Nibley City Council- 11/6/2025

Come up. Oh, I mean, it makes time to talk about makes and. I have sad news from my girlfriend, the tractor. Anyway, before we call this meeting, we have a chance for opening ceremonies. Kaye is not going to make it tonight, and she's on the list. I'm gonna win this for better or worse. And the recent election gives me a chance to stop and think about things in a big picture. And you'll see on our agenda we have we're pleased to have Casey Snyder here, our state representative. And I think about stuff at a better level, and I think about stuff in the local level. And I think, why do people put up with us? Can you think of any other form of government that's more coercive, more in your face than local governments? We tell you how big your lock has to be, what your neighbor can do on their property that might affect you. You tell you how high your house can be, how how much frontage you need, how many dogs you can have. Why do people put up that? You can answer on your own. How tall your weeds are? How tall your weeds are, where you can park your car. It goes on and on. I think people put up with that is because we provide services to our residents that are more directly affect their way of life than any other form of government. We put up trash. We provide water. We take a swim away. We plow streets. We build roads, maintain roads. And so I think people realize the services that local governance provides them. But most importantly, they know where we live. And we speak And they know I hope they know that we are receptive. They're listening to their thoughts and hearing them. We may not always agree with the outcome, but we are available. And I thank the council for and and staff for fulfilling that that side of local governance. With that, if you join me, it's a pleasure to meet you.

Alright. Pleasure to the island

of The United States that we work at. And to the republic for which it stands,

one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for

Thank you. With that, I'll call the 11/06/2025 Midland City Council meeting to order. And let's start with a quick roll call if you would, Garrett. Aaron Mann. Aaron Mann. Nathan Robertson. Norman Larson. Larry Davidson. I mentioned Kate won't be here tonight. And Norman has to step out for a minute, so we'll have early in court. Nobody else has anything that will that anyway, I'll need to call you out. Staff, if you'd introduce Levi Robert, city planner.

Justin Monn, city manager.

Sure.

Staff, Nick Kinska, our planning commission chair. Appreciate you being here, Nick. K. With that, let's move on to consider approval of minutes. And if you would also take a look at tonight's agenda, I'd appreciate it. Any motions? We have a motion to approve. We have a motion and a second. We have a motion from Nathan, a second from Garrett to approve both. Any discussion on that, please? Seeing none, those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? There are no opposition. We'll have, minutes approved in the agenda. Next is an opportunity for public comment. This is a chance for, anyone who would like to address the council on any topic. Germaine to Nibley City, your chance to do that. Now we have an important public hearing two two public hearings scheduled tonight. So if you're here to speak on either of those two public hearings, I invite you to address the council in that context if you're able instead of during this open mic part of our meeting. Nevertheless, if you have something you would like the council to hear, sometimes people sign up and they don't realize that we're we don't take attendance. So if you signed up, say you'd like to speak, then come on up. And if you didn't sign up, you'd like to speak, come on up. Nathan, do you wanna talk to us? Thank you. Thank you. Then you're welcome to address us now. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you, city staff, council members, and mayor for the opportunity. We and then today, we'll have to depart for our public comment period on special service district, and it's

it's much off.

And it's in that light that I'd like to share my comments before I run those familial beauties. They say the best time to plant a tree is yesterday, and the second best time is today. The South Cache Valley Special Recreations Service District represents an opportunity to plant a figurative tree today. If approved and executed, it will doubtlessly take several years to come to fruition. My family will also be grown, and likely we will have we'll have little direct benefit from it. This, however, does not mean we will not indirectly benefit the added opportunity of services it will provide to those who come behind us. Please support the establishment of the special service district and plan that tree today.

Thank you, Nathan.

Casey, you signed up. Do you do you wanna address now or wait till? I if if it's okay with you, we have a discussion on the agenda with you, and Okay. That's when we'll back you up against the ball. Okay. Anyone else like to address the council?

One go ahead. I kinda signed up against the staff and didn't know where my name is supposed to be. Okay.

Introduce yourself. Tell us where you live. You're

you live with him. Well, that's that's not specific in the

I love Paulo. I'm nearly and I hear a nurse on that. That's the shirt. So my company

is already this R and D. So Catholic Valley Recreation Special Service District.

As parents, we always love it when our parent when our kids come and say, hey. You're doing a great job, mom. How many effects does your parent kids come and say that to you? Not very often. But I'm here to say that you guys are doing a great job, and I appreciate the time and effort that the council and staff put in for minimum citizens. I am also on the parks and rec committee, and I get asked a lot, hey. When is indoor rec coming to the South? And I'm like, well, you come to meetings and you learn it's gonna take longer, but we're working on it. And I hope that this passes and that I can tell citizens that Nibley is on the way. We're getting there, and we will keep jumping over those hurdles and going through those hoops to make it happen for our citizens, whatever that looks like. And And so I wanna thank you for that. And as Nathan, we have lots of children. We have three adults now and our youngest is eight. And

the creation of this, again,

will benefit others in the future, and I am willing to support that.

Thank you, Kendall. And I'm I'm very sorry during introductions. I I failed to call you out. This is what happens when I talk to people. I forget things. Kendall's not only on the parks and rec committee. Kendall is the chair of that committee. You give a lot of service and a lot of time to that as does the rest of your committee. So thank you. K. Anyone else like to address the council? Alright. With that, we'll close the public comment period and move to a planning commission report. Nick, is that you, or is anybody an analyst? Can I have him do that? Thank you, Nick. Hello,

chairman of the planning commission. During the last planning commission meeting, we continued to discuss and have and have a workshop on the RQA open space subdivision. I think we got really close to giving some more concrete direction on some of the adjustments and maybe recommendations on our side specific to the code in and of itself. We'll probably have one more meeting. We pull permission to kinda finalize our recommendation there. And we also had a workshop on some fencing standards, different things like that coming up with different scenarios and ideas on heights and and looking for uniformity or we can. So we we had a verse out there probably. Think we gave Levi some direction in the plan again.

So probably the next meeting or two will come forward with a clarification there.

And, also, Levi did mention that we will have a general plan open house this next week, which we're excited about. We'll open to the public. Obviously, we've offered many members of the the council and our city mayor to come and be a part of that. I think it'd be a great opportunity to interact with citizens of Natalie and give some direction with the consultants moving forward based on some feedback.

So

do you guys anyone in council, Larry, have any question or planning commission at all? No. Thanks for your time. Thank you, Steve.

Okay. I'd like to introduce representative state representative Casey Snyder. Casey, thank you so much for being here. Casey represents all of Nibley City and more. Casey lives in Paradise. Lucky guy. I was wanting to why he going to Paradise. Yeah. And, Casey, before we kick this off this, there's no votes. There's nothing else. Just a open forum, open discussion that if if you're okay with it, maybe you could give us something to warm up on. And then if you'd allow the council to ask questions of you Yeah. That'd be terrific again. No. I I didn't have to be three, like, I see 13 boards and items on the end of the season. That's a sure that's a sure thing. I don't know. There's a lot of old minds. Just you all are making this an opportunity to speak. So maybe by way of background, so I I mean, each of it. So I've been screening this area the last four years. I I I'm in what I say Canada, and we represent as well. And in the summer the early summer of this year, my colleague is the majority leader. So I've we've got some additional responsibilities, but, hopefully, it's all about the the purview and lens of how can we

do things in a possible way for a cash account, which a lot of them can support. There's a lot going on.

I'm wanting I'm giving the sort of the nanny gritty that I think through the most pressing issues of the day. But after that, if I were any question is on the table. Right? Like, you have people here in the audience that you have to answer to, and then it sort of filters down from your answers to that map to you. So I I think that's your soon. Totally. We are about two months and change into the next session, and it's for me, it feels like it's already started. There's a lot of pretty spicy topics coming up. The Republican majority down there is sort of gravitating to a series of properties and sort of a high level and because we haven't. They see a discussion really around some of the issues in water, energy, and education. Those are gonna be obviously topics of of the next legislative session made consistently come out. They clearly haven't been resolved or would be hearing from constituents and then speaking about them again. On the budget side, we'll tell you just as you're managing expectations for grants and opportunities. Right now, as a last look, we're about $500,000,000 in the hole going into next legislative session. The most bureau part b, at the end of the session, balance budget where constitutions are required to do so. And then, obviously, the market balances and things happen. A large portion of our imbalance right now that we'll be addressing as we first get into session is because of some changes in the big, beautiful bill. That's what's largely driving it. We are seeing some noise in the economy. But for our from our vantage point, the biggest changes to what we now have to cover because the federal government has withdrawn. And that's what put us into a deficit perspective. On the water side, I'm sure there'll be some larger discussion on this as we move forward. You know, the I, for better or worse, been to the past with this area of policy. I was kinda the last man standing. A couple of water giants decided to retire and enjoy their lives from the legislature. So I was and settled the issue. We have been building long term into a plan, which I hope is very reminiscent of what Utah looks like and the the way we run the roads. There's been a lot of politics of earning water and who gets good and who doesn't, who has the slobies, and how much money we get. And then we really tried to succinctly bring that into a better process. So now as you all are applying for grants and such moving forward, there's gonna be one clearinghouse, one agency that or one board that brings all the water agencies together and has a discussion collectively about all the pots and pans and the and prioritized them. They also are going to move forward with the creation of a long term plan, much like what we have with Sid with you, some of the other things that you're from couples. That's that's sort of the plan moving forward. There is going to be discussion next month around a potential water fee. So two years ago, our analysts said we need to study this issue. We have the authorities to generate funds. Tell us Utah Water, the project needs out there, and then give us we're gonna work through some of the suggestions on how to fund that. And we'll tell you that the need came back on a per annual basis of about $1,200,000,000. That's the statewide need for water infrastructure that is replacement and then growth under the current growth scenarios. The bulk of that, we believe, if the policy can be generated by local currencies, about 800,000,000 to 1.1. There is a discussion going on. Again, as a a discussion level, not not available at this point, nothing finalized, generating efficient $300,000,000 stays so that the state can aggregate funds and then supply all of that 300,000,000 back in full grants to communities to sort of help you get worse, especially smaller communities. That's that's really a lead driver for that. The the other thing that I think is probably top of mind is they're like, the the governor may may have mentioned zoning in a recent statement. No. He did. He did. To her that's not the first time I've heard of. Just just so that we're clear, I am unless sort of pushed in a different direction, I actually moved also with the governors pushing and there's a whole bit of it. He raised it. I started from a trade machine and then he based it in there. I was pretty specific about what you want it to do, and and I really still believe, fundamentally, there is a need for that local opinion, that local voice. I don't want somebody deciding to do in Nibley or in Paradise or anywhere in this valley. I think you all have these discussions. You have people that serve in volunteer capacities and staff to take future. I I think the the frustration is that we are unable to drive the cost of housing down in the state. Some of that's market factor. I think the blame is unfairly at least, you know, placed on communities. I I think a better discussion would be around entire lots, what those options provide in terms of housing opportunities, or in a robust conversation about commercial owning homes and second and third and fourth homes that are covered the market addresses them from taxing policy, which I think that has more or will have more pay in inputs on what the cost of housing does. But just so you know, that is what's driving that debate. The government believes that we're not building funds, and that is where that's coming from. I don't necessarily suppose. So with that, I would kind of open it up to any issues. Those being issues that have either problems stopping.

So Thank you, Casey.

I should have asked how how much time do you have? I will give you whatever you would like. That's not a good answer. Goodness. Let's do this. We're a lot if I don't hold on to Nothing on. Yeah. So I I have a few questions, but I don't wanna hold on because I I bet The council will ask questions that I have. If not, I'll follow-up. With counsel, I'll turn it to you. Questions for Casey?

Derek. Casey, good to see you. Yeah. Well, I'm zoning. You can work in you know, we got the. We'll see if we can make

this build one of those. You might see a lot more sky rises and things like that.

I don't

I don't know. It's not, like, making mostly discussions for Cache County. And

so I would definitely be able to boost that. And

I've we all know what the option is. I know some of those who are in the homes, checked in Weber County. I think there's some other solutions that maybe could take place with that, you know, in in mandating maybe a percentage or something where, let me do something like that. It's one of the things that I've discussed with local builders and different things. I mean, the surveys and everything we've gotten. Most of those surveys, like, majority, 86% of all people want a detached single family home with small private space. We've been on the buying that. They're building townhouses and condos, and that's pretty much all good. So I'm not even like you're even listening.

