Nibley City Council Meeting- 7/16/26

That is good. Hey, Nick. Do you wanna test your audio real quickly? So That's cool. Just can't stop. Okay. I

mean, I run out of things to do with you. I can't hear you.

You there, Nick? Bye now. And those I told you earlier, bud, build a barn at the moment. Build a barn. It works. Okay.

Council, ladies, gentlemen, staff, thank you for coming tonight. It looks like we're, like, in the right place at the right time. So I think I think sorry. Real quick, Mary. I'm trying to get the audio work for Nick maybe before we get in. Yeah. We get the the kids staff council member online. Yes. And then audio for YouTube as well. Nick?

Can you hear me? Good.

Now we can. Yes. Okay. Cool. Great. Thank you. Yep.

Alright. Before we

call our meeting, I mean, give Darren Mann, Josh McMann an opportunity to speak to us.

Hey. Thank you.

This last week, I got the other Jack and Paul, and I'll show you the fish picture, picture of the fish. I'm not gonna see it, but that's not mine. Oh, it's not mine. My comment is actually about, my concerns. And, in Jack and Paul, we've done a pretty big job of retrofitting all the streets within the city, most of the streets either have separate bike lanes or just painted bike lanes. And then there's a lot of paved bike trails around the county as well. So we got to enjoy some of those this past week. And I'm just excited about all the efforts that our staff are making and some of the planning and pacing our own histories with bike trails. As well as on a county level, we've got some new bike trails around the paved trail out to the valley. So just excited about the forward momentum we have in terms of making trails for our citizens to be able to both commute and recreate. I was passed at least one, maybe more than once, by quite an elderly lady in front of e bikes. So, I mean, there were people there were kids out. There were grands and grandpas out. There were people from all over the community out biking, and I thought it was just a really cool thing. And I'm excited about the momentum that we're making in that city. So that's a without me, we're getting to stand and say the bloody pollutes.

I believe it's two to five. The United States

and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, Eric. Appreciate that. The old ladies on Ebikes didn't intimidate you when you didn't have I just Okay. Make it all work done. Yeah. With that, we'll call our meeting to order. July 16, Nibley City Council. Start with the roll call with you, please, Randy. Randy Sloan. Here.

Nathan Morrison.

And online, we have Nick Kent Scott, council member Nick Kent Scott. Thank you. And, Nick, throughout the meeting, please let me or staff know if you cannot hear what is going on with discussion. We are glad you're here remotely, and we'll make that a requirement that you can be part of the discussion by hearing what we're talking about. When you have something to say

go ahead.

This is perfect. When you have something to say, just jump in, and we'll Okay. We'll figure out. Yeah. I just said thank yep. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. Great. And I'm Larry Jacobson.

Levi Roberts, city planner.

Justin, city manager. Arne Jacobson, city engineer.

And Bob, unit corp.

Okay. Thank you. With that, counsel, I'll ask you to take a look at June 25 meeting minutes and also tonight's meeting. Yep. Motion to approve minutes in the agenda, sir. We have a motion from Nathan.

There's

give me a second. Literally, Nathan. Second. A second from Garrett's. There is one item on the agenda that will probably be a very short discussion, and that is the annexation agreement and annexation of of of k holdings. It's items

nine and

Eight to nine. Thank you. So the council can go at, like, the proponent has actually asked that it not be on the agenda, but it's already published. And so you could have it anyway and do your discussion with that proponent. We're waiting on legalities of the annexation brief. So you could modify the agenda

and take that off, or you can leave it on and just have a short discussion or talk about whatever you want and continue it to another to another meeting. So here it goes.

Substitute motion or admin you want.

You you probably just stop or substitute.

And I'll press substitute motion to amend the nights and gender, remove items anyway.

Okay. So you're keeping approval of the next, substituting, removing items a and nine from tonight's agenda. That's now a substitute motion without a second and second for Mandy, and we could have that discussion down. K. Nick, are you aware of where we're at?

Yep. Sorry. I fat fingered my keyboard. I apologize.

I don't wanna break any ties, brother. Any opposition to voting on that motion? Seeing none. Those in favor of the substitute motion do accept minutes from June 25 and adopt an amended agenda which would not include items eight and nine, please say aye. Aye.

That's a a yes from you, Nick?

Yes.

