Nibley City Council- 01/08/26

Thanks for coming out on what might be an actual winter night and we all appreciate that. As is our custom, we have a member of council given opening ceremonies uh kind of thing and so it it's my turn tonight and so I want to share this with you. Uh, last night I attended a Wellsville City Council meeting because I wanted to listen to public input as the Wellsville City Council considered moving forward uh, with joining Emily in a South Cache recreation district. What was said in that public hearing will be for another night at another agenda. But what I did hear at that meeting is something I've also heard in Nimble, and that was a complaint from Wellsville residents about the failure of Wellsville City keep their citizens informed as to what they're working on. Now, no surprise, we've also heard that in Dibly City, and I think it's rather universal. Uh Mike is still here, member of the city council from Logan City, and I won't ask him if he ever hears that complaint. Uh but the Walesville City Council offered the same kind of response that we offer in NLP city and that is listed the ways that people can stay informed as to what their city governments is working on websites, newsletters, uh Facebook pages. And this is where I'm going to turn this into a public service announcement following up from a letter, sorry, an article in uh the most recent newsletter. And that is to encourage you, beg of you, bleed of you to make a community goal in 2026 to stay informed with what City is working on. And the public service announcement part is to follow, if you would please, the instructions in the newsletter. Go to the Utah public notice website, find Nibi City Council, and subscribe to notifications on that body. If you do that, every time this body meets, you will receive an email that points to our agenda. But not only the bare bones agenda that you see on the screen, the entire information packet that the council has access to. It's not a council information packet. It's a public information packet and you can see all the same information that's been prepared by city staff that the council has access to. I beg of you, please do that. You don't have to go reach out for that information. you get a notification sent to you only for the body that you have subscribed to and you can cancel at any time. So there's no big brother stuff there. It's just a way for you to have information pushed to you about what this group of people are working on. And there's one more thing I want to mention. Um, in December, I made a commitment to be here Saturday mornings at 9:00 a.m. And I much appreciate the discussions I've had with citizens in a very relaxed, informal way. And so, there's another opportunity if you want to just chat about what's going on in Nibi, you want to ask me about process, you want to ask me about uh uh things that are coming up, things you've already done, uh, I'm going to keep doing that. and I have much appreciated the folks that have come out to that uh 9:00 a.m. Saturday and Wednesday and uh encourage you to do the same. It's less formal than a public hearing. Uh we'll coordinate with council to make sure there's not a quorum of council at that meeting. So it won't be a public meeting, but it's a chance for us to just chat about stuff. That's where we really make progress with one another. So uh those two things I want to encourage all of us to be a part of. And with that before we start the meeting uh uh ask you to say the pledge of allegiance with me. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America Thank you. With that, I'll call the January 8th, 2026 first meeting of 2026 of the newly city council to order. and welcome new council members. Let's start on the end with

»I'm just following the

»you missed it.

»It's before one program. Okay, let's do a swearing. Let's do a swearing in sorry swearing in either way ceremony uh for uh new members of council. I I I skipped step and this is important. Thanks,

»Cheryl. Will you take us through that? So, I should have done that before I even did opening ceremonies, but we weren't in session, so let's go with that.

»Um, I'm just going to take a second and um tell you how much we appreciate um your diligence, bravery shown in running for election. Everybody in this room or most people in this room knows local is where I think can make the biggest difference and we appreciate you joining us and directing us as staff to make life better for our residents. It's the model of city. Um Mayor Jacobson, would you please step forward? And when you're finished, I have two copies of the o of office. If you assign both yourses and one display

»um please repeat after me. I

»I

»Larry Jacobson

»do solemn things where

»do so

»start your name

»I Larry Jacobson

»having been collected for

»having been elected on November 4th 2025

»to the office of city mayor

»to the office of niche city mayor

»do solemnly

»do solemnly swear

»that I will support obey and defend United States.

»Constitution of the United States.

»Constitution of this state

»and the Constitution of this state

»that I will discharge the duties of my office.

»And I will discharge the duties of my office.

»Congratulations. to write it down.

»I

»Your name

»Nick

»having been elected on November 4th, 2025.

»Having been elected on November 4th, 2025

»to the Nib City Council

»to the Nib City Council. Do solemnly swear

»Do solemnly swear

»support, obey, and defend

»that I will support, obey, and defend

»the Constitution of the United States

»Constitution of the United States

»in the Constitution of this state.

»Constitution of this state

»discharge the duties of my office

»with the I

»Randy Smalling

»been elected on November 4th, 2025.

»Been elected on November 4th, 2025

»to the Nibble City Council

»to the city council. solemnly swear

»so swear

»that I will support obey and defend

»I will support obey and defend

»the constit constitution of the United States

»constitution of the United States

»the constitution of this state

»and the constitution of this state

»and that I will discharge the duties of my office

»I discharge the duties of my office with fidelity

»Thank you and congratulations Okay, now we can get to work, right, Cheryl?

»Good. Thanks for keeping me honest, council. Uh, and and thank you very much, as Cheryl stated, for being willing to serve our committee, for being willing name on the ballot, and uh it's all fun from here. So I asked the council, let's do a roll call. Randy, will you start with us? Start on that end. Please tell us who you are.

»Randy call me. I'll do it. Nick,

»man,

»Larry Jacobson and staff.

»Le Robert, city planner.

»Justin, city manager.

»Dickens, city engineer.

»Cheryl, city reporter.

»We have Amy Johnson, city treasurer with us. and Steve Lyson, public works director.

»Claire Shane

»and Cla Shane, where's Claire? There you go. Claire Shane PL

»Chad Right.

»And Chad Wright, recreation director and and and Okay, I think we got it. Perfect. With that, council, I ask you to uh consider minutes from two meetings. one was the our last meeting um December 8th and also the the board of canvas from November 17th. And if you would also take a look at tonight's agenda and I'd appreciate a motion.

»The board of canvas meeting were approved at the last meeting

»and this meeting needs to approve the December 8th and December 11th meeting minutes. Um, if you could accommodate that, I would appreciate it.

»You got that? Okay. That's what

»I'll make a motion to approve December 8th and 11 meeting minutes and tonight's agenda.

»Thank you, Aaron. I have a motion from Aaron and a second from Garrett that is to approve two sets of minutes and tonight's. Any discussion on the motion? Say none. Those in favor, please say I. Are there any post? Okay. Uh, next, as is our custom, this is an opportunity for Nimbi residents or anyone who wants to address the city council with any item of interest to Nimbi City. This is a chance for you to stand up, tell the council what's on your mind. We do have two public hearings on the agenda. So, if you're here to speak to one of those during a public hearing and if you're able, it would be good to take those comments at the appropriate time of public hearing. But if there are any other topics that you would like the council to hear you speak on, uh, I invite you to come to the microphone and let us know what's up. We do have sometimes Danny, you're you're here.

»Um, we're going to give you time on an agenda item to talk about the trail modification. I'm not sure if you would like to We'll give you as much time as you would like during that discussion with the council. Do you have something else you want to speak to at this time?

»Okay. Okay. With that, uh, I will close the public comment period and let's talk about a planning and zoning commission report.

»I can do that. Can you move the microphone?

»Levi Roberts, our

»You're no longer the chair. So, um, yeah. So, I I I put up on the screen our agenda because there's quite a few things going on, but most most of them are on the agenda tonight for city council. I just wanted to point out that uh Utah State University landscape architect and environmental planning students, they they gave a a great presentation on their findings on a project. You can see some of their posters out in the hallway on a project that they did for us looking at the town center and different elements that that feed into that. Um and it was a joint meeting with with city council and the planning commission that that portion of the meeting was and then other than that there was a there was a discussion on um the a workshop looking at fee and lube open space requirements. It was it was determined that we didn't need to pursue any changes to the code but but they were just kind of examined at the time some clarification. Uh so we're it's unlikely to to come back on an agenda just just a discussion there. Yeah. And everything else was uh will be heard in in the meeting later on. Okay. Thank you, Levi. Let's move on to agenda item number six. This is uh my recommendation to the council for consent on planning commission members for the upcoming terms. Uh, we have a couple of retiring planning commissioners. Brett Swenson has completed two five-year terms, I think, is the way it is. So, many many thanks to Brett Swenson for his service on the planning commission. Also, Karina Brown has uh done incredible job for us on the planning commission. Uh, Karina has moved to the north end of the valley and so has asked to retire from the planning commission. And then Nick Kitka is now on the city council. We thank you Nick for your service on the planning commission and and welcome you to the council. So um this is one of the I've decided one of the most interesting things that I get to do and maybe by way of example somebody asked me so how much time does it take? they were interested in serving on the planning commission and they said so how much time does it take to be on the planning commission and I said well that's kind of a tricky question because it's a gateway drummer and I think many of you can one two three four can you commission okay anyway can see how that service on the planning commission um can lead you to greater opportunities to serve the community. I remember when Mayor Welker asked me to be on the planning commission, I said, "Well, okay, as long as they don't have to put my name on a ballot." So, uh, appointments are great and, uh, that's a that's an excellent way for us to, uh, for for folks to, uh, serve their community. I was very pleased that during uh this year uh on appointments we we in fact had more people interested in serving on the planning commission than we have spots. So that either says people are very interested in being informed and being involved. Thank you Mr. Ring. Or uh it means that someone's going to straighten us out. Either way, I'm happy I'm happy to see people uh be willing to uh serve on the client commission. So, with that, um I'm going to say names and if you would why don't you come and stand by the microphone when I say your name and if council has questions for you, they'll have a chance uh to ask those. The way this works is I provide the council with a recommendation for planning commission assignments and then it's with consent of the council uh you'll be serving on the plan commission. So first it's up here Roy Rabal Roy is currently an alternate on the planning commission does great work. Thank you very much. Uh so I'd like to move uh I'd recommend to the council that Troy move to a regular position on the council. Michael Weeden, please. Michael is a We chat often. Michael is a civics teacher at Ridgeline High School, and I'm going to give Michael credit for the theme of the year. Be informed, be involved. Thank you, Michael. Uh Jess Bradfield, please. Jess lives out on the end of 3200 South on the west side. He has experience with Logan City Council. Appreciate your experience in that. Oh, and Michael has experience on a planning commission from uh Don't tell me I know my grandfather's county in Idaho. Uh Elmore County in Idaho. So uh you have that experience and we appreciate that you bringing that to us. And then I also would like to recommend to the council that Kyle Odd serve as our alternate on the planning commission. Uh the alternate is involved in all of the discussion, all of the debate, and that's what really matters. And then if there is a regular planning commissioner uh not present, then Kyle, you would you would vote in their place. So, there's some training requirements that uh these commissioners have before they're actually able to vote. That's in state code. Uh if the council has questions, I'm sure they would be happy to answer. Thank you for coming out. Thank you for your willingness to serve. Uh oh, Kyle is in Stonebridge. And what I'm shooting for, by the way, is good discussions on the planning commission. So with this group and also the ones that are there, I see a variety of opinions and I believe that will lead to good discussions on the planning commission. And that's what it's really all about. This is not me picking people that might align themselves with with what you perceive or I perceive as my own philosophy, but instead a diversity of opinions that will lead to good discussions. We need to do better on female representation. Question and get the word out.

»I had a couple of arms and they're so busy raising kids that I don't know watching mine tonight.

»The house we have the chief of police uh chief of the fire department here. I hope your house has not been burned down by the time you get. So my apologies for that. I know I need to do better. I will not give up on the people that I have gone to that are, you know, or better diversity. Sounds like I turn it to you. Sorry. I just came from um thank you for putting your name in and uh reaching out your interest. Um it's an important um duty to represent industry in that space. Um you get yelled at just the same and so uh it's like I said I think it's a great way to serve understand um the challenges any city has right as as a city grows and and providing the the guidance and hopefully good like Larry mentioned opposing fees are great. We had a lot of that in our you know the planning commission the last two years. I think that's the best thing we can have and I and I often feel like like Larry mentioned the best ideas and outcomes come from good respectful debate. So I hope to see that continued um in in that capacity that I know we have a lot of work to do moving forward and we'll we'll look forward to your working with you.

»Thank you D. Anyone else questions motions? Got it. I will make a motion to approve resolution 2601 and wait on second reading. I have a motion from Garrett, second from Nathan to approve 2601. Included in that resolution is the appointment of Troy Rabau to planning commission chair and Claire as vice chair. So, any discussion on that motion? Is anyone opposed to voting on that resolution?

»We're waving second reading. So, this will be it. Cher, will you call the roll for us, please?

»Council member, what is your vote?

»In favor,

»council member in

»favor. In favor in favor. Five in favor, none opposed. Thank you, gentlemen. Look forward to working with you. You're you're doing great service to our community. Thanks. Okay. Next agenda item number seven. This is a uh discussion and consideration on resolution 2602. This would uh deal with the DY city audit. And Amy, we're we're pleased to have you here, our treasurer, to talk us through the audit. Um

»anything to put a little scary Um,

»is there anyone from the audit team that joins?

»We have John with us tonight. He is from the company that we have contracted with to perform the audit. Um, just a little background information in 2022. While you're looking at me, is there anything you need on the screen?

»Oh,

»for them to see. Yeah,

»it's it's all on the It's 40 pages or so. So, um anyway, in 2022, the the city um had a committee that was comprised of our CPA and our council members, myself um uh and we we held we kind of reached out for an RFP and to solicit authors and so we received information back and then the committee decided uh who services to hire for the next five year contract. after maybe it was six years. Um anyway, we are now in the third year of that six-year contract and um we are grateful for Larsson and companies performing this audit each year. So this audit is required by state law and um and so every we have to have an independent audit of these financial statements. Um and uh so our auditors examined our financial statements, our internal controls and our compliance with laws and regulations and they tested transactions and reviewed our systems and they evaluated our financial reporting processes to determine whether our financial statements were presenting clearly our financial sheet um for the city. So this completed um audit report has been presented to both staff and management or and to the council and uh I will let John talk to you a little bit more about taking some time. He's come all the way for you to talk him

»nice grateful to have him here.

»Thanks council for letting me take a few minutes. Um, like Amy said, we actually completed the audit. They're actually due in December. Um, so 6 months after your year end. Um, these have all been filed with the state, so they were on time. We actually issued the audit at the end of November. Um, so just so you're aware, they're not late. It just so happens that this was the first meeting that I could make it to. I I came down with tried to give up a ghost and so I I missed for a while. Um, however, um, I just want to kind of go over tonight the opinions that we give on the financial statements. Um, there's two different opinions that we give and what is encompassing of those opinions. Uh, in our audit report, the first section is our opinion section. Um, and it's an unmodified opinion. That means that we haven't had to modify this report because of issues that we found in the audit. Um, so that's a clean opinion. So that opinion encompasses the primary focus of our audit, which is your financial statements. The second section is new this year and it'll go away next year. Um, it's an emphasis of matter. uh Gazsby, which is our governing body, um they came out with an announcement that's actually set to be implemented during 2026, but it's one of the better um statements that have come out in the past probably 20 years. Uh so because we help draft the financial statements, um I felt it important to early implement that. It kind of makes the presentation of the financial statements a little bit better. Um and that that pronouncement is is actually titled financial reporting model improvements. Um and what that does is the management's discussion and analysis which always follows the audit report that precedes the financial statements used to have significantly more information particularly in regards to the budgets. Now anything related to the budget is back behind the notes um altogether. um it used to be kind of separated out. Um and that's really the crux of the changes. Um and you'll see in the budget schedules, we now include a column that shows the difference between your early adopted budget that you adopt at the beginning of the year and then the final amended budget at the end of the year. So you can see those variances between your budget as well as the ashable to budget results. It used to just be the ashable to budget. Now, it's the changes in any budget amendments during the year. Um, I think that's important for the public to see, you know, how the budgets have changed during the year and why they've changed. Uh, the fourth section uh just outlines your responsibilities. Um, you're responsible for these financial statements, the financial statements of the city. You're required to understand the accounting principles, make sure that things are being done right. Um, the audit went very very smooth as always. Your staff, Amy, and everybody else, uh, amazing. Uh, when we ask for information, we get it almost immediately. We really appreciate Dave um, helping on the outside, putting things together, sending us schedules. Um, that makes the process uh, go a lot smoother. Um, and then just want to point out and and I think we've talked about this before. Um, there's another new paragraph under the responsibilities of of management that you're required to look for conditions or events that arise during the period that would prohibit you from continuing as a going concern at least for the next couple of years. Um, I don't love the term going concern. Um, if you have a bad year, it's not like you're going to pull up shop and stop being a city. Um, and so when I'm talked to the national GFOA board or um, and kind of express that concern, I think they're actually going to change that language because governments are different than a private business. If a private business has a downward trend in revenue, they're not going to survive much longer. That that's what going concern means. Uh, but typically governments don't go out of business. Um, so but the intent is still the same. Typically, when I'm reviewing the financial statement audit, like all of our analysis filed, all of our test work, and then I start looking at the financial statements, I'll pull up a 5-year trial balance, um, and look for negative trends, um, looking for things that would trigger us from asking more questions of, hey, do you have a downward trend in property tax? Are you going to be able to overcome this? This is significant. or if we have a co type event again and sales tax just goes away, you know, are you going to be able to overcome that? So, that's kind of what that is is is talking about and we also have that same requirement as part of our audit procedures. Um, and just remember just for new council members, there are certain sections of the financial statements that are not covered under our opinion. um they're considered unodudited and that's the management's discussion and analysis which I said before always follows the audit report and precedes the actual statements and then there the required supplementary information section that always follows the notes of the financial statements and the reason why they don't is they're not considered part of the basic financial statements but Gazby requires that those sections are always part of the financial statement packet uh because it gives more understandability and readability into the financial statements. So, if you're not a numbers person, you don't like to get down in the weeds and do an analysis with numbers. Uh the management SK discussion analysis, it's the best place to start reading the financial statements and understand them. Um there's a lot of comparative data. If you look at private company financial statements, typically they'll present the current year and then the immediately preceding year uh for comparative data. But the way that government financial statements are set up and the fact that you're dealing with multiple funds, there really isn't the room on the statements to do comparative year-to-year analysis. Um, so that's why we have the management discussion analysis. Um, and then the required supplement information that contains the URS pension 10 years contribution schedule as well as the your shared portion of the net pension liability. Um, those are a couple schedules that I don't think anybody ever looks at, but they're required to be in there. Um, and then the budget information. So, that's where the budget information is contained. All right. So, I'm going to flip the back of the next two reports that we're required to issue. The next one, if you're following along, is on page 47. And this just outlines that we perform your audit in accordance with government auditing standards. Part of those standards say that we look at your internal controls. uh we don't test your controls related to the financial reporting with enough enough of a test sample in order to include that in our opinion. Um but we're required to look at them to a make sure you have controls in place and b they're functioning and doing what they should be doing. Um and what we're looking for is controlled efficiencies that are significant enough that were caused misstatements in the financial statements um and report them as part of this letter. Uh however we found them. So, I'm going to move on to the next report, which is the state compliance report. Uh, this is a report that we're required to issue for the state auditor. Uh, every year they issue their compliance guide with the the compliance areas in Utah, I think, that they feel are important um either important enough because there's issues that are ongoing um or potentially um significant non-compliance or new areas. Um the areas that were applicable to Natively this year were your budgetary compliance. So we always make sure that you're in budget, that you adopt the budget, that you publicize the budget. Um fund balance. So two things on fund balance. We make sure that every fund that you have maintains a positive fund balance. And within the general fund, your net position or your equity, um there's different categories in that and you can see them. There's unrestricted or unreserved, unassigned. Uh those are terms are used interchangeably. There's assigned, committed, restricted, and then non-spendable. So non-spendable is typically like if you you have prepaid expenses, you've already utilized that cash in any inventory because you already it's it's purchased goods. So you can't use that as currency. Um, so we don't count anything that's restricted because they have outside restrictions and we don't count any non-spendable. So anything that's unassigned, committed or assigned um that cannot exceed 35% of the general fund revenue for the year. Um, and the minimum is 5%. And typically my recommendation is it it bumped from 25 to 35 when everybody started getting a lot of federal money because of COVID. um and it hasn't hasn't gone back down to the the 25. I don't think it will because costs are are so much more now. Um but my recommendation is to get that those three categories in total if you can maintain around 25 to 30%. Um puts you in a good position and that that allows you to use that money in the in the early part of the year uh because you get a lot of your property tax money at the end of the year. So, you've got to be able to have funds available to you to operate during the year. Um, government fees, any fees that you charge, we make sure that they're appropriate. Uh, and then restricted taxes and then the broad risk assessment. So, our opinion on those specific areas is also an unmodified opinion. Um, and that opinion includes both your compliance with those areas and the controls over making sure that you stay in compliance. So, in this opinion, we actually do test your controls enough to make sure that you have the controls in place that it's it's going to prevent you from being non-compliant both current and in the future. Um, and then findings for this year, uh, there weren't any findings. So, this year and last year, so two years without any findings. So, that's that's good. Um, that just shows the the consistency of your staff. knowing and understanding what their responsibilities are and knowing understanding code and making sure that those things happen. A lot of times we'll find non-compliance for areas of code where you're um you're only doing that one task once a year because it's very easy to forget about it. Um but your staff have the controls in place that they're they're capturing all that and they're making sure that those things happen. So, any questions for me? Council,