We don't we wanna talk to a couple of the builders about that. It it costs, you know, another $1,015,000 every time you sit for a wall. But you think there's waste into

it. I'm assuming market pressures and infrastructure and everything else being the cost of it is.

We know we kept it low down here, but it was because it was a trade off with the campaign. We did that. It was gonna be unique.

You know, maybe we can see some, you know, some teamwork in that. Some

of that. It is mandating in those on, you know, speed.

Yeah. Well, I mean, maybe to kinda explain portion of the why. I think he has looked and I won't speak for the dark part. I can just maybe regurgitate what he he said. I think he's looking at Texas as a model, which has barely loose zoning requirements, and he's saying that's the fix. Now there's other factors there. That's what's right. Again, I I don't necessarily agree with the cure that's being open. I think there will be some discussion, and I think this is the better direction to go, moving from a state approach to more of a carrot. And I think there is discussion of freeing up potential money around transportation dollars, BNC road funding as a component of the city who applies or promotes housing. I think that's a better approach. But the other side of this is it's just there are things happening in the economy that maybe government can't control. Interest rates are high. Material costs are high. Land values are high. Some of this, unfortunately, is.

And we don't we don't have to make some of the number of ways she does

for ability to land. So, you know, we need fixing it.

Can I can I follow-up on how's it going? Yeah. So do you mind if I so I mentioned during thanks for calling you guys. I mentioned the opening ceremonies. You know? How do we get away with this? And I would say we get away with it less and less these days. People are mad. And I think the number one issue that people are mad about is a resistance to change. And they moved to Nibley for open space and vacant fields next to them. And they're not happy when when the city, I think, in good faith, if we get the benefit of the doubt, tries to do our part in solving the housing crisis. Personally, I believe cities need to be a part of solving the housing crisis, but I don't believe, at least the vocal part of Nibley residents feel they are a part of solving the housing crisis. One in five mayors in Cache Valley that were in a competitive race in the last election, four out of five lost. So I think that anger is being manifested. The one that won ran on a low impact, low development, no change kind of platform. Our own city council meet the candidate tonight for for one candidate that all future housing and Nibley should be on a half acre. Another candidate said the state doesn't have the power to force Nibley to zone the way the state says it does. So people are upset, and I feel like we're caught in the middle at the local level. And you mentioned that. I'm not I'm not harping on you, Casey, by any means. But here's my question. Who's gonna solve the housing problem? Is it local governments? Is it state? Who's gonna solve that? And then I might have a follow-up depending on how you answer. Well, I don't think it will be either of us, honestly. If you want my I I think what will solve it is individuals deciding that they want to subdivide and develop their property in a way for all kinds of options for people. I mean, at the end of the day, there won't be homes unless people decide to sell their house, build houses. And the rest of this is sort of window dressing on the edges. Now we can push, which is where I think some of the pushes come from the state to say, well, if there's a plan to do x, you're you cannot restrict that private property. Right? I think that's fundamentally where the states come down. That's caused consternation because we're pushing at a macro level. We're hurt with 40,000 people, and you're having to implement it within a small. That's that is the friction, and you eat all of that. We hear about it, but you live it. It. Again, outside of I I I don't believe that it's a valid problem. I do believe that or a permanent I do believe that there are enough entitled lots in this state to address the housing issue. For whatever reason, those properties have not moved to the next phase and come to construction. That's that's the loans, where the interest rates and bonds problem, that's the, you know, the cost of infrastructure, those sorts of things. We can probably navigate that. But I don't tell somebody to start to turn their we're just kinda working. Right. And I thank you for your empathy to to see where we are. I mean We've got feet on them somewhere. You know? I think I think our unprecedented economic success has created the problem. We're we're the industry state. We're the beehive state. We build things. We're we're industries. We're a beautiful place to live. We have natural resources. We have it it's it's a great thing, but it's our unprecedented success, not only our fertility rate that has created a problem. And so I'm glad that you I mean, have empathy for us. People ask me all the time, why don't you just say no? You can't you cannot sell your farm even though you're done farming and your kids don't wanna farm. Just say no. Just tell them you declare a moratorium, and then I explain legally what a legally what a moratorium is and all that. But I that's where we're at. We have property rights. Greg, thanks for being here. You're you're a trooper for coming every night. People think we have the control, but I actually don't believe we have. And just one more thought on that and I'll be quiet. If the state and thank you for your I think what you're saying is there's a partnership there. If the state does something to, let's say, help build infrastructure because that's very expensive, whatever the state does, I hope you will form a strategy to make sure that taxpayer investment gets to the end of the row in terms of affordability. And we don't based on a free market supply and demand, Supply is so far behind demand that that taxpayer investment doesn't simply reward

developers

for developing. That somehow and we can talk about techniques for that, you know, techniques. But somehow that affordability actually gets to people that

would like to buy a house. Yeah.

Well, I know that those discussions are ongoing, and you've got, you know, Steven White in the house has historically run a lot of those bills. I think you're gonna see people like represent Cal Roberts from Draper's that we got a little bit more to. I will tell you from our vantage point and and my vantage point even is we're navigating this. We do we we Yeah. Yeah. And so let's say that, you know, there's been some frustration with us and warranted or not. I'm that's not really what I'm saying, but we will go to the league and say, what do you think? Help us get a deal. Find a way forward. And there are very few bills in this space that I have seen move in with with a lot of blood on the floor without the league being in the middle of that discussion. And if if not going neutral group. And so for as you're trying to navigate that, you know, we I I have 61 Republican members in in my caucus, 14 Democrats. It's impossible for the opinions of every community they represent to get elevated within the nuance of a complicated bill that has wide implication. So we rely on organizations like. If there is real problems with particular piece of legislation moving forward, I would encourage you to actively work with with those leading representatives. We really do listen to them. They've been historically very good workers. Yeah. We're for those that don't know who've been active, the League of Cities and Towns were active participants in the legislative policy committee. And thank you for working with Lee. And Lee advocates for local authority on zoning. And that's why people get mad at us, to be honest with you. Because on one hand, you know, there's pressure to solve the problem. But on the other hand, it's it is in our ballpark. And good at the management and the constitution that I'm taking away people's rights to have a farm hang out. I'll be quiet now. So I'm actually and I see Hayden going, it's about time. Yeah. Casey, I I think

to answer how you open, I think, you know, maybe you have purpose and then as well. And you're talking in in there, and I'm excited to see you as the majority leader to continue to do that. Similarly, on the on the talk talking as before, I I just echo that. I'd like to see this day take harder, more creative approaches like you mentioned, right, of first time home buyer type things or, you know, changing the mortgage rates sometimes can be, I mean, who the buyer is to encourage selling, not necessarily just developing. So, yeah, I'd like to see him do that before they start superseding in some sense. So I I appreciate you saying what you said. And

I I think your work on the water is gonna be interesting and tough and

the the budget as well. So I I would go to the questions I had, so I just wanna say thanks. I do think he represents well. Hopefully, he'll continue to do so. And if you have any help from us, I want some Well,

Well, I I I do need to put a a plus a shout out to Justin. He has been he has represented you well. I probably talked to him more than any other city manager in the in the district. So when when you have concerns, I do know about them. So he does his job there. Just make sure that

Eric?

It is going to be interesting. I will just kinda say that. And the reason I say that is, obviously, we are pushing for more choice. That's sort of where that originated and then just find out what is It is now being counterbalanced with a court ruling that says it may be unconstitutional. So I I'm not sure exactly how that shapes out. I do know we're kind of watching how how that unfolds. I will tell you there there is some noise in the numbers that we're getting back. We are seeing significant participation in that program. Year over year, more people apply to that scholarship and actually are able to use it. That which is good, I to a degree. But I there there's sort of two things that I think we need to be careful with. One is sort of a discussion around what is a private school. So you have online homeschool entities now sort of saying for a portion of what you would receive in scholarship will be a private school and give you some of this money back, and it's skewing the data. It looks like there's a lot more private schools in the state than there actually are, and it's probably not going to be on the ground with students as much as it needs to. So so we need to work through some of that. And I think there are some accounting issues with how that money is being spent. I do think we've tried to catch as much of the I don't know. Best political way to say this. But people are stupid and stupid and it's gonna save money. So maybe we can do better job audit than that. You know, we have we're not personal about being people wide, ski passes with state education. And we're and, you know, like, why? Well, we're teaching our kids how to ski. It's not really what education is about. So I I think we need to navigate some more. I we're in a really interesting time outside of that. I Yeah. My my kids actually I have one kid assigned. Yeah. Like, school. My daughter, who's here, actually was in in with the heritage. We don't have a dual version program. And I don't know what the answer is long term to education in the state. I am worried that more and more, we are seeing parents abdicate their responsibility. And because they're doing so, the schools are becoming more and more involved in things that have nothing to do with education. They're teaching kids how to be, you know, how basic manners. Until we have to go up a couple years ago that said, your kid can't have the school unless he's money trained. Yes. Teachers teach kids how to go to the bathroom. And and so I don't know if we fix that, but that's certainly something that I'm educated It's a keeps that I am great about.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking at my neighbors randomly. I I think there is a lot of that that's happening. I do think there's a at least in there's a huge contingency of of mothers who are homeschooling. I know just in my own neighborhood, so many women who are homeschooling. So it's almost like there's a division, like a diversion of approaches to the way that people are doing schooling. You're saying schools will take care of it more or more.

No. I'm gonna use myself because I don't want my kid getting educated there. So I know there's a lot of strong things. I just wanna get your take on that. Yeah. And it's tough. Like, you know, maybe, you know, that's so we tried we had some problems with education with one of the kids. We tried to go half day in school just to try. I I'm surprised my wife and my daughter still love each other. My my. I'm very sympathetic. The system works. It I I don't fix it up too. You know? When I I mean, I don't feel like I'm at all, but, you know, when I grew up, the school was the center of the community, and everybody put their kids in school, and they care about how the sports teams did. And and I think what public education provides is the opportunity for kids of varying social economic status and varying backgrounds to sort of mix and see each other and have have an experience and bring the community together. What's happening because of some of the other issues is that schools are becoming some of the most divisive places in our public sphere, and I don't know if we fix that. Again, I think that's why you're just in college school. But

if they do have any college that helps minimize those, like, kids from any socioeconomic level, get all those schools together in private school

because they come up for it. What what we have to watch, I think, long term is that the kids whose parents may not be involved as involved in their lives are not the only kids in the parent. Yeah. For sure. That is that is the row. Route. It's

There yeah.

I mean, school now, I don't know. I just graduated. I'm teaching different. It's mostly. Yeah. It's it's bad. Where she's at, the child on school,

and I just better.

Yeah. I mean, family stuff. The only other question I had is

this whole

thing. Well,

I I I would so there are those of us in the legislature who feel very strong. That the court has overstepped its balance. The constitution is very clear that only the legislature has the power to rule the dominance. And in the current ruling, we're we're all our constitution is also clear that how constitutional amendments are made. And for whatever reason, the court has determined that a proposition, despite not having approval from the legislature or two thirds, which is our requirement, or any other constitution on that. Now by its various majority of the home bureau has the same weight as a constitutional amendment because it's overriding constitutional. That's our dispute. That's a department of our dispute. We have obviously petitioned the court at every level. We've been screwed up to the Supreme Court who will manage this back toward the with the current judge. The judge I I think there's also the judge has set herself up for a position of failure, maybe. Is maybe that's the right way to say it. There's this we we have complied, however, with her order to read on maps. At the same time she's asked us to do that, she has also allowed plaintiffs in a case that had no public participation and no have not gone through the process that we have done now for some time the opportunity to present their own maps, at which point she's indicated that she's going to pick, which, again, feels pretty outside the bounds of what constitution says. That's the. Now what I hope when when the thing is gonna happen is next week on the '10, The judge is going to make a ruling on this. My hope is that she will select our big grudge renewed con mass, and that would be what is in place for the new election cycle. If she does that, what will happen is we will continue to sue, and the courts will decide this whole separation hours as she go back to the city supreme court where we don't want us to get a hold of. We wanna sort of say that we're looking for for the federal Supreme Court to make a ruling on legislative versus judicial. That's why it will happen. It's like everybody knows a little brown data plaintiff's in the case. We're mad that we had to do what they really want to do in the court of this matter. If the other option happens where she does not select the math that we redrew, I think you should buy because it's gonna be interesting. I think we will take extra measures.