Okay. Any opposed? Oh, for all that? It passes me now. It could go away. Appreciate it. Alright. Next, let's move to a public comment period. This is a chance for residents to speak to the council about anything they'd like to talk about. We we have a moderate agenda tonight, so we ask that comments be limited to two minutes. And there is one public hearing that is on the agenda related to solicitation rules. If you're here to speak to that public hearing, it's probably best to give us your comments in that context. Other than that, it's anything you'd like to talk about. There's also another item that you might be here for just guessing a little bit on a development agreement, Dela Crete. And if you wanna speak to that, you're more than welcome to. I got caught up from planning commission. And if council feels it's appropriate, I'm going into a little bit of extra detail here. Between our first reading, which is tonight, which is where the topic is introduced to the council, and the council has a chance to just understand what the proposal actually is without necessarily getting into the heavy lifting of pros and cons and policy decisions. We if the council would like, it's not a requirement, but I'd be more than happy to schedule a public hearing if we get a a a favorable vote on first reading and we go to second reading with this. So keep that in mind. Keep that in mind. We welcome you to speak tonight. We welcome you to speak at our second meeting. And if there is one, and also at a public hearing of the catalog. Okay? With that, yes, we're just we're not into that topic yet. We're just into general comments that you anyone would like to address to counsel. So is this public comment signing sheet? And some people think you just come to a meeting and sign in. I'm gonna go ahead and read these names, invite you to come forward. And if you haven't signed in, that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to speak. K? Lots of words for me. I'm gonna move on. Ben Johnson, do you wanna speak to us? Would you have me on have you wait? You're the proponent? Yeah. I am. Let's wait for your agenda. I can wait though that. Yeah. That's You you as the proponent are not, you may need to do two minutes and all that stuff. This is part of our discussion. Okay. Taylor Hart? Would like to talk about the Del Creek? Should I do that? Yeah. That yeah. Because we don't have a public hearing scheduled for tonight. We we might get yeah. So now is the perfect one. Sure of the Yeah. Put up. You're right on

My name is Taylor Hart. My address is 3510 South 550 US, Nibley. You need to take a moment to provide my opinion on the topic that will be discussed later in this meeting. The Dove Creek subdivision application is a request for an exemption. The exemption is to not require the developer to install path from the north most point of the Mount Vista Trail to the Apple Creek Trail. While the planning and zoning commission and the city planner both recommended no exemption to be allowed, meaning the trail must be installed or the division development, I believe the exemption should be able. If the trail in this location is to be required, I believe it would do significant damage to the small tree picket in that location. The trail installation plan calls for an eight foot wide trim. This will require quite a bit of greenery instant trees, and bushes to be removed. The development of the trail would likely include connecting into two culvert ends and completely enclosing the spring runoff canal that exists in that location. Any remaining greenery not removed or damaged from the trail installation would ultimately die because they would no longer have access to the water running through that canal. The purpose of the trail system is to allow residents to see and experience the natural beauty of New York. Installing the trail as the planning and zoning commission recommends in this particular location would damage the natural beauty that already exists. The developer has already agreed to provide titles that accomplish the community connectivity the trail network was intended to provide, including access to some of the most beautiful and widely enjoyed. For example, my family, I have four young boys, visit and enjoy the tree stand near the large canal almost every day. The trail locations already agreed to provide improved access to other parts of the community. For example, one of the most common destinations for individuals in this community is the Andor Park. The trail currently in the development of Plantation provided greatly improved access to the park with a connection to the Mount Vista Trail at the end of the new pole center for those who live west of there, and the sidewalk added along 450 West for those who live south. It is my opinion that the trail system proposed by the developer accomplished access natural beauty and community connectivity. I do not believe requiring additional transaction is being beneficial at the risk of being with or I support granting extension and not require the additional transaction.

Neil? So that'll be in the record for us to refer to later because we're we're a little bit out of work, but that's perfect. That's appreciate it. Danny Johnson?

Danny Johnson. 667 West 3430 South. First of all, I wanted to comment on the great job the city has done over the past year in providing a surplus in the budget. Congratulations for that. I thought it was wonderful when I heard that. Very good management of funds. And, also, thanks to the city council for voting to appropriate that money to capital projects. I think that'll be money variables.

So

thank you, all of you, for that. I also wanted to address the discussion that will happen on the economic blueprint. That was very interesting as I read through that to see that not only is Niddly growing at a faster pace than a lot of our communities, but we're also attracting very well educated, well employed people to our community. And I think that is a compliment to who we are today. And and I think people are coming. I know I came to Nibley because of what interest actually what it was and still is. And I think people are coming because of who we are today. And as I've heard discussions around this topic, sometimes I get a feeling that there's a negative connotation to being a bedroom community. I don't know if that's true or not. That's a feeling I get when we hear a discussion on it. But I think it's okay. Be proud of being a bedroom community. I think it's okay to to accept us, our identity and who we are and continue to find ways to manage funds very well like we've been doing, continue to provide good services to the public,

and be the best at who we are.

And I hope you'll consider that as you talk about the economic blueprint and the future planning work in the city. Thank you. Danny?

Excellent. Betsy Stromberg. Welcome.

Betty Stromberg. I live at 535 West 3500

South, and I also like to comment on the Del Creek subdivision. Not as well, but it's Taylor, so I'm proud of you.

So first of all, I just wanna say thanks to Memphis City. I know a lot of you hear the kids' events and neighborhoods, and they really just love this city each to the group that we're here in Richmond. So it's kinda hard to speak exactly what part of my comment is because then I haven't addressed it yet. But, basically, I live just south of this subdivision, and we moved here. We were so great about open space, and that's what I love so much about Cache Valley. I'm not from New York, but I grew up here, and we love the open areas. So Ben was so gracious to kinda work with us in amending his subdivision. Initially, he had it butting up to our property, but then after talking to him, he was willing to kinda change that a little bit and put it a little bit higher to give us some great space so we could have a buffer. I've spoken to many of my neighbors, and they all agree that that would be really great. It should be in a community

field. We have a chat.