»thank you, John. I I do have one question. I want to go back to compliance and other matters. Um, it's in your letter. I just want to ask, you already covered internal control. Did your test disclose non-compliance on provisions of law, regulations, contracts, or grant agreements?

»No. No. That typically shows up in our findings. And then that just leads nice and big. Your audit show findings and or make recommendations on government auditing standards and compliance for this year or previous year.

»Correct.

»The answer is no.

»No. Thank you. Thanks. Great. Turn it back to Amy and staff. Uh let's see who helped us with the internal audit this year. Garrett, thank you for doing that. That's a great service I think. Right, Amy? And so a member of council or someone you might get tagged with that one of these days. But we we appreciate the openness, the transparency, the the way uh you run the finances. We appreciate the audit that verifies that. But the the way we run the finances of this of of our citizens organization. Many thanks for that. Thank you. Look to you for questions, comments, or perhaps a motion.

»Motion to approve resolution 2602 and wave second reading.

»I have a motion.

»Sorry. 2602.

»I can repeat it if you want. I usually repeat after I get a second. A second from Garrett to accept uh to approve resolution 2602 uh that which would accept the Nibbley city financial audit for 2425 and wave second reading. Any discussion on that motion? No other than just like to thank Amy and staff for always doing such a good job and congratulations to everyone involved. So thank you. The best the best audits are the most boring. Not that John is boring. [Music]

»Any objection to voting? Seeing none, this is for final. Sarah, will you call the role, please?

»In favor. Council member

»in favor. Council member

»in favor.

»In favor.

»Thank you. Five in favor, none opposed. Motion carries. Audit is accepted. John, thank you so much for coming. Uh, please drive safely on your way home. If you guys have question, feel free to reach out. I'm going fantastic. this is a discussion and consideration adopting annual amendments to the Nib City consolidated fee schedule. Amy, you're on the hot seat again. If you could please.

»So, um, every year we like to conduct a review of the consolidated fee schedule. We always just want to make sure that our fees are aligning with the actual cost of providing these services. And oh, Thank you. Um and so some some of the considerations that we think about when we are reviewing the fee schedule is we we look at them and we say what is the actual cost of reviewing these applications? What is the cost of our staff time? Um another thing we consider is material costs. What are what's the actual cost of purchasing a meter? How should we be charging for a water meter? Um, another thing that we consider is um, uh, pass through costs. Like for example, um, water modeling, sewer modeling, um, JB increased their cost to us for that this that service this year. And so we accordingly have to bump up the cost for um, through passive through. Um, another consideration is what is the cost of the software that we're using to be able to um facilitate licensing costs or um or permitting costs or application costs. For example, civic review would be an example of that. Um, and also, you know, outsourcing costs. Um, what are what are we being charged, you know, for for different services? So, um, so, uh, all of these things are things that we consider estimate shipping fees and we we, uh, we've been directed by the state government that we really need to align these fees with with what the actual cost is of that and we have to back it up by, you know, what something that is reasonable. So, anyway, um, there's there's a large list of them. Um, I'm happy to go through them one by one or maybe you've already been able to review them.

»What's your direction on that?

»Would you like to talk about the changes or have you had a chance to review those?

»A few specific questions, but

»great.

»Let's start with those then, please.

»Okay. Um, one one that I noticed change was a $30 stock fee. Um maybe you could explain that just what that is and why I mean why there be associated with stop service.

»Yes. Yes. All right. So um we used to have it listed as an NSF. Um oh oh just payment fee.

»All right. So um Express Bill Pay charges us $30 for a stop payment fee. And so we have to pass that cost along to our consumers. And so anytime one of our consumers would maybe put a stop on their utility payment, it would norally be coming through express pay rather than the city eating that cost. We're passing that along to

»like a temporary stop or like they're moving out.

»Um but that's just a temporary stop. So that to be a one time stop where they had initially maybe began the process to pay their utility payment decided they didn't have enough money in it or maybe there was another reason why they would have to stop that payment. So it's it's just more of a banking transaction fee. That's just a one time fee. Um I notice um maybe you could just explain also the parking fee or is the parking ticket increased from 25 to 40 but then there's a money off if they pay it within the two weeks. So it's actually a net difference of what five or 10.

»Yes. All right. So we decided to structure this similar to our um our early bird discounts that we offer on dog licensing as well as youth sports. um rather than rather than adding on a late fee, it's more a kind of an early bird pricing.

»Is is there an issue of people not paying on time? Is that why?

»Yes,

»very much an issue with that. So, we were just trying to encourage people to pay it early. Um just hoping that restructuring it this way would be a little more attractive than adding on a late fee.

»Yeah. Um, when someone's doesn't pay a parking ticket, is that Evan that have to go back to them or is that you or that Wendy? Who have to go back to them and try to remind them like, hey, you got to pay this?

»Um, it's well, we're kind of in transitioning right now to a new software system and so it's going to be handled totally differently. We just went live today with our new um T2 software. That's our new parking enforcement and code citation software. So um so in the past however um it it would come down to me after the two weeks it would be my job to invoice these individuals and then if they didn't pay at that time it was it continued to be my job to continue to invoice them and then and then decide what what our next remedy is. And unfortunately, we haven't really had a lot of luck in collecting a lot of those because we don't really have anything um any leverage or guess the right word.

»What percentage of of tickets is that you think don't ever get paid or between the time?

»80% are getting paid, 20% are not. Okay. Um and then my last question um has to do with the fee of um developers paying in le of open space dedication. That's on your as well, right?

»Yes, that's right. I'm going to

»I can speak to

»Yeah, that one um you can kind of say we punted a little bit on that. We we didn't we didn't feel like it was appropriate to just have a standard like per acre fee because it really depends. So it it depends on the the value of the property. So really it's going to be kind of a case by case thing, but we wanted to get it on the fee schedule just as a guidance for that. It's it's the if I remember right, and I don't have it on the screen, it's the value of the property plus the improvement cost of of you know what it would be to putting grass on,

»turn it into a park.

»Turn it into a park. Yeah. And so

»yeah. Yeah. I guess we would we would likely get get an appraisal or some kind of an assessment of what of what the cost of that is and then and then that would have to uh just be agreed upon and approved by whoever the approval approval body is for that development.

»Can I tag on? Thanks for asking those questions.

»Is fee in Lua for open space fully enabled by code yet?

»Yes,

»completely on open space subdivisions for example, occupation subdivisions.

»Yes.

»Agenda tonight.

»It's already in code. Um open space subdivisions are PUD and RM zone. Yeah.

»Is that is that within what is that within a half mile of park too? Is that a provision? Yeah. I mean, it would have to it would have to be uh if if it's beyond a half a mile of the park.

»Yeah. So, yeah, there's certain stipulations they have to meet.

»Yeah.

»Amy, I have a question for you. Um, you mentioned guidance from the state. Is that is that just guidance as though how you communicate with somebody from the state or is that a statute where we're being dictated to have the coalign or or I guess fall in line with other entities?

»Yeah.

»What the rates are or

»this is actually it received at an annual treasur they to share my continuing professional education hours. It's just guidance that we've been given by state representatives to make sure that ours are aligning closely with the actual So no statute per se. to remove snow from suns and you know today it happens and it's not much snow. In 48 hours from there will be no snow. I get that. But, you know, it snows 6 in. There could be some left. Someone could be out of town. I know neighbors, they chip in and help. $100 a day. You know, that feels excessive. It may maybe not. And how does that work? If they're gone for a week and it's sitting there, I mean, if they come back and past 48 hours, is that a is that a $5 bill? I mean, how does And I'm just some clarification on that. Well, this is exactly why we're here and is so that if something seems unreasonable, then that's something to finding.

»We're here to discuss. So, thank you for sharing.

»I can I can speak to it just a little bit. I mean, I I don't think I'm going to wide answer your question. Maybe I'll pass that to Justin, but just to introduce it. Uh, pre previously the when someone didn't remove um snow from sidewalks. We didn't have a specific fee that pointed to that. It was blocking public ways is what we used and it was actually I believe uh I'd have to look on here, but I think it's 250 or 7. I I it was quite a bit more than this. Um we felt like 100 was more reasonable. Um we would in practice what we would likely do is war send a warning first and give them and we'd give them a certain amount of time and then if they didn't then then we would site the $100 a day. So just work back. I was working a weird night shift and it snowed and and then I had people complain and my sidewalks weren't weren't trouble. So um the 48 hour thing I think we we added too. It used to be like day of right. Yeah. And we changed it to 48 hours ended for that idea that like, hey, if you work a a graveyard shift and it snows and you're gone, you're at work, then you still have another day to get rid of snow. Um, and the other the other conclusion we we spoke to in our conversation last winter was just like if you you're going on vacation in January, you might talk to your neighbors and say, "Hey, if it snows, you might show them my fat box within 48 hours." I mean, it's a little bit on the homeowner to say, "I'm going to be out of town. My neighbors help me out." So, that was the kind of conclusion we we spoke to last.

»Yeah, those are great discussions. A little bit of background. We actually the 48 hours is by code. It's a 02 I'm sorry 1302 and we modified that uh June of 2025 to make it from day of to 48 hours. So 48 hours after the end of a storm. So that's by code. We're talking about about the fee and that's appropriate for us to talk about what that fee is. If if 48 hours is the wrong number, the council will need to take up a code change as well, which is is fine. We can do that. I say in that discussion, I remember talking about having that be similar to what parking was that why would a sidewalk clearing be any more than a parking ticket? I know we talked about aligning those two and making them similar. I guess that's up to you if if you if you want to change this one. That's I mean that's definitely open to discussion. I was just our recommendation. It could be $100 a day. It could be $100 an occurrence. It could be $40. I mean, we were we we just we felt what it was before was unreasonable. So, we're trying to make it a little more reasonable here.

»Forgive me if I missed the section, but I'm just curious about the 50 cent and $1 increases under the dog section. Is that because of software costs like a dollar or

»Yes. Is that because it's

»weed software and half of the software? So the software the software is priced according to how many applications that we have and half of the implications we're currently using for our dog see but it saves um but the reason why we are still have to do that is it makes it easier for our residents to be able to register online from home in the middle of the night. We were having a lot of complaints that it was too hard to register us the way that we used to do it. So um so anyway because it's using this valuable expensive software um are yes

»no but I feel like has been decreased as far as staff staff needing to manage thousand people that would be walking in to do it and and hopefully we're getting more people to register because it is an easier it used to be but but yes the the software is a consideration.

»Yeah that makes sense. I just saw that interest.

»Okay, it's interesting to ask.

»That's a good point. I think it shows staff's attention to justifying even small changes. I mean, it may seem like it's in the noise. I'm not suggesting that, but I think it shows an an attention to what does this actually cost to register a dog? And so I don't think it's false precision. I think it's high accuracy. Thanks for that.

»Absolutely.

»And I'm not arguing.

»No. Yeah. Just found it interesting and curious.

»I can attest to the I think you call it the early bird special on paying a parking ticket. I went out to my bike out here after I was eating at city hall and found a parking ticket on my bike. Yes. So now the new system

»and uh went through the whole gamut of emotions and and I I definitely noticed that if I paid that parking ticket within two weeks I get paid $5 or I did not I hadn't paid more. I also had the opportunity to appeal it. But because I was motivated to get the good deal by I came in and found out I was part of a test population instead of getting a parking ticket for parking my bike at the bike rack.

»So go ahead Justin.

»Yeah, if I may. Thank you. We if this helps on any thoughts or any discussions along the way. We do hope that you will pass this just for first read tonight and not wait a second. We would like to add one fee that kind of came in late. We do apologize about that, but we would like to assess a fee to our asphalt cuts. One of the biggest infrastructure value infrastructure we have is in our roads and so we try to take care of those as best we can and do what we can. One of the problems we have is people coming in after the fact and cutting holes for the road to patch and things like that. So we do want to tweak that fee right now. I might to give you the details, but we would like to tweak that thing a little bit, make it a little more me. so that people care and want to do a good job so that they get a refund back. So if that helps your discussion at all, we uh we we do have those numbers if you want to go over tonight and we can have them ready to present to you at the next meeting and or any questions you may have about it as you go. So if if that helps your discussion.

»Okay. So there's nothing on the schedule that just so I heard it right. there's nothing on the schedule to change our fee schedule that need to be approved tonight, you know. So, we we typically do two readings at council. It's according to what the council has adopted by resolutions for how we run meetings. The first one, the first reading is often just an introduction to a topic, a chance to ask questions, ask for additional permission of staff, but then we then come back for a second. But the council always has the option if they feel like they have enough information or had enough time to think about it uh to wave the second reading. So, if you have any questions about that, I'd be it helps guide our discussion, by the way, if we kind of know if we're working on a first reading or second reading because then we can ask for information on first reading and do heavy lifting amendments and real policy discussions on second. If we're in if we're likely to wave the second reading, then the first reading is tight. And as a result of that, it's I always appreciate an early motion. Motions can always be amended if an easy process for doing that, but if you get a an early motion, we all know what the proposal is. So,

»yeah, I mean, I would avoid or I would appreciate just with it first. I I I emailed Amy a couple nights ago. I was like, "Hey, how do we compare with other cities just in general with each one of these things?" And I think that would at least help me understand like I was going to put together kind of a you know quick spreadsheet and and maybe help me understand maybe I know I know we differ as we discussed in different processes and methods and I respect that but I think for me even just to get some better context of where we sit most maybe even you know other communities in in Cash County with our same population or just all of them in general. I think that would help me understand kind of where we sit in others um just so I understand how we operate better or myself.

»Okay. Do you need information from staff on that?

»No, I I started to use AI to do that and I got to go check all these before I question

»but it was cool using AI.

»Yeah. Trust and verify, right?

»Especially on baseball. Google baseball often leaving out of only in this case. Sir,

»I'll make a motion here.

»Thank you.

»Um to approve resolution 2603 for first reading.

»We have a motion and a second from Nick to approve 603 on first reading. Any time for discussion on that. Okay. Uh before if there's no opposition to voting, we'll go ahead with the vote. But let's make sure uh Randy brought up the idea of um changing perhaps uh the fee for failure to remove snow. So that that's certainly something that could be amended, you know, from from here. Uh I yeah I'll go ahead and say I I think in general all of our punitive buys are not intended certainly not intended to make money. You know

»I see you nodding your head. Thank you. It's to modify behavior. So, it's it's it it's not like the $1 dog fee increase in dog fee where you say, "Well, it cost an extra dollar, you know, because of the software, but instead, you know, the the the fines are a little bit soft in terms of where you would like to see those. Appreciate your suggestions, but really the intention is to modify behavior as opposed to make money. We don't make money on Right. It's a guarantee. Other thoughts on the motion to adopt from first three staff? Uh you mentioned the the asphalt uh deposit. So we'll we'll come back to that on second reading. Anything else from staff before we get second reading? Okay. Is there opposition to voting? Saying none by voice. Those in favor of adopting to first reading, please say I.

»I. Any oyst? Okay. Motion passes. Thank you, Amy.

