Nibley City Council 04092026

We're light on staff today.

Yeah. Cheryl and Boy, you got a big hug. And Yeah. We're both at conference conference season. Not at these club. Did did Tom have his surgery? Yeah. How's he doing? Okay. I've gotten a lot of data out of his wife. Yeah. He's not answering his phone. So she says today was better than yesterday. That's all I know. Oh, one of the.

Very well. We're doing reports first. No.

I I have not.

Staff

reports first? Yes. That's correct. Yeah. I text her

shortly after. Talking about doing it, just give other staff an opportunity. Let's see. And I asked her how she was doing. But and then we had two staff that stay on the agendas. Stay there on the

I went to Providence, and I'm like, Jared, have you heard They kinda had the meeting before the meeting a little bit. But Good talk.

About that, but You can get a hold. So last week, you hear about Really? How she doing?

Well,

One being just a year or just I saw her. No. Still been there. Okay. Ready? Yeah. So she's really just coming back. That's awesome.

Has he texted anyone? Yeah.

Yeah. My break board meeting. Awesome.

Oh, she's done. There's, like, two spots on her. No. They don't think they're downgrown, and they don't think they're cancer. So

Good for her. That's great.

I'm sorry. He said we're helping He had his neck fused. I don't recall. Well It was fused. I think he had spacers put in there. So He told me it fused the other day. Really? Yeah.

Why did they go in front? You're my friend. Tails. Now that's how they do it. Because now in the seen you. In my office, I had that done, and they went right through their front detail scar. How's that? But she said it was worse than we were. Oh,

it's been you've been through that. This is better than that. I was like, I'll be here to also she's asking for it every six weeks for our spinal Tennis team. They said that we can get a cordless. Into your spine so that it goes away. I can't just Also, every system does the night. What are you doing? How's your insurance? Yeah. Truly. Yeah.

Phone. Transmission. No. Yeah. It's calling a day. Really? He doesn't have that done, but he could be artificial at one. He just replaced the discs with artificial ones and

Oh, okay. What was that? He's getting great. So, you know, it's all good. You just had one in or just my wife and I were talking on the porch last night, and she's 10. She's 10. Oh. And then, like, snap her in her. She's gonna be 18. I was just about to do it. Just about to do it. 50.

And you walked in the door. Yeah. The appointed time and the appointed place. Have we done opening ceremonies? The appointment's on. Okay. Let's let's do opening ceremonies. Who's up? I forget. Is it That's me. Garrett? Oh, yeah. Thank you.

Okay. Well, I just wanted to tell a quick story about a a tradition we have in my neighborhood and kind of what it represents to me about. To me, I guess, it's a microcosm of what makes Nibley special and, frankly, or a large reason why I wanted to get involved with the city. So every year, my neighborhood puts on a Easter egg hunt for the whole neighborhood, and every house puts out about a 100 eggs and the kids run around and go crazy. It doesn't matter who you are. We have people that come from even outside of our neighborhood come participate, and the parents come by and they all start at my house and we'd talk and do treats and the whole thing. And, even now as the as the weather's warming up and the sun's out and we're all walking around, you know, seeing I'm walking on the road, waving to Steve as he drives by the truck and everything. I think it's to me, it's just a good reminder of kinda, in my eyes, anyways, what makes Nibley a great place, and it's it's the people. Right? We we know we're here, and we talk about roads and buildings and pipes underground, things like that, but the people are what connect us all. And and to me, like I said, when we moved here six years ago, it was the first thing I think that we noticed, frankly, was Nibley is a a place where people take care of each other, say hi, you know, wave from the porch, you know, things like that. And I I it's something I've not experienced, in my life, frankly, to this degree, and I and I've lived in a lot of different places. And so I think it's a good reminder to us up here as we legislate and we go through difficult things and we talk about difficult things for the city that, we're we're it's all about the people, right, and those connections that we make and what we represent for the citizens as well. And so, that's kinda and it yeah. That's my piece, I guess. So Thank you. Larry. Yeah. Appreciate that.

My apologies for being late. I just came from a library board meeting that was supposed be an hour, so, obviously, we had a lot of things to talk about. Thanks for your patience. My apologies to you as well. Let's call the meeting to order and start with a roll call, please, on that end if we can. Randy? Randy Spalding? Nick Kenska.

Nathan Lowerson? Eric.

Larry Jacobson. Let's we we got a whole room full of staff here and a couple of other folks. Thanks for coming. So Justin Mahn, city manager.

Talon, Bigglow, assistant, city recorder.

Bob Dylan parts division manager?

You're the craft. Water waste water. Steve Olson, product first director.

K. Thanks for coming. I can see that when we put the staff reports at the beginning of the agenda, we get better turnout. Mhmm. Imagine that. Alright. Council, if you'd turn your attention to minutes from March 12 and perhaps tonight's agenda, I'd appreciate it. Garrett?

Make a motion to approve March minutes and tonight's agenda as presented.

K. We have a motion from Garrett and a second from Nick for approval of the minutes and also tonight's agenda. Discussion on that motion, please? Seeing none, those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? K. Passes unanimously. Thank you. This is a time now for public comment. We welcome anyone who would like to address the council to come forward and share your thoughts with us. Danny, You just you just here for the ride? Come on. You gotta contribute. Thanks for coming. Greg? Thank you.

Greg Henderson. Tonight, the address is 1451 North 200 East, Suite 130 A, representing the Cache Valley Association Of Realtors. Today, one of the members of the Council and also myself had the opportunity to hear from the Utah Association of Realtors representative at a meeting, and they talked a lot of the discussion was about affordable housing. And they had put out a survey that had some very interesting questions. I'm going to try and find that survey or get a copy of it. But one of the summations of the survey is they asked, potential buyers, what are you willing to compromise in order to get affordable housing? And one of the items or two of the items that they were willing to compromise on was a slightly smaller home and a slightly smaller lot. From the real estate side of things, we found this very interesting because that kind of shows maybe where builders are going to direct some attention and where ourself will look to help potential buyers. As a city council, I thought this would be interesting to show not necessarily existing homeowners, but potential homeowners are willing to make some compromises to get into a home.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Greg. That's good information for us. Anyone else like to address the council? Okay. With that, we'll move on to a planning commission report. Levi is actually at a conference.

I got another.

I was at the planning commission meeting. It was relatively short agenda. There was an approval on an administrative item. I can't remember what it was. Maverick Maverick sign, the the EMD sign, which which we actually made a change to the code to the ordinance to allow electronic messaging designs in neighborhood commercial. Mhmm. So it's their their proposal is in compliance with that. It the sign you will see looks like where they have the nitro price and the non nitro price, so there's a slight amount of animation. But you've you've seen the here's what gas costs. They might have to add another digit.

The first digit too?

Anyway and then and then they started a workshop on residential accessory buildings, especially sheds. So they'll be working on that and bring some recommendations to us. Cool. K? Any questions on what I saw or heard? Yeah. Here's a new thing. Let's talk let's do staff reports now. Some staff is some staff are already on the agenda. And so if you wanna wait for that, that's fine. But I see Steve is eager to get up and talk to us, so let's do it.

Well, good evening, council. Thank you for moving this to the front. This is really exciting.

We expect you to stay to nine tenths of the whole agenda and next time, eight tenths, and you can gradually move to

just this agenda item. Alright. I was telling these guys it'd be fun because when they're done, we can leave. You know, we'll have our things covered. But yeah. Just a couple things tonight. Just to let you know where we're at kinda in public works and what's what's taking place. So, we have currently got a bid out to ChipSale, 1200 West, from 2,200 to the, boundary. So 35, 3,600. And then from 2600 on 2600 from the roundabout to Highway 8991, and then on 3200 from 1600 West to 5th West here. So what's entailed in that bid is it'll be a chip sealed road with a fog seal on it, and then all markings put after that. So that bid closes next Thursday at 02:00, so we possibly could be bringing that to the next agenda for approval on that. Another one that is out for bid, I think there'll be a little excitement here is the 2600 South, 800 West to the elementary school. Tom may have touched on that, but that is out to bid now as well, widening that sidewalk from Nibley Elementary to 8th West on that. So that is open till the twenty third. So, hopefully, we got some we'll be bringing that up to the council as well on in May for that. Another thing we participated in here on the March 25, we have to do a sanitary survey every three years with the state of Utah. I'll just run through little things of of what a sanitary survey is because some you know, maybe there's what is this? So sanitary survey is basically a detailed inspection of the public water system done by the state to make sure that the water is safe to drink. It's an on-site review with the state. They look at our sources, facilities, equipment, operation, and our records. They visit the water system in person. They check how it's built, operated, review records, water quality data, and look for anything that could contaminate our drinking water. Basically, look at it as a full health inspection for our city drinking water. Like you said, they evaluate our sources, our, you know, wells, springs. We do look at the springs. We still those are still on there, but they're in inactive on there. So it doesn't go against any of our any points towards our system. Our tanks, our infrastructure, and then a lot of our record keeping, they look at all that because we have to send reports monthly, Jared does, for all that. So the goal is to catch problems before they, you know, affect the public health. Like I said, every three years, why does it matter? It's a preventative public health tool, reduces the risk of contamination, waterborne diseases, ensure systems follow the state and federal rules, and identifies any weaknesses before they become an emergency. So through this this, survey, it was Jared, Austin, myself, and the state representative was Carrie Moya. Went through the whole thing. We ended up with 15 points on our system. And that they call that an IPS point, which is an improvement priority system. It's a point, and it's due to our 1,000,000 gallon tank. We have some spalding that's taken place on the top of it. So it's not a bad thing, but we need to start preparing to to put a liner on it, you know, something like that. I'd encourage you. I don't know if any of you are even aware, but waterlink dot utah dot gov, that'll take you. You can type in Nibley City, and it'll give everything of our water system From, you know, our population, our bacteria summaries, the IPS points, and our water monitoring. So it's kinda cool. Can you give us the u Yeah. Waterlink.u yeah. .U.com. Yep. And those pop up, and you can I'll just you'll just type in Nibley City, and then you can go in there and you can tip on click on the different ones. So Nice. We've I have talked to the state today. We have asked because our springs show up on there. We have three items on the springs. So we've we've asked that if we can put that in there as it's like Justin will show here in just a minute. K. Go up, Justin. That's yeah. That's but on but on our springs, it it says upper spring, lower spring, and we've asked if we can just put next to it inactive. Because what it shows is it shows there's 25 pending points on each item that they've got us for, but it's not against our system. It's just if we ever activated that system, these are items that would have to take place to get it back in compliance. Okay. These are the the Yates spring. Yes. Thank you. Yep. Yep. These yep. So we do look through all of them. I think it'd be fun for all of you to come and look at that side. It's really kinda fun. It's there's some wood waterline pipe in there still. That's really cool. I mean, that's that's that's that's pretty neat stuff. So if you wanted to, just contact us. We'd be happy to take you up and let you walk around, and we'd be happy to take you to any of the other well sites or tank farm and just let you see. We can even take you to the poop farm. We can go see what that's about too. So

with that,

parks department, Rod's here. He can kinda give Summit a little more if he wants, but they're in full swing. Of course, we can see everything's growing like crazy. So he's talking. We feel like we're a little ahead of the schedule, but that's alright. Yeah. The Clear Creek zipline is down. There's a cable that was sprayed on it. So it's been taken out of service, and it's in the process of working through Burke to to get going. Along with the chip seal, I don't you know, you probably noticed the streets department out cracking, getting crack sales done and stuff. So for that project, there'll be some more mastic that'll be taking place on 3200. So it's time. It's a construction season. So Mhmm. Any questions?

When you say chip seal, are we going to a chip seal, or is this the HS for Nope. So

chip seal is going to be on our all our arterial roads. Okay. And then we'll be using the AP four or a slurry sale for collectors and residential streets. K.

Does the bid process include with with contractors? How well they let people know and do traffic control and Yes. Especially on the you know, you closed out a whole subdivision.

Right? Yeah. So we So there's points for that. You don't you don't go into We specifically put in there because with ChipSilt, a lot of times you can use flaggers. Yeah. So we've asked that they put flaggers in place because a chip is pretty fast, so you can turn traffic onto it relatively quick. But areas, yes, there will be Thank you. Closures, and there will be notifications. So Right. Yep.

I had a question. After this season, how far along are we projected to have Ridgeline or Nibley Park Park or or where we're calling that? How how far along do we wanna get through the summer and fall construction wise? A long time. A long okay. Or I guess which phase do we want to have done? I just noticed, like, I was I was walking through there yesterday, and we have a big sign, and people were, like, checking it out. It's pretty cool. I was like, so speaking of this one,

two, and two b. Yeah. Okay. Hopefully, should be done By June. By fall. Awesome. They're saying June.

We'll see. Mom's set. Okay.

Yeah. The bike park will probably be one of the first things completed.

If it's pretty cool. I get through there a lot just because I live so close, but they're chug they're chugging along. It's pretty pretty cool to watch watch the progress.

Thank you, Steve. Thank you. Rod, Jared Jared, you're on the agenda. Rod, you're on the agenda. Do you have anything else you wanna add right now? Hey. Let's let's go right to Arbor Day proclamation. It's Rod there.

Alright. And I'm here to present the Arbor Day proclamation. I'm not gonna read the whole thing. There is a little bit we'd like to strike if possible. It was leftover from last year. It's not necessary. It's in the second to the last paragraph

where it says

after 04/20/2026 from end through the end of the the paragraph there. They're pertaining to projects that were done during 2025, and it's not necessary for the proclamation in 2026. So I don't know how that process works. It was an oversight. That's something that

Okay. So we end it. Your recommendation is we end after 04/20/2026 in that paragraph. Yeah. Right? The highest part. It's that Justin has highlighted. Alright. Okay. We can fix that. Edit that out. K. How many years are we at with Tree Utah? Oh, sorry. With We got our fifteenth

stickers, so we're gonna go to 16. K. Cool. There were some great projects last year, not only the mayor and his wife's tree give giveaways that they're doing again this year and they've done for is it four or five years?

This will be the fifth. It'll be the fifth.

