Indoor Rec Study Update & Info Meeting 10-13-25

I guess I gotta use the mic. Oh, that sounds terrible. Speaking of the field out here, when we put tractors out there, rumor had it that we were building a swimming pool, and we weren't. We were just building a soccer soccer, field. And that's in part why we're having this meeting, just to make sure everyone's on the same page, we've all got the right information. I wanna start with a question, and the question is this, if the slides will advance. And they advance when we practice, but they're not advancing now. Five? Okay. So Kendall's gotta take care of some business here. Kendall Welker, I'm gonna hand the mic to you.

So I'm the president of the Nibley Park and Rec Committee, and we have five members here. So we gotta call a beating to order at 06:35, please. So write down something. And we have Jason Clark, Manny Labis, Sarah Anderson, Kendall Brent Welker, myself. Sorry. I almost said my maiden name. And Caitlin Madsen. That's all I need to do, and we're here.

Thank you, Kendall. Appreciate it. So the first question that I want to ask is, what is essential? Is human connection essential? Is belonging essential? Is feeling needed essential? I in gathering phone numbers and contact information to invite all of you to this meeting, I found on city websites, mentions of quality of life, small town feel. What is a small town? It's people that know each other. I I saw on campaign websites similar things, people connected in a space. Abraham Lincoln said the legit the legitimate object of government is to do for a community of people whatever they need to have done, but cannot do at all or cannot so well do for themselves in their separate and individual capacities. Our mayor, Larry Jacobson, quote something very similar from who's the gentleman that says something about the essential role of government?

That's a quote from David Church, I think. David Church. Role of government is to provide services to people that cannot easily provide Right.

