him that and I haven't heard but I say we hold out for that or we're not really interested in helping maintain this trail. Now, this is a fantastic trail. I wish Joe was still here. He left at exactly the right time because there's a major defect in this trail design and and it's it's because of a conservation easement that we in Cash Valley $20 million bought his uh development rights and we can't step on his land. And I will tell that to Joe again and again and again. So this trail will go up the west side of 165. uh will turn to the river at uh Blackstone, the south boundary of Blackstone, and then it will act there actually. Then it will then in fact be the Blacksmith Fork River, but we have to run or bike whatever you want along on a separate trail uh along Joe Ferman's property. And I'm not happy about that. And Joe knows I'm not happy about that. And we paid to buy the conservation rights for something we cannot have a trail on. And that's a cash county problem. I guess I'm a little testy tonight. I might as well just just give it all out. Anyways, this is going to be a great trail for the city of Nibi. Basically, it's there's no eman. >> Yeah, I'll answer the question. So, Joe has a couple of conservation ements. One is a Leroy Mallister conservation easement which was given to him by the state with the condition that he and he's allowed to not give access to his land through that Leroy Mallister conservation eman county open space bond that we all passed that I'm not saying we all passed that we passed as a collective $20 million to conserve uh open space in Cash County. We gave Joe more money for development rights. And as a condition of giving him that money, we also said, "By the way, we will grant you no requirement in perpetuity to not give trail access along the river." >> So, that's my soap box for the night. I think we could have done better, >> but it's going to be a great trail >> despite that work around it. >> Um, we get to look at his property and then once we get north of him, we get to jog over and and go over by the river. >> So, mayor, do you want a motion to take over this? Uh what I would like from the council if you trust me >> because I think the one missing link >> is this crosswalk and I've expressed that concern to Darren uh from Utah. I would like the council to authorize me to I have to sign this saying that uh the council agrees to but but in your motion say don't sign it until that crosswalk is part of the design. >> I'll second that. >> Did I make a motion? I'm allowed to do that. So, I move we adopt uh the resolution 2523 agreeing to uh maintenance on the Blacksmith for River Trail contingent on the mayor not signing that agreement until we see the design includes the crosswalk on the west side of Route Highway 165 across 2600 South. And that's your second >> passing for a second reading. >> And I include in my We've already had a Yeah, this is second reading. We've already had first one. >> You have that Larry. You're You just need to chill out. Look at your >> You're just a little worked up. It's fine, but I just want to be late. You >> want to post? All right, we'll proceed with the roll call, please. >> Council member Larson >> in favor. >> Council member Sweden >> in favor. >> Council member Gan >> in favor. >> Council member Manzel in favor. >> Council directly. >> Okay, moving that along. Let's talk about uh ordinance 25-24 amending code for classification new and unlisted uses. All right. Um I can get through this relatively quickly. I will say the next two items are not as timesensitive as maybe a few other items just looking at the time and night, but I'm happy to to go through this. Um this is one of them. This is a requirement that came out of the state legislature this last year, Senate Bill 179, which uh it requires each municipality to enact a land use regulation establishing both a process for reviewing business use that's not listed as improved use and existing ordinances. Um and and so what what what this would do is establish that pro a process for classifying uses a process for a legislative action for new or unlisted business uses which is a little bit different than a code amendment and I'll explain why. And it establishes the administrative appeal hearings officer as the appeal authority for both classification of uses and legislative action for new or unlisted business uses which is a little weird but that's what is required of of the of the state uh legislature. Um so may maybe I'll I guess that's the only the only detail I have on the slide. Um, just to go into a little bit more detail, the process to classify uses that that authorizes it. In my mind, it formalizes what we already do and add some detail to it. And really this this is on um the city planners shoulders that if someone comes in either with a business license or it could be prior it could be um outside of a business license and they have a use that they would like to propose. Um the city planner would say yes that's permit that's that's on the chart. This this is what he described. This is what this is what it's classified as. Say someone comes in and they say, "I want to open up a store that sells dog treats." Well, I I I look at the chart. Okay, this fits under pet services. And I tell them, "This is not permitted. This is conditional or this is a a permitted use." And then they go through the appropriate process. It's practical for it to happen at that level. If it were to happen, if the plan if the planning commission or the city council had to do