We also did a tree or Utah trees. No. Tree Utah. Sorry. Tree Utah project where they come in and they donated eight trees. They had an evening where they come in and taught people how to plant the trees, and we planted eight more at the Virgil Gibbons Heritage Park on the West Side to kind of continue that screen between the Clear Creek subdivision and Firefly Park to kind of block out some of the lighting. So and then in September, there was a just serve project that we planted 21 trees down at the disc golf course in Discovery Park. So and there were in each of those plantings, there were about 25 to 30 volunteers that were there. So any questions on the proclamation?

Do we need the proclamation doesn't say like, give the stipulations about what we need to do to maintain our status, does it? Do we need to plant so many trees this

year? It the stipulation as far as money ties is you have to $2 per person that are on the census. So there's roughly 9,000 people. So we have to put in roughly $18,000 towards trees. Now that can be my labor, my crew's labor. It can be trees. It can be equipment to maintain those trees. It can be tree removal costs, any maintenance costs. So it's not just a a specific cash amount we have to put in. It can be in kind as well.

Cool. Yep.

Anything else?

One last question. Do we have a tree lined up? There's at least one. Well, I saw two trees being used as playground equipment yesterday at Heritage Park because one is dead for sure. But can we replace those? Yes. The They're the new little ones.

My crew found that one had been used as a they'd taken one of the field closed signs and used it as a sword to chop at the tree.

Oh, great.

So that one may not survive as well. So Yeah. Some of these might need a little fence, a deer fence around them. Kid fence around them? Yeah.

I was gonna get excited when you said playground equipment and trees that we had trees big enough to climb. Nope. They're being

abused as playground equipment. Few that are big enough to climb, just not very high. Yeah.

Yeah. That's all.

Any other questions? Okay. I just appreciate all the support that you give, not only myself, but public works in general. So thank you.

So there's this proclamation. I'm gonna ask general consent of the council. You allow me to sign this striking the the part indicated. Is there any opposition to that? Okay. I'll do it. Thank you. Thank you, counsel. Right. Let's go to Utah department environmental quality planning program survey. It's a big one. Jared, thanks for coming, and we look forward to hearing from you. Absolutely.

I don't know if you guys have had chance to go through this. It's really interesting. It's top notch. So every year we go through this, it's more or less, in a sense, a very poor card that we're being transparent to you and the public. So with our sewer system, biggest part with this first reading is if you have any questions, I'd love to answer them, go into more detail with the sewer if you'd like. It's pretty standard. I mean, we do it every year for the state. Real quick, we are on schedule to meet all of our goals as far as cleaning TVing this year. So by July, we'll have those met. And as always, it's nice to have a pretty new system for a sewer system. So

Terrific.

Questions for Jared?

Go ahead, Garrett.

How many lift stations do we have in our system?

Currently, there's three. There's just three? Yeah. We do have USU has a lift station that goes into us. Okay. But we currently don't it's not ours to operate or maintain.

So Okay. Yeah. We're I know I know the one by the former Camp Saver. Can you help me? Where's Yeah. So we have one we call Scott Farms. It's down off at 06:40

down in that little dead end. K. And then we have one over at the Bullfrog Spas on the other side of the highway. We call that 4 Point Lift Station. And then, of course, Hansen's Lift Station's the big one you guys are aware of probably that's over by the old Camp Saver, the pet veterinarian place there. So

Right. Right. So four lift stations altogether if you include USU?

They come into us. Yeah. They pump it up, but we don't But it's there. Own that or maintain it. There's no funding that goes to that those station from Nibley.

And then I I guess my follow-up question to that is is we plan and, you know, and with future development and everything, is there ways to eliminate or reduce some of those as we continue to grow? Will some of those become unneeded?

So most likely, we're not gonna get rid of any of them. Okay. But what's gonna happen in the master plan is the Scott Farms would be moved further down. If that got gets developed down through there, then there's the plan to have a bigger lift station. I say bigger, but bigger than that one down in the Southwest corner of town, and then that would feed over, and that would eliminate that one. So we don't have plans to add more, but we'll probably move one in the future. Okay. So

That's the interesting tour. If you haven't been on that tour, that's a good one. Yeah. I actually wanna sign up for that one.

I wanna go see these, understand them better. I just you know, when you read about lift stations, I know there's redundancies and backups and everything so that they don't fail, but always makes you nervous when you're relying on something like that. Mhmm. We would never have a power outage that and something didn't work, create some major problems. So

We can kinda rely on gravity. Right?

Yeah. But not Gravity won't go away.

Okay.

I'll ask a question. Please. Jared, what's, like, the biggest challenge you face in the Yeah. Wastewater department right now?

For sure, the biggest challenge we have is just manpower probably to do it. We we are doing it, but, there's a lot of other tasks that go with it. But as far as the sewer system in whole, we are very lucky coming from a older system to this one that we can maintain it with the manpower we have. The thing I got the biggest problem with, which is the personal thing, is the expense of all the equipment to maintain sewer. It has got out of hand. Everything has, but for instance, a cleaning truck that we used to the new one that we had five years ago, 420,000. Today, to replace it, 650,000. And what they're worth, they devalue very quickly. And if we get too far on the far end of it, then we're paying a full 650, which keeps going up. You know? So that's one of my things. Our city is pretty well with we don't have a lot of ragging problems. That's when people flush things they shouldn't. A lot of we do see it a lot more when we start getting high rises or multiple family rentals, but we haven't had a lot of problem with that. So that's and one of the other things we're lucky for or lucky, we don't have a lot of restaurants, so we don't have the grease problems that we would get when the restaurants come. So with that being said, we are putting quite a bit of well, there's a $50,000 investment in the Hansen's lift station that you guys approved last year, and we're just getting started on that right now. And that's just to upgrade all of our sensors, our floats, everything to make sure that everything's running right. Water is one thing. We can always shut it off. The sewer does not shut off. So like you said, Garrett, it's gotta have the redundancy there. So Yeah.

Although we learned there's a certain amount of storage in the pipes getting to

It's a lift station. There's quite a bit of storage until there's not. So Right. Don't know.

Till you're Yeah. Filling a basement somewhere. Yeah.

I have a plan.

For that? The plan for

when that happens?

Oh. Not that we're hoping it happens. Right? And I just had a.

How is the new software working that we improved this last year? Has that really helped? Is that do you see that being a benefit?

We're we're using it, obviously. The biggest thing is gonna be is, I think, when we get one year behind us and we're able to come in and show you guys what it really costs, it's a good thing you're sitting down. That's what I'm saying. But with that being said, I everybody in public works is using it. It's It's really been nice on Sewer because we used a whole bunch of Google Sheets, and we were doing multiple things that we just eliminated with that software. So it's thank you for that. It's it's great. So Okay. Yep.

Alright. If there aren't any other questions, we do have a resolution that legislative body has to adopt this program survey that Jared has presented.

Aaron? I'll make a motion to approve the 2026 wastewater planning program survey and

dispense with second reading. I forgot what's that I would say that. That's fair. I forgot to say that. So I have a motion from Aaron, second from Randy. Thank you. That would be to approve resolution 26 dash o seven and waive second reading. Wave. That's the word. I'd hate. Thank you. We knew it. We that's just I like dispense dispense with his head. Discussion on that motion, please? Anyone opposed to voting? Seeing no opposition, will you call the roll for us, please?

Yes, sir. Tallon. Council member Mann? In favor. Council member Larson? In favor. Council member Mansell? In favor. Council member Kentskaya? In favor. Council member Spalding? In favor.

Thank you.

Appreciate you, Jared. Keep up the good work.

If I may, just real quick. Please. Yes. Just wanna say thanks to both Rod and and Jared while they're here. They do an amazing job, and we really appreciate our public works team and Steve for leading that team. They do an amazing job, and we are lucky to have them. Mhmm.

Absolutely. And the citizens of Nibley are our customers, and I think you guys keep that right on top of everything you do. So thanks. That's the key. Okay. Let's talk about, item nine. This is a second reading on a rezone of a parcel. I'm not sure if there's any presentation to be made.

There were you guys didn't have anything for me to add to the discussion other than, if I may.

Please. Yeah.

You had discussed the possibility of doing a and, rezone agreement. There was a meeting on that. I was not in that meeting, so I don't know exactly. I believe that it went well. There was a list of things that were talked about, discussed, and put into a bullet list. And that bullet list got sent to the attorney to draft the agreement, but I'm not aware that we have received anything back from our attorney on an official agreement yet.

So the Three I don't know if any any council member was in that meeting either. Okay. I I wasn't Wasn't either. I wasn't aware. But the thought is this is this would be talking about a rezone agreement as opposed to a development agreement. Correct. Okay.

So do we need to continue this then?

I don't know. Is there any I'm not sure. Is it a proponent?

No. He's not here.

So can can you just define for me what is a rezone agreement?

Re it's just an agreement put in place at the time of the rezone. Typically, development agreements happen later. They're tied to a lot of administrative issues and things like that. With rezone, rezone is a very legislative process. There's not a lot of administrative rules that you guys need to follow or adhere to. You get to decide whether you wanna rezone it or not. And often not often, sometimes, there's agreement associated with that where they give certain things if we're willing to do certain things as part of that rezone. So was that meeting at our request? Or Yeah. Yeah. It was a request Oh. At council when it passed for first reading was to I forgot that. Start that process and look into a rezone agreement. But we've only done it I mean, there's nothing in the box on that. Few times. Yeah. I just don't think we've got it back from the attorney. I missed her and got put in today. As far as I was I told I was told the meeting went well, and there weren't any, like, major issues or disagreements. We just don't have it back yet.

Well, this is not

Sounds to me like Wait a second. Need to wait. Yeah. I don't wanna discuss it until we know what the agreement says.

Or I mean Ron, help us. Sounds Understand. This is If not, that's okay. Yeah. No. I put you on the spot. You know, I haven't since our last meeting, there's been no updates on my end. I haven't yeah. K. Well, I I I suspect if the direction from council was to bring back a rezone agreement and we don't have a before second reading and we don't have a rezone agreement, then then it would be my recommendation to continue this. Yeah.

Now I'll make a motion to continue this item, ordinance twenty six zero two, for a third reading. Or, I mean, I guess, just Let's just say continue until we can get that rezone agreement and understand what that says.

We have a motion to continue, a second from Garrett. A motion from Aaron, second from Garrett. It's a debatable motion.

Nathan? A big discussion is that what I Yeah. We're right. Discussion on the motion to continue. Just one suggestion because this proponent has been waiting for a long time is my suggestion would be having them, like, agree and sign and bring that to us so that we can just I don't right. So that they know that they're gonna get what they want. And if we make changes, obviously, we'll allow them to have those conversations, but I would hate to wait make it wait longer than necessary. So just a suggestion.

So in other words, we have the draft agreement. We show it to the proponent. Say I'm sorry. Why don't you sign off on this? And then when the council signs off on it, it's a done deal. K? Alright? Okay. Yeah. And we better reach out to the proponent and explain. Yeah. I can do that.

K.

Other discussions on the motion to continue? Seeing none, those in favor of continuance, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Unanimous. K. We'll we'll bring it back again. Alright. And then try to figure out what happened. And then I don't I don't think it's on us, but ask our attorney, you know, specifically what happened. I part of the problem is

Right. A lot of staff's been

gone as well. So Never know. And we have some changes with our council, our city council as well. Some personnel changes. So why am I Joel isn't Joel Yellowhorn isn't there anymore. Sorry. Sorry. I was thinking in this city. Council.

Arne.

I'm like, I'm not aware of that. But attorneys. Right? Not this council. With an s.

Gotcha.

Stool.

Council. Yeah.

Right. Okay.

Let's talk about transient room tax then if you if if we could. Yeah. The only thing I was directed from staff to look into for second reading was just the amount on the percentage. So Nick was grateful or appreciated Nick's help in looking at that code out, make sure we understood properly. But basically, it says municipalities, the maximum they can do is 1%. There's some other caveats with counties and other kind of weird things that go on. But for municipality, the max is 1%, which is what the resolution says or ordinance.

K. I'll make a motion to approve ordinance twenty six zero three for final reading.

Thank you. We have a motion from Aaron. Second. And a second from Nick to approve twenty six zero three on transient room tax. Discussion, please. Yeah. The 1% is, like, the max municipals can do. Maybe you just said that. Did you say that? That there's other taxes on top of that, but this is what we control. Yeah.

There was a person that tried to come to the public hearing. You spoke to her. Yeah. I spoke with her. She said I I said we just finished the item. I'm sure the council would love to hear from you in a phone call, email, reach out to them in any way. So I don't know if she did. She seemed willing to do that. Okay. Just I I said I was willing to talk to her as well, and I haven't heard anything.

Other thoughts, points, discussion, debate? Anyone opposed to voting? Seeing no opposition, let's call the roll. This would be for final adoption, please.

Council member Mann? In favor. Council member Larson? In favor. Council member Mansell? In favor. Council member Kentska? In favor. Council member Spalding? In favor.