There we go. So, anyway, the this is this is in part the idea that we'll be talking about today. So I get it as public officials, city councils, mayors. You have a lot of things that you're juggling in terms of what is essential. We we've gotta get water to home, sewer, public safety, law enforcement. We've all got parks to maintain. Some of us have recreation, and we'll highlight how that works in our valley. These are just some quick things. And by the way, I'm I'm going to cruise through some of these slides, and you'll have a chance to look at these later. I'll send these out to everyone. This meeting is recorded, so you can review it later. But I'll I'll just be highlighting a couple of things. But, clearly, recreation is a benefit to a community for a lot of reasons. These are some of them. I guess the question in my mind is this. What which court would you rather spend money on? And that's really kind of the question that we're looking at. And and I would submit to you that parks and recreation is a proactive way of keeping kids out of this situation with the judge and the attorney there. There we go. So this is what we're gonna talk about today. We're gonna just go through the history of the study. We'll go back a little bit to talk about how Nibley City arrived at this, and I think you'll get a sense of why Nibley City has so much urgency in in solving this situation. We'll talk about goals and objectives of the study, some survey findings. Some of you have already received those survey findings in, your city councils, those of you, that have received those. We'll talk about market analysis. This that's the new stuff. And we'll we'll explain what a special service district is briefly briefly, address some commonly asked questions, and we'll talk about where you can find more information. If you guys wouldn't mind just signing in there, just making sure you have your name on there. Thanks for coming. Anyone that's missed the the little sign in, if you wouldn't mind putting your name on there, that'd be great. Okay. So here's the history. These three cities started asking some questions. Nibley, initially, clear back in 2017 on our parks and recreation master plan, we said, community, what do you think about indoor recreation? 67% said, we think that's a great idea. In Nibley, our programs have exploded. I'll explain a little bit of that later. When I started in 2016, this is where we're at with baseball, softball, t ball. You can see where we've gone. If we added 2025, I think that we would exceed 3,000 in terms of participation. So, what what's happened in in my seat is not only are we getting folks from Nibley in our programs, but folks from all over the South End Of The Valley. And they're asking me, hey, Chad. What are we gonna do about recreation in the winter? April to October, for the most part, I can take care of them with flag football, soccer, baseball, softball, tee ball, etcetera. But when it comes to November through March, I really don't have a whole lot to offer them. And in some years, Bob knows this, we didn't start baseball until, what, late May one year because of the snowfall. So because of the extreme temperatures I remember one morning, look at my thermometer, and it was negative 26 in Wellsville. Not really a great time to be outside. So our community and our extended community has been asking, hey. Is there something that we could do for recreation beyond what we're already doing? So we said, well, you know, is there a space? Could we create something? Could we find something? Is there a way that we could offer recreation year round? And this is this is the assessment that we made initially. And I I wanna point out just a couple of things. You can explore this a little bit more on your own. The green stuff is where we borrow space. So in the case of Nibali, we actually use this very room. This morning, we had yoga classes. And at Mountain Peak volleyball, we have other group fitness classes. We use some volleyball there. Hiram City just started basketball, junior jazz basketball. They're utilizing, the high school, and the high school used to run that that program. You see that North Logan utilizes the, the Green Canyon gyms. The blue stuff is stuff that is indoor facilities that are in use and publicly owned. The black stuff is the stuff outside. As you can see, Cache County only offers senior services through their senior center. I thought that this might be interesting to look at. And I'm not putting this up to say, well, you know, these are the better, communities. It's just to get a sense of where people are going for recreation. So in, Nibley, a town of seven, eight thousand people, I think we might be approaching 9,000 now, but this is the 2020, census. We've got a significant number of people participating in our programs. It's not because it's just Nibley. It's because a lot of the folks from the surrounding communities are coming to us and the South End Of Of Logan. And so despite the fact that we don't have a recreation center, we have a lot of participation here, and that is changing. Our youth and a lot of your youth were going to the Logan Recreation Center, for basketball in particular. That's changed. I know Rob's can accommodate 40 teams, but they had a what was it called? The junior Mustangs basketball previously, and I don't know if he exceeds what they what they did. I guess we'll see. But regardless, losing the access that we used to have to Logan Rec Center is significantly impacting us for indoor. And and many of you know this, but I just wanna make sure that this point is clear, that we service a lot of the South End of the valley. We imagine Hiram will pick up a lot as well. But this is what's happening in the valley. So we we were approached by USU, and they said, we wanna do a wellness survey. And we said, well, tell us more about it. And they said, well, if you want, you can add a couple of questions. And at the time, our parks and recreation committee was exploring what's more important, athletic fields, Morgan Farm, or indoor rec. And so we said, yeah. We'd love to participate in this city. We're curious about the wellness of our our community. Do you mind if we add a couple of questions? So we did, and, this was the result. When we asked about indoor recreation, and it's changed a bit over the years, but somewhere around 80% of our community wants indoor recreation, which is nice. But when you ask a a city council about that, they say, well, how are we gonna pay for this thing? So we'll we'll get to that in a second. Hiram City recently participated in in the same survey, also asked the question about indoor recreation. This was the number that they got in terms of interest, and Wellsville City was was similar. So and I would I would submit to you that based on the the participants that we interact with, regardless of what city we're looking at on the South End of town, it it is going to vary some, but they're likely going to want indoor recreation. But the biggest question is, will they pay for it? In Nibley, this is where it comes in. Obviously, it's it's more than half. I would submit to you the folks that are neutral in conversations that we've had. They wanna know, well, if we have indoor rec, does it have what I want in it? If it does, I'm in. If it doesn't, I'm out. And so this is this is what we found over the years in Nibley. And in the case of Hiram, these were the numbers that they were seeing. In the case of Wellsville, it's very different. They want the facility, but the support financially may or may not be there based on this particular survey. And and we could go into the numbers in those surveyed, and we're not gonna spend a lot of time on that. The other interesting thing that came out of that well-being survey was that folks are concerned about recreation, more than half of them. And it's interesting how people feel in terms of their personal well-being and community well-being. And we won't spend a lot of time on this, but you can digest that later. The other really interesting thing is this. Even though we offer pretty robust offerings in terms of recreation, especially youth sports, 76% of our community is leaving the community to to go do something else in terms of recreation. I'd submit some of that as outdoor recreation, you know, skiing, snowmobiling, hiking, and so forth. What was interesting is at the time, and this was in 2024, only half of those in Logan were leaving, and and they had access to a facility at that time. They still have some access, by the way. Folks in Hiram leaving. Wellsville leaving. So a lot of our communities are leaving town to participate in recreation. So we said, well, maybe we should get a little bit more serious about this. We did a update to our parks and recreation master plan. We said, what about indoor recreation? We get this again, 80%. And we said, okay. 80 of you want it, but what do you wanna see in that? This these were the results. People very interested in aquatics, and and you see the numbers there. The so we we decided, well, we're we better get serious about figuring out indoor recreation, and let's do a study. And and every self respecting city does what's called a request for proposals. So we put that out there, and we put the numbers that we were finding. We received I think it was eight different proposals. And these were what we were asking for. We wanted answers to these because we don't wanna jump into something that's gonna fail. We don't wanna jump into something that we can't afford that's not sustainable. So in the end, we hired VCBO. They have some sub consultants, Ballard and King and and so forth. These are the guys that look at the real numbers that do the studies. They do this for a living. They're professionals, and they've done it for dozens of communities. So this is really where we're we were at at the time. So goals and objectives of of this whole study were, number one, to make sure that we've truly got interest. Like, we've done some some research, but is is the this really accurate? And let's kind of refine that interest. The other is, are you really willing to pay for it, residents? And then the biggest one is, how do you scale this? How do you figure out what size if you are gonna build something? And then you've got site selection. What does it cost cost to operate? How do you fund it? Ultimately, our goal is to put this in the hands of the voters and say, it's up to you. This is what we figured out. Now it's your decision. If if you want this thing, this is what it costs, and that's what you would have to pay. So that's essentially our goals with the study. And so now we get to the survey results. Survey says some of you are old enough to know this guy from Family Feud. He owns. Yeah. Yeah. Boy, that yeah. The original. That's that's the good one. So survey findings. I'm going to cruise through this. Again, you can review this a little bit more at your own leisure, and and I'll make all of this available to all of you as well. But I'm just gonna highlight a couple of things in the survey results because I know some of you have received this already. And, again, this comes from BCBO. This, by the way, is the South Valley study, so we're essentially River Heights, Providence, Nibley South is the focus in this particular study. So, Valley Of Recreation, by the way, this is the same. And and I'll mention this. Later on, the county decided, let's also do a study. And that study, for the most part, focuses on Logan North. But they do we'll talk about how that works in the market analysis and how they kinda blend there. Next slide is current facility use. This the question is, where do you go right now for recreation? We thought that we would see a lot more private fitness, but we didn't. And, you see where people are going. It is exciting to see that people are going to public spaces. They're utilizing our facilities. The other interesting thing was this, is when it came to this particular question, those that were not in favor of a recreation center wanted to make it