»Okay, let's move on to number nine. This is uh resolution 2604. Uh the proposal is to amend the Nibi city active transportation plan. I appreciate folks uh that have engaged with me on this topic. Um and thanks for being here. Uh on that we held a public hearing at the planning commission. He also has access to that and Nick was there for it. So if you have questions or there are commissioners here you could ask about. Um the public hearing at city council on this issue is completely optional and um what we're going to do instead is have the proponent have as much time as they would like to engage the council in discussion. That person is Danny Jackson. So Danny, thanks for being here. Uh we'll we'll start off with Levi if if we can and then you're welcome to stand right there and um contradict anything he says or whatever. But we'll start with Levi then we'll turn it to you

»and and then we'll uh let council Thank you.

»Yeah, I'll I'll give a a brief introduction here. um as well as what the the recommendation of staff as well as the recommendation of uh planning commission. So uh f first of all the the applicant is proposing uh realignment of trails or or we call them pave paths in in the active transportation plan as well as a neighborhood byway. I'll explain a little bit more about what the what those facilities are and where those uh changes are proposed. Um specifically, there's an east west trail that's in the the current adopted plan on the north border of Scott Farm subdivision moving that 1300 ft south as well as a realignment of a neighborhood byway. So, this was provided by the applicant. Um sorry the resolution isn't great. I'm not not quite sure why the screen's kind of um a little bit wigging out there, but I uh I'll I'll explain it here. So, the one the the one on the left is um what is in the current plan and then the one on the right is what's being proposed. So, the green uh is is pay paths or we have to call them trails. So, you know, typically between 8 and 12 ft wide uh paved path and then and then the purple is a neighborhood byway. So, what what the applicant's proposing is that a pave path and I'll and and you'll be able to see a little bit better. Maybe I'll go to the next next screen. You can see that a little bit better. So, the red is what's existing and the green is what's being proposed just to show where those alignments are. Um the the previous slide showed a little bit more of the context, the network, but this is really just showing what the the the changes um that are being proposed. So there's a there's a paved path on the north edge of the um Scott Farm subdivision. So you can see it there. Uh 3430 South is the closest cross street and 640 West. and and that that connects to a planned trail which ties into uh the Nibi Meadows subdivision. And then and they are proposing to move that trail as you go on the screen to the furthest south. uh bend it bend it to the south along n that 900 west alignment and then and then do east toward what is on the other side of the railroad tracks the other side of 640 west the Mount Vista subdivision and and and then um there's a neighborhood byway which was in in the current plan is shown adjacent to the the subdivision to the south and they're proposing that it be moved just to the street and that's and I'll explain a little more of what those are. So neighborhood byway uh it's it really is a shared street. It's a low volume low low speed neighborhood street that provides comfortable alternative to visitor roadways. So, uh, really it's just a a street that has traffic calming and and, um, signage, other other elements that that point to that this you're this is a shared roadway and and and really, um, prioritizing not just vehicular traffic, but but more so, you know, bicycles, pedestrians, the and then a pave path. Um, as I mentioned, you 8 8 to 12 ft. It could be along a roadway. It could be completely separated from a roadway, but that's that's what we mean by that. Um, the applicant did provide a justification and they and they went into more detail. It's in the packet and I'm sure you know the applicant was prepared to provide more, but just a quick summary of of their justification is the alignment with city goals for pedestrian access and connectivity. Um they they suggest that this would improve connectivity of of a trail that uh extends all the way to 1500 west. Really we we have some existing trails along uh Nib Nibbly Farms that follow this kind of general east west direction and and all and 2640 west with a potential connection east of the train tracks. They they note benefits that it benefits residents by increasing privacy by locating away from existing residents and and they suggest that this by realigning the trail would lead to more use and and and better safety by by encouraging uh more active transportation users on onto this facility. uh staff. We we we discussed this with uh with public public works director, city engineer, and the city manager and myself. We we met and discussed this and and um and I'm just going to go a little bit over some of our analysis. So, well, f first of all, just just to

»kind of remind Yeah, go ahead.

»Just for a second.

»Yeah. if you presentation. So,

»yeah, I I am. And I don't know why it's See, and then it it usually does it usually doesn't do this. I I'm just gonna I'm just going to leave it there. And then um

»yeah, it usually doesn't go this way, so I'll have to troubleshoot that. But um so so first of all just to point out that that the active transportation plan um some of the process that that we went through there the trails are provided in conjunction with with development. Um so typically when when there's a trail built uh yes we we may have a city project that uh a capital project where where we build a trail but most often trails have been provided in conjunction with development. Um the recently adopted plan, it focuses on improving community accessibility and connectivity while developing a safer, more attractive network for bicyclists and pedestrians. And and um with a focus on connecting neighborhoods, schools, parks, and other community destinations. This trail uh that that's in the plan now, it would provide a direct connection. And and I by this I mean the one to the north that would that would go to the north of the subdivision there, Scott Farm subdivision, and connect in it would it would connect into Nibbly Meadows and and be a direct connection into the planned park that's that's in partly in the Nibbly Meadows subdivision and over to 640 West. that we we did discuss the railroad crossing that what the alignment that the applicant is proposing does does uh align with a potential um open space that's in Mount Vista where you could cross the railroad tracks and and it was expressed in that discussion that that it's um unlikely in the foreseeable future to have any kind of railroad crossing there but Um that was that was considered and then u the staff is in support of of the proposal for the neighborhood byway realignment to the existing roadway stub. It would be more more logical than the the current alignment. Uh it's unlikely that there there'd be a street directly south of Scott Farms. it would it would make more sense just to to share the road that that's already there for that type of a facility. So staff's recommendation is approval of of this ordinance but uh with the modification that there would be no amendments to the trail alignments while while approving the neighborhood byway uh changes. Well, planning commission's recommendation is approval as as the applicant has proposed. So, the the planning commission did um did agree with with the applicant's assessment that that it improves the it it's an overall improvement of potential connectivity of of the trail system. and and I mean that's that's kind of a short assessment of of their discussion, but but um they they did agree with with the applicant and and recommend approval of of the this resolution which would align it um in in accordance with what the applicant has proposed. So can you show me so what is what do you mean by staff recommendation bullet point that you don't the second part

»yeah so so the there's two if you can follow my cursor here there's really two uh proposals here and the one is to move this path this alignment here to the south and staff staff is has recommended not to approve that but is supportive of this realignment of the neighborhood byway which would be moving it from here to the south border to this street. However, uh planning commission does recommend approval as as the applicant has proposed.

»So hopefully that hopefully that's clear. Sorry, the graphics aren't the greatest. Maybe if I go back to this, you can see again how how that network all kind of comes together in that area.

»Danny, give you a chance and then ask you to stick around if there are questions.

»Perfect. Thank you, Ken. Uh, so first of all, I want to say thank you to everyone who took time to meet me on this. We we really didn't try to approach it from a perspective and several people from staff, the mayor, some of the planning commission, city council met with me, helped me understand what are the objectives of the trails, what are we trying to achieve in the city and I think it really helped us come up with a proposal that meets city objectives. It helps the current residents out and it protects future residents as well. So I think it really takes care of all those things. Um, is it okay if I take the microphone and approach the the screen? Would that be okay?

»Yeah, for sure. Um, people that online see you.

»Okay.

»At the screen,

»you got a point.

»Yeah, I should I should have been using that, too. I forgot about that.

»Yeah, we're one of the most popular.

»They'll see the screen at least. So, you'll see a couple of different proposals. So, the dashed lines on this side that that's what's currently in the transportation plan. And then I used a different type of line here that's kind of a fuzzy line just to differentiate between what's currently in the plan what we're um and so the the reason we think that this is more beneficial all around is if you look at the current green line which is a paved pathway it's it's really providing some connectivity from 10th west to 640 west and at 640 west it dead ends today it will dead end in the future. future as well because it actually aligns right into the back of a house on the east side of the railroad tracks. So there's really no way to take that trail in the future and extend it further to the east and connect it into the Mount Beasta neighborhood and and the trail network that goes all the way up to Main Street. So as as we looked at it and we said, how do we build something that provides greater connectivity by aligning it here? this green line you go all the way to 1500 west up to 640 and then as was mentioned it aligns with a retention pond that's currently owned by Nibi city and connects to a neighborhood byway. So a couple of other things that provides this kind of green area here with the slash lines that's a future regional park. Um, and so by aligning the trail the way we we're talking about here, it also provides all of these neighborhoods trail access to the regional park in the future. As we as the uh trail network develops out, it gives more citizens access to that such to that regional park and people from the east side of the tracks will be able access all the way down to the future hierarch. So we we view it as a way that we provide quite a bit more connectivity. Um there's sometimes some questions on you know why are we coming now? The active transportation plan was just approved in February of last year. And the reason is it wasn't until August that we in our neighborhood here in Scott Farm subdivision really understood the active transportation plan. We really understood what it was about and where the trails were located. Uh, and most of us were were shocked and shame on us for not being informed and not being involved earlier. But now that we understand and we know where things are, we're we're coming with a proposal to say, "Hey, here's a way to get a connectivity without it running right through not through but adjacent to a lot of our backyards." Uh, a couple of other kind of statistics, things I want to share. where the trail is currently aligned. It puts it 56 feet off of the back of several of the homes and it's homes that have been there for up to two decades prior to the trail being on even on the 2017 plan. And at 56 ft, a person with 2040 vision can easily recognize a face. They can easily read a license plate. They can easily see inside the home. Uh and so that's one of the things that brought this up originally is as residents of the neighborhood. We were quite shocked and surprised that there's a plan to put a future pathway there. Uh and we were concerned about privacy. That was the catalyst that kind of got this started. But then as we approached it, we said, let's do this in a fashion. Um we've also done quite a bit of research. There's several institutions that offer guidance on how close parallel pathways, sidewalks, neighborhood byways should be. Um, and it it was interesting. They they define a parallel path as having the same origin and destination pair. So, it's not like a mathematical parallel path. Um but the recommendation from most of those institutions are that you would place parallel bicycle and pedestrian facilities a quarter to a half a mile apart. And so by adjusting the plan this way we still comply with that guidance from those institutions. uh by moving the pathway about 1,200 feet to the west, we're we're actually a little bit tighter than what they even recommend being a quarter miles um 1300 ft or something. So, uh we really feel like this is a win-win proposal. The last thing I want to tell the council is this all kind of started with a a petition that we took around and and we didn't have anyone say, "Hey, we don't want to sign your petition. we don't agree with you. What was really disheartening for me is the number of times people told me, "Yeah, I'll sign your petition, but nobody's going to listen to you. The city doesn't care. They're not going to listen to good luck, blah blah blah." I want to go on record and say that has not been my experience. I've actually had an opposite experience. So, um, the staff has been very responsive. The planning commission was very responsive. Uh the mayor's been very responsive and listening and talking to us and and I'm hopeful we're hopeful that tonight we'll continue to feel that way that our our voices are heard that we're understood and that we really did find a resolution here. So thank you. Are there any questions I can answer? stick around maybe as as as council discussion

»my question is um thank you I mean you've done your homework time and effort into this and you done this the right way and I think I applaud you on that so it's just an overarching question with the proposed removal of this pathway it is it going to affect anyone else's private problem that's not here tonight because if if we move it, it's going to is it is it is it touch anyone's private property? They're going to be like, "Wait a minute. What are we doing?"

»It it moves it away from any current residences. Um and it still crosses the same private properties that that the the byways and paths cross today. So, the the the property in question is a parcel. The owner's name is Cordell Jensen. I don't know if I can hopefully say that.

»We can get that information off the heers of the property and currently this byway. If I look right here, this byway crosses the north edge of his property. What we're proposing is the byway becomes part of the 3480 street here and then this pathway still crosses the same piece of property, but it crosses on the north or sorry the south border instead of the north border. And would he be okay with that? I mean, I just I you know, just I'm curious of what his opinion is. Are we doing him a disservice? I I don't I'm just curious.

»That's a great question. I have not I have not talked to him personally about this to be honest. I don't even know if he knows there's currently a buyer to address this property. I don't know. maybe rewrite this one.

»Yeah, maybe just just something to consider on that is it, you know, it's it's an agricultural property. It's unlikely that it would be built until it's developed as a subdivision.

»Um, right,

»the trail right on on that property. So just just something to consider with that that we're not necessarily proposing that we go in and build build a trail through his farm field right now, but if if and when it subdivides, we would we would require it as part of the subdivision.

»Okay. Thank you. that that certainly is, you know, a candidate depending on how the council wants to go first or second meeting, but certainly a candidate will follow up on second reading to approach that David.

»Yeah, this is a question for kind of anyone involved in discussions that I've been able to participate in. Um, was any discussion had um about the paved path not being moved south but being moved north.

»There there was not any discussion about that because moving it further to the north would put it adjacent to current residences again. So you're just moving from from one set of backyards to another set of backyards. Yeah. Um, that's kind of why I ask, right, is is some of the individuals that I think have have signed the petition actually own some of the property. But what we have is we have about um,300 ft from 3,200 to the next proposed trail, which is what you said that that kind of nice distance that you like to have those parallels in.

»Yeah. So, I was just curious if anybody had had talked to property owners north of that about the traveling because I think that's what's the the amount of time space in there. So, I was just curious if it happened. So, we can talk more about it in discussion. I just wondered if that had happened there. It didn't happen. It's not the way the properties are. So, some of the properties along 3200 are quite long. They're an acre and a quarter. So you would be you would be crossing five or six properties that are they're unlikely to subdivide in the future because they don't have enough frontage to even create a flag lot. They don't meet they only have 100 ft of frontage now and if you take 30 ft for a flag lot they they don't have the frontage to create flag lots. So it would be a a difficult thing to make happen sometime in the future.

»Great. Yeah.

»Yeah. And we're in council discussions with sis.

»There was a public hearing held just just so you know at at planning commission.

»We have I'll make

»Yeah, I'll make a motion to adopt the first reading. We have a motion and a second. A motion from Nathan and a second from Nick to adopt for first reading. Let's discuss that.

»So I mean I I can speak to I was on the planning commission at this time and I I did a vote. So obviously I cannot will not speak for the entirety of the planning commission but certainly there's some commissioners in the audience too. me if you have any questions for them. But ultimately, I think in my mind when we discussed this topic, um I think it was a good compromise where the city look like we all recognize that trails and the opportunity to connect people to spaces are a good thing. I think everyone could create with them, especially getting people off off the street in into more of a comfortable environ. Um I think for us at least for excuse me for me uh what the things I considered in this proposal um and the way I voted which what I which was a unanimous vote to agree with the applicant was essentially we still get what we need. It lines up um with pre-existing infrastructure from a neighborhood to the east. Um and then also as somebody who lives in a neighborhood with um I was afforded the opportunity to know that ahead of time buying into this neighborhood and I know that the that the likelihood or actual likelihood that the trailer sorry um and I feel like this would give some provide some context to as this would the proposal would move south that would just make that more realization as that develops, then the people who would likely buy into that next development are that and and the the folks in the neighborhood and around this, like Danny mentioned, these homes have been around for a long time, right? And they were not afforded that same opportunity. I guess maybe that I did when I considered the house that I lost. So that that was sole reason one mainly that a we still get what we need essentially connecting people um and having that connect connectivity to the west as you can see in the proposal but then also allowing the natural progression of the the next development that may come when it does and that would become more of a realized kind of a um thing within that neighborhood or or within that development that maybe the folks that are in meetings I mean obviously I'm right. So hopefully that made sense but that was that was basically the correct sense as as that made I appreciate that name. One of the one of the Saturday morning questions for Danny was uh I find it ironic that we like trails and we believe our city surveys and active transportation plans so on so forth. We we believe it's good for our community to be connected with a wellorganized trail system. We like trails but we don't like trails behind our house. And so to me there's a disconnect there because as as we plan our town, as we plan transportation, um we we kind of run into this this irony that to me is a conundrum. We like trails, but we don't like them in our backyard or next to our backyard. And so to me it's like well what is the defining line? And this goes back to discussions on Hall Road from 30 years ago. Yeah. I br it up, didn't I? What is the what is the difference between accepting a trail next to our backyard and not accepting a trail next to our backyard? and you both talked about it and if if I just go ahead and answer the rhetorical question is which came first? Did I buy that lot knowing there would be a trail behind my house or did I build the house and then find out uh either because I didn't know or find out because or or have the master plan change that there would be a trail behind my house. And so I think that is in fact the the defining line between accepting a trail next to my house or not accepting trail next to my house. And and I understand that. I still think it's a little bit funky because the complaint about having a trail next to your house is a loss of privacy. And really 5 years after Charlie's built, whether it's before a house was there or after the house was there, there's the same law perceived, and I'm not sure I agree with it, but there's the same perceived loss of price. So, I accept the answer. I think that's the conclusion you and I came to. I think that's what you're talking about. I see Randy nodding his head. And it's a matter of did I know it was there before I bought the house? and uh before I built the house or they didn't come in after I was already settled in. Now, that public service announcement number two uh for my for the night. Um when you think about buying a piece of property and there's undeveloped property on your backyard, it's a good idea to look at plans of what the city intends for that undeveloped property as it develops. Um these plans are out there. Uh there's road plans, there's trail plans, there's so on and so forth. And so um those plans are available on the website. And that's another place that uh as you as you buy property and move forward, even if the trail comes uh well because of that timing issue, sometimes not knowing about it doesn't establish what that really is. So that's that. Danny, do you have anything to add to that?

»No, I think it's well said it's it's which comes first.

»Yeah. So, the problem with that still continuing on that vein is it means as we as Lily City grows into current farmland or undeveloped, that means that part of town has a chance of being well connected. And we're still left with the challenge of how do we make any already developed part of part of the well-connected network. Just things that you can think about.

»Anything else?

»I have a question for Levi.

»So in the staff recommendation you recommend not to amend the trail alignment. So not diverting that trail south instead of keeping it at the north. So with the current plan, the current transportation master plan, that trail gets to 640 west and then what's the plan for that trail? Does this it just dead ends there? It it moves along the sidewalk or south along 640.

»Yeah. I mean there is a planned trail along 640. So I it's it would just it would just tie into the network via 640. Yeah.

»Yeah. So there tracks a barrier between 640 and neighbor to the east other than just dirt road that's already goes on a railway track,

»right? I mean I guess if there was ever a connection there would it would have to it would meander south along 640 and then across that way rather than being a direct connection.