I have a feeling I can't speak to those who haven't developed yet, but those that will be building would also have a buffer. Now with the I think it's amendment 11

or I don't know how to say it, but with the need to continue that trail,

a possibility would be to have to reconfigure this this development and push everything down and, thus, closing out the last space. So there were just really one open green space at the top and not at the bottom and then top down here. But, basically, I just love the idea, and we don't have to talk to once the idea of spreading out that green space because it gives us where that would be. I also love that there's still heat left open to be able to access the same area. It still continues the halfway. You can still make it from one area to the next, so it's Outlook Creek. And then along with what Taylor said, it keeps that green area that makes.

So thank you for your time. Excellent. Thank you, Betsy. And then I have a comment from my neighbor. I spoke to them about. I don't know if I should make that under.

Is yeah. Is it on the same topic, or is it yeah. And it's written? Uh-huh. You're welcome to read that, and welcome we'll get it in the record as well. So we'll give you another two minutes. Thank you.

She heard it right now. She's gonna have a lot more

here. Okay.

My name is Jessie Hatch, and my husband, Billy, and I've been to the Providence Of Nelly for the past thirteen years. We live at 505 West, serving five up in Nibley, and we have chosen to make this city our home because of its wonderful people and the dedicated members who work hard to build this community while listening to that to and advocating for the needs of its residents. I am writing for touring Booth Dove Creek development located in Northeast Subdivision. Over the past several months, I have worked closely with the developer and our fellow residents to develop a flat map and thought that properly balances the need for open, green, safe, and the developer's objectives and the interest of the existing neighborhood. We appreciate the collaboration that has taken place to arrive at a per at proposal that reflects these priorities. We We are concerned about a newly proposed trail extension. The revised alignment reduces the usable space for our homeowners on the north end of the development, and requiring the developer to construct the trail over the canal appears to place an unnecessary burden on the project. For these reasons, we respectfully ask the council to approve the flat map as a group that you proposed without the additional trail. We believe this plan represents a balanced solution that serves both the community and the developer while preserving the character and livability of the existing neighborhood. Thank you for your time and consideration and continued service.

K.

Okay. Do I have to speak to the council?

Buddy Smith. I should say so. I was the hero at Hertha. For while we canceled. Yeah. Hertha. Yeah. Hertha. Hertha. Yeah. People tell me to waste a lot of time coming to me. He says, I'm A little slow. I'm a slow learner. But I came here because Lisa and I wrote a letter about where we're living here. We live on 37 South. We sent the appointment. We sent the city council. And no one actually responded except for after the fact, after the last city council meeting, mayor Jacobson responded, which I really appreciated. But I thought it was gonna be brought up a little bit today to say, hey. I'm able to read it. It's just like no comments or, you know, I guess we didn't do a good enough job maybe with it or what. And I feel like I've been in a over, what, three times a week. We don't live in Italy, but we still live in the county. I am watching the land of the sheds going on here. There's a lot of developers, housing developers, Before you know it, I've learned in '10 about 8000 and sixties, and a developer came in and it doubled just like this. And then now it's 40,000 people. So that's basically thirty, forty years. That's probably what it could be is 40,000. And we've had thousands of land. That's my last year. And and there's no other any talk about preservation of any of the irrigated agricultural lands in in between and all I see is, you know, you can just see the mass coming out closer and closer and closer. And there's one of those out there that had large lots that we lived out there, but Then the development's gonna reduce some of how we're gonna be the. I mean, the developers are when they're thirty, twenty five to 30% profits, maybe. City wants the the the tax base. So it's all about, you know, monitor. I wanted to comment on the RM too, but I'll maybe come back for another day,

you know, when it comes up. K. Thank you, Frank. Thank you. We're I'm not gonna engage in a policy discussion. I do wanna make sure that the the record is clear. My response to your letter, I sent on May 4, not after our last council meeting, but on May 4. More contemporaneous with the letter that you sent to us. Yeah. K. And your letter is in the public record? It'll be in public record, and my response is sync with this phone.

Yeah. There's there's one one getting one month per time. Okay. Yes. I get very confused. I'll just give it a second. These are photos. They're marked in the back of what's on our property now, like, white based divers, eels, because we're hearing right now. So it's just pictures of what the annex area area is like, which we already done on our, you know, documents here. And so, anyway and plus the calendar here, 10 of the pictures are crowded in your annex area between. And I take a lot of pictures in that's all my favorite past month. And Thank you, Fred. And I'll follow the new comments, Bill.

See, we took it off our agenda, so it's you want you want to hear my comments. I I my response Lisa and bring.

Okay. Alright.

Anyone else care to speak to the council? K. Thank you all for coming. Thanks for the comments. And with that, let's move to planning commission report.

Yeah. So other than some items that are already on the agenda, The the planning commission and I'll discuss that at the time they they come up. The planning commission did discuss, at a workshop some changes to the sign regulations that will come forward at a future time. The state had had some requirements for political signs in particular, and that kinda triggered looking at the sign the sign code from that standpoint. But we felt like it's been quite a while since it's really we've we've done a pretty thorough review of the sign code. So we're we're gonna take a look at it with planning commission. We've, went went over some recommendations from staff of some things to look at, and they they the planning commission agreed that that we should, you know, bring forward some of those changes. So staff's gonna work on amendments, and you'll see that at a future meeting.

Yeah. It's a club. We think so.