that, that would be very arduous for the applicant. And so what this does, um, what this I feel like what this adds to the process, which we don't necessarily currently have, is an appeal process. So if I tell them, oh, I think this is called this classification and they don't agree with it, they can appeal it to um our administrative appeal officer and and then they may appeal that interpretation that I that I had made. Uh what it also does is establishes a process where if it is a new or an unlisted b business use, if it's not on the chart or it's not allowed in that specific zone, there's a separate but similar process to what we do for a code amendment uh for for adding it to the chart or consideration of adding it to the chart and adding it to the appropriate ate zones. Um, practically I'm just going to say the only difference here is that uh there's a time frame has to be done within 60 days and it is uh it can be that decision can be appealed to the administrative appeal hearings officer. I don't know what process they would go through if that appeal ever came up, but the state tells us that that's the case where now the only way um to appeal uh an admin uh legislative action would be through referendum. So typically our administrative appeal officer he'll he he acts in a quas quasi judicial manner and he just applies the law as it's written. He doesn't necessarily interpret whether creating the new law or was was the right decision or not. In this case it kind of gives them a little bit of a different role which to me is odd but that's what the state legislature has told us we have to do. I think they might there's g it'll be it'll be interesting how this plays out. We'll see if it even becomes a problem. But uh this ordinance that's in front of you today establishes a process. Uh staff did do some research and found found some examples. A lot of this language was borrowed from Hurricane City. They they adopted an ordinance that um and and it was adapted to kind of fit what we felt was like our needs. Planning commission has reviewed this and and recommends this for approval. >> Okay. Thank you, Levi. Questions for Levi? >> May give me a motion to approve or 24 first reading. We have a motion from Norm and a second from K to approve the ordinance on first reading. Any additional work we need Levi to do before second reading? Just just to be clear, state says we have to do this. >> So, right, we can >> and and I think in some ways it's a positive things. In other ways, it's like h why are we doing that? But we're a creature of the state, so we'll do what they tell us. >> And it's only on commercial. >> Yeah. Business uses. >> Business uses. >> Yeah. Yeah. So technically, you're right. It doesn't apply to residential. I I suppose >> we have some to encourage economic development. We have some pretty

friendly land use restrictions friendly to business owners land use restrictions on business operations. Okay. Discussion beyond that. Anyone opposed voting? Seeing no opposition, those in favor of adopting 25-24 for first reading, please say I. I. >> Motion passes. Thanks. We'll come back and I don't see any action items for you. We'll just Okay. >> Okay. Uh you're on a roll, Levi. Let's talk about flag lots with ordinance 2525. >> Yeah. So, uh, the city currently has an ordinance which regulates flag lots and, uh, this this ordinance just real briefly would lift the restriction on flag lots on arterial roads. Uh, what what spurred this was the city the city does own the property next door here and just looking at potential for that for that property. uh this restriction would make it so you couldn't create a flag lot on that property. But then just looking even beyond that when you look along 3200 South several long narrow properties and just through the discussion of with with planning commission uh didn't feel like this was necessary to just outright restrict flag lots on arterial roads. Um, I guess another another example is along 165. I mean, there's there's plenty of long deep lots along there. And so, this would lift that restriction. There are still several other restrictions that would make it difficult to develop flag lots even within those areas. Uh, which, you know, we can go over if if there's a master plan road, for example, you you couldn't do a flag lot. Um but but this would lift that restriction. That's it. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Obviously by lifting the restriction they still have to meet all the codes that you have to >> Yeah. Everything else applies just it doesn't it just doesn't when we looked at it it's like well where else would flag lots go in nibbly? not very many other places that aren't already along these arterial roads. >> But if for example this would approve, they wouldn't be uh input from the neighbors. They just check boxes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean they would they would have to go through it's not cons flagg is not considered a um you do have to go through the preliminary plat process preliminary and final plat. So it does go to planning commission. It's not necessarily a but it's no it's not a legislative decision unless they have to do a reszone but if it meets meets the underlying zoning then no it's administrative decision >> and the lot still have to be tied to >> yeah everything all the setbacks all of that applies we we looked at that because the setbacks become an issue too with with flag lots and the amount of space that's required but at this point in time it's just this one restriction that was >> uh no not really anywhere would you be able to do that because of the underlying zoning in in all of the residential zones is 10 ft. So, the the open space subdivision with those lot sizes, there's modifications to those, but a flag lot really is isn't the way the restrictions are, they're not incorporated into a a subdivision like like an open space subdivision. >> It's really more of a leftover piece. >> Uh 25, depending on the zone, could be 25 or 30 feet in the backyard. 