You know? We feel like the class of our statute in number of cases.

We're gonna be we provide one state of growth more. Yeah. Because the constitution is pretty clear on that. I I mean, maybe, you know, I generally don't like to throw one branch under the gun under the bus. I do feel like this score has been frustrating from at least my perspective. This is sort of the you're gonna hear me actually next month that the the court made what I believe is one of the most fascinating movies that I've ever seen and said that our first responders in this state are only covered by government immunity in the event of a natural disaster. So if you're if you have a heart attack right now in Nibley City and, you know, you're served by Ira. Right? If Hirem goes out in response, and they are not covered by government immunity if they mess up, you know, even no matter what, they're covered. Unless you have a wind attack or an earthquake, under which time you suddenly have an emergency and you're covered by. It's the weirdest thing I've ever seen in the and it's fifty years of precedent, and, like, they're having an academic exercise with people's lives. So you're gonna see us from Phil's, but I'm gonna be talking once more. Emergency in our COVID needs and disasters and everything else that everybody believes is an emergency, including basic medical problems and. So they're you're you're gonna see some conflict between us and the judicial branch. Session and governor has already signaled that he wants to add two additional justices to the court. So that'll bring us up to seven, which is consistent with the federal courts and and most of the states that were size. That'll be contentious. We'll probably add additional justices at the appellate level in this case right now. And we will probably create a constitutional special order so that constitution questions can go to a panel that gets specific. Discuss constitution. But this is let me I'm not so I am very biased. The legislative branch is the best branch for government, and this is the best part in in the world. Like, the senate is all the more in the government. The judge is for a. The house is where it's at. But I I am speaking my voice. This tension that we have is actually a good thing. It it can really back it up. The worst thing that can happen is us deciding everything to go through. So this is an intentional. With with all of us seeing you're doing, I mean, I don't look like you've aged. I have. I had no brainer. And if I was Mhmm. If I was Mhmm. If you look at my pictures when I came in seven sessions ago, I was I was young. I looked like I believed into a world's second place and was idealistic. I don't know what to see now, but that's not what I see. I'm gonna ask one that I think is short and allow you a very short answer. When I think of taxes, I believe nearly every tax has inflationary pressures built in to the taxing strategy, sales tax, income tax. If things if, you know, if there's inflationary pressures, the rates stay the same and the number of dollars collected goes up. Because cities have to deal with government, sorry, have to deal with deal with inflationary energy as well. There's one notable, you know, going there's one notable difference in that, and that is property tax. And in order for Nibley City to try to keep up with inflationary oppressors, we have to go through a very onerous process called truth in taxation. And if we don't wanna go through that process, we actually have to take a cut in the tax rate if there if there is increased value of property. So are you interested in building inflationary an inflationary measure into property tax without going through truth in taxation? I don't know what the appetite generally would be. There's probably a window to have the discussion because I will tell you there we are being significant pushback from our constituents because some entities have waited, waited, waited, waited and not done any sort of incremental increases and then done huge swings. So the the school district here did that. There's been communities across the schools that are up and down school districts did that. And I, you know, I've I appreciate why they did that because they didn't raise taxes. You're Yep. That's a hard thing to do. But when you have someone that sees a tax bill and they open up and they said, my tax is 30% in one year, it kinda gets people less than. So I know there's a discussion about a cap on how much you can raise in a given year. And if you're gonna have the discussion about how much you're gonna allow in in any one particular year, you should probably have a discussion about what you do with inflation relative to inflation. I'm not saying that the viability of getting around to different taxation is real. I will say there are some people that consider that religion on Capitol Hill. But if you're gonna have a discussion, people make ways that I think you could have it is within a conversation that says, you you can't increase 15% yet because there's there's so much on strategic encourage government, school districts to keep up with inflation and go through the process more often instead of just wait till it's so important. You know what? I I will say too, like, we, you know, we pushed back on some of the districts and some of the agencies on the big property taxes mostly because we are feeling sort of the issue for market situations. They probably got more emails on the Cache County School District property owners than I've seen on anything in a long time. So you kinda saw us, you know, trying trying to navigate that space. We were encouraging maybe in type of roles. The legislature requested the governors. He's, you know, from his budget for next year to look at 5% across the board pattern. So we are trying to be immigrants. We're saying you should probably look at productions and reductions in this. Thank you. Anything else, staff? If questions you wanna ask at this point, or do you just meet in smoke filled rooms and figure it all out?

I think you've already hit on everything I've Okay. Had interest in.

You know? You'd say you'd be interested in doing this tomorrow. I think we've Oh, man. Almost. Yeah. Thank you for that. That's fantastic. You as I mentioned, you do a fantastic job for us at MS. Thank you. You're open. You're available to us. We know where you live. There's something you want to do with people. And I wanna I wanna say especially thank you for help drilling a new well. So KC helped with with the grant to help us drill a new well to to keep up with things here and, I believe, and so really appreciate your service. Yeah. Let's let's see. Let's do this. Seems good. Excellent. Thanks. Thanks, Shane. Be safe. Okay. Next, we have a public hearing. This is a important public hearing. They're all important. This one's especially important because there's a lot of steps involved legally to create a spectral service district. And so this public hearing is a notice of intent to establish the South Cache Valley Recreation Special Service District. And before we open the public hearing, I see Eric. Thank you very much. Eric is Nibley City's attorney. And I'm not sure. Justin, do you wanna give an intro to this? Yeah. We'll give you a quick brief intro, and then Eric can correct me for all the mistakes I make. Eric, can you hear us okay?

Yes.

K. Thanks for joining us tonight.

You bet. Yeah. Thank you. Welcome, Eric. So I'll just give a quick brief background for those in the in attendance tonight. You are you are aware that back in August, you passed a resolution that started the process to create a South Cache Recreation District. Currently, this district would consist of Nibley City limits, and it would create an entity or create a framework in which we would invite other municipalities around us to be able to join and try to construct some sort of recreation facility. So there's no definitive plan on what that rec facility is yet. There's not a location. There's not a size. There's not a cost. There's not anything to that other than what we're trying to do is set the foundation of the framework to have people join us so that we can have this conversation and answer some of those questions. And at some point in the future, be able to take a plan to the citizens to vote on whether or not they would like to be taxed for pre constructing the planned recreation facility. So we're really just trying to lay the groundwork here. We're trying to get people involved, trying to get the word out there. We have had some discussions with other municipalities. We've been to Wellsville City Council. We've had discussions with going talking to Hiram. And, really, what we're trying to do is is create this framework so they can join us. If nobody joins us, then the special district means nothing. We don't need a special district to use Nibley City tax money to be able to construct anything in Nibley City. So it's a little bit of, again, just trying to set up the framework and allow it to happen. And so what we did is last August, we started this process. We passed a resolution. That resolution started a time clock that needed to expire as well as certain very specific public notification requirements that needed to happen in order for to take in this this step we're trying to take tonight, which is a public hearing. So tonight, the public has the opportunity to be able to speak to you about their thoughts on creating this recreation district. And then this is where it gets a little fuzzy for me, and I may have to have Eric jump in. Then they have a certain amount of time to be able to file protests. And if a certain number of protests are filed, then the establishment of the district is just not possible. If that threshold is not met, then the council will be able to decide at a later date, in a later meeting, whether or not to officially stamp and create the district. Is that correct, Eric?

Yes. Tonight is just a public hearing. People, can have already filed a, objection to the proposed district, and they have another sixty days to do that. At the end of sixty days, then we'll we'll see what has been received and see if it's still in the discretion of the city council to move forward.

Thank you. Yeah. Excellent. I just probably emphasize the involvement of the public in direct votes through a referendum on this. So if the district is created in order to have taxing authority, the people have to give that district taxing authority. In addition and even if it's just Nibley City, if Nibley City or the district wish to borrow money against the faith and credit of the citizens of Nibley, that's another vote of the citizens to allow the borrowing of money. Unless I have it wrong, Eric. If I'm wrong, then help me out. Yeah. Let me let me try and say that in a way that I I hope will be clear.

The creation of the district does not grant the district any taxing authority. The district has to be created, and only after it is created can then the question be presented to the citizens of of whether to, grant the district taxing authority.

Perfect. Thank you for helping. Okay. Questions from council before we open public hearing for clarification. Alright. Then we'll What? Yeah. Please. Thank you. This is not our opportunity for us to discuss other than that silent hearing. Are we doing the answer questions and things like that in the system today or just hear what they have to say? There's there's no votes taken for sure. At the leave in public hearings, we're now an attorney. They help us. We're allowed to try to provide information, but it's probably stay away from from policy discussions. Certainly, we won't take any votes. We've already taken the vote that launched the public hearings, so then we wait sixty days and see what else happens. K. Just wanna make sure that's And, Eric, if if you if you're able and willing if people have questions and you have information for them, I would love it if you would if you would be able to chime in as well.

Be happy to. Thank you.

Thanks, Nathan. Okay. With that, let's open the public hearing if you wish to address the council on creation of South Cache Recreation Street, please let us know. Tell us your name, if you would, and where you live.

My name is Maribel Smith. I live in Italy near Ann Arbor. I am in favor of creating a special service district, which is, I think, of the the area where the recreation center will serve will involve more than just city. So it's really important that we try to collaborate with other cities on us. My question is, what is the time frame that we have to have other with the validates collaborate with us? Like, is there a deadline? There has to be a deadline. I I assume for me to to join the special service district.

Ed, you can stay there if you want. Eric, can you cover that question for us, please, if you heard it?

Sure. There there isn't a, you know, a statutory deadline for others to join. But as a realistic matter, you know, we have to hear from them within probably the next six to eight months so that we can then make plans of, you know, who all is in the boat and, you know, what what will that recreation district end up doing based on who joins.

Thank you. K. Thank you, Mia.

Who else? There's a couple of names here. I'm not sure if you meant to sign in because you're here or you wish to speak. Nathan Bald Nathan Ballston. I am here, but not speaking. Okay. Thank you for coming regardless. Sure. Lance Anderson? Yep. Different different circus, different set of monkeys. Well, I just I know where you live now. Oh, you didn't put the address now. That's our lead. Anyone else wish to address the council? I have a man. I'm a I have a dog. Let let's we're not an exclusive club. In fact, we we would Fuck you. One of these days, I'd like to talk to you about being part of a special service district. Oh, wait. That's a policy discussion. Hold on. I'm sorry. I didn't anyway, let's let's hear let's hear a What other city So tell us your name. I think I have the mic and K. I I too have heard rumors about the special district for a recreation center. When I have to be available, not the address to be aware of this. You have a discussion with these other cities, Melville, This recreation center? Yeah. I'll I'll try to answer that. We've engaged with Providence, Millville, Hiram, Wellsville, Paradise. And in fact, we will be at a we we've surveyed these towns as part of feasibility study that Nibali funded. We'll be in Hiram on an upcoming city council meeting, and we will be in Wellsville at one of their upcoming city council meetings. Those two have shown the most interest in taking a next step with us. K. I personally am in favor, but I'm just one person. Thanks.

Thank you. Letting your local elected officials know that would be great.

Anyone else? Okay. Oh, please. Yep. Thank you. And another member of our parks and rec committee. I'm sorry. Again, I'm slow to Hey. My name is Caitlin. I live in Nibley.

