Nibley City Council- 9/16/26

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Zoom tube. Zoom tube.

Hey, Hannah, baby.

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We are live. We are live.

It's too early.

Well, I had to make sure to get all the work. So sorry. So far, you know, it was... Everything's Not

really. That's how I know about that.

Yeah. We're... Thanks for doing this. I

figured it'd be better than showing up and not not working.

Emily, was this your best selling T shirt of all time? Wow.

Yeah. You think? Yeah. Yes. They're phenomenal.

Yeah. Yeah. It was great.

A lot in here is it? It's always hot. Okay. It's a very hot flash at this time. It's a little warm here.

Oh, there's Claire.

I'm going to be this before the movie.

Do it. Hey, Claire. How are you, buddy? Good. Good.

When you

got into the scanning planning commission,

You can now look at you differently.

Yeah. The planning commission? Yeah.

I'm not gonna notice. You don't think so?

Let me question a couple of my votes. And, like, I thought you were on our side.

Twenty twenty six. Before I call the meeting to order, we have a habit of giving a council member a chance to, speak to us on some sort of idea, some sort of opening ceremonies. Tonight, it's my turn, and I've... I can't help myself when I'm doom scrolling on my phone in YouTube. I can't help myself during this season of midterm elections from letting the algorithm figure things out about me. And as I think about the rhetoric, we've talked about this kind of thing before. It doesn't apply to this council. Please know that right up right up front. The rhetoric that goes with that campaigning makes me think about who I want to represent me. And, certainly, my vote will be decided by candidates who can clearly explain their policies and whether I agree or disagree with those policies. But I wonder, should we also consider how a candidate explains their policies and their position? And I think so. As I see it, one of the biggest threats to our democratic republic is the divisiveness inspired by our chosen representatives. And I think that the threat isn't necessarily who wins or who loses, but the threat is that at times, it seems like neither side can work with one another, and neither neither side can speak with dignity about one another. And, again, I see that as a threat to how our country moves forward. We've talked before about this thing called the Dignity Index Project, and I hadn't visited their website in a while. I wondered how they were reacting to the rhetoric that goes along with campaigning. Again, the dignity index assigns a dignity level of eight to one, one to eight, to statements made by public people. The most dignified would be something that represents each one of us is born with inherent worth, so we treat everyone with dignity no matter what. I'll skip a few. Still dignified is the other side has a right to be here and a right to be heard. It's their country too. And then it's pretty quick into the other side. We're better than those people. They don't really belong here. They're not one of us. And it gets as bad as they're not even human. It's our moral duty to destroy them before they destroy us. So we can think about the kind of rhetoric that the candidates offer to us, and I think that's an important part of this electoral process. While I was on the Dignity Index, there was an article about Dolly Parton. And I think all of us are affect... Have been affected by her career. Me as an adolescent boy realizing... I mean, Dolly Parton... When I grew to know her as a... As an adolescent, my father played Dolly Parton songs. I was I was impressed by the character of herself that she portrayed. She was... And my... She was so humble about her beginnings, about where she came from. And even as she became famous, she maintained that that representation of herself that she came from humble beginnings. And I'm amazed at how well she spoke with dignity about everybody. She gave Erin, you'll like this Through her Imagination Library so far, that library has donated over 332,000,000 books to people. So kids just sign up to get a free book every month. 322,000,000 books. Dolly Parton donated a million dollars to Vanderbilt to help develop a COVID nineteen vaccine. So she shared her success with others, and I'm gonna finish off with a quote from 1970... 1997. When asked in 1997, Dolly Parton was asked how she was able to maintain fan bases with both the religious right and the gay community. She replied, it's two different worlds, and I live in both. And I love them both, and I understand and accept both. So I hope we can remember that as we go through this midterm election. With that, would you please stand and join me with the pledge? I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. So with that, thank you, counsel. We'll call the meeting to order and start with a roll call. Randy, please. Randy Spalding. Nick Kinska.

Garrett Mansell.

Ben. Ben Lowerson. Larry Jacobson.

Justin Mahn, city manager.

Cheryl Bodley, city recorder.

Tom Dickinson, city engineer.

Chad Wright, recreation director. Look at Tom go. Claire Shank, planning and zoning. Faithful attendee. Great. Thank you. And then we'll we'll recognize, introduce, other folks that, with our gratitude, have come to tonight's meeting to be part of the agenda. Thanks for that. Next council, if you would consider minutes from August 27 and also tonight's agenda.

May I give you a motion to approve the minutes from the previous meeting and tonight's agenda? A motion from Nathan,

second from Nick to approve both of those. Any discussion on that? Seeing those... Seeing none, those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? K. Motion passes. Next, we have a public comment period. This is an opportunity for anyone to come and speak to the city council about anything they want to talk about. It's not a time for the council to discuss policy matters because we need to do those kinds of discussions in a agenda meeting with notice to the rest of the citizens of Nibley. But it is a chance for us to exchange information and for citizens to... And non citizens to to address the council. I don't see anyone sign up, but the opportunity is here. If you're here for a later agenda item, again, thank you very much. You you don't have to stand up now and speak. We'll put you on the spot later. Anyone, please tell us who you are and tell us what you would like us to hear. Hi there. I'm Clint Richins.

I think I've spoken to most of the city council about this, but I am one of the homeowners that backs up to that public property next to Nibley Gardens with the canal that runs through it. And I am uniquely positioned to, I believe, help better that property for the city. Not a lot of people my age have access to livestock or have the ability to, keep and maintain them. I do through family members, and I'm I'm looking at that picture behind the council there, and I think it's it's pretty cool, the... Kind of the history that it shows. And I wanna preserve a little bit of that history by putting horses in that area. So I think that I can I can improve the space, whether it's through a lease or a purchase, open to either? And I think it would be great not only for the community, but also for... Well, obviously, it'd be great for me. But but it would be great for the community as well. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Clint. I appreciate that. And

it's late on the agenda, but we do have a workshop. Yeah. I know. I'm not sure if I can stay that late. Okay. Yeah. Well, we wish we could stay that late.

Yeah. I have a I have something going on tonight. I have a soccer game. So Alright. But, yeah, if I can make it, I'll I'll stick around. Yeah. And you could listen to the discussion.

We're pretty popular on YouTube. You know? I probably will, if I'm being honest. Yeah. You're you're welcome to play it back at two or three x. Okay. Thank you. But we will tonight likely be talking about that very property. We won't be making any motions or any votes, but we'll give the council a chance to talk about what they would like to see in terms of this, a lease on that and perhaps other properties. Just just in a workshop mode. Okay. So Great. Thanks for coming out. K. Anyone else like to address the council? If not, let's move to a planning commission report. Do we have one? There's Claire. Any... There was no meeting, was there? So that's a great report. Thank you. Parks and rec advisory committee. Chad, are you okay? Nothing to say there. Look at this. We're blazing through it. Maybe you'll be here for the workshop after all, Clint. We do have a chance for some brief staff reports. We can go into later detail at the at the end of the agenda with with counsel and staff reports, but I don't see Steve. Anyone else wanna give the council a quick update? Well, look at that. Let's go right... Oh, you do, Chad. I'm sorry. I thought you shook your head

this way. But... Oh, I shook my head for parks and right committee. We... They haven't had a meeting since then, Kendall.

There's a delay from here to here. Oh, it's okay.

Thanks. I have that same delay. Just wanna report, fall's a busy time for our parks and rec department. We're wrapping up soccer, starting fall flag football. We got through two movies in the park, really three because of a a rain out, and so we've been going gangbusters. I just wanted to mention, I know that the Nibley Children's Theater is reporting today on what they did this summer, but I I just wanna mention how they support, especially our movies in the park, every summer. And Emily is definitely a big part of that. We pull her in on some of our creative brainstorms. She helps us cast some characters that attend. We have access to costumes and decor that really add to that experience. And so if you weren't aware of that, I just wanted to mention that Emily was an amazing gazelle on on stage and really got the crowd going. And, previously, we would pay for characters to come and interact with the public. Emily's been able to cast people and and do some things at a fraction of the cost. So that's been a lot of fun. Also, just wanted to mention... And and I think Kendall reported on this. Craig Marlow is working on a redesign of the Ander Park bike park, the original dirt bike park. Cache Valley RC Club, is hoping to kind of integrate a design. We've asked them to work together. The plan is to have them present something to our parks and rec committee for review and and then have them perhaps share that with you. So just be aware that they're working on that. Also, we're shorthanded. Unfortunately, we have one intern leaving for a mission and another one that recently had a surgery, and so we're hiring an intern in RecAID and just scrambling to get everything done. And I think that's about it. Thank you. Thank you, Chad.

Okay. Now we can do Emily Rigby with a children's theater report. A presentation, not a... Ew. We need more than a report.

Well, I'm Emily Rigby and Laurie Hopkin. So thank you for letting us be here. We love being able to present and just really come and tell you guys thank you for supporting Nibley Children's Theater. We are still the longest running city sponsored children's theater in Utah. We were established in 1983. This was our forty fourth production, and this one was really special. We decided kind of at the end of last summer that we wanted to do something specifically for the semi quincentennial of America. And so Mary Anne Hale went home and she said about two days later, she wrote... She texted us all and said, I have a show written. And, this really felt really special and really important to us. And so we were really excited about that. Okay. Next slide. So why are we here? We take a lot of resources. We take a lot of time. We have a lot of kids. So why are we here? A couple of things are we really want to encourage courage and determination and friendship, among the children of our community. One thing I really love about these shows is we have hundreds of kids that come and hundreds of parents that come and spend time in the park for two weeks. They're spending time with people that maybe they don't normally spend time with. We have the kids that are playing soccer sometimes. We have some of the theater kids. We have a couple of football kids. Like, it's just so fun to be able to bring this community together and and put everybody in the same place. The other thing we really love is culture. We have tried to pick shows that emphasize we did a 50 show so that the kids could understand what their grandparents were listening to when they were kids. We've done this two hundred and fiftieth anniversary show, which we really wanted the kids to see the courage that our founding fathers and I would say our founding mothers, a lot of this show was focused on the incredible women heroes that we don't hear a lot about, about America and just community bringing it together. That's the best part of the show. Next slide. So we like to come and report to you what we've done. Our income this year was $9,500. 4,500 does come from Nibley City, and we are so appreciative of that. That is a huge chunk of our budget. Bonnie Darrington has actually put together a report. I can send this to you. This is the report that she sends to all of our, foundations for wraps tax, everything for our grants. So Rocky Mountain Power Foundation gave us 2,500 and the RAPS County RAPS tax... Or the Cache County RAPS tax, excuse me, gave me 20... Gave us 2,500 as well. A couple of pictures from our kids. We did a lot of fun colonial costumes, and I think the kids really had a great time. Alright. Next shot. Next slide. So we also like to show you the expenses. These are our expenses. We ended up coming just shy of our 9,500. But the most important part about showing you our expenses is we want to express not only our gratitude, but our promise to you that we are being faithful stewards of that money. In our costumes, we provide costumes for almost the entirety of those costumes for the 174 kids. This year, we've been up to 250 before. We always try to purchase items that are reusable. We trade with local theaters, which has been a huge blessing. We do things for Movie in the Park. We trade with, Smithfield Youth Theatre, the high schools, and the middle schools. We are able to share things with them. We also like to shop in advance for good deals. Set pieces, we try really hard to reuse and repurpose. And so thank you for letting us keep that wonderful building on 20... I mean on 3200. That is an incredible place for us to store those props, which saves us so much money because we can pull out something. We can look at it. We can repaint it. We can repurpose it, and we're not having to buy new props every single year. Technology, we really try to analyze what is needed and purchase quality items. And then office supplies, we try try really hard to not have any excess. So just hopefully you see that that we really are trying to be faithful stewards of this money. Thank you. Next slide. A couple more pictures of our groups. If you weren't aware, we accept kids that are going into kindergarten. So four to five year olds all the way up to 18 year olds, and they are welcome to come back even after they've graduated and help with, student directing and things like that. This year, we actually even had a lot of, missionaries with service assignments that came back, kids who have done the show in the past and were here working on service assignment missionaries, and they were able to come and help with the show. And it was just a cool dynamic to have people that had been kids as five year olds still be on the stage. Next slide. Seasoned volunteers. This is the biggest part of our show. And we had... This year, we counted 90 volunteers, 16 youth, so a 106 volunteers. Bonnie always goes through and gives this a monetary value. So the monetary value, according to the independent sector website, put this at $91,000 of volunteer time. And so huge, huge amounts. People do everything from writing the music to wrestling the kids to, I mean, hair and makeup, everything is done by volunteers and it's a huge workforce and we're so grateful for everybody that shows up. Next slide. Just to recognize our sponsors, you guys, obviously, we are hoping to look for some future funding. The Utah division of arts and museums for the last two years has not been able to provide any funding for us. However, we kind of have heard rumors through, Bonnie and through our grants that we hopefully will be able to get some of that funding back. So Bonnie Darrington is fabulous. She's always working on our grants and trying to get us more funding. We have a lot of kids that come through. Things are getting more expensive. But just one thing I really wanted to show you on this slide. Our favorite... One of our favorite parts about this show was because it was Betsy Ross putting together the American flag, we wanted to create a life size gigantic American flag. So this is our American flag that we created. And we had the kids work on it throughout the entire show. And then at the end we presented it and Betsy Ross was able to present it to George Washington. And it was just a really special moment. And then next slide, before I get to the end, this is our show for next year. We're really excited about this. It's about the ballad of Rockridge. Again, all of our shows are originals. We write all of our own music, or else we repurpose, we rearrange old songs. So this year's show will be all about a Western kind of Robin Hood tale, Really helping the kids see some fun old Western music and costumes and have that kind of vibe of the show this year. And last but not least, we again want to just say thank you This year, the most incredible part about this show was at the end of the show, we had our American flag that we'd made. We brought out our current American flag. We had the entire audience stand with all of our kids, and we all sang the star spingle banner. And it brought something really special to Nibbly. And I feel like everybody that was there felt it, that we often do this show and it's fun. And we have princesses and, and fairies and goldfish and things. But, but this year it was about real people. And we took a moment and talked to the kids and really helped them realize that the reason they're standing in America is because of the people that they were portraying, and it was really pretty fabulous this year. So from the bottom of our hearts and from all of those kids, we really express our thanks and our gratitude to you for your continued support. I know a lot of you show up. You've had kids in the show. You've done things for us, and just being here and voting yes on that, that agenda and that, budget is really huge for us. So thank you so much.

Anything else?

Emily goes on and on. Well... Yeah. It's just I always find it really unique that we gather from multiple elementary schools, I think multiple middle schools now, multiple high schools, homeschool students from pre k to to graduated seniors. And I don't know of any other organization that does that. And and we put those kids in charge of everything. We let them make choices, make decisions. We let them run sound. We let... We try to teach them and give them responsibility. And I just think it's a really unique and special opportunity that I am always grateful for and and talk about when I travel and with other homeschool families. And I've had multiple families say we wanna move to Nibley because of that opportunity. So I know there's always people looking for homes in Nibley because of children's theater. And I just wanna say thank you because it's really special to me.

So thank you so much. Do you have any questions or things that you'd like us to answer for you tonight?

Thanks, Erin. Is there anything else... I mean, so we, vote in the budget to allot some money every year. Is there anything else we can be doing as a city to help or anything that needs to change for next year to help the production go better? Oh, thanks, Erin.

One thing that you did this year that was actually fabulous was those wonderful risers, the bleachers that you approved. Those were really great to be able to add additional seating. And just as we continue to move forward, I know there's been talk of buildings and where to store things, and we just really appreciate that building on 3200. It has its quirks, but it's really wonderful to be able to have that as an... As a huge resource. So I would just encourage you to continue to let us have that space. I don't have anywhere to store it at my house, and I know Chad doesn't want it in his office. So, we just really appreciate that. And we've had so many children who have moved on from this children's theater and have been able to do really incredible things. Children that have gone on, they started doing costumes here, and now they're teaching costume design in high schools. And children who have started on this stage and really gotten a confidence and are now recording artists. And so I wouldn't take all that credit, but I do like, we do like to take some of that of just giving them an opportunity to lead and to have a voice on this stage. So thank you again. Thank you, ladies. You make us extremely proud. Thank you. It's a lot of fun. We love it. Thank you so much.

Wizard. K. Terrific. Next, I think we should call this agenda item enforcement palooza, maybe. And and I and I also believe that next time we, schedule a a workshop with all of these enforcement folks, we should do it on a night that we have a very contentious public hearing. Sure. And, Tim, I I miss the days of you serving... Of serving together, up here on the council and, you know, look at how you have moved on in your service to Cache Valley and to Nibley, and I'm still here.

Yeah. Thank you. So,

yeah, I think you'll be here forever. So you you try to retire once from your other job and went back too. Right? Yeah. So some of you... Most of you know me, some of you don't. I'm Lieutenant Tim Ramirez. I I live in Nibley as well. I am the patrol lieutenant, so I supervise all functions on the patrol end. So all the marked cars you see out there, also, the newly, code enforcement program that we're putting together, which you guys are helping spearhead, which is awesome. So we haven't done this for a while. A lot... We we... We've been... I'll be honest, we've been neglectful of introducing star deputies. We should... We used to do this more regularly. I'm trying to bring that back. So you guys have a couple star deputies. One is not so new, but you may know I met them. I'll have both of them step up right now. We'll do the star deputies first. So Rylan Rich and Aaron Preece, who just kinda step up here, and I'll let you guys introduce yourselves. Nice. Just so you know who they are, talk a little bit about the star deputy program, what it is. So the sheriff's designated star deputies are to be your representative for your towns. So I think it stands for sheriff town area representative so that you can have direct contact to things that are maybe more intricate problems that are more than... You don't really wanna call 911 for or whatever, but you wanna talk to a deputy to help you solve a problem. They also are available to attend council meetings if you need them to. Some cities like them at every council meeting. Some council's meetings are a little too long for that. So they... It it just depends on what your city wants to do. There... You... But Justin is pretty good about just, has an open door policy. They swing in there, and Justin has a problem. He knows their number. He calls them that kind of stuff. So just... Some of you guys probably don't know we do that. The star deputy program has been around for, I think, almost thirty years now. It's what we've been doing to... As part of our contracts, what we do with the cities so that you guys have a little more say on how policing is in your city. So kind of think of them almost as, like, your deputies that are specific for your city. Obviously, they are not working twenty four seven. So when you... Your citizens call 91, they're gonna get, they're not doing... They're gonna get, one of our other deputies, but they're gonna pick up anything in these follow-up things like that. So, I'll go ahead and let you... Hopefully, Aaron doesn't leave us soon, and this is all for naught because he is on the sergeant's list and maybe get promoted soon. So... But if he doesn't get promoted, he might be here for a while. So I'll let Aaron introduce himself first and then Rylan.

Hello. My name is deputy Aaron Priest. I'm excited to be here and and to help work with the, Fine City of Nibley. A little information about me. Just so you know, I have eleven years experience in law enforcement. Nine of those I served, in corrections in in the jail in Logan. But I've been in in the law of my family, at least, Cash County sheriff's office for eleven years. I'm just shy of two years out here on on what we call this side of the house, the patrol division. I've been loving it. Having a great time. I just wanted to extend to all of you and to any citizens who might be watching this on YouTube or wherever it's posted. If you see me out and about sitting around, don't be afraid to come talk to me. I'm more than happy to sit and have a conversation with you about whatever you want, whether it was what you had for dinner last night or what sport your kids are playing. You know, know, this year, it doesn't bother me at all. So I'd like to come meet all of you individually when I have a minute, if you're available. But that's who I am, and I'm happy to be here. Do you have any questions for me?

Maybe if our other deputy speaks, and then we can have questions.

Yeah. He's way cooler than me. So law enforcement.

For for either of you on law enforcement before we move on to I'm Rylan Reich. I've been with the Nibley town... Swing town car for just over a year now. I've had many conversations with Justin. Apologize. I don't know the rest of you as as well as Justin. I had a little background on Aaron as he is the Providence Nibley day car. He kinda works weekend... Or weekdays, 6AM to 4PM. I'm the designated swing car, so I work about 1PM to 11PM, Wednesday through Saturday. So you got a little bit of an overlap. You have one of us on almost every day. The star deputy email is... Both of us are on it. So if you have any issues, send it to that Nibley star deputy email. It goes to all of us and our our admin, including our Roxanne or our patrol secretary. Between any of us, we can get you guys taken care of. We'll drop by our our phones... Phone numbers. If if you need something that's a little more urgent, feel free to reach out to any one of us, but happy to be here. Nice.

Comments, questions? Eric, Garrett, go ahead, please. You know what?

One thing we're trying to tackle and I would love a law enforcement perspective is what do we do about these ebikes and escooters?

And e motorcycles.

Oh, yeah. And e motorcycles. Yeah. Everything's e anymore. Right? Right.