30 feet in the front yard. 35 if it's on on arterial road. So >> all the stuff that applied to regular lots. >> Yeah. I can get a motion to approve orders 2528. >> Oh, sorry. 2525. Have a motion and a second to approve 2525 and wait second reading. The real deal. How many I mean the idea Levi how many uh how many potential flag lots that's pretty tough could be created from this change. That's that's yeah that's difficult to say. It's still very limited. I'll just say that we we haven't gone through and counted, but the even the majority of the lots that are there don't have the frontage and and you maybe they could buy some from their neighbor >> and do a lot line adjustment, but >> it just opens it up a little bit as a potential >> um because you need really you need 130 ft of front edge to do a flag lot in in like an R2 zone because you need the 100 ft and And you need an extra 30 ft for the ingress and egress for the flag lot. And there there's not a ton of them in that. And they they could they could have a lot more frontage, in which case they wouldn't be doing a flag lot. They'd be doing another subdivision because they could fit roads and and other lots in there. So, it's it's pretty limited, but at least it it it's allowed in some it would be allowed in some places that are appropriate. We feel like, comments, anyone opposed to voting? Seeing none, please call the roll call to council member. Council members reading >> in favor. Council member man. >> Council member Mans. >> Four in favor, none opposed. So that's the new code. Moving right along. 2528. This is adjusting municipal boundaries for the city of Newly. Adding parcels dot dot dot. Seems like we've been through this before and that's part of your explanation, right? >> Yes. Yeah. So you already made this decision back in October. Uh because of the amount of time that has lapsed and because the document was not recorded, you we only have 60 days from that time and I think just through change of staff with with people who were involved and some maybe miscommunication never got recorded. So, this is basically just a reconsideration of what you decided back in October, which was to adjust the boundary between Logan City and Nibbly, Nibbi City, and include the area that you see up on the map, 2200 South, and Highway 165 or sorry, and Highway 8991 um into Nibi City. gonna have to do. >> Yeah. And it's I I was told it's supposed to be on their agenda next week, but yeah. >> So, we did spend effort on this. It even got mentioned earlier tonight. I'll stay on task. Uh, one of the one of the I think good outcomes of this whole process was it minimized mitigated the impacts to the charter school directly south. We have a development agreement that we also adopted in October. >> Yeah. And that's been recorded and all of that none of that changes. Like I just want to say nothing in front of you is different from what you had already approved. It's just too much time has passed >> to record >> to record it >> with the county. >> So that that work is still intact. A motion to approve ordinance 258 second reading. >> A motion and a from Norman and a second from K to approve 2528 and wait. Any discussion? Seeing none, please call the roll call. Council member Lar in favor. >> Council member speed in >> favor. >> Council member. Council member Le. Okay, thank you. I count that as four in favor, none oppos. And moving right along, we have discussion, consideration. This is an acceptance of uh annexation petition. Doesn't actually do the annexation, but we have to go through the process if we're going to accept a petition for annexation. We've talked about this property before, but this one's a little bit different, right? >> A smaller context, >> right? So, this this was included in another annexation that has been discussed at length uh that was included with Carter Homes. And what is being proposed by by the proponent is just to include this approximately 10 acre parcel and and the 1200 West ride ofway adjacent to it. uh just to get ahead the as as you might remember there are some hiccups with the other annexation and rather than waiting for all of those to work out this this proponent has opted to um petition the city to annex just their property um directly south of Nibbi Farms. And so what what's in front of you is is a consideration to accept the petition for further consideration. That's not that's yeah that's not in front of you. So after this uh well that's a good question whether the planning commission needs to re-recommend the zoning on this property that they already recommended the zoning on. But that's that's the planning commission's role is to recommend the zoning and then and then that would come to you. I believe the applicant has requested R2A zoning and that's that's what the planning commission previously recommended. I'll I'll confirm whether they need to do that again. I don't I wouldn't think they would need to, but >> that was in a larger context though. >> It was. But they did make that recommendation specific to