K. That's unanimous. Five in favor, not opposed. Yeah. And I was starting to think about future boundary agreement with Hiram because I wasn't listening. So this is probably one worth some discussion. Justin, do you wanna present it? There there's there's information in the in the packet on the background. Do you want me to take a whack at it? I'm not gonna go through all the background information. I assume you guys had a chance to look at that. Mhmm. See it, guys. Thanks for your service. I'm happy to do whatever you want. Whatever you tell me to do? How about if I just hit a couple of points and then you can fill in Okay. You guys can ask questions, and then we'll get into that'll lead us right into the discussion. So this is not this is a workshop. This is this is not up for a vote tonight, but we I'm looking forward to the discussion. I I would say that Nibley City thought we had a handshake sort of agreement with Hiram as to what would be the boundary between Hiram and Nibley at 4400 South for for some time. I certainly spoke with Stephanie Miller or mayor Stephanie Miller about getting, this this agreement in place because we know that this can get less than happy based on experience to the north, and I think we are trying to avoid that, with our neighbors to the south. It turns out that we aren't as close to an agreement on where the boundary line between Nibley City and Hiram will be as certainly I thought we were. And so this issue is turns out a little more pressing than waiting for someone to ask for us to accept a petition to annex or asking Hiram to accept a position a petition to annex because the Cash Metropolitan Planning Organization is looking at a south corridor, and there has been a study. Hiram was actually the project manager on that study. Bio West was the contractor to find out to to sort of put a line on a map as to where that south corridor might be, and 4400 South is the is the winning is is the winning location. I think I put a reference in the background. You can go look at that, the the results of that study. The motivation a big a big motivation for Hiram to have this road built is Highway 101, which comes off of Wellsville, from Wellsville heading east and takes a right hand turn, goes past a school, a middle school, and then it's Main Street Of Hiram. And there's Hiram reports that about 20% of the traffic on that is heavy truck traffic because it's connecting Highway 165 And 8991. And there's a lot of gravel extraction that's going on at 165 in the used to be the La Grande Johnson Mine. It's now called Kilgore. Kilgore. Right? So there's a lot of truck traffic. There's also truck traffic bringing animals to JBS. We experienced some of that as well. Wellsville's in the mix because Wellsville kinda has the same problem with Highway 101 going through their Main Street, and they would they would love to see that truck traffic get off of their Main street. So CMPO is kinda led out, with advanced planning even to the level of funding, not with cog money, local option sales tax money, but with some federal highway money to start the process of property acquisition. And so that's really kinda what's pushing this idea of this 4400 South, and it kind of folds into as you know, our Nibley has anticipated annexing up to 4400 South. It's in our future annexation map. And even to the point of agreeing with what kind of land uses and access management there would be on this on this southern corridor. Maybe you saw on the packet, it's it was interesting to me to see Hiram's annexation plan from 2002. Three. Three. Thanks. Maybe it was something like that. Yep. And they pretty much which is fine. They pretty much put there it is. Put in their annexation plan going north all the way to whatever the current Nibley boundary was at the time. And cities often have overlapping annexation plans, and there are ways to work that out. One of which is with boundary commissions and Cache County Council, and I think a better way is for us to come to an agreement on it. The stickiness back to the stickiness on the road, executive Danes said in a meeting with Hiram and Wellsville and Nibley that the county has a policy that they're not in favor of building and owning a road that is owned, that is buried within a municipality that that should be a road owned and maintained by the municipality instead of instead of, by the county. In fact, the county on the old State Road 238 that do you know which one that is? It it was once a state road. Goes through Nibley, Millville, Providence, River Heights, and Logan. It it's a great bike route. It's a good active transportation route. The county now owns that road for different reasons. There was a swap with the state to get 10th West built and have Udot own 10th West. And the county would actually like to divest that road to the municipalities that it travels through. And it's that same policy that executive Dane said, yeah. We're not so excited about the county building and maintaining a road if it's if it's the same city on both sides of the road. And so, again, that's that's kinda what's pushing property acquisition on the South Corridor and 4400 South. Hiram has a proposal. It's in the box as to what they thought would be a good dividing line between Nibley and Hiram. It's there it is. Thank you. It's substantially different than the line at 4400 South. So That's Hiram felt like this was a good compromise because it allocated about half of the area currently between Nibali and Hiram to Hiram's annexation and about half of the area between our towns to Nibley annexation. With Justin's help, we pushed back a bit to say, yeah, but we actually would we see that road that CMPO might be willing to build, Cash County might be willing to build as an opportunity for Nibley, and we've that we kinda feel like we're getting pushed off the road. And so we sorta hashed that out without a without a solution. Am I missing anything from the background information?

Any questions, Justin? What am I missing? I just wanna make sure the map makes sense to everybody. I had some questions today. The this line Right. Is kind of a diagonal line that follows the properties. The right side being more red would be what they're proposing to be nimbly, and the left side would be blue Mhmm. Which is obviously Hiram. The only thing that they, you know, they want I guess one other thing they keep pointing out is that they have their sewer treatment plant down here that needs some space around it. Whether there's enough or not there now is questionable. I think it's also just a matter of what goes near that treatment plant and what goes near what they hope to be future industrial projects, and I think they're worried about any sort of residential bumping up against that. Is there is a concern that they mentioned?

I think that's everything. And we'll pick up anything else. Erin, you have a question or Yeah. So in in the agenda item report

point four Mhmm. And and for b, c, and d, it so it talks about these meetings that we had on 03/19/2025. So that was a year ago. We're talking about a meeting that happened a year ago. And an IPO. Okay. That was supposed to be this year. '26. That's a recent meeting. The new Thank you. Mayor is named mayor

Miller. Steve Miller. Okay. That's very confusing because I thought that we were talking about Stephanie Miller a year ago. This is all all the meetings have been with Steve Miller. This is the new mayor. Okay. 96. I wonder where else that was wrong.

Okay. So What we're having through the year, and I still can't get on to That's alright. So this proposition came from Steve. His name's denoted up there in the corner. Steve Miller, mayor Steve Miller. Yes. Yes. And we got this recently as in March. Everything in March should be 2026,

not 2025. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. And and we we, you know, we had the 2023 I don't know. This the Nibley City Council, well, I was between council and mayors. That's how I marked time. Sent a and that was in the box. Sent a unsigned draft to Hiram, and they haven't they didn't take it up.

That's the one that had the 06/1965. It's not the one that had that we were reading that had the 660 foot Access spacing. The barrier that was no residential within 660 feet of 4,400.

Yeah. And if you look at our proposal on the general plan, I mean, that's that's not residential

Right. North

of 4400 South. It's industrial as an anticipated land use.

Yep. So on point nine, when it says Nibali offered to consider and possibly propose a different boundary between Hiram and Nibali, was that the one you're referring to, or you mean this was more recently?

So in the last meeting, whatever it was, 03/24/2026, there, I can fix that. I'm gonna call this the Justin Mahn Proposal. Alternative. Alright. So let's let Justin talk about that. I thought it was a brain I thought it was a a brilliant

But we but there's not a picture of you this proposal. Correct? It's too nebulous. Okay. It's just a concept. Okay. Right. Can you I'm sorry. I got distracted for a second. Which point are we talking about? So this is the idea that

if if the county really is okay with one city being on both sides of the road, what if go ahead. Yeah. So what I because I've made a point that it's about its frontage as much as it is acreage of land on 4400 South, and they kept saying how equal it was. And, like, well, you own three quarters of the frontage. How about we split the road east west, and then we'll have some frontage on 44 North and south, and you will have north and south. And everyone kind of looked at each other and thought about it for a minute. But what that would mean is somewhere in here so there here is 165, the dip in Hiram. We currently are annexed right to 4400 South, but they are a little bit few blocks south along this black line. So there is some room here where if we wanted to get a block or two on the South side of 4400 South, we could make an agreement to annex that. And then they we in exchange for them having stuff on the North Side on this West Side. I think the line would have to be probably not a fifty fifty because JBS, you know, JBS is pretty

Embedded Yeah. In Yeah. 12th West Yeah. And probably wanna grow west.

Mhmm. But I'm kinda surprised property on 12th West to the north of their current plant. They own a lot of property all over the place. Right. Where do my parcel boundaries go? Where'd they go? Which one are you looking for? The parcel boundaries.

Top parcel boundaries. Timeline

from the cash CMPO or from the county about are they pushing us as far as, like, we would like this figured out by x what's that date? Glad you asked.

One of the March 2026 dates. That would have been '9 03/19/2026. Exactly. Dane said, you guys will figure this out. Come back with the deliverable. I wanted specifics. The dev deliverable would be a non overlapping future annexation boundary between the towns and have it figured out in four weeks. Oh. So we missed that.

Well, not yet. It's only the ninth. Right?

March. Yeah. Yeah. Was it a month ago? Some ten days. Right. Okay. I don't think we'll get there, though.

You have a scheduled meeting with Hiram?

We had a meeting after the nineteenth on the twenty fourth. But do you mean do you have an upcoming scheduled meeting? Yeah. But it's at the four week deadline. After how

we talked about how fast we needed to have it. They proposed a meeting that was,

Like, five weeks after the first after the after when when the deadline was given to us. Okay. But

it's it's But, mayor, if I may, like, I I guess, to be clear, what exactly are we asking for? I think we're asking for the council to give us ideas on what to give, what to take, how you know, what hills to die on. Should we should we not pursue this? Should we just, you know, let the property owners duke it out and city shop and us try to figure it out like we have with Logan, or do we wanna try to come to some agreeable solution that we both can be happy with and hopefully stick to?

Right. What would the council like to see me and Justin do with Hiram on this?

You know what?

I agree with you on 4,400. If that's going through, we want frontage. And if we're getting and I like Justin's idea of getting both sides of that for however many blocks going west until Hiram gets a little bit and it goes north. I mean, I'd probably be okay with a little give and take there, but I don't think we should give up any frontage on 4400. Just as a potential future commercial opportunities? Yeah. There's way too many opportunities for for namely on that. Yeah. I'm not gonna get And I think they might be

industrial in nature as as much as commercial. I think I'm not sure that people are gonna go shopping on 4400 South, but, obviously, there's room for industry there.

One quick point is a lot of this Northwestern area up in here is owned and operated as the USU. Yeah. So there's really not a lot of advantage for them to annex into anybody, tax wise. So, I mean, a big chunk of this area right here really is not of

You almost question whether the, excuse me, the university would even wanna annex anyways to any city. Why would they?

They're already getting sewer service from us. And water. And water per the previous discussion. Right? But that is one of the, I think, sort of remaining questions about where 4400 South would oh, sorry. Not where 4400 South would be, but where the South Corridor would be because it run 4400 South actually runs into university property. Right. There's a line at more like 4300 South that has a county right of way, but USU has said you're not gonna we don't want you to split our fields by putting this road between our fields, but I think that's to be worked out with USU. But that's a good point. I think Hiram was actually generous in their total acreage by including USU in And theirs? Their acreage.

Yeah. They actually owned quite a bit over here as well. This is already in Wellsville. Right. But USU kind of because for a minute, they were telling us they were really pushing for access and frontage on the $89.91, but that would leave them this slot, I think, is the only one that isn't USU that they highlighted. So, not sure that was a why that was so important. But anyway, there's just a lot of USU property out in here that's kinda taking up space. I will say just for that study that Mayer referenced on 4400 South kinda came west, if you can follow my cursor here for a while. And then there's some some question about what to do in this area, and likely would would cup curve up and line up with the 44 4300 and go through USU. Now they do not like that at all, but that's the most viable probably option for, the county to move forward. And then going west here for Wellsville, that's I mean, that's kind of a roll the dice on what kind of property you could purchase through there to make a connection. But that's their hope was to connect in this area all the way over to this road so that they actually, this road to Highway 23 right here. Right. Because right now, it comes right into the middle of their town, kinda does this little loop through town. They'd love to see that cut off. So I think we have some advantage that that, you know, that this really is a Wellsville Hiram Roadway. And if we the the rest of the county wanna chip in to help pay for that, there ought to be some benefit to Yeah. Everybody.

Yeah. Wellsville is a relative newcomer to this discussion. They haven't been part of a South Corridor discussion

Yeah.

Considered in this previous study, but it makes sense to you know, if we're trying to take traffic off of Hiram's Main Street, why not also do that for Wellsville truck traffic? Mhmm. Yeah. So if we list options, Justin did a good job already. You know? Maybe maybe we say, yeah, maybe 4400 South isn't that big a deal. Maybe the acreage isn't that big a deal. Maybe the frontage isn't that big a deal. Just let it play out with annexation petitions that come in one at a time. I always thought it would be nice. Now I'm or I'm arguing, and I shouldn't I always thought it would be nice to have a delineation between our towns. I thought this industrial thing would be a nice delineation. Yeah. Nice straight line. Nice delineation.

Yeah. The petition when they put this put the cities against each other has never worked out very well for us.

Yeah. It lets developers drive the boat. Yeah. No. The city shop. Right.

I think a delineation would be in everyone's favor.

Has there has there been a history of let's say we delineate and pseudo agree. I mean, these things are never I mean, we can't these things can't be, like, set in stone. Obviously, they're just an agreement. Is it have we ever had that and say, well, sorry. We're gonna do this at this. I think they can. Oh, they can. Okay. We can we can say it's this is it.

They could write it such that this is the agreement and the there's always a way to change the agreement, but it requires Both body? Both bar both parties to agree to a change. Is that where you're headed, Nathan? Go ahead. Yeah.

You know, as you look at the the proposal, 11 dash two or 11.2 in the thing, you know, there's language in there. Is this the old one? And then we just kind of have started to tweak it.

We haven't tweaked it all yet. Just the same. This is what the Nibley City Council said to the Hiram Building Council. Right? And they did not at that time. And in your conversations,

has this document come up again? Is that where this

I tried to show it to them. They didn't wanna see it. Okay. But we didn't adopt it. I mean, that's

that's, to me, the next step is is get it in writing and sign it. And it feels like you guys have started the legwork to get there. But there's, you know, there's language in this this one that I think would need to be addressed with the changes, obviously. But there's also, like you say good attorney. There's some vagary in there that I'd like to see removed. Yeah. Right? It talks about, like, well, if, you know, if it kinda fits, then maybe you don't do it. But, like, very hard language that is you will not accept or consider petitions that are against this document, I think Mhmm. Mhmm. Is is the way to go. That's it. I think that's to me, that would be you know, this talks about getting a board together that can't make final decisions, but helps knock things out. But it feels like that stuff's already started to happen. So

I don't know if that's what you need or if No. I I think we can make the document do what the document needs to do. Yeah. I think the hard part about this is to say, where's the line? What line do you wanna hold? And I just remembered the document would describe.

Okay.

Here, if I may. I I just remembered that. One other idea that was discussed was agreeing on 4400 South as the border, or maybe that wasn't a 100% agreed upon, but figuring out some way to create a buffer zone and share tax revenue. Right. Oh. Good service district or something? Some sort of way. And I don't know the details. I don't know the mechanism. I don't know the but if we agreed to just discuss an equal you know because if we're gonna serve it, it's gonna cost us money. If they're gonna serve it, it's gonna cost them, and we figure out what the profit is based on property tax, sales tax, may it be, whatever, and figure out some sort of cost sharing structure as a possibility.

The Walmart in I'm not gonna say Brigham City. In Box Elder County, the parking lot is in Okay. Mhmm. Brigham City, and the store is in Perry. And so by that delineation, Perry would get all of the point of sale sales tax, and Brigham City wouldn't get anything. But they have an interlocal agreement that splits the point of sale sales tax revenue between the two cities. It's not true. I mean yeah, I agree, Justin. I'm not sure that has legs because one city's gonna have to provide services. And it's amazing how tangled these things get because when we start talking about fire service as a renter from Hiram, they want to talk about a cost per resident. And I think it should be per mill, property tax mill or percentage divided by 10. Because if you have commercial or industrial property in your town, you need to provide fire service to those people, to those to those entities who they don't wanna be in your town. And so we all should pay for fire service. And, obviously, it's to Nibley's advantage to make industrial property in Hiram pay for fire service and not just base it on per resident because we don't we don't have commercial and industrial, but we have a lot of residents. Yes.