Yes. So you and every other city is worried about that. So, yeah, there... It's a number one concern of ours as well. It's... I can't remember the statistic, but it's really up there on deaths right now. We have enforcement shifts that are provided by the state that's... We have overtime that we can provide for those. If you want them specific in your cities, we can assign them just specifically to your city. We've also already done that in your city. We've worked a lot of crosswalk shifts in your city last year and this year. Me and the mayor met last year about it and I work a ton of them actually in the city as well because overtime and I love Nibley so I work it here. And I've been hitting the crosswalks and during that time we do the e bike enforcement without they have to be wearing their helmets, obeying by all the laws. And if it's a e bike that needs to be registered, we enforce that as well. A lot of it's education, right, because they're usually kids. But I've seen a huge improvement on helmets and them driving safe since we've really kind of blitzed it. The school district has put a ton of information out to the parents. They've really done a lot of work with social media and and I I know my kids when they went to the new middle school, got the whole pamphlets on it. So I know they're getting the information out there and I've seen a huge improvement, but, we're obviously gonna stay on top of it. And if you have specific problems, you can send a start up at the email and we can blitz an area or or a certain time or anything like that. Are are there things we need to do to support that, like

signage? Do we have adequate signage for education? Do do people know that they can't ride the motorcycles on our... And ATVs on our pedestrian trails? And do we have signs on our city parks that say no?

Do you have ordinances that they can't be in the parks? I know with Minden I'm... I... We were dealing with that, and they didn't have ordinances for it. And they were gonna have to work on that. Let's let's let's Yeah. Let's let's let us do what we need to. Yep.

Chad had an incident at moving in the park on a Friday night. The the next Saturday, I was... I mean, it's not about any one anecdotal story, but I was having dinner with the mayors from Cache Valley at Heritage Park. Nice, quiet, pastoral evening until a kid on an e motorcycle for forty five minutes ran wheelies up and down the length of Heritage Park. And all the mayors looked at me and said, yep. Just like in our town.

Yeah. Yeah. So I know Minden's working on something to ban them from all their parks. Obviously, if they're causing damage or if you want them trespassed or they're breaking any of the state laws, just call the dispatch and we'll come respond immediately 247 to it. So, if they're burning willies down and it's unsafe, that's... We could probably could probably still kick them out. At your park, we can tell them they can't be there. Yeah. They might not get a citation that day. We don't have an ordinance to enforce, but still call us. If it's unsafe, call us.

Okay. Thank you, Tim. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Please. Yeah. Yeah.

I know that it's in the top three for major injuries being... Oh, I lost my words. That happened to juveniles. It's in the top three dangerous, most dangerous activities that they engage in. The biggest issue from the patrol side of the house is, yes, you can report it, and we a 100% encourage that, but it's often difficult for us to get there in time Yep. To spot them and enforce it. Right? And to They go fast. On that. They go fast and often are just all over the place. I think that one of the most effective measures is is preventative. Right? So signage and making it very clear to your juvenile populace what the rules are. And that's something, like Tim mentioned, that we've we've been working on pretty hard, because we're also passionate about the safety of our juveniles. So

Cool. Thank you. I do something.

I did mention... Fred, to mention one thing. It might be confusing. So you share him with Providence. He is your full time. I don't know if you guys know that. It's just the way it's been it's been set up that way for a while. So, he mentioned the Providence, so I forgot to mention that you do share. Any further questions for them, let's go ahead and

Do you have any further? Yes. I

I have time. Yes. So Hey. You guys are me or for for... I think maybe for for this. Okay. My question is about just

whatever we can do Just kind of align with with the youth and getting them to places safely. Would it be you that patrols in the morning based on... With... Especially with with the schools and making sure people are following the rules with crosswalks and

all that kind of stuff? Is that... That's your So so my my current shift, I work Tuesday through Friday, 6AM to 4PM. Okay. So, yeah, I'm I'm there in the morning. And it's hard to be all places at once, obviously, but I'm trying to split my attention between the different crosswalks that we have between Nibley and Providence. So my question would... Is is just simply, you know, from from a city perspective,

whether it be better signage or working more closely with our schools, do you see anything that we can improve on to make that experience better for our citizens? Because we hear a lot about just... I mean, it's really busy with a new school. It's pretty chaotic. Right? Yeah. I have some

some horror stories about 3200 South, and I hear there's some sort of conflict between the school and and the city, but I personally haven't seen that or been involved in it. So I think I'll just... We'll just try to keep an eye on it, and we'll we'll come to you as we see things. Or if you see see things or have concerns Yeah. Obviously, let us know by... Off the top of my head. I do appreciate it when you're there. You can tell people are on their p's and q's when Yep. Yep. Yeah. Especially in the roundabout

and making sure crossing gardens get get there safely. Right? And and everybody else. But just from a city perspective, if you feel like there's some things that we can do better from a policy perspective or just physical signage or whatever, please let us know because that's a bit Absolutely. Yeah. I'll I'll do a little more,

you know, research. Or just if you notice something, you know, whatever. I'll get back to you. Sure. Yeah. And and you can...

I encourage you to continue to direct that through Justin and Justin. Yeah. He can disseminate it out to us. Perfect. Good to know. Thank you. K.

I can speak to the potential conflict. I I don't know if that's the right word. I have confidence city engineer. So what's his conflict between Nibley and and the school? I... I'm sorry that it got portrayed that way to the deputies. It was just the the road signage when they're putting up signs without city permission, the turning left onto 3200 South, which we actually agree with the sign, just that you can't put a sign up and then expect us to enforce it if you haven't had you guys and approve that sign. So... And also the fact that schools just plop down in cities without cities having any opinion of that, you know, that... That's that's part of the... We... We've talked to the deputies about that because people are wondering why are you putting it in such a busy location and we've had explained to them that the cities don't get to choose on that. So it's the school district comes in and puts that there. So probably the... Is that kinda what you're referring to? K. Yeah. So K. And Justin's been handling it very well, and we've been in contact with that as well. So

Derek? One more question. Yeah. Go ahead. Because I wanna understand different perspectives. Can I do a ride along?

Absolutely. K. Bad boys. Bad boys.

I wanna see it from another... I like seeing it from different perspectives. I hope. To do right along with your star deputies, I think that'd be great. And so Perfect. Just get their numbers and just a quick waiver that you sign to make sure you're not a criminal, and we'll let you in. So they will check you for warrants, so just make sure you're not wanted.

Good.

Anything else for just regular patrol, or do you wanna get on to code Council,

ready to move on? K. To ask one more. Yeah. Please.

Just just perspective on... We've tried some design things and stuff like that for traffic calming and other things. Is there other things cities, specifically Nibley in our size and where we're headed, should be thinking about as we plan for the future, not only traffic, but other kinds of of not warranted activity?

I personally love how forward thinking Nibali is with the traffic engineers. Obviously, I'm not an engineer, but we can give you perspective of how things are working and how... What we're seeing. I I think... I love 1200 West. I know there was a lot of conflict with that. I think taking out the bumpers or whatever has helped a little bit from... It seems like less complaints than I hear. I I don't know if I would give you guys any more advice. I think you're leading the way in that, in my opinion. But my perspective of 1200 West, I can give you some opinions on that because that's where I've been working a lot of my crosswalk shifts. When you're coming through on... By Strata and you have the stop sign stop sign there, that kinda throws people off because it kinda supposed to be throughway. Yeah. And then you get to that next one, and it is a throughway. And I've seen... I've actually had some close calls there. People have pulled out in front of me thinking I'm gonna stop. So I don't know what the the traffic engineers would say would would make that better. We did have one accident, and that was a fairly serious one. And I called Justin and let him know right away. It wasn't because of my opinion. I went straight there to make sure someone just blew the stop sign. They just outright didn't stop. And they wasn't even like they tried to stop. So it wasn't a confusion one that from what I can tell that the... Based on the speed of the vehicle, I think, Ryan, you were out on that one. Yeah. And it was clear that they just blew that stop sign. Right. So I don't think it... Stop. Yeah. Yeah. There was no breaking. There was no skid marks. So it wasn't like they thought the other cars were gonna stop and they went. It was just they just went through it. It. So, any other wrecks that you're aware of on 1200 West? I think that's the only one that I've noticed that's been significant.

The only other one was medically induced, so nothing traffic related. Yeah. And I wanna say that was before there were those blinking stop signs now at the intersection of that accident.

I think that has helped Yes. From Thomas Edison. Yeah.

I have noticed, and I already spoke with Thomas Edison. I think they've already cleared out the first week of school. People were backing up so bad that they were... They're actually were into that intersection all the way back on 12th. It backed up past... Normally, it backs up to that other stop sign, but it backed up all the way to 12th. And I talked to their principal, and she said it was just an education thing. They weren't using the back entrance. They were all trying to drop everybody off at the front. So I think that's been remedied. I haven't seen it back up since. But

other than that, I mean, does that answer your question, Nate? I don't... Yeah. I mean, even even beyond traffic, like placement of our parks or designs, we've... You know, in the past when when Firefly opened up, there were concerns about it's not easy for you guys to patrol or or things like that. Are there any things like that we should be thinking of as we move forward that you've seen? Anything from you guys? I don't have anything else. Okay. Just mine.

No. We'll be glad to let you know, though, any type of testing. If they come up, let us know. Yep. Yep.

Okay? Thank you, gentlemen. K.

Mike Wilson, he's your new code enforcement. Are you all familiar with this process, Justin? Have they've all been... Do I need to go in deeper the contract. Okay. So... Okay. Good. We're familiar with what we've done before. Yes. And we we we hired Mike because specifically, we... What we were looking for, and Justin was in on those interviews, we wanted someone with a lot of experience who, knew how to look between lines and knew how to use good judgment and discretion and, wasn't just so black and white. I I really do feel like we've picked the right person for that. I think, Justin, you guys did a great job on your interviews, and, I'll let you guys introduce so you can tell you his law enforcement experience and things like that. So Yeah. Thank you.

So that's his way of saying I'm old Mhmm. With experience. I actually am retired law enforcement, and I have been retired longer than any of these guys have been in law enforcement. So I came back out after almost fourteen years. Retired out of Clinton City in Davis County. So I have a lot of experience helping with policies and doing stuff and working with cities. Clinton City grew from a tiny little town with a stop sign to multiple lights, and we were the first one to have the roundabout in Utah. So we grew a lot, and I went through all those growing pains. When this opportunity came up, I'm like, yeah. I hate the fact when I was in patrol, I hated having to deal with ordinance stuff, so I wanted to help relieve the deputies of having to deal with that. I wanna commend you guys because of the cities and the county that I'm working with, you have a really good ordinance. The way you've written them up, the wording and stuff is pretty plain. You may... Must have left some of the attorneys out of it because people can go through it and read it. You did a really good job, but I am... I'm here... Like Tim said, I'm not here to hammer anyone, hand out citations. I'd like everything to happen without ever doing even a warning. So... And so far in your city, there's only been one that's had to be escalated to a to a written warning. Everyone else has just complied with it. And I know on the PSA that that Cody gave Justin and sent out, and you sent that out for your citizens. If anyone's viewing this or for all of you, I hope you really pay attention to the part on there about looking for volunteers. If you happen to go to 0.25 Circle in Maine, the corner house there, you'll see that it all got cleaned up. That was from the ward, LDS ward there, got together and did a service project because they're elderly and one's in the hospital, and and the wife just can't get out and do anything. That's what our community is about. It's about service. And in our our country, we've lost that. We used to not have to have a code enforcement because everyone helped each other take care of everything, and neighbors could go talk to neighbors, and that's kinda gone away. So I'm here for that if if for those neighbors that can't talk to their neighbor. But I really hope that everyone will pay attention to that PSA. It lets you know when to call law enforcement, animal control, or me. We've already had some calls coming to me that that aren't mine. If it's an active situation where there's a parking problem that interferes with doesn't come to me. And as well as abandoned vehicles and things that aren't... That are on private property, they don't need to go to them. Those come to me. So we're we're trying to get the education done. And so far, everyone that we've talked to about the ordinance violations in your city, most of them didn't even realize that they were violating an ordinance. They just lived here so long that when they have grandma's car and grandpa's car and their kid's car, they didn't realize that they can't do that. So it's just an education process for most of it. Even had some of your commercial guys, the realtors that we've asked to clean up some things, and they've been perfectly fine with it. And I really appreciate that. So if you guys have any questions or anything, we're here for that. But I I really hope that you'll concentrate in your city about volunteers. I know in Clinton City, we had some companies that stepped up that were landscape companies to help with those people that were either too old or or had physical handicaps or even financial things where they couldn't take care of stuff and having people like that that could step in and help. It... That's what our community is about. So

Yeah. Great. Comments? I'll tell you. Mike. Right? Yes. You've got a tough job, and it takes a special person to do this job. And we appreciate you stepping up to that. It's... I think the immediate reaction of a citizen being approached and told that they're violating an ordinance they didn't know existed can immediately escalate. And I think your demeanor... Just briefly seeing you, and and I know Justin was was part of the hiring committee. Your demeanor to help people understand not only the letter, but the spirit of the law and why that ordinance might exist in the first place. And by the way, if you feel like there's an error in our ordinance, this is the group to fix it. Okay? So you have a unique spot where you can compare ordinance from other cities and ordinance from your past and you say, look, you guys. I think you're you're too tight on this or too loose on that. We're we're we're all ears. Okay? And we're we're not about trying... You've said it. We're not about trying to write citations or write tickets or write warnings. We're about modifying behavior to help people understand that this is what it takes for us to all live with one another, and that's the goal.

I appreciate that. Yeah. You're you're exactly right. And so, yeah, I think I already talked to Justin about, like, your noise ordinance, your decibels and stuff, just being aware of things like that. Those are little things along the way that we can work on. So it's that... That's why I like the fact that you invited us here, and we have an open door with Justin all the time that we can just give you all the information and and move forward with any issues that we might have.

Right. And so we're sharing your services with Hiram. And the county. And the unincorporated part of the county, like, throughout the county or... Okay. Yeah. Okay. And is it a challenge to know the different ordinance

from three jurisdictions? They're different. Each one's different, especially your nuisance ordinance, vehicle ordinances. They're all all three are different, the county, Hiram, and yours. But it's not that bad. I just have to remember which city I'm in when I Oh, where am I? You know? Right. It it would be nice if they were all the same, but, you know, each city's been formed at a different time with different people doing it and writing it. And so so I say I really appreciate yours. It's... Your language is clear. So when I print it out for someone and let them read it, they can understand it. One of the other ones has got a lot of legal stuff in there, and they don't Okay. You know, quite understand it, but you've done a good job.

Looking forward to having you help us out. Thank you, Mike. Bye.

Yeah. I'm I'm really excited about that program. I think it's gonna be really good. And I... Just the the mindset of just getting compliance and, like you said, what it takes to live with everybody. So it's important. We'll head and have Amelia step up. She's your representative for animal control. So we don't... Our animal control deputies represent multiple cities, but we try to divvy it up because we only have three of them for every city that we we supply. But she's she's your representative, so I'll let her introduce herself if you don't know her and then have any questions for her.

Hello. I'm Amelia Stredbeck, is my last name. Like he said, I I represent for Nibley City. As far as animal control, I'm only on... Currently, my schedule is Tuesday through Saturday from twelve to eight. So limited hours there, kind of a swing car essentially for for animal control. But if you ever have any issues, of course, call dispatch. There is three of us. So we usually... Our schedules all all overlap enough that we're usually... There's somebody gone. If not, these guys kinda help us out as well. I wasn't sure exactly what the council would want me to bring today. I kinda look... Just looked up the history for calls that we've taken in Nibley, in your city over the last month. With the dates, it would... That would be about the eighteenth of last month. Until now, we've taken about 18 calls. 11 of those calls have been loose animals. One loose animal was involved. I guess I should say two. Two of those calls were dog attacks. One of them was a loose dog that had attacked another. Kind of the rest of those calls outside of those 11 has been loose goats, dog barking, dog attacks. Not Becky's.

Not Becky.

Defecation on property, animal welfare concerns, aggressive dog complaints. We get a a good array of calls. But if if you guys have any questions for me, I'm happy to answer them.

Garrett, please.

So it sounds like... Are most the calls on dogs?

Yeah. Most mostly it's dogs. I've had some goats. We have some cattle, but not not too many.

K.

You a cat person?

Heck no.

But she didn't talk about her experience either. She actually worked at our job and has crisis experience as well. So she is well well rounded. I do think that helps out a lot.

How trained are you at getting ducks out of storm drains?

I've honestly only done one of those calls in the last year. We don't deal with... We have a a wildlife guy that we call urban wildlife control. He kinda helps out within the county as far as those go.

They're cute little suckers, though. You find those things. Yeah. How about bears?

Yeah. I was not. That was another deputy. I have been involved in two moose in the county over the last year, but those are my cool... Those are the only two cool goals I would say that I have. Like you said, I... As far as my history, I started back in '21 about... I started... I was a vet tech for about two years, then I jumped into the law enforcement realm in about 2023, about March. I worked in dispatch, corrections, and now animal control for the last year. So it's been about four years in in law enforcement total between here and Davis County.

Yeah. The same offer to you, Amelia. If there's something that we can do on writing animal control code or animal land use... You you do animal land use as well? It would be... Or does that go into code enforcement? I sometimes Okay.

Okay. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. I can enforce that as well. If if if there's The only thing I've I've noticed that can get confusing, the... Is the ordinances on the leash laws. They read or, so they either have to be have a leash or under control,

which can get a little bit dicey. But other than that, I'm Thank you. Yeah. I'm happy to be here. I think we talked about that when we did that ordinance, and looks like we passed the confusion along.

No worries. Anything else?

Appreciate you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you.

I think that's about it. If you got anything else for me, I think we'll take off, and if you don't, so, yeah, feel free to ask me other questions if you got any. So

Appreciate what you do, lieutenant Tim. I think it's it's just baffling for Nibley City to contemplate its own law enforcement. That's that's just something that the proper economy of scale... Efficiency of scale. Of course, you'll pass along to sheriff Chad Jenson how much we appreciate him extending that service to us, a good service at a reasonable price. And, a a nightmare for me would be Nibley. Now we may have our own fire department, hint hint, nudge, nudge, at some point. I think we're gonna have to step up there. But for us to have our our own police department, I think we're really happy with where we're at on that scale. K. Thank you. Alright. I think we'll take off. Thank you. Yep. See you guys. Thanks, Tim.

Oops. Mayor, we have a training next, and I cannot tell you what is going on with the screen. So I'm hoping maybe it was just warm and needed to cool off. But if you could give... Maybe take a quick break while we try to fix that. Any objection to a short break?

Technical difficulties? Seeing none, we'll adjourn for a few minutes. Just cut to the modem. --. I hope it's not me.

Well, I can't think of a committee in time when a committee didn't come to a resume. Welcome back, counsel. Appreciate it. Looks like we're...

Was the magic to turn it off and turn it back on or something? Turn it off. Did I touch it? No. George's rules. I can go sit out there. What? Bye. What's the problem? I might have kicked the... Come on closer. Thank you. Okay. Next, let's do let's do some open and public meetings act training. Cheryl, we always look forward to having you stand up and give us this terrific training. It it is good. So please take it away. K. Per the Utah State Auditor,

our elected body is required to receive APMA training every year. So I've brought my APMA corn

Oh.

Get out of me to watch this eight minute video, then we'll take a little test together, and your requirement will be taken care of. I'm also prepared to take questions if if if you have any. So, Justin, if you'll hit play, please.