clear in this other box that they were not interested in paying taxes towards a recreation center. That accounted for about 7.6% of those surveyed in this this particular survey. But when when they when we were when they were asked about what services or programs do you need, that's they they wanted to make it clear in that particular box. These are just activities ranked. And and by the way, as we reported to different cities, sometimes that that ranking changed a little bit here and there. But those those were the priorities that were discovered in that survey. When it comes to aquatics, these also varied by community, but people very interested in aquatics. When it comes to the type of the pool, VCBO reported we learned from the question if you ask if you want one or the other or both, they always say both, but very much a lot of interest in indoor recreation. This is probably even more critical, especially for me. I wouldn't want a facility built and have no one show up. And based on this survey, a significant number would show up weekly, and several, would show up several times a month. So a facility would very likely get used, and a lot of response on that. So this this is about community space, you know, gathering spaces, you know, what might be, most appropriate. And then frequency of use, this this is just going back to that same question, what that might look like. So in terms of taxes, this is the most important question. How are you willing to pay for this thing? And if so, how much? So we found that the households were willing to pay about 15 a month. That'd be 180 a year if I do my math right. And depending on how you look at this, roughly $70.71 percent are in the yes category. Based on conversations that we've had in community outreach at, you know, heritage days and founders days booth. And when we talk to people, these might or might not people, again, are the ones that that wanna know, is there a track in that facility? Is there a pool in that facility? If there is, I'm in. If there isn't, I'm out. In terms of proximity, this was a discovery in our study, and it was in in the counties as well. People want it in their backyard. They want it very close, within ten to fifteen minutes. And we'll we'll talk about the what, VCBO did in terms of their research on that a little bit later. So, that a little bit later. So, not gonna spend a lot of time on this, but you can you can review this on your own. But these were just some other findings in the comments of the survey, and VCBO reported that there were more comments at the end of the survey than they normally get. People just wanted to really express their thoughts in in terms of indoor recreation. So we'll just, click through these. A lot of support for aquatics and adult sports, youth sports, etcetera. So that concludes the survey findings. We're gonna jump into a couple of other topics. I forgot to get the snacks and drinks out. Justin, would you mind grabbing those? I was gonna put them on the end of that table. They're just in the fridge. Jason's got you. Jason knows how to do this. He's got it. The ice is in the cooler. We might just take a break because, yeah, there's a lot of material. Location. Yeah. We'll answer that in part. That's a part of the study. That's a very good question. So we're gonna talk about the market analysis. So this is the new stuff that those that have already seen the survey results may not have seen. So the question is, why would you do a market analysis? If you were a business person and you wanted to run a business, you'd wanna see what's out there already. Is this thing viable? And and we, like a business, feel like it's very important to figure out if we put up a facility, would we be duplicating services? Would would there be gaps that need to be filled? Like, what does this look like? The other the other important thing is just looking at equity. Who would have access to this? How far would it be? And and so forth. So market analysis is something that that is asked, and and this gentleman asked about site selection. And and this market analysis kind of points to that a bit. So this is coming again from BCBO. I've blended some of the data from the South Valley study as well as the county study, and I'll try to highlight that. So the county study version is going to have the county logo at the top. That's how you know that it's coming from the county study. So in our particular study, we looked initially at let's just look at Nibley City. That's the green stuff. And then the red boundary is the south end of the valley. If we were to service the South end like we we are with many of our youth programs, what would that look like? And one thing of note is if we look at the the entire this is a Cache County study, by the way. If we look at the entire county, Logan is definitely a significant portion of that, close to 40%, But if you look at the north, the middle, and the South, we can be divided in in roughly thirds. And and that will lend to an idea that VCBO presented a a little bit later here. So if we're looking at the South End Of The Valley, there's a couple of interesting things. One, our median household income is is healthy. We've got a lot of educated people on the South End Of The Valley. And average household size in this we'll get into this a little bit more, is pretty high compared to Utah and it definitely compared to The US. So this is a breakdown of population, the the demographics there. Nibley, a lot of a lot of youth in Nibley, but on the South End Of The Valley, a significant number of youth. Generally speaking, a community with a lot of youth is very interested in a a recreation space, but I'm gonna share later that it's it's important beyond just those families. Medium household income, higher than than the state and the national. So these are all things that are pointing to this could be supported, and it could be a good idea. I'm not gonna get into this a lot, but they did an evaluation of different, you know, types of programs and activities and what the availability of the population would be to participate in those. And and that helps in kind of creating spaces that would accommodate that. In terms of facilities, so this is something that we needed help with, and and and we already know where most of the indoor recreation facilities are at. But they took a little bit deeper dive. And in terms of private fitness, there's a lot of, you know, health health and fitness, like lifting weights and aerobics and group fitness classes offered by the private sector. They noted the the public and and nonprofit spaces included the Handsome Family Sports Complex, which is an interesting scenario. It's actually a public private partnership between the Handsome Family and North Logan. And they looked at pools as well. And and they also looked at the distribution. We have very little on the South End Of The valley and a lot on the North End Of The Valley. So in summary, there was demonstrated interest in recreation spending. The demographic seemed to support the creation of a recreation center. And the South Valley, there's a lack of facilities, and it's a growing community. So they looked at okay. We've got the survey on this side. We've got the markets and and the area that you're trying to serve. Where where do things match up? And, the market is saying, hey. Let we'll just start at the top. The walking track, you've got a market recommendation that this is probably a good idea. There's a desire for it, and there's nobody else that has a walking track in your facility. Elite Hall does have some walking. Rob and I were in that, facility the other day, and there's some walking that happens there, but not enough to fully service this this area. So the other thing that Ballard and King looked at is how many square feet per capita is appropriate to support a facility. You look at Nibley, and if you had a facility of about 16,000 square feet, that might support the community. On the South end of the valley, that's a suggested square footage for a facility and and so on there. So this is the Cache County market analysis, and they they discovered the same thing that we already knew that people wanna be within fifteen minutes of a facility. So they took the Hanson Family Sports Complex, and they said, okay. If we put a pin in the map, how long does it take to get to this this facility? I would submit to you. It depends on the time of day. Definitely depends on the time. I was up near the Logan Hospital and trying to get to Nibley. It took me more than a half hour, almost forty five minutes. And so but this is roughly how far you could reach if this was the the place. They took a fifteen minute drive time from Nibley, and we get to South End Of Logan, and we can reach most of the South End of of the valley. So that was an interesting element of the Cache County market analysis, which kinda blended with some of our findings. So level of service and I might ask for a little bit of help on this if if you remember Justin and Mary Jacobson. So NRPA, which is the National Recreation and Parks Association, does surveys of recreation agencies throughout The The US, and they look at service of a certain population and the available square footage for that community. So these are recommendations based on that. They also looked at Smithfield, Rec Center, the Logan Community Rec Center that has very limited access and, looked at, you know, how do we recommend number of facilities and and how to service these communities, and and this is what they came up with. Is there anything that you would add to that, Justin or or Larry, about that? K. The other level of service element is looking at one to two square feet per capita is a good kind of standard to work towards. And and, again, we're going back to the idea of scale. How if you build a facility, how big would it be? Would it be a single basketball court or three or four? And so they they actually use data for this one. They said, okay. Let's just talk about Utah. If we look at some their square footage. And by the way, they've they've touched BCBO put together the Provo Rec Center, the South Davis Rec Center, and and they looked at the the population and the square available square footage for those communities in terms of recommendation there. So in summary, the population size in Cache Valley is adequate to support multiple facilities according to VCBO, Ballard and King. Median age, Median age, there's definitely interest in in wellness. Household income supports it. There's a strong market potential, and there's a definite lack of courts and definite lack of leisure aquatics. We do have some pools in the valley that that there's access to, but not leisure aquatics or recreation aquatics. Countywide study, I'll let you read the top ones, but the majority of the respondents want something within ten to fifteen minutes. And then in terms of their recommendations, at least right now, they're suggesting two recreation centers minimum to support the county, one leisure pool, six courts, and an indoor track. That's that's where we're getting from the blend of the data that we've, offered and collected and the county study and, what the evaluation from VCBO is. So this this breaks it down a little bit more in terms of courts, but the the main point of this slide is this, that if you were to build a facility, this to service your community, this would be the minimum in suggestion of of what you wanna put together. So the next couple of slides, we're gonna dive into something that that gets very interesting in terms of distribution, site selection, and, you know, where a facility might land. And And at this point, I'll say this. We'll put some slides up, but you're you're not gonna be able to look at, okay, what's the address of that? This is just general idea, general space where, something might make sense and something to think about. It's all theoretical at this point. Yes. I'm gonna hand the mic to you. And if you could say your name, that'd be great. And I know your name is Michael. So