»Yeah. So yeah.

»Great. Danny, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to weigh in on the two proposals, the one that you have made and the the one that staff's made. Do you have do you have a do do you have a response for

»Yeah, I I do. I think the the key here is where it currently goes. I think as as council member man said, it kind of dead ends on 640 and then it has to travel south to the point where we're saying the crossing would naturally be anyway. Um and by realigning the trail right now, it puts that in a straight line. It puts all of those connections together. Um the the other thing that's been discussed is the road. It's not easy to get railroad crossings. It's it's pretty difficult to do that. Um, but part of the plan shows a future rail trail as well where that road property is and you know there's maybe someday in the future where the city's able to acquire that property from the railroad and then it makes it a nice crossing. Everything lines up east to west and you don't have to do as much meandering north and south to to move from the east side of town to the west side of town. Uh so this is just suggestions as we think about for second reading. Um in the active transportation plan, there's information in there um about surveys of why residents maybe do or do not the barriers of using trails and being more active. Uh those include distances, being disconnected, mostly weather, um and feeling unsafe. um which I think kind of goes to privacy, right? Yeah. Um as part of that um and then in that same survey talks about like what would help them do more of that and part of that is is what we're trying to do here more designated lanes and and separated pathways that aren't just byways. Right. So the difference between the byway and the pathway Yeah. Uh byways are on streets or close to streets, right? So, um, one thing I would like to since I haven't been able to engage as much as I'd like is to, uh, consider because we're our master streets plan doesn't have anything between 3,200 and what is it?

»36480 34 about 3500. 3600, right?

»Oh, yeah. There is 34. I guess there is a local street that that would tie into Scott Farm about 3480. You're right.

»Yeah. Um, and that's that's quite a bit of space, you know, and we put in the sidewalk at 640 in my time on council. Think I got elected.

»Um, I would like to see a trail north of last stream. I really would. and and and you you you talk about maybe the difficulties of why, but I think that there are some parcels along there that are owned by a single individual currently that we could engage to see if it's a possibility if that's something Hans agrees with. I'm happy to have those conversations, but I just think that that is a really long gap that's really close to a school that that there may be some potential for a trail north that is only going to affect one property owner currently if we can engage in that conversation. Does that make sense what I'm talking about?

»No, it it doesn't make sense. I I think one sure what property we're talking about 030230020. So that parcel is being proposed to be divided into three three homes. So and that's that's part of what this is about. That is actually the parcel that the trail crosses right now. So that is the same parcel that it's currently crossing

»on the south side

»on the on the south border of that horse. Okay.

»Um but but the other thing is when I look at that and I think about the number of people you're potentially servicing that trail, um you're talking about three homes in that parcel. And the other homes that are likely to use that trail would be the uh this parcel right here. this property right here which is still zoned I I forget the new designation but it's like multi-density or something but based on that zing that that piece of property is 1,200 ft by 600 ft and you could put about 12 homes in there. So you're talking about putting a trail there to service 15 homes in the future versus if you move it to the alignment that we're proposing, you're you're servicing hundreds, hundreds of residents instead of a small number of residents. So that's that's another reason that I would say it makes the most sense to move it that way. and and based on the, you know, National Association of City Transportation official guidance, even at that, you're about half a mile from 3200 to that trail, which is within the guidance that they they propose. So,

»just to push back a little bit, we're not putting in we don't put trails in for 15 homes, right? We put trails in for everybody in the city to use. So,

»it's not we're not putting this trail in just for the Scott Farms subdivision or just for three homes in that one division. We put trails in for anyone to be at least, right? So,

»totally totally understand. But if you think about the logical flow of how people move for a city, um if people are going to come out of Monisa for example here, they're going to go all the way to 3200. if their destination is the elementary school, they're not going to come back down 640 and go to along here and then to the elementary school. Um and and so the the flow of traffic, the fact that people have to go to 3200 to cross the tracks right now in order to even access the trail where it currently is, the only people that are logically going to access that trail are the ones that either live here or in the future live here and want to go to 3200. But you do think they will move south to the very southwest corner of their neighborhood to go up. No,

»I'm saying it services these people here who are going to come down the trail and go all the way to Slooh where they're going to access it which the current alignment doesn't go all the way to high Slooh and it also does not connect back down to the regional park in in a logical way. I I think you make a good point, Eron. A lot of people use trails with no destination in mind. They're out for a run or they're out for a walk. So, you're welcome. Oops. Okay. Have we got enough to vote on first reading? Um I noted uh the effect to you said the name I don't remember what it was but there there's a there's a potential another affected property owner with with the new proposed alignment.

»Yeah he's he's currently affected with the current alignment. It'll just change which side of the property is affected him as Cordell Jensen. So, we could go kick the beehive and that's that's a good thing to do. Um, I think we know the answer on their proposal to the north about talking to uh that property owner and how they would be affected. And I think they're here tonight.

»Oh, yeah.

»Great. Yeah, they are here. I think they I I I think I I you can speak for them. You guys, you know, we you can speak for yourselves. I think we know how they That's probably why this proposal was different.

»That's fair enough. Anything else? Uh do we have anything anything for staff to cover before we get second reading?

»Yeah, Danny, I have a question for you. Are you going to come to the next active transportation open house? I'm going to take on Mike Wing's advice and get informed, get it involved. So, you'll see a lot more of me. Great. Looking forward to it. Good.

»Any objection to voting uh for first reading on this matter? Seeing none, those in favor of advancing to second reading, please say I. I. Any opposed? Okay. Motion passes. Thanks. Thank you. We'll see you again. Okay. How we doing council? Um good.

»We're ready. We're ready to start with a ter plan. So

»if there's no objection, we'll take we don't have let's take a break until Well, thank you. just actually well I don't know what Okay. So, thank you. Uh, next on our agenda is public hearing in preparation for that. This is public hearing of the general plan update. And this is uh this is a place where lots and lots of good work has gone into the draft that the council has tonight. And it would be uh very easy for us to have a two-hour presentation on the content of this general plan. However, uh Levi and I and Justin have talked about an alternative to that and this is what I'm proposing to the council. Uh my motivation for this proposal is that I want this council to own this plan despite the amount of work that's gone into it, despite the effort that steering committee put into it, the consultant put into it. And while it would be easy to rubber stamp the work that's been done, I very much appreciate the council engaging in good discussions, meaningful discussions that would let us dissect, digest, and own the plan that we end up adopting. And so with that in mind, and Levi, I I appreciate your willingness to uh uh uh call an audible or receive an audible on this. This is this is how I suggest we go forward. So, we're still doing uh introduction uh before the public hearing, but here's how I'd like to see it go. Um, first of all, Levi will give a very very brief introduction on the content of each of the sessions. And our real goal is, and I know you've all read it, you'll continue to read it and study it. So, he doesn't need to give he doesn't need to to feed it to you. Uh, but our real goal here is, and Levi has agreed to try to help us get there, ask meaningful questions that may go way back from the current draft that will that will lead us to meaningful discussions about our city. And those meaningful discussions won't take place tonight. And I encourage not only Levi's questions, I have some of my own. I'm and and and I'm hoping that uh council members have some of their own. So, we'll send those kind of meaningful questions that motivate debate and discussion. We can send those into Cheryl and we'll get that those list of questions published before we get to a second reading on this. And I don't I don't mind if we go one section at a night or it takes a lot of readings to get this thing adopted. But I'm encouraging us to have that that that uh discussion and debate that that doesn't just say, well, there's a lot of work that's gone into this. Let's adopt them. Okay. So please, as we go through this, let let Levi's questions be the kinds of questions that I invite the council to to forward to Cheryl. Cheryl, are you okay with this? And then we'll get those in the packet for the next time we take this up. And I will repeat, we're not going to dive. We're not going to do the deep dive. I was, this is how we are. I was giving an example to Levi and Justin about the kind of question that I think would motivate a discussion and we immediately went to try to answer the question. I'm going to discourage the council from doing that tonight. Instead, what I want to do is collect those questions that'll motivate the discussion and then at a later time uh we'll we'll we'll do that be done of heads. Okay, Levi, if you will introduce this for us and then we'll go to the public hearing.

»Right. So, uh, first I just want to explain in high level terms what the general plan is. Um, it's a very important document. It sets a vision for our community. It it guides how the community grows, provides a and provides a framework for more specific planning of the NLY city. We're constantly planning infrastructure, public facilities, land uses, and and the general plan pulls all this together and guides those efforts. Um, it's often what we point to as a guidepost for for those decisions, those efforts. Um, for land use decisions, zone zoning designation, subdivision, and zoning changes. That said, um, it's important to note that the general plan isn't everything. Um, and it it's it's not it's not enforceable. It's not a it's not a zoning ordinance. Um, kind of to use an analogy, it's at the 30 it's an airplane at the 30,000 foot level. It's not where the rubber hits the road, which we often say with, you know, like ordinances and and things like that. So, uh, are there any questions about how the how the general plan functions? That's just kind of a a general over overview of what we're talking about with the general plan. Just wanted to give a quick overview of the schedule that that we went through with the general plan. And by the way, we cons we we um contracted with wall consultant group uh with through through the process of this development. They they they've been great to work with. Um, so we started this process at the beginning of March. So it's been about about 10 months now. And we've we've had project coordination with them throughout. We had a steering committee that that met about every month and and guided the process and the findings of the plan as well as public and stakeholder engagement. They they performed a pretty thorough existing conditions analysis. I feel like uh they understood our our community well as far as what plans are in place and and what conditions are on the ground. the there were uh development scenario the the plan and I'll go I'll go into to a little more detail the plan is uh what the way that we approached it is through different scenarios development scenarios and so there there was a development scenarios process visioning vision and goal formulation and then drafting the the map and and the plan itself. So that's that's where we came to. I also want to point out that the the whole premise of the general plan is to provide a guide for the city's growth and and the there with the assumption that we are going to continue to grow. So, uh, we with with the consultant's help updated our population projections and this this plan provides that that update. In general, we're we're expected to double in population in the next 25 years or or by 2050 to about 17,600 people. And the general plan provides um a guidance of of how to grow, not if we're going to grow. That's but one question to ask is is the is this the proper approach to planning our city that it's just a foregone conclusion? We're we're projected to grow. How are we going to accommodate that growth or is there another approach? That's that's the way that we we've approached this. that is the way that this the state has kind of appointed every city to to approach their general plan. But just something to consider there.

»It's a good example I think of the kinds of soularching questions we should be thinking about that would lead to a good discussion.

»Right. So the general plan is it's it it was informed heavily by public engagement. Um and much much of this public engagement was packaged as with in growth scenarios. So we held a growth scenarios workshop back in June and those same and really within the same week that was actually held during the week of heritage days but we tabled at heritage days. We we had a community survey that we disseminated for a little over a month and had about 440 participants in that and there's findings within the plan that you can you can point to there. We also uh the we also looked at the USU well-being survey. They got all the data from that that was done in 20 you know last year in 2024 and there was there was a lot of good information that fed into the plan. And then there were some uh a handful of stakeholder interviews with with developers uh with UD do representatives. We we had a meeting with nearby municipalities with uh adjacent municipalities, representatives from them and from Utah state uh who has has the significant amount of land in our not in our in our city now, but in our annexation area that we're looking at the the farms to the south as um as well as actually the coyote farm that's that's also within our boundaries. So the the these growth scenarios this is how they were packaged. Uh four different scenarios. One is growth asis. One was compact and centered growth that focuses you know a lot on developing a town center within our community. Low intensity growth. So li limiting density to preserve nibbli's rural character. um and then connected and active communities that focuses on trails and parks and local gathering places. So through this through this process, this this this was a a framework for the public in it wasn't meant to be a and we we never thought that it it would come out that oh we're going we're only going to focus on this one thing, but it was a way to package our priorities. what what are we most worried about? What are we most focused on? Uh we know we're trying to balance multiple goals, but but really what is what is our driving um focus as we plan for growth in the city? And so that's that's kind of how we packaged it. Uh but what we found is through different a lot of varied opinions and it depended on on the activity what we heard it wasn't there wasn't in a lot of case in some cases there was some agreement across uh different uh public engagement activities but in in many cases there was varied results. So uh for example the community survey participants they favored the low inensity growth scenario um quite heavily 53% so more than half uh they they ranked it as the highest uh the they I think it was a rank you know ranking of 1 2 3 4 and and then you could add your own. So some of them some of them said you know none of the above in that while within the growth scenario workshop which is was more in depth um obviously a smaller group a smaller sample size and and also at the heritage days table we we facilitate facilitated a way that they could um mark which which scenario they most favored in th in those instance it was it was the compact and centered and closely followed by the connected and active communities scenario. So um you know the planet attempts to balance many often competing goals and interests and one another question for you is how how should we approach this balance of competing interests and and varied opinions. uh the uh a big piece of the general plan and and this process was to update the future land use map. This is our current future land use map. Uh I'm going to now go into the ne the the proposed uh future land use map that's in the current draft. and and I just want to go over some some of the changes that that are being proposed. Uh many of the changes point at ways to provide additional um opportunity for economic development. I I'll just say that and I'm I'm going to go over those. But also I'll I'll say that in many areas in the community there's not a lot of change but there are some uh significant changes. I'll go over those. So, one uh change is really the the terminology and it's maybe a little difficult to read uh exactly on the screen all all the different terms but we currently for residential development although we don't define it within our general plan. We use the terms low density, medium density, high density residential. Um, this plan is what what's in this draft is using the terms attached, detached. Uh, we we did add this detached large lot for for lots larger, you know, areas really. They're 3/4 of an acre or larger. And then mixed residential, which which is, you know, could be a mix of of attached and detached housing. So this this is different I think in in some ways you can say it's less subjective because you know what detached is you can define that you know what mixed is uh we and it it allows for but it does allow for some judgment and leeway again that the general plan is is is a guiding document and it and it does depend on the specific property and you may need this if a specific specific proposal comes forward, there may be some additional um research that needs to be had uh and in considering that that proposal, but this this provides some guidance for for zoning decisions that way. Uh just a few other things to point out. So, one of the one of the things that the general plan suggests is that 3200 South becomes a gateway that emphasizes gathering spaces and and supports uh neighborhood commercial development along there. And so, there's this mixed uh neighborhood commercial area along along uh 3200 South. Not that the entire street would be commercial. Uh it but there there'd be large or or there there'd be there'd be pockets of of um neighborhood commercial development mixed in with with the residential nature of the corridor. Uh it also more uh gives more definition to the town center area. or current plan just shows uh this this area between 2600 South and 3200 South and you know clo coming in close to Main Street as as a town center. But within this plan show this is mixed use and um mixed residential and and mixed use closer to the highway with commercial forward. Uh so there's also supported neighborhood commercial and a future high growth node down here at about 4,000 south and 1200 west. So some some com more defined neighborhood commercial development there. And then uh th this is a pretty significant change in the plan and that's that commercial development and and specifically looking at this com planned commercial node you know south of 3200 south and highway 9991 is supported by higher intensity residential. So some of these areas on our current plan are shown as low density or even kind of agricultural areas as you get to the west side. And what's being proposed in this plan is in order for the commercial to be viable, we need more more rooftops in in those areas. And so it's it's suggested to have kind of a transition between commercial, maybe some mixed with residential with um some attached residential uh mixed and before you come into the the detached residential neighborhoods. So those are just some uh some of the changes to consider. Um, as I mentioned, the a lot of a lot of this points to trying to set up positive e economic development as our city grows. Um, accommodating our growing population while retaining existing neighborhoods. And so, but there are obviously there's pros and cons with these approaches and you you can consider, you know, what you like or dislike about about these different approaches. Um, I'm going to go over a few policy directions for the the general plan when it when it comes to land use. And and there's a lot more in here. These are really just teasers, but but th this is these were kind of the main takeaways as as I read and and go through the general plan. So, one is to cons continue to pursue the creation of the town center, support expanded neighborhood commercial along 3200 South and and other future nodes. um update our zoning code and this includes adopting a commercial residential mixeduse overlay, focus on the form for new development, um incentivize commercial development in these mixed use areas, um establish a new residential zoning framework that considers community vision market realities, enables a greater variety of housing product types. So, uh, pretty there there's a lot in there and and some it's suggested for some pretty significant changes to our zoning code. But a question again is, should we pursue these zoning changes as as we look for a major update to our zoning and subdivision ordinance? Thinking about all of these, are there are there some of these that you think maybe it's not we we shouldn't support and or may or maybe we give guidance on the timing of these. Just some things to consider there. Annexation. This plan does consider an expansion of the annexation area. Uh this on the west side of Highway 8991. So basically taking going west on 2200 south to uh west of 8991 which is which is different than what's currently in there. Uh this there is this area may be more efficient for Nibi city to serve with utilities than uh than Logan for example. But one thing to consider, should should the should the city push or or consider this expansion area? Um should there should there be coordination with Logan City on this? Uh it is it is some of this is within Logan City's boundaries or or um it is within their annexation area. So definitely overlaps with with Logan's annexation area. So just something to consider there with transportation. Uh some of the policy direction that it that this plan provides is focus on traffic safety measures through traffic caling. Uh improve street connectivity, limiting culde-sac. So, if you look at the the graphic there, when you have street connectivity, it it makes for a more walkable city, more direct paths. Um there's a lot of benefits to to street connectivity, but uh could be a little bit of a departure of of our uh it would be a departure from our historical development pattern that allows for, you know, a lot of these culde-sacs and um these these neighborhoods, you know, where there's kind of one one to two ways in, one two way out. But this this plan emphasizes street connectivity and then adopting a zero fatalities policy is the city's guiding principle for roadway planning and design. But a question for for this again is should the city lean into this approach of safer streets and increased walkability as we plan our transportation system or or take a different approach. Um, and I I'll say on the transportation side of it, we're about to embark on a a process to to update our transportation master plan. We'll dive deeper into these questions, but the general plan provides really the the highlevel guidance of where do we start, what approach should we take? Um, and the the these uh this guidance is in the current plan. I'm going to go over a little bit and I know sorry sorry mayor sorry if I'm getting a little too long-winded um on this but I I did want to provide some overview of an economic analysis that was that was provided. There's a lot of data in the plan on this and uh I encourage you all to to go through all of this but I I wanted to just give kind of a cliffnotes version of of what uh some of those findings are. of this economic analysis. So the uh in general you know it's no secret that we we have a high sales tax leak le leakage. So capture rate of of 34% which um in general that that means that 30 uh only 34% of the sales that are ex expected from the population that's that's in Nibi stays within Nibi. The rest of it leaves leaves uh our community. the majority of land in in our communities for residential uses. uh they they did the consultant did look at competitive markets and and this example is with grocery stores for for example there there's grocery stores providence Logan there's uh in Hyum there's enough separation that there is some opportunity for for economic growth in that area for example um but there are some barriers to entry with with online sales development costs geographic challenges is u I'll point to this. I'm not going to go over it in detail, but in the plan that there's a description of a strengths, weaknesses, and opportunities, and threats analysis that the steering committee did looking at, you know, at this this analysis of from an economic standpoint, where does what does our community have to offer? Um just wanted to provide a highle summary of that as as there's a lot of detail in there but um as far as economic recommendations go the the plan does point to and we often do this at the general plan. I mean the the general plan does point to other planning efforts but complete and update our economic development strategic plan with established resources and partnerships. So that uh it hasn't been done since 2013. So it's quite out of date and and felt it it was time for that update. um increased housing through higher densities. Just a few other policies increase higher housing through higher densities near commercial areas of mixed use and other residential like I mentioned that already. Uh but it's repeated in this economic section and promote housing options to ensure sustainable growth. the the population growth will uh will make the economic growth more more viable in the future. So a question is should we support adding more rooftops as a strategy for economic development opportunities I'm not going to go over these ones in detail uh for sake of time, but but the just to point out the other elements of the plan to go over are housing and really this is focus on moderate income housing needs and with the framework that that the state provides on moderate income housing planning that we have kept up on. Um the state's constantly updating guidance on this and and it's it's a big big concern there. Uh parks, open space and recreation public facilities. And then this water conservation and preservation section, it uh the state just provided new guidance that all municipalities over 10,000 needed to add this element to their general plan. They're very they were very specific about what needed to go in there. Uh Nibbly City sits at about 9,000 now. It's likely we're going to get over 10,000 by the time we do a comprehensive update of the plan. So we did include that in the scope of this plan as well. And we and it it's a good exercise to go through looking at how how we grow will um impact our water resources and what we can do to conserve water to be more nimble as we do that. So just in conclusion, it is both staff and planning commission's recommendation to approve uh this ordinance to adopt the general plan.