On a similar note, I mean, we also have an agreement with Hiram about our library, current library contract.

Yes. We do.

But with there's been a little bit of discussion and contention about that in the past two years. So, I mean, it it might just lead to the fact that if we have more of these interlocal agreements, they might not always go as smoothly as we hope. Right?

Right. And that was the library. I I am a member of the county library board whose job it is is to shut down the county library. Yeah. But at the same time, it's to figure out what else we might do for library service for Providence and River Heights and Millville and maybe Nibley. Mhmm. Right? And that's where I was Yeah. For this meeting. Yeah. It it all gets kinda tangled up.

Justin, your suggestion of splitting 4400 southeast and west seems and having each of us having some north and south frontage seems like a a wise avenue to pursue, at least initially, and see where it lands with them.

K. I

do have a question about a a different pieces pieces of land. Over on Hollow Road, there is space county space between what's in Hiram and what's in Nibley. Is that gonna be discussed in this boundary agreement as well, Or is

it just the road? It'd be great to include that, but that that there's no road there pushing the schedule. Yeah. Okay. I'd love to have it discussed. Good point. I have been to meetings with lots of people in a room talking about the Hansen, not not on our agenda tonight, but Yeah. The Hansen petition for annexation. Yes. And Hiram did not that petition will go away. You'll be asked to deny that annexation because the county wanted to bring in more of the road. And so now there's another landowner that will be involved in that petition. That's on a future agenda. I don't wanna get ahead of ourselves, but folks that don't want things to happen on a Hollow Road make clear statements to me, clear eyed statements that say, well, Hiram says they don't want it. So if Nimbly doesn't annex it, then it'll never be developed. And I said, what city council motion and vote says Hiram doesn't want it, and what committed future city councils to saying Hiram doesn't want it? Yeah.

Alright.

Mhmm. In fact well, it would be an interesting case on Hollow Road if whoever gets the petition for annexation, the other town protested that petition.

We will yeah. I mean, the Hansen property is touching Nibley. Right? So

Kind of touching the road. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. We won't get too far there. But but Hiram's only a 100 feet away from that property. Of course, it's about 80 feet up uphill. But Yeah. The Kilgore mine is right there, and that's in Hiram. Yeah. Who am I ignoring? I'm sorry. Nick? Nathan. Nathan? Sorry. Nathan.

Yeah. As far as where's the line, I I like the Hiram proposal with some adjustments on the East side, and my suggestion would be to go to 4600 South Mhmm. Until you get to, I don't know, somewhere in there. Rough roughly 12. Yeah. I think that that makes sense, especially where borders kind of already are, things that are already established, and the road, which helps the county, I guess.

Yeah. I think for that to work in fact, for the hiring proposal to work or for the Justin Mahn alternative to work, the county one of two things have to happen. The county has to be okay with building and maintaining and owning a road where there is the same city, Hiram to the West and Nibley to the East on both sides of the road. Mhmm. So that's one thing that could make it work. The other thing that could make it work is maybe the county's willing to build the road and then dedicate it to the cities with access management plan and, you know, interlocal agreement between the county and Hiram At Nibley that says, look. We're we're giving the road to the cities to own and maintain, but there's some strings attached. And I I'm I'm I'm trying to figure out why the county wants to own the road in the first place. And I think it's to maintain control. They don't wanna build this thing and then have it get polluted up with lots of ins and outs and stuff like that. They wanna achieve the stated goal for the road. And I think the I I love calling it the Mon alternative. I think How about East West? The East West alternative is, it pushes the issue of, well, you know, how strong is the county gonna be about a road that's inside a county road that's inside the city?

Is the county invited to your next meeting? Or No. They said come back to us. Okay. Alright.

They said come back when you've agreed. Right.

K. K.

And even that's a strategic point because I mean, Hiram wants trucks off their main street. I think we can

slow play our hand. Yeah. We're not in a rush.

But it helps Justin and I to go back to Hiram, go back to the county and say, oh, this is what our council was leaning towards. K. So I I think I have a feel for that, the East West Mhmm. Delineation.

Yeah. There's some nuance there. Yeah. The As you get right next to 165, that's that's that's resolvable.

And there's some nuance as to where that, you know, that north south line of delineations. There might be a little bit of jogging around to make certain property owners happy. Yep.

But I think that's

But it's right ahead. The the the diagonal sort of line has got a lot of jogging around already. Yeah.

We'll call it the step up line. Yeah. Stairmaster.

Okay. I think coupled with this discussion is the next agenda item. I'm not moving on to that yet, but it's, you know, land use is about what Nibley City would like to see land use wise. Mhmm. And if we get into city shopping, if we just let it play out with whoever makes a petition, I don't think that's our best way to go about it, but we probably ought to, you know, look at future land use map and annexation map. That doesn't have to be in the general plan that we adopt. We can change those parts of the plan when it's appropriate. Mhmm.

Yeah. That's one of those areas in our former proposal that the language could be strengthened. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, hey. We kinda want any of these kind of, and it should be similar.

Let's be specific. Yeah. It's gonna sound like I'm griping, but the very first meeting with Stephen Miller was Hiram being adamant that we adopt these agreed upon land uses as a buffer without first agreeing where the where the delineation is. And it's like, I can you know, we can work on buffering from that delineation. But if I don't know where the but you have to. You gotta get these land uses established. Okay. How far do they go now? How far do we take these controlled land uses or agreed upon land uses? You gotta have the line first Mhmm. The buffer second. Mhmm.

Okay. I think our it currently says, you know, agree to establish compatible zoning and land use regulations. But Yeah.

Oh, man. A 660

foot buffer from Yeah. Yeah. Residential. It just lists all possibilities, essentially, of residential, agricultural, commercial. Yeah. We

Well, yeah. Actually had Hiram come to a public hearing on transfer of development rights and stand up in a public hearing and tell us that's not gonna work because that's in the buffer zone that we're talking about. It was establishing a receiving zone on North Of 4400 South, which is a residential receiving zone, and we worked it out.

Just so interesting because their 2003 plan talks about transfer of development rights. Does it? Yeah. They were so forward thinking back then. I don't know if they were actually made in ordinance, but I don't think so. I think we're the only ones in Cache County. It's interesting.

Oh, the county's talking about doing it too, but what do you what does the county have to transfer to and from? Right? They cannot. Unless the county gets into residential development. Okay. Well, unless you tell me differently, I'm gonna we'll go back to hire them and say, this is what our council prefers. Let's work in that direction and see what the county comes back with and what Hirem comes back with. I think it kinda proves the point, if nothing else, to say, yeah. I think frontage on the road's important. Yes. K. Cool. Any last thoughts on that?

So I have a question. Yeah. Please. What do you think the county's gonna say if if we agree to these two if we if both cities agree, what do you think the county's gonna say? Yeah. I think you mean to the East West? East West. What do you think they'll say? Because the road County will say we're not building the road. That's number one.

Because we don't want to bury a county road in in a city. That's why they wanna get rid of 238. Right? So the county will say, well, we're not building the road. Or the county will say, maybe we can build the road and turn it over to cities with the appropriate restrictive use of that road that would last a long time. I mean and and Tom Dickinson makes his point, you know. He said, well, why can't the county own a road that's buried in a city? UDOT owns roads that are buried within cities, but they also have access control. Yeah. Right? And they also have strings attached to what you can do with that road. Now it's probably simpler for the county to say, we wanna own the road, and therefore, we control it, and we tell you what kinda access you can have. Mhmm. And that's in jeopardy when it's the same town on both both sides of the road. Feel like we need to get our strategic strategal pieces out and move them around. Anything else? K. Let's when is our next meeting? I think it's couple weeks from now. May 7, I think.

Thank you. Oh, council meeting? Or No. Our our next,

Hiram meeting. I think it's quarter of the month. Right. And we'd really like to get to things in those coordination meetings with Hiram on things like rec centers and stuff. But

so far, that has Better plan for an all day meeting. Yeah. A retreat.

It'd be nice if we could get to those things. We just end up talking about other stuff. Mhmm. Alright. So we take a little break before we go on to the general plan. Any objection to that? Alright. Let's take five minutes. Okay. Thanks. Oh, before we take a break, I haven't asked Hiram about this, but there's there's there's nothing that would keep council member or two from coming to these meetings. So think about that. One of you could be a good cop, and Justin will be the bad cop.

I Always is a good cop. You're always the good cop. My job is K.

I'll be a good cop there. Take a nice. We don't think

When you think it's gonna happen, it'll figure it out.

I mean Everybody has a plan till they get punched in the face. Yeah. But I think they'll come back.

If I Makes sense.

And and I really get mute? Yeah. Is that muted? Yep. Good job, Alan. I'm here. Go ahead. He seems he's in the patient. I'm in somehow. Where is it?

It? It goes to the It it it's there. Yeah. I don't know where. I I've always I've I find it, but I can't I

think I'm pretty savvy, and then I'm not. Well, I'm just like, I this is my my my job as technology. Where is this thing? Where? Municipality. It's in Italy. Oh. I can get the audio recording?

Where? Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not. Where is? Oh, yeah. I swear to you. I was so I I don't know. I have no idea. I I need to find out. I don't know.

How

can we both felt the same way? Like, what was the agreement? So I haven't what were you saying? I don't know. I'll just go ask those guys. I'll just put it to Justin about it later. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't even get now. But I I mean, with with Justin loaded, so it's So whatever but whatever. Yeah. You know? Try to start We're actually living quite well tonight. I mean, it might be a new record. Or, well, Oh.

This family reunions around. Maybe those become sense.

No. Not really.

I ordered the box, and I thought it was on the right game. At this point, I look sorry. Last sixty minutes. Three twelve one sixty. Where? Yeah. What year? Just in Tivo. Did you Yeah.

Does the name something different? What do you mean the name? It's no. It's meaning minutes. It's usually one of the I'm fine. It's one of the first two things usually.

I mean, it was yesterday when I was

Yep. Yeah. So, sir.

General plan discussion, please. Item 12. So we've been talking about this a while. We're narrowed it down to a couple sections. We don't have any any sort of new information, additional background to give you, so I'm just gonna put it right to the council.

Why did we continue it and not do a third reading?

Question.

Our procedures only talk about first and second readings. Oh, okay. And so maybe it was at my request, say, we'll continue Okay. It instead of do a third reading or fourth reading and fifth reading. Because I just get What? A three. Not really. I'm not depressed about about that. I'm happy to work it at at the right pace.

I'll go ahead and make a motion to approve ordinance twenty six zero one

or second for final reading. K. We can discuss. Second. And as a motion from Aaron, second from

Nick. Well, thanks. And I just And so

if I interpret that right, we're picking up where we left off with amendments. Mhmm. K.

Garrett? Well, the only only change I've really thought about since we've been talking about 2,400 is do we make some amendments to the map or residential mixed use and detached? Do we modify that e section a little bit to to kinda I mean, or do we just come back with amendment once we actually have an agreement? I mean, what what's the best way to do that? You're you're talking about the future land use map. Right? Yes. Page 21. If you're looking at the

isn't that 21?

Mhmm. Yeah.

There it is. Nope. Nope. It's alright.

Sorry. I went too far.

Past mouse right there. There we go.

Yeah. So

can you ask your question of us again, please, Garrett, now that we're looking at the map? So now that we're looking at the map, so I'm wondering if we need to make some couple of tweaks on this and swap some of that residential mixed use on the right, kind of in that corner, that quadrant that I don't know what you call it, Southeast quadrant there where we've got some commercial along 165. Yep. That quadrant. Do we change some of that and put some of, like, about where you're at, that line north being yellow for detached, and swap that down below along 4400 for residential mixed use or commercial? And does that strengthen our argument with Hiram? Does that help with that, or are we just wasting time and just I know. I mean, you know, I'm just wondering what what what puts us in the best position and you know? Or do we just make an amendment once we have one? I don't know. That's the only thought I've had is making that change along there and swapping those and either putting red down along 4400 with some RM and changing that section in that northern north part of that quadrant to detached. So that's the only thought I've had.

Yeah. My feeling in terms of the agreement between Hiram and Nibley, I don't know where that's gonna end up. Yeah. And I don't know it well enough to say we necessarily make changes to this map based on what that agreement might become. Unless it's specifically make a point, like, go all the way to Hiram. Yeah.

I mean, then that corridor is gonna be a commercial corridor. I mean, then then to make sense to just put it in our future as commercial and change that up slightly. That's the only area I'm thinking we might wanna make some changes to, but I don't know.

Yeah. It's a it's a great question. I know that and I have to go back and look at the notes. But when we did the Oh, you're fine. Transfer of development rights and Hiram's, you know, made the comment, like, you can't do receiving area along there with Mhmm. Miller and the planner, Matt Matt? Holmes. Holmes. Yep. I mean, we actually came to agree with Nibali and Hiram to this kind of future annexation map. So, again, I I think the the agreement between the cities should probably be the driving document Mhmm. For this one. If we do the East West sort of division, well, gee, we ought to be anticipating and exiting more property South of 4400 South on the East Side. That's what I'm thinking. But I don't know where we're gonna end up on that. I don't know. It just it's a case by case thing. These are intentions. And, certainly, this map is a living document. Right. And they they make changes to match I think the most important thing about this map, and Levi point helped me understand this, pointed it out, that when a applicant comes to Nibley and says, I want to petition to be annexed into Nibley, and I want this kind of zoning, then Levi's recommendation is based on what this map says. Mhmm. He doesn't say, well, maybe that'll be okay. Maybe it won't. He says, no. No. The council indicated that they anticipate this would be the land use in this part of newly annexed territory. Now that doesn't mean the council has to stick to the map, but Levi has to stick to the map with with his recommendation to the planning commission and his recommendation to the council.

Yeah.