Michael Nelson, Hiram City Council. A year ago, Logan City had a rec center, and I think that's somewhat been I won't say dissolved, but there was a partnership with the school in the county or maybe oh, City City. Sorry. And that's kind of been done away with. Correct? Yeah. Can you share that? And what I wanna ask as a question is when we look at two facilities, is Logan wanting to or is there something to drive Logan to be a part of one of those two facilities?

I don't know if I could speak for Logan or express anything there. We we haven't had a lot of, conversations with Logan regarding that. I I can confirm that access to the Logan Recreation Center is very different now as of July 1. So, previously, my understanding is it was, an agreement between Logan School District, Logan City, and, Logan School District wants full access to the facility. Logan City negotiated limited access to the facility. I believe they have Saturdays and some evenings for the community. How has that impacted us? The junior jazz program that they ran is only available to Logan residents, and in addition to that, because of access to courts and so forth, they decided to kind of diversify a little bit, and they're doing some floor hockey in replacement of some of their basketball. So does that answer your question? We could probably dive deeper into that. Yeah. That's so his question, just so it's recorded and and online is and make sure that I've got this right is, do we know if Logan wants to be a part of a county, or are they comfortable with their current arrangement? The the simple answer to that is I don't know. And and we've had some conversations. I've I've proposed a question I've asked. That that is that is a very good question. Yeah. Quite frankly, the in in one meeting I was in, it was described as the elephant in the room, so, if if that helps you at all. So these, again, are some suggestions or or things to think about or ideas, but right now, one approach would be every city is, you know, every man for himself. We all try to figure out how to address indoor recreation independently, and there's some advantages and disadvantages to that. But in reality, we wouldn't really fully service even our own community. So there's a lot of value in collaboration, and and you can read some of the other points there. The other option is a single facility. And, of course, every community would want that facility in their backyard. VCBO said one thing to consider is there's kind of a a grouping of facilities in North Logan. You've got the ice rink. You have the Handsome Family Sports Complex. Maybe it makes sense to put a large facility there, and you share there's a way to work out some savings with utility cost between an ice rink and a pool in terms of heating and cooling. So that's an idea to consider. The folks on the South End Of The Valley would have some response to that, but it's it's an option or a possibility. Another possibility is splitting the valley in half, basically, bisecting the the valley and saying, okay. Logan residents, half of you go north, half of you go south, and that's how we're gonna service folks for indoor recreation. So that's a a second idea. The third is this, that there would be a a new facility on the South End, a new facility on the North End, and a new facility in the middle somewhere in and around Logan. And there's obviously some advantages and disadvantages to that and some things to consider for for all of these communities. So that that is the latest and greatest in terms of just evaluating what might happen. According to VCBO, Ballard and King, our communities would support this financially if there were three, but one one consideration is this. If there was one, it would be much bigger. If there were three, it's likely that they would be smaller, at least initially. And and we've always talked about if we were to do a rec center, it might be wise to kind of phase this and and build things together, like, over time. So, again, you've got option one, single facility. Option two would be split the valley. Option three would be three new facilities. And by the way, all of this would take a significant amount of time regardless of the option there. So that that kind of concludes the market analysis. I think we could probably address a few questions here. And and by the way, as we do questions, I can have Caitlin help me in moving the mic around, if you don't mind. Do we have a second mic? Is that we'll grab a second mic. Caitlin, if you wanna just raise your hand, Caitlin will take the mic to you. And again, this is not a candidate debate. This is more just, you know, delivering information, exploring questions, and and so forth. And go ahead and state your name.

Benjamin Benjamin Chandler. So do we know of the a few good spots in Italy where it could be?

Great question. Thank you. So, before we well, Anibley has identified some spaces that could could be suitable for a recreation space. But we realized that, really, to offer something to our community that's gonna work, we're gonna have to cooperate. So we're willing to explore other sites collaboratively. I I think that represents what we've been talking about. But on a master plan, there is a spot on on one particular part concept. It's a concept. It's not a plan. It does it really doesn't mean that's what we're going to build. But on a concept, we have a spot that that could be suitable that we've considered other sites.

What do you know what that spot what where is that spot?

Thank you. And by the way, what what community are you from? Providence. From Providence. So we we have a spot that's south of town. It's kinda between Hiram and Wellsville and Nibley, sort of in the middle of just that direction that that could be suitable. It's a large piece of land. We've looked at other spots in and around Nibley that could be suitable, but we're we're willing to explore. And Visio, part of their contract is to explore sites, to look at different sites.

Can we go back to the three options that were presented to the county. This will eventually go to the county council. I for me, it's the yellow lines are more important than the blue dots, even though the blue dots show us what is going to be possibly where. But the yellow lines are important because option one is if the county decided to take on recreation as a county political entity, Option one is likely what would happen if the county did that based on where facilities are located and, how you add on to those facilities, so on and so forth. But you see, that's looking at Cache County as an entire political entity that said the county was gonna start doing recreation. K? There's another option in the middle. That's option two. And the yellow line is important because that creates two new political entities, two new special service districts created not by Nibley or not by Wellsville or not by Hiram or not by anyone else, but creates a special service district, a new political entity in the south part of the county, and another new political entity in the northern part of the county. Now that political entity would have its own board of directors. It's not a Nibley program. That entity would hire staff and say, etcetera, etcetera. The third one, it creates three different special service districts. And that answers or at least attempts to show an option of that you asked, does Logan really wanna split, or does Logan wanna do their own thing? And I can't answer that on behalf of Logan. I'm I'm Larry Jacobson, by the way. I'm pretty sure from being in the county steering committee, Logan and Logan really started an impetus to say, look. We need to do something to replace the access that we lost at the existing rec center. And by the way, there was nothing nefarious about the dissolution of that agreement between Logan City and Logan School District. There was a thirty year contract that had run its course. And, you know, at the end of it, Logan School District said we've got all these extra programs we need to run for our students. We have boys volleyball and girls wrestling, so on and so forth. We just need the space. And the the the agreement to share that space just ended. Right? Nobody backed out of anything. Nobody did anything bad to anybody. It just ended because Logan's school district said we need the space. So I am confident that it's been said in enough meetings. In fact, part of this whole countywide effort was started from impetus within Logan. So I I know there are people there are people in Logan that that say we need indoor rec space. Now how they achieve that is probably you know, what's best for Logan is probably the same question we're all asking ourselves for our own cities, what's best for our own cities. So I I think those three options are interesting to look at because it goes all the way from the county will just take care of this, and we have to see what the, you know, the county's gonna do what the county's gonna do all the way to creating three new political entities that would have and we can talk about the political process to create these special service districts, but it's a long process. And in order to create a special service district that has taxing power, that's a vote of the citizens in the special service district. In order to borrow money within that special service district against the faith and credit of the residents within that special service district, that's another vote of the citizens. So that's a key in Chad's slide that a political this is gonna be an an action of direct democracy to get two or three special service districts off the ground.

Go ahead and say your name and the community that you live in and then your question, if you wouldn't mind. Mariah Smith, and I'm from Nibley.