»Thank you, Levi.

»Sorry, that was probably longer than

»appreciation. With that, we open the public hearing. again paying attention to the kind of framework I find out for the council when we get to touch. We with that with that uh introduction, we'll open the public hearing and invite anyone who would like to speak on this matter uh to please come forward and do so. And by the way, if if uh as the council goes through this, I will take guidance from the council, especially if the plan warps as we ask some of these questions, you know, big scale questions. Uh if we need another public hearing on on this, we'll certainly do. So with that, there's no objection. We'll open the public hearing. Danny, please. me again. You'll be tired. Do I need to state my name?

»Yes. And 667 West, 3430 South. Um, I really like the effort that's been put into the plan. I like the approach of trying to understand all of the demographics um of people we need to cater to and take care of. We know the city's going to develop. We know it's going to grow. It's what do we want it to look like for future generations. Um, I really like the designation of properties east of 165 that are the larger lot properties. I think that's a good thing. I think it uh it speaks to our heritage as an agricultural community. I think in Cash Valley, we have a large demographic of people who want to have hobby farms and mini ranchets. And as long as we have an agricultural university here, we continue to see that. I think there's some opportunity in this section that people refer to as the south fields kind of between 1500 West and 1200 West to designate some properties towards that vision as well to maybe consider that. Um it's adjacent to the USU property where they do a lot of the animal husbandry uh teaching and things and so there's probably an opportunity to address that demographic. Um, other than that, I think it's actually it considers current residents, future residents. It's a lot of efforts gone into it. Thank you.

»Anyone else like speak? Frank, do you want to talk to us

»next time? Next time.

»I won't let you off the hooks. Okay. And we always we always you know welcome on the public record or off it's up to you. Let us know

»written uh written comments.

»Okay.

»Anyone else to speak in public hearing? Okay. Oh yeah. Kyle, please. And then I don't mention um does the general plan talk about the rec center that we want to bring here as well. Is that something that you guys addressed in that? I didn't see it when I was scrolling through the document.

»It does.

»It does talk about that.

»It's also covered in another plan.

»I saw the other one. Yeah. I wasn't sure if it was in parks and wreck plan. Yeah,

»it does.

»Um so, no, I like that and I kind of agree. I guess going on record that I agree that I'd like the idea of that maybe some larger lot sizes to keep that feel of nibbly. I know we've been talk about a lot of the um more dense housing that we've got, you know, maybe around the town center, things like that, but I like the idea of having that that same small town agricultural building.

»Okay. Thanks. Thank you, Kyle. Greg Henderson, uh, Cash Association Realtors, 110 Gorge Circle Drive. And first, Nimly, thank you so much for taking the time to do a master plan, take uh, taking all of the resources that I know this book. And this is wonderful to see that Niti is concerned with the future of what Ni is going to look like. Um, in my position, I can tell you that not all cities in this valley are as concerned and as forward thinking. And this is great to see that you are looking at a variety of different things that are coming with this with the plan. Um, as being a representative of Cash Association, I would always say please always keep in mind uh personal and private property rights. Those are something with the general plan that are very important to uh my industry and also to any residents and sometimes those will uh those could look very different. Uh we talked about thrills tonight and uh that may be one area of private property rights where you also have the private property rights of a developer. if they purchase that property and if they wish uh a vision period that does come into accordance with the Manchester plan, the general plan, that would also be uh something that we would very much like to see those property rights of that and uh realized and I do thank you so much for being forward thinking in doing such a comprehensive master plan and I would love to see how this uh evolves over the future. Thank you. Thank you, Greg. Anybody else? Okay, with that, uh, we'll close the public hearing.

»And can I just add we there was a public hearing held at planning commission. There were a couple of comments there as well if you want if you want to look those up. So, council, I'm going to call an audible on you here or suggest an audible. So, we we have a couple of guests from uh Cash County Fire District, Cash County Fire, and I I warned these guys that it was going to be at least 8:30 before we got to the item that that you're interested in. and and part of that was knowing that there are likely people online that are paying attention to the topic that uh you are here for the agenda item specifically number 15 that you're here for. Um so I'm going to ask and I I can make motions. I'm going to I'm going to move that we suspend the agenda and that we take item 15 and move it to item 10.5 to make it next and then we'll come back to the council's discussion of the general plan first reading. So I make that motion. It's going to there's a second from Nathan. I can't vote on it but I'm open for discussion on them. Any opposition to voting? Okay. Those in favor of the motion to suspend the agenda, please say I. I.

»I. Are there any opposed? Okay, great. We're gonna we're going to bump it up. So, that means next on our agenda is uh resolution 2537, which be considering uh modification and authorizing modification to drafting standards on 12 West. Uh, so Justin, do you want me to introduce this or do you want to want me to catch you off guard?

»Go for it.

»Me. Go for it.

»Okay. Let's start with um it it's in your background information. Uh so one of the one of the questions we left uh from the first reading on this was uh compliance with uh fire code. And so we have made progress on that. And we have Chief uh Brady George, fire chief Brady George and also fire location win here. Thank you all. Thank you both for being here. And I know you're here because you still have to get up to Idaho and you didn't want to drive back down. So these two, fire chief and fire marshall have provided us a couple of letters. You've seen them in your packet. Um, for those that may not have seen that, maybe our residents that are watching online, Chief Brady, if you're so inclined, maybe you're interested in reading the executive summary version of your letter. Are you okay with that?

»Yes. Okay. Thank you, Chief. For the record, Brady George, I'm the fire chief with Cash County Fire District. Um, thank you for the opportunity to come here tonight and be a part of making NILY a better and safer community. Um there was great efforts that were put in by by Tom Justin and by uh Larry Jose and helping us with this process. So I'll read this letter. It stated December 22nd, 2025, uh the Cash County Fire District conducted a fire power access evaluation along 1200 West enabling to better understand how existing traffic device configurations interact with fire and emergency medical response operations. The evaluation focused on typical first due response movements and access turning performance using representative fire and ambulance apparatus under routine operating conditions. Based on observed turning movements, lower profile traffic combing devices with reduced height, increased separation and placement closer to the curb line demonstrated improved consistency and maneuverability for emergency apparatus while continuing to support traffic calming objectives. The locations where these design characteristics were already in place, including 2260 South and Nidley Park Avenue, provided effective reference points for borderline consistency. Based on these observations, the fire district supports the resolution before the newly city council to standardize the traffic calming devices along 1200 West corridor to the lower profiles and currently in use at the aforementioned intersections. We really appreciate the opportunity we've had to participate in this event. Um Justin and the mayor came out along with representatives from Hyum. They conducted a pretty in-depth study of the different things there looking at normal traffic patterns to get normal response patterns and taking into account what we could normally depend on for emergency response. Um what we found was that those devices 2260 and the Nibly parking menu supported operations for those areas very well. Um and with the plan of adjusting the others to match that that that's a great option to keep the traffic calming and the safety perspective of that pedestrian and cyclist thoroughfare with consideration for emergency response. Happy to answer any questions that we have for us.

»Thank you chief. you waited a long time. You got to do better than that.

»Yeah. Um, some of the concerns we've heard a lot of is as a as a a pedestrian or a bicyclist or mostly someone driving a vehicle. If one of your vehicles is behind me on that road, what am I supposed to do? Do you do you have any kind of advice or thoughts on that as you looked at and so yeah, so it's more providing advice than anything else. The widths that are there are all within compliance with the code. And so really comes down to what are those normal behaviors that we see from individuals when an emergency vehicle approaches them from behind. Remember, we are asking for right of way in most procedures in that process. If there's not room to fully pull to the side, individuals can always stop where they are and we will create space around them depending upon the the receiving of the that as pass asking of right away from um motorists in the oncoming traffic lanes. Um as we kind of went through the study, we looked at it as I live in a very rural area. I I don't have large shoulders to move to. Matter of fact, there's typically 10 to 12 foot drain ditches down the side there. And so our only option is to move as close to the shoulder as possible and stop right there and then just wait patiently when they make access. Uh the biggest issue is if somebody pushes up behind you, specifically emergency apparatus, and they lay on their horn because there's traffic in the oncoming lanes that allow them to come through. They're basically telling you move down create space for that. So, it's a little bit of a a dance. Luckily, it's somewhat poorly crafted, but terribly.

»Yes. Very helpful.

»With the lower the islands that are the lower design. Um, you've probably had a chance to drive over them with some of your emergency vehicles. Is that a concern that if you pass somebody who's injured in the back that's going to jostle them too much or did it seem like they are low enough that it will be able to navigate just fine? So the at the lower height that was one of our primary considerations in this was what effect would that have on a critical patient in the back of an ambulance as we're moving through the space because we're able to navigate those at a slower speed as we normally would going through any kind of a a curb or anything in the area. It really isn't going to have that big of an impact to anyone in those areas. No more than would be transitioning from a road to another road that has kind of that natural flow through for space.

»Great questions there. So if you're on west and you're heading north and emergency personnel comes behind you with flashing lights and you're right next to the jersey barriers. What is the expectations of the drivers to do? What would you expect? How do you would you expect them to normally you pull over and stop? What's the expectation from your point of view of the driver?

»Essentially the same thing. Try to move as close to that barrier as you can to create space in the other lanes and stop.

»But there is no space there if you're heading north because you are already on barrier. There is no there's nowhere to go.

»Yeah. Then just stop. Make sure to stay clear of the intersections that are there. If you're really close to one of the existing intersections, attempt to move through to the opposite side and then stop. The second followup is in the heat of battle, if you're carrying something in emergency situation, do do you think when you're an adjacent road and you're going onto the intersection of 12 somewhere and you're going on there, do you think any ambul or they would they miss it? I mean, we're talking if a person's life depends upon it, do you think they're going to actually hit hit one? based on what we observed during the patterns. Yes, we will have to mount those uh islands in order to navigate those areas, especially under an increased speed for our for you know taking a patient to a hospital in uh critical condition. The lower ones will not create a significant impact to the patient in the back or slow that progress enough to really quantify. And I I think I understand that years ago my wife was in an accident. She had a hip dislocated. We're in the sinks. That doesn't matter. But we're driving down. She screamed every time we hit a bomb. Anything. She just screamed. I was in there all the way to the hospital. It's if you're the the patient in the back, you're going to feel everything. So, I'm concerned about it. it it's about the same as hitting a standard manhole cover, transitioning through those those crossover gutters, anything of that nature. Um, and you're exactly right. Patient that's critical in the back that has a serious injury that has now created that psychosmatic response for them is going to feel every movement. The gurnie that's in the back doesn't have a lot of cushion in it other than the cushion that's there that you're laying on. It doesn't have a suspension system. It relies on the suspension system of the vehicle. A large vehicle does not move as easily or gracefully as a limp pass vehicle. And so it really upon the operator of the vehicle to be cogn to manage the speed and the the kind of the pathway that they take to minimize those minimal B. Chief, let me hit you on the spot. I um when and I know it's outside of your purview at the cashy county level because we're served by Hyum City. Um, how often what percentage of the time that Hyram City dispatches do you think the Hireum City dispatches a fire truck to an incident? Are they responding to a fire or are they responding to a vehicle crash or a pedestrian crash or a bicycle crash? Do you have a feel for that for that uh percentage?

»So, I can give kind of some rough generalities. I was just pulling the numbers for for us specifically. Um about 78% of our annual call volume is EMS related. So we would send an ambulance and or a paramedic squad to those calls because we provide that EMS service for nibbly. That's how our breakdown is. Um when hire comes in, they're going to bring either a much larger, you know, fire engine, an aerial apparatus, or a light passenger vehicle squat into the area. Um and so their breakdown most everyone in the state is in that 75 to 85% range on EMS versus firework their responses.

»Yeah. And thank you for that. And we hope to put you out of business on 75% of that of those responses.

»We hope for that as well. We never want to see anybody that's injured or has experienced any kind of a significant medical injury in incident that requires our use. Um but it is great that through tax dollars we're able to serve our neighbors.

»Yeah.

»Um was the the experience you went through was just on west. Is that accurate? Correct. tweeting loop. Um I would love future discussions or maybe a business or something about um other areas of the city that that your your group feels needs help or or could be more safe or more accessible for for you in the future. I think this is a great example of what kind of conversations we should be having as we plan our city. So I appreciate you are willing to do this. So yeah, we are happy to collaborate in any way. We have those resources. We're happy to bring them out to run through those dis different assessments and build out scenarios specifically to follow safe driving practices as well as what we see which is common driving practices. John please comment. I'm finalizing a request for proposal to update our current transportation master plan. That part of that in scope of work there is to assemble a technical advisory committee. There will be representatives from the fire department requested to participate. So

»yeah, I'm I'm going to jump in, Tom. Thanks. I'm gonna spoil Levi's thunder. Do you want to do your own thunder on safe streets? Okay, I'll do it.

»You you can do it. Yeah. We notification from the Federal Highway Administration that we will receive almost $300,000 on a safe streets for all uh grant. And the specific of the of that of that grant is to do demonstration projects. And so that lets us set up cones and temporary and do traffic studies and involve the fire department um to to to realize that uh traffic calming and pedestrian and bike safety is not as simple as it seems because there's emergency response. There's always going to be, I'm sorry to tell you, there's always going to be an impact on vehicles if we're making uh space for on on mo on motor vehicles, if we're making space for bicycles and pedestrians. But this is pretty exciting, I think, and it's a great opportunity for for us to work together, fire department, vehicle drivers, pedestrians, cyclists to do proof of concepts on specifically 8 West and 1000 West um 3200 quite a bit on 3200 South where they have had in fact pedestrian accidents. So, um, the first thing we should do, go a little bit further, is the folks that came out to a special city council meeting that said, "Can you please do something for us in terms of traffic calming on 8 West and 1000 West is to get that list of people that attended that meeting, there was a signup sheet, and invite them to be part of this proof of concept demonstration projects that we have planned and realize that there's going to be tradeoffs as we talk about as we talk about safe streets for all.

»I stole your thunder, Levi.

»No problem.

»But I think you're saying, Chief, you and and and Marshall, you you'd like to be a part of that.

»We would. We are more than happy to collaborate. We also like to thank our partners um hire fire department and collaborating in this effort and we look forward to working with you and them in the future. Chief, if I may, um, this is all difficult, right, where you're trying to come up with speculative scenarios, right? And and thank you for lending your expertise and experience to this. I'm just curious as we talk about this concept of of traffic coming, right, and having these physical barriers in our in our in our city. Can you help me understand from your perspective what you experience both coming on and off of 1200 West with with the islands and then maybe how an emergency response vehicle would interact with say just a dip or um or a or a speed bump in the road like just how that felt different when you go over even those because we have some dips in some of our neighborhoods where sometimes I'm not paying attention and I feel like I'm about to lose a fender you know what I mean and where I'm not paying attention to my speed. So can you just help me get a perspective from from Gon even just the differences between the two?

»Yeah. So the reason we brought out the different apparatus was it was obviously it was very representative of what was there but we wanted to see how those vehicles would respond with the various devices that were out there and what impact it would have. Both an ambulance and a fire engine have a pretty high center of gravity. In an engine's case, you have anywhere 500 to a,000 gallons of water that's sitting anywhere from 1 to 3 feet above the ground. And so as you move over islands, as you move through bumps and things of that, especially of Campbell, um that water moves around a lot. So you can it'll actually kind of um create that synergistic effect of those herbs or different devices and create more of a shift. Um to compensate for that, we find that we slow down a lot going through those areas to try to make sure that we can arrive at the scene safely to meet the needs of the individuals that are there. Um the speeds at which we had to traverse through the different intersections was very noticeably different. Um those with the the lower profile, especially with that set back closer to the curb, it allows us to navigate those corners closer to normal operating speeds. Whereas the the higher ones, we did slow down to more of a walkable speed through the space to make sure that we did it safely um and didn't pose a greater risk of a gravis process. That makes it

»okay. We have more to discuss on this topic. Um, council, do you think we have covered the questions with the chief and Marshall that you would like to cover? If so, I'm gonna invite you to either stick around or leave at your discretion.

»Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

»Okay. Thank you.

»Uh and and Jason went, this is Fire Marshall Jason W. Thank you very much. Appreciate your involvement, Jason. Okay. Uh we're still on this agenda item. There's more to talk about. Um the specific proposal is to go from the tall curbs relocations. That's the resolution for the council. It can be amended. It could be you know it's council's to do with what you want. Go from tall curbs three intersections to the shorter curbs. Nathan um just as part of the background mention staff also having further information if we want to cover that at all function or

»uh it's up to you. We can make a motion.

»Yeah, I'll make a motion to approve

»2537. Can we just clarify that also includes that also includes the traffic study and the

»yes that's changing. So we have a motion and a second to adopt the 537 resolution as considered. Okay. And in this folder, green folder, this what you're looking for is just within the do we have while while that's up there, do we have additional background information that that Jason or Tom have? So I reached out to Stacy Parsons who is the contracted contractor that constructed phase three board and this last phase. So they have very intimate knowledge of this project. I asked them to look at a few things. Uh putting a center rumble strip down the middle of the the W line or broken line. I asked them to put a cross lane rumble strip. So, what that is, it's like as you're driving, it it rattles as you're driving, leaving in your lane. And this would be located south of 3200 South roundabout. There's been some people sliding off there. So, this is all inclusive. I'm just kind of going over this. Um, the other one was removing barriers at each of the intersections and sliding the terminal ends back and then installing an 8 inch tall curb. it would have a the white delineator posts so to increase visibility at each of those intersections. So the 8 inch curve is what UD do uses at at median areas and things and then there's some restriping and everything else installed and then also cost actual cost to remove and reinstall the higher islands moving them back and putting in the shorter profile. All in all, it came up to $134,310 is there for all of that. For all of that, that includ mobilization, traffic control, everything.

»Okay. So, what's what's new in there? I'm not sure if I brought it up last time. What's new in there is the rumble strips. Yes. So, the rumble strips would cost the center median rumble strip was $2,940 and the cross transverse ones were $10,800.

»Um, uh, I'm sorry. I'm going to ask another question. Cross transverse front. What? Explain that again. So the the in lane transverse uh rumbles script. So on the south end of the roundabout at 32 joiner south coming from hyum there's that curvature in the road. Every year a couple people just end up in the ditch. They're going too fast. So I asked them to just give me price and I asked them to do this two years ago.

»Is it the gentleman's property on the what would that be? East from the north. So 1,200 west south of 30.

»Oh, you're talking about the the roundabout in the middle of

»Yeah. 3200 south of that roundabout because you're going northbound. It kind of sweeps in and then you hit the roundabout.

»So they're ending up in that ditch. So just something to bring attention to the slow down. We have a flashing slow sign, but it people are still Okay. So I've been asking for this for a couple years and they they finally put it. So, so that would essentially be if you start to veer too far away.

»No, no. This is just to alert drivers of the upcoming curve.

»So,

»it's transverse to the traffic. So, the center rumble strip, that's just going to be a really narrow one in the middle of the

»Yeah.

»between the two lanes. That one you'll be alerted when you cross over and it'll come in that other lane.

»So, think of loading. Yeah.

»And you'll see the other kind typically that they're used quite frequently when there's a T intersection before the stop on the T. Like it's just to like hey, you know, let's you know, you have to run it over. You're going to hear it. It's supposed to get the people's attention and kind of wake them up. But okay, so there's three new additions to make sure I'm keeping up to what's in the resolution that Tom has talked about. the center line rumble strips, the cross lane rubble strips, and the lower curbs as an alternative to the jersey barriers at all intersections

»at all of the taller

»all of the taller intersections. Yes.

»So there's those three things and total was the total estimate is 134,000

»134 310.

»Okay. 34. Um, those three additions are not in the current legislation.

»Can I ask a question? In this case,

»um, I'm trying to you you you all who are with fire department or yeah, the fire department out there and discussing and witnessing what's happening in the letter. They describe obviously the lower islands. They do specify, the way I read it, further distance between them, right? that's just kind of how how they read it reads in the letter. Um and then receding those back further into I guess the intersection. Um does that need to be included or separated in this resolution or is that already met? Like I when I go out and I see the the later phase ones, I'm not really noticing really difference as far as geographically where they're placed. At least it's not stark enough to me where I can just see a huge difference. Is that are they recommending something even different? I know I know where he was saying yes kind of mirror what what's already there right in the later pie I don't know do we need to clarify with them they actually I think going even further back and and separate them even more because it says it here trying to separate like do we is the motion including anything that we need to change based on what their findings and recommendations are and hopefully I'm making sense That's what I'm asking

»because it seems to be like what I see out there as far as the later phase one what they say here do we have to change anything based on what that is based on their findings and recommendations or are they just basically saying hey we drove the new configuration and that's what

»I think that's what their letter said

»that kind of doesn't read this

»I I question but the line in another basically said that they were what is proposed.

»Okay.

»So I think our engineers based that's the guidance

»maybe I'm pitching myths here but I just the way I interpreted my brain it's like oh does that mean space further back or they just saying we drove a break? Yeah,

»I assume that's what they meant.

»See, the old ones look like stuff like that. They'd like you to do that on the first three.

»Sorry for So I think a good question for us to to ask if we sounds like there might be consideration of amending or adding some of these things to staff when they did. I think the question just to ask is we've already authorized city staff to make minor adjustments. Um these ones are just kind of more specific with specific budgets. Um, I I just proposed the question. I I don't think I have an amendment at this time. I I think that's where we're headed with those three other options. And some insight from city staff is like, would you rather see that? We're going to have to do a budget change if it's within this year anyway. But accurate?

»Yeah. I would I was just trying to look at the number. We looked at it last time. I don't know

»when in the budget nor I 50,000

»50 budget are making full to so that plus this quote we essentially put out my devil's advoc the kid milk cuz you know me. What is the cost of we just removing the islands? Not much. We could probably deal with our own crews. We go out there with a jackhammer on throwing. So it would be not a lot of we would probably be able to say s. Do we even consider that?

»You're on the council. spending changes on something that I do want to see the changes on the wall like you said though because what you described I was like fifth what Logan did along that entire thing where a little curve just a It would very much resemble that at the approach to each intersection.

»And then that that slanted the terminal end the slanted one that would slide in with the

»appreciate that.

»I guess that's my only question. Can we spend the money or do we just keep um I guess that's the question I keep asking myself and I offer opinion on that now I do realize that everyone in this room knows how I feel I mean I live it right I mean I live the storm bridge and so my my experience and is the reality this is the way we travel and I don't have to go out of my way to go here this is the way that I go so I do the bow bouts every Okay. And I have for a long time. And you don't need a big lecture. You heard me from that direction. And now I'm sitting here. And the reality is is I represent a significant population of people I believe that would really like them gone. Not reduced, but gone. And I'm with Garrett. I don't want spending more money to come back there to have a resolution to remove the whole thing. I think it's in their context is about the whole entire traffic common feature itself barriers that can be removed as well. So I would I have zero support for a reduction. That might seem ironic because I have to come out of stone break with the big one. But if I would support that, I think the council might think and the city staff might think, well, that's resolved. See, we shortly have this go away. But from my perspective, I don't want it to go away until they're removed because of my serious opposition to them. So that's my opinion and I know the mayor knows that and our property knows that but that's my perspective. I think for me like I mean you and I are coming in into this at a very interesting time. Um, and I try to make all decisions even at the planning commission now here, you know, with as much of a data driven approach as I as makes sense, right? To just supplement decisions. And I'm I'm just going to be honest, the f the thing I'm just finding really challenging internally is um, you know, we spent a year studying this thing, right? I remember the resolution that was what a year ago plus some time and and we were going to do a study. We did a study study essentially came back and said, "Hey, people are basically traveling slower,

»right?" And and am I that's a fair assessment of the results of the study. Is that fair to say? Um

»probably

»Yeah. Yeah. Right. So we did our study, right? Got the results. Um, and here we are discussing the agenda and it where in my opinion I still feel like for me I I just don't know if we even have enough data really to support any any decision. I know we we got the feedback from the fire department and I respect their opinion. Obviously they we value their input, right? But we just to me unless I'm misinformed, please correct me. I I just don't know if we have enough data period to say is it

»what data are you looking for

»any other than saying people are basically driving the speed limit right and and that's that that's not necessarily a bad thing I'm just saying like has it been it's been open for the whole corridor has been open for what since summer the whole thing

»months from A to Z right exactly that's what I'm saying right

»so and I'm trying to respect everyone's respective here. Obviously, we're all work together even this week obviously and it's like it's a tough situation to be in where we're trying to legislate changes on something that I don't even know if there's enough data to one way or the other. Frankly, that's where I'm at personally. I'm just being honest.

»So,

»I don't know. That's the thing. It's like there's not enough data to support one definitive answer on either side. It might think about Nathan. Do you have a rebuttal for that?

»Um, we have data. It's qualitative. Um, there was a lot of things that I thought input from citizens like those living in Stonebridge, myself, the others that we've seen that have come here and talked to us or emailed us. These were the ones that were most common complaints. Uh these were the ones that I felt as talking to staff that made most sense to immediately do as soon as we could. Um, and I don't necessarily, this resolution doesn't necessarily say go out and do it tomorrow.

»This resolution just allows staff to do it when it's most reasonable. It's us saying these are at least some of the changes that we want you to do because the original resolution included the ability the city manager to authorize minorities but I think it was a little too vague and I don't think it makes that big side especially on a politicized decision. So this was me with the current resolution trying to give direction for what some kind of consensus the council has of at least a few adjustments that we all know the citizens want and now that the EMS environment are saying are the right ones to make. Uh so as far as what data you're looking for that that would be what I would offer. These ones are all I feel very much backed by qualitative insight personal experience.

»But mine comes with a desire to keep the traffic caling measures that we initially but recognize that maybe they weren't designed the best to go around. So, this just authorizes staff as soon as available to possibly do some of these um and they're still going to have to come to us and I I assume they will more this just gives kind of a at a bare minimum let's get this done as we continue to maybe collect data. I I think obviously you know with the feedback from the fire department public health and safety respect to their experience of course we want to take that into very strong consideration and I also agree with Jared we need to consider all options should we do that right um I guess I'm just struggling with in my mind that it's like do we have any incidents do we have any like have we been reported any major issues I just don't know, you know. I don't know. I I just don't think we've had enough time for this thing to marinate to really a definitive way to decide what to do with this one way or the other. Just my thinking.

»Yeah. So, what I'm hearing is a lack of confidence to spend the money to make these changes in case there are further changes or a desire to get rid of it further down. Is that an accurate? Yeah, I I guess it's just like I'm just having a hard time saying I'm think this is right. You know what I mean? I just don't know if there's enough data to support like uh you know what I mean? And and who's to say, you know, if we leave them in, what's the worst case scenario if we take them out? It's all speculative, right? We just don't know. This is the fun part of what we have to deal with.

»Yeah. We don't we don't necessarily but I mean we do have uh we have somebody with a PhD in in traffic studies come and tell us that these type of intersections type of items uh and what they can do for safety specifically for that's the sign that we're working on is we have heard we've heard the science behind this we trust that that will work in our city as well and while the initial design wasn't the best design we still think that I still think that These islands will improve our pedestrian and biker savings. I think that the islands are the right thing to do for the people who are who are walking and rolling around our city for one more time. Uh there was an individual here that planned to speak to comes who has been texting and talk to me before. Uh there was I guess a incident you might call it at Park maybe Park. Um I believe it was because of a a lack of stop sign that there was a intersection and so there's been a couple of that's an example of why number three I just want to give I want to give an ask these are the things that the residents have asked us for from the day that these things went in is to consider four-way stops that the non-able lines are too big and that they need the uh during the night maybe. So I don't know if that's helpful. There's there's been some data, right? But these are the things that I've heard from residents. We talk to people and they come to speak with us that they want to be.

»Yeah.

»So if I can speak to that, I was there about 10%. It just was driving home and and I do think I do think that these need to be separated. I think they're loved together, but I don't agree with all them together. I think they're two totally different experiences. I think we're talking about reduction of of the bull belts, but that's a whole different thing than a study on the stop. I'm heavily supported with that. And I think the accident yesterday they cry out and say we want to stop at this location. The accident happened and I don't think the bulls caused or had any plan any of that accident. I'm not making that accusation whatsoever. This is a comment that I received from a few people when I was there and that was emergency personnel based on where the ball belts were had more door in the center more into the intersection and it created more of a chaotic situation. One man did text his name somewhere that said his child almost got hit because a car was trying to get out of there but because emergency personnel and others were parked. We waited the bull. So we went to the intersection the visibility was reduced. So it created a a dilemma because the traffic coming features were there once the accident had happened. So that was the feedback yesterday and again very clear I don't think the trafficcoming features had anything to do with the accident. I'm not making that assumption whatsoever. So I think that's something to consider is the fact that okay when things don't go right is it good to have them there and I still maintain with the roll outs you really can't turn you really can't turn into your lane turning right clearly and saying that in those lanes it's just not possible unless you're going one miles down if you're traveling just you you stop and you go you're not stay in the lane, you have to go into the other turn if you come in the opposite direction. That's the reality. And got to answer ourselves those questions. Does it fit code and can we possibly turn out? Well, sure. But that's not how we travel. That's not how we function in a society. And we have to be honest about that. The functionality of it prohibits you from honestly turning into your own lane freely. And I mean, I've experienced this for over a year turning right at Stonebridge. I know it's unclimed for me to say that for people. I I know I'm the minority here. I get that. I'm the I'm part of the majority. We don't want them We want them moved. We don't feel safe. We can't turn right when someone's turning left. You guys should stop and wait. You can't enter into 12 West if someone is turning left and you're going. You think that should never be a concern, but it is. You can't do it. One person at a time with the vehicle at an intersection. And that's what that's the reality of how it functions.

»Randy, are you talking about the intersection not working in terms of these terms when we've looked at drone footage?

»Right. And are you talking about the intersection of not working when people are not stopping at the stop line or are they stopping at the stop line but is there another reality that you stop at stop line and I know that fits code I get that I mean what 50 ft you're okay but there's the second stop and the second stop is a reality that you usually have that stop and then there's the second stop to make sure you can go into the inter 12 and I know well I'm not supposed to do that But everyone bridge does. That's the reality of driving. And that second stop, you're now going to go one mile and you're making that turn at a storm bridge going right. If someone's coming left, nobody you stop. Sometimes you back up and you wait. It's a one It's a onecar intersection. It's tough to sometimes exit it. So there's a reality of living here and there's a reality of driving it. I know that it it it's matching all the codes and it sounds fine is but it's like for a manual that's not how it's really functioning and I I I can't convey that strong hint. It it just hasn't worked out.

»You've driven the newer items.

»So when you drive over those new ones, do you go around them? Have you driven over them? Do you navigate the corners driving over them? Do you navigate them around them? What's what's your experience with the newer design?

»That's it. That's right.

»Same feeling about the newer design that you have on in front of your neighborhood.

»I do. And I'll tell you why is because what we're saying is is that those bullouts are there for you to not drive on them.

»But that's the reality. the fact that as

»well that as a driver but the functionality of why is it there is there to deter traffic from hitting them is that's that's why they're there. It's not there to I mean that's the purpose is it's a protected space that the driver the majority driver is saying I I guess I shouldn't hit him and you can it's easier it doesn't always matter as much in my truck but the reality is I'm trying to avoid it because it's a road cancer I'm not trying to go over why would it be there hold on hold on I'm going to step in here because there's that and it's normal for us to only have one speaker at a time and the way to arbitrate that is for whoever's running the meeting to give permission to give the floor to the person that's speaking. So I appreciate this discussion immensely but I feel like we're talking over one and I think uh I'm going to say Eron you have the floor and I invite you to finish your statement and Randy will give you a chance after that. We're all very interested in what each of us have to say, but I don't think we should get into a case. It's in our It's in our how we operate these meetings. I don't think we should get into a case where we're interrupting. So,

»I want to ask I mean I think they're called island. Can you tell me what I mean? Tell me from your perspective what is the purpose of these islands and how sort of to navigate over them. So the purpose of the items is to narrow the area to narrow the intersections reducing the time and distance of pathway between the alternate users, pedestrians, the scooters and the bikes. And they're mountable to accommodate the lower percentage user vehicle, the person that has the trailer, the person bigger truck, so you drive over them in most cases. So the object is absolutely correct to avoid them if possible. But if you have if if you if you're driving a vehicle that needs to go over the top of them like even the fire trucks. It's but that's just to accommodate that one to two to 3% vehicle that's going to be traveling.

»Yeah. Thanks. And then my only other is I drive over them next on purpose in my minivan with sleeping kids with kids. They are they don't bump my car at all. That's my only comment. I clean my and I appreciate what you Tom said there is really is designed in the normal vehicle not to have to do that. It's designed for the learners of vehicles with larger creators and a bigger truck out there to grow the top of them. I appreciate Erin's comment and I would not want to anybody. She asked a question. and I responded and I probably maybe said too much. So, I do apologize. I didn't mean to do that. I respect everyone's opinion. You guys have heard mine support removing and then putting the new ones in and when my desire would have them be completely removed.

»Go ahead.

»With the original intent, maybe Larry, I don't know. Are are you goes back as far as the original design this in the room or you think okay so the original intent of the islands um was it mostly to support the the like to to help drivers um mitigate the likelihood of conflict with the bike lane alone? I'm just wondering like why if in your memory um the Stonebridge intersection on the west even hasn't because we've got sidewalks all over the city, right? Um, and I'm just wondering if the original intent was obviously the whole corridor, right? It's got the whole design. Maybe that's the answer to the question. Um, but was there any consideration forever ago of like, you know, these are these the success of these is really we're trying to just help people not kill people in the bike lane and then was there ever consideration of like anything any intersection or even side of the intersection that doesn't have set bike lane, do we even need it?

»Would you like me to?