Mayor, can I say something there? Please. So I mean, I think we all think about this map probably more than any map I've looked at in, you know, six months probably. We we analyze this map all the time. And as I look at it, I still come back to maybe this is just my opinion, is that I wonder if we're better off just take changing instead of mixed residential with some of that brown, is just changing it more to yellow, detached residential. And I say that as as maybe it's making making detached kind of the the default for future land use. And I say that in a lot of ways because of a I believe if we did that, then what would happen, we'd we'd be a little bit more in the driver's seat to say, well, this is what we're looking like. Okay. But there's some more negotiation power that might be at play. I think we have more leverage if we say that. We're looking at more smaller homes. We're looking at more smaller lots. We want some more options there. If it's mixed, I feel like we might lose much more control. They can come and says, well, I want this, and your mouth says you can do that. And so we'll we'll it just feels like we will lose a little more leverage if if it's mixed everywhere, from where it's at now. And that's my opinion. But I'm also realizing that might not be realistic. But I think our leverage, I think we're we're better off just saying this, default that to detached, knowing that this parcel might be better off with with mixed and might be attached. But it's just a good starting spot, I think. I think I think that helps us with what leverage, more control. But, also, I like the another another point is I just this always scares me because I realize we change council members all the time. And and and I think my opinion is is one thing, but I don't wanna put it such in stone that it can never be changed either. And and so it gets me a little nervous to try to say, well, this is the map and how it's gonna be. And so I like it more neutral, and then it it puts more control for the current council to make those decisions.

So where where would you wanna make changes?

Well, as far as 4400 South, I mean, I don't I I have no idea what to do there until we know where the boundaries are, to be quite frank. But anywhere inner city like, I would just change those to yellow in front of north of 3200 South and south of those, and and just change into yellow and say, well, we're looking at more detached housing, but I also think it's important to to note somewhere we'll listen. It's it's not it doesn't have to be everything detached as much as let's start here, and then we'll see what's the best for that parcel of land and and and what we think can fill. It's just an idea of of leverage, I think.

Greg alluded to the real estate. You know, they did a it was a statewide survey, and then they got federal money from an AR four. And, basically, that was the preference is smaller, deep everybody seems to want a single detached single family home. But how do you get that in the affordable or attainable range? That's that's the question for everybody that nobody has an answer to because you've got market forces and everything else that did paid a lot of that. So, I mean, I I do see some reasoning behind that.

Mayor mayor comment? Yep. Randy, so you mentioned, like, within the city, those places that are already yellow, and you mentioned north and south of thirty two hundred south. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just saying some of the the the dark the the dark or the lighter brown areas just let's make more of that yellow, and then that's gonna be shall we say, develop sooner. And and then just let's see what happens. Let's let that play out.

Seems like a lot of what's what's that kind of brown orange color I think you're referring to is already like, a lot of those are already either built on or Yep. Or go or we've already approved subdivisions, like, a lot yeah. This one here is being constructed right now. Yes. Thank you. Found a few of them. There there's a lot of them that are already being constructed or have been approved to be constructed. Those can't be changed. Absolutely right. And I I agreed that. And and further over Ridgeline Park, that whole I mean, that's already built. Right? So Yeah. And then this is Well, city is already either built on or allowed to be built in that zoning density. So, really, you can only change what hasn't been approved. A 100%. Right? Which is Yep. Not really within our city. Those are the things on the edges, like, further south.

Right. And I look at over at 3200 South where it's dark brown, that hasn't to me, I think that's a great partial land that should be really detached housing. But but it's but that's Hot Hollow and

Travis's what's that one called? Nibley Meadow. Nibley Meadow. Talking here.

Here. Crossed and up just slightly up 3200 right there. There. I think it's a great parcel of land that could be very well detached, and and it's a incredible setting. So I would I would say that would be a great place. Now, Erin, I I completely agree I completely agree with what you're saying. If it's already there and we're zoned, that's that's not a question. But for a future land use future that hasn't been developed and is not zoned any of these development proposals that we're looking at, then I would go that to detached. Yeah. If it's already there, it's there. I have no no problem with that.

The I'm I'm trying to remember the last time we put this in the Teams. Do you have a date, or did you download a I'm trying to find it. This is Is this in The general the dates? I know.

Right. Right in Teams. Issue.

Did we put that in Teams this time? Yeah. The whole okay. Yeah. It's in there. Thanks. I'll quit asking. Hey. It's Levi.

Yeah.

Welcome, Levi. Hi, Levi. Hey, guys.

So Mary, can I Please? Yes. I like where you're headed, Randy. One thing that I want this map to do is, you know, the page above it tries to define what these zones mean, and it gives what current zoning resident or zoning ordinances or zones exist zones exist that give us an idea of what we currently have. Doesn't mean that we can't make new things. And so one that popped into my head, especially here with, you know, having our conversation about R2A and whether it should have open space subdivisions, hearing, what Greg said today, and knowing that smaller lot so if you look at detached residential and the definition we give, it mentions that there's a wide range of lot sizes, single family housing, generally three quarters of an acre or smaller.

It's massive.

Right? Those are big compared to what we can allow in certain areas. Right? And we've now had this conversation of, like, oh, 5,000 square feet, maybe not. Right? Right. Right. One proposal I have is is and I hate to prolong the adoption of this plan is we have a detached residential large lot. Why not a detached residential small lot? Right? Because I think that's what you're getting at is we don't necessarily want high rises, apartments, townhomes all over the city because if that's what they can build, that's what they're gonna propose to build. I agree. But if we specifically say this is an area where we're cool having some smaller lot sizes that that we're not used to yet or we don't even have on the books yet, but we need to develop. I I I think that that might be an opportunity for us is to is to maybe break down that detached residential even more. Because I don't I don't know the next time anyone's gonna come to us and be like, hey. I'd really like a real estate a rural estate zoning. Right? We know where that's going, and I don't see us ever approving one of those unless it's, like, just a one off. Right? But as far as large developments or or bigger subdivisions that are a couple of homes, I think that we have an opportunity maybe to to break down our detached residential into different sizes of lots. Yep. And that can be put on the map of where we think it's good.

Nathan, I think it's an outstanding idea.

Nick? Yeah. I mean, Nathan, to end up on that, my whole thought about what we just went through with r two a open space was simply just make that in its own zone. Yeah. Why conflate r two a with r two a open space? Just make it its own zone. Yeah. Let's have and then make it and then whatever that zone is described, give a normal version and then even an open space version if you want it, which gives you even more density. Right? And that that was my whole not to not to go backwards, but Mhmm. Just a logical, you know, flow of conversation, basically. Right? It's like, why not just make it its own zone? And I and and, frankly, the way I mean, I I we've read my my thoughts on the mixed residential description in the last meeting, and the way I kind of interpret it as though and I will move I will continue to interpret it that way regardless of what the words say on the general plan, is simply any residential zone could be in here if it makes sense, both in context, time, and what the city needs. I will I will always vote that way regardless of what the words say. Right? So I I don't and and, Levi, now that you're here, it may be frustrating for him where if we leave the orange orange and all we get are higher density proposals I don't know. And maybe that's just a byproduct of how people interpret the map, I guess. Right? But it says it right there. I mean, it says in the words, all possible zones. You know what I mean? If so to me, even if we leave the orange orange, I think it just means we could entertain anything, and I think it's our responsibility up here to just decide, does that make sense where it's at both geographically, where we're at in time, and what we need as a city. I mean, that's kinda how I think about it.

Yeah. I I I think one thing to consider then is if if we propose the idea of a smaller lot detached type of definition, we obviously put those not next to already established lots. Right? I think that's we've learned that lesson now. But we'd be open about it being really close to those now. Right? And kind of like a build out of the city. Like, yeah, we've this is what we grew up with. This is our foundation, but let's let's start putting a little more. Right? Instead of just accessory dwelling units everywhere, let's maybe think about utilizing the land a little better and being a little smarter. And, you know, I think it was a public comment that happened one of the times we discussed this that and I've brought it up. Right? We don't zone for agriculture. We've got a lot of open space, and I actually like how it's laid out in here for the most part, especially with the USU over on the left. But the idea of of of saying where we want open space and what we want around it, I think, is powerful. Right? And and right now, our giant open space owned by the city is surrounded by detached. I'd rather see that, you know, maybe look more mixed or this smaller lot concept because there's nothing else built there right now. Yeah. Right. Right? And so I think it it just becomes easier because we know that's probably the way the city's gonna develop anyway, but I don't know. I like the idea of a small detached Do we have another color here, or do we

just redefine the definition?

As I've thought about it, if I if you don't mind me answering that, I I mean, I hear what you guys are saying, but the problem is yellow by extrapolation of where we are now is r two a. Mhmm. Yeah. And that doesn't make a good plan. Right? No. Mhmm. Because we're saying we we we want detached housing, but maybe we're willing to accept a smaller lot size. And I think I told you our oldest kid bought a expensive house in Salt Lake with a with a 10,000 square foot lot, and they're and they're just so excited. And so to me, because yellow in my mind from history means r two a, I think we need a a different zone. And these aren't zones. These are areas. These are Areas. Land uses. We need a different land use that is higher density than R 2 A but detached.

Mhmm. Yeah. I agree. And and I would propose for two zones for that, actually, based on conversations I've had with different builders and developers about what do you see, what would work, how do we get to this attainable affordable housing. And I think most of them, I think, would agree that the the average lot size anymore like, R 2 A was 12,000, but the average lot size is probably moving closer to 8,500 or smaller.

Yeah. Oh, and I lied. It's a 5,000 square foot lot. Yeah. I right. It's not a it's not a quarter of an acre. It's less than that. It's a tenth. I mean, it's

And and the other part that, you know, from this and the surveys from all the residents, You know? I mean, the biggest feedback I get back is they're just kinda tired of all the townhomes. And so when I look at this map, I you know, like you on RM, it can mean any zone, but how many townhouse projects are we gonna have? And I think that the last meeting, Levi said that I remember Levi was three to one for permits being pulled. Right? Three townhouse permits per one single family or something around. It was something like that. And I think the residents from the feedback I get would rather see that reversed. Three single family to one townhouse.

Yeah. So I'm I'm okay to maybe have some new zone that's higher density than R 2 a Oh, absolutely. Different color. But I'm I'm gonna come to the defense of people that live in multifamily housing because I have met some of the most absolute wonderful people that live in in Ridgeline and live in some absolutely yeah. I mean, they Yeah. They are great people. They help us build pump tracks. I met a guy the other day. He's retired. He's here with his wife. He lives, in a townhome, and he wants to umpire Little League Baseball. Now that's my hero. Yeah. I mean, he's about 70 years old. And so he wants to get out and give back to his community by he he doesn't wanna get paid to to go out and umpire it at Heritage Park. So I I wanna caution us about making some general statement about people that live in multifamily housing because it's the way of the future. There's good people that live there. I'm not saying you said anything different. I I agree with you. There are good people

in that. I just a lot of, you know, the comments and and even from this is the people moved to Nibley for the rural feeling. And then are we gonna be a city of townhouses? Because that doesn't feel like a bedroom community if all we are is townhouses.

I think that's what a bedroom community is. A permanent community. It's exactly what a bedroom community would be. I think it nothing but townhouses feels like a sit a downtown city,

not a rural bedroom community that everybody at least most people I talk to would like to try to preserve to some extent. And are we doing that? We all know what's gonna change. And I will I will admit, I grew up in the Sandy, and Sandy felt a lot like Nibley. And I go back there now, and I can't even recognize the place. There's so many high rises and so much density that I mean, I'm kinda glad I don't live there anymore.

Are you guys wanting to make changes to zoning or definitions before we adopt this plan, or would you like to adopt it and then go back and make some changes to our zoning and maps and things?

Is it I mean, are we talking about, like, a chicken and egg thing? Because, like, the plan I don't know. It's like the does the plan direct give us direction, basically, on what we need to accommodate to enact upon the plan? Right? Or do we need action items in place to say, yeah. We like the plan now?

I don't know.

I think the plan Sorry. Can I chime in for a second? Man should be vague. Please.

I think

I think I I've heard a lot of great ideas, and sorry I came came just the last twenty minutes or so. But but I I think it's it's important to remember that this is a general plan, and we can get more specific about specific areas on land uses of once we dive deeper. But and we could and if you want to, you know, we can do that with this general plan before it's adopted. But I think as long as there's as long as you don't see a big a a conflict in what you're adopting in in this plan, like, for example, Nathan, with your idea of of having, you know, more delineated small lot detached, I think that's great. I just I don't know if we have to do that in this plan or if we can we can define that further. The city hasn't done this a lot, but one of the one of the recommendations of this plan is to do a few small area plans. And we could start getting into that arena as as our city gets bigger, and and we're starting to do that with the with the town center to define more of what that is. We could do that with other areas. The it's difficult. The the general plan by nature is just that. It's general, and it's it's a 30,000 foot level. And so the definitions and the delineations you see sometimes aren't as specific as as you might want to make a decision. You might need to dive a little deeper as you as you zoom into those places and and look at, okay, what what are the what are what's the infrastructure availability? What are the transportation facilities here? What are the the park amenities in this area? So that could be an approach is if if you if you feel like, well, I would like to be more specific in this area, but this is capturing generally our direction. You could be ready to to adopt

it. Just just to just to just wanted to offer that. Yeah. Yep. Thanks, Ed. All set. Alright. I have a So one those are waiting. Go ahead. Yeah. Is that alright? That's on on the deck. Yep.

Yes. I did I have an amendment that for you to consider, which would be in the detached residential to remove r two as a related zoning reference and move that to, detached residential large lot and change the well, I think I'm okay with the three quarters of an acre or smaller. So that's it. That's the only change I suggest. So the the proposed change is to

put our two Into the two residential residential large lot.

And my main focus of doing that is if I'm a developer tomorrow after we adopt this, that just gives clear direction to them, to Levi, to us. And then I ask I also think it inspires us to consider new zones, in that area rather than just rely on what we have currently.

Okay. There's a motion to amend from Nathan second from Garrett. That that motion is to add r two to detached residential large lot in the related zoning. I don't think you can type it in. I obviously can't either, but

That gets moved over into this section.

Mhmm. K. I like that, Nathan.

K. Discussion on the motions to amend? Those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Yep. I think that's good. I wanna come back to this yellow no. The the orange. I'm not sure if we're calling it brown, but I'm gonna it's mixed residential. Right? And we say, holy smokes. We're gonna we're gonna build this this this plan says we're gonna build nothing but townhomes. But the definition of mixed residential I know. Even includes r two a. We're not boxed into multifamily even if it's orange and mixed residential. I mean, the the plan is general enough to say, maybe R 2 A would be okay there, and maybe it's r two b Mhmm. Which I think we write the ordinance for that based on this plan.