What how will we decide between like, what will the next step be to further option two or option three? Because when we put this up for a vote, we don't wanna say we don't want the vote to be option two or option three. We wants to be we're voting for one of these options.

That's a great question. In fact, it goes right along with three questions get asked over and over and over about indoor recreation. Where is it? What's it gonna be? And how much is it gonna cost? Okay? We could decide for ourselves in Nibley City how all three of those questions if we were just serving Nibley City. Hiram City could do the same thing. They could decide if we're serving Hiram, here's where it'll be. Here's how much it's gonna cost, and here's what's going to be in it. The same for Wellsville. The thing about a special service district in creating such a thing is you recognize that there's an economy of scale, that if communities get together and build something together, then it could be it would be bigger and more attractive. So right now, the big question to answer those three is to find out who's interested in being in the Special Service District. Now that can be a decision of the city councils. Okay? And I can talk to you about the public hearings and the public protest periods and all the other stuff. But the city councils can decide to opt in to the Special Service District. Once you know how many people are interested in being that Special Service District, then a very specific proposal needs to be generated by that brand new special service district to say, we need taxing authority. And so we're asking the citizens for taxing authority to build this thing with these amenities in this location for this amount of money. And the citizens vote, the residents of the special service decree is a yes or it's a no. And it's all for one and one for all. Right? So the proposal isn't, do you like option two or option three? And the proposal isn't, do you want a pool, or do you want three basketball courts? The proposal has to be very specific to the voters so they know what their what what they're willing to tax themselves for and where it'll be and what amenities are in there and how much would those taxes be. And so that's the first photo of the citizens in a referendum to give this new board of directors in a service district taxation power. And then, of course, this is a brand new district. They don't have any money. So now you have to borrow money to build stuff. And so there's another referendum to the voters, to say, do you wanna do you wanna bond for this and pay it back with time? So it's a great question. Nothing works when you just hand voters a blank slate. It has to be very black and white. And, you know, it's not it doesn't help to try to pull people into a district if they really don't wanna be in it because that'll sway the vote, and the whole district will fail. Right?

It looks like we have a question. Yeah. And while that's going back, I'll just explain it simply. It's almost like organizing a family reunion. You've got somebody that lives in Oklahoma, Colorado, Texas, and Utah. Where are we going to meet? Who's gonna be there? What do we, what are we gonna have to eat? So you have to decide who's in before you plan this whole thing, the this family reunion or dinner or whatever the case may be.

Shelley? Yes. Shelley Giddings. I live in River Heights. First of all, the last thing we need is another taxing entity. We've got the school district, you've got your city, you've got the state, like the county. So I think it's important to express the fact that recreation centers in Utah always operate in the red except for Provo. Provo is the only one that doesn't. So what happens when this rec center is operating in the red?

Who's paying for that? Yeah. That's a great question. So, and and Shelley brings up a great point. Really, it's up to that community what they wanna pay for. I I actually I started my recreation career in Provo City. I know how they operate. I've been a part of that organization. Really, it's a choice of that community. Do you want to subsidize recreation? Do you feel like health and wellness is important enough that you pay taxes towards that? Or do you want to run this like a business like Provo does? And and I'll give you a couple of other examples. The a couple of the considerations for that is if you run it like a business, you've gotta make a profit or break even. The pricing may preclude participation for some, And that's a decision that you have to make. Where where do you wanna land in terms of recreation? So, and and that's that's a simple answer to that. The other there's two other communities that I'd encourage you to look at. One is, my friend in Blanding. I was the recreation director in Moab. He said, I run our recreation department like a business. It's gotta break even or or or create revenue. They've got a small little facility in a tiny community. So their decision in blending is this is how we're going to operate. We could talk about Nephi City. They recently their theirs is a little bit different because they have a public public partnership with the school district. But they have basketball, volleyball, pickleball courts with turf in the middle. They do wrestling, volleyball, and I believe basketball tournaments there. I spoke to Yeah. Rob's familiar with that end of the world. And, he worked for Nephi City. And in Nephi, they run I don't remember off the top of my head, but I think it's like five or six wrestling tournaments. Three of those wrestling tournaments pay for the operation of the facility, the annual operation. So it depends on how you want to do this. But for those six, weekends, the community doesn't have access. So you're gonna have to weigh, okay, where do we wanna spend our dollars? Who do we wanna give access to? How do we wanna subsidize? If we looked at, our Nibley City Youth sports programs, I can tell you right now, our, our, girls softball is subsidized. We've gotta pay a lot for equipment. We've gotta get officials out there on the field. We charge $35 per participant. It doesn't cover the cost, but it's important enough for us to have these girls on the field, building friendships, being a part of a community. So that's how we operate. If you look at our ultimate Frisbee, it's it's completely the opposite. It it's like a excuse me, dollars 11 for a Frisbee. And we've got 200 kids in the program. They spend only $35 but our costs are very low. Participation's high. So it it's really a decision of the community. Where do you wanna put your emphasis? Where do you wanna put your dollars?

It's like,

oh, yeah. We've got lots of hands. Go ahead. Where I have the mic, is that okay? Yeah.

These maps right there, as I looked at them and I kind of a person that does a lot of analysis, and I'm like, almost half of this map is unpopulated. If you look at it I mean, the the east side is mountains and the west side is mountains, and we have a narrow corridor there. I I I don't know that it's gonna make a big difference, but when you say, okay. How far are we willing to drive and where is this? I mean, the the map, if you look at Cache County, it's a pretty large county. But if you get rid of all the mountains and places that we can't build and don't live, it's a little smaller, and it makes it a a little different as far as driving and and may I don't think it's gonna make it different how you split it, but I do think if the maps were just a little bit updated to say, hey. We don't include the Cache National Forest and the Wellsvilles and some of that. It we'd have a a little narrower diagram that might just sort of see the picture a little better.

Yeah. Yeah. You bring up a good point. I know that VCBO is just looking at the population centers within those areas. So obviously very few living on the top of Wellsville, Cone. But, yeah, that's certainly a consideration. I would say this about Cache County. A lot of the population centers are, you know, down the middle, like you've, like you've mentioned, but there's certainly people live out in Young Ward and College Ward. And part of the price that they play for participation is they hop in a car and they drive. And and we have kids from Young Ward, College Ward, Beaver Dam in in our flag football program that was just out here on the field today. But yeah. So certainly something for consideration. I think there are a few more hands.