Let's go staff report. This is where we're doing abbreviated staff reports so staff doesn't have to speak around until the end of the evening. So a little bit out of order Danny since she keeps going on, see what's going on. But

we I see Justin going like this. Yeah. I I think the only thing as I talked to Sam, they just wanted to bring up the chip and seal project on '13 and '12. As far as we're concerned, that's been pretty pretty smooth project. We have had a couple of chip windshields.

A little bit of oil on that car. But for the most part, it's been a really smooth project. I think we gotta get quality and a

job out of it. So we're pretty happy with

as far as staff goes, I think that's really all there's been to talk about.

Then let's dive into adoption of an economic blueprint. We've had help from the always wanna use Cherry. Thank you for coming tonight. Always wanna say governor's office economic development, and I know I'm one generation behind on names. So first, correct correct the name, and thank you for being here. And thank you for helping us with this project.

August online?

Yeah. Are you there, August? Yep. I'm here.

Can you hear me alright?

Yes, sir.

Great. I couldn't hear Sherry that well, so I don't know if she teed me up and it's my turn to go or or if that's where we're starting here.

Yeah. Go ahead and go. You know? Great.

K. I'll I'll share my screen really quickly here. Oh, it looks like I have to request screen screen sharing. Here. Let me

okay. There we go. Maybe? Yeah. It looks like it. It letting you?

Let's see.

Oh, you know what? I just got a new computer today. It's asking me to restart Zoom in order to scare my screen. Well, I I don't think I have to. Somebody else wants to share the document. The the changes are pretty sim pretty minimal from as it was presented in the first reading. There was a comment in the, first reading discussion specifically on page 16.

I'll wait till you have it pulled up.

Yeah. If you scroll down to page 16 for me okay. One more one more page. It's gonna be 16 as it's numbered, not 16 according to PDF. So that's all good. So if you zoom into the goal number one, strategy number one, product number one, there was some discussion around, this project. It originally didn't have the language around developers. It was just talking about landowners. So it so so we re we revised that to reflect the discussion to ensure that we were including engaging with developers as we think about the future of the town center concept. So the the new language reads, quote, engage with local landowners near the intersection of 2600 South And SR 165 and communicate with potential developers of the site to begin planning a future town center at that location. So, really, the there's just a couple more, words in there and communicate with potential developers. It's really all that's new from the first reading. Otherwise, I I I listened back to the recording and and didn't note any other revisions, and I didn't receive any additional revisions via email. So that's all I have to report in terms of changes. Happy to answer any additional questions or or or note any further revisions that the council may have for for me today.

Thank you, August. If you if you didn't tune in or weren't here for our last council meeting, we we spent substantial amount of time on this. So that was first reading, and now we're into second reading. And counsel is encouraged to start the discussion and ask Tavis to share any questions they have. May I have a motion here to approve?

A motion from Nick? Nick?

Nick? I'll second, mayor.

One of them first and then one of them seconded. Motion from Nick and second from Nick. Thanks, Mentor Labs. That's for approval of the economic blueprint. Discussion on that motion, please. Danny, I'll jump in. I I appreciate your comments. I really do. It echoes the first twenty years of my living in Nibley, but I will admit my my thoughts have changed. And I'm not arguing with you at proms, and I'll give you a chance to respond because I'm addressing you directly. I believe that Nibley City is a better community if we are a more complete community. It's I've been I was very proud to be a better community for twenty years, but when I started looking at what happens when the city stops growing, and I started thinking about the financial impact of not having developers build stuff for us, and now we have to maintain it. And if that's all on residential property tax,

I I get nervous about it.

I also think that a town center, if well done, and this this blueprint, I know you read it. Thank you. Gives us some aspirational kinds of things that create a third space for Nibley. I mean, I love bumping into people at the Maverick. I look forward to having that experience in a third space in Italy that's larger and and more vibrant, not to throw Maverick under the bus. But, mostly, I'm just getting gas there. And I I would love to to have a commercial component to what our city is. I I we've we've heard people talk about active transportation and trails. One of the hardest things to have active transportation is our in our town is destinations or lack of destinations. So we have parks, so we can bike to parks, so we can walk to parks. But wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to jump in our car to drive to Logan to get a loaf of bread that we could go to a a a local place and spend money in Nibley. 70% of the point of sale sales tax that our residents spend leaves our town. That money represents, if we could capture that, a potential 40% decrease in property tax rates. So that's back to the financial part. And I appreciate your comments. I absolutely do. I just I want us I think that a commercial component and economic development where we could work in Nibley, shop in Nibley, makes us a more complete town and that would make us even more proud to live in Nibley. And, Danny, because I addressed your comments, it's only fair that I give you a chance.

Okay. Sorry. Mhmm.

Yeah. And I think those are shared comments, Mayor. I think from my perspective, what we have to do is find a balance. Right? There there's two ways to control our future cost. One is what are what are we acquiring that we're going to have to maintain in the future, and how do we have a financially stated future? I would say I'm not against a certain amount of development. I know it's gonna develop. I think all of us know it's gonna develop. How do we keep the feel? People are coming here today because of how great it is to how do we keep that and still maintain a future that's sustainable economically and with the environment and all things that are wrapped into sustainable planning.

And I think part of that is being very conscious about

what are we inquiring as a city that we have to maintain, what services are we setting ourselves up for, how do we balance all of those things. And it's not an easy way. Yep. It it takes time and consideration.