So what is the Open and Public Meetings Act? It's the state law that ensures government actions and deliberations are openly conducted. Before we continue, keep in mind that this video is an overview, and exceptions may exist based on your entity type. We focus on local government, not state requirements. When in doubt, read the law and consult with your legal counsel. So what's considered an open and public meeting? It's when a public body quorum, also known as a simple majority, meets to discuss or act upon government business. It includes the meetings sometimes referred to as workshops or executive sessions. Regular meetings, public hearings, electronic meetings, and emergency meetings are all open in public meetings. Open in public meetings don't include chance or social meetings. A public hearing is a type of open and public meeting where citizens have a reasonable opportunity to speak. Public hearings happen when a government adopts a budget, imposes or increases taxes or fees, or transfers money from an enterprise fund. These meetings have extra notice and posting requirements and won't be addressed in this video. An electronic meeting is a type of open and public meeting that's convened electronically, such as via phone or the Internet. Remember, the governing body must adopt a resolution, rule, or ordinance allowing and governing electronic meetings. OTMA adds additional requirements too. An emergency meeting may be held to discuss an urgent matter due to unforeseen circumstances. In order to hold the meeting, the best notice that's feasible is provided of the time, location, and topics to be considered. An attempt is made to contact all governing body members, and the governing body majority approves the meeting. An open and public meeting may be closed to discuss any of the following, a person's character, competence, or health, collective bargaining, litigation, certain real property transactions, including any form of a water right or water shares with specific restrictions, security personnel, devices, or systems deployment, investigations of criminal misconduct, and private or protected information for the Utah procurement code, including trade secrets. A closed meeting may be held only if a quorum is present and the meeting was properly noticed. Two thirds of the governing body present at the meeting need to vote yes to close a meeting. Quick math lesson. Two divided by three equals 66.7%. Let's say your governing body has five members present at the meeting. If three out of five members vote yes, that equals 60%, which is not equal or greater than 66.7%, which means you're one member short and would need four out of five members to vote yes. During a closed meeting, a governing body can't interview someone applying to fill an elected position, discuss filling a midterm vacancy or temporary absence, discuss the character, competence, or health of a person whose name was submitted for consideration to fill a midterm vacancy or temporary absence, prove any ordinance, resolution, rule, regulation, contract, or appointment, or take a vote unless it's a vote on a motion to end the closed portion of the meeting and return to an open meeting. When a governing body closes a meeting, the following must be publicly announced and entered into the minutes of the open meeting at which the closed meeting was approved, the reason or reasons for holding the closed meeting, the location where the closed meeting will be held, and the vote of each member of the governing body either for or against the motion to close the meeting. If a closed meeting is discussing a person's character, confidence, or health, or security personnel devices or systems deployment, or several other exceptions mostly related to state bodies or project entities, no recording or minutes are required. However, the presiding member needs to sign a sworn written statement stating such. If the closed meeting is held for any other reason, a recording must be made, which includes date, time, and place of the meeting, names of members present and absent, and names of all others, except where disclosure would infringe on the confidentiality necessary to fulfill the original purpose of closing the meeting. Regular open and public meetings require twenty four hours notice. The public notice includes the meeting agenda, date, time, and place. Public meeting agendas need to include reasonably specified topics to be considered with each topic listed under a separate agenda item on the meeting agenda. The governing body may not consider a topic in an open meeting that wasn't on the agenda. If a new topic not on the agenda is raised by the public during an open meeting Uh-huh. The governing body may discuss the topic. However, final action may not be taken on the new topic during that meeting. Additionally, entities holding regular meetings scheduled in advance over the course of the year need to provide annual notice of the entire year's meeting schedule. The notice must include date, time, and place for each meeting. Notice is posted on the public body's website in a public location such as the location where the meeting will be held and on Utah's public notice website in accordance with Utah code 63G dash 30 dash 102. Typically, posting on the public notice website is done by the records officer, recorder, or clerk. However, it's the governing body's responsibility to ensure notice is provided. State archives has prepared a training manual and quick guide for owners and posters as well as training videos that can be accessed at their website, archives.utah.gov. Written minutes and a recording are kept of all open meetings with few exceptions. Written minutes include the date, time, and place of the meeting, the names of members present and absent, the substance of all matters, names of citizens providing comments, the substance of the comments provided, any information a body member request be entered into the minutes or recording, and a record by individual member of each vote taken. A body with elected members must record each vote in list format by category for each action taken by a member, including yes votes, no votes, and absent members next to each member's name. A recording must be a complete and unedited record of all open portions of the meeting from beginning to end and be labeled with the meeting date, time, and place. All or any part of an open meeting may be independently recorded by any person in attendance if the recording does not interfere with the conduct of the meeting. Pending minutes means written minutes of an open meeting in draft form subject to change before being approved by the public body that held the open meeting. Pending minutes must contain a clear indication, such as a draft or pending watermark, that the governing body hasn't yet approved the minutes and that the minutes are subject to change until the public body approves them. Approved minutes means written minutes of an open meeting approved by the public body that held the open meeting. Entities must establish and implement procedures for the public body's approval of written minutes. Public meeting pending minutes, approved minutes, and recordings are public records under grandma. Any individual who publicly presents information relating to an item on the public body's meeting agenda must provide a copy of the information for inclusion in public record. Make pending minutes available to the public within thirty days. Within three business days after approving written minutes of an open meeting, make approved minutes and any public materials available at the Utah public notice website, the entity's primary office, and the entity's website. Within three business days after holding an open meeting, make an audio recording of the open meeting available to the public for listening.

I just wanted to commend the Nibley City Council on how well you follow the open and public meetings act. I know I tend to hover around a little, but I really don't feel like there's a need. I feel like you're very... You you follow this law very well. I'm get... I have a little quiz for you, and I'm gonna put every one of you on the spot. So this first question is for Randy. Oh, good. If a new topic not on the agenda is raised by the public during an open meeting, the government body may discuss the topic. However, final action may not be taken on the new topic during that meeting. True or false? That's true. Very good, Randy. You earned your popcorn. Nick, you're ready.

Oh, okay. Here we go.

Loosen up. Regular open and public meetings require twenty four hours notice. The public notice includes the meeting agenda, date, time, and place. Notice is posted at the Utah public notice website, the public body's website, and in a public location such as the location where the meeting will be held. True or false? True. Very good. You're ready, Garrett? It's over. This is also another true or false question. All or any part of an open meeting may be independently recorded by any person in attendance if the recording does not interfere with the conduct of the meeting. True. Thank you. Good job, Garrett. Aaron, are you ready? Public meeting pending minutes, approved minutes, and recordings are not public records under GRAMA, which is the government record access and management app.

I actually don't know that one. I'm gonna guess true.

It is actually false. Oh. Any, anything created here at this meeting, including items that are presented by a member of the public, you... You've maybe have seen me get a copy of those items. Those have to be put into the public record, and they are, they are public and subject to grandma. Yeah. Pretty much everything the government collects is subject to grandma. There are certain conditions. And if you look under... So thank you for getting that one wrong, Erin. You... You're allowed us to have some discussion. Any, anything... APMA is title 52 chapter four. And if you look under the closed section, there are many, many reasons, that you can close a meeting, but there are only a few that can be... That a municipality pilot can use. But this day has... It it gets really confusing. Like, our code enforcement officer says it's... You'd need a urine and thumb them if you know that reference to interpret that code.

Can I ask a question on that? Sure. So if we correspond with constituents, it seems like that correspondence is subject to grandma requests. Yes. It is. And so does it help you or hurt you increase or decrease your efficiency if we copy you with that correspondence?

If I am given a grandma request and I have that record and I have kind of a

a recollection of it, that would certainly help. But if you don't get a grandma request, it's just wasted bandwidth. So which do you prefer?

Whichever you would prefer. If Okay. If I had a grandma request that was at seeking that type of information, I would probably have to go through your entire, Larryj@nibleycity.gov account, which is why you're encouraged to use your your government accounts and not your personal accounts and all of your government dealings.

Okay. Thanks.

K. Nathan, we have one last question for you. Is fine.

Following is not a justification for Oh, I get a multiple choice. Are you asking me? True and false. It's it's it's Maybe I need to do... To repeat. It's not just Which of the following is what? Multiple multiple choice. Justification

for closing a meeting. Okay. A, to discuss the character, competence, or health of an individual, b, to hold in... To hold investigative proceedings regarding allegations of criminal misconduct, c, to interview a person applying to fill an elected position, d, to discuss pending or reasonably imminent litigation.

C.

That is correct. Could... Mayor, could you perhaps tell me the keyword in that c if you remember it? Can you read it to me again? To interview a person applying to fill an elected position.

Elected position.

Lee, the elect... Elections are the duties of the citizens and should not be done in closed meetings. There... No part of that should take place in a closed meeting. That was... You should all consider yourself trained in the OPMA. You've filled that application. We have received our points for our our... From our auditor, and you'll have to let me know if next year you'd like to continue this tradition we have of doing our OPMA training together or if you'd like to handle this on your own individually.

But I will continue to bring OPMA corn. I vote for the one that gets us popcorn.

Yeah. That's okay. Do you have any questions? If... Could I ask a question? It seems like this has come up a fair amount recently on the whole ex parte communications thing. Are you gonna touch on that, or can I ask questions about it? Or... I I I did a lot of research on ex parte communications today, and I need some.

You you all received a booklet on your... On the dias today that speaks about ex parte communication, which is the council member speaking with a a a proponent or someone seeking something from the city. And there's a reference to the OPMA code in that... In those documents, but I went through OPMA today and couldn't find anything about ex parte communication. So I'm still doing some research, but it is something that I would like to bring with the council later

once I've got more clarification on it. Okay. It just made me think... Because I know citizens reach out to you guys all the time and talk to you guys on a one on one basis. And it kind of... Maybe the question mayor asked earlier is it... I... Because it seems like the keyword, as we were looking at earlier, was private conversations. Like, you're not supposed to be having private conversations with an applicant of any sort. And, again, Cheryl will mop some of this up, but maybe in an email phrase, I don't think it would hurt to maybe cc myself or Cheryl just to cover that because private seems to be important part of the conversation.

Yeah. It's interesting, though, that I don't think APMA limits the ability of an elected official to correspond or consult or speak with... Commits with constituents. Our constituents always have access to us.

And and OTMA deals with the quorum. You need to be doing the the business in... With a quorum present. And when you're when you're speaking with a resident and it's just yourself, you're certainly not with a quorum. So I have actually reached out to the individual that wrote that training. Levi Roberts also attended a planning training where they discuss ex parte communications as well. So he and I are working together, and we just wanna make sure we're on the same page and have clear and concise information before we bring it back to the council.

Okay. Thank you. So ex parte would be in a in a judicial sense, like a judge that speaks with one attorney present. Right?

I I can't speak to that quite yet.

Yep. Personally, the only times I've ever seen referenced is in courts. I haven't seen it.

But in you code, but I am not an expert by any It seems like it keeps coming up in conferences and things we go to, so it must be an issue somewhere.

I remember more of that at the planning commission than at city council, again, because the council is an elected position, and constituents need access to their Yeah. Makes sense. Elected representatives. So so you don't have to... If you wanna talk to a citizen that's opposed to something or in favor of something, you don't have to have the other party involved in that conversation. Now at the planning commission, I remember us in that quasi judicial sense being worried about ex parte communication.

So what if it's a developer asking you questions?

I I think we didn't do it at planning commission because it was ex parte. It had to be... It it had... I I used to love it, and I just I just tell developer I'm... I can't talk to you about it, but come to the meeting, and we'll talk about it. But that's the foggy

old man memory. Mhmm. But it doesn't translate to a legislative

issue that the city council makes a decision on? Correct. Because in the Democratic Republic, when we have elected representatives of the people, the people have access to their representatives. Interesting. We can't limit the the access of people to their representatives.

Okay. Well, I look forward to more information.

I do too. I For sure. I believe the individual that wrote that, his name is Mark, and I I just would like to know what he's referencing to. I I believe their reference to OPM is incorrect, but I I like his feedback, and I'm very interested....

Someone appeals and we act as... But, anyway, sorry. And for the impeller body?

That might

be that. It's...

Yeah. That's good. Fine.

One note about the training is they tend to focus on an issue that's been well... There may have been issues. And this one, if you've noticed, there are a lot of... More minutes were presented on closed meetings. There are some, cities in the state of Utah and throughout the valley that will put on their agendas the the council may hold a closed meeting for these reasons, and then that's to every reason just to to give themselves kind of an out, and they can decide when or when they do not wanna have a closed meeting. And I really appreciated our city council not doing that, that we decide when a closed meeting is gonna happen. We advertise the the reason it's happening, and you guys are very good at at holding those votes to go into a closed meeting. We've never had a split vote on a closed meeting. It's always been unanimous, so I don't have to do the math. Thank you. And, you're always very good about not holding votes in your closed meetings and having a vote to go out of a closed meeting. So I don't feel like any of that applied to Nibley City, and I'm I'm always very proud that I represent Nibley City. That's in part because of you. So thank you. Yeah. It goes both ways.

Thank you.

I'm happy to represent you all. Did you have any other questions? I do on their math since you mentioned it.

Greater than or equal to two thirds is not the same as greater than or equal to 66.67%.

I think I agree with you.

Snap Greater than or equal to 6.666666666666. The line over the top. Yeah. And if we're talking about greater than, you know, no amount of significant digits can represent that inaccuracy of going to a fractional number when the number is two thirds. Tom, you proud of me? Yes. If you were writing code for the computer, that would matter.

Any other questions?

Mine's a little simpler. Mine is just a thank you because... And in regards to grandma when I started, I appreciated you reaching out to me because I was sending out emails from private emails, and you're like, here's your nibley one because of grandma. And so I've just remembered that and always made sure all my correspondence is done through my Nibbly email. So appreciate that. I appreciate it as much as as you may at one point. So

I'm curious. Have you ever had to go through anyone's email like, inbox on a grammar request? Yes. I have. Okay. Don't tell me anything else. K. It was not fun.

It took a significant amount of time, and I did not receive payment for it. So we changed our code. That's grandma discussion.

Wow.

Alright. Is that all? Questions?

Justin? If I may, just just thank Cheryl. This is very, very important legislation. I know you guys have talked about it. You've referenced a lot. Mayor talks about it, and Cheryl does a great job for us and knows it really well. And so just wanna appreciate Cheryl for keeping us on top of this one.

Yeah. When you talk to your state legislators, said they exempt political caucus meetings when they have a super majority and don't have to have a public meeting because it's a political caucus, not not just caucus, but, I mean, the legislators in a super majority getting together and talk about policy of the state in a closed meeting. Because it's a a party meeting, they get to do that. And to me, that doesn't seem like doing the public's business in public. My opinion. Casey doesn't see how I should be bothered by that. So he said, but we have to talk about people and stuff that we don't want anyone to hear and talk about proposals we don't want anyone to hear. And it's like, that's the point.

K. Got it. Thank you, Cheryl. Thank you.

Okay. Next, I think we're on to resolution twenty six seventeen. Let's talk about fraud risk assessment for 2026.

Alright. Thank you, mayor. This is an annual item that we take care of every year. This is a checklist that is provided by the Utah Auditor's Office. And every year, we just go down this list, and we check the box if we meet the requirement or we don't meet the requirement. And this is just... Really, this is just guidance and direction from their office on limiting our risk for fraud. This doesn't guarantee us there won't be any. This is just a lot of checks and balances and double checks on things to make sure that our risk is minimized as much as possible. And a big part of that is separation of duties when it comes to the money. And I know our finance department, Amy, does a great job of this of making sure that there's always... That that those policies are followed and that no one person is in control of all of the finances. And that's a that's a big part of it. And I know maybe some of you may heard me say this now, but a super interesting YouTube clip if you ever go watch a video called All the Queen's Horses. Talks about this gal in the Midwest somewhere that basically took a town for a whole bunch of money because she was it. She was all of it. She was... Wrote the check. She signed the check. She moved the money at the bank and she was everything. So it's pretty interesting if you wanna go look at it and watch it some evening when you got nothing else to do. But... So that's a big part of this assessment checklist. Some of the other things are just policies. Do we have the policies in place? Are they written? Have they been approved? And then the personnel under the employees sign that they've read the policies? Some... So so really, things like that. We've done really well at improving our scores over the year. We had some discussion this year on item five about training, and Cheryl and Amy were arguing about this up until roughly an hour before the meeting. I think we decided that we could check that box, and we do qualify to receive those points on required training for elected officials.

So So it's only the Open Meetings Act that we require training on? Yeah. Oh, well, the bad news is it gives us a perfect score. Now we have no way to get better.

That's true. Make it add to suggested training.

No. It's still only 20 points. So much for continuous improvement.

Well, do you want me to make it a little difficult? Cheryl might kill me for this. But We could still do it. I would I would like to challenge staff. We've been talking for a long time about redoing the travel policy. And I would like to say that unless we get that done, we don't get five next year.

Cool. Take five off this year so we're not perfect.

No. I just think that's an important one because it seems like in the news, I... That that one scares the heck out of me. Traveling and training and what employees do when they're not in their own town on official business, it just worries me. And that's the one you see in the news getting abused a lot. And then we have none of that going on at all. I just would like to tighten some things up and make some changes so that it's super crystal clear on things. So Is that behavior or none of that training? Tra... Behavior.

That you know of? That I know of.

I'm pretty confident. Okay. Not a 100, but pretty confident. Cheryl?

Thank you.

And other than that, any questions? I know, Paul, so part of this is an internal audit, and we've bounced around over the years and had different council members do the internal audit every year. Council member Spalding took care of that for us this year. And if you wanna maybe just take a minute and tell us what you thought about that experience, maybe what you learned, what you... If you... If there's anything, please. If you notice anything we should do different or something that we should do better, we'd love to hear it.

Well, thank you. Appreciate that, Justin. And, again, my deep sincere thanks goes to Amy and Cheryl. You know, there's 58 items on this list, and you go over these items. And it's... I'm kind of like... Use this analogy. I was thinking about this driving over here. So much as a citizen of Nibley, I feel like I'm I'm a fish in a fishbowl, and I'm so ignorant of who changes the water and dropping the pellets. And the city is run by just amazing people who take care of so much. They have no idea what's going on. And then you go through this process and you realize, oh, they're they're covering all the bases, and they have so many eyes on all of these agenda items that we're reviewing that it's very, very difficult to have fraud. I mean, they just... There's multiple layers, and I just... I walked out of here just feeling disgraceful that they not only are they checking all these boxes and they understand exactly what's going on. They know each other's jobs. So well also that's helpful. They know it's that they're just in the know. And I... I'm sure others have had that same experience. I just walked out just feeling very thankful, for the job just well done. Very clear. And every question I had was answered with precision, and they would show me. And it all kinda runs together after 58 items. But at the time, it's like, oh, yeah. That's... Let me ask this question, and there's the answer. So very thankful.

Excellent. Well, thank you for taking the time to do that. No problem. Those 58 are part of the internal audit. They're not part of Yep. This fraud. I... I'd was... I'd love to see those questions. I'm not volunteering to do the internal audit. But... Excellent.

Well, I was just gonna say that you guys are more than welcome to that information anytime. So if there's ever any point you wanna come in and do the same thing or look at those questions or ask financial questions, we are more than happy to to take care of that at any time that you guys have, whenever you want. You just certainly don't need to wait for the internal audit every year to Yeah. Come and ask those questions. And with that, I'll just answer maybe any other questions that you have. And

I I have a comment on travel policy, which I think I think you're exactly right. We do what's right for Nibley there. And if we need to work on that, let's work on it. I will say that on the other end of the spectrum, I drove to Salt Lake today with a Bear River, a Bragg employee to go to a state CDBG oversight committee meeting. And the Bragg employee and I debated whether I would drive or she would drive, and we said, let's have Larry drive because Larry can get travel mileage reimbursement from the feds actually through the CDBG program community development block grant as opposed to spending brag money for the brag employee to get reimbursed. And and so we... When I when I when I asked, okay. So what... At the meet... After the meeting, what do I what do I need to do to get travel mileage reimbursed? I remembered why I've never done this before because there's a six page questionnaire. And I have to become a vendor to the state of Utah, and I have to be, you know, a registered ten ninety nine employee... Contract employee of the state, and

it's just So donations.

So it... It's probably a... Yet another donation.

It's easier.

We don't need to go that far, do we? It's... I mean, I suppose if if we have employees asking for mileage reimbursement, they're set up to do that. I mean, I would only have to do this questionnaire once, then I'd be set up. But, yeah, we don't have...

With all the information we have just through onboarding process and HR, there's not much more we do Got what you need. For it. Yeah.

Okay. Yep. Alright. Okay. Counsel, thanks for the discussion, and we actually need to vote to accept this fraud risk assessment or not. And it's for first reading. Do we... If there's a reason for a second reading, let us know and... Or let Cheryl and Justin know, and we'll we'll do whatever you want. Garrett, please.

I will make a motion to approve resolution twenty seventeen, accepting the fraud risk and waive second reading.

K. We have a motion, a second from Nick. Did the motion change item five to... As presented, we got zero points there. Do you wanna make us make us get to 20 points or leave that at zero? I'm good either way. Just just I want the points.

You want the points? I want the points.

So I'll interpret that to mean your second is to not approve as presented, but approve with 20 points on item five. Correct. Right? And is that the second as well? Okay. So that's the motion for for us to vote that Amy and Cheryl are perfect.

This... That is true, but this touches a lot of people. Okay. I mean, the entire organization Yeah. Yeah. Has to be able to check these boxes and meet these I'm sorry. On... When Sage is cutting checks, You know? So it... It's... This is a this is a company wide score.

Yeah. Thank you. But they are perfect.

Yeah.

Nick. I'll just say, I think, you know, we... Professionally, I do these things all the time with people and organizations and entities. And I think even though these these things probably traditionally don't make it out there to the public, you know, and people just probably don't typically read through these things or really wanna understand them, I think Nibbly performing so well and being honest honest with our own evaluations, I think that's just another reaffirmation that we're doing everything we can to make sure that we have our own internal policies in place in an order, and that just, hopefully, just distills more confidence in our citizens that Nibley City is doing and acting in their best, on their best behalf. Right? And so I just wanna thank you and staff for, both being honest and doing an excellent job. So thank you.

K. Other discussion? Any opposition to voting? This is to waive second reading, so this would be the real deal. And that means we get to call the roll because we've... We know that because we've been trained on that.

Council member Lowerson, what is your vote? Yes. Council member Mann. Yes. Council member Mansell? In favor. Council member Kinska?

In favor.

Holding. Thank you.

I have no favor. None opposed. The resolution is adopted. K. Moving on to, signs... Permitted signs, including provisions related to political interpretive signs. So we have new information from the first... This is for second reading. We have more information requested by the council, from first reading.

Justin. Yep. And I will take that and appreciate Levi's efforts and work on this. He had his daughter at a soccer game, so he opted to go watch that, and I don't blame him. So, hopefully, I can answer any questions you may have. Apologize if not. But this seems like the two quest... The big... Two big questions that were asked last time that the attorney weighed in on that his information is in the agenda item report was the... Can other kinds of signs be prohibited in the park strip because of content content neutrality, I think was the word that they used. And so based on the attorney's opinion that he he said he felt fine. That political signs are specifically carved out, and he doesn't know why there's this big hubbub of other cities worried about this and talking about this and thinking about this. It's very clear to him that it is political signs only that are exempted from the requirement or... Of being allowed in the park strip. The second question was along the lines of enforcement, and could we require extra efforts for them to put things in the park strip, like official signature from the property owner or a stamp from the city or something to put the signs in the park strip, and he recommended against that. He recommended just doing a complaint based enforcement and leave the signs alone unless the homeowner reached out and complained about the sign being in place, and then go and remove the sign. So those are the two issues that, were talked about last meeting. Hopefully, that answers your question. Happy to try to answer any others you may have.