And, yeah, like mayor said, I'm on parks and rec. And in Nor Rec is kind of what spurred me to join and be on the parks and rec committee. And just as being part of this process and seeing kind of the the background of it, it's been really interesting. And knowing that this special service district, if I feel like, realistically, if we want to do a rec center and to do our community right with doing a rec center, a special service district is what needs to happen next. I don't think I think if Nibley moves forward and and does their own rec center, other people and other communities are gonna come, and we will already have outgrown it by the time we open the course. And so I think if we could get with the other surrounding communities, ideally, have them in place special service district as well. And that gives us just more opportunities and more more to work with for in the door break space. And I think Nibali has done a great job with kind of leading the way, and I think we just are gonna have to keep shooting that. And so by us taking the first step, hopefully, that will encourage other communities to join as well. So, yeah, I'm definitely in favor of of moving forward with the special service district. Thank you. Thank you, Caitlin.

Anyone else here to address the council? Going once, twice, three times. Thank you for coming tonight. Thanks for thanks for speaking up. You can always approach your elected representatives anytime on any issue, but it's it was an important step for us to focus public hearing to allow to allow voices against forming the special service district to be heard, especially heard. K? With that, we'll we'll have public hearing and move to our next agenda item. Thanks, Eric. Thank you, Eric. Yep. K. It's okay to escalate. Okay. Next, we have a discussion and consideration, ordinance twenty five thirty one. This has been the parking regulations for non motorized vehicles. So vehicles. We've talked about this once. This is the second time.

Yeah. So, I was just planning on giving you an update of of what has been changed since the first reading. And then, council member Lowerson did send some suggested changes, so I've I'll put those up on the screen as as well for for discussion. So what's what's in the meeting packet in in Teams reflects these changes. So the this first one, the updated draft removes the restriction for parking and operable vehicles and public rights of way. There was some discussion in in the last city council meeting about this. You know, if somebody breaks down, is it really reasonable to to ticket them? And and we just felt as you know, that that was a good point and and from staff's opinion that we would just remove that provision of the ordinance of of restricting parking for inoperable vehicles. There would still they would still be subject to forty eight hour parking limitation, you know, which is already baked into the ordinance. And then this next one is just clarifying language added for nonmotorized equipment just just so it's a little bit more more clear about what we mean by that, providing some examples. So that those are those are the only things that have changed in this draft. And, you know, staff's recommendation is approval with these changes. Nonetheless, I'll put up on the screen that what council member Lowerson sent before this meeting, and I don't know if if you just wanted to talk about that, Nate, or and explain that, we can we can discuss.

I think for the just for the if you could recall, it's fine specific to this one. The pictures that were taken in the trailers and do it. So my basis was, as we kinda scroll through these, it felt like after our inspection at the first reading, it was, like, the safety of being visible, especially in the next picture. And our code enforcement officer had mentioned a couple of youth and and people on, like, e scooters having collisions with these set of of equipment. And so I started just kinda thinking it I think it'd be more more based on visibility. And so the proposed language that I have just took what staff had suggested, but kind of put in some time in place manner type restrictions of most of just being you can't see. So whether that's a storm or at night, I just felt like we were going a little too far and saying, you can't park the trailer on the hey. What are you doing?

At any time, it could be impounded immediately.

I've been trying to balance that in now. If that's that's where this language came from. So we're trying to balance some of those things we talked about last time. I don't think it's a moment. And a good discussion one early. Yeah. Jen. Thanks.

And we can come back to that one way turn to his counsel. Derek?

Yeah. A lot of those statements when I was reading. Yes. And she had mentioned that forty eight hours.

And I'm working in section c and I'm just really with the changes.

Jeremy Lynch is at forty eight hours, and then four zero five says it's not allowed, and it's a meeting. It sounded like to read that, it's like a contradiction. I was like, there's gotta be a way to clarify that

it's not allowed, but it is allowed, you know, for for being hours.

So Like, making speech helps address for call management.

Okay. I I think we're getting into the discussion. That's great. So I'm gonna turn it over to the council and invite invite you to continue to participate.

K. Yeah. I'm just

you know, in the scenario we talked about in the last meeting, you know, I brought a leak and grabbed my trailer. I was uploading that, and then we're gonna raise that and unhook that to run the store to get something else, leaving that trailer in the street. I mean, I feel like especially during the day, I mean, really, it's not really subject to it. I mean, it's going to be moved, you know, before the beginning of it. We're getting have the project be done. And just be like, we're putting we're gonna create some limitation. It might be too much for me.

Because the nighttime, I mean, it makes a point of that because

when the visibility we talked about, we've been accidents. People will see a trigger of itself and night is simply black, and there's no street lights on that street. I mean, one of the ways on time, but that definitely is an issue. I think maybe that's the focus should be the visibility

of it in the hazard that creates in the evening.

Yeah. I will mention that we have heard complaints beyond just nighttime that if there's equipment or or a trailer, you know, small trailer in the street that it's difficult for people to see. They're backing out of their driveway, and it's just all of a sudden there. So I I do think it's heightened safety issue during during night, but I I do think some in the community have expressed that that it it's just just it being there, sitting there is isn't is a safety issue. So take the treatment. Yeah. So that so that that's that's how it is now. But, again, another reason for this is enforceability. We can't enforce for something that's unlicensed in the road. We don't know who it belongs to. Like Yeah. There's no way the city can enforce that. We could we could make we sometimes try to make an assumption. We'll go knock on the door and ask them if it's someone if it's their trailer. But just because it's in front of someone's house doesn't mean it's their vehicle or their equipment. So that's a difficult thing when we're talking about public streets is if you if you put something there, it could be anyone's. It's not on their property. We we also enforce, you know, nuisance, and it always goes back to the property owner. If if there's something they're doing that's against code, then we enforce the property owner. If it's on a public street, we can't we can't enforce it. So the enforceability is is an issue. So if we have a time limit, I I suppose we could we could, let let's say we we we we just did the forty eight hour limit. I suppose we could impound it after forty eight hours. That is an option if we but but that's part of the reason it it is this way is because we can we can track it the same way as we could if it were a licensed vehicle. We don't know whose it is. We can't ticket them. All we can do is impound it. So but if but if you want to go the direction of, waiting forty eight hours or or only enforcing it at night, such as, council member Lowerson suggests that I mean, we're we're all ears to that. This is we'll we'll do whatever you you feel is appropriate for sure.

It takes a day and maybe two days.

Usually, no one think they should be punishing that. So

I'm just trying to figure out how how to do the code enforcement for the sake of everybody so it'll create hazards and safety issues

and also allows flexibility to get your stuff soon.

Yeah. So I think, Garrett, to get to a point that we need to get to, we you know, an amendment would be appropriate. And and I don't know. You don't have to have one to offer or or maybe Nathan's got a remedy. I'm not sure either one, but, eventually, we have to

Yeah. I'll prove rest in this convention.

And I don't think we should work something from the bench. I think we need a specific amendment. And if we need to go away and think about it for build the next meeting, that's fine too. Nathan?

Yeah. I was getting motion right here to to continue.

Let me select as in discussion. Done. No second, ma'am. And we have a motion and a second to continue this item To the meeting. Next meeting. To the next meeting? K. Thanks. So that's a debatable motion. I entertain discussion on it. I think one of the things that would help is well, you you brought up some concerns, and I certainly appreciate those. Do we have more information for staff to gather before we get through the next meeting? Maybe Guess all

point out a few things that I think

not just staff, but all of us need their duty for each time.

In 11 o two point o four b, it specifically talks about parking provisions in addition to parking provisions contained in the Utah State Code. And this is more of a clarification, but or I mean, I may need a question for the lawyers. Some of our laws feel redundant to what's in that code, but it may be because they're referencing highways rather than our streets. And so some some clarity on with what certain rules us as a city have to have that are similar to theirs and whether or not just referring to state code will be enough for a code enforcement, etcetera. So I guess that's the question. Just what does state law stop and city ordinance have to send in on certain roads, etcetera?

Yeah. And I I always struggle with this when suggesting code, whether we should be redundant with state code or whether we should just reference it. I will say that I'm I'm pretty certain I'm not an attorney, but I'm almost a 100% certain that, there is a provision in in Utah code for parking some parking restrictions that do apply to all public streets, not just highways. And and, I mean, the bike lane, the one that just passed this last legislative session, it it applies to all bike lanes, not just UDOT roads. So we I think we could do that. I I sometimes, I do think it is helpful to be redundant with state code. And if the state changes it and they let's say they don't wanna regulate some of these things, maybe the city still does. So maybe we keep it in there.

Yeah. I think it's

a good clarification. Yeah. In fact, the the phrase, in addition to Utah state code as adopted by the city, it's like, well, it's it's an only in effect because it's we adopted state code, or is it in effect just because it's state code? Yeah. That is kind of a weird phrase. But yeah. Maybe yes. Legislative

attorney on that. Thanks. So similarly connected to that, in the definitions that you worked on, which I think is a was a big movement on the law fully operated. Still a little too vague for me. And, again, I think there's opportunity to defer to some state traffic code that emissions here that I think we as a group or a committee or something could figure out. But I think the answer to that first question I proposed might help with that one. K. Another suggestion is 11 o two point o four c one. It talks about room I would suggest that we just remove the phrase two or more right. Reason being is that the language above talks about that parking on along the street should be parallel and should be in the direction of traffic, and it's a long way street. And so I mean, just I don't think we needed to find two wheels or more or that it's even the right wheels because even though the motorcycle still has to park parallel on the street so far from the curb. So just clearly, the language release, my suggestion is to remove two or more right, and it just says the wheels of the vehicle are within 12 inches. That makes sense? I understand. I think

yeah. I I think the the reason for that is the attorney actually added double or more. I I think it's just to say that all of the right wheels, may maybe there's a better way to say it, need need to be 12 inches within the curve, not one wheel.

Yeah. Yeah.

Then there might be a better way to say it. But

Oh, pick up with rear duels?

Yeah. They, yeah, they added two they said two or they they suggested that Joel Joel, our attorney, suggested that or more because said, well, there's some vehicles that have more than two two wheels on the right setting. So

Yeah. Seems like it's just saying all the right wheels that'd be no matter how many except the motorcycle doesn't have right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I hear it.

It's And then just the the one the the 500 suggest is the only other one. So that that would be my marching orders between now and next week for Paul. So

you sent that I didn't check my emails. It's actually the notes out. Yep. Thank you. Did you send that to Levi or Wallace? Levi

and

combined copy to the council Okay. Okay.

To avoid.

And I I believe since it's been presented in the public meeting, but it's it's it's right for you to to admit that you sent out to all of us. We won't we won't call 9112. So I think thank you, Nathan. Another discussion on the motion to continue until the December meeting. K. Those in favor of the motion to continue, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed, We'll take it up again. We'll work on that and take it up again. Thank you, Levi. Thank you, counsel. Let's press right on into resolutions in 2535. This is city council meeting schedule. Yippee. Yippee. Yippee. For 2026. Cheryl, are you gonna do this for us, please? I I believe so. Thank you. I placed this the right link.

Maybe not. Okay. Is it this one? 92?

There are

a few meetings that coincided with conferences as per usual in the, Cache County School District events. I wanna point out particularly that on April 30, you know, sequentially, there should have been a meeting on April 30, but we skipped and post two meetings in May to facilitate facilitate discussion of the budget because we have a budget passed to get it July 1.

Mhmm. K. Thank you, Cheryl. This is available to you for first reading unless you choose to waive seven eighty, which and it's our it's a responsibility of ours to publish our anticipated schedule. So that's that's why we're doing this. Go ahead. If I can, Anne, we are anticipating

meetings for next year, so there shouldn't be any additional meetings such as we'll talk about at the end of this meeting. So we'll also look forward to that next year.

Right. But, I mean, we we can get this if we wanna do a second meeting, we could do a second meeting instead of Absolutely. Sure. Yep. Maybe I'll give a motion to approve anyways, I agree. K? There's a motion to there's a motion Okay. And a second a motion from Nathan, second from Aaron to approve the schedule as Cheryl presented and waive the second reading. So we end up with, I'm I'm sensitive because I'm the I'm the guy responsible. Feeling like a good cadence is about every three weeks we have a meeting. Wrap up from the last meeting, prepare for the next meeting, and then council has a chance to review the information packet. So that's kind of a three week cadence. We're at about three and a half weeks on average, fifty two weeks per year. However many meetings that we've started to count on 15. So if you're comfortable with that, I just point out the math. It's up to you. And we could as as Cheryl said, we can always add to the schedule. Any discussion? K. Anyone? I'm gonna go ahead. Nick, you haven't been canvassed yet, but you are, as according to Cache County, a successful representative for city council. So I think you successful candidate for city council. So you okay with this? I'm good with me. K. That's the other successful candidate if they were here. Maybe they're online or not. But no objection to voting? Seeing none, shall we call the roll for us, please?