Yeah. I I appreciate that. There's there's not a single project housing project, including multifamily housing, which is a new thing for us, that I don't appreciate, enjoy, and am proud to be a citizen of the same town that new people moving to our town. Yeah. It you're right. I mean, we've got a good thing going, and you're also right. We need to keep it going. Yeah. Agreed. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Anybody else? I I think this is gonna when we we're working on a master road plan. I'm not gonna talk about it tonight, but I believe this blueprint has very on a very tactical move for

the upcoming master role plan that will come to the council. So

what I had hoped for was let's be specific. Let's let's figure out how to make the the overarching goals turn into something real, and we'll see if the council agrees when we get to the master role plan about how how we design roads could implement what this plan is is going to do or what this blueprint is how people

I have a question to this. Very general question. I sit up here, and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do. As a city council member, when it comes to expand commercial activity, I would like there to be that balance as we're talking about. And I would just well, I can pinpoint several business that I would love for them to explore their lead. I feel not a place asking any time. From your city council, I don't know. Levi or Jonathan, I the next day, you're going on a lot of things. Should I actively be doing more than I just other than setback? Yeah. We should do that. I mean, should I be out trying to

to be active and trying to bring economic development here?

That's what I'm asked.

That's a great question. Maybe Sherry can answer this question. What what do we do as a community? So you're saying, MCO, if if if not, create with the blueprint. Right. You're ready to move to that direction. It it makes sense to me. So how do we get there? What yeah. What what's my role as a member of the city council?

Do I make phone calls? Do I need it knocked indoors? Do I need a call?

Merrill? I like audio first. Kinda talk about this a little bit last week because I feel the same way I have for you. I think that's kind of why we have these plans. Right? But if you get a goal four, I think that's where we come in. It's it's it's our job to make sure that this gets implemented, whether that means creating committees, whether that means hiring specialists, writing ordinances, then force subdiviners and developers to consider commercial. That's kind of the completion I've come to over the years is that that's where we need to legislate, but it doesn't keep us from doing some of those things you already mentioned about reaching out or offering to lead a committee or something I'm curious you have more to add that you've seen work well in opportunities?

I think that you're out and about and have the opportunity to discuss this with developers or you haven't already did, then please let us know. We do have a steering committee in place, and if there's some action that we didn't take on at least that happened, we wanna do that. So stay in communication with us, and then share us. Leave a like if it's appropriate. If you see an opportunity for NMWA and you want to market that and keep us in the loop, then please do that. August, is there more that you wanna add to that? I know we have a in place. I'll continue to work with what you say personally, and then, to attract these projects and bring them back to you as as needed for legislation. So, I guess, what more do you have to add to what comments do you have?

Yeah. Thank you, August. I I I think I mean, not not not to make excuses because this is a great question. I can ask you some. What what can I do? What can I do? We've we've made some really great attempts, but things haven't quite worked out. And maybe that's the way it goes. You know, we had a we had a community reinvestment area that held a ton of promise where we could put tax increment from that part of town back into infrastructure development to help build things that would make a a a place where people could work.

Finally, period. Yes, sir. Correct. Yeah.

I got invited to and this is an opportunity. Trying to figure out how to pull a trigger on it. A celebration. Justin and I went to a celebration. ZIG. Yeah. ZIG Manufacturing. Yep. They were receiving a a a Utah OSHA award for safety. It's a highly complex custom machining shop over by Malouf. And the president said, I would double this facility tomorrow if I could find the land instead of going to our Metropolitan neighborhood, which is where it needs expanding now. So those are the kinds of things, you know now we we don't own the land. With this thing I'm talking about with the road plan, it might be that we start buying some land and and, you know, getting ahead of the of the curve on some things. We'll wait to talk about that. But I think it's a matter of as as and as much as I have anticipated, it is we can just keep trying. We just keep going up to the plate between that. And when the opportunity comes, we're willing to to to push the button. That's just a bunch of more words. You mentioned, Sherry, last time that this blueprint, it can be the first step in a series of things that we can get help on to get this implemented. It can be. Resources.

In in phases for. There are grant opportunities available. I think the adoption of this plan would have potentially a a a a a location, or those funding opportunities through GoEd. And then you also have regional support. You have lots of supports in place already. It would be really helpful, and there'll be available steering committee. So we're happy to help and continue answering questions as they come up along the way. But we'll be here if it's worse to all of you as we look to help guide him for maybe future and help them out and interest in preserving his term in use here. You're you're right, Will.

Thank you, Sherry. I think the worst thing we can do is say, well, we've got the plan and put it on the shelf, and that's the end of it. So we need we need to pick it up and create it and say, okay. What's this telling us to do? Not just tonight, but at least once a month.

And and I'll add briefly that that's the exact intent here. We're gonna turn the, kind of the set of goals, strategies, and projects into a active, spreadsheet that Sherry kind of co owns with city staff and has a monthly or quarterly, whatever you all decide, interval meetings to say, what is the timeline in this? What's the priority on this? Who's the point person on this? And what support do you need to get this done? And so we hope to kinda provide that accountability and support to help make this a living document that's being used rather than just a PDF that sits on the shelf.