Yeah. We had discussion on whether Nibley City should be exempted from the prohibition. Mhmm. Not election signs, but prohibition of advertising city events. Yeah. And just to be clear, the way I read the draft in the box is that Nibley City is prohibited from putting signs in the park strip. Did I read it wrong or right? No. That's

There was a red line

crossing it out. Right? But it was in the original Yeah. Just looking I thought. It was in the original, and that's been removed. That's why I'm asking. What what... I I... I'd I'd like the council to know where we're starting. Help me. I I'll reference redlined out or in? I'll reference

section p and number two, which says signs placed on any street right away, sidewalk, Paul Bridge, or temporary signage advertising city sponsored or city approved events are in the prohibited section. So that has been added

That's what I current draft. In the draft that was in the Yep. What's presented to council in the packet. Correct. Is that The city is is prohibited Yep. From using the park strip. And

But it'll be temporary. Signs. Yeah. Who could put permanent ones in?

That's an interesting... Your event here, just

permanent sign with a Yeah. There you go. I was just gonna say that. With a whiteboard.

Okay. So I think that's another one for the council to

to wrestle with. And I've had some questions about that and very briefly had discussions with Chad and other members of his staff on... I I am not in any way trying to belittle or say that those signs are not effective and that they're not important. I believe they are. I believe they're effective. I believe they provide information to the public that is useful, that they come then and register for events. I just personally like the fact and don't like the fact that we're doing something different than everybody else and would like us to be on equal ground in doing so. It was really only... My only comment Waiting for towards that end. That we should follow the same. So,

Chad, let's see where the council goes on this. And if if if they would like you to speak to it, I'm sure they'll ask you to if you're willing to do so. Okay. Garrett?

Look. In the in the packet, there was the two recommendations. One from the planning commission, which did prohibit all, and then the one from staff was asking us to Yep. Exempt

the city signs. Yeah. That was my fault. I didn't speak up soon enough, and Levi took the original draft that did not include that. He he he wrote in there to exempt them. Then I stuck my nose in it and said, I don't like us doing different things. Cross that out. And so that's what was presented to you all, which is a caveat that the planning commission did not see that or weigh in on that particular

point. Oh, so the planning hasn't even ever never talked about this issue. Correct. They approved it the way Levi had originally

proposed it, which was to allow the city to do that and specifically exempted them. So we've got a

planning commission member here.

Would you like to speak for the entire planning commission since you didn't talk about it? Claire Shane from the planning commission.

I don't know if I can put any input into it. But Yeah. Yeah.

And I...

I'm kinda with Justin. I think

rec should have the equal sign as political signs. So I'll give you one second. Versus Okay. Not allowing them. So Thanks, Claire. Do you have a motion for us, Nate? Here, I'll give you a motion to

approve ordinance twenty six thirteen with the amendment to remove the language that does not give... That prohibits city sponsored or city approved events. So, essentially, allowing the city. Yeah. I'll second.

Okay. Motion from Nathan. Second from Aaron. Prove as presented to the council with the change of allowing the city to put city signs, excuse me, in the park strip. Correct? K. That's that's in front of you.

Okay? This is one of those interesting things that state code changes a little tiny thing, and then we look at our entire ordinance and start to make multiple changes beyond what the state code is. Right? So, initially, I think the plan was fix the political sign problem, and we realized maybe our code's not written really well. So there's more in here than just the political sign thing. And so as I've looked at this in the last couple weeks,

I think

it needs more attention beyond the scope. So I think we need to decide if we're just willing to throw in the political sign thing now. Great. But there's some some other things that I think need addressed. So I I I have a list of maybe some things we could do today, but I guess I'm... What I'm saying is that there's a part of me that maybe wants to continue this, but I wanna get a feeling of discussion from you guys before making that motion, which is why I made the motion I did today. So

Nick? So Nathan, the the... Is your thought that, basically, you'd like to just have further discussion on this, or do you believe that based on your motion that the city should be exempt from from the rule, essentially?

Or or do you just wanna open up for a greater discussion about more? Well, I... I'm comfortable with what we have passing tonight with the amendment I made. I think that the city... I'm fine with the city. The city... The residents of the city constantly want to be communicated about with things. And I think we should take every attempt to do it. They own that space technically, so I'm okay with us putting stuff in there. Right? I think it's important. If we have an open house for planning things, if we have recreation events, etcetera, I think we should use that space in a safe way, which is in the code. So I think it's okay. I think citizens would be fine with it. It does create kind of that double standard type thing, but I think it's perceived because I'd rather have... We're allowing political science now. So, like, now all we would get is those. Right. Right? And I think that that is... I don't know. I'd... We should at least also be able to do it as a city. So that's why I support that. There's other things that are not related to the city having stuff or the political stuff that's been changed in here or that maybe needs change in here that we can address now or later if it becomes a problem. Does that answer your question? Yes. Yeah. So I'm okay with the motion happening the way I presented it, but I think that this ordinance needs more looking at. Erin? And I Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. I was just saying the planning commission also, I guess, thought that because they changed a bunch of other stuff.

However

Yeah. I I mean, I second in this just because I I kinda agree with what Nathan was saying that I think as a city, especially in Nibley City, we do a a great job of creating a community culture and having community events that I think people, especially with young kids, appreciate. My own perspective, I have a hard time keeping things in my brain that aren't essential. So I really appreciate seeing yard signs about its soccer sign up ending this week. I'm like, oh, k. I gotta get on there. Right? So I think it does help busy mothers to just see it visually every time they drive into town. Mhmm. But that's just my own personal personal opinion. And I I don't I don't think you're gonna have people... I don't know. Justin, have you had people complaining about

the number of city sponsored event signs? Have you have you ever gotten a complaint like that, or is it more just, like, you're worried about, like, heading it off? No. It's not it's not people complaining about the number of signs. It's it's people who we've enforced on Mhmm. Who come to me and say, well, how come you can have a 100 signs in the right way, but I can't have one that talks about my window clean? And so, yeah, you've gotten those kind of signs or questions and can claim Not not like a not like a lot, but, yes, it has happened.

Yeah. I understand that.

My my intent would be not to disallow those signs, but put them behind the sidewalk. Put them in our parks, put them the same places that people could put a window cleaning sign or stuff like that. In their in their own way. Just to try to get on a level playing field. It's also not a hill that I would die on. And Yeah. I understand. Okay.

In

my opinion, we solve part of the problem. The legislature for, yeah, for change, ironically, has solved part of the dilemma by allowing political science because I think it can be viewed that political signs and city signs are the same thing. It's related to local governance. Now you could also put political signs that are not related to local governance, but related to state or federal governance. But it's still like, well, the government gets to do whatever the government wants to do, including candidates to be a part of the government. So I think they've I think they've eliminated with with this legislature with their action has... And allowing political science in the park strip has a little bit given us a right to put our science in the park strip too. Right. But it does say specifically, right, the political signs have to be either for or against a candidate.

That's the kind... That's the definition of political sign in this. Correct? Sure. So it's kind of hard then to compare a sign for or against a political candidate for election with volleyball startups begin on September 17. Right? Some of those are different. Well, you can be for or against that, I guess. But...

But I I think the point I'm I'm trying to make is the allowance of political signs for or against a candidate still fall into the category of governance. And at a public... I mean, they may not be... They're they're they're running for a a public office, and that somehow lets, in my mind, the city off the hook as a public entity

Yeah.

Of, being allowed to advertise in the park strip as well. But it doesn't let private enterprise off the hook. The private enterprise, they still don't get to put their signs there. Right. And so I think that might be the point that someone would make and and the sign... The window cleaning people. Same... That's the claim. I mean, first of all, they'll learn quickly depending on how well we enforce it. Those signs are not cheap, in my opinion. I've learned since the last time I campaigned. They're cheaper than I thought. Greg, you could tell us they're they're not free. Yeah. And and if if we through code enforcement, they don't... People don't... Private companies don't understand. They can't put their signs in the park strip because they see city signs in the park strip. And now because they see political signs in the park strip, they're gonna proliferate signs in the park strip. And then when those signs get collected by the city and they have to deal with that, I mean, it it... They might have a complaint Yeah. Against us.

Is this... Is the collecting of unauthorized signs in park strips city staff responsibility or Mike, the code enforcement officer, responsibility?

Whoever we assigned code enforcement in the past.

But now it's Mike, our code enforcement officer. Right?

Yeah. But we have done in that as a city employee doing code enforcement. Yeah. Yeah. So whoever's doing it Going going forward, if that were the case. Could have Justin Ma do it if we if if we authorize him too. Yeah. He authorizes himself too. Yeah. Probably one of us could do it if we were authorized by Citi to do it for enforcement.

K. Got a question. Oh, please.

So let me just just explore my ideas. I I wanna know on these scenarios. So who determines what who determines what signs go in what park strips? Meaning that the two lots that I have, the park strips not mine, it's the city's. Right? And so can any political pawn... Opponent wanna put their sign there? Do they need my permission? They need their permission. Does the city does the city...... Landowner. Okay. And does the city would also... The scarecrow scroll runs happening with chatting my permission to put that there also? Or is... I mean, does that... Do I have a a veto on any of this ex... Political, I guess I do. But what about city? If I don't want city signs, does the resident have

a no vote? Not currently as written. K. Mhmm. Right.

I I thought from the attorney's thing, he didn't want us to have that requirement for the adjacent

landowner to have to No. He didn't want us to make the political candidate display proof of approval if I got it right. Is that correct? Yeah. And is that in the... I I believe the need for the approval is in the state code. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We didn't we didn't make that up. But we talked about the need to demonstrate approval on the sign. And that that's what the attorney said. That don't go to... I don't recommend you go to that level of complexity. Yeah.

Nathan, that was your thought. It was. It was. And and the attorney's response was pretty good in that. If if if a sign didn't have that, but the owner was okay with it, we are at a huge risk if we walk by and take it away. So that made sense to me. So I'm looking at it. Yeah. Huge risk.

And I think Levi's plan or recommendation from the planner point of view was we just won't enforce. It'll be complaint based. The... Yeah. It'll be complaint based that somebody put a sign in the park strip next to my house, and I don't want it there. A a political sign in the park strip next to my house, and I don't want it there, which I'm trying to figure out why the why the heck I would call the city on that. I would just go take the sign and throw it in the trash. Exactly. We expect the city to solve so many problems. I would just take it and throw it in the trash. Yeah.

And that create a problem with our science too. Right? I call Chad. It's like, come get your science.

I said political sign. I know. I know. Randy, did you have I...

What's the definition of a political sign? It's in the ordinance. Yeah. It's in the ordinance. That advocates the election or defeat of a candidate for public office or the approval or defeat of a ballot proposition. So it has to be election based?

Mhmm. Yes. Yes.

Just clarifying that. 12 to... It's straight... That's straight. Is there a lot of political signs that are not election based? And so I was just clarifying that.

Yeah. It's That's a good question. What about

Yeah. It's ballot based. Ballot based. Yeah. Yeah. If if the voters are gonna vote on it, if the constituency is gonna vote on it, it's a political sign. Gotcha. Which... I mean, it could get ugly, but there's nothing we can do about it. Yeah. Because the state has said you're gonna allow those signs for Oregon. So, you know, maybe maybe you're not doing what you want to do by giving your... Giving an opponent... Giving someone you don't want to get elected any sort of advertising, but you could you could say some bad things about people on that side with First Amendment rights.

Mhmm.

Larry's a bum.

I'm gonna make a substitute motion Running. Which is to continue this item until planning and zoning has had an opportunity to talk about the city signs being allowed, which they did not in the first place. That's my motion.

I'll second that.

That's K. So that's the new motion as substitute that we would continue this to give the planning commission a chance to weigh in on city signs in the Park Strip. Chad, you... I mean, go ahead. You've been very patient. I... We've... I probably understand your point, but you can make it better than we can make it for you. If you'd like to speak to us about city signs in the Park Strip, please do. Waiting chances.

Thank you, Mayor. Aaron is absolutely right in terms of our community being familiar with what we're doing, whether it's an event or a program. I shared with my staff some research on impressions, and it's fascinating. On average, you have to have five to seven brand impressions before a person will even remember your brand, and that has nothing to do with whether or not they'll they'll take an action, make a purchase or register or attend. So that's that's pretty significant. So having having signs out to to make impressions is critical. And and we... In terms of our promotion, it's not just signs and banners. We have other ways to connect with our community that I think most of you are aware of. Other interesting information about this this question is... And I shared this with my staff. Let's see. The average American is exposed to 4,000 to 10,000 ads per day, and this... These are actually old numbers. That's nearly double the number of ads the average person saw in 2007, and Larry and I might remember this, but five times more than that... You start that way. Five times more than the number of ads an average person saw in 1970. So we're definitely in... Inundated with impressions, with ads, and with signs, and I get that. I understand that. But at the same time, we have found that that what we put out is effective. We do feel like it's important. I I will say this. We have found that when we put a city sign out, it may populate other signs, to be fair. And so what what I would propose is that we look at a a better way. It also takes significant amount of time for us to post these and and watch them. Sometimes the wind blows or the snow covers it or whatever the case may be. I'd propose we look at, as was suggested very early on, maybe a semi permanent or a permanent placement where we can more easily hang things that is out of the way, and and maybe we look at, is there a way to avoid the park strip? Are there better spaces where we could post these? So I'd be happy to explore that, especially in terms of efficiency and us distributing, those signs to make those impressions. And so that's that's really all all I would share with you about that. But they are very important. Just anecdotally, at the Movies in the Park, knowing that you may have this discussion, every person that came to the information booth at the Movie in the Park, and there were a lot, I said, hey. How did you find out about this? And they said, well, Nibley City does a great job of letting us know what's going on. I saw a sign, and then I went to the website or I looked at Facebook. And so the sign simply prompts them, and, they they are important for us.

You have... Thank you for that. Do you have data on whether... And I'm not gonna die on this hill either. I I just... I'm interested in the conversation on whether a sign inside toward the house on a sidewalk would be... How much less effective than a sign in the park strip given that you can put signs anywhere in a park?

Yeah. That's a really good question. I don't personally have data, but I know the more visible sign is, the more effective it is. And I would venture to say the further it is from the sidewalk towards the home, the less effective. But at the same time, we're also concerned about traffic safety and, you know, where people's gaze is and and all of that sort of thing. So, me, personally, I would wanna do something that makes sense, but at the same time, balance that with... We we put a reasonable amount of funding into parks and recreation, and we want to utilize that effectively. And and part of that is communicating with people because we have so many things spinning in our heads. It's important that there's there's reminders out there. Kendall Welker told me in a parks and rec committee meeting, she said, oh, I drove past the sign for soccer sign ups. I know I need to sign up. And we were reminding her in the parks and rec committee meeting of that as well. So that's just simply how it works. Every mother feels that way. Yeah. And I'd... I'll also say, post program and post event... And we don't do this for everything, but we do it a lot. We ask, how did you find out about us? And and many of them are signs, website, or social media. But the sign prompts going to the website and social media.

Other questions? And I'm not I'm not I'm not questioning whether signage is effective. I'm questioning the reduction in efficiency, effectiveness, efficacy to be on the inside of the sidewalk. Right.

Wondering if Yeah. I think that's the same. Right? Like, I, in no way, need to demean their importance. I just like being on the same plane here.

So I was thinking the same thing. Is is there anything about... I was thinking the same thing as the mayor. Is there anything about it being less efficient if it's on the other side of the sidewalk? But on the other point of that, once you get to the other side of the sidewalk, then you have private property. So then you have to get permission then where the city owns the park strip. It it makes a lot I'm

sorry. You're talking about city signs. Right? Yeah.

And and and if we may... And if we made it so that they had to follow the same rules, it seems like it'd be quite time and cumbersome to go get permission to put these signs up if we didn't use what the city already owns. Right. But you you only use city owned properties, don't you? Do you use anybody's private... Yeah. For the most part, for city owned properties or...... Like all the other signs.

I I will say this. It seems like there's a lot of signs out there, but for a given, event or program, we would have about 20 signs max, but we put them strategically where people enter the city and when... Where there's high traffic, near schools and churches and intersections that get a lot of traffic. Same with banners. I think the most banners we have for a single event or program is three. So it it might seem like a lot, but the reality, if you look at the total acreage of Nibley, we... I mean, it's not like we're Las Vegas Strip. I'll say that. So to get the point, Garrett, in terms of time to put those out, getting permission from the property owner would be Just time It would not be feasible for us. Practical.

Right. And and so to continue the academic discussion, that's ironic that the city doesn't have to get permission to get signs from the adjacent property owner. But political signs, they have to get permission from the adjacent property owner. So we're we're we're still do as I say, not as I do. Even more so.

I've... Well, we lessen that, I think, in the enforcement that is complaint based and not show me your paperwork.

And I think this kinda goes back to Nathan's point. We... This this opens up a little bit of a can of worms. Like, we... We're... We opened this topic to deal with the political sign issue, and we're re... Recognizing there are some other things we need to address. I'm not sure that this vote is the time to do that, though. I think we might use our time more wisely opening some of these other topics at a separate meeting and on a separate agenda item.

Okay. So with your permission Mhmm. On the motion and the second, I get to do something procedurally to to say, may we interpret your motion to be not to continue, but to refer to committee? You said to post... To to to to Yes, sir. Continue to give the Planning commission. Planning commission chance. I think that if the planning commission has looked at this, we should specifically tell the planning commission we want you to look at it again. If you don't like that that motion, that's fine.

I will be honest that my motion was also to buy us more time because we have expanded what this is. So I think we've... We can refer to committee share, but we should not stop looking at it ourselves and think of things we want fixed and changed. But during... In this same No. No. No. Okay.

Separate. Okay.

So the continuance was until they have a chance to look at it, which gives us at least a week. I don't think they're gonna put that on their agenda next week, but they could. Or if you wanna make a committee that's not planning commission, that No. I... I'm not interested. Okay. That's what I kind of heard you say it first, but then I was like, No. I just... There is a motion to refer to committee, and you can name the committee Oh.

In the motion.

Yeah. I think I'll open my Robert's rules. Well

well, would it would it be more practical just to approve this tonight to become compliant with what the state is and then readdress this?

That's the question. I mean, what's the urgency? When... Do we have a date that I mean, we have midterms coming up. We have midterm elections, but I'm not sure that there's gonna be... Well, there are I've seen them. There are there are county elections

that someone could put a county side in. They... I've already seen them in our park strips, and they're not being enforced. So I think we're okay as long as we don't enforce anything on political sides.

So I don't think we have to. That's why I was just wondering if we ought to just, you know, approve it as it is, and then we'll revisit this when we wanna take a little more time to dissect just so we're compliant. But I didn't know. I don't... There's not a timeline, then I guess we... It's fine.

Yeah. You can change my motion to referring to committee if Okay. You feel better. Bill,

who seconded that? Actually

No. The amendment, I didn't second. The substitution. Or the substitution.

Substitution is second. Yeah. They're second.

Let me let me be more precise. I get to make motions. I'm gonna propose a substitute to the substitute. This is our third. So thank you. Good. So so that means we throw away everything else and just say refer to committee instead of refer to committee, and we can look at stuff. That's fine. But refer to planning commission as a committee instead of to continue. So that's my motion. Second from you, that's the motion we're talking about now. It's no big deal. So can you... Sorry. What does it mean? What do you mean refer to committee? What is it? It means that it's not coming back until the committee tells us what they want.

What... That means voting on it today then? We would be voting to Send it. Send it back. I understand. Okay. Right?

Which is the same as... Almost the same as a vote to to not vote Yeah. Or continue. It's just that it's more specific to tell the planning commission Fix the sign ordinance. We we want your opinion.

Right? Okay.

Like, Larry, you have a different look.

Maybe you'll get an agenda on your

Yeah. We didn't have enough on the agenda, so we're working on filling the time.

Nick? Just as a question of Claire, just for my own education. So with this committee discussion and decision before us, do we have to direct certain things of said committee that we want them to address specifically? Or can it just be ambiguous of, like, hey. We didn't feel like... We wanted to send it back to rereview because maybe you didn't think of the things that we were thinking of, or do we have to be specific about

questions we have or direction? I think the motion was to address the

question of city signage they have not addressed. Okay. I just wasn't wasn't sure if we had to, like, publicly state that as part of the motion.

Okay. I mean, it was part of the first motion I made, but now you're just referring to the candidate. Was referred to committee yesterday. I'm cool with that.

No. I Well No. I think we should... If we're gonna send it back to the planning commission, we should tell them why to address. So so my substitute motion was to just replace... Continue to refer to the planning commission committee K. And all the rest the same to address the stuff that was added after

about city science. I think there was other stuff added after, not just city science.

I'm waiting for that list. Have you told us?

I think that maybe I mean, I'm all ears. I wouldn't Well, some of it's good. I'm not saying it was a mistake, but, like, I think some of it was, like, removing the ability for a sexually oriented business to be on an EMD.

That's a hard opinion from the attorney. Right. But I think it came after

So we planning and zoning. Commission's opinion from the attorney. I was just saying there are other things that I... There's more of them, but I wouldn't know for sure because I did not read their minutes. But the city thing's fine. It'll start a

discussion. K.

I am... I mean, for staff, I would like to know if staff needs to do research on other items that you'd like addressed.

So you're asking for my list? Yeah.