Nick? Yeah. It just reinforces my thought earlier of I don't think we're beholden to anything. I think, to me, I think it's just a geographic and time con contextual decision, I guess, at the time. Right? It should just be, hey. Here's an orange color, and you we would theoretically consider everything, but it's our responsibility to make sure it fits for NEBLY. Yeah.

I think the Randy, maybe you're talking about Brown. That's the attached residential. Yeah. This old guy here. You know, to me, I'm okay to leave that as nope. If if you're gonna do townhomes, that's a good place to do it. Because it's out by commercial. It's out. It's a highway it's a highway zone. Right? Mhmm. So I think that gets pretty specific about this will be attached residential housing, and I'm okay with that. But it's the orange part, I think, we're focusing on now, not the brown part. Right. Am I correct on that?

Randy, I don't wanna talk to you. Again, I don't think it's I I bet that more mixed. I think it's a it's more secluded filling in a farm area than than I think it looks on a map Yeah. In my opinion. You know? But I do realize Malouf and some buildings of commercial are right there on the north side of it. I get that, and it is closed, 3200 South. You drive out there and you just think, I wonder about that. So I'd go more mixed there, personally, but Okay. It's my it's my opinion.

Okay. I'll make that motion. I'll make that motion to change that little triangle right there to mix residential.

Can you cursor on that for us? I think I know where it's North Of The Slough. It's the Zollinger piece. Right? It's Yeah. It's better.

Isn't that It's Malouf now. Is it the Malouf?

Yep. The South The Malouf property right next to the right west of the Yeah. Subdivision there, the Maple Yep. View sub yeah.

Doesn't involve me at all. I second that. So a motion to amend that piece of property where Justin's cursor is to mixed use. Is that right? Mixed residential. Mixed residential. Right. Okay. It just invites creativity. It it could be attached. What if the It could be attached. Yep. Okay. Discussion on the motion to amend? Seeing none, those in favor of the amendment, say aye, please. Aye. Any opposed? Nay. K. Four in favor, one opposed.

I I have a clarifying question, not for that motion, but for the last one. You you said that you wanted to add r two or you you made the motion to add r two to large lot. In the description, should it also should it say half acre or larger now? Because r two is That's a good point. Half acre. Just just wanted to clarify that. Yeah. I mean, you don't have to, but I just I'm just

I don't think I want I don't think I want half acre referenced anywhere in this plan, to be honest with you.

You'd rather have three quarter? Yeah. I mean

Okay.

Yeah. Again, that goes to I want this plan to help us decide what needs to change in our zoning ordinances, and and I don't see us making a change to half a for lots. So but But that's a good

catch, Avai. I think it says generally, so it can be broadly construed. Three quarters, but we're putting half acre. It's fine. Yeah. Generally.

Actually, looking at it, I'm starting to really love these definitions. I've looked at them a lot, so I probably just started, like, glazing over them. But I think that they're they're well done, and I think it gives us direction that we haven't had before. Yeah.

You have to kinda defocus your eyes when you Yeah. Look at them. Yeah. I was gonna talk to the last motion to amend, but we're done with that.

Ready. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like we wanna vote.

Ready to vote? Let's do it. Let's do it. Wow. Levi, glad you're here. We're gonna vote. There's no obligation to voting. Okay. So the amendments we've made leading to this point, I think we've we're clear to Al Anon. Thank you. Amendments for tonight. And let's call the roll on adopting a new general plan.

Council member Mann? In favor. Council member Larson? In favor. Council member Mansell? In favor. Council member Kentska?

In favor. Council member Spalding? In favor. Terrific. Good job, you guys. Levi, appreciate you, planning commission, and the consultant.

I think this was a good process for us. I I I think the consultant did a really good job on this, and they were very having been on the steering committee with Nathan on this, they were great to work with.

At least. That's good because we hired him to do something else. Just for some closure.

Appreciate all your time on this, guys. I know I I know you spent a lot of time reviewing it. Very thoughtful.

Wasn't it? Yeah. Thank you. So from here, Levi, I'm glad you're here for that part of the discussion. I think we have the possibility of writing a new zone Or more. Or more. Right?

And then Yeah. So so we have maybe just a little bit of a background on that. Those are great ideas. We we have a grant application in for a a bigger project. Still waiting to hear back from you, Don, on a technical planning assistance, but for a a pretty big revamp of our of our code, review and revamp. And I think that could definitely that would definitely fit into the scope of that if we get awarded that. And I think it would be good to do it in the context of the whole code and how it all fits together. We could do it as a a one off thing. Our staff can get going on that if you wanna do that. But I think we're gonna hear back soon. We wouldn't get under contract on that till July. So I'm not sure that I'm not sure the time frame you're looking for for that, but just wanted to let you know that it's that's something that's on the docket that we're we're hoping to take a a really hard look at our ordinance in light of everything we've you know, the city's just adopted with the general plan and and other other changes that have have come about. So

What do you think, counsel? I'll I'll July is good for me.

Yeah. We've got the budget to work on the next few months.

Okay. Now if we don't get that grant, we could either I mean, there's a few options. We could either do as much as we can in house, or we could do a smaller project, with the city funds or revisit the budget, you know, in the new fiscal year. There's some different options out there. Look at other grant resources, but the I believe what we proposed to Udot, it was 20,000 in city funds, which were already budgeted this year, by the way. And then they would match it with a $100. So it'd be a big big project, big update to to to our codes.

It's simple.

Yep. A big process, really. I mean, that that's that's that's the cost is is really diving in deep with, you know, with some expertise to bear.

So, hopefully, we're still crossing our fingers. Hopefully, we get that done. Let's see how those grants go. It may reminds me of my time on the planning commission. We spent two years going through code line by line by line by line and handed it to the city council, and they dropped it in the trash. They didn't even read it. And I said, I think I wanna be on the city council.

Man.

So I think I we're we're good with that, Levi. I mean, we're kinda nodding our heads, see where the grants come from and size, scope based on how much help we can get based on them. Okay? K. Sounds good. Thank you. Alright. Be safe. Thanks. You're welcome to stick around. Of course.

Yep. I'll stick around for a little bit. I'm gonna drop off. Let's go to item 13. This is

support for Justin the state of Utah representative of our National Rural Water Association. Justin, I don't have much to say, so I'll let you talk about it.

Yeah. This is just a resolution for would approve you guys to submit my name for consideration to be appointed to the national board. I don't know if you're familiar with the Utah Rural Water Association. I've been a member of that for a while. Been on the board for a while. Happened to be serving currently as the president of that association for this year and the next calendar year, which has been fun. It's really what it means for the city is loss of my time for a little bit of travel. We traveled to DC for a week, and we traveled to a conference in Saint George for a week, and then also one in Layton. So there is a little bit of time away from the office, but I'm always available when I'm at those conferences for to handle things that are going on. And there's no financial commitment from the city. They cover all the costs and things like that. And so this is really just an another step up actually to the national level. The person that's currently serving in that position has been on the board for a long time, has retired, and is resigning his position on that national board. So it it would be similar to what I'm doing now with maybe a a a couple of extra weeks of travel. One being to a national conference and the other one actually being DC. So it's really an additional one week from what I've been doing this year and will do next year. And so hopefully that makes sense. I'm starting to muddle it. But but really this is just the organization wants to know that you guys support me being on that board and understand the time commitment and the travel commitment. So that's why this resolution is in front of you guys. There's no guarantee that I'll even get the position if I submit my name. But

please. My only question, do you want it?

Yeah. Yeah. I think it'd be fun. It's a it's a good little break from our day to day, what we do every day. So a little bit of travel, a little bit of shoulder rubbing with national legislators as opposed to just state legislators. So hopefully, that could bring some fruit to Nibley. I know my current position at Rural Water is was definitely the reason that I was put on the drinking water board. And as part of the Utah drinking water board, what that's meant for Nibley is we got a pretty easy loan at a really good interest rate without many questions asked. So there there may be some fruit brought to Nibley, but otherwise, recognition and the opportunity for me to associate and have relationships with key individuals throughout the state government as well as potentially the federal government.

Question for you. I know you we've talked a lot about, you know, you you feel like you have a great staff and you feel like staff could handle emergency situations while you're gone. Have you talked to them about this concept and they're okay with you not being around one week longer, I guess, or what if No. Okay. No. I have to Just curious.

Talent.

I mean, I have confidence in Yeah. I I you always say that. I know. Yeah. I know. I don't know if they would be happy with me. Okay. Maybe they will. There you go.

So I think, Justin, you function really well in these roles, the state drinking water. I mean, you grow from the experience. You bring that experience back to Nibley. We see direct benefit of that, like you said, with low interest loans on projects and stuff. So I I think the networking, even though I hate it when you're gone, is a good thing for Nibley. I I've always supported. I think it's reasonable. I won't be one minute.

Do we have a motion? Yeah. I'll make a motion to approve resolution twenty six zero eight for

final reading. Okay. We have a motion from Aaron. Second. A second from Nick. This would be approval of 2608, waiving the second reading. Discussion? Thoughts?

I I think it's a great opportunity for you, Justin. Yeah. Yeah.

Anyone opposed to voting? K. Will you call the roll force, please, Talon?

Council member Mann? Favor. Council member Larson? Yes. Council member Mansell? In favor. In favor. Council member Spalding? In favor.

Five in favor. None opposed. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. Let's finish up with Morgan Farm. Roxy, thanks for coming out to help us with this. Justin, why don't you introduce us to it? Yeah.

So a lot of counsel has turned over since we started this Morgan Farm episode. So I'll give a quick recap of where we've gone over the last couple years. There was a gentleman that ran the farm for a long time for Nibley. Due to some health concerns and some other issues, he was eventually unable to continue to do that. And so we moved towards a different structure with the farm, and we created a nonprofit organization known as the Nibley Morgan Farm LLC. So this is a nonprofit entity that exists out there, legally and is a separate entity from Nibley City. It has its own board of directors. We have members of the council that sit on that board of directors. And though that board of directors is in charge of running the affairs of the farm, and we have that that board of directors has chosen a manager being Roxy and Mike, her husband, as the managers of the farm. So they run the day to day operations and have really upped the ante on what the farm has to offer. It's more publicly accessible. They've gone after a lot of grants and worked with USU extension office to secure funding and do some things with the community garden is there's a bit of the the high tunnel that's that you're familiar with. And so, anyway, we they've created this entity, and one of the steps we need to do is formally lease the property to the entity. And that will solve some of the problem that, we've had discussions about with, with with liability with the city and having a farm operation and public access to that farm and some things like that. So this is kind of a a move to limit the city's liability and continue to progress and move forward the operation and the mission of the Morgan Farm. So this first lease agreement is for the actual Morgan Farm property. There and the second lease agreement is for the property that is located on Hollow Road about 4500 ish, if I remember right. It's a t shaped property that borders the USU Coyote Farm on the East. And so cities owned that property for quite a while. That property has been leased to an excuse me, an individual in the area that's used it for pasturing his horses. And, we would like to, you know, transition that and lease it to the farm so that they can have the opportunity to have more large animals and be able to pasture them and continue the four h programs that they have going with the equine program. So there's not a lot of, I mean, I mean, you could do a lot of things potentially trans. It's really Rocky. I guess what I'm trying to say. It's not it's not great for farming so much as it is pasturing of animals. So the canal does run through it, and I'm in the process of trying to work with the canal company and the state of Utah to maybe change a little bit of our water right that would allow us to keep water in the canal year round so that we could have horses for those animals. I'm slowly working on that. Horses for that water. Horses for that water. Right. That's what I meant. There's gonna be water. Somebody should be drinking it. Sorry. Water for the horses. So the the leases are pretty similar. The the farm property leases for ten years. All the the Hollow Road property is only for three. And so we have I've been working with Roxy for a while. We pick it up and then get busy and then pick it up again and then get busy, and and we're finally to the point where we think we're close. I know Roxy took the original proposal to her board of directors. They made some suggested changes and approved it, and then sent it back to us. Mara and I have had some discussion, have maybe a couple comments or things to add or change to the lease. And so I and I'm sorry. Roxy hasn't even seen those yet. So hopefully, there's not a giant surprise or any giant issues with her tonight, but she's here to answer any questions as well as you're welcome to say anything else so far by hitting the mark?

Okay. Great. Let's be clear. There's three things in Teams. One is as it came from the Morgan Farm board, and that, I think, is 14.4. Is that right? 14.2.

What?

So one and two are, like, the first drafts, and three and four are the redlined drafts. 14

why my number is not in order? Oh, yeah. 14 0.1. 14 point one's up a little bit for some reason. I don't know why.

So I think it's So I the two of them. First one and then the proposed changes and the first one for the other property.

Those changes. Right. Right. So the one and two farm from the nonprofit for both one property and then the other, and then a redlined version for each of those. And that's probably what you haven't seen. So not keep nodding your head, Roxy. It'll be fine. Mhmm.

So I'll pull open

But, anyway, we ought to decide which one you're going to propose if you are going to propose something for adoption. So we need to eventually we'd like to get eventually to two lease agreements, and you pick the starting point. What can't we do both? There's four documents. Number one is as it came from the nonprofit Right. For Morgan Farm. Number two is as it came from the nonprofit for Hollow Road. Right. Three is a staff slash mayor proposed change to what came. So just when we make a motion, tell me where you want to start is what I'm asking. Start on one and two or start on three and four. I see. Yeah. Okay. That looks like a lot of red, but I don't think it's that much different.

I don't know what I'm questioning. Yep. On the Hollow Road property, was is this an allowed use? Because I know it was given to the city to be a park or something right, if I remember right. I we're not gonna get in trouble. Right?

I have. It's been a long time since this we've talked about yeah. I mean, this goes back, like, twenty eight years. There are strings attached to the use of that property. Utah State sold it to Nibley City. It had to be for recreational uses, I remember.

Okay.

So I think it's we've we've been leasing it to the next door neighbor to run his horse's auto. Mhmm. This is probably a step in the right direction for directories we'll use with four h projects. Okay. Thank you.