K. Are the dots counsel? Anyone opposed to voting? Seeing no opposition. Let's see. This is let let's call the roll on this. Will you do that for us, please, Cheryl?

In favor. In favor. In favor. In favor.

In favor.

Thank you. Five in favor and unopposed. Motion passes, and the blueprint is adopted. Sherry, August, thank you so much for helping us with this, and we look forward to continuing your efforts here. Thank you so much.

Thank you all.

Thanks.

Terrific. Okay. So we have removed eight and nine from the agenda that takes us to ten. This is first reading, so introductory chance for council to learn about what's being proposed with the Del Creek subdivision. And council can move faster, of course, than just frustrating, but this is the first time we've heard this. Levi, do you wanna and we have proponents. You guys you want Levi to start? You guys wanna start? We usually have Levi's argument give you guys give proponents a chance to speak. K.

Alright. So this this was considered by the planning commission last week. And, the planning commission, they they heard both the development agreement and the preliminary plat. So I'm not gonna go into all the detail that I that I did with the planning commission because the preliminary plat really is a function of of the the planning commission. They they have the approval authority for that, so they get into all the details of the, you know, the design of the subdivision if it meets all of the codes and ordinances. Really, why this development agreement is in front of the council today is because through development agreement, the applicant has requested a couple of, exceptions to Nibley City code. And that and because of that, it triggers the requirement that city council weigh in on it. And so long as we go through the same process as if we were changing those codes, the council can grant those those exceptions. And so there was a public hearing held at planning commission. It was considered you know, the same as if we were, you know, changing the code, but it would just apply, obviously, for this specific development if if approved. There are other provisions in in the development agreement as well. So you can, you know, you can definitely critique those. I'm not gonna go over the those other details and and or or or those other provisions in much detail tonight. For the most part, they're they're they're pretty standard. So but this is for a 14 lot open space subdivision at about 3450 South, 450 West in the R 2 zone. And just and just to keep in mind. Also, again, this is something the planning commission, already reviewed, but what what you see resembled here is what the open space subdivision code, the standards that were adopted prior to the last amendment that that you, the city council adopted because this was this was applied for before those were even discussed. And so everything here is really based on those older standards. All that said, city council isn't really reviewing whether or not the, it meets the code that's an administrative decision that the, the planning commission is already weighed in on. It's, it's really whether to grant this development agreement, which. Has these exceptions. So but I'll go I'll go over a little bit more detail just to give you that context. So these exceptions are that the developer is not required to provide a master plan trail between the West West border of the subdivision and Apple Creek sidewalk. I'll show kinda further where we're talking about and that the developer is allowed to dedicate a point four four acre parcel as open space despite there being a a requirement for a for a point five acre minimum. So I'll go into a little bit more

detail on that. Yeah. Tell me if I'm wrong.

The the council did recently amend the open space submission. Correct. But all of those changes were related to r two a.

No. There were there were there were several changes that were related to That effect. To that that would have affected this if if it were adopted before this came in. So, one probably the most significant is the requirement for variation in lot sizes. That that so that's that's a lot different in the code now compared to what it used to be. And that and this is really based on what was in the code previously. So just to orient you a little bit, so this is just south of the Apple Creek subdivision, and it also borders Mount the Mount Vista subdivision, both which is both to the west and to the south there. So the the trail that we're referencing that they're asking for an exception to the code that staff has recommended and the planning commission is is recommended that they provide is this this section here, you can see that kind of on on the

does this Tom. Oh,

what did I do?

We set up a winner, Tom. Yep. So the this section right here says pointer?

We got it together. Got it. Got it here.

So so this is this is that Apple Creek trail that connects into the pull pull the sack there. There's there's a little sidewalk there that connects in. This is Mountain Vista Trails, and there's a little stub that comes to this corner. So the the I'll show you on the next stream. The trail master plan shows, like, a connection in this in this vicinity here, and they're asking for an exception from that. The applicant will probably go into more detail, but there are there are some issues with grade changes that the you know, there's significant cost to that to providing that that trail, and that's kind of the the main justification that they've provided. The the second one also in a in a way relates to the the trail alignment. So you can see how this this trail meanders here to the south. And with that trail alignment, it leaves this point four four acre parcel. And if you and there's a couple of spots within the code that, required a half an acre for open space parcels, staff and the planning mission was. In support of this exception, though, for a couple of reasons. One is that really the only reason this is a point four four acre parcel is because of that trail meandering in that direction. There's a tree there's trees here, a tree stand and a canal corridor that goes through here. And and by meandering it in that area, they they can preserve that rather than, you know, probably having the pipe, the canal tear down all those trees. And so, you know, in the spirit of of the code, it it seemed appropriate to do that. Also there is other. Open space in the Apple Creek subdivision that through conservation easement was was recorded. So there is it's not really an island of of open space there, and in addition to the, you know, the other open space in this area. So that, you know, staff is in support of that exception as well as planning commission. Just a little more context. This is this is just a snip from the trail master plan. The act active transportation plan is that actually, the trail master plan. So you can see the connection here, along the border of of the two properties that shows that that trail connection into the Mount Vista subdivision. So you kinda see the utility it provides connect connecting that trail system and eventually, connecting over to the the east and then and then to the south, toward the where there's a trail stub currently at the cottages. And, actually, this this development, Johnson Johnson Lane subdivision. Also, there's a there's a short section trail there. So just trying to complete that that network of of trails in this area and and connecting to you know, connecting some of these dots here. Maybe a little bit more context. They are also required to provide a a trail connection from the cul de sac into the adjacent property, and that that also connects to the trails. And that is that's really required for another reason because it's a cul de sac. The for pedestrian connectivity, any anytime you build a cul de sac, it's required to have those trails, and you see that in a lot of the newer developments in Nibley just just to provide that pedestrian connectivity through the cul de sac. So I'm happy to provide more context if you'd like to, if you need to, for for the subdivision, But both staff's and planning commission's recommendation is to approve this ordinance, for this development agreement with the condition of removing term 11, which would allow for the omission of of that connection of trail that that was spoken about and instead require that trail and complete the connection from the northwest corner to the northeast corner of that property. And there's a few different ways they could do it. Staff isn't necessarily prescribing or neither is planning commission a a specific way of reconfiguring anything in the subdivision, but just to provide that that trail connection.