Or if staff needs to research on them or if you just wanna bring them up council, that's fine. Yeah. I'll I'll bring up some of them and see how it goes. So

first off, generally, I think that we suggest writing this code categorizing signs less prescriptively. We have this section of definitions that goes into every type of what sign can be to then just refer to it later and what the prohibitions are. But as I read it, I thought there was kinda three categories, which was temporary, permanent, and then the electrical monitoring one. And so I think taking an approach of what kind of signs do... What types of signs need different types of permitting. Right? To me, it was permanent, temporary, and maybe the electrical, which could fall in the permanent. But... So that's just the general thought of how to approach it rather than a long list of definitions and then trying to enforce restrictions or allowances based on those definitions. I don't know if that made sense, but run with it. I think there are some economic development problems with some of our sign code. For example, we're pretty restrictive on home occupation signs, and we know that, currently, that's all Nibley City really has as far as economic development opportunities. Mhmm. And I think future economic development is very prohibited, and we will have to address this later if if we ever see larger commercial or other types of businesses. So thinking of that as we go through. And then there are just some kind of, interesting disagreements of things, like the code references that the electrical signs cannot be in... Or the electrical zones in residential zones, when they're allowed, should be turned off at certain times, and then our changes don't allow them in residential zones and only in institutional or commercial. I think it might have meant next to or near residential, but we we don't allow EMDs in residential, but then there's reference to code of when they should be turned off when they are in residential. So there's just little stuff like that that I think over time has made the code hard to read and enforce.

Simplify.

Yep. Just need simplified.

Mhmm. I like that.

How should we assist? How do you wanna address all this? You asked for the list. I just gave it to you. So are you specifying for planning to go back and address all these things? Well, the current motion is

just the city part. So I'm fine with them tackling that, and I'll see what I can do here. I don't... Whatever you guys feel. As I read it, this is what came to me.

Say, should we just approve it to be done, and then we'll revisit this? Yeah. I

Okay. Thank you, Pujols. No problem. I think if we do a major We should. Rewrite, we should do that before it goes to the blank. We should. So that would be an action item for Levi, but I'm not sure we're assigning that to him yet. Maybe Nathan and Levi need Maybe.

I'm okay with the current motion. I think that's fine.

Yeah. Alright. Other discussion on... I do appreciate the list, and I think you're making good points. Other discussion on the motion to refer to committee to deal with city owned signs in park strips? Okay. Those in favor to refer, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Nay. K. Aye. Garrett, would you vote? Yay. Okay. Four in favor, one opposed. Alrighty. I guess we'll just maintain the status quo until then. Use the code we have. K. Thank you for that. Let's talk about... What's next? Let's talk about Applications. Mhmm. Inactive applications. Attorney union So this is all new code. We do have an update on the attorney when we... From the attorney when we asked about standing.

So I'll let you talk about that. Yep. Thank you, mayor. So the the attorney weighed in and recommended that this new code would not apply to existing applications. And Levi and I kinda already had a bunch of conversation about that, and we... We're fine with that. We just fall back on what we were doing before. And the attorney also gave a little guidance on how to maybe solve some of those inactive applications. There's not that many of them, so we're we're we're fine with that interpretation moving forward with

that. Tom, do you have some? Okay. Just one application. Outstanding. Okay. Good. Thanks for that clarification, Nathan. Do you have a motion? Yep. Motion to approve twenty six twelve.

Four second reading.

Motion to approve, four second reading from Nate, a second from Nick. Thank you. Discussion?

I was surprised that the attorney didn't recommend putting in what would happen to Kern Active, but I think staff putting in the packet and publicly stating that we'll give them thirty days is fine with me. Yeah.

I missed the... What did you say in the very beginning? You're surprised that the attorney didn't address what? Didn't think we should address current applicant Oh, current. Okay. With this I couldn't quite hear you. Yeah. But

publicly saying and making a part of the record is fine. Yeah. I mean... So

Yeah. There's this sticky wicket of standing, you know, what what was disclosed at the time of application, what rules are we playing under. So... Okay. Any more discussion? Good. Any... Anyone opposed to voting? Cheryl, if you'd call the roll for us, please.

Council member Spalding, what is your vote? In favor. Council member Kentska?

In favor.

Council member Mansell? In favor. Council member Mann? In favor. Council member Lauerson? In favor. Thank you.

Five in favor and unopposed. Resolution passes. Thank you. This is what I need. One number We're gonna have a 14. Number 14. So city council directing discussion and consideration enter into a contract for Nibley 1200 West City Park. Oh, I'm sorry. We are on that. I thought we were... I'm I'm out of order. I mean, I'm not taking the proper order. We're on order. Definitely. Myself out of order. Tom, this is your show.

Can we have a quick break?

Any objection to a quick break? Few minutes. K. We'll take a break, Tom, while you while you get your stuff together. I have started turning the balls. Yeah. Yeah. But what we're doing now... Quick strike your Tom, tell us how we can help you. Hey. I appreciate that.

So we'd like to build another park. And recently, staff went out with a request for proposal. I'll refer to that as an RFP in the future here. And we advertise it in the newspaper just as we always do. And we... In in the RFP, we set a budget of $25,000 for three concept plans. And and the concept plans would take the city's master plan, and it will take some workshop items that I've collected notes on. And then it also referenced the USU landscape architects and environmental planning groups. They... They've done a whole bunch of of proposed concepts as well. So the the $25,000 would give enough money for them to go through all these documents and create three concepts, present them to the parks and rec committee, planning commission, and city council. Once once that concept plan is agreed upon by the the bodies, it will give another million dollars to design and construct what concept we have now. That may not be enough to build the entire concept. It might just be a phase of that that concept, but, that... That's what's currently in the budget is a million dollars for the design and the, construction of the park. So this park is located on 1200 West, and it's referred to as the 1200 West City Park, and it's rather large. It's got three individual components to it. There's the East Side of 1200 West, right about 3400 South. This, this is a property that's South of Hawk Hollow and North of Nibley Meadows. And it, and we refer to it a lot as the Nibley Meadows Park, but in our, our master plan, it's referred to as the 1200 West Park East. And this this is the area we're focusing on. There's two other areas in this 1200 West Park. It's the portion just to the west where there's the wetland. We're currently drilling a well and and all this area just east of, Nibley... Not Coach, Nibley Farms in that that general area. And then there's also the open space that separates Nibley Farms from that other subdivision just to the north. Zollinger? Pardon? Zollinger Acres. Thank you. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you. So we had a lot of interest in... So we received nine proposals. That... That's just a massive amount. And the the steering committee that's been on here, I'll I'll reference their names here. They just did a fantastic job of turning their reviews around, making comments, and and basically what you're seeing right here is the ranking. So high... Rank number one would be the highest in those four categories, and then they average out on the bottom on the average ranking. So one through nine would be in a perfect world. Everyone agreed on the one and and did... And agreed on the last ranking one, but that's not the case. It's just all over the place. And... But what we did was we refined it down to two of the top two. So Blue Line Design is one of the top two. They were actually second ranked. And then MGB plus a, or I'm I'm just gonna say MGBA, They were actually the top ranked. The monetary value of... Or their fee, they're separated by about $15,000, which is really small when you're looking at that. That's less than 10% or right around 10%. But what we found, and and I'll give Aaron credit for this, in the scope of work from MGBA, it it left out a little bit that BlueLine Design actually included in their scope of work, their proposed scope of work. So what what that... What would they... The difference was Blue Line Design had experts in skate park design, experts in... And with a whole bunch of of experience in water feature design, while the MGBA did not. So we we went back and forth, and the members that we... That were on this committee were me. Justin was on there. Aaron was on there, like I mentioned. Randy was on there. We had Rod Elwood with the parks, Chad Wright with rec, Levi Roberts with planning, and we had Kendall were... Welker with the parks and rec Advisory Committee. So it was a really big knowledgeable group. And we did our best just to try to make a decision, but we couldn't. So we're tasking the council to make that final decision and give the authorization to staff to negotiate a contract with whatever firm that the council is is, directed. So is... Do you want any specific information, or you have any other questions? I I put some stuff in... Each of... Every one of the proposals is in the packet. It's out of... It's a folder, like, 14 dash four or something. So all nine of them are in there. Oh, I might mention also... I forgot to mention two of the... It was so bad that we had to, like, just check that t's were crossed and i's were dotted, and we ended up disqualifying two of the proponents or the cons... Proposals. One is Prime. It's, their fee was way off and they didn't include a really detailed scope. So we didn't know where they were with that fee. Well, they broke down task number one, but then they just put lump sum and task two and three. So we disqualified them. And then methods, we disqualified them because they only did the first concept plan, and they didn't give us any pricing or fee for anything else. It it... It's a viable approach, both of them, but we we decided that we should get a a complete scope of work and try to get the best product that we... That's gonna serve the city. So

I must be way off. The the RFP said the budget was $25,000

For design. For concepts. Yes. And then design and construction of the park, there's a million dollars. So

But but BlueLine put in a proposal for a 146,000? That's correct. But that's not for the concept. That's for the full design. That's concepts and design. Yes. Concept and design. So they're all committed to a $25,000 budget for concept design.

Correct.

And are we awarding a contract for 25,000, or are we awarding a contract for a 146 or a 130?

I'd like to hire or or negotiate a contract for the entire scope of work to get the concepts, present them to the bodies, make decisions, and move right into design. So it's the The the one one forty five or the one Contract for the one one forty five, 146. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Okay. And it was a tough decision. They were all good. Yeah. They all had strengths. They all had slight weaknesses. It was just a matter of what was... What would be the best for the city. And and we got it down to two, which is a big feat. I was talking to Kendall. I wanted her to be here tonight. She's she's like, well, we already made a decision. I says, well, no. We didn't. She's like, well, we narrowed it down to two, didn't we? I'm like, okay.

So...

You know, a little bit hung up. Where does the extra $120,000

come from? It would come from the design and construction... Million dollar design and construction budget.

And the capital projects? Yes. The 25,000

is in There's two lines in the budget. Okay. One's $25,000 for concepts, and one is a million dollars for design and construction. Okay.

Okay.

Sorry if that wasn't clear either. But So we're not awarding a million dollar contract, but the council will decide on a 145 or a $130,000

contract tonight. That's what I'm hoping. Yes. K.

Thank you.

Can I maybe just give a little context about our commit? Our discussion?

So I'm Are we okay? Failing here. So

Yeah. In... We nailed it. We narrowed it down to these two. And then, like, there was no defining feature of of either of these where we're like, well, this really makes them stand out. Like, they both had these design features, I thought, or these different aspects that were great. Like, Rod would bring up well. MGBA has a horticulturist on staff, and BlueLine doesn't. And then Chad would be like, well, I've I've seen the stuff that BlueLine does, and they do really fantastic parks. And, like, everyone just kept bringing up, like, good points about both. And I was like, I don't feel like they're... I can justify and feel good about saying, I think we should go with this one because they have this one thing that really makes them stand out over the other. It was just like, I don't know. Let's let's put put the blame on all five of us instead. So it was my idea, actually, I think maybe to send it to us to decide because I was like, well, no one will... No one was speaking up about, I think, these are gonna be better and this is why and was, like, ready to defend that. So... Yeah.

Yeah. I have to admit, I don't know if I've ever... I mean, I haven't been on here forever, but in all the times, I can't think of a committee that didn't send a recommendation. No. I'm just one. But I I do have a couple of questions, if that's okay.

Yeah. And then Randy after that, if that's okay, Randy.

I had a couple of questions. One, you talked about having especially in skate park. Are we... Is there a thought of putting a skate park in that park?

So in the request for proposal, I I said that one of the concepts would be based on what's in the master plan currently, and and you'll find in the master plan that a skate park is slated for there. Okay. Not saying that that's what's gonna be built, but that was that was supposed to be one of the concepts had... Was to have... Supposed to kind of take that as a basis of a concept and build on it with the extra properties that we got from Hawk Hollow. Because at the time of the drafting of that master plan, we didn't have that extra couple acres north of there. So, anyway, circling back is just... That was supposed to be one of the elements. And Blue Line caught on to that. Several others did too, but, it seemed that MGBA missed that component of it. So k. My other question is,

in the conceptual design, is there a reason we're not including the West Side in this conceptual so that it it all is continuity there, and there's, you know, some fluidity or whatever word you wanna use in the two parks. Yeah. It is purely budget.

Because I feel like So I'm gonna confess here. I I actually advertised another RFP a month and a half earlier that had a $1,500,000 budget. Because in our workshops, that's what I had in my notes, is $1,500,000 budget. And I believe you made that proposal when we met with the planning commission and the Parson rec right here. So I I advertised it, and Justin told me that I was short $500,000 out of the budget. So I withdrew that request and then republished it, and I had to eliminate all that connectivity that you're referring to. That I... That that... In the original proposal, it had all three of the the different sections of the park in it, but with with reducing that budget that much, they're just

we wouldn't have any budget left. So... And to address that same point, I think, like, specifically, I know MGBA, I remember, said, like, we understand that this is gonna be a phased park, and we're gonna be conscious about that as we come up with our designs about how it will phase with the other sections. So some of them also have done homework about, okay. We understand that this is not a standalone. There's there's other sections. Other pieces because I feel like Yeah. Those all need to go together. I mean Yeah.

And I had a call from somebody on the West Side. It was just calling to complain, of course. But, they've lived here ten years and were told they need to park. And now we're doing a park, but it's on the East Side. And we're not doing anything for the existing residents on the West Side that were promised to park many years ago. So I can speak to that a little bit too. So through the development agreement with the Nibley Meadows development,

there were certain conditions that were placed on spending of their... The impact things that we select. So that's the reason that it's more focused on the West... Or, excuse me, the East Side there.

Okay. So

That's all I have.

East to west of 12th West or just east to west of Midland? No. East to west of 12th West. Randy?

I think I think the person was in Zollinger Acres. And maybe Aaron had a different experience than I did probably. But I I just found that as I was reading one proposal, I'd make my notes, put that down, go to the next one, and then go to the next one over days of time, they all kinda blend together. Yeah. And it gets a little confusing of of really the strength and weaknesses. And so if we're at the the blue line and the MG, I I like the blue line's approach of we listen, collaborate, and create. I I think they had a... They seem like they were... It was impressive to me. I thought I thought their parks pictures with their... What they've done in the past, I thought that... You know, I mean, you're showcasing who you are and what you've done. Not that they seem creative and unique. I thought that was a a a positive. Maybe they could bring some novel ideas. I liked, MGB. I liked their approach of an aggressive dateline. I thought that was... We're gonna do this and that and this this point of view. You know? I thought that was a... It seemed focused on results and getting things done. So I don't really know where we go through here. I mean, I think I agree that $15,000 is irrelevant if whichever one we think is the best one would you just go with. But, Erin, I don't know. Those two, which one did you like? You read this more than probably anybody here. It would

I did wanna ask, Tom, do... Does it make a difference to you or to staff on the the four months, five months difference between their timelines? Because MGBA wanted to... Had a suggested timeline of finishing in May and beginning construction at that point. Right? And then blue line was August.

Yeah. So I'm looking ahead to the next grant period, and we're... I don't think we're... I I think the best way to do this park is to leverage Nibley City's funds with the land and water conservation grant or a Utah outdoor recreation grant. So that grant cycle is toward the end of each year. Originally, I had a really aggressive schedule in that first request for proposal that they had to have everything done by December, at least enough that we can make application for these grants. After I withdrew that and and where we are today, my my, like, critical deadline would be September next year, really. We can't drag on much more than that if we're gonna try to get some grant money to build it. K. So I don't I don't I don't think it's really critical that that different time. And and May, with how much is is being asked, meeting with planning commission, meeting with the parks and rec advisory committee, meeting with this city council, I think that'd be a real stretch to really get it done by May, I'll be honest. Yeah.

Randy, to answer your question, I've I've pushed it from the committee meeting to today. So if I had to make a choice today, I think I would choose BlueLine. Okay. I... I'm with you.

I agree.

For for the rest of the group here, I don't know if you you do have history with BlueLine. I was gonna ask about that. Right? So they they designed Ridgeline Park that we're currently... Or Nibley City Center Park that's currently under construction. I'll I'll I'll save the update on that project till later, but there there was there were some errors in the cost estimating. And it it is frustrating, but it's also justifiable because when they were putting these cost estimates together, we were bidding and and getting grant applications and stuff like that. It was still in the volatile stage after the COVID escalations, and everything was just going up and down. So I I I really didn't hold them really that much accountable for those errors just because it was happening all over the construction industry. It wasn't just an isolated incident where, oh, man, they screwed up. It was like, I I couldn't get cost estimates right to save my soul. It was just... Everything was just so all over the place. So I I gave him a pass on that one. But when when we did bid, they they bid in such a way that contractors felt uncomfortable that they were taking on a lot of the risk of the construction. So that to me is is a little bigger bigger issue, but it also was trying to protect the city from change orders and cost changes and stuff. So they... He... They they tried to put all the risk on the contractor to save the city from change orders because it's just... They were trying to represent the city. Does that make sense? So there was some ambiguity or vagueness in some of the things that contractors didn't feel comfortable taking on that. They they felt they didn't have enough information to to give a good solid number. The only one that really submitted was DWA, and they came in, like I say, the cost estimates were way under when they originally did it. But DWA and us, we worked it out, and we got a contract together. So Yeah. The way one, we will have to watch if we go with BlueLine. So way I remember that is

BlueLine did the design, gave us an estimate on cost. And, yeah, COVID and inflation, all that was going on, gave us an inflation on cost. It must have been Tyler O'Brien that said, are you kidding me? That's ridiculous. It'll never cost that much money.

It cost twice. Yeah. And then

we put it out to bid. We said, well, you know, I know that's a lot of money, but we'll use their numbers anyway, put it out to bid. And, yeah, the estimates were wrong, but they were wrong way low Yes. Instead of wrong way high. So it's like a double whammied us.

That's correct. And so that that put a lot of burden on the staff, so we had to renegotiate with the Land and Water Conservation Grant stuff. And everything worked out, and and and everything's fine now that Do we have something staff is aware of. And if we move forward with BlueLine, we'll we'll make sure that we Do we have specific experience with MGBA? MGBA did a study for us. It was the general. No. Not the general plan. Open space. It was a parks and rec open space. Okay. General... Or master plan. So... Yes. Not the concept. Okay. And that would probably be why they... That... Was it you that felt that they did a really good job of identifying the needs of Nibley and and relating to the the needs of Nibley. That's that's probably the reason.

Well, when I went through the proposals, they also... A number of their projects were local here in Cache County instead of Wasatch Front. So I might have a better understanding of the local issues compared to... Because we're not the Wasatch Front. I don't wanna be in Wasatch Front.

Is there a motion?

I have a couple more questions before motion, if that's okay. Sure. In the RFP, both for those that were on the committee and Tom and city staff, bit references Kimberly's procurement policy, which I could not find Park designs. A public, like, document of that.

No. From my It's actually... Is it in our employee manual? But This? Yeah. And so

things.

Like, they're 17,000

It tells me that I have to... It's it's a public... So public works has different rules than most other divisions. So we have to publicly advertise bidding projects. So this was publicly advertised on a newspaper. It ran two times per week for two weeks, so I followed that. I... We put it on our website, and I actually emailed it to at least three Yeah. Qualified firms. And in reality, I think I emailed it out to 12 or 15. But I... That's the procurement policy that I was referring to. So they they would have to plan enough time in bidding and things that we could advertise appropriately and and get competitive bids for everything.

Is it that?

Oh, it's in code.

We can make it bigger so we can see it.

Yeah. I believe the personnel policy is just a couple of them. Oh, yeah. Makes sense.

Okay.

Do you have more? Nope. Okay. I think that'll come up in discussion.

Amy keeps me on task

too. So

And is did we follow it? I believe I had That's not that.

We did.

When I was reading both of these proposals in the packet and stuff, and you guys have kind of alluded to that already, is what Blue Line's offering with the skate park and different things worth $15,000.

If if we decide to go with the skate park and everything else, it would be a change order for MGBA to do it. I don't know what that would be. It wasn't to that level of detail.

Yeah. So that's that's kind of the crux where we stopped when we were debating is if we had to do a change order, would that make it the same fee? And if they were the same fee, which one would we pick then? I mean, personally, I will not be voting for a splash pad if one is offered. But a skate park, maybe yes. Yeah. That's... I don't say that I represent the general consensus. That's just my own personal opinion. But

Lot of requests for a splash I know.

But they don't make sense financially.

Mhmm.

Probably get into that with the design of this. Appreciate the thoughts. Hire them in prod. Yeah. I don't think the 15,000 should be the decider. I think the... Who you think will do the best job. And if they both look like they'll do a great job, then you flip a coin. I know they don't wanna hear that, but if if you can't decide because they're both really good, they're probably both really good, and just go with one.

Nathan? I'll give you a motion to allow city staff to enter the contract with MGBA for the design phase of Nibley's 12th West City Park for phase one.

Motion from Nathan. Second from Garrett to award MGBA the design phase contract. K. Discussion? Now that's a little different than the way Aaron and Randy were headed, I thought, but that's why we're... I appreciate the motion. We can talk about it.

Do you wanna share why you... What pushed you in that direction?

I feel like we handicapped people submitting for this RFP, which is why I asked about the policy. As I read the RFP document, the... It references specifically, like, you will look at our parks and rec plan. You will do these things. You will... It it outlines the scope of work pretty well. I don't know. I've been on some of these, and I know it's so hard, and I've never had to deal with nine. I guess, seven.

Yeah.