Council member Lallerton, what would you vote? In favor. Council member Mann? In favor. Council member Mann? In favor. Will do. Three in favor and non opposed that

achieves the required court. Thank you very much. Alright. Let's move right to a public hearing on '25. Do you wanna suggest a quick recess? Yeah. I thought I gave you that opportunity. I wanted to ask you. If there's no objection, we'll recess until 08:00. Seeing no objection. O'clock. But I think

what 456. Oh, that is faster than

And the next item on agenda is a public hearing. This is a chance for our callers to weigh in on our weed, grass, and brush height restrictions. So, Levi, you probably have information for us. Is that correct?

Yes. So, yeah, just just as some background, and and and this was discussed a bit in a workshop in the last meeting. But so Cache County vegetation management, they they do really good job enforcing noxious weeds and and the presence of noxious weeds and, you know, eradicating them, make sure they don't spread. We we have but they're not necessarily concerned with height of weeds, and they're not concerned with nonnoxious weeds. So if they're not on the list, then they they're not going to eradicate them. Our we have another provision in our code on that speaks to the height of of weeds, grass, or brush. And it's proved to be very vague, very difficult to enforce. And so we well, what's in front of you feel like is is kind of a a balanced ordinance focused on health and safety of issues related related to weed height. And what we're proposing is that, in general, the height of of we weeds, grass or brush is limited to 12 inches with with some exceptions for agricultural production, natural growth, recreation areas such as Firefly Park. But in addition, in these areas, they the limitation would up of 12 inches would apply if it's within five feet of a public road, trail, or structure. This is partly to you know, within the case of a structure to for for fire safety issues. And then road trail has has more to do with with visibility and with and and just with not obstructing the rotor trail with any, you know, any overgrowth that might be happening there. So that is what is in this code, and then we've also included a reference to the wildland urban interface code for defensible space for affected areas. And there's a map that speaks to what what this is, and I I was interested to see that it overlaps almost exactly with, the restriction we have for fireworks and, basically, East Of S R 165. So in those areas, the the wildland urban interface code for defensible space, it goes it goes into detail, but it's actually, you know, more more restrictive than what we have here with, you know, keeping keeping weeds and grass to a limit when they're within close proximity to structures. And it depends on you know, there there's a lot of nuances there and, you know, to kinda Nate's point whether we should put this in the code or just reference the code. I I there there's a lot of nuances with it, and it speaks to the map and the zones that you're in because it's more restrictive in certain areas than in others. And so we we just felt like there's there's a good code in place, and we can reference that. And then we also wanted to add some clarity to remove cut weeds within twenty four hours. It it does say within our code that you need to remove them, but how long do we need to wait? And and we just wanted to make that more enforceable that it needs to be done within twenty four hours. These were the questions that we kinda posed in the last meeting. You know, what what's the pope purpose of the ordinance, the beautification, fire safety, these other things. And and in in general, the city council expressed focusing on health and safety issues. How high is too high? We're we are recommending 12 inches as as just the bare minimum to avoid the fire safety issues. A lot of cities are more restrictive than that, six inches. Some are four inches. We we felt like, really, 12 inches, there's not going to be a ton of cases, but but it gets at the ones that, you know, really are are overgrown. And then and then, again, this kind of what should be the exemption for agricultural production. The the these areas where it's close to the roadway, those are often the areas that you see a lot of the overgrowth because they're not cultivating that area. And so that that's become we feel like an issue, with visibility and and and potential, you know, fire safety issues. So so just keeping that that buffer there is what we're suggesting. Feel like disordinance. A big objective of staff is to make the ordinance more enforceable. So it's not every time we get a we get a complaint or we come upon a place, we have to exercise a ton of discretion of, oh, is this is this harboring insects or rodents? I don't know. Let me get a magnifying glass and see if I see any colonies in here. I mean, that that's kind of how it's written now. We wanna be more objective than that. So but definitely open to changes discussion on on these. We understand there's pros and cons to to these, you know, setting these lines in the sand. So that's what we've come up with. I can bring up the specific language, but that's just a kind of a summary of it.

Thanks, Levi. Questions from the council for Levi before we can move on here. Yeah. Quick

question. On b two, it talks about or no. No. No. Sorry. B one, it talks about natural roads such as park by park except within five feet, structure sidewalk, trail, or public roadway. Does that also include the fences, like, the outside edge of Fireflies Park? Do we do we cut down the weeds? I know that couple couple times a year, Rob and his crew will go and, like, knock down the weeds, like, along those sidewalks or different areas. Are we trying to also knock down the weeds like the the fence or the tall grass as they go over the fence on the south side of the park?

Yeah. Yeah.

The court is very, like there's a it's the one who's he lost space in the arms. It's the tall, grass, and hardwood raised space. That sounds real. It's pretty good. But

It is. Yeah. From from events. Yeah. Okay. And so that would be a good thing to talk about after, you know, when we turn it to the council. Alright. With that, then I will invite the public to tell us what they think about these changes proposed changes to, in control. All in the public hearing. Please. Thank you. Thanks, I just have a question.

We have a ditch that runs on the other side of our fence, and the weeds are always high. So what about the ditches as far as the maintaining of those?

It's

not. It's dangerous. It's happened now.

It it seems like the way this is drafted, it doesn't apply to features or fences, apparently. Right? I Okay. This danger.

Yeah. There's gonna be a lot of little situations we run into. Oh, what about that? But we're we're trying to at least draw a line in this in the sand to say, this is this is where it does apply. This is where there's an exception. Yeah.

Nothing from property owners? Come on, man. We depend on it. We come every every night. Okay. Thanks for calling. Okay. Then with that, I'll close public hearing and turn this item to the council for discussion and consideration. Again, it's our first reading. You couldn't waive second reading. Not you.

Garrett? Yeah. On section c, twenty to twenty four hours, We should extend that. We can point where it's at forty eight hours because I know Saturday is when a lot of people are working on projects, and we'll get it all done. Maybe they don't work on Sundays. I would put them in violation. I think fourteen hours is still insufficient. I need a little more flexibility. So I would mostly change that to fourteen hours

suggestion. Okay. And we can offer amendments on first reading or second. Lots of times, we save those for second, but I I'm I'm taking that as a motion to amend.

Okay. I'll give you a motion to remediate your section c

forty eight hours. K?

Okay. I'm not I'm not taking a motion to a minute. I'm trying to talk you into it, though. Thank you, Cheryl. Got ahead of myself. Well, then here, I'll I'll just

I'm gonna give you a motion to approve ordinance twenty five thirty three

with the amendment of section c being changed to forty eight hours. Okay. And is your motion to waive second reading or no? So so I'm clear. A motion to approve for first reading with the amendment of section c at 48. And second for me. Any other thoughts? Any any other research? Any other things for us to think about before we come to the second training?

I have some questions about enforceability

in process a little bit. Is that my fault for me? K.

I think this is great. Way more enforceable and clear. Steph did a really good job looking at it. I hope that helps. I think it will. My question is how do we currently we try to enforce situations like agricultural land?

Do it's little harder to knock on a door. Do we just mail

k. Thanks. Similar to that agricultural production or natural reclamation areas, I would encourage them to think about how easy that's going to be to determine if it's by zoning, if it's is it city out or racial layout? And the company would you you might have claims of natural growth for recreation and agriculture that maybe we're not thinking about definition wise in here. Maybe we should add a definition. Think about it. Right? Yeah. And and and part like, I have to see the public with that are full of, like, flowers and pollinating plants and stuff like that. Like, even those skips above this 12 foot height sometimes.

12 foot height? No. Yes. 12 foot. 12 foot weed pollinating.

Some of them are 12 feet, but just just saying.

I think we define reads are in in the meeting, but

those are some things that I would see it. Other problems for us on the day of the people who get set set in a meeting.

Yeah. I think we can def I think we should define that. And then if you wanna broaden that, you know, let us know, I guess, or or come up with a Yeah. I some other language if we wanna broaden it beyond I mean, natural growth recreation areas, we were thinking more public. It it could it could be private HOA, I suppose, that that could fall in there. But not in a a recreation area, I think, doesn't necessarily speak to private property. So if there's something on private property that you think there should be an exception for, maybe

maybe suggest it. Yeah. The one that I was thinking about specifically, I think, about the inspiration. Yeah.

Mhmm. Yeah. So right. But I wouldn't consider that a recreation area because no one can go on there. It could happen.

Like,

I think the suggestion is if you drive around in the

in the next couple of weeks in the.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's a good those are that's a good observation.

Aaron, do you think we need to the the case that you talked about with Firefly Beach Park and the the residents feeling that the long grass since we took the cows off have put snakes in in their backyard. Do we do we need something in the ordinance, or if have have you have I haven't. But have you talked to Rob perhaps about what it'd be like to to mow

five feet of that space next to the fence? I haven't asked that specific question. I think we do need to careful there if we're Fireflies.

Yeah. Let's let's and we probably wanna talk to somebody who knows something about Fireflies. So Right.

And I think Fireflies are probably the most sensitive aspect of that. Yeah. Yep. So.

And it might be difficult to mow because it's wet.

That too. Yeah.

Very wet. That's why there's fireflies.

Mhmm. Okay.

It's that in order for us and guess. Go 1,000. 12 times a year.

Goats are a hard to keep in place.

I think I think that is. I'm sorry. Go ahead. I actually tried getting a farmer to put cows on, and nobody was interested.

Oh, boy. On butterfly?

Yeah. Before before it got, like, really going Oh, good. One of the, you know, conservation recommendations was to keep cows on there.

You're talking about center city Center Park? No. No. Fire Park. Fire Park. Yeah.

There wasn't any farmers I could find that were willing to put their cows in the middle of a public park surrounded by some desert.

Because that's that's one of the options to help our U B's you Utah ladies' tresses continue to flourish just to embrace the City Center Park. Yep.

Keep the cows there.

Good luck fighting some.

But maybe we should have an exception for wetlands and riparian areas to your point. They're hard to cut. I don't know. Yeah. We have a lot of wet areas Yeah. And some of them are on private property.

But according to our conservation easement on City Center Park, we have to do something like mowing You have to cut it. Yeah. To protect the to keep the other grasses down so the lady's tresses could

flourish. What I'm hearing is we need to open the budget and buy some caps.

And a lot of events. And a lot of events. And then invite people to walk through the Herr because it is a city park. Yeah. I'd like to engage again deep in that. I'm not so sure. It might have been actually the first time I talked to Casey Snyder. About grazing? Yeah.

Alright.

Anything else before we vote on this for first greeting? I'm taking that as a note. So the motion before you is to adopt the first greeting, of the proposed amended ordinance and take it up for second reading on our next meeting. You all must think it takes us a long time to do stuff sometimes. Okay. We're deliberate. Any any opposition quoting? Seeing none of those in favor of the motion that send us the second reading, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? K. Most classes. Make it so. Thanks. Are we getting close? It's gonna be a short meeting this time. Good for us. Oh, did I jinx it to be today? Thanks, baby. Sweet. Yeah. Wow. Alright. Next item is to consider to consider acceptance of an annexation petition for further consideration for real property on a whole road.