this property. So we could do it again, I suppose. >> Still, >> right? >> Okay. And this is not a resolution. It's not an ordinance. So we don't need second. Have a motion from Lauren, a second from K to accept the petition for annexation on this part. Further discussion seeing none. Uh is there an objection to voting? Seeing none, uh yeah, I'm kind of repeating myself. Those in favor, please say I to accept the petition. I >> any opposed. >> Okay, we'll accept it. Um, Steve, we kind of warned you about this. >> You okay? >> All right. Um, given the >> I don't know what you guys were saying. Yeah. >> Avoid spending any money for the rest of the evening. >> We're Yes, man. At the moment, yes, people. Uh, I'm going to move to suspend the agenda and um postpone items 17 and 8 software discussions and purchases thereof until our next meeting. That's my motion. So, I had a second from Norm. What do you think? Should we get after >> I think we need to stop playing at the end of three times. >> Bla, you were here for item 16. >> Yeah, for that last petition. >> Yeah, for the petition. >> So now I'll >> But you just got here >> and weed it. >> It's like what did you bunch? >> Right. Those in favor agend. Okay. Uh we are to council and staff reports and go ahead please. I just had a phone call with somebody who lives in Nibi. um wanted to kind of relay and see this topic we could bring up to discuss maybe in another meeting. Um somebody who lives right at the intersection of 2600 South and 10 West and we had a city council meeting about this was it last year with several residents who live in that area concerned about speed and stop sign on that intersection. Um there's been a couple of accidents right at that intersection in the past few weeks and the person I spoke with who lives right there at the corner um said they have a they they spoken with the sheriff's office so they had the sheriff's office was there and so they also have put up a camera that's facing the intersection they've been getting some footage and they feel like there's a lot of confusion about um people pull up east west and there's a stop sign but there's not a stop sign north stop and that's she thinks that that has been the source of confusion for some of these accidents that have happened people thinking they need to stop going north when in fact they don't need to stop things like that. So, I wanted to maybe we could talk with the sheriff office and find out talk to the officer who there find out what exactly was the cause of the accidents. Um, if was it that um and if so, if there's maybe something we could do to help bring attention to exactly where the stop signs are and where they're not. For example, like maybe with the flashing stop signs rather than just the traditional middle stop signs or a sign underneath the stop sign that says cross, you know, cross traffic does not stop or something that might help bring awareness to which side's supposed to be going, which side's not. But maybe that's a conversation we could have out of this session or next week talking about this. >> Yeah, we can talk about it. Tom, how much work is it to do to see if a four-way stop was warranted there? >> It's a bid. >> Yeah, to establish peak hour traffic. >> We do that like >> after school is back on if we do it. >> I kind of wonder if I mean there's limited things we can do with that intersection. We don't we don't have any rights away public private property all around it. Um then any any survey or study will have to be postponed till after 12 West is done. They're going to be shutting that down in and on and off throughout this >> or it will be invalid. >> Yeah. It wouldn't be really reflective of what's actually going on. There's last year we were hoping to do it with 12 West being delayed. It took so long for them to get that done. We didn't do that intersection. It is on a list keeps getting bombed. I apologize. >> I'm sorry. Okay. But I can share that. So, it's on a list to be further study though. >> Yeah, we have a list of several long takes. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Do you want to take it up with Tom outside of the meeting? Yeah. That's nice. I think that's all I can I've had similar conversations by the way residents in there. As much as I dislike four way stops may just be the only solution but also the idea of making it less confusing sense. Mhm. >> So, I had three residents um approach me asking if we could revisit dogs on leashes and fire. I'm just going to relay that as well. I spent quite a bit of time with particular resident yesterday and Tom really helped helped with someone follow up. Appreciate the time that you took time to help um clarify what was happening as far as construction next to them because they were very confused about what was happening even though it wasn't necessarily a city construction job. Obviously, the city approves things and they were very, very confused and it was unsettling and very uncomfortable for them to look at these markers and these flags and things back up and they didn't understand what was happening. So, thanks for helping to help them might come up again and project. >> So, we've touched on the whole idea of dogs on leashes in fire bark. We've also talked about problems of dogs running loose in parts and so on so forth, but I'm happy to put a specific agenda item on if you would like. I mean, >> I think those residents would appreciate that activity to be heard. >> Okay. >> So, let's do that. Um, the kinds of things I think we'd want to do in preparation for that is try to find some expert opinions about this what the impact of dogs on leashes are next to a nature park with nesting birds and so on. And >> you got to send my official. >> You you heard you heard from my bride who's an expert that didn't she was mad at me when I went home by the way. Put her on the spot. be good that yeah she was yeah she was receptive to the idea so let's put it on an agenda >> and we'll try to talk to some other nature type people >> maybe get the parks community involved in that where they brought that up in the report or not >> uh yes let's do that parks those heard Joel Bingham's cousin passed away on Tuesday morning part of West