So I appreciate what the community did, but I I think we might need to look at how we do our our judging and and base it more on the RFP specifics, like, line by line rather than kind of a grouped approach to avoid some of this difficulty, to be honest with you. But that's beside the point. The reason I I picked MGBA is they are very familiar with their plan, and that's what we asked in the RFP. So I think they met that better than others.

Yeah.

And I agree Blue Line's work is gorgeous, but we don't have 16 or $22,000,000. Like, in my experience, like, looking at the references and the things that they've done, and I didn't love what happened with the other park specifically. It's not necessarily why I would say no. I just... There's a problem I think we need to reflect on is should it be a policy to limit design concepts to the actual budget we have for the park? And that's difficult when we don't know what the budget for the park is. And and this one is a phased approach, and so continuity is a problem. So I... It's hard, I think, to be on these committees and make these choices, and it's getting only harder.

It was difficult to really prepare the RFP because with the limited budget, I mean... And and and it was actually expressed by one... Either methods or prime that they had concerns that the city didn't have enough money budgeted to build a park. So Yeah. And that's... I think that was the reason that they didn't really go all out on their cost estimates or fee or fee estimates.

And that's kinda what I mean by handicapping. We're asking for this, but we... We're paying people to do stuff that we don't know we'll ever be able to pull off. Yeah.

So I'm just picking one. I'm gonna ask a stupid question, and forgive me if I should know this, but I feel like I should just ask it because I don't know. Maybe I just need to get educated on when we start projects like this, and I keep... We've said it a couple times of, like, we're asking people to do something we don't even know what the budget is. Why do we not, within a reasonable amount, know what the budget is on what we wanna spend on a park upfront?

So I'll I'll chime in there a minute when the fees aren't going on with the And if you recall, the discussion we had in here with the joint meeting, that was kind of the crux of the discussion. Yeah. And it was back and forth. It was back and forth. And I think I'm the one that finally said, look. Just do $25,000 concepts design. We'll pick a park. And for now, we'll budget a million dollars to get started. Right. I remember that. Needs to change, and, obviously, these things don't happen overnight. And if we need to amend that budget or if we need to add money to it next budget, we can do that. And so I think it really comes down to us and guiding them as they come up with these concepts. I think we probably will need to say, hey. This is a ten year park, four phases, roughly this many million when we're done. I mean, we're gonna... I think we're gonna have to give some of that guidance, and it feels maybe like the budget is... But that wasn't intended to be a lid or a cap. It was to get the ball rolling from my perspective.

I do remember that conversation. I just wonder, like, just as a general procedure from how we operate or any city like this, just basically making that decision up front of, like, we're... This is a no cross zone. Do do these kind of conversations... I mean, I'm assuming they happen is, like, we're not gonna spend more than x amount on this park. We can't. Right? I mean, do we have these kinda conversations just about these things in general? Go ahead. I'm gonna ask some questions because I don't know. No. No. Yeah. This is a great great conversation.

We have master plans, and these master plans show what Yeah. It's gonna be... Go to that park. Yep. But it sounds like there's not enough support to build what's shown on that master plan, so we're gonna have to start, basically, as a basis, use the master plan, and then build from there. Mhmm. And what that budget is, we don't. So if we refer back to the master plan on the 1200 West East Park, I'm I'm sure there's a budget number in there. I don't think that we budgeted enough for it. But this million dollars for design and construction and $25,000 for concepts is just what Justin said. It's get the ball rolling, start looking for other leveraged monies, and and go forward. So

Yeah. I have a question, though. How do we not know when the budget is? Because this park is being built out of park impact fees from Nibley Hollow or Hawk Hollow, sorry, and Nibley Meadows. And we know exactly how many units we have. That could be a way to do it. Yeah. Uh-huh. To me, that's like... We know... At least you know what that budget is. You got $9,000 times, what was it, 400 and... Or no. 3... It was 3 something. Right? Because we amended their

part. That is potentially a way to do it for sure. But there's other building going on at the same time. So are you gonna limit it to just that? Yeah. But isn't... Aren't those impact fees supposed to be used for this park as part of the I think the specifics were half. There was some guidance on how much think that those impact fees were ever supposed to pay for the entire park. Okay.

Why? Recollection. We'd have to read the development agreement. But Yeah. Okay. I It was a contribution of impact fees that would do this much and this much.

In certain districts. Yeah. Even if it was half. I mean, that gives you a good number. Way. You just don't know how long it'll take for it to all get built out to actually collect the money. That's the hard part.

Yeah. And I wanna speak to... I mean, of all the projects we do, these are the most difficult ones. And then the experience that I've had here both with Firefly Park and now with Ridgeline Park, we've gone through this process. We've gone through this big planning. We've got committees, and we've got Parks and Recs is weighing in, and they're doing all these things. And in the end, it's me and Tom sitting around a desk going, can't afford that. Can't afford that. Can't afford that. Yeah. And then everyone's like, well, how come we didn't build that park? There wasn't the money. Show me the money. And so I I think it's a great discussion that we need to have with this contractor, whoever is picked is like, look. Here's the target. You cannot miss this by two and a half times the estimate.

It's it's tough. Parks are tough. Yeah. Alright. Yeah. And we've been on a Even on road, say, for a cog project, you you get a whole bunch of engineering done. Spend money on engineers to figure out what it's gonna cost to do the project. So, yeah, you have to start spending money to figure out how much money you're gonna have to spend. And then when it's all all said and done, you you at least know what the cross section looks like, the length of the road, the width of the road, and all those things. And, I mean, we're talking about, at this point, not knowing if this park has a splash pad or doesn't have a splash pad. So we don't eve... We don't we don't know where we're headed. And I think what Justin is pointing out is the committee work and the and the parks and rec planning work... Parks master plan work, they're just not con... Constrained well enough... Financially constrained well enough because we all know what we want, but we don't know how to pay for it. Nathan, I'm sorry. You paid it. You're fine.

I didn't necessarily want this to turn into a how do we do our RFP conversation, but I think whether it's now or later, that needs talked about. Because, like, our open space plan, like you referenced, just for numbers for you guys, it's critical that we read our master plans. And when we vote on them, we are okay with things. That's what I've learned up here. Right? It's because that's what's supposed to guide us, and just ignoring them is a waste of money and time. So the maintenance costs of all the proposed parks, like, in the in the in the plan, like, just the maintenance for what was, like, suggested in that plan for Ander is more than this park is budgeted for. So the maintenance alone for, like, Ander Park and what's suggested is more than a million dollars. Right? And so, yeah, I've been through a lot of RFPs for, like, Utah State, and the way that we approach those, although tedious, has actually worked really well in that... Like I said, it's it's a line item vote where, like, you draw the scope of work and you rank how they're doing on that scope of work specifically. And then no cost is allowed to be seen, so you're picking based on merits of the proposal, and then cost comes in. And anyone similar to how we eliminated too because they didn't meet the scope of work, anyone not within the budget of the project, like, doesn't... They can't apply. Right? So I think there's some things we could do to to to try to get this under, but I understand it's a moving target all the time. Right? But I I think that there's some things we could look at as far as our RFP process. Because if we're gonna keep getting nine, which is marvelous for projects like this, we need to be smart about who we're picking and make it easier on the committee. I know it felt like it was a very difficult process for you guys on this one, which is why we're talking about it. Right? And I don't think that that's gonna get any easier for all kinds of projects. And in the end, you guys just say, we don't have the budget, so we're gonna build this thing. Yeah.

Yeah. So I I tried exactly what you said Did you? And hid the fee. No one liked it because they wanted to know how much more are we getting for this or lack of this versus this. I I tried that. And and the way, you're describing your scoring system like that, we did base our our reviews on four categories. It was the approach and methodology. We ranked them one through nine. We're supposed to. Approach and methodology, the project team, the strengths, weaknesses, project experience, and fee. So I guess there's five items. One, two, three, five. So we... Not to your level of each line item, but Oh, it's tedious. It it was... It it very much is tedious. So if I if I may, I think the way to make it easier on staff and bidding is if if I was confident that you wanted what's in the master plan, I could bid that today. Everyone knows they're bidding on the exact same thing. We know what's going on, and it would be super easy. But it... That hasn't been the case. Yeah. So... Right. Yeah.

The plan is a recommending document. Mhmm. Right. But if you tell me, Tom,

go bid this project that's in the master plan. I can do that today, and we'd have really good numbers. And we... And they'd... It'd be a lot more... A lot easier to really compare apples to apples. But with the ambiguity of concepts, no one knows where they're really gonna go, what what we're gonna finalize. It makes it more challenging, and and writing the RFP was challenging. Yeah. Trying to balance the other phases across the 1200 West. Even trying to phase this phase is just really challenging to try to get the right language in there. So But we gotta get started. Yeah. I appreciate you. You recognizing that. So... Yeah.

I have a question. Working on what Nathan's proposed there, but I'm... I am curious, Justin and Tom, what what... What's your gut impression of which one you'd pick? I mean, you're gonna have to work with them extensively. And and so, I mean, I... It's not that we would vote that way. I just... Are you gonna... I mean

So So so I've worked with one, two, three, four of those firms in there. I'd feel comfortable working with any of them. I I I really want this to be a sit... A council decision. So I don't think you'll go wrong with either of them. No.

Good one, Thomas. My

my only 2¢ is that I don't feel like Blue Line blew it out of the water on Ridgeline Park. They did okay. It was a tough environment. Some road things happened, but I don't think they got an a on that project. I think the process of the parks and rec master plan,

I think they did a decent job.

So I would put them just a hair above.

It's the m g a. MGBA.

Yeah. And I'm gonna go against what he said on they did a good job. They fell apart. Their whole their whole team ended up going different direction. We in... We inherited new team members midway through. They had a hard time finishing that. It took months past due. I don't know.

They they both have weekdays. This was why we got an ex.

Why I'm asking?

So who's number three? No. No. And we're only looking at these two. Oh, by

with four, so you have four to eight. I mean, the next four weeks out good. Let's head... Let's hear what the council wants to do. For number three, so don't go there..

How's that? Bio West and Landmark are number three. So they're automatically eliminated. You got a five. Is that

So we have a proposal So we have a motion. Yep. And we could take an amendment or a substitute motion, or we can...

If you're ready, let's Well, that's make a decision and vote on the motion. I mean, that's good insight from Tom, and they fell apart. That's not... That's problematic.

They lost staffing is what happened. I'm like can't tell. It doesn't mean that They wouldn't lost his wife. Wouldn't mean that they will or won't hold on to their staff just like anybody else, but they did Blue's staff. Okay. Erin. In terms of timeline, Tom, as if you went

either to BlueLine or to MGBA and said, hey. We're... This is our budget cycle. This is our grand cycle, and work with them in terms of, like, they would change their their schedule, do you think? Like, you schedule. If you thought MGBA was rushing it too much and you said, we will not meet this. We need to be more realistic.

It'll just work out that way. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know that I'd ask them to try to to change it. Mhmm. But I I just... Knowing the full scope, I don't know that it was a realistic scan that I gave us. Yep. Yeah.

You can stall for time and slow it down. It's harder to speed it

up. I think the process will

stall it. Process itself. There'll be some new ladies' tresses or something. No. No. Call.

No. No. No. Too much groundwater.

We know there's groundwater. And we used to have our own up out there. It's kinda strange.

Right.

Y'all ready to vote? Yeah. Any opposition to voting? Okay. The the motion is to grant this to m g b m g b plus a. Plus a. So let's... We don't need... This isn't a resolution. Let's just wing it. Those in favor of the motion to approve m g b plus a, please say aye. Aye. Those opposed? Cheryl, will you call the roll? No. I'm I'm fine. The motion passes five in favor, none opposed.

In the full amount of the con... That's a 130,000. Yeah. Thank you. Yep.

K. Thank you, Tom. Appreciate it, counsel. Let's bang out the lease of city owned properties. So Berg No one I see Mike is here. Thanks. You're probably thinking about a property. Mister Richards was here. There's that property to consider. Justin, I'm gonna let you... I think I think I know what you're interested in in this discussion, but I'll let you request it.

Yeah. So this is in direct response to a number of people reaching out to the city and requesting to lease or use city owned property. And we have done this in the past. We have a few farm fields throughout the city where we have allowed residents to lease the property and use the property and paid a a a fee for that to be able to do so. This is a little unique, and so this is certainly one thing I'll want your guidance on is that, typically, when this happens, we select a piece of property and we put any constraints on the property that we're interested in, and then we open it to the public for people to bid and provide a proposal on what they would like to do for... With the property and how much they'd be willing to pay. So that's typically what happens. We obviously made an exception with Morgan Farm leasing their Hollow Road property directly to them. But everything else has always been, hey. Here's a piece of property the city owns. Is anybody interested in farming or doing something on it? That's been the procedure in the past. The proposals that have been given to us or requested of us... And let me also say, I I did talk to Rod and asked him, is there any other parcels that we wanna add to this list or talk about? And he didn't feel that there were any really candidates... Strong candidates to to do this leasing idea on. And so the three I wanted to get your head nod or direction on tonight would be this piece of property right here. Now I can give you an update maybe during staff report about the trail along here and the properties along here, but this is directly adjacent to that. Let me just turn these labels off so we can see a little better. So it's it's this piece of property here. You can see on the north end, there's a sidewalk that goes out to 1100 West here. And in the intersection in this area that goes out to 10th West and also goes south along here, Chad uses this route for a few of his five k and fun runs and some things like that. But there is this area here, and just to be, like, super clear, I'm gonna highlight it. And let me also apologize. The lack of information, the agenda, report, I just was not able to get to it before I went to Phoenix last week. But we were thinking something like this area being able to allow someone to lease that to use for, you know, while the likely would be agricultural purposes. Some of the issues with that are direct access. It would be difficult to access this. I guess if we could maybe use something here, but the the well kinda makes it complicated to be able to use this property or piece of property down along here. So likely, it would have to be one of the residents that live along this road, and the direct... The access would have to come directly out their backyard somehow, someway. And what that access is, you know, if it's horses, is it a horse trailer? Is it a tractor? You know, let's... That's kinda up to them to be able to provide that access into that piece of property. So that's the first one. And, again, you heard the gentleman that was here tonight. He's interested in putting some horses on this property.

Is he interested in the entire piece or just

stuff behind his backyard? I think he's in the whole piece the whole piece that I've highlighted here. Okay.

Piece. I'm... I personally am not interested and would not recommend that we lease, you know, each individual house like the property behind similar to what's happened here. I just don't think that's a good use of the property. I don't wanna end up in the same situation in the future. You know, this piece is oddly shaped, but it is sizable. I mean, we could do something back there someday,

maybe. Are you are you highlighting?

Two and a quarter ish. Thank you.

So if someone were to, for example, put livestock or farm it,

what's the water situation? How would they get water to some place to live? Great question. That would have to come from their residence because there is no water in this area. So they would have to provide

water from their Again, a point in favor of leasing it to someone who lives Yeah. There.

Well... And if they did animals, would they not have to be required to put up fencing?

Yeah. Yeah. What? Fence along the canal. There's a canal here. If I maybe zoom in, you could see.

I mean, that can follow the sidewalk. Right?

Yeah. There's a canal here, so we would envision fencing on the west side of the canal. K. Yeah. There is... I I... You know, I guess that is a canal. We do have water rights. I guess maybe we could negotiate. Are we... Excuse me. We own shares in that company. We may be able to use some of those shares, but they would have to put in a pump and

be able to use it that way. So So can I ask you a question on that? What do we currently do with that property now? It is basically just mowed three times a year,

and the weeds kept down on it. It's... Was intended to be a low maintenance, not a lot of effort area for now.

I think it's used, Rod has said, as

a bike pump track. Unofficial? Yeah. Maybe some of the kids are using it, but nothing officially from the city. We haven't planned anything or done anything in that area.

This doesn't seem like a great idea unless you'd have water rights because taking your own... Just your basic house water to maintain that amount of acreage with horses just seems unrealistic unless he has additional water,

I would think. Yeah. That's a great question. And what is it? Is it for dust? Is it to keep the, you know, the grass alive, like... Or is it just a water? You know, certainly, we would require this because it is in a residential area. We would require no questions that they would meet the current animal land use code, so that might limit the number of horses. I haven't done the math on that. Didn't know how many that would be, but those those are great points. I think. And it it is a highly residential area. Right? It's not like it's on the outskirts. They're surrounded by residential homes.

Justin, were there other properties you wanted to talk about real quick that I well, that one

and the other similar issue is the Shadowbrook Park, which is on 800 West across the street from Morgan Farm. There was a resident that was interested, and you all saw a proposal from her on... Trying to find it while I talk. This area here and turning that into horse Yeah. Area as well. She had some ideas for rehabilitation center type things that were in that proposal. But, again, that was... But that would be leasing to a specific entity instead of putting out an RFP. So I guess that's a big question for you all. It's like, I I think if we had a direction there, maybe we could... Do you want this to be, like, an open RFP process, or is it... Do you want to just allow certain people to make a pitch and release directly to them? Kind of a philosophical question. So with the RFP,

what does that look like? Does that look like you look... Going through the RFPs and bringing us... Bring them to us, or we decide? Or who Typically... Fix the winning RFP? Typically, it's because it's never been just super agricultural.

Here's a farm field. We wrote a lease that says if you put any fencing or you do any improvements, those become ours. Thank you very much. Mhmm. And you pay... And for that right to use that property, they pay us this much, and we've just taken the highest bid Okay. In the past. Staff has done that. Yeah. Staff's just done it. The areas we have leased out in the past are the one on the Hollow Road was leased to a different individual before Morgan Farm. We also leased some of this property along 12th West right here in this area before the road was constructed. And to be honest, I don't even... I... I'm not a 100% sure if that lease is actually in play at the moment.

But also on 640

South Of The Well. Right? Yep. So South Of The Well is what I wanna speak to tonight that the reason Mike is interested and he's here. But this whole area here was leased out... Well, excuse me. It wasn't really leased. It was part of the purchase agreement when that land was purchased that the the existing landowner would continue to farm that until the city wanted to do something else with it. So they have farmed it for the twenty five plus years that the city has owned the property. They farmed it. They have had some changes in the family and are ready to... They... He called me last week, in fact, and said, look. They're off. They're basically done with the property. And so he kinda... He knew it was a little late in the year. So, you know, depending on who leased it, what they could do with it, if he's... He kinda threw it out there. He's like, if he needed us or wanted us to do it for one more year just to keep him going fallow, we could talk about that. But as far as they're concerned, they're ready to be off. So those are the three that I really wanted direction from you all tonight on.

And and we're not aware of anything special about state code that tells us how we can do this. Correct. I probably

should have double checked that, but I forgot and didn't. That's a good question. But as far as I know, I don't know that we're required to do that. I think if we start with the easy one, at least in my opinion, the 800 West Shadowbrook thing, I just don't think we wanna take that little pocket park and turn that into a horse pasture.

I think it... The suggestion was an indoor arena in the letter, wasn't it?

I didn't get that one.

Yeah. We all... It was an email. Yeah. It was. And I'm pretty sure she suggested building a indoor arena, horse rehabilitation and youth something. But but there was... I just remember there was infrastructure that wanted to be built there. Can you keep talking and give me, like, twenty seconds? Sure. Yeah.

I don't know. It's got a joke. Keep going.

Okay. I think He he lives adjacent to the property also. She's the next she's... I think maybe that neighbor. I think that proponent is more interested in a purchase than they are at least Please suggest a purchase. For all of

the upgrades and infrastructure they're talking about building. Mhmm. It's not a it's not a lease that they want. Yeah. And and, you know, frankly, her use is very different than... This is neither good nor bad, but it's very different from what has already been built there Out there. By the citizens.

And that... That's the only question I have is they've... In in both cases for this and the Nibley Gardens area, they're talking about big animals. And so there's gotta be some fencing requirements and different things because that could be... Come a nuisance to the neighbors. You know, they're getting over their fence and eating their apples or doing something. But, I mean, I know I know people like horses, and I'd love to see more rural stuff like that. But on this one specifically, one of the concerns I had is if they did become all horses, does that create a lot of dust for the existing neighbors that haven't had to deal with that before? And that becomes a nuisance.

So why don't we... Now that we know the three that we're going to talk about, let's try to focus on one.

You okay with that? Or did... I thought Justin wanted direction about the process in general. Yeah. We can do that. Alright. Tell us what you would like, Justin, out of this conversation. But if but if you don't wanna lease property, you don't need to talk about the process. Do you wanna talk about specific properties, or do you wanna talk about the process in general, how you want... How you... We'd like to

I think they're each individual enough. I think you should tell me on each parcel if you want to lease it or not lease it. Okay. Do you want to lease it? Do you wanna send it out to an RFP, or you just wanna pick somebody?

And are you interested in all if we're willing to sell?

Well, the council decides that. And I was saying, like, do you want us to even broach that discussion? Well, there is, for my memory, very clear guidance there on Yeah. If it is, you... I think the tech Abandoned. No. It says if it's usable land, which we have interpreted in the... Or interpreted in the past as a buildable lot, that there are requirements that does have to go out to a public process of public notification

and the the the the the the. So are any of these buildable lots?