Yeah. Kelly Nelson from Wellsville, and I appreciate the information that you shared earlier that answered a lot of my questions that I had. So now my goal is going to be in Wellsville to lobby for, lobby against. My concerns are my wife and I recently retired a couple years ago. I am not in favor of supporting this through property tax because of what's happened over the last five to six years with property tax. I agree people have the right to recreate. It should not be and I look at this and it shocks me in Wellsville, a 177 survey respondents were in favor of this, which in reality could impose a property tax increase on the rest of Wellsville. And that's where my gripe is with paying for this. Now the other I have a question. So say this does pass, the property taxes go up, we get the money to do this. The residents and the people using this facility will still have to pay a fee or pay a membership to use this. Correct? And that's the other thing. So Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. So generally speaking, a general obligation bond puts a building up. It creates the facility, and the ongoing operation of that facility is paid for with membership fees, daily entry programs, etcetera. So that yeah. To be clear, that's exactly how that works. One thing to think about is once that building is built, you have a a tangible asset for that entity that generally speaking, buildings appreciate in value. So that's that's a consideration. But, yeah, to be very clear, the the tax puts it together. I mean, if you well, I think schools are a little bit different, and and I'm not gonna pretend to know everything about schools. But generally, a bond will create a school, like the school that that is being built down the street. I don't know how they pay for their teachers, honestly. I think they get some money from the state. I'm sure we're all paying for it. To your point, one thing that I wanna express about a community recreation center. If it is truly a community recreation center, it does not only service young families. It should service from babies to to grandmas. And and that was my experience in in Provo City. We would open the doors. Oh, I don't remember. 05:30, 06:00. Flood of people would come in. A lot of it was ladies there to do their group fitness classes, and we would have a a group of seniors that would do laps around the the, the elevated track, and they go to water aerobics. And they'd spend a good part of the day in the senior center side of that facility. And then about this time and I well, before that, about 04:00, they'd head home because they don't wanna be out after dark. That's when the rest of the community came into the facility. So if you build the right community center, it should service the entire community. And and that would be our objective. It wouldn't be just to serve Olympic athletes. We're that's not what we're all about. We're not we're not building that. We're trying to build community. I know there's another question or two, and then I do wanna get back to some of these slides because I don't wanna be here all night, but go ahead. Okay. Mariah Smith from Nibley.

Is a public private partnership an option to raise more funds and lower the tax burden for those not interested in, you know, who aren't you don't wanna pay the extra taxes. So is that private public partnership an option?

Absolutely. And that's precisely where Logan's at. The Handsome family approached and at the time it was RSL, I believe, approached North Logan and said, we wanna put together a soccer facility. You have land. We have money to build it. I know in conversations we've had in Nibley and on our parks and recreation committee with city council, we are in favor of exploring that. It's gotta be a win for the community. Generally speaking, it looks like this. So community owns the land, a private business or club or organization wants to put up a building. In exchange for use of that land, the community gets a percentage of use in that facility. That's just in general, how a public private partnership might work. And that's a great way to offer a facility, but you have to realize that private owner is going to have a say in that facility. And so you have to decide who do we want to have in the driver's seat. In my personal view, and and this is just me, I could see a community facility next to or across the parking lot or potentially even connected to a public private partnership, and I see both benefiting tremendously. Does that answer that? Yeah. If you wanna let's wait for the mic and yeah.

Mic Go ahead, Nick. Nick Henska, Nible City. Chad, and thank you for your comment in the back about the funding for and and and it's true with these rec centers through our state. Generally, they're in the red and make it difficult even to break even. But, Chad, in your research, I'm curious. Of all the rec centers that are barely breaking even or in the red, how many of those have aquatics tied to them versus not? Do you know? Yeah. And that's a good question. So Provo City has probably one of the most robust

aquatics offerings in the state. They have I think they claim to have five pools. Some of them are connected, all have different purposes. One of them is outdoor and they're not in the red. So, aquatics can be done, but it's a challenge. If if we were to explore aquatics, I would wanna sit down with Provo and say, how do you how do you guys do this? How do you run it? And let's let's look look at the demographics. Is this gonna work? That's a very good question. There's two things that are very expensive with recreation centers in general. Two, two amenities that are kind of higher dollar, both to build and to run. One is aquatics. The other is an ice rink. And, and to be real and, and fair and frank with you, that we would we would take a very hard look at either of those if that's the direction that we're gonna go with a recreation center. It's it's gotta make sense. It's gotta add up.

Yeah. So my quest What's your name? Is Laurie Bragg Laurie Bragg and I live in Nibley. I'm I was gonna ask similar to what Mariah asked. Has has anyone looked at something like the YMCA or partnerships with getting sponsors maybe from businesses of there's a ton of businesses all around here, and they seem to be fairly lucrative that seem like maybe they would I don't I don't know. But maybe give some money into putting, you know, putting something like this up if there was multiple businesses that wanted to do that. I was just wondering if any of those avenues have been looked at and also grants.

Yeah. That's a good question. And I think this might be a good time to go towards a few of the slides because we're getting to some questions that I'll I'll put up on the screen. I'll speak to YMCA and, Boys and Girls Club and and similar. So I I go to some national trainings, from time to time, and I speak with my colleagues that have a community recreation center and in the same community, there's a YMCA or a Boys and Girls Club. Often, those YMCAs are receiving, grant funding, federal funding to service low income households, for youth programs. We'd have to explore, does that fit our demographic? Would we qualify for something like that? It's certainly something that could, would, or maybe should be explored. Could we partner with an organization like that? But, again, you have to ask the question, who do we want in the driver's seat in terms of the offerings of our programs, the creation of our program, and and what's available? In some communities, it's both. You've got a a city recreation offering, and you've got a boys and girls club or a YMCA. So so that answers that. I wanted to jump into a little bit of the funding, and I know that's a slide here. So we'll we'll go forward a little bit, and then we'll address maybe a few questions at the very end. I don't wanna keep you here all night, but this is clearly a very interesting topic that that not only you're exploring, but a lot of, the community is exploring as well. So, special services here. I feel like, mayor mayor, Larry Jacobson addresses very well. You simply take a look at a map. You draw some lines and say you're in the district or you're out. If you're in, you would pay more on your property tax in the case of a general obligation bond to fund a facility. And as he said, it would be a separate government entity. It wouldn't be a Nibley City or Hiram City or Wellsville City. It would be a separate entity that would, do that. And and again, as he expressed, that entity cannot be created without a vote of the community, and they cannot get funding without a vote. So it's really up to the residents, up to the community, up to the citizens if they want an an entity like that. I will say if we look at, addressing recreation needs beyond Utah, Utah is unique in some ways, a lot of a lot of states utilize a district method to address recreation. It's not uncommon to do a district. There are a few districts in, in Utah. One is the South Davis District. They have a facility there. There's an Ochre District. There's a Snyderville Basin in Park City. We could look at how they operate, what they do. But just in a nutshell, I think we have a sense of what a special service district is. But again, it's the choice of the citizens to create that or not create it for that matter. So in terms of funding, generally speaking, if you're creating an a recreation center, you're talking about millions of dollars. And and that's the thing that you have to consider. Now there are some other things that can supplement the funding. So generally speaking, recreation centers are built on the back of a general obligation bond. And I I think you described what that bond is. It's basically a loan on the property tax that is paid, to to an entity. The other thing we've talked about this already is user fees. Those generally support, operations of his of a facility. Capital projects funds could potentially support that. But if we looked at the coffers of most of our cities here, we don't have a lot in the capital projects to put towards a facility. We may have some, to support that. Naming rights and sponsorships, that has been mentioned. I've attended, seminars and conferences where, the people presenting their professionals and they they're hired out to to do naming rights. If if we went to the Provo Rec Center, their natatorium, where they have their aquatics, I believe, is sponsored by Zions. If we went to the ARC up on campus at USU, I believe the sponsor spends $10,000 a year to have a logo on the, the court. So generally speaking, those support operations, but if you landed a big deal, it could support a a little bit more than that. We've already talked about public private partnerships that's not listed here, but that that could be a tremendous support for indoor recreation and and a great possibility. I will say we've been approached by several people that would like to partner, explore that, and and I see some real possibilities there. Some real possibilities. Grants are certainly, you know, something that could or should be explored. Endowments are different. So if you there was a very wealthy person that wanted, to, have an advantage in terms of of their taxes, you have a five zero one c three, an endowment, they pay into that, that helps them on their taxes. That money stays in an account, and the interest pays for the the, the recreation. Generally speaking, that supports operation. So to be to be clear, for the most part, buildings are built with the obligation bond, and then the operational costs and ongoing costs are are generally paid, as I've described here. Does that answer your question more fully? Okay. And there may be others that we haven't talked about, but these are probably the most common.