»Please do. Yes. So

»we in this city through a process of talking to people and writing active transportation so on so the board support the idea of active transportation let's start with that long junction. We support the idea of active transportation. The problem with even the bike lanes on 3200 South is people with families and people cycling with their kids and people that are asking their kids to use those bike lanes perhaps to get to school don't feel safe by a white painted line. And I'll go a traffic on my bike with a white painted line protecting that and say thank you very much. But in general, a white painted line does not support packing transportation on bicycles. So the idea is we put up a physical barrier between the vehicle lane and the bike lane and that solves the problem until you get to an intersection. Because now when you get to an intersection, this bike lane that's been protected by a barrier is now all at once now in conflict with cars. And people don't even realize, vehicle drivers don't even realize they're now in conflict with cyclists because cyclists have been out of sight, out of mind on the other side of the barrier. I've experienced that on bike lanes when I worked in Europe and I was amazed 30 years ago when they could have protected bike lanes and what in the world happens when all once the bike is back in conflict with a vehicle at intersections. And so to deal with that along comes the mountable curves because they do a number of things. Probably the most important thing is they make vehicle drivers face up and approach cyclists and pedestrians at a 90° angle. And you probably can understand the safety benefit of that because we spend a whole bunch of time on 8991, the great hypotenuse that crosses our valley. 3200 South is a great example of how roads need to come together at 90°. So that's vehicle to vehicle, but it's also a principle that is followed between vehicles and cyclists and vehicles and pedestrians. The infamous right hook is breeding passing by. I'm passing by. I don't see them. They're out of sight, out of mind. And and they turn right right in front of me because cycles there. So that's what the man would curve achieves or attempts attempts to achieve because we still we we've created a barrier to protect the bike, but we still have this problem the intersections. Okay. Let's go back to the idea of the barrier in the first house. And you've asked for data. I wasn't going to do this, but I have data. Okay. I have data because a resident from our last meeting of a paper. Uh this is on the themes.

»Yeah. Please. I'm only doing this because you asked for data. We don't have enough data on 12 west, but we do have um

»this this one roadside hazard paper.

»Yeah, please. So, this is a proposed guidelines for fixed objects in the roadside design. The citation is there. This is actually by was referenced by a resident and they were kind enough to send me the paper. It turns out it's not a paper. It's a summary of papers in the chapter of a book. But the objective of this chapter is fixed objects um in roadside sign. And the point that the resident made was the barrier that we have created to protect the cyclist creates a hazard for the motorist. Okay? Right? Are you agree with me? So here's a table of data. You can read the whole paper talk about how many of miles were involved in the math of creating this risk factor of a fatal or serious accident, serious injury for vehicle drivers because there are roadside obstacles. and the barrier that we put up to protect cyclists have become a hazard for vehicles. Okay, this table actually shows the opposite because the math involved to to calculate these risk factors for vehicle occupants and fatalities or or or serious roadside accidents. If you look at let's say row number I don't know what it is. It says a tree. It has a risk factor and and the example of how to use this table is is also in the paper. It's also if we scroll down, it has a risk factor of 60. That sounds bad. It is bad, but it's bad relative to what? So if you go to the bottom of the table, if we have a clear space of more than 65 ft from the edge of the road to nothing, the risk factor is 35. So that says if we have a tree 4 in in diameter or greater, we have increased the probability of a fatality or a serious injury. The vehicle occupants by almost a factor of two compared to nothing on the side of the road. All right. Traffic barriers. Several kinds of traffic barriers were also in this table. Row number two, risk factor of 15. That's what we have on 1200 West. A risk factor of 15 sounds bad, but the question is relative to what? Relative to nothing that has a risk factor of 30 for a serious or fatal accident for vehicle occupants. The risk is actually reduced by a factor of 15 / 35 compared to nothing. So here's data here I mean going the whole ar hundreds of bias of data that has been compiled that quantify what is the risk of objects on the side of the road relative to nothing outside of according to this paper that found very interesting we have reduced reduces the risk of fatality or serious injury to vehicle drivers by about a factor of two. 15 / 35 with the barrier compared to 65 ft in clear space. Uh, of course answer your question since I was also in speeches. I some of the first things that happened to me when I cancelled was was people talking about their kids not in safe throughout city nonspecific areas. um when the case work group or committee whatever you want to call it next to start to follow about 1200 west uh we specifically said like this is an opportunity because we're building the road it doesn't already exist I rode the midle and the roads that I rode my bike on were 800 west and 2600 south and highway 165 and 3200 south and back then they didn't have bikes right and they didn't have side boats um but different people, right? So, I felt safe.

»And so, I think that's I hope that helps a little bit. Like, why did it even

»Well, it's because we've been asked to and and you know, whether or not we overengineered it or those kind of things is up for us to to now talk about. Um I will also offer this to both you and Randy here because I remember being the first meeting and having development that was like this had a lot of years worth of talk and a lot of residents come and share their opinions and students most u so I'll just kind of maybe give you the options of what we can do today right so the the current motion is to approve uh your so your options are to to suggest amendments that you'd like to see to it. Right. So, and you talked about maybe separating some of this. So, my suggestion is is to consider some amendments you would maybe propose tonight. The other suggestions you have are to make a substitute which would be to then maybe see or to let's talk about it further and get staff direction ultimate any other kind of motion. So, The discussion is good, but I wanted to make sure you guys felt like you knew what the options were in your first meeting voted something that's been talked about and haven't been part of the discussions tonight like you asked for more data and you can say well there's some there but I get the understanding like maybe I just need more right and so my suggestion is uh to help guide discussion if you have proposed amendments or substitute motions to bring them up because you really quickly and see where the council's at.

»Yeah. And to be fair, sometimes no need to also get just a different story too, right?

»Yeah. I was just wondering my question earlier was just it's a consideration of the intersections with the right the banks because we we have plenty of intersections without the barriers in that are still be dangerous.

»Yeah. Yeah.

»Yeah. I'm very encouraged by the idea of this safe streets for all because we can do we can do proof of concept. We can do demonstration projects. And it's through those demonstration projects that we will realize that as we increase the safety of kids walking, kids riding their bikes, we're hoping to have an impact on you. Maybe it's it's an impact that we can't accept and we will learn that through these uh demonstration projects. We we we we can't make space from nothing. If we add safety for one group, it's highly likely we will also uh have an effect on on another group of users there. So I love this discussion. I mean I I think I think like a lot of you it's getting old and we're tired and but I appreciate that we are that we're listening and we're making improvements because I agree with Mike the issues with the what do we call the wall Jersey barrier making those changes I want to see those I'm in support of those uh I guess one at the intersection just so I'm not I'm Yes.

»It's okay. Clarification. And so, you know, but then I would make I think that's one of my issues is we put the money into making all these changes to make more changes later and spend more money because I always spend the money to make the changes that I feel people have said and from what I've experienced driving myself I think I've said multiple times in the past I don't know how many meetings driving sound is twist Barry doesn't bother me that. The only issue is trying to get on and off of the the road, you know, on the on the east side going west. That's such a huge gap with the bicycle lane and everything in the Jersey barrier. I think it's just confusing to people. That's why they do the like Randy said, the stop and then the second stop because you got to creep up in order to see better. But I think moving that removing that jersey barrier and putting in that a little more open space will actually help with that. Um and so I guess my question is is this an all or nothing uh table cuz I want to see some of these changes budget for some of those and maybe they fit within the 50,000 we already in the budget for changes uh you know.

»Yeah. Sorry, I double check. It's 40,000.

»What?

»In the current budget, there's a line item that is titled 12 glass mount modifications for $40,000. So Gary, oh sorry I'll I'll follow from what the advice this this resolution belongs to the council and the council can do whatever they want with this resolution. They can separate the three into what they want to do and not do the other two. They can add an increase in scope like we've talked about with rumble strips. The council can can can do whatever the council wants to do. And I respect the council uh for that kind of decision. But what it what it really boils down to is for us to understand the proposal that we're debating is this long board. And for us to debate a different proposal, we need a motion to amend so that we can talk about a different there's nothing that says we have to do all three of these. There's nothing that says we can't add to this. There's nothing that says we have to do any of this. I know that we get in the habit of having staff write resolutions. I remember the good old days when we didn't have staff to write resolutions. And I'll let my head I got chance to read it myself. But the the the reason we have a process that is a motion amendments is so that we all know what is the proposal that we're talking about. It's not all or nothing. It's not one or nothing. It's not all these plots. It's whatever proposal a council member makes in terms of a motion to amend and they can get a second not sure that motion.

»I'll help you. What do you want to do?

»I want to make the changes to the jersey barrier is in rumble strips as was proposed. Okay. So, we would I'm just filling this out with you. We would actually add an item four that says we would do the lower curb at intersections and we would do a center line rumble strip and we would do are you are you including the cross lane rumble strips as well? Just just ask him. I'm not Okay. So, we would we would put in item four. Here we go. Typing in for us. Uh,

»can you do it, Le?

»Um, let's see here.

»I I'd probably maybe Tom, do you want to work? Do you want to rephrase that for me since you

»if you got you got the scope here?

»Yeah.

»Okay. Included is writing from the benchm but but making proposals and discussion about my offer helps give clarity and allows think about I'm I'm not in hurry because I don't think we can do any of these changes due to weather anytime soon anyway but I do want to enable staff as soon as possible rather than matching so with if you still want to leave. No, okay. I guess in that case and I guess one of the questions I offer this is the one I'm struggling that's the part I'm struggling with because we don't want to create less safe environment bicycles for pedestrians but I want to continue to have some issue and spend a lot of money on more that may not be perceived as being working any better than they are now. That's the hang up. Do we spend this money to make the additions? But if we take them out completely, do we jeopardize in creating an even nearly safe environment? I don't really know. And so that that's the question I'm struggling at with this part because I don't know spend $100,000 especially if they end up in another year or something and collecting more data and something end up tearing them out or changing again. I guess I guess that's what I'm struggling with that why I just cannot sure where to go because I don't know which way the right way. So in that regard, I would like to offer a substitute motion and we continue this to the next meeting. We have a motion keep those first likely good a motion a second to continue this. That is a deb. Yeah, I would just uh invite the researcher to specific we as council can work changes or find more data or talk to more people that cliche. Yeah. Now you can try to do that but know that we have to get it right right now. Yeah, my input would be to add in safety features the intersections from Jersey wall changes strips as we're staff. I think that's what they

»that is not the motion that the amendment that we're debating. The motion that we're debating is to continue.

»I'm just looking for justification. That's good. Um maybe another thing for staff and city council consider again and this is more to number three. Um, I've heard a few. I've not witnessed it and it's been alluded to tonight. Um, of I think it happens no matter what the intersection looks like, but backup of cars navigating pickup and drop off at Thomas Center. Uh, when the when stop signs were put in an east west direction, there has been, from what I hear, I haven't witnessed it doing it myself. It was just the timing of my some some some conflict with the backup of both stopping at that place and then also the people coming in to turn into the school at the to the prior right just a backup of cars during a certain point of time. Um, and so even I guess what I'm saying is there's a hesitation or even concern now of like if that even becomes a boy stop that doesn't get fixed. That actually becomes worse because now it's going to take longer for people to navigate that intersection. Um, it's just something to think about or maybe have discussions with school about or to go just for ourselves and see what we think or talk to people whose kids get picked up there. Uh but that's just something that has and it's just something I've noticed or heard with.

»Direction is to talk to people who pick up there.

»Yeah. Or go at about 2:55 p.m. on Monday through Thursday or a game on space. talk to them to see if the $25,000 is worth looking into authority.

»Uh just to talk to them about their experience with the stop signs being put in on on Park Avenue and the conflict that that that happens on the everything west of that

»be more helpful to talk to the school principal and see what her I mean she probably talks to a lot of parents more than I've talked to in the next two weeks.

»Yeah. I'm happy to reach out to her and see what her what her thoughts are in this stock sign. It's just more data that I've got in this writing

»effectively. Is that what I mean? What is what is number three looking to achieve essentially just do a full-blown analysis of traffic patterns, behavior patterns, what is these inter does that mean? Is that right? This intersect. So um a lot of residents have come with the idea that four-way stops best. We've been explaining these bill analysis for us to do that required by state statute federal and state traffic signal. I'm doing how I doing pretty good. It's the manual of uniform traffic control devices.

»Please do

»and and the reason why I ask for this I don't want sad or nobody else instead of us one way or the other. So, uh, citizens asking for a voice stop whether that's valable.

»I I actually think that would be helpful because you put in these data assuming that these intersections will be busy all

»knowing how busy they actually are.

»I'm sorry. Go ahead. You know, but like we came down with the citizens and talking to others that we stopped at the Stormbridge section of 12 a tremendous amount of problems from our perspective. So I know the citizens around storm be exceptionally thrilled if that ever turned into a farway stop. It solves so many problems. We are going to have we are going to have um the junior high, the middle school opens up, you're going to have a significant amount of people crossing that road. And I know traffic can get backed up, but that would probably be the safest, you know, for children getting across, but that's not discussion tonight, but it would definitely be the study, the idea of the study that we we need to look into that. Is that a great option? It solves so many problems. It truly does. and so inexpensive in federal we already have spent.

»We've had this discussion before. Sure. I won't put you on the spot if you don't want to be on. You've talked before about what four-way stops from an engineering the traffic engineering point of view accomplish and don't accomplish. Do you want to address that or not? That's fine. I I actually did a little research just to refresh my memory on how to warrant a four-way stop. In general, it's like 6,000 vehicles per day in the major roadway direction. I mean, that there there's several other items that we're looking at. Um I I was going to mention earlier that we've been doing traffic counts along this corridor for since we opened it in November. We had a little over 500, a little less than 600 cars per day going through. We just finished another one just before Christmas. There's over a thousand cars per day now. So traffic hasn't quite normalized yet. So we don't know once it normalizes what that how many vehicles per day are going to be there. So even doing a study right now, it could change. And then um Council Member Spalling brought up that the Nibi Middle School, that's going to change it again. So, I I I encourage us to maybe set some t some money aside each each fiscal year to keep studying these to keep to make sure we're staying on top of these things and addressing them as they happen rather than waiting and responding afterwards.

»Um, so so if if it's stop fully stop control, a lot of people think that's going to help reduce speeds as well. It's actually has the opposite effect. There's there's studies that date back 60 80 years that show that when you put it in a four-way stop, it actually increases your speeds because people are in their mind there's been a slight delay and they and and they start accelerating quickly. The most effective speed control is just a consistent speed, nice, gentle, and not having to interrupt it with with those stops.

»Yeah. I I'll I'll also mention I I wanted to look at specifically the what the chicanees the artificial curvature in the in the road was looking like. So we put two traffic counters, one on each side of it and then further on on each side where it's straightened out and the effect is about 3 miles an hour and in the latest uh traffic study the the speed increased slightly in general along the corridor to about 40 miles an hour. So it people are getting more accustomed to the road and so it's just creeping up, but those chicanees are actually bringing it back down to a more manageable self-regulating speed rather than parking a sheriff out there to control speed. So if

»I can make one comment ones, I have not heard one complaint about them necessarily. I meaning that that I think the reality is we don't mind those in the sense that I think it's it's I'm good with that. I think many citizens are good with that. I think another conversation perhaps is the is the barrier with the escurve. That's a dangerous little section just heading north at a snow bridge on 12 west where where the it comes over that it turns into an S-curve where there's a significant amount of time you're facing an oncoming traffic.

»So yeah, sorry just to clarify terminology. The chicanees is that S-curve.

»Okay. the actual

»the sign that actually comes out and and curves it the jersey barrier is what I'm saying. It also comes out when that comes out into an S shape then that creates a head-on visual of another car coming the opposite direction and that's that's been a hazard that's a concern.

»So yeah, that's what I was trying to highlight. It's been very effective at reducing the speed to the design speed of 35 miles an hour.

»I think the road coming out is not the problem as much as it's the jersey barrier matches that and that's where it gets sticky. If it was if the jersey barrier was back off and follow the actual bike lane then it would feel much more safe.

»Yeah. And then the effect of that would be faster speeds

»perhaps, but I don't even know about it until we actually looked at it.

»No, that's why that's why I was describing the study most recently. I measured at at those curves and then I measured beyond those curves and there's a three three mph difference there. And and if you straighten it out even further, it's going to be a little bit higher. It could be up in the four four or five. Um Tom, you mentioned the north south church fate typically to Lauren a four-way stop. What's the cross? Is there a is there a cross traffic count to Lauren fourway stop?

»It it it does there's like an eight hour count. There's

»Let me check my notes here.

»So while you're looking, can I make sure I heard right? You said warrant is about 6,000

»in general. Yeah,

»we're currently at one.

»We're at one. Yeah, just a little over 1,000.

»Thank you.

»Yeah, it it it I I'd hate to get too detailed because these are just general sketch notes, but um yeah, there's a 4-hour study, there's a visibility study, there's combined vehicles and pedestrians and bike study. So there there's several things that you look at in these studies, but in general, like if if you were to come and say, "Do we need a stop sign here?" METCD says no, unless there's 6,000 vehicles. They say use an uncontrolled stop or uncontrolled intersection or a yield. Is there any objections to voting on motion?

»Staff, do you I'll just recap. visiting the job there. There were things we're asking of staff to provide for or for our next team to help help us with this discussion. Hold on to those words. They're not part of the motion or the resolution. Uh those in favor of the motion to continue please. I recommend any next item is discussion and consideration of the adoption of the general plan for first. Levi, I appreciate your uh I appreciate your thoughtprovoking questions. I appreciate your presentation in general. Um maybe by way of example what I'm kind of thinking of in terms of discussion promoting questions and this came from a Saturday discussion but I'm really starting to like these Saturday discussions when we can just chat. The premise of the question is that we have a housing crisis. Cost of housing in Midley and Cash Valley are not affordable. They're not affordable for our kids. The supply is far behind the demand. Question is a community problem to solve. Should the community play some role in solving that question? And when I say community, I mean that means the the governance of that community because we do things like control zoning and density and we we do land use. So I heard I'm not going to go any further because I hope that provokes provokes the thought and hopefully will provoke the discussion. There's a housing shortage. Affordable housing is a problem. Is that our problem? Should we play a role?