Yeah. So just so I'm clear, my information and staff recommend

to not build to the master plan No. To build to it. To build to it. To build to it. The the proponent has requested an exception to that to require you to We can hear from proponent.

Not automatic. Is that exactly

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I'll go to this if he wants to speak to.

My name is Ben Johnson. Thank you. The council have been playing out right here. The author was clearly people people showed up in their minutes. Yeah. So to to start off, the very first thing I did is I went ahead and approached the name of and I, you know, said, what would you guys find? I wanted to get the the input of the team meeting in this project because, you know, I I don't wanna have a fight with anybody. So if I can make everybody happy And so as Betsy said, we first had the whole development to push all the way to this order. And so they asked to move it north. We happily did that. Didn't see any problem with it to begin with. And now we're bumping up into this. I gave you they're on I understand. There's a couple different proposed plans. So they are proposing or the planning and missions that they wanna be displayed right here. This this is the connection they have. If we were to put this in, this is going to remove all trees and shrubbery across this entire earth and this because we have the pipe, the entire canal here and here. Remove every sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Just like that. That's that's where the connection goes to be. And the the paper I get for the number on the second one that says the new city map, mister Trailblan, is where it would be across Staten Island to Ireland. All community members love that area. It's beautiful. It's it's play there. And and so the reason we're asking for it is we it wants it, and we have a connection right here. And I can just that is a lot easier. But this will be open. There's nothing stopping UA from going through here in the future. The planning issues also proposed second second option, which is in there. I got it there. It shows a if that comes through here, that connects down here, that would require us to move the entire development back end to south, eliminate this resource. So this is in in my opinion, and all due respect to everybody, this is the most common sense plan we have. It it eliminates us taking out all of the greenery. It keeps the surrounding people who are gonna be most affected by this the happiest. We are working with everybody to come to an agreement on this, and this as as Levi, this that this is gonna require a lot of their work right through you that's even further and spot height this and then do a lot of their work this and let allow this. The other the other plan that I think is going off the proposal with the trailer to here, making us move everything all the way down to south. Is this thing has this green space to freeze, which has been approved already, but the person who is interested in in owning this land is willing to put a a flower bed there. We're we put pavement or flowers. That's that's what this is going to do. We do that and same thing I have. If if our purpose of the nature trails is to be in nature to we're in a Jackson hole. I mean, you know, again, but if that's the plan, I don't see the advantage of us putting this stadium trail here. People are able to walk through here. I understand that requires this, but the people walks to go on walk. If there was a there was a train station here or something that people had to go up to school, they had to go here, I understand we want this to wrap up, but these are nature walk walky trails. Enjoy nature. Don't tear down these struts trees. Don't hide a little. So that's where we're at with this project. Don't know. Any questions?

Any comments? Any concerns? Sorry. Can I just clarify something from staff's recommendation? We and I I I I would the planning commission agreed with staff on this as well. We didn't we're we're not recommending that this trail would need to move. So as far as this area Right. Sorry. Oh, I'll use my pointer. That this trip

Yeah. Let's see. Let's see here. I think I think I got it. I just clicked the wrong button.

That this trail would need to move and, you know, affect this the the area to the kinda to the northeast side of it, but the this trail would. So I I just wanna be clear on that that, you know, when you talk about the impact that this would have, piping and canal and moving these trees, that that wasn't a recommendation to move the the the existing plan canal, but just to add to it and and have this connection on the west side of it.

That but that's still you know, that's a change to the master plan. This this right here is a change to master plan already.

The master plan doesn't get down to Yeah. In inches. It says there's gonna be a trail through there. So it just needs to have it next between year and year, which we true is not in this area where it does conflict. This road this this wild trail is conflict. That's right. Yeah. And and that's how the plan reads. It's it's like, look, future trails and roads are are not down to its key dimensions. It's not a survey drawing.

Right. So you see you're agreeing that this that for all purpose of that, that accomplishes what the master plan says. We want to mention between this wildland and

this. No. I don't agree. Oh, you don't? To be frank about it, I mean, the the master plan says that across that northern open space, there should be a trip. It doesn't say whether it needs to be right on top of Prius or whether it can be bent Right. To not cut down Prius.

But the goal the goal is to con the goal is to connect this to this.