We talked about public public. Right.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. So that's another possibility. Another possibility is this. Let's say the Cache County School District wants they don't wanna build a pool, but they want their students to have access to a pool, and so they pay on the order of tens of thousands for access to that pool from this time to this time. And and that's that's probably more common than not in Utah in terms of access to pools for high schools. So that's yeah. There there's another scenario. And and that's something that we have explored a bit, and we would definitely explore further, especially in the case of aquatics, if it seems to make sense. K. Let's look at a couple of other slides here. So so really, what what I want you to think about here we've talked about a lot of things. We've talked about numbers. We've talked about process and avenues and and possibilities, survey data. But the real question is why do we have parks? Why why do we get together as a community every year at a city celebration? Why do we have youth programs? What is the purpose of that? Why do we even do it? Why do we put resources towards that? How essential is that human connection? How essential is that belonging? How essential is feeling needed? I would submit this. My academic background is actually very different than most of my colleagues. I studied psychology. I know that if you are not connected, you don't make good decisions. People, get into addictions. They make terrible choices. We've seen some of those play out in recent news, here in our our even our local area. There was a shooting down in in, Ben Lohman High School. If people aren't connected, they are not healthy, mentally and even physically. And that's really the reason why parks and recreation is important. And we have a particular challenge in in in Cache Valley in terms of offering that year round. I've had conversations with school counselors at the high school and they well, even on the elementary level, and they say, winter is by far the hardest time for our students. If there was anything that could change that, we'd love to see it. I I'd like to explore that. So I believe that that wraps it up. And and except for this, where can you get more information? We'll do our best to keep everyone, up to date on on how things are going, what the process is, what we're finding. We appreciate you being here today and and exploring this question, these topics. We're doing our best to keep this particular website updated with the information that we, are receiving from BPO, Ballard and King, and and our findings. And it's reccenterstudy.info. We recently updated Millville, and I know I updated some things for Providence. And we presented to a number of city councils. I'll get some of those uploaded to that website, and we'll try to keep your praise through that tool as much as possible. We may have other meetings where where we give some additional updates just depending on how things go. But I'd invite you to explore that. I will send out these slides for you to dive a little bit deeper. We're happy to be a resource. Our our objective today was try to to try to give everyone the same information efficiently. In the case, by the way, if you're a candidate for office, if you ask me a question, I'm happy to answer that, and I will answer that. But I'm also obligated to share that with the other candidates that are running for your office, and I will do that. So we'll keep your praise as as that moves forward. So I think that that is it. There are a couple of other slides that, were just some additional information that I don't think we need to dive into, but I think we can address a few more questions and then be on our way. Any any pressing questions? I think Justin wants to make a point.

Just really quickly, I feel like it might be important to just hit on the the creation of the district. There's multiple ways to create that district, and I I don't I don't know if mayor, if you wanna take a second, kind of explain what we've done and why we've done it. Yeah. I think that's important. Yeah. But just so that it doesn't bring up more con any more confusion. I don't

Yeah. And and I'll I'll I'll say this. He may be talking about horses here as well. Hopefully, that keys you up.

So this is this is essentially a continuation of what I tried to say before, but the Nibley City Council has voted to start very early beginnings of a special service district. And that means that they have adopted a resolution that said we're interested in starting a special service district. There's a whole bunch of notification in the newspaper before a public hearing, and then there's a sixty day period where people can protest the creation of such a district, and and then the district is created. Now it doesn't make any sense for Nibley City to create a special service district within Nibley City boundaries. That's I mean, Nibley City can do whatever elected representatives can do in Nibley City. So the whole idea of inviting other communities into a special service district is, again, this economy of scale. We could do something bigger. We could do something better. We could serve more residents with a with a larger facility. So am I answering the question you want? Okay. And so the next the next step, if city councils representing the people of their community, are interested in joining that special service district, they would go through the same process that the Nibley City Council has done, and that is adopt a resolution that says we're gonna start the process to join this special service district. Okay? And after after that district has been created, then the appropriate proposal can be formed, where, how big, what amenities, how much is it gonna cost, then that proposal can be put to the residents of the whoever joined the special service district so that the and and elect a board of directors for that special service district that would have taxing power. The very, very earliest that that vote could ever take place because it's a ballot initiative, it's it's hard to see it happening next year. Most likely, would be a year after that. Right? And then once a board of directors with taxing authority is possibly formed, then as I as I tried to mention, it takes a bunch of money to build something. So now you have to go borrow money to build it. And the district with taxing authority, you could save for forty years and build something, and the people that paid for it won't be able to use it. Right? Or or you could borrow money. And so then it takes another referendum of the people referendum of the people to say, yeah. We we also want to borrow money for that. Alright? So, you know, the yellow lines, I highly doubt there would be two districts or even three districts that that are formed based on the yellow lines because each community will have a chance. City councils will say, we wanna we wanna present this to our citizens or we don't. And so it'll be it'll be splotchy. You know? The Cass County Council can decide to split the county and say, yeah. We want the citizens in the South part of the valley to have a chance to be a part of this, or the Cass County Council could say, no. We don't we don't wanna present that proposals to our citizens. So it's a it's a long process. I remember four years ago during an election cycle when I was running for mayor, the parks and rec committee said, are you gonna bill us an indoor rec facility? And I had deer in the headlights. What? Are you kidding me? Do you know what that means? And I think what this count this Nibley City Council is doing and, hopefully, the the good faith that I'm operating on is not to say we're gonna have a special service district but to per present a proposal that makes sense to some people and might not make sense to everybody, but then the citizens, it'll be a direct vote of the citizens to decide if they want that or if they don't want that. Am I done?