»No, that's the kind of hypotheticals It's not the question though. That's an example of as we think about a general plan for this town. You know, we need to we need to ask that question because depending on the answer to that question, our general plan don't have very different. Okay, that's that's all I have with that talking and uh we're on to considering adoption of the general plan for a first reading.

»Yes. So, I'll give you a motion to adopt for first reading.

»A motion second, a second from Nate, a motion from Nathan and second from N. So, let's discuss that, Nathan.

»Yeah. So, I know we don't have a ton of time tonight and so I'm more than willing to take our time with this as mayor suggested. Uh, as someone that was on steering committee, I still have a lot that I need to feel like I need to unpack from this. And for those of you that maybe have only seen this once or twice, I can only imagine how you feel about it. So, uh, I I do encourage us to take our time and I appreciate the mayor giving us that time, have really good discussions about it. It's going to require us coming incredibly prepared to debate, I guess, as well just throughout. So, that's that's all I have to say. And I think that that the questions that both may have those are good places to start. Randy, if you don't give me a comment, um, again, thank you. This is an exhaustive amount of work. When I got this Monday, I read 108 pages. That wasn't very fun, but it was I had to go through it. And it's an interesting thing. And I mayor, you've asked a phenomenal question that we would never leave tonight if we actually discussed. If you go on, let me give you one thing that was a little troubling. This is just so minor, but I have to bring it up. I just really an introduction on page five there's a quote that says just there's a quote it's from a person who wrote a survey is a great place to live we moved over 30 years ago when it was quiet peaceful barn ground awesome love that well I found the exact on page 108 at the very bottom I all the way up one. I mean what I call 1 2 3 4 5 that says great place to live. We moved to over 30 years ago when it was quiet peaceful real but that's not his point or her point that housing growth in is out of control. There has to be a limit to growth. There's no way that infrastructure can keep pace. So if we can make some minor changes moving forward, I think we should either remove that quote or include the whole quote because I think it's a little misleading to say one but not the other because that's not representing what the person said. And I think it kind of underscores the cognitive dissonance that I think is a little bit interesting because so many residents, you know, in the survey are really opposed to additional condos and town homes in the city and they're passionate about that. They want to keep it, you know, the world of country, the the farm atmosphere. when they look in the future, they look out across the street and then they see condos and town homes, they they get frustrated and they voice their opinion about that. So, I think there's what the city thinks sometimes what we need to the direction we need to go and what the citizens really want. And so, anyway, I appreciate the passion on both sides. And so at least the ground I would like to see before this goes too far is that quote either taken out or the whole cults put it in because it really underscores the passion of the city.

»Thank so let me remind I'm going to re I'm going to re restate what I should have said before what Nate said so well. This plan belongs to this is not an hour or nothing and we can add to we can subtract from we can augment you know any motion to amend is an appropriate motion at any point. This is not uh we adopt this whole thing or we adopt

»it's not copyrighted

»right we can we can modify it it it's not copyrighted and if it was it would be hard copyright

»so that the question then do we need a motion to amend that the statement before it goes to followup it's been public for a couple days I guess I'm comfortable with that statement Mr. part of it doesn't represent

»to a point.

»Do I need that change without amendment way to amend the document at this point is with a motion to motion to amend it that statement to either remove it or include the full quote. I don't think I think it's misleading which if it was one or the other what is the proposed proposal is the motion to include the full statement. Okay. What page was what's the following both page? The comment section went from the bottom on it right now. I think I can find it. I'll if if I have problems, I'll I'll reach out to you, but I should be able to find it. We have a motion to amend. I'm going to give it three seconds before it dies. One screen here.

»Oh, one more time. Can you find it?

»Yeah, I just ran

»just No, devil's act is probably the wrong way to say this, but

»So, we can't discuss it until I have a second.

»Sorry. I have

»No, you're right.

»I have to follow.

»So, if you want to talk about it, just give me a second. It's that simple.

»Okay, second. Okay, we have a motion and a second to

»because I'm weird like this and

»my wife would say yeah

»just because there's no way to confirm this is

»right. So so now we're on to the discussion is and we probably have to turn to Levi or turn to the consultants.

»Yeah, I probably have to confirm that. Yeah, because you're right. That is a bit

»Yeah, I was just

»Wait a minute. That's my job.

»I know. I know. You're trying to one speaker at a time. If you want to do it, I'll buy you.

»Hey. Hey. a chair for a year.

»Then it's just cleaner. Did you just make stuff We're going to make a motion to amend that and we just remove them.

»Okay. So, Randy, I'm just so usually we don't stack amendments on amendments on amendments because it just gets too much to unwind. So, instead, I think what would be appropriate is say I make a substitute motion to the motion to amend to simply remove the quotation. So now we don't have to go back to the amendment. We just consider a substitute.

»Okay. Walk me through that. This is and thank you so much for your patience. It's fine. So walk me through that. I want to do what you said movement. Walk me through there.

»So we have a motion to adopt the plan for first reading. We have a motion to amend the plan to include the full quote. Right. That's the motion to amend. If you don't, if you change your mind or anyone changes their mind about what the amendment should be, you can simply make a substitute motion to replace the motion to amend to say instead of amending to include the full quote, I make a substitute motion to remove the quote.

»I changed my mind with my original motion.

»What?

»I need to make the original motion to include the full quote.

»Okay. Okay. You don't have to make a motion. That's right. On this disitated stuff, right?

»Hey, what do you want to do? Ready to vote on the motion to you're not ready to vote. Tell Okay, you are ready to vote. Uh those in favor of the motion to amend to include the full quote, please say I.

»I.

»And if you're opposed to the motion to amend to include the full quote, please say nay. A two, three, four of those one in favor. So we're back together. So it's that got it. Thank you.

»You know my my fellow my actually hate me because they they do silly things that are not parliamentary procedure and needs. This is a side trip. I'll I'll get off. Okay. They have this concept of like a friendly motion, a friendly amendment. There's no such thing as a friendly intent. Once the the motion to amend has been made and seconded, it's no longer the motioner's motion to amend. It now belongs to the body. I'm done. Go ahead. Um, just a procedural question here. Is it because we just went through a public hearing even though this is not even adopted by the council that we have to go through the motion to change one word in a sentence every single time?

»You know what I mean? Yes, it is

»any well any anything. It doesn't matter if there's a public hearing.

»Yeah. Yes. We have a we have a

»that is the motion to adopt as presented.

»Yeah.

»And so now you can make it easy on yourself, right? If there's an obvious misprint, first of all, you can just make a motion correct, right? And and if there's if there's a motion to amend it just seems like nobody's going to oppose that and you think nobody's going to oppose that we don't have to go through motion a second way say I ask consent to change this word to that word and I'll say I have a request for consent and that's when if you don't want that you say I I object and then that is gone but if everyone say that's fine then redundantly The motion of consent is valid. They don't have to waste time on motions and seconds of me saying all these words. Say, I ask consent to do this thing. Don't abuse that.

»Right? Because someone should object if it's pushing the limits.

»I'll just add to that as advice. I guess I can spread it, but a huge shot from one place or even a great example that you have to do every time we have a meeting is the my recommendation is as you read make yourself a list of the changes that you want to include and kind of put those together in a proposal that can be a consent that we've all writt like it's been written and and legally following guidelines. open meeting acts shared and we can overview and then we can kind of go one by one if you want or just so uh so an example Randy when you just share this is a great example like you write that down we keep going right and you keep so that when it comes back in front of us each one of us kind of has a document we're like what about this what about this and and this is going to take a while but I I recommend the same including the minutes for okay it is it's helpful you can share but there's some that like are just helpful that I'll just share about share in the meeting people being considered that the suggestions just make a list of those Okay. Is there further discussion on the motion to adopt the first reading as present? Anyone post? That's kind of like me asking for consent. Seeing no objection, those in favor of adoption, come back for a second, please say I post. Okay. Five. Gary, you said yes. Five in favor. Let's make it so

»um I didn't pick up on any specific things for staff. It's just time for us to

»I didn't hear anything.

»Yeah. Don't lose those words.

»Yeah. Tom's we we paid Tom by the word. Mayor ask a question the agenda.

»Yeah.

»So we have a public hearing that's been noticed but that only need to get done tonight. Um and uh there's some others on here that we could probably go through pretty quick. Let's see about the first readings and modification. So uh again I'm maybe just proposing to amend the agenda and do the public hearing first to the next. So move 13 up to be now and uh and 13 and 14 to move up and then uh drive ordinance 2533 to go after that. I will take that as a motion to amend the agenda to 14 and 14 to current time. There's a second from here. Discussion on a motion to amend the agenda. Seeing no discussion, those in favor, please say I. I post. Um, I could use a small break. I ask consent for a three minute break. uh we get to council staff. Um this is a chance for Andy to make to to talk about whatever you want to talk about, but be careful because it's not an agenda item beyond council and staff reports. So, it's a chance to get information, catch up, talk about the potential to put something on a future agenda, but I will steer us clear of policy decisions, policy discussions that are not properly agended to our constituents. So, with that, Nathan, I'll give you the first uh I think I addressed a lot of mine during our meeting today. So I just have one which was um maybe a suggestion for a future meeting or we did um some goals a year ago on our first meeting in January. Um I think the general plan is kind of helping us do that for this for this council at least. Um but I I you brought it up. I think one thing that would be nice is is maybe um I guess we're going to send it send the the rules for the meeting to everybody. We will do that. I think that'd be great. Um but yeah, I think if we wanted to have a workshop I think will happen around the general plan about just goals or or things that staff and city council want to achieve that maybe but they might during the general plan.

»Yeah, I'm happy to make it an agenda item to formalize it so that we actually have that discussion.

»Okay. Do you want it to be an agenda item? Oh yeah.

»Okay. let me know. Okay. Anything else?

»Uh I'm very excited about the safe streets for all grants and be happy to be included on any discussions we have especially with that same group of people who we met with a while ago

»and yeah. Um, and the only thing I was gonna say pertaining to Nick and Randy, we were I was chatting with the the new council member from Hyum yesterday and she was mentioning, oh, I have this assignment. She's saying you guys also have assignments. Um so maybe just like clarification you can explain on some council we've had assignments for certain topics but on our council you know we don't necessarily have assignments for example um this year when we had the financial audit uh Nathan and I have already participated in an audit so we volunteered there and he graciously accepted um so yeah it was yeah it's been a great experience but um maybe just to explain like when different complications come up like oh we need people on this steering committee or on to help this feedback kind of have your schedule

»yeah excellent

»I'll be brief I like what we're doing I've been on this council where we had a council member in charge of roads council member in charge of parks that's wrong because that council member started deciding on behalf of staff which road should get snowplowed first

»and staff takes care of running the city. We're blessed to be big enough and we all pay staff. We have a staff very productive to do those things that run the city, right? But there's all kinds of opportunity on an ad hoc basis to say I want to be on that student will will feel guilty to well uh a couple things. I went to uh after judging Christmas lights, we went to the dinner and stuff. We got to meet some people I had never met before and had some great discussions and some good food. That was actually way fun. So, I love how many community things we do here. Uh, one question. I missed the USU presentation on city center. Is there a way did that get recorded and is there a way for me to view that somehow?

»It's on YouTube. Um, I could I could send I could find it send it to you with the kind of the time frame that they they it should be the beginning of it, but the first hour of the meeting. perspective and Well, I'm just off the cuff on this one. Um, didn't have anything to check really prepared. I just want to thank every given my first experience here. It feels like appreciate everyone's point of view. was like we're gonna work well together. It's okay to disagree, right? And we can be adults about it and I appreciate that. Um I guess let me piggy back a little bit of Erin's comment. Um with respect to um assignments, did we did Norm and K leave us with anything or we need to fill a seat in the interim that we're unaware of or or that they were involved in maybe as a council capacity that maybe we need to fill that?

»I think yeah,

»fill that role. So devel we we have this kind of if you guys got agreement with city okay we're meeting tomorrow when when you're ready for But that's

»I might I might need a reminder, but we have this development review committee we've been meeting with on developers a little bit on an ad hoc basis and I know Garrett's been involved. Nate, have we gotten I can't I'm trying to remember because Nor because Norm was involved. So anyway, there I don't know whether it's you or if someone else wants to be involved in that. I mean Nick was involved from as a planning commissioner. So, we'll probably get a different planning commissioner, but I don't Anyway, there is that one.

»Thank you,

»Mandy. And thanks everybody. Appreciate it myself and getting me to this somewhat coherent on some of the issues. Appreciate that. And I'm also top to serve or whatever is needed. to bless the citizens lives here and what we what we do. Appreciate that. I appreciate you, mayor. Um, you know, there's certainly some significant disagreements that I have with many things that's happened on 12 and I understand that. I think you guys do, too. I may feel disagreeable about individuals and their comments. I might not agree with what's said, but the end of the day, I don't lose sleep over it and don't take it personal. I don't What people might not know other places except maybe to here is that being in Stonebridge I've been there 16 17 years and the mayor was significant influence with Maloof to get it where we are now and I don't need to go into the details but he was right in the middle of that as a city councilman helping us mitigate some of those you know just some things that might have happened there that without the mayor's help would have not been capable of years. So I appreciate that. I have for years and so because of all you gracious I'm not sure what the halfife on that is but no let me just say that you have significant influence on that. Well, all I'm going to say about how this council will operate, I hope, and has operated in the past, there's no RS and beats behind our name. That means there's no coalitions that we have to make with them. Every item that we've come to is individual council members thinking and making decisions for themselves. And one of the best pieces of advice I've ever heard from a legislative body like a municipal council, win graciously and lose quickly. So I will have opinions. I I think it's within my right to share those opinions. That doesn't mean we both. If you want this job, I'm happy to have this job. If I make you mad, I'm completely open to peer review. Want you to help me do my job. Okay. Thank you, Levi.

»I think I'm good. I think everything's been said that I was going to bring up.

»I have an assignment for council member. You're talking assignments. I'm going to give you one. No, you are a part of the uh technical advisory committee, the steering committee, and this transportation master plan update. So, I'm hoping you're still willing to do that. I sent you the draft RFP% still just trying to refine it, get it just right so we can get it advertised hopefully next week and then get a new master plan with it till probably next fall. So other than that, I don't have any issues or having some serious complaints. Thank you, Col. I meant to say congratulations to our two new members. looking forward to working with you.

»Um, so first of all, city has a library. It's a very big library. Kind of small. You can really move all the books in the library here.

»You're feeling a lot.

»It's in our office um on top of there's a specific QR code. If you'd like to take a book and read it, we you scan that QR code, put your name that you have the book and then just return it back to us. There's books on leadership, there's books on small towns, there's books on all sorts of things that can apply to you personally and help us. you are welcome to library. We do have staff there taking advantage of some of those books and um you um staff this year has also started what's called an employee fund. Um this is where they can um voluntarily elect to they they put about $2 per paycheck into a fund that is used for marriage babies um re if there's excess in that we can use it to observe something like last year we observe breast cancer awareness awareness to our residents um that is open to council members as well with your finance contribute to This is just a card that is written from home to them to anybody despite what they do or do not but we're really interested to see how this works to have this opportunity to lift each other. Um I will be contacting all of you to get interest disclosures um discussing alerts throughout the state. If we can just kind of do the city above um from last year to kind of not make you go through that interesting from SIMS but we do um but again let me

»will you let me add a little bit to the library discussion. So, first of all, the library is open to the planning commission as well. So, thanks for that.

»Can I Sorry. Go ahead.

»Oh, are they not?

»But procedures of the city council ordinance that

»so we know where it is.

»It's been emailed to all of you. That is not an email. So, we don't stay in the dental app, but Um, have those emails you updated? Thank you for being

»So, uh, we we're okay. I just make sure we're okay with planning commissioners borrowing from the library,

»of course.

»And not only borrowing, but if council members or planning commissioners would like to add to the library, we have budget for that. Okay, we have budget for that. Uh, I'm sure we can find Mayor's discretion.

»We we can buy books and put in the library if there's one that you would like to see is available to other employees to yourself.

»So, that's all I have to add.

»Should pay special attention to the late fee on the consolidated fee schedule for the library fee on the cons east. That's not a bargain. I'm sorry.

»We are going through right now and just cannot reiterate enough to you how awesome their staff is. They're amazing and I'm a little bit behind. I have a few of the supervisors to do. But that brought to light. Mayor and I had a discussion. I would like to do believe I share what you like to call it with you all. And so depending on We continued a lot of things tonight. We may or may not throw a post session on the end of the next meeting to discuss my performance. So, I appreciate you guys put some effort and thought into that. And we didn't have anything real formal. Just want to have a good honest discussion, things you'd like to see improved, things you'd like to see different, and we really just want to make sure we're pointed in the direction that he wants to be. So, if you put some thought into that, I would really appreciate that. Hopefully, it will not be a third. So,

»yeah. A little bit of background. Justin is hired by the council, not by me, hired by the council. So, it's appropriate for you all to do a performance video with Justin. Uh we always do that in close session. One of the reasons we can do a close session is to discuss the character of uh city employee. I'm not telling you what you might or might not want to talk about, but just in case, we will do that. We'll rarely be close sessions, but that's case or go to a close session.

»Okay. Anything else?

»That's it.

»I have things I would love to tell you about fireboard. I have things I would love to tell you about Wellsville rec center meeting, but given the hour, um, let's chat about it. Not all of you on Saturday morning. Uh, I know we can coordinate not having a quorum. I'm happy to be involved in the wall say I'm planning to go meet you at Saturday morning and I'll keep track when I get to eight and when I get three sorry how about next Saturday or how about another I'm finding those to be discussions and working with you all I'm all about process all about the discussions decisions can only be made if we have good decisions can only be made if we have good discussions and processes Uh if there's no objection,

»please

»next weekly elementary.

»Um mayor will be there to that. Um

»um I'm sorry I should have brought that up, but if any council members would like to participate, yes, you're absolutely welcome to. They're coming at 12:30 and they're going to actually eat lunch here in the second graders are actually going to eat lunch here on the council chamber floor. We'll do the four through city hall and the box meeting. Um same agenda as we used with the heritage elementary school children and we're kind of excited to offer this to newly as well. We are covered but we like

»are you going to be there?

»Probably if nobody then I don't have to be there.

»You carry the load, man.

»All right.

»I I'll ask you. Is there an objection? Is there an objection to a journey?