Nick, Are you doing this for us? Yeah. And it does look like the applicants here as well if they wanna if you wanna give them a chance to add anything. So, yeah, there was an annexation petition filed from by by the Hansons for property that they own, just south of the city border. They're at about 5300 South Hollow Road. The annexate the annexation area is about 29 acres. This area is within the cities, and I'll I'll put it on the map or I'll put the map up on on the next page and give you a little more context where we're talking about. But just to give you some more information, the the area is within the city's annexation declaration boundary of the annexation policy plan, and it what they are proposing would be contiguous with existing city boundaries. Although, I wanna note that it's only contiguous by connecting the property via Hollow Hollow Road, on the right of way. I'll kinda show you how how that is. There is there's a property between the two, but we've we've our attorney has reviewed this, and he said it is it is the city council's discretion. If you do wanna approve this annexation, that you you could with the contiguity being along the right of way there. So that is that is an an option. But this, I guess, to remind you, this is the first step in the process. This isn't you the if you approve this, you're not approving the annexation. You're you you would just be accepting the petition for further consideration. But, anyway, this the this annexation would also create an unincorporated peninsula. We've gone through this process recently. As as you understand, this does require that the, the county agrees to this as well as as the city. So, we have, been in discussions at a staff level with Cache County on on this annexation, and we've we actually have a meeting set up next week to discuss this further. And, ultimately, it's it's gonna have to go to the Cache County Council to decide if they would agree to it. In general, the property is intended to be developed as low density residential, and they've requested rural estate zoning. Tonight, I would I would say that that that's not really the the topic of of what what zoning should be on there. This does need to go to planning commission for a recommendation on the zoning, and then the the zoning on the property would be decided if and when, you know, the annexation is is approved. And then this last one, you know, one one thing we consider with annexation is is utilities and adequacy of utilities. There is some concern about, water pressure sufficiency in the area. City engineer, Tom noted this. Just looking at the, water master plan and some of the findings in that, that that was that was one thing that that was, noted. So I'll I'll talk about a little later how that that could be addressed. So this is the area. And just to orient you, north is to the left. And so, it'll probably be easier to to tell maybe on the next screen, with with an aerial, which area we're talking about So that you can see the city boundaries are that that black line, just to the north of the Linda and Brad Blau Trust property. And and that Evaco properties is is the last one in in Nibley City. So the red area is is the annexation area that that we're talking about here. And so as as you can see, they're they're proposing to annex the a portion I I think this version has a half road for Hollow Road. The county has actually expressed that they would like or at least a representative of the county has has expressed they would like it as a full the full road be annexed. So we could we could discuss that as well with the applicant. But either way, the the annexation of the road is really what makes it contiguous to the the city's boundary. It's just kind of there's a there's kind of a narrow section there that that, on both sides, it would be unincorporated. And on both sides of the road, it'd be unincorporated, and then and then it would go down to to this area and to the south.

Can you show us the Hiram City bound?

Yeah. The Hiram City boundary is that black boundary to the south and west. Yeah. So you can see it goes into kind of the La Grande Johnson instruction there right there. So that that's all Hiram City. So staff's recommendation is to accept the annexation for further consideration, but with the conditions that the created unincorporated peninsula needs to be approved by the cash by Cache County, by by the council that's their process. And then and then the applicant we're we're also suggesting the applicant pay the cost of running the city's water model to evaluate the adequacy of water pressure in the proposed annexation area. We feel this is a good stage to impose this requirement, so that the city can look at it further before coming back and and recommending this for final approval just to see, what, if any, need mitigating measures need need to need to happen with the water system in that area to to serve, to serve this area with Nibley City, water.

Does the has Tom, our engineer, estimated the cost for that?

If you were here, you could probably tell you. I I I don't have it off on hand. I don't know if you Or at Assurria. Yeah.

He told me about 900 feet tonight.

900

feet. Water master plan? How much the cost for the water? The cost for the water? Yeah.

And who's Trevor? Okay. Thanks for coming. Appreciate it. Do you have anything to add? Okay. Appreciate it. If if you if there are questions that come up as we talk about it, we'll we'll ask you.

Alright, Izad. That's it. Ready? That's all I've got. Yeah. To you.

So

In your discussion of the county, we rejected the 1 Ridge and 1500 West. So

what would be your thoughts on this? Because it is similar, but it's just a road.

And they can see which way it would.

Yeah. The I what what we've heard so far, and this is just through email, is is they'd be supportive of it if we took the whole road that's adjacent. That and that's just from public from the public works director there.

Not the

half of the road width, but the full The full the full width of Hollow Road all the way down to the Yeah. Southern edge of this property.

And if you don't mind me asking, Garrett, while you're it's your question. But do you mind me asking the to the left of the Blau property? Right? That's the county

peninsula that would be formed? No. You're there. I know. I'm just so that I can point out. Okay. Or I guess I could point with this too, this really nifty. Ouch.

You burnt a hole of the street. Are you talking here? Probably wants Nibley City to or or or is that section of the road to the east side west side of the property already in Nibley?

You're talking here? No. That's why No. So this is this is Nibley City's boundary here. Right. And and we actually don't have that right of way for a section in Nibley, at least from what we could tell. So it would bring it would bring that section of Hollow Road into the city and then on down to the south Okay. It's what it's what the county wants, and and it's actually necessary to at least do the half road so it would be contiguous. But but the county wants

to give us the full road. Okay. Yeah. Like, it seems like, Eric, your question on 1500 was there was a long section of road that's gonna be nimbly to the north and nimbly to the South and unincorporated county

in the middle. Yeah. So it's a little diff I guess it's a little different than than that. I guess there there is a short section where it would be city and county in the middle, and that's right. That one point. Point. That little point. It's a few

I suspect the county won't, like, maintain that little You you but we'd probably smell plow. So It's pretty hard to Do we show them? Jump a snow cone.

Yeah. Our understanding is it it's it's half road.

Yeah. So you're doing half road where they're saying, hey. We'd want the full road. The county

yeah. The county the county expressed it. They want the full road for the whole thing.

But is that that longer portion of that little tail Yeah. Is that is that Evelco?

Yeah. Mhmm.

But So I just right now. But that's already in the city. This is, but not the right of way. Yeah.

Yeah. Ah, thank you. That helps me a lot. So the right of way, the annexation petition that we're looking at would include annexing the right of way next to the LCO. Correct. Yeah. Okay. Which is unincorporated, obviously, right now. County. The county, I think, probably learned from 8 West that it's not good to let cities annex right up to both sides of the road, and then the county gets stuck with the road that's in the middle. They want roads in cities. Makes sense to me.

Yeah.

Thank you. My my own question is that, you know, have you talked to Blouse to see if they've reached the petition, Linux, or something? And why don't you come to the if if you have a chance if you're willing to answer that question, let's do it at the mic for a week. Yeah. We're we're one of the most popular YouTube channels Yeah. Going. So Yes.

The applicant has approached us, and they've got back just a second.

And you're Lance Anderson. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Who said representative?

Nathan? Just a question you you don't have to answer, but to think about is

if

I know we have a zoning map, but if rural states is what you actually want to do, or if some of our other zones like our to something you wanna consider in this area, I think I would be lonely. I don't know about what I'm telling, but they'll Paulson would make that recommendation, but

just kinda curious. No. I think r a works. And r just kind of the shape of the property,

it would help with r two a, you know, the average just because you get a you know, some maybe some funky lots because of the shape. And we also have a canal, you know, that it goes and it drops down on the riverbed. So, yes, RTA would actually Manifasheen thought that might

help us a little. We're not looking to get, like, guidance. We just want good bots.

You know? Get one to two acre

bots. That's what we're trying to get. Send. So Well, it was

The States is two acres. Rural estates is two acres. It's two acres. Marlon is the one. Yeah.

I think in our one, it the Aviso would help. I think the can't remember which is your front end to our front one. One thing that's tricky was the RE, the 200 feet of frontage kinda creates a it's a little challenging as a depth of that. What's the I forgot your frontage. Yeah. Your schedule requiring some house and Yeah. I don't think that's a it's reinforced. I

think, you know, ability to recruit some of that.

It's a the 200 feet of frontage is a little challenging on on REE. What is r one?

We the right The frontage, I think it's one fifty. But Yeah. Is it? R one's 200? It doesn't go down.

I haven't done, like, what's your does that change it from each?

There is flex there it there's language that gives flexibility with frontage as well in that. So the Yes. My understanding is it does. It doesn't allow an open space subdivision.

Is the cluster mission used or is it just

It's a it's a standard subdivision. It it's the it's the plan the planning commission reviews it. It's it used to be a conditional use. It's no longer a conditional use. Okay.

Yeah.

K. Now I think those are.

I mean, you

get a nice lot of the app. You want to feed it because of the path and pushing it to do. But if we can do the question, you know.

So I certainly would never tell counsel what to do. Pick your bows carefully based on the expectation that might prevail zoning on this property if we accept the annexation petition that if we annex it that matches the rest of the folks that live there.

Dangerous. No. I understand that. That's one of the one question I hear you mentioned, I believe, I get asked one question is, do we go and request that at the finance of the petition? If it's accepted, do we go at that time?

Okay. Yeah. Say, we're gonna apply for something that'll be you should definitely be accurate in that notice it. But Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. Anything else from the council? Is there opposition to voting on accepting this petition for annexation?

We need Opposition with the voting. Motion?

I'm just in a hurry. I have a motion.

I have a motion to accept the annexation petition for consideration for the ex for marshals.

Motion. Mhmm. And second, to accept the annexation.

Same clarification on that includes the staff recommendations.

Litigation. Yes. Sorry. With with that recommendations about the water pressure. Sorry. Whatever they ask. I'm

gonna ask general consent that the motion and second include the staff

recommendations.

Any objections? K. That's the motion then with the staff. Now we have a motion. Any objection to voting? Seeing no objection. Those in favor of accepting the annexation petition, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? K. We will do it. Thanks. Appreciate you coming out. Appreciate you. Alright. Let's do a workshop discussing utility rates for e tags, accessory dwelling units.

And, Justin, are you gonna talk first? Yeah. I'll do my best to cover this. Talon and Amy were really the driving force behind this when they got looking into what was going on with some things and realized that we weren't exactly following our current code when it comes to how much we were talk charging utility fees for detached accessory dwelling units. And so they came to me and said, hey. We're a little unsure on what we should be doing here. And I said, well, what we really need to do is get with the council and get the council's direction and guidance on what they want to happen, and then we'll bring back an amended code that reflected that. So currently, as it sits, the code is very clear that the detached accessory dwelling unit should be charged a base rate for water and a sewer rate. And but none of the other utilities are mentioned or discussed. And so they said, well, are we supposed to do all of them? Just those two. So we really are just bringing this for you guys to give us some direction on what you would like us to maybe investigate, questions you may have. You can look at it a couple different ways. You could look at it as, you know, it's another another dwelling unit and should be charged to the base rates. We could look at it as a step trying to be in affordable housing space and not charge them. So, really, it's the options are kind of open and really whatever you'd like us to do. They they had the idea to charge half of a base rate for the accessory dwelling units, and I will willingly admit this really isn't a big financial issue at the moment. I believe we have eight of these in the city. Now these eight people might be pretty upset when we set change their utility bill to add half base rates and EMS fees as well, but there's only eight of them. But we feel like we should get a good policy in place on what we would like to see happen in the future as there becomes more and more of these dwelling units constructed within the city. So am I clear so far? Great. And so currently, what are we charging? Nothing? Nothing. K. And and that's we're not following our own code. And that was on accident of just kinda one of those examples of the water not getting to the end of the road where we had lots of discussion years ago with city council, but it never made it all the way back to the staff that was pushing the button to make the utility bills calculate the way they were supposed to. And so that's my fault. I do apologize about that. But we are where we are today.

Yes.

Right. Yes. I like

machine. I mean, they are separate units, but do they use all the same I mean, when they use the same garbage and everything, it's not original homeowner?

Or did it really actually need an additional can? Well, I don't know what kind of output we use to get. So So so that one's a little bit different that they decided not to put charge charge for garbage can because the the original homeowner could very simply add another can cheaper than you could consider that in the house and order that house of its own can. So they left that one off the chart, but did include stormwater fee, nine one one communication fee, and EMS fee. So if you were to cut those in half, you would essentially be charged an additional $44 for an external or excuse me, a detached accessory dwelling unit. Excuse me. To their to their to to the utility bill of the primary residence. It's not gonna have its own account. It's just an additional fee to cover those base fees for those additional and, essentially, it it's its own little house. And so Yeah. We do a similar thing where we reduce impact fees for what is considered smaller than what a full size house would be. So this is in a similar vein of still charging something, but reducing it and not considering it a full sized house or ERU.