I think I can mention one other way. It the way I understand it with special service district is, alternatively, a vote could go out to all the citizens independent of the city council and they could decide as citizens that we wanna create this district. That's not the way that Nibley City is approaching it now, but but I understand that that is the second option in terms of creation. That that there's a whole we had an attorney do a presentation. We think that we know it and then we have to study it again, but that's actually available on the website. You can look at that. Yeah.

Raya Smith from Nibley. Are the amenities within the indoor rec center for the proposal decided, or are they for up for further debate? And who will be part of that debate? Yeah. Not decided yet. Again, it goes back to

who's who's in the boat? Who who's a part of this and what do they want in it? So the the way that that process looks is, let's say that two or three communities or four decide we're going to build this rec center or at least explore it. They're the ones that speak to what's going to go into that, and then concepts are created. Usually, there's two or three concepts. There's an open house. People come and they they they talk about what they like, what they don't like. They see what resonates. A preferred concept is created, and then that's what goes to the voters. And and I'll also say this. Before it goes to the voters, this is probably the most critical spot. And if I could get your attention on this point especially, before it goes to the voters, a statistically valid survey is distributed to make sure what this rec center concept looks like is a good idea and it's gonna meet the needs. And if it doesn't, there may be a few refinements before it goes to an a vote. So again, final step is statistically valid survey before it goes to the voters. And that's what confirms whether or not you're on the right track. Right now, quite honestly, this survey, this initial survey is a preference survey. It's like, what are you most interested in? There's clear interest in recreation. We're looking at how do we explore that now. And then you confirm it with that that last step.

So jumping back a little bit to option two and option three. How so let's sorry. Rebecca Folger, Hiram, city council candidate. Let's suppose that the boat passes in Hiram and Hiram's on board and in the boat. Let's suppose that through one of those two options or three options, One of the rec centers is in Nibley, and one's in Logan. How what's the tax allocation?

Is it

is it allocated based on how close or proximity to the rec centers? I mean, if we have to travel fifteen minutes to Logan to the rec center, are we taxed at the same rate that Logan City that, you know, walks the block to the rec center is taxed, or is that still hypothetical and too soon to tell? But how how would that allocation of taxation work?

Yeah. I'll attempt to address that. And I know, Larry, I think you can help us with that as well. First of all, I'll say this. That's definitely a concern for Nibley as well. If there was a single facility and it's twenty minutes away from us, our our access is very different than if it's on the South End of the valley. So so that's that's a primary concern. I know the folks in Wellsville have expressed the same thing as we've presented data to them and and talked with them. And so the way I understand it is the general obligation bond is is similar to the schools, and it's, it's based on your property value, and, it's a percentage. Am I right? Something like that.

Yeah. So, maybe maybe a it's a terrible analogy, but cemetery districts are a special service district. So Nibley and Millville and maybe Hiram and Wellsville are different, but Nibley and Millville are both in a special service district for the cemetery that's located in Millville. And if I look at my property tax notification, the cemetery district board sets a certain rate, some percentage of my property value, my assessed value, which is, like, 55% of the of the assessed value, of my that's a separate property tax that's paid to the Nibley Millville Cemetery District. And everyone in the district is assessed the same rate. Correct? Yep. And and, again, according to a vote of everyone in the district, it's up down vote. Yes. We want to give that board of directors elected board of directors taxation power or we don't. And then up or down, yes, we want to borrow money or we don't. So creating the district is actually it's a district that has no power until the people, the voters give that power to the district through two votes. One, to give them authority to tax, and then they have to be elected officials. That's a great thing about America. And then two, the voters have to give that that district authority to borrow money.

Can I stop I'll pass him this one?

So would mem would members of the boards be elected specifically to be on the board, or would they be elected officials from city councils and other bodies?

Another analogy maybe. Back in 1964, the Cass County Council created a countywide fire district except for Logan. And that district never got formed, and the county is now trying to put that together. And the, the it it's up to the board. But in order to have a board that can have taxing power, they have to be directly elected by the citizens of that district. Now it could be districtized. It could be that Nibali gets a representative, and anyone else that wants to join would get a representative, or it could be all at large. And the fire district that we're trying to put together is working through that very same thing. But they're separate from the city council. But they're separate bodies from the city council. Right. And the fire district has I mean, the conclusion is if you're if that if that district has taxing power, they have to be directly elected by the citizens and residents of the district. Maybe districtized votes or area votes within the district, but it's not an appointment from the city council.

I I think we may have time for another question or two, and we can go ahead and wrap up. Anyone else have a pressing question? Again, if you have other questions later, we're happy to address them at any point. Kendall.

Kendall Welker, Nibley City. So say we get the special districts, say we go to the vote and there's a bond and we're gonna pay back the bond. Is there an end date for that taxation of the property tax? Like, once the bond is paid back or do we do another bond to expand it like like the school district? No. Is there an end date or is it a continuation?

That's that's the question. Yeah. That's a great question. The bond does have a term. Yeah. The bond does have a term. So there is an end date to the general obligation bond. Now what a community does at the end of that date is up to the community. Up to the board? No. No. If if you're gonna if you're gonna go beyond that bond to get permission from the residents to borrow money. Yeah. If you wanna borrow money, you have to get permission from the residents. So so at the end of that bond, if board. But there's still a board in your special service district.

The bond is paid back. Caitlin, if Then that board, if they want another bond, they have to

ask the citizens. Just like the school.

Yeah. So it's just like the school district. They want more money to help them. They can't even afford that board, and they can then gotta go in front of them first. Alright. I think we'll go ahead and wrap it up with that question. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate your interest, your questions. We're excited to explore this, figure out where it might go, and have a wonderful evening.

There's a plan there's a general plan that includes a hybrid plan for location. So how

does one access that one? Yeah. There there's no location identified yet. Yeah. At this point, it's just theoretical. Oh, you're talk you're talking about we have a parks and recreation master plan in Nibley City.