Of the, partial viewer map because I wanna see if on the Hollow Road piece, I don't know how many acres is is our parcel and how many acres is Morgan Farm wanting to use and which acres. I know that I was over there the other day, and there was a bunch of plantings flags. Is that the wildlife

group in Nibley that's planted things? My bride Right. Working with a And and Morgan Farm, you guys know about this, right, of what's going on on the Hollow Road property with a pollinator habitat? So I I mean, I just went back on the property. Animals to trample anything that's being planted currently. So that's a that's a scout project. It's a eagle scout project. Okay. Nice. That's right.

Yeah. So he's got it there. I think that's right in this It is. It's right behind the canal there. Yeah. In this area. So I don't know if if if that would just go by the wayside if animals were on it or if we could

mark that area off with the fence, keep animals off. Because I would hate to see all that work go to waste that some Would you believe I asked my bride that question? Like, do you know we're gonna put animals to on that property to trample your pollinator habitat? She said, what? I said, Morgan Farm. We're gonna lease it to we're thinking about leasing it to Morgan Farm. And Becky said, well, Roxy knows all about this pollinator habitat project. The scout project? K. Well, I'll have to get divorced if you trample that pollinator habitat. Okay. He said he could move move them? Put fence up around him. Fence around him. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

I'm glad you're worried about that. Why? I was I love plants. I don't wanna see them trampled by large animals.

So there's that piece of property. Theory. And by the way, the long term, you you can look in our parks and rec plan. The five years from now, it would be great if that was gonna be a nature park. Yeah. It'd be amazing. And when and if we develop that as a nature park, there's four acres to the east that is owned by Utah State, but the original deal was the city could also have access to that four acres, and that gets you to the river. Mhmm. Gets us to the river. And I was on the Nibali Diversion Bridge behind your house talking to Trout Unlimited and Department of DEQ folks, talking about long term plans to take okay. My plan. I hope it's someone else's dream to take our Yates Spring water and run it through this parcel and make a pond and then put that in the river. Cool. So we would keep from dewatering the Blacksmith fork with that plan. I'm not sure we have enough water, but it would start.

Nick. Roxy, question for you. What's the give me the logic of the three year with the out here versus I get to ten where Morgan Farm is. I get that. What

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is that because we have plans in three years? Well, potentially, but jets although these other parcels we have, we have a handful of them. We do the same about the same length and time. Yeah. Just lease them to people who wanna put animals on them. And there the rest of those are all three year term. So that that's honestly the reason. Just boilerplate then? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm assuming

three years comes and goes. That's quick. You're probably like, can I get another three? Or Yeah. Gotcha.

Which, one is this redline version?

This one I have pulled up is the Point three. Our staff proposed. Point three.

Point three. Mhmm. Four to follow-up.

Yeah. Three. Point 4.3. So this is the Hollow Road one.

Thank you.

Can I ask a question about this one specifically?

Please.

Point five hang on, says members of the public shall not be permitted One sec. To use the facilities operated, but that that the farm could have the right to regulate the facilities. But then on 14.4, it says that the public does have access. I think you I think five says they are Yeah.

Shall be permitted to use facilities to operate. Just misread it? Yeah. I think. Says they shall be permitted to use facilities operated by but but the lessee shall have the right to regulate the facilities for the purpose of preserving the grounds and facilitating and maintaining orderly proper use

thereof. Okay. I think I maybe just misread it because I was wondering why the public wouldn't be allowed here. I think Yeah. I read that word not, comma, shall be, and I misconstrued that. Thank you for clarifying.

One thing I did wanna talk about, and Roxy can fill me in more clearly, is the insurance requirement. The insure our insurance is the Utilical Government's Trust. I went to them and asked them what they recommended. They recommended a $2,000,000 policy. Roxy's done a fair amount of, I believe, checking into that, and that is that is no small amount of money to insure for 2,000,000. What did you what's the best you've come up with? $8,500. So that's that's big. So they have proposed, and I I don't think I changed it. What they have proposed reducing that to a 1,000,000, and that saves how much? Oh, really? So may I don't

know. Nonlinear. Yeah. Mhmm. Okay.

So

Mhmm. One of the other things we bounced around a bit on was the length of time to notify to get out of the lease. I don't remember where we started, but it went to 90 and but now asking for twelve months. Let me go to the other one. So these licenses aren't the time frames are a little different between the two, so let me go back to the other one. I think it's twelve months on Morgan Farm. Yeah.

Three months on Hollow Road.

A hundred and eighty days is what it looked like. Oh. A hundred and eighty days on Hollow Road, twelve months Right. On the Morgan Farm piece. Right. So that is that's substantial. I think a lot of the reason for that was ongoing programs and grants with outside entities such as the extension,

things like that. Yeah. I I think that I I thought about it too. I think that makes sense on the farm because you guys plan for a year. Mhmm. I think the Hollow Road property is more about grazing, and so plan for half a year. Do do we have a huge YouTube following, Roxy, and they're all wondering who we're talking to. You can even pick it up and sit back down if you want. Yeah. Take it and sit. That's fine.

So if we had four h kids down there on that property, there are gonna be kids who don't have another option as to where to put an animal. That's the point of it. And so some of those are like, a steer would come in the fall and would be there almost a year. And so if we had to move them, that becomes a really big problem for some of those animals. And so and it's hard to, like, relocate an animal. They worry about weight gain and all sorts of things for the fair. And so, like, for a pig, if you don't have if you if your pig doesn't make weight, you can't even do some of the different fair. You can't do market. And so the the thinking there is let's any research that might be happening on the farm and any animals that might be, you know, getting ready for the fair, let's give at least that much time to say, you can finish this year, but, you know, next year won't be a thing. K. And we have growing and things like that that are also happening. We've got some applied research going on. So it would just disrupt a lot of different things if we were just to start pulling programming without, like, a sufficient amount of time to figure out new places and things like that.

So are you okay with a hundred and eighty days on Hollow Road? K. So I think that the hard part about these agreements is they're like a prenuptial agreement, and you have to start thinking about you you don't you you can't just think about how great the synergy is and how wonderful it's gonna be and how how what what a great match this is because it really is, and we appreciate so much what you guys have done. But you also have to think about what happens if it doesn't work out and literally thinking about who owns what, which is what prenuptial agreements, I guess, I've never been in one, are all about. And so that's the hard part. And and I will say that in the transition from the previous manager of the farm to the current managers of the farm, that was a sticking point as to improvements that have been made on the property, who those belong to, and what could be removed from the property with the lessee and what was actually belonged on the property with the lease or so I think I mean, the way to avoid the problem is to be clear about it even while the relationship, which I hope is long and prosperous, even while the relationship is good And say, if there's something that comes in on a grant, I mean, stake a claim on it that says this is not permanent because that's mostly how it's defined, permanent versus temporary improvements. This is a temporary improvement, and it either belongs to a different organization that secured the grant or it belongs to the leasee, but it doesn't belong to Nibley City and get agreement on that when those improvements come in. Can we live with that? I mean, it's just gonna take a commitment to say, yeah. That's what we're gonna try to do. Okay.

I'm just asking what I know, which is every receipt that's purchased is also the copy is made of it because receipts don't really last, I've learned. I think they kind of go, you know, as the long term. So everything is taken together and put once it was over. And so we can file in

Yeah. I mean, an example is the the Hightower Greenhouse, right, that came in grant through extension. Is that a permanent improvement, or is that a temporary improvement?

Well, it it came through a different grant at least city with any funds for it. But I don't know. Like, I guess, it a compliment to you as part of this should go to it. Okay.

Okay. That that's very gracious. Thank you. I I would not have been disappointed if you said that that would go if the lease doesn't work out, but I think that's gracious. Thanks.

Right.

Perfect. Thank you. Go ahead. In the interest of both parties, does does these agreements need a crack at defining permanent and temporary, or we feel okay?

I would rather get specific about particular items Got it. Than define the terms. K. I would let the context drive it on specific items. So maybe an inventory list and agree now, you know, as to whether that's city owned or not city owned, if if if that's fair.

And one thing I did add to try to help that or clean that up was that to define that any of the temporary personal improvements that were Well funded with Nibley City money Yeah. Would remain Nibley Cities even because it it does talk a lot about permanent and temporary, but I want it clear that even temporary things, if purchased with city funds, would remain the property of the city. Yeah. So, hopefully, that's okay. It also talks about in writing

Yeah. We can make these Yeah. Yeah.

And so, I mean, the thing about Mibley City. Funds go into your budget. Right? They're commingled. This is the commingled marital estate making this weirder than it should be. But if if those assets are commingled, right, all this Nibley City money bought that. No. That was a grant from somebody else. Well, I don't know. It's all mixed up inside your budget. So I'm with you, Justin. I'm not arguing. I just I still I'm still gonna try to have a inventory list.

Yeah.

But we should do that.

Any of the like, anything that's bought for the farm, does pay down there.

Great.

Just another quick amendment. Number three here is sort of kinda restated in item

number eight. Was 18, I believe? Yeah. It's just it was getting rid of a repeat. Right? Yeah. So that's why that

this section got crossed out there. It says the same thing down further. Added that the shares would come from the name of the back Smith Fork Irrigation Company. We already talked about that change. This just this quick little change just as they're required to give us a operation or a report every year of what went on at the farm, and I just added to kinda talk about the future and forecast anything upcoming. I think that's really the changes that staff suggested. But the big question, we should be on the same page on what you wanna do with insurance and those numbers, whether you wanna stick with the 2,000,000 or go with the 1,000,000. But I think that that's all the changes that that, mayor and I talked about from what was presented by the, nonprofit.

Nathan, you're sitting on both sides of the fence on this. What do you think?

The staying thing signed.

For a million or 2,000,000 Oh. On insurance.

As as Roxy said, the the insurance is a threat to the organization, period. The cost of it, it's it's also an asset if things go south. But so, I mean, the only one that you know, on the city side that I was worried about is is the actual farm. There's a lot of buildings and a little more liability, I think, around that property than than Hollow Road. But I think if something goes wrong, something goes wrong. And 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 don't feel that different to me, to be honest with you.

Well, remind me what we learned about was it Wheeler Farm?

Mhmm. So it was Yep. County

Yeah. Ran or was actually a nonprofit had an accident Yep. And it is now back in the county's hands because of the accident.

Yeah. Yeah. The biggest threat to the organization is paying for the insurance or needing the insurance. So I think no matter what the cost is Can't afford either one. It's not gonna work. Yeah. So like, it it's balancing how much the city's willing to be okay with the one or the two.

And and I don't know at what point the city is enters the liability. I mean, we can get sued all the time about anything.

And you're I believe, you know, coinsurance. That's a coinsurance agreement. Right? Like Yeah. Cities consider as the labor source. Indemnified. Yeah. Right. And how many years did we operate? Without it. Without it?

I'll go on the woods.

I think it's, you know, more open and more used, but also maybe managed differently also. So I think we're okay. With the one? Out of 1,000,000. I think we're okay. K. For three years, I'm willing to roll the dice as a city person. Okay. Terms for three years. We can address it again. Or six, I guess. Is it on a Mac? 10. Or 35. 10. 10. Yeah. Oh, Morgan. The farm one. Ten's a little longer. But

That the the 8,000 covered both properties?

Okay.

I I think whether you have a million or 2,000,000, one accident, you're on the severity of it back. That disappears

If somebody dies, it's more than either of those. Either. Yeah. So are we okay with a million?

How's it written? It's right now crossed out too

and has 1,000,000. Okay. So when we get a motion, we'll know.

I have wasn't that big of difference.

I think I don't remember if it was our suggestion or yours, but I I think there was one in there that talks about, like, if things grow substantially, like, it'll increase.

Is that not What's that? Yeah. It's in here. It says, at least she shall carry out its own expense property damage insurance in the amount of $1,000,000 in parentheses to be increased to 2,000,000 if operations expand substantially or at the request of the lesser upon renewal and public liability insurance in the amount of 1,000,000 for any one person and 2,000,000 for any one accident. So it does I mean, it kinda puts a little wiggle room in there.

How do we measure substantially? Yes. You get to request it. Because, you know, the the entity is reporting every year what's going on. Yeah. So we'll know.

It's it's $85.63 for the two. And then this one is $76.75.

And a 1,000,000.

You should get 10,000,000 because it only goes up by a thousand Yeah. Million. You think of a deal you could get at 10,000,000.

Yeah. I'll make a motion Thank you. To approve both lease agreements as suggested by staff.

K. There's a motion I'll second. From Nathan, second from Aaron, to do the redlined versions of both lease agreements. I haven't talked to Con Smith about this. He's good with it?

That's a great question. I thought about contacting both of the neighbors Hollow Road. All the neighbors and just got busy and forgot. I so they have no idea about this. And Khan has had his horses on this in the past. Yeah. And he's aware that we are talking about leasing the property, and he has an issue with some fencing that he put up, and he's working on a cost to just leave it or See what I mean? Depending on what the cost is, we just tell them to get it off. Yeah. Take it with you. Yep.

Hans' a good ally. We we don't wanna make an enemy of him. He's he's a good guy. Yeah. But I did fail. I was gonna notify some of the neighbors, and I just got bit of it. Worried about fire hazard more than anything else. Because if there's no animals on there, nothing gets eaten down, then it grows up and becomes a fire hazard. Yeah. Well, I won't say more than anything else. He has expressed that concern. Yeah.

K.

I think we should write into the lease agreement. You can't trample the pollinator garden.

For the safety of your marriage. Or else you'll be looking at Then we then we will be looking at a prenup. Right?

Yeah. There there is even with Conn's fence, there's still missing fence. Like, there's still some work that needs to happen to be able to put anything on this property because the east side of the canal is not fenced at all. So an animal could walk through the canal right onto Hollow Road right now. Con's fence is mostly along the back. So

Is that a day of service activity? Maybe.

I was I'm stretching the fence. Driving on Hollow Road. No. I was riding my bike on Hollow Road south of Nibley, and there's something going on walking on the side of the road. I couldn't figure out what it was till I got closer, and we had a kid come in here. He came in here and gave us an appreciation plaque for letting him raise pigs at the Morgan Farm. Nicest family, nicest kid, and he's grown up now. And he has a steer on property at the very end of Nibley on Hollow Road. And he's out, like, walking this steer that's three times bigger than he is. He's grown up, but the steer is huge. What are you doing? They said, oh, you gotta keep them walked. You gotta keep them exercised. But now that's dedication

for

a walk. So those are the kind of people that

get involved in four h. My question on that is is he picking up at like, dog poop, is he picking up after?