That one looks like two to me. Just that one? Yeah. 640 probably is it? 640 for sure in the future, but not immediately. Nibley Gardens, not so much? Not so much Nibley Gardens. I think that, you know, part of open space requirement for the subdivision. First,

it's... It seems to make the most sense to me to... I mean, if there's multiple homeowners there that are interested in leasing the entire thing, maybe accept their their bids, but I don't think it makes sense to lease it to anybody except somebody who lives there. And we already have one letter from somebody who's interested and and has given us a proposal or maybe a rough proposal. I don't know. So It is only fair to give that... Everybody on there to know that's an option for them. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that... I think mister Richland's even mentioned, you know, letting his neighbors know as well so that they didn't feel like he was, you know, taking the land without anybody else having had a chance. But maybe if all those neighbors whose backyards touched the property, we're we're notified and say, we're we're gonna put this out to... For lease, and if you're interested in putting in a bid.

Yeah. Okay.

I'd be willing to consider selling that land. Yeah.

Selling it?

What's what's the side note. Yeah. Same. What's the con... What is just the theoretical con on just selling? We just have the land anymore. Yeah. And is that a problem?

Well, we're to nothing with right now anyway. Right. It's just

We have a right away with the sidewalk. So On the other side of the canal? On the other side of the canal.

I'm I'm quickly looking at... And I don't think... I appreciate knowing you'd be willing to settle it. I'm just on our agenda tonight. Oh,

that that is all of them.

See city owned land sale requirements in Utah to include that it has to be a buildable lot. It does have to be sold with zoning and access that complies with the municipal land use. So this would only be able to... And it has to be declared surplus. There has to be a public hearing. It has to be sold at fair market value, competitive sealed bids, or proposals. That's on the sale of land.

But I agree with everything Aaron said towards leasing it.

Okay.

As long as everyone has a fair shake at it. Yep.

All my adjacent landowners.

I I don't even know if it's, like, a a fair shake bid, but just, like, a note... I guess a bid is better. Yeah. You're right. Okay.

Okay. Okay. We can make that happen.

Do you know how to know we're interested in leasing or selling?

Leasing. And do we specify leasing it as one parcel? Like, leasing the entire thing? All in a You know what? Somebody was saying, I will lease my section right behind my house. Right? Because we've kind of said that we don't... That's a good idea.

And I'm It's a good clarification. I reviewed my text with mister Richards. It didn't indicate to me, but But if he told you different, that didn't indicate to me he wanted to lease the whole thing. That's That was the impression I understood from him. That's fine. The council wants to lease the whole thing then put it out for the whole thing. Yeah. He recognized that

there's some citizens and youth and stuff that like to play around that tree and, like, having horse stuff to the side of these houses down here doesn't really help him. So I think where you've got the line drawn is a little further south than his proposal, but the general idea is Okay. Because because if we say all of it, that includes that strip. Yeah. We're not doing the whole lot. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Can I ask one question on that then? So, Justin, would would would we be fine leasing that property

to mister Richardson or anybody else if they didn't get any extra additional water rights? I mean, I... I'm afraid that would... If if it put animals on there, it would turn into a kind of a dusty mess for their... All the residents. And so I I think I'm good with the leasing provided that we can provide him access to make it a a nice environment for everybody.

Manny, you raise a good point. I mean, not everyone thinks horses make good neighbors no matter how much water they have, right, no matter how much water is on the land. Right. So considering the impact of city land on neighbors, not much impact right now, but that would... That additional use. But

When... So when we go through a process like this and it's... Let's say, it's a lease, does it go through any formal public hearing, you know, allows neighbors to come tell us this is a dumb idea, you know, whatever? Or is it just we have a process and this is what we do? I mean, you can do that,

but I think you probably ought to

specify in terms... In the terms of the lease what the requirements are. And then we... Let's say we grant a lease. Do we, like, notify any resident within a certain amount of distance, or is it just A requirement.

Okay. We have to discuss the granting of the signing and leasing here. Yeah?

Yeah. Yeah. I think the council The agreement itself is The council has to Unless we give you a template or something, but every... Everything we've...

I've been a part of, we've done it in in a public meeting. Right. Like Oh, there's That's I don't know if that was required or not or if you're just doing it for fundsies or if you did the support. I'm

thinking of, like, that 12th West one. Thinking of the Hollow Road one before Morgan Farm. I don't think that was ever brought to council. That was a non one that happened.

Okay. That's good to know. So if we say go ahead and maybe bid and lease, you'd probably want some definitions like what he's talking about today.

That would be useful.

Well, there are animal land use ordinances. There are nuisance ordinances. I think the the lease agreement will say you'll follow those and you don't get exceptions to those.

Does that make you feel better? Or Oh, yeah. I just think that if you don't if you don't water something, it turns into dust, and I I think it can turn into a nuisance.

And, yes, I'm tromping on it all the time because right now, we just mow it three times a year. It's a dust... It'll be turned into a dust bowl if you don't water something there.

If I look grass for the, you know, for the animals to keep down and give them something to do, there's gotta be... Otherwise, it just turns into dust. And so I think that it... It'd be very annoying with any breeze.

Does this have any irrigation on it at this point at all? So it's just wooded. Yeah.

I

mean, Randy, you And I would have to... I mean, it it gets a little messy because, yes, we do own water shares in this company, but 256 of them are designated as replacement water for the 12th West well and the new well we're drilling now. So I'd have to do a review of what rights we actually... Or excuse me, shares that we currently have and probably have to work something out with the Canal Company to move those shares wherever they are to that spot because that spot shares are gone. Like, they're... Yeah. It would take some paperwork and some discussion with the canal company to make that happen. Is that Not saying it couldn't happen, but it would take some discussion. I believe blacksmith works. College Ward.

Sounds good.

Yeah. My my suggestion would be a lease on this property would be restricted to agricultural use and would be subject to all

land use and nuisance ordinances. That... That's the language that goes in there. Okay. Yeah. I think you can enforce the animal land use more easily than you can enforce the nuisance. Horse. We can count horses either than we than we can We can measure property and count horses. Yeah. Right. But when you say agricultural use, you mean with the zoning The zone. That is not agricultural

on that property? Correct. That would be... Because it's currently residential or accent. It's park. Yeah. But

Well, whatever it is. Oh, park. Gotta be careful about that. I'm not sure we have any animal rights on park space. Yeah. So I'm suggesting agricultural. It's also why I asked agricultural is a lot more intensive than residential. It's also why I asked about selling.

But, yeah, there's a lot to... Yeah. There are two, a, I believe. I had a conversation about this with him

in my email. We'll look it up. And and so, I mean, one one of the things to think about, if you're gonna impact the neighbors, maybe it's okay to do that with a one year lease. But on the other hand, you're asking somebody to put in a lot of fence Yes. And a lot of irrigation to make it anything but a dust bowl. Yeah. So then you want more than a one year lease. It

Looks like it's zoned r two.

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Then leave it at that on a... On agricultural.

Yeah. I'd have to look at that. I don't remember well enough even how many horses that is or

Where we have to be? And then there was a companion horse was a half point. So I think he could do six horses. Yeah. It's it's up to that many.

Including

meth. That'll make a lot of dust. Yep.

And some noise.

Yeah. But we are. People wanna do more.

That we took off. Oh, is this That's not we took those references out of the general plan.

Yeah.. Or is this or is this a spot that... Does Morgan Farm just need more pasture for stuff? Do you just let Morgan Farm take all the open space that they don't want?

How does Morgan Farm solve the issues we're worried about for the landlords anymore than mister Richards?

That's I mean, I remember years ago, I looked at the space and said, why don't we just give that to the farm too? We never did. But they don't have access. Yeah. Access is tough. So that's a problem. I think we should sell this.

Just sell it. This one's hard. Ricky.

You can get water to it. No water. Right.

Is it okay for us to restrict a bid to just adjacent?

You put any terms you want in the lake.

I'm thinking about that. I would not restrict it to them. I would just say that access would have to be booked out

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Unless one of these guys had a friend. Yeah. He was like, sure. Go ahead and rent that and build some.

Yeah. Put that one just at price.

Well, that was just playing into the... If it's the whole lot. Essentially, I built it. But you... Like you said, that that pump station thingies. And our bike area is definitely in the way. So

Gotcha.

So when I get to these things of working out the details, sometimes it helps me to back up and say, what am I trying to achieve? Right? Are we... I'm trying to make Nibley rural. Is that a goal? Are we trying to satisfy one landowner that lives there? Is that what we're trying to achieve? Are we... What what are... What's our mission statement on the lease that we might write? What... What's the, you know, what's the goal?

I think the goal is to to maximize

Citi on things to... For productive use. Okay. And so do we expect to make money on this? Well, we're getting a lease. So, I mean You might be surprised how little it is.

No. You're not probably making any money on this. I am making money on that homeowners to this... To the east. You'd like

to investigate the water.

I think that's a good idea only because I think this... I like the idea that you have a resident who wants to make this place better. Now that's my definition. I think it's better in the sense that something's happening there, and it's being useful. But I don't know if it's a good idea if he just has his own house water, and that's all he has. I just think that's logistically not a... I mean, we don't water any part there. You're just gonna feed them. You're just gonna have a big trough for the horses, and they'll trample the rest. Or you're gonna water a a parcel to have a little grass? I mean, so I just think it's more complicated without water.

So I... It... You're right, Randy. I agree. And it's complicated with water because how are you gonna convey that? Are you... I don't think there's gonna be flood irrigation since you're talking about more infrastructure. Like, you mentioned the pump. Yep. Now you're talking about arguing with the canal company about when you can run the pump because you can't get all the water out in a flood irrigation on their schedule. I mean, with and with and without water is the first question about water, but then can you actually use the water to mitigate the impacts?

Sure.

But I like the idea. I grew up with horses. I grew up with cows. I grew up on a farm. So this kind of excites me that somebody wants to wants to do this and and kind of bring a little bit of that inside our city. I... That doesn't really bother me. I like it. I just think you need water to make this work.

I I I hate... I'm not opposed to this idea whatsoever, but I think the lessee should have some responsibility about figuring out water and stuff like that instead of you chasing that. Yeah. If if the... Yeah. BC wants to do something, let them figure out those details.

They could run a sprinkler from... Mhmm. So I guess

That's a lot of that's a lot of cost. Pretty penny. That's a lot of water. But I do agree with what the mayor is saying there because what is the responsibility? I mean, that's... He's gotta figure that out. If he... Maybe it... I'm sure he's thought through that. I mean, how am I gonna water this, or what am I gonna water? I mean, I hate to say, yeah. Let's just lease it, but we don't know the plan of the lease.

He does.

Well, he spends a couple $100,000 on fencing and all this infrastructure, whatever it's gonna cost, and then no one likes it. And every every storm comes up and everyone's cleaning their windows with dust. I mean, then nobody's happy. So it's just... I think that we need to have some type of... What... Does he have water? What's it gonna look like? What's the plan? So it's hard to give a lease an open blank or do what you wanna do with it, you know, with the horses.

It's a challenge. I think if you give public notice, you know, to all of the landowners, at least you get the feedback and know how everyone's feeling to have a better idea, I guess.

Just because you put out a bid doesn't mean you have to do it.

Just throwing that out. That's a good point. Put a a plan in place

for recruitment.

Just so everybody's... Everyone knows. All this, you know,

would be nice for... But just decide, well, we want to deal with that property. Right.

Yeah.

I'm not sure you'll get a fair answer from people that haven't lived next to horses about what it's like to live next to horses. Again, because there's a bunch of unknowns about is this is this a dust bowl, or is this grassy pasture? And we don't know. Yeah. But I think you kinda have to take a chance. Probably some.

I think this one tries to balance, to answer your question, the idea of either preserving key wildlife corridors and open space as said in our plan or a strong sense of community and the city's heritage. It's probably not a wildlife corridor. Well, it won't be if we put horses there.

Wild horses? Wild bears. Let's

put bears. I mean, there's there's birds there. There's muskrat type thingies there. There's snakes there. There's butterflies there, all two of them.

Those are more on the canal than they are on They are. Dried out piece of property. They are.

So I think we can balance both. And I do think that the city's heritage, as he referenced, includes some livestock every now and then.

So I'm cool with it. I agree. Wanna move to the next property? Yeah.

What's the directions to Justin? Oh, I already gave him. That a bit. Right up a right up a... Together in RFD. K. And I think I think

need to

understand

Yeah.

Doesn't Yeah. I think you could try to mitigate that, and that's worth an effort. No no guarantee of success, but at least try.

Yeah. If only you knew a water guy. If only.

Hey. Next

next property. Oh, you're doing the hard ones first?

Yeah. Let's do it. I like that.

Doing the ones that would require a change of use. Yeah.

And hers hurts.

Cool.

Then It doesn't seem big enough. I mean, how big is that workspace? I remember right. It was only, like, three quarters of an acre. Sweet. Yeah. It wasn't a lot because the lots there are only 12,000 square feet. I remember it was only, like Yeah. Right. Push the little arrows on the bottom. It's right around 28,000 square feet of work. It's been a few weeks we've lived to this.

28.

28.

Who bumps the water between those two?

We caught here.

That's a problem.

If she was trying to connect.

She has an indoor arena. She hasn't got them on. So the request for action

is Nibley City to declare this property as surplus and sell it to her. Right. That's what she needs. So I don't think that's on our agenda tonight.

I'm not interested in leasing this property.

Yeah.

I'm not either. I like what it is,

personally. Right now. I do too. I You wanna sell? I walked the park. It's it's nice. If we wanna sell it, that's another story. But that's a whole different road to walk down. I think... And tonight, we're talking about leases.

I think I think If we wanna sell it, tell me you wanna sell it. Yeah. That's fine too. I don't wanna sell it. But I don't need to. I'd rather sell it than lease it.

I think it make... If you're leasing it, it makes the most sense to lease it to Morgan Farm 15 feet away. Because they're...

Because they have so much money to pay for the lease. Proximity. Because we can get the same dollar a dollar a year deal out of this property as the other ones

since we're maximizing return on investment. We already talked about it. We're not trying to make money here.

And it's not really being used now. At least Morgan Farm did something with it. You know what'd be good? What do you mean it's not being used?

I've never seen a person in that park ever. Rod says a few times, he's seen a few boys playing flag football.

I've never seen... In all the years I've driven by on 8th West, which is... Used to be my main road,

I've never seen... I mean, we I... We don't even have soccer teams practice here, which we could. We'd... Why don't we let Chad farm this out for practice use? Our own internal use.

I just referred to mayor's... One of our things is prioritizing open space, and that's what I view this as. It's not

used maybe the way traditional parks are, but it's there. It's nice. It's got mature trees. I I think it's a good setting. Tree... There's a few trees on it, but Yeah. So A lot of them are on the property just the south. I had a picnic there once. There's a table there? Yes. Yeah. It's not bad.

Not as Jen Lee Singh. Except for maybe sports teams practices.

It's just But that's right. It's just not very big. It's so small.

It's 40.

Yes. Lisa. Yeah. Put out a bid. All yours, Mike. Oh, put out a bid.

For farm... For farming or what?

Let let Morgan farm pharma. They wanna do it, let them.

Whatever it is. Just like the other property.

There is water here. It will take some work,

and we have been watering it with shares. The previous owner owned quite a bit of other property in the area. They had a pretty elaborate system of pipes and sprinklers, but they have... Terminate that system. So it will have to be watered by a flood irrigate or

a new pump system. At least the pump, but for a lot of the pipe problems would still be usable.

There would be some investment in pump to make the pump run.

This is Zone County. Right?

This is this is it. Don't we own this? Okay. I mean, isn't it in our jurisdiction? Think it's absolutely in the county. Yeah. So we never annexed it. So we're

Hang on. The land use is restricted to county jurisdiction. So put a a bid knowing that it has to abide by county restrictions would be my suggestion. Sorry. A a request for proposal, not a bid. A call forbids.

Lisa White.

RFP. I say Morgan Farm. We wanna help Nibley. The whole point of this is to help Nibley. Right? Morgan Farm benefits Nibley. So why wouldn't we do that?

I thought you said on the last one, it was to make money.

No. You said to do something that just... Doesn't just sit there. You said not make money. So we weren't interested in making money.

Use.

That's why I don't like pocket parks, especially when they're not used. I mean, maybe. It's worthless space.

I love Morgan Farm. I'm on their board. I don't think they deserve exclusive access to this land. It's different. Morgan Farms serves a purpose for residents that don't have open space near them, I think, more so with the ability to do it. I just think this one's a little different. Morgan Farms in our city limits.

This is not all the animals anymore in farm. Good. Good.

So I've heard one, put out a bid and one, give it to Morgan Farm to run. I'm not sure for how much, Garrett. Do you know? For nothing? That's okay. Just if that's your proposal.

I mean, did we get anything from Peterson on it? No?

That was part of the purchase agreement. Things are different now. That's because we knew it was gonna sit there for a long time, and it may have it may have affected the price of the land. I was actually here when we bought it. I can't say what was going through their minds when they sold it.

You give it to them and let them pay for the improvements, for the pump and everything. Last come out of their fucking... That's just my idea.

I mean, you... We've already stated it can only be used as a as a county purpose. Right? And Morgan Farm could put in a bid to to lease it. So I'd say just put out a bid then.

I agree. I

I agree.

Okay. It's all now..

You could get the bids in and still decide. Yep. Just... I think the advantage of the bid is you find out what people think it's worth. They wanna do... What you're giving up. Yeah. It's a good point.

K.

Done?

You got what you need from us, Justin?

Cool? Yeah. Right. Get stuff in the ground, and hopefully, the Petersons still help. Are are they just... Do they have expertise to share? Yeah. I mean, he could... He told me he was.

Well, I hear he did that. Oh.

But she's far better.

So is there currently anything... I'm trying to remember. Is there something growing on there right now? Yeah. Will they cut it before they stop farming it then? And... Okay. So right now, it's just stubble.

And we don't want it to go... When did you say fallow? Yeah.

So we'd like something Those bids might be, hey. I wanna put in a bunch of grass soccer fields and run it here. Hey. That'd be awesome. Right? I don't think it's gonna happen, but I've seen it done elsewhere in the valley.

Okay. Let's do council reports, Randy.

I have nothing. Thank you.

My turn. My turn? I did get the chance last week to go do a tour of the Provo Rec Center in Nathan's Stead. So I was down there attending a conference in my real life, and they were down there. The indoor rec committee was doing a tour, and Nathan couldn't go. So I was able to go do that tour to represent, I guess, Neli the best I could. So it was really interesting. Got to meet many of this... The county council members that I've not had a chance to meet before because I know them better, and then just kinda get that experience through maybe what the committee was thinking of, considering, maybe provide some input based on what I saw. So it's a cool process. If anyone's had any questions about what I'd seen, if you wanna talk about it now or just in an email or conversation afterwards, that's fine as well. It was cool. Provo Rec Center is really nice, large, built thirteen years ago at a cost that made sense thirteen years ago. Much different today, obviously, but it was a good idea. It was a good tour. Gotta learn from their program director and the the people running the show of kinda what... How they how they think of it. It's one of the few rec centers in Utah that actually makes money, so it was good to hear how they pursue it. Was this the steering committee, or did county council go on this trip? Steering steering committee. Yeah.

So So some some council members were there. Yeah. Yep.

So, yeah, just wanted to relay that. That's it for me. K. Thanks.

You're good.

I remember to pronounce Harry's stuff this time. Couple of them come in combination. Anna... Aaron brought this one up last time about the email from the gal going to a water lot... A water wise landscape area. And so I want... My idea was, you know, to do something. Can we can we have her do something on that strip between Nibley Farms so that something goes there so that it's not Sure. Between Nimbly Farms. You know, though, when everybody complains about. That's so ugly. More specific. Bring up the GIS.

Talking about section three of the 12th West Park.

I don't remember what space is one.

Is that right? Had the the trail and the the fences are different heights, and it's just Oh, just the walkway that we walk through. The walk through.

Where the child fell into the canal. Well, yeah. Almost.

They did fall in, I think. You're right. Anyway, I wondered if that was a place since she wanted to do it in water wise. If that was an area that was too big or too small for what she was wanting to do, it might help beautify that since we've had complaints about it, and it's not really appealing as it is.

Yeah.

Yes. So... And if they're willing to do that, to show something water wise and we don't have to really pay for it, sounds good to me. And in combination with that, since we were talking about parks and different things, I wonder if there was something that could be done for... You know, we talked about even the enforcement officer talked about having some communities. And do we do, like, a day of service to help plant the water wise plants or something and create a community event to help accomplish both goals? Just an idea. Don't know. The only other thing I wanted to bring up is we haven't talked about... I mentioned it a few times, but I haven't heard anything else about amending the budget to do the code revamp to, revamp the code to be in alignment with the new general plan we spent so much time on. I think that's important, and so I would still like to see that done.

Sure.

When

we brought that to you guys last time, there were a couple of other amendments. We thought we were gonna have to make softwares or things like that. We wanted to figure some of that out before we brought it back to you. We've decided that's not gonna happen. Software bounced around, landed where we're gonna exist with the work we have now. So I apologize. I kinda took my foot off the gas in that one. Kinda let it go. So

Okay. I apologize about that. Nope. No problem.

And then have we heard anything else on that piece for the development we have the conceptual meeting on for that piece north of Heritage, you know, on the corner of 22 And 800 that Karchar is proposing, the detached single family homes. Have we heard anything else from them on that? They're doing something there.

So... The excavator.

I had someone claim that they built it.

And let me... It said they have the permits in order to do so. Correct? And that is all you're aware of.

Okay. Because doesn't that still need to be annexed in the Nibley?

Yeah. It's in the county. Uh-huh. That's what I remember.

So... But we haven't seen anything about that.