and then we had a lot of public comments about crossing guards and safety. So maybe if we could reach out before school starts to see if they've equipped with everything that they might need or any hot spots that they might need special attention just to be ahead of time like a lot of people probably around about 3200. >> Real quick on that chair chat when's our when's our kickoff May with crops and guards? What do we usually do? >> August 12th. So that's you're welcome to join or Uh we had similar bad news with Gregory Shannon who served on the CPD board for many many years and is now representing nibly on the passion skew of district as pass. >> So we have a couple of cards. >> Yeah, we have cards for you guys to sign both both counts. Oddly enough, if you remember, uh, Mr. Darren Farre, who was our city engineer for a short time, his father passed away. So, sorry, we already sent that card, but if you wanted to reach out to him and just express that, I know he'd appreciate it. Also happens to be Kendall Welker, who was parks and is her uncle. So, >> yeah, that's the same person. Yeah. Right. Um, other than that, there's stuff going on with the fire board, but it's all confusing at this point, so I'll spare you the details. Um, there is a meeting coming up to talk about and I'll be representing you. So, I'm just going to put out some feelers to talk about allowing temporary rolloffs that are not waste management. Currently, that's prohibited according to their contract. Um but there are there are there are businesses that that do temporary rolloffs um and make money at that and that you know our our agreement with waste management to give them a monopoly for the rates we get from them cut into that. So, we're going to have a discussion about that uh with Waste Management. Sounds like fine, just tell them no, right? But the deal is Waste Management says they will consider that if they get an extension on their contract, which they're only two years into a 5-year contract as is. So, obviously, I will come back to you uh before I sign us up for anything, but change in rates for every city. >> They have rate changes built in targeted or are based on the consumer price investment. So they have inflationary rates already built into the contract. Uh my the thing that I would ask if we're going to give them an extension on contract at this point is that they do something about customer service that doesn't such tax on our taxing effort on our staff. Um, if there's other things that, you know, you think, this is why I'm bringing up, if if there's other things you think that, uh, if we're going to extend our contract that we would negotiate for, um, let me know and I'll do it again. Again, a final decision. I would not sign off on a change contract without cancers. That's it for me, Levi. >> You've heard enough from me. I'm good. >> You're very good. Just >> do. >> So, there's this certain flower that's starting to bloom. If you want to go take a look at it, I can help you to find it. >> Yeah. Will you give us a tour? >> I sure will. >> Do you want Do you want a council meeting to go trapesing out there? That probably violates our uh uh eman that we signed off on. >> Yeah, >> I probably find it on my own. Is it in bloom now? >> It is. Okay. >> Flags by blooming. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Oh, first of all, >> um council, I'll be uh quick and brief. As a reminder, the Utah League of Cities and Towns has their annual conference between the 1st and 2nd of October. Um, I believe Cheryl's already notified you of that. Um, I have already made hotel arrangements for all the council members. If you wouldn't mind being in contact with either me or Cheryl or um then we can make adjustments if if you're planning on going. And um another reminder, we do have our um summer party on August 11th and that will be uh starting at 6:00 p.m. Food will be ready immediately and it's at the Sportsman Paradise um venue there in Paradise. So any questions, please do. John, >> are you going to pay 30 bucks to fish there? I sign my kid up, but I might just watch. >> As long as he's catching fish, I'm not paying for. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm not paying. >> Uh Steve, do you have anything for us? >> All I got is just a special request that item uh 17 get moved to seven for our next council meeting. That great. 168. >> This is a round robin. Maybe >> 168. How about that? If you want to come back to me. 16. Go to eight. >> Is that you back there? >> Do you have anything? >> Evans. Evan's here, too. >> He was here. >> Evan, do you have anything? >> Yeah. You're the other guy. >> Yeah. It's her lead. We'll we'll do our best. >> Consider that. Anything else before the council tonight? If there's no objection, we will return. We are jer. Thank you for your work. Thanks for coming out all appreciate you.