I guess, probably, as

aren't they connected to the existing Monarch Sewer? So any of their uses would be paid for and just use of logs. That's why we're talking base, Half of the base would be not half of the metered

charge, just the base rate. Yep. Meter would be included in the and but then you get into a little bit of a mess where only paid half of the base rate, So do we add in a normal base rate, there's, like, 5,000 gallons included. So if they're paying for another half, do they get another two and a half? So it does get a little

messy.

It is messy.

Just math, though. Yeah. It's just math. And, really, the key there and and this is a problem. Like, I don't mean to make light of it, but the person that creates and inputs the creates the account the first time has to do it correctly. Because if they don't, it's and couldn't it cannot be caught for a long time through normal reporting, trying to figure out audits and things like that. It's kinda hard to find those mistakes when you're dealing with 2,500 homes and, you know, more accounts than that. It so those little mistakes, eventually, can add up and cause problems. So we don't we we like to keep everything as simple as possible. We like to keep it as basic as possible so that we don't get those kind of errors, but we we do have to do that in some case. For example, some of the townhouse units have six units in it. So they pay six base rates, so we have to calculate 5,000 times six is what they get. They don't get usage until they go over that. So we're already doing some of that. We try to limit it as much as possible.

Well, the easiest

for is that?

Yeah. I mean, the easiest thing would be just not worry about $44 a month

and just forget it. You know? I mean, we have the usage and pieces of water, sewer.

Water. Water. Not sewer. Yeah.

Yeah. That's the simplest for sure whether that, you know, is I mean, as far as work for staff, that's the simplest. What's the simplest? Just not charge any use any sort of utility fee.

Just delete eight.

Doing what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. And we and and, again, the reason we brought it to you is because it says very clearly in the code that they will be charged a sewer and a water base rate. But that's the only bills fees that have mentioned.

So that makes sense to me. I mean, we we thought that was the right thing to do when AVUs came along. I think ADUs are a fantastic idea. We we talked to me. Affordable housing started when I first heard about ADUs, I said, well, this is, like, gonna hold a well market for structure. And where they have been more popular in other communities than they have been in Nibley, the answer is no. Is there two certainly, the second family or individual living in ADUs. Probably a lot a lot not a lot more than a large family in big house.

I have a few neighbors asking about ADUs.

Good. I think there's people thinking about it. So I mean, we've made it about as easy to put an ADU on your property as I think we could. Although, this would detract from it a little bit A little bit. To add a utility bill of $44. I mean, I feel like on the water, usages aren't able to pay for anyway. But on the sewer,

that's not per volume, like, the water is. Maybe I have maybe it's half sewer rate for me to help with that. It made more sense to me than the water above. It's a workshop. I'm just thinking out loud.

And maybe we think about what why do we have base rates in the first place. Right? It's it's like an offset that's charged for the service being available to have pipe with pressurized clean water. That's that's the base rate for water plus a small amount of base rate for the so so that base rate needs not only cover what's what's what's being used, but also the infrastructure behind that to drill wells and put water into tanks and maintain pipes to get it to the house. Same on sewer rates to pay the Logan City metered rate that goes through our lift station because we don't meter sewage, but Logan City does. And to have have the service available My my my only it wastes trouble I'm having in my mind is they're connected to the existing water sewer. So it's not technically a new

connection. And we're using it already in place for our sewer lines from the home from the our current home. That's where I'm having, I guess, the issue of Yeah. Fair enough. Charging anything for that.

Yeah. I'm not That makes sense. Just a quick setting up. Internal ADUs, it's pretty clear in state code that we're not allowed to charge impact fees. We're not allowed to charge more for internal. Mhmm. Detached seems to be a little

more open. I actually like I wouldn't like it if that's became more popular than the normal.

So the the eight that we have, are they internal or external? External. Yeah. We have no idea. We have more internal for sure. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

That's good work. Yeah. Honest.

Yeah. Yeah. I I mean, I think Garrett thinking they said that, like, it's already connected to the home. There's not extra infrastructure being put in place. Other than just, like, helping put money back into the pot to help taper the services that it provides. So I could've been in towards the double charge.

Yeah. I will just throw out there again. It really is such a minor issue right now. We're really talking about in the future if this gets big. Right. Like, what impact would it have? And it's gonna be hard to in the future. Right. Yeah. And start toppers and people. Get it right? Yeah. Correct. Yep. So all just thoughts. We're happy to do take whatever direction you guys would like us to go. We could do research. We can look up more. I know Town's done quite a bit. Whatever you guys like us to do to help you make the decision, we're happy and willing to do.

I'll get through again. We kinda started on currently, for instance, with townhomes or even condominiums,

take all those individual units,

times that by base, and that's how we begin. And that's how they're built Correct.

And metered. Yeah. And and well, so the issue was when townhouse this is a never ending circle that I have been banging my head against the wall for the last fifteen years is how to properly meter a multifamily complex. Is it one meter? And do you charge one two inch impact fee, or do you charge an impact fee for each door? Like, it it's one of those things that just just it's continually debated and continually wrapping around, and then you can splice it up a million different ways. There is no correct answer. We need to just pick one and stick with it. Now current staff, I've had this discussion, like like, again, all you for years now. And current staff, we finally we do everything we can now to supply an individual meter for every single unit. For the biggest reason is the ability to be able to shut off for nonpayment. And some of those townhouses, we have no ability to shut off. If somebody refuses to pay for the service, we've got no way to shut them off. We can't shut off all six of them. And so we've gone to every unit has a meter. Now there are some there are some downsides to that. There really are. But we've decided that. We're sticking with that. And right now, that's what we do. Each townhouse gets its own one inch meter. It's charged a reduced impact fee of 72%. I can't remember what the reduced impact fee is. But then they pay a full base rate for each unit and $15.50. And that bill typically goes to the owner of the townhouse and the usage if sorry. If they have more than one meter or, excuse me, more than one unit on a single meter, the usage gets billed to the HOA. Mhmm. Because that introduces a whole new mess of is it the HOA? Is it the property owner? So, really, we're trying to just nail down and get it set on what it is. So at least we know what it is. We don't have to make all those billing changes. We don't want ten years to be like, well, that guy got off for half price for the last ten years. It's it's getting messy fast. I'm kinda rambling now. Sorry.

Can I maybe bring up another issue? I think one issue with ADUs is I although I think the purpose of ADUs is to address affordable housing, I think a lot of them are just guest houses a lot of times. People build them, and they don't they're not even occupied very often. We haven't had anyone we have this provision in the code that allows a rebate for an ADU if they rent it at a certain rate below, you know, that it's affordable. No one no one has taken us up on that. I'm kinda surprised.

That's what we paid a impact fee. Impact fees. Yeah.

But I I think just anecdotally, I'm hearing some of them are just they built them, and they're just a guest house, basically.

Do you believe that, please? Right? It's like over a couple years ago. Yeah. Right. Right. Right. If they were affordable housing.

And no one has no one has approached us about that. We've we've made it clear when they've when they've been permitted and everything. But, anyway, just something else to think about with ADUs is if someone builds it, it doesn't necessarily mean they're renting it out and someone's living there. Right. And they're on and they're typically on the same meter, so you're gonna pay them two base rates just because they have something sitting there. I don't know.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'm headed that way.

Yeah. Well, we'll bring back what what I'm hearing is we'll bring back proposed language to make it clear there will be no utility fees for and

detached. Thank you.

Yeah. No no utility. Oh,

with any house.

I we don't have any of these, but I assume that's different if they have a their own meter because we or or not.

That's a great question. None of them have I think it

I think it's

if if they have their own meter, they have to have an account. They have a They they have a basic the whole of me. Right. Mhmm.

That would make

sense. You mentioned that. A lot of holes in your pot mainline. Each service line from the main from the main to the house is a potential leak, and most of our water leaks and issues that we deal with are connections that piece. Like, I I was out last week with the streets department. We patched it. One of them we had so that is the biggest. You and you have to they can only be so close because then you you the entirety of the pipe if you put more holes in. So it's just more of I mean, it's way easier to take care of one two inch line than it is six one inch lines in the long run. But, again, you're getting one two inch impact fee or six one inch impact fees.

Is circles and circles and circles. Area. This time.

I mean, that's my main. Yeah. And so, again, that's what we've decided to go because we feel like that's the lesser of most evils at the moment. But the longer we can stick to that, the better for the future.

Especially the other cities that

Oh, yeah. A little further down the one in I've had discussions with cities. I've had discussions with HOAs. I've had discussions with developers. This is our multifamily. Yeah. On how to meet our multifamily and what's the right way to do it. Just everybody's got their own opinion. HOA people. Well, I shouldn't even go into what but, you know, lots of different things. One of the problems that I thought was interesting that was brought to us is that if you is it sorry. You're good. Tell me, Mike. Okay. If you do bill the HOA, HOA fees are included in loan qualification. And so if you have those utilities in the HOA fee, there was eliminating some people's ability to even get along because of just going over the whatever calculations they do for income and HOA fees and all those kinds of things. I thought that was, like, probably the only really good argument that was made or brought up through all that. Otherwise, it was just, wow. It's a lot easier for me if you do this. Wow. It's easier for me if you do this. And then, honestly, I've been long enough to all work together. I can't even do a squat. But I just was so frustrated and just sat down with our team. I said, alright. Here's all the things we could go. There's pros, just cons, and we decided to go with one of Gene's wherever possible.

How many do we have before we start? Yeah. I'm looking after that. Basically, couple couple dozen.

That's it. Yeah. That we had all.

Well, you have the Easy Vegas. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is the technology that we are restricted to, and then we use resources we have. Yeah. So maybe that's just.

So if I build maybe you plan to rent it, it is in my interest to do

that as a property owner. But I don't know where we force things. So let's do we force people to do?

That's actually a question I should investigate. I can't I think we our inner code, don't we talk about it has to be connected to the main house and not We allow the option we allow the option now. We didn't we used to say it

it has to be, but now we allow the option. They they have to pay a 100% of the impact fee instead of 50%. Okay. Thank you. With a separate meter. Yeah. Sorry. For the for the separate meter, they they would have to pay the full impact fee instead of half.

One inch standard down to me. It's separate meters. It's fine.

No. But we incentivize it

through through that. Oh, we do.

Condos are tartar. You can't have a one inch meter for each condo because they're stacked. Yeah. So there there's there's a number. I can't remember where we draw the line and say, okay. We now have to go to one two inch meter. Here's what gets really messy because we still charge an impact fee per door now, not meter. So they'll still pay an impact fee. It is reduced, not a full home size impact fee, if you will, But they still pay each pay the impact fees, and then we have to figure out the metering and who gets billed, who pays for all those bills. Because this is way nicer for us just to see one bill. I mean, to I mean, think of Ridgeline. If we could send one bill to the HOA and if the HOA's problem would collect, I mean, that would be fantastic.

And if they don't, we'll shut off the whole Exactly.

Yeah. So there again, I I mean, you go down rabbit hole after rabbit hole. There's not a perfect answer. There's not a great solution. We have a policy in place that we're following now. If you'd like us to hash that out more, we're happy to do that, but we feel pretty good about it. We're just looking in this case, talk about these detached things because we noticed in the code.

So, I mean, I I think it's good for us to think about where we are on the condos and townhomes and multifamily attached housing. But an ADU is one lot. Right? It's it's two dwelling units on one lot. Mhmm.

It's one owner. Might be three.

Yeah. I mean, you could let your kids live there for no charge. We could you could do whatever you want. But it's it's it's a single lot. It's two dwelling units on one lot. So I think that helps me say, well, yeah, there's the stuff we do on townhomes and everything else, and I know how complicated that is. But we're still talking about one person owns that lot, And it doesn't have to be unoccupied anymore. Get rid of that too. So I'm I'm saying, yeah. I'm kinda thinking we just don't charge the utility fee for a detached AT ADU. That's that's where I am right now. I'll think about it tomorrow.

Okay. But and you should hear it from other council members. Yeah. Well, right now, that's what I'm planning on doing is bringing back an ordinance with that direction. So between now and when that gets here, if you don't feel that way and want to talk more, please come talk to us and talk about it. And, obviously, you can do whatever you want with it and let me bring it to you, but I will bring that back to you.