Hollow Road. Yeah. Oh, okay. It belongs.

Is there a concern

of doing the Hollow Road property now with what you talked about with current situations?

With the pollinator garden? Pollinator garden, Con Smith,

debate over scent

you know, senses. Ali, I I haven't talked to Con about it. I guess you haven't either.

I mean, like I said, I don't think there'll be animals on there in three days. But

Khan doesn't have his animals on it. He's found other things to do with his horses.

Is this the neighbor who uses the road as a driveway?

Yeah. Well, he he has an easement. If you go back to the parts viewer, he has an easement to access his property on that Okay. That road.

Yeah.

Mhmm.

Let's vote. Yeah. Okay. Any objection to voting? The motion is to adopt these two lease agreements. This isn't a resolution. I'm just gonna ask for a voice vote. Those in favor of adopting these agreements, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? K. Perfect. Let's get her done. You guys are doing great stuff. And I overhauled my tractor this winter, so we're ready to go. Let's last thing on the agenda then is council reports and staff that didn't Get a turn. Get a turn. Right. Thanks. Erin, do you wanna start? Yeah. Sure.

I took some children on a garbage walk the other day where we go, and I make them pick up garbage. And we filled up multiple garbage bags full of garbage in Firefly Park. That was mostly construction detritus from the Sierra Homes construction site. So I'm wondering if we can reach out to Sierra Homes and ask them if they can clean up a little bit better. There's a lot of stuff that's just blown in the wind, and it's just blown across the street into the park. Also in Firefly Estates, I noticed right on the corner of 12th West and what is it? Like, 2300

South? 22. Or the old road or the new road?

Okay. Pull up the map. Okay. So right yep. We're looking at that intersection. The Southeast Corner home down right there, they're putting in a fence. Right now, they have the posts, the vinyl posts. Mhmm. I wanna make sure that we know that once the pieces are in are put in place, that you'll act there will be the correct visibility looking left, like, looking south. Yeah. And then they have a fence permit. Did they get a fence permit? Did they get a fence permit? And is it is the fence being put in the right place? Because to look at it now, it's like, I think when that fence is is constructed, I'm not sure that I'm gonna have great visibility of the cars who are go moving north. Does that make sense which direction I'm talking about? Yeah. So I just wanted to double check that that fence is going to be compliant with what we need for site visibility. Okay. Cool. Okay. Alright. Very good. Sky. Just He's on top of stuff. Fingertips.

And his fingertips. Okay.

Good.

And then on that same note, further south on Nibley Park Avenue in 12th West, I just wondered if we have any concerns about so on the the the house that's on the top, I mean, that's kind of Squampus. But northwest, that one, there's a tree on the corner, which is I'm wondering if it's gonna be difficult looking north to see visibility if we need it if that will need to come out or not or if we're not concerned about it.

K.

And that's all.

Thank you, Aaron. Nathan?

Since we have the parcel viewer up, about a year ago well, not a year ago. A while ago, I was approached by a citizen about the trail that runs along over, what it's called, Fox Hollow. So 1632.

Foxborough.

Fox yeah. That one. There's a trail that goes along the specs part of that community right there. You know, Justin, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. This is rare. Yeah. So right there. They asked, you know, hey. Could this get paved? It's currently gravel. Mhmm. I know what you're talking about. And council member Sweden and reached out to Tom, and and we got a quote. So that citizen is just was encouraged to talk to us again as budget came up. So I guess my ask is to find some time in the next few weeks or months to go walk that trail and decide if you feel it is something that needs paved. And I'm happy to send the information of why they felt that. But that was just an invitation to the council to do that. Gus, can you go to 12th West in Nippley Gardens? You may ask us when public works this year, but zoom in for me. Alright. That little thing surrounded by the fence and Oh, yeah. It's falling down. Yeah. It's been in disarray for a while, and I feel like people are take is there plans to

address that, or do we need to do something We'll probably last. We'll probably have to do any if you want it done because they could care less, the canal company.

Oh, it's owned by the canal company? They own the well,

and we probably require the developer to put up the fence around it, and they just don't care. They don't care what it looks like. So if we want it fixed, we'll probably end up doing it.

Mostly was the question of is it ours and what do we care? Yeah. I I can have Rod go see what's all I want It was mostly like a security thing. Like, if that was something we owned and I worked about I If it's a mess. Yeah. If the math's a mess. And Yeah. So, again, if you don't know what I'm talking about, maybe I know. Go swing past that and make a decision there. And then I think it was Randy that had brought up that our resolution about 12 west amendments included a rumble strips. And I didn't know we kind of got the idea that, like, budget wise, it's probably not gonna happen anytime soon. But Gotcha. Just again, if if we felt we needed to bring that up and actually remove for this year or just wait to see how budget goes. But

I just wanted to bring that back up again. I don't have I I assure you, it is not gonna happen until you amend the budget. Like, we just don't have the money budget.

That's it. Thank you. Garrett?

The only thing I have is I had a I had two residents talk to me last week asking about is it Nibley which is the road that goes to Thomas Edison off at 12th? Nibley. Is that Nibley Parkway? Avenue, please. Park Avenue? They they asked if there was any chance we could ever do, like, a flashing stop sign or something to bring attention for when the kids are crossing to just make it more visible? So I told him I would bring that up.

Isn't that where we're doing the external traffic study?

Yep. Yep. So but I told him I'd bring it up. So Are you okay with seeing what falls out of that study? I think we need to because I know that there's rules on what all we can do. I don't know if a flashing falls under that or if that's because I noticed when I was driving down there the other day, there was flags on coming out of Stonebridge on that crossing. There was, like, a holder on the stop sign with orange flags. Mhmm. I don't know when those got added. But A while ago. Well They're all I just haven't noticed them before, but I don't know if those have helped or if that's something else we could maybe put there for now until we get that study done to

they were just concerned that there's, you know, just somehow making people aware when the kids are crossing. On the East West? You mean you wanna just switch out, swap out the stop signs for You're talking to Oh, up there.

Which is there's that one, and then there's Meadowlane. Meadowlane, which is 12th West. Yeah. Yeah. No. It was Meadowlane. They were they were talking about 12th West. I'm pretty sure they meant Meadowlane. Okay.

So It's yeah. That's part of the study. That's the Alright. Yeah. The other 12th West

Yeah.

12th Freeways, that's where they have their traffic card person. Oh, currently. Yeah.

Yeah. They just wandered on the middle because there are kids, I guess, across there. And, Erin, you probably know better because you're kind of in that area. But I just wanna know if there's a way to make some bring something out, like a flashing light they can push when they cross or just something to make just something to make it so people are aware someone's crossing, though.

Yeah. Not a flashing stop sign, but a flashing pedestrian crossing. Right? It would seem to me a rapid flashing beacon or something. RRFB.

R. Rectangular

rapid flashing beacon. Right.

Not around one. That's

what we've put out here on 3,200. They're about $12 a piece. Yeah.

Okay.

That's all I have. Thanks.

It's very scientific. It's not like a blink, blink, blink, blink. It's like blink, blink, blink, blink, blink. It's, like, all, like, AI'd, I guess. I don't know. It's supposed to be better. It's the right amount of random Yeah. Morse code for Yeah. For crossing.

Probably. But for me, I just I I walk through Ridgeline a lot just as as I walk through or whatever. And I just mentioned that earlier about the park and the sign, and people seem really excited about it. It's fun to see the progress. See it's fun to see our water feature come together. I don't know if anyone's had the the pleasure of going and kinda noticing how the development's going, but it looks like it's gonna be cool. So a lot of people seem excited about it that live around there. So, yeah, that's it for me.

If we can stick to 12th West for just one more minute. Getting several complaints about and people loving the bike lane too much and not using bikes. So just what's our tolerance level for what's you know, what do we do in the bike lane when there's a lot of strollers? And and it's more used as not more used, but it's additionally used as an additional sidewalk. And so there's complaints. And so it's I don't know if more signs or, oh, this is a bike lane or if it's just like, you know, we're happy you're here just to enjoy the extra extra space. And so just a thought. What what do we do we have any any opinions or thoughts on on how we regulate the the bike lane use on twelfth?

That's a great question because I've not run into it, but ran around rode around it. And the one that the one that's a challenge for me when I'm on my bike in that bike lane is the folks that are walking their dogs because they have a 10 foot leash, and they span the entire bike lane. There there's there's it's hard to get around them. And I am just

so far very patient and glad they're there, like like you're saying. Yeah. They they like it. I mean, it's like, oh, this is an extra sidewalk. I mean, it it and it's And it's great. That's what people love about them. Right. So I bring that up. It's like, I don't know if we just say, well, everyone's just enjoying this, or what do we do?

That's a great question. And so my thought was maybe it'll just take care of itself. Itself. Maybe as more bike traffic increases, people will say, oh, this is getting to be a pain, all these darn bikers on the bike path. Maybe I'll go walk on the pedestrian path, but I kind of I I appreciate what you're saying. I sort of in my mind, I punted on it. So let's let's wait till the use goes to where it becomes a the use problem. That's all I have. Good thought.

Justin?

I don't have anything extra. Hasn't been talked

about. Okay. Talon?

Well, I just wanted to briefly say, I probably should have said it earlier, but I wanted to express gratitude for an awesome team working at Nibley City. And and we train really hard, and and we need Justin, but also we can do well with Justin and appreciate his leadership. And, yeah, just wanted to pass that along.

I had one more if I can send you. Because the park that originally park. What do we call it now? Nibley City Center? City Center Park. That's such a mouthful. I said no.

Who's sleeping? I know.

On 2965 South, there are the two divot speed bump gutters at, like, 515 West and 540 West. I've heard a few minor complaints of it's been beaten per up pretty bad with the construction. Those kind of you know what I'm talking about? You're talking about the cross drains in Old Elkhorn? Cross drains. That's what they're called in Old Elkhorn. Are terrible. Oh. I would just appreciate if if Wall Streets or Public Works or someone's out if they could just see how they feel if it's doing. I just I got a couple of, like, hey. This is awful. And I because it looks bad? Or It it that it's just getting getting it's getting beat up because of the the construction. I I haven't seen it myself or looked myself. But

It's our version of speed bumps. Yeah.

Yeah. I I have I shared that with you all? Our next version of mountable islands will be recessed cross drains. Yeah.

Or just call them speed bumps. I still get lots of request for speed bumps. Did you put a speed bump in my neighborhood? Yeah. I mean, it's a bump. We'll just go down.

That's it. Thank you.

You know what? You guys, I I I know I've kinda been on pain about stuff a little bit on I hope you don't mind. Like, I don't really have to referee stuff, but when you ask to have the floor, it helps so much. And so I appreciate that. And I go to a lot of meetings where people just talk over the top of one another, and I just get so frustrated. And, again, it's not about it's not about me being in control. It's really about one person speaking at a time, and you all do fantastic at that. So I appreciate that. And if you get tired of it, we'll think of something else and make it work, but you do great. That's all I have except for fire and library and boundaries between towns and all that. But we'll be bringing you proposals at some point.

Is there something quick to report on the library? Is that

Well, Nibley City won't be participating in anything but service from Hiram for the next fiscal year because we're in a contract, which is a multiyear contract, which is renewed automatically each year, but we have to give a six month notice before termination. So if we decide to do something for next fiscal year, not the the one after the next, right, a year from the coming June 1 by By January, December. December. Tell Hire by December. And I hope we can figure something out. There it's a it's not a low bar to do anything that the county used to do with the county library in Providence. The county puts $240,000 a year of county general fund money into that library. That's going away. That's the that's where that's money that the county said. First of the year, that's gone. So that's a chunk of money for a few communities to make up. And that's pretty much the operating budget of the library, except Providence provides the building and utilities. But we we pay about 65,000 a year to hire them for library service. That's $26 per resident sorry, per residential unit. Yeah. Because it went up last year. It went up by 50% last year, and it goes up a dollar every year for five years. Here's some interesting numbers I just learned tonight since you asked. And and the thing that makes this hard, River Heights gets service from the county library in Providence. I'm not gonna call it the Providence library because it's the county library in Providence. And they're at about $7 per household for library service in River Heights. Yeah. So that's their expectation of what library service would cost. I mean, that's and that's a different level of service for sure than, you know, Ira does a great thing.

I haven't been to the county library for for a long time. It wasn't, like, in the back when

building? It's a very small building. It's a small building.

That was $240,000 a year to operate it. Salaries and Now we're There's a bunch of costs for online books and interlibrary loan. It's called Libby, I think. Right? Yeah. There's a bunch of those costs. Thousand for that?

Did we never did get a clear answer from Hirem about how many Nibley residents are active users of the Hirem library. I mean, if we asked them, would they give it to us? We then we asked them this nine months ago, a year ago, and they and they flat out told us no. They gave it to us at the meeting. It was, like, 926.

Oh, did they? I think they they they that that was households or total number of people of the memberships,

how many of those were in the same household, they never answered. Oh.

Or, like, how many are active? Like, how many of those haven't even used it in the last twelve months? That's exactly I mean, that's the whole It'd be nice to know for moving to a different if we did move to a different library system, so we know, oh, this is how many residents will be using this, that kind of information.

It'd be nice to know how many residents are using the 26 a year per household Right. Yeah. All of our citizens are paying. Right. Yeah. And they said they could give us the numbers, but they could never give us the numbers accurately enough to charge us appropriately. Yes. So I don't know if you I I'm feeling frustration from you guys like like I'm feeling with some of this even though they're not happy with me for being on the library board, the county library board.

Pardon me. Thank you.

Yeah. They are I I I did have the thought of Let's let's not this year, we're going to rent service from Hiram, but maybe next year, we just go buy a bunch of nonresident library cards and have them for free here at the at city office. Oh, and people can come use them for Hiram? Come and get the library card and keep it. We're not gonna It would probably be cheaper. But that way, we can the people that use the library are the people we know who's using the library. You know? Right? Now the problem is I looked up that nonresident Hiram library card, saw it at $40. I thought, this is doable. We're paying 26 for everybody. But then I found out tonight that Hiram raised it to $70 a year for a non resident

hybrid household. Still much cheaper than Logan's.

Oh, yeah. It is. Yeah. Half the price, anyway. Won't get any further into that. Alright. Anything else? Thanks for hanging out with us, you guys. If there's no objection to adjourning, we are adjourned.