Hey. I can I can promise you that there will be a discussion about who annexes that land? So despite what we heard through other conversations to our neighbor to the north, there's... It's not a slam dunk that Kartsner wants to come to Nibley because they're having the same conversations in another town. You know?

K. Well, I might reach out. And then the only other... I had another thought that just from our... From Roxy doing the presentation on Morgan and Farm at the last meeting and talked about, you know, the barn and different things. I just wrote down a thought. I'm like, have we utilized any type of social media or anything to the public to generate donations or funds to do something with that barn so that we can keep the heritage? Or have we have we looked at avenue, you know, revenue options? You know? I mean, I see enough, you know, fun me things for everybody else. Why can't we have one for our barn? It was just a thought I had. I didn't know if anybody... If that's been explored or talked about on the committee or if that's something we even wanna consider and pushing. You know, everyone's always looking for a good story. We got one. We got a barn with some heritage, and we'd like to preserve it. Who wants to pitch in? And there's enough people with money in this valley that we might get more donations than we think if we make them all aware of it. Just a thought. And that's all I got.

Erin?

I was texting with Roxy about this three weeks ago when she was here, and she said now that they've got... Gotten their five zero one c three status, they can start applying for more grants. And so she was thinking about different grants, and we talked about... I wanna say it was an Echols grant funding cycle that she could have maybe applied for that really focuses also on, like, preserving local heritage, things like that. So I think that's something that probably the Christiansen are

looking at, thinking about. I don't even know if you have to do it through a grant process, can't you? You just got your... I mean,

nobody likes a good story. It's it's possible. And I know that they've had some thoughts about that, but they haven't got very very far. We really need to decide, I think, what we want to do with it. Do we wanna just keep it alive, or do we wanna refurbish it? Some of that depends on if we can get some of those grants. So I think Roxy and Mike can correct us, but it's fishing for those grants as well as we had some discussion with the Bragg, and they have hired a couple of new people that have some experience in historical preservation. So Levi's reached out to them a little bit and had some discussions with them, put them in touch with Roxy. And had some other ideas, but we... We've... I I don't know how hard we've investigated just doing a fundraiser,

keep the barn barn alive donations. I don't know. And just I just thought about that because of her report, and then I got... I've gotten a couple emails of people asking for money for something else in another state. And I was like, I wonder if we've explored doing that for this. Yeah. So... Oh, it's just a thought. So

I spent the day with one of those brag employees. Drive is all waking back on CDBG stuff, and we talked about historic preservation on that barn and how she might might be able to help us. You probably know who I'm talking about. Erin?

The only thing I have is we got a rousing debate on Monday from the second graders at Nibley Elementary, and they want another crosswalk to help keep kids safe in our city. But they're kind of a little confused about where they want the crosswalk, but they know that they want one. So

that's all. Jobs, and Raiders. Yeah. That was fun. Gotten all about that already. Thanks for doing that with us,

Sarah. Just wish it was the middle of the day. It's all good. Yeah. Speaking about crosswalks,

I was able to go with Tom and Justin to meet this community council and others for the middle school. Those first few weeks were a little rough, but I think it was awesome. And one thing I just wanna throw out is how quickly our city staff responded. I think it was kinda cool for me to just kinda sit and watch them, when asked, say, we'll take care of it, and it was done probably within an hour or two. And it was just simply putting flags at that crosswalk because nothing else necessarily warrants yet, but I was really pleased with our city staff in that moment where they just kinda said, we'll own what we can right now, and we'll get it done right now, and they did. So thank you. I've heard that it's going better. The only follow-up I had there is our last meeting. There was some, a public comment about how 8th West was going. I just didn't know if we had had to address anything there. You're welcome to chat about it afterwards or in your own reports, but just that didn't come up in our conversation, but it did in a public comment that first week. Just cars kinda piling up to pick up kids as they came off of 8th West. On that sidewalk... New sidewalk. I believe it was a a citizen that was trying to drive a trailer through that mentioned that that was tough. And we kinda knew that was gonna happen. I just... It hasn't come up other than that that I've heard. So --.

Yeah. That's it.

Have we received any complaints about it? Okay. Maybe if you guys noticed something. Thanks, Nick, for going. There's a few more of those planned, and the idea is to go to different sizes. So Provo was our big. We'll now try to go to a small and a medium before

we're done. A good option for that.

I think Ogden and maybe Davis was what's on the list.. Yeah. Still have an aggressive meeting schedule where we meet every Monday to try to get something done. With that being said, I think we, as a city, need to reorganize and bring our group back together and activate and finish that process on the city side regardless of what's happening. I just... I know why we've waited the the move... Momentum we had about a district and those kind of things. I think we need to keep going. It's been delayed too much. Probably need to regain that momentum. Yep. Yep. So I don't remember who was in charge of that committee, but let's get them organized again. That's it. Thanks.

I wonder if I can try to do a little bit of a fire update because I think we made a decision and... Which is not a final decision, but based on the planning from the fire district level, the planning from a subcommittee of the fire district board called the South Operational... SOAC, South Operational Advisory Committee, which is all of us South Of Logan, including Minden, to try to figure out, you know, what what fire protection and EMS looks like. In the long run, for Nibley to be adequately served with fire and EMS, there needs to be another station. Hiram City has a fire station. The county owns a fire station called Station 150 up by the Fairgrounds or the Hornets Baseball Field, if I can refer to it that way. That will hopefully... The the the ownership of that station will... And and apparatus are in there, both ambulance and fire truck, will be transferred to the fire district from the county. I can't... We can't guarantee that the county's gonna do that, but all indications are, I think, that that will happen. The long term for fire to protect Nibley citizens means build a new station. North

So do you... Time me out for a second. No. Ask Nick on your last point of the county turning things over. You were with the county, so the county council had some brief discussions on your tour. Would... Is there anything you wanna share from that that would

change what On fire? On fire. Oh, you know more than I do now? Oh. That's okay. Yeah. He tied... He each called me, and I was... And I'm sorry. I was watching soccer, you know, so I probably wasn't like How many county council members were you with?

Two. No. One. K. One. But I've but I've... No. No. Just my opinion. They... And and then they didn't commit... I mean, they couldn't commit to anything or whatever, but I just shared my thoughts of, like, the direction I think the county should go in is to own all fire throughout the valley or the county, essentially.

No. So there's... So it's it's not the county. It would be the fire district. District. Yes. Yeah. Essentially, a county wide fire district. Yeah. There's there's a lot of merit for a unified fire district, all of Cache County minus Logan. A lot of us think that's the proper scale of of service that we ought to get to. It's also not gonna happen real soon because the... It... This is the same discussion we've had about libraries. And that is when there was a countywide library proposal, the people with library said, I'm out. We have assets. We have built a library of our own. We're not gonna participate in that. We're not gonna give that up. That's the same threat from Hiram and Smithfield to say we're unifying Let them County Fire Protection. It it can't fly. Okay. I've I've chased that with chief Brady George. We cannot put up a unified fire district that can solve the problem and protect the citizens of Cache County minus Logan, minus Hiram, minus Smithfield without taxing people to death.

Those people that live in those cities. No. They will do their own thing, and we have to figure out Great accounting white won't charge everybody.

Say it again? No. No. I'm just... Go ahead. I'm just saying things. Those cities will say, we've taken care of our city. You guys have to go put up a unified fire district, and you will pay for that. And there is a way for them to get out. So it's been a... I mean, I'm with you. It... It's it's it's been a incredible journey of negotiation to try to keep the gang together and not have people take their marbles and go home. To to to build to that would... But to be more specific about what happens to Nibley, somewhere in the next three to four years, we need to build a fire station. And, hopefully, we can do that in conjunction with Millville and, hopefully, in conjunction with Providence.

Yes. When you say we, you mean the South? No. I mean, Nibley City, Millville City, and Providence City. The three of us would need to build a fire station in one of our cities. Right.

And there's a logical place. It's gotta be South Of Logan and North Of Hiram. I mean, that's the only way that we can get adequate fire fire and EMS service

to our citizens. Go ahead, Nate. So by building said station, does that mean the three of us theoretically would share in cost of operations and everything together? Ownership Yeah. And cost. Yeah. And ownership's a big deal for me. So we would create a three city dirt district.

It's not a district. We could do it through interlocal agreement. Interlocal. Okay. But it's it's like a it's like a... Another fire station in the fire district. Yeah. Right. Right now, we we do not receive adequate protection in the... Where we are. Response times are too long, too slow. Part of that is because Hiram runs a volunteer fire department, which they're planning to step up that level of service to a professional staffed fire department. A step in the direction of ownership in this fire station and adequate protection for either Nibley or Nibley Millville or Nibley Millville, Providence is for Nibley City and Millville to assume operational expenses for what's called the Station 150 in Hiram. Again, owned by the county, but available for use without making a land purchase or without making apparatus purchases through the assets transferred from the county to the fire district. That leaves a question about who's going to actually operate that Station 150. And the decision that we got to with Melville is that that will either be Nibley City employees with Melville helping pay that, or we're still working with what might develop with the fire district to hire existing fire district employees when they become fire district employees from county employees

and cover those operational expenses. Yes, Sarah. But how does a station placed geographically in Hiram improve improve response times? Is it just the fact that the firefighters are already there because they're paid professionals staying there? That's the So they don't have to come from their homes. So that increases They don't have to come from wherever they are. Wherever they are. So that increases

Right. Monster. Right.

But that's still a short term solution, right, as opposed to what needs to happen in three or four years of of fire station

between Logan and Hireup. When you say short term, that... Does that mean, like, this needs to happen in the next... Before the end of the year?

We need to have that station manned... Personed

by the beginning of the year. So, I mean, like... Yeah. Oh, wow. K. So we gotta get 20 hands. We gotta get employee advertisements out.

The beauty is that we... Because of the fire district, we can actually step into what's already an operational station.

We don't have to re... We don't have to reinvent how to run a station. Right. But we still have to go through the process of hiring people even if they already know what they're doing and are already completing this role. They'll just be working for a new employer. Yep. That's that's if they become Nibley employees. Yeah. And

we're hoping that we can, in fact, have Nibley and Millville cover the expenses of those employees, but they would, in fact, be district employees for the short term. Okay. And the district can deal with retirement plans and all that other stuff

k. Of hiring firefighters and EMS personnel. I think we recently have our volunteers in their budget.

We do have volunteers that work from the Hiram Station. Not the one fifty. Correct. Okay. Alright. And and so the the staffing is actually full time, six full time EMS firefighters plus part time, six to back up when the full times can't be there. When I say six, that's two per eight hour shift, round the clock coverage. And then volunteers to back up the part times and come when they can.

Two volunteers in that way that do that? Yeah. And so

don't talk to them yet because we don't know how station one fifty exactly is going to be staffed except... And here's here's... As hard as it seems to actually come to a decision, Millville and Justin and I, along with consultation with Millville, will not be bringing you a proposal to contract with Hiram to run Station 150. This is how we step into a responsibility of owning the fire protection problem and EMS. Costs are roughly the same. We have numbers from Hiram. It's a little bit harder to work out the whole budget yet for, you know, Nibley employees or Nibley covering the expenses of district employees. But we feel like it's the right way to go for us to start assuming ownership and responsibility for this problem that we need to solve. So there is a decision that... Even though Hiram said they would contract with us to run that station, we're we're not we're not selecting that option. Not bringing you a proposal to do that. If you all want it, let us know. Is that enough? Yeah. What else to add? Changes rapidly.

Yeah. I think It's a very dynamic situation. Yeah. And I think some of our plan, we have kinda a b c laid out, but some of that's gonna depend on how Hiram reacts because that that news will have a good idea, hopefully, of that tomorrow. Tomorrow? Yeah. We have a SOAC meeting tomorrow. Tomorrow? K. But my, you know, might shift this a little. We'll see. It's been fun. It's been a kind of wild ride.

And we have a joint meeting next week, so planning commission.

Let me see. With Hiram? No. No. Eric, Mike. Meeting.

Okay. That's enough. I'm done. Okay.

I just wanna say thanks for supporting me and letting me be part of the National Rural Water Association board of directors. My first meeting was this... Or conference was this last week, and just wanna thank staff for basically running the place without me. They did a great job. Don't... They don't need me. But, also, just thank you to you for letting me go and do that. It was it was entertaining. There were some good things, and it's it's very, honestly, I sat there and I thought about a lot of the same fire discussion is happening across the country in the water world and regionalization and combining. And there's a big fight right now between privatization of... So privatization and regionalization. These private companies are coming in, buying water systems and trying to build these, you know, conglomerate monopolies in the water industry, and it's a big deal. But I kept coming back to the fire in my head, like, similar discussion, similar discussion. And everybody there was singing our song about, you know, you need to maintain representation on a board, and you can't just let somebody else have a monopoly and some some things like that. But it sounds like it's a pretty size of the fight across the country right now. Anyway, it was pretty interesting. Thanks for letting me be part of that, and thank you to staff for taking care of things while I'm gone. Quick update on the trail discussions. Fire has derailed those a little bit, but you all have some communication from one of the residents that live there. I've been given a direction. I've marched down that trail, and I... If if you want me to march a different direction, I need to hear it. But I'm plowing forward with the direction that we got in that meeting. So headed that direction.

Talking about the... In the gardens. Sell of

Selling the property private... Public property to those individuals. Yeah. Gotcha. On that trail. Right. Right. Where we talked about leasing the property. Not the trail. It's property next to property next to the trail.

And then there was some discussion last time that I failed you on about grubs and conservation, and I told you I would get you an update. I asked Steve for that update, but I haven't followed up. So I'll try to get you some information on... You had some question about some of the properties and some grub damage and some things like that. I will get that for you this next week at the latest, send you an email. And that's all I have.

Oh, yeah.

I'll send you an email about that one too. Sir.

Me? Ball? Oh, yes.

Remember that pump on twelve West? The fence is falling down.

Oh, the pump house. Yeah. On on 12 West, there's that pump that had the white vinyl fence around it. Got the fence. It's all busted up and broken. And Yeah. It's a mess. Yeah.

So I... We did ask Rod to look to look into repairing it or replacing it, and the general consensus was just to rebuild it because the current... The vinyl fence doesn't hold up to the plowing that's occurring along the road nor does it... Or nor along the sidewalk and stuff. So he looked into a complete new fence, and it's roughly $6,000. So if you want us to look into something else and just, like, a Band Aid fix, we can look at it, but I think we'd be there... Back there every other year trying to keep that repaired. So so that is our case. Whatever council really tells us. But

No. That fence was a requirement of development that went in, but the account company could care less about that fence and has given us zero indication that they're gonna do it. Believe it's our problem. Oh,

so let's tear it down?

No. Just the fence around the pump. Security issue. It it pretty much about that last For them, it's a security issue.

It it... We could look at it as a nuisance. But Yeah. It would look better with no fence than What? A partial fence. A nuisance citation.

Oh. I'm serious.

Let's not. I I suspect I'm I'm trying to work with the canal company on something. That's probably endangering

people by not having a fence around it. Whether it's our problem liability or whether it's the canal company's liability. I don't know. He should have taken theirs. He should have taken I would love it to be theirs. So I'm stuck. Yeah. Well, tell us Let's fix. We will negotiations

with them also in a minute on that one.

Oh, they use their same thing against them. I love it. Situation. Sure.

Just really quickly, the transportation master plan, we're roughly 50 to 60% complete on a draft. Next week, we have a joint meeting with the planning commission and city council. Aaron's been a great member on the the steering committee. We appreciate that. So the joint meeting will be on the twenty fourth between 06:30 and 07:30. There... The consultant's gonna come in. I'm hoping to be there. I have some other commitments, but the consultant will be there and he's gonna present a story map and you will see a rough, very rough draft of the master plan in a packet starting next week. Following that, we have a public open house scheduled on the October 14 from 05:30 to 07:00 here. This is to gather input from any and everybody, both niblets and and anybody else. So I I asked Wendy to put something on our calendar. We'll have to do some more social media to try to get the word out for that date. I know... I think I saw it in the newsletter as well. Thank you, mayor. Good science. The other one is a technical advisory committee. So this is a group of folks that consist of buses, fire, community members in our neighboring communities, executives, every... All the stakeholders that kind of share our roads and our networks. So we met with them once already and got some initial feedback and introduced the project. And this will present also the story map and seek additional input from them so we can finalize this plan. And, hopefully, we can get that done by the end of the year, have it in front of council for consideration for adopting. So, in this next meeting, I think a lot... I... I'll just suggest that the focus... If you're running short on time, it's it's a big document, but look at the the functional classification map. So this is a map that tells... That describes what the function of each road is, perhaps an arterial road or a collector road or an intersection of one of the two or both. Focus on that because that's gonna be the basis of our connectivity, of our our transportation network. From there, look at the phase one projects plans. It'll have a project plans, and it'll suggest these things, different projects, treatment here, road, modernization here, widening here, whatever it is, because that's gonna drive budget and that'll drive what impact fees will look like. So if we can get those two things nailed down, we can easily move into a finalization of the plan. But... So I I would just just suggest if you're short on time, maybe focus on those two elements there. So quick update on Ridgeline or excuse me, Nibley City Center Park. I'm still calling it Ridgeline City Park. We've resumed efforts on construction as of this week. We're hoping to have that done in five weeks. Off, running, done, landscaped, everything else. You'll see the pavilions are being erected now. I think two of them have roofs on it. The electrician started this afternoon trying to tie everything up. He still has a lot of work, but, we're trying to get that done, get all our grants dispersed, and be done with that. The Ute Ladies Tresses, they did come and they've gone. They've gone to seed, and there were very few populations. So according to our agreement with the US for... Fish and wildlife, we need to start considering how to maintain that and main... Maintain the habitat of the lady's tresses as well. And, historically, they prosper when there's grazing activity. So, that... That's the best environment for them. Best habitat is that grazing activity. Maybe someone with goats or lambs or horses. You go Maybe we maybe we can lease. Maybe we can lease that area for some grazing. I I don't know. But Wait. What are you left? That's what I've got for you. Any questions? Couldn't have to irrigate it. G

any update on those being removed from the list that was proposed and voted on and had public comment?

It... It's it's all in the works, but It won't be according to the agreement, we have eighteen more years of this. So this is our last formal survey. So every other year hereafter, we have to do a a... Just a count, and that could be volunteers. And I've already worked... I'm already working with a a group that's... I'm trying to talk into doing it. So, the school, thanks for bringing that up. Nathan, thanks for your attendance with the community council. We... We've take immediate actions already. The the orange flags, we've ordered some delineators that will direct traffic out of the school and right turn only on the 3200 South. That'll really help with some congestion. I'm looking... I've I've done several informal pedestrian counts, and I've done one formal count with gap timing of cars in preparation of a warrant study. Just kinda... Just get a preliminary study going. I've I've been doing that. I've I've focused a lot of time on that. It's still very small usage, low numbers. 41 people is the the top number of pedestrians at any one time. And for those crossings was a mother with two children, dropped one off at the middle school, and then crossed with her child again. I counted her anyway, but 41. So, basically, 37 students are for crossing. But we're... I'm also... Pardon? Just give them a contrast out ticket. Oh, so I did... I I have done a war study on on the reduced speed school zone on 8th West, and there was a 107 students that crossed on 8th West in the afternoon. There was close to a 100 in the mornings. So there... It's a far cry from the... And that barely warranted by, like, the exact number of points. It... It's a engineering thing. You have to score points, and that barely warranted. And and I had to stretch some rules to get it to warrant. But it's... I didn't risk my license or anything. They're they're all legitimate rules. But The the only thing that could help warrant this crossing is the length of the crossing. There's about 58 feet of asphalt unlike along 800 West. So the gap timing... The gap has to be longer between vehicles, but that takes time to go through all the data I've collected already. So I... I've spent hours out there just timing cars and counting

pedestrians and things. So, Erin, you had Is this just kids crossing from the South side of 3200 South to the north side?

Yeah. In the morning from the south to north and north to south in the afternoon. Yes. So, I mean, there... There's

lots... There are more kids than that walking to the middle school from north of the school. Right? Correct. It's not that there's only 37 kids walking to middle school. Just only 37 crossing that street from the South to the North Side. I I haven't done any numbers

of anyone coming on the South Side. I've I've been

hyper focused on this 3200 South Crosswalk. That makes sense. I just wanna clarify where these kids were walking from.

So we are looking into other treatments, perhaps in our rapid flashing beacon like we did at Ander Park. I'm trying to get pricing on a design there. And I'm I'm also getting a proposal from a consulting firm to do a full warrant study, so I won't have those for a couple of weeks. Anyway, those are the efforts we're making. We're we're trying to be reactive and trying to stay up... Keep up with this demand. And and there has been emails I've spent time responding to as well. But regarding the conflict, I'm I'm not sure that there is a really, really a conflict with the let... The no left hand turn. That was something the the school did. We supported it. It's not like we said you can't do that. They... It was a great idea, and they just responded to what they were seeing. So they said, hey. If we don't let people turn left, then it'll help things out. So they did it, and we're fine with that. I think we're working very well with the school. So I was surprised to hear that statement. People still turn Any other questions?

There was a very cool response today of services past Saturday. We believe there's just a lot of competing offers. So the community member that really helps us pull this off is we've... We already got ideas for next year. And I may consider asking a council member to just come sit on those committee meetings, give us a little bit of guidance. So next year, we'll do better.

We're at the at the end of the agenda, and it's 11:00. Any objection to abandoning ship? Mhmm. Seeing none, we are