Greg, will you answer a question for us? Sure. If we you don't have to. What what does the real estate community see in terms of detached ADUs? Are they and if you come up with if you don't mind, you don't have to answer it all, but you're you're our real estate expert here tonight.

As far as whether or not we like them, we like them. They're an option for a property owner. It is that owner has chosen to to do an external ADU with their property, and so we would support them. I as you've seen in Nibley, I think probably one of the things that you're going to notice is the detached ADUs may be coming in the future at a larger rate, but your internal ADUs are what's really gonna happen. Okay. Mhmm.

Yeah. That's the the question I was getting at. What what do you all see Internal. Internal. Internal. Any external. So eight and Nibley doesn't seem like very many, and it's not. But you're saying that won't change real fast?

External, probably not internal. I think you might be very surprised at how many you actually have as you start time. Right. And, I mean, we're a college town. I hate to say this term, but it's stack and pack and rack them to get kids in. And so

that's what it is for some natural born kids.

But with the with externals, I don't see a rush coming. On internals, I I think it's already here. And Okay. Where real estate or or association would come in is we like the idea of the internals and externals because for particularly for aging owners, the internal external ADU allows for an option for them to keep in their unit for longer with having someone maybe able to help them on-site.

Yes. So I'm gonna live in the Gilpasture eventually.

As far as as far as externally, the the association growth support. Okay. Thank you,

Thank you, Greg. What's that?

There's one. Nick Nick Nick's up here, Nick.

If you wanna get to the club club. Oh, yeah. He's gonna have paper stuff. You're you're asking about my opinion on the rate? Yeah. Whether we should this very topic, should we be charging a utility fee for external ADUs?

I I

like your comment. It's on one site, one unit, one logs. If the if the ADUs connected to the main, it's not a separate meter.

They don't need to complicate it, frankly.

And and to Levi's comment about is the, you know, the nature of allowing an ADU in Italy is to open up another opportunity for some version of affordable housing. Right? Maybe that's just another olive branch from the city even though it's $45, right, Justin?

Times eight. Yeah. So far. So far. Logistics per staff, easier based on just what we talked about. Yeah. Thanks, Nick. Feel good about that, Justin? Yeah. I got you, Justin. Change your mind by the time you bring it back. Please don't. Alright. Let's follow that. It's complete and finish up with counsel and staff reports. You're not done with it. It's alright. Mhmm. K. So let's let's move to the last item on the agenda, council and staff reports. Garrett? Okay. I'm gonna start with Nathan. Yeah. It's really.

I have been building and getting getting more engaged as usual as possible under West. And I'm finding that many of the recent conversations have been over frustrations with construction and the way the bike lane has been used both by city staff, construction people, and randos. Everything else is fine. They're just frustrated to see a bike lane not being protected as a bike lane. And so something as we get closer to kind of and continuing to make decisions on there is, you know, what is needed for us to be able to plow it, do our job with service it? And then can we do other things that will even more so eliminate vehicle travel as in cars?

Yeah. And we talked about some of those things. Yeah. But I think it's positive that people want to Yeah. Protect the protected pipeline. Yeah. Let's look at that as honestly.

And a lot of good suggestions that I got from Citizens Direct Board. So Who's

What are we close to being done? I know Tom's not here. Are we close to having all that instruction done? Yes. We're close. Yeah.

I think Tom said two weeks today. Yeah. Maybe maybe two more weeks the next meeting.

Full

disclosure. Plus fucking management.

I think we're in December. So Yeah. Correct. I think that's a good time to address those issues as well. So I'll I'll forward stuff to that and even the council. I think many people. That's it.

Thank you, Nate. Eric?

I've driven over the Lower Mountain Islands multiple times. They're not they they don't.

So they're more pleasant. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I have workers at at the corner of Midland Parkway in 12 West. It probably is this hallway this hallway on 12 West. The crosswalk has some green painting on the pedestrian crosswalk here. What are the green delays?

Phase one was a a good standard. Really? They put phase two. I don't

know. I agree. Maybe bigger. It is. Yeah. Still with the.

Yeah. It's it is what's the past, originally. I wish if not, then it was it was but based on that, I

I was reading my utility bill as a pat loan, and the message maybe Sherilyn would be able to answer this best. The message in the utility bill paragraph, I'm not paying the road because I should have brought it. But it's something I didn't understand about billing.

Do you have one you wanted to go on? Nope. I mean,

I my thoughts were that some of our bigger parts than Heritage or Manor start there.

Well, now since you mentioned, I I'm surprised driving around on the UFC. There's a fair amount around, more than I thought.

Yeah. No.

Anyway, yeah, I will hear them.

So their

garage playground is probably good. That's where the most small kids are probably gonna be. Yeah. And small kids would love to take those out of them. So

I think I'm looking in my utility, though. Well, I'm looking at my online advertisement. Okay. I got a message. I don't know if it's the same as yours. Do you want me to sort of read and stuff?

It's that little paragraph in the middle, like, that message.

Happy Thanksgiving. We're thankful for each of you that all you do to serve our community. We wanted to let you know that we've recalculated That's it. Equal pay this month. Yep.

Yep. It's okay. Some residents do an equal payment amount on their bill, and it's recalculated annually because if there's a a deficit in the amount they've paid in the past year or too much, those have to be recalculated.

But Oh. So it's it's a way to have the fees assessment utility bill of each and every that you asked me or Jackie. I see. Great. I think And then I understand. So the new amount would be reflected on this bill. Okay. Not late. Yeah. Letting people know that that you feel there would be equal pay as of this. I see. Okay. Which for the record, we don't really love. We don't

really push or advertise to people anymore. That's an option. We'll do it. But that has cost and price. Now, I mean yeah. There's so you can do autopay, which is just we whatever your bill is, we take it out of your account, like your credit card every month. And you have or your checking account. Yeah. However you set it up to be paid, that's autopay. And then we have the equal pay, which is just the calculated number. You pay that number every single month, but your bill is is properly tracked. And you're either ahead a little or you're buying a little. And at some point, we have to rebalance, and that's what we do. Our credit. Yeah. And like I said, we don't love it anymore. We it's a custom issue. So we those that were on it, we're not gonna kick them off, but we don't yeah. We're not sending it up in banners. The it's an option early.

So it's the water bill that fluctuates through the year. Right? It's not a good bill.

Yeah. Okay. Most of the details have equal pay option. With this For budgeting. Yeah. Makes it easy to budget people.

Oops. Right here. Yeah.

Yeah.

Thanks for your help. So I'm out of the test. I haven't yet. I tried to drive it

in the last week with a little gear. I wanted to see

how pumpouts, you know, the changes, how they work, and there's still cones and everything around them. And I'm almost gonna take it out. My random

stop sign.

I'm not sure if it looking very hard. Maybe it's for its construction zone.

Yeah. Real quick on that. We've we've had we've noticed that problem similar to the tenth wise. Probably people we've we changed the direction of the stop sign. We've put up EMS signs. I've asked Tom to see if he can get a flashing stop sign. We might put more stuff in. At which? Yeah. Nibley Park Avenue in 12 Watts. Because Nibley Park Avenue used to be the third. Mhmm. Now twelfth is the So it's a chain it's a change in traffic pattern, and people are struggling.

I wanted to hear that. We can't keep that was coming in, making an attorney.

And just caught him on the side of the line and they came by and do that. They were they were they were definitely speed aiding. They came calling a ex I don't know. Guys, Saul would not stop. Expert and soft banking. He would've taken me out. Yeah.

What the heck? So Tom is working. We would like to have something. Yeah. I'm I'm seeing if we can get those, how fast we can get in here.

The flash inside of one second.

Oh, really?

So we we changed the Yeah. On the joint flashing one, which we didn't put it there, but we didn't have one for the other side. Oh, really? It went. Mhmm. It went. Mhmm.

I think they don't know how to read instructions, like you'd say, or something.

Exactly. So

I don't know if it's a way to read some of them more clear or it's just a beast of people just don't pay attention. I think we should.

You know, I spoke with Tom about it. Actually got a hold of the resident to say, if you know who those who who who suffered damage to her cars, they can turn out a claim. The person who that it wrote last did not know who suffered damage to the first.

It's like I have a resident who called me on Monday about twelve West. Got a new song in under Nibley. I was passing through the

Nibley Parkway. Park Avenue. Park

Avenue. I think. Not to be confused with Nibley Parkway. Nibley Parkway Avenue.

It's a street.

Nibley Parkway Avenue.

Yeah. And he was just he already commented how much she likes. We call it the wall, but that barrier he said he has noticed living there how much that is slow traffic can. He he he doesn't really care about the bow mounts. He's like, hey. My main guy doesn't he's kinda neutral on that, but he loves the wall. He says, the narrative of that, he has noticed

the major slowdown for traffic. And so he just said, have you do it, please? You're talking about the Jersey Barrier. Right? Yes. He called it the law. That's not something No.

And he just said, whatever you do, please don't get rid of those. So I just thought I'd be back positive. That's all I got. Thanks, Derek.

Okay. Stu's going to pair Stu today. We're talking about

and they're inviting us. And it was fun to X enable, and I've done my stuff set up chat so that we can get a call if we already know.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for coming. We do it's it's fantastic for the staff to see you guys in that sort of

So bring it to me. Yeah. So I don't wanna be left out and not comment on. So I got a high five from the Ira mayor for The speed limit being raised to 35.

Yeah.

Because it's been 25 for the long time. And so instead of having he's very happy about it being 35. I explained it'll be really interesting to see what speeds go to speed data goes to with 35 mile an hour speed limit. So Yeah. And I said, by the way, we're gonna use your side of Southwest South Of 3200 Cell as a control

experiment. Just bias the experiment.

I didn't tell Eric. Right? You just did because they're all what to do. I didn't say it was adult. I didn't say it was a controlled experiment. Okay. I do have a couple, please. Maybe you've received the messages about Trail at about thirty four hundred south. A large number of citizens signed a petition. For me, there was a lot to unpack and all that. So I didn't write a response. Instead, I offered a meeting. And I just received from mister Jackson, so I think he's the guy I'm talking to, appreciation for a a a chance to meet on that. And I invite as many of you as you want on November 17, 06:30 or later, to meet with residents to chat. And if it's more than if it's a quorum, we have to look at a meeting. But I think this would be a good one for us to get together on instead of dealing with the coming shelters. So You must have got it. There's a but the proposal on the master plan, they don't want.

Right.

I I do wanna mention on that note that they have submitted an application, and it will be we will go through the formal process.

Oh, to modify the draft master plan? Yeah.

Yeah. So it it's gonna go to it's gonna go to planning commission in December. Okay. You can I mean Thank you? You can have you can have the meeting, but it would probably get to city council in January because we can't get it till December 11

Okay. For planning commission and then So I'm gonna change your request then. I mean, he's got that. Proposal goes to the city council after it goes to the planning commission appropriately, I don't want to have a city council meeting on the seventeenth. So that doesn't mean that two of you and maybe a newly elected because you don't count yet. Well, you count a lot in a minute. But maybe two of you would like to join me in that meeting, not seventeenth at 06:30 or later. I have a third

time. Nate, have we confirmed our Canvas in meeting yet?

Monday at twelve?

This month?

No. The seventeenth. Sorry. Monday at seventeenth. You already have a meeting scheduled.

No. I don't do I want to have a city council meeting on this before it goes through proper channels with the proper if they've made an application Mhmm. I believe we should go through the process appropriately and not circumvent the planning commission, for example. I mean, planning commission chair for.

So yes, Cheryl. May I suggest your subjective, mister Spalding?

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I was going to.

Yeah.

So that might be interesting. Number two, opportunity for more meetings. The next fire district board meeting is going to just before the board meeting, there's going to be they're calling it. We decided to call it I didn't suggest it. Fire district one zero one. A chance for elected officials to learn what the crap is going on with the Cass County Fire District. I'm using a nice word. Not that it's a bad idea. I'm not biasing anyone on board or against it. I'm I'm on the board. I'm a member of the steering committee on board, but if if you're in, it it seems to very likely change in terms of