Through that through that property.

That that is through the property. That's sent right through the property. We're just moving it to reach this out.

Okay. Is there a next question? Yeah. So who who in this map right here, who owns the different parts of the space? This?

Who will? Yeah. Well, if Who

who would own it? Who who would own it? So

this they they are looking to purchase that. If they don't purchase that, Apple Creek has said they want to purchase that in the open space. Virtual Vista? Not Sorry. Excuse me. And then this is being looked at by some people data and Private. Private. This and EBIT to Bolivia on May.

And to the south, did you answer that? Sorry else. Yeah. So private

private owned division. Yeah. Private owned division. Signed up to this as a new purchase.

So the cul de sac trail isn't even on the master plan because that's on coordinates. Anytime you have a cul de sac, you have to give a path out of the cul de sac so their people don't have to walk all the way from the cul de sac out to whatever that North South Road is. So that that in my mind, that cul de sac trail connection is there for connectivity and ordinance Right. And not there and doesn't doesn't satisfy the master plan trail that

Was the master plan trail to just have the trail, or is it for connectivity is my my question.

It's to have a trail which provides pedestrian connectivity. I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Well,

you're saying this is hereby working. It's a mess. That's great. But the the spirit of these this this is to connect this walking path to over here. And I understand that the plan shows it's up here. So even though this is we're required to do this, we're just saying we are we are connecting this to the nature. This trail is also connected, so people are not restricted

from walking,

you know, connecting through. It's just this one little area that we're trying to avoid because if we put it in, either I mean, even if we just put this in, let's say, we

Yeah.

The middle middle button. The middle red button. Mhmm. Push the red button. Because even if we are to put if we put it in here, if we put this trail in here, we're going to rip out all these creating like this. And then you're gonna put a retaining wall here and we have to grade this. The engineer gave us a quote, around a 150,000 just for the retaining wall and grading. I have another quote from the I can't help that maintenance. But in our goal is to connect the paths, and our goal is to create a walking path. We've I believe we've fulfilled those duties, and we still will have this. This will still be here. And in talking to Sean Dustin, he said he donated land to the city on his side here with the intention of there being bought and bought. Is that on any lands?

He built a subdivision much like you were proposing that included open space. Like you said, you have it dedicated to the city. Was that never done? Yeah. And then so it it's gone both ways. We can have open space dedicated to the city, or we can have open space remain private. And I have to look at what Sean did. Is that I think it's on his lot still. I don't it's privately owned just like what you're The open space is private, but there's an easement across the south corner. So there's an easement kind of Right. And it's and the outer hasn't been reported.

Yeah. At least at least not the expanded easement hasn't been reported. Yeah. He hasn't gone through the subdivision yet.

So I'll I'll quit talking to Matt. Just let me be very clear about which part is it which part do you wanna get rid of? I don't want them. You got rid of all of it. Yeah.

We just wanna get rid of this. We just wanna connect this here. Okay. Because if we connect it if you connect it, it eliminates I'm not asking why. Oh, asking why. Yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

So in this in this map where the southern is moving all this and southern word parcel Mhmm. And the trail connects down. In this case, would the canal have to be piped, and then would you happen to have all that expense in grading and and retaining walls?

I I mean, I didn't have to be a month grading here, but we're we're still gonna have to probably pipe. We're still gonna probably have to pipe this section, which we're still removed. I'd imagine it would make us move quite a bit. I don't know if that's that's the comment, but they they try to remove a tree that Yeah. They removed the tree that was already over a pipe part of the canal and

or the what was They the city planted this tree, and they realized we even have it over a canal.

And so the the canal and the canal

canal is very, very strict. So we would most likely It's alright. The most likely time, see when it's or I at least working this, which we can remove all of our near end chart repair. And as Taylor said, you know, he sent you that, these these are gonna die. Even if we don't remove that, they're gonna die because we don't want our access.

We keep we keep saying we have to buy that. Yeah. Who who's telling you? They cannot come in. Yeah. You got that written that they

wanted. If if we I mean, if we didn't meet for a grad here, we put walking trail over it. Yes. They'll make it. You you I don't have that right, but I've spoken to them. It's not official. So but but that and just to the ease of being is starting with with Todd Simpson, he's going to the Jonathan Meadows. He wasn't touching the panel, and he worked for four years with, you know, company then making it I bet, you know, you will touch it now. Now people getting close to it. It took me four years to get through. So this is just from them. They have to be in writing, but if we we touch that, we're gonna fight it to

some extent.

I'm reaching out as she said. We're talking about connectivity. Mhmm. And so, like, you were in here. You have three sides.

You're saying you can you can still walk on the other end. You're talking about the selling line, making a which in a mutual. If you saw that, what did you call?

No. Because Scott's father didn't have to pay business under prior.

I mean, if you saw it, you would you would

technically walk across there. That would be true. You know? And and talking to Sean, I mean, I guess there's some debate here. Sean said he didn't dedicate it in the same sense that we're getting to Canadian. This is Greenlight. He donated it to the city. In fact. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not this is just from Sean directly. He was saying he wanted the walking path right here on this. And so he said he gave it to the city not in this normal sense of just saying, this is green space. He said, it's now in the ownership of the city is what Sean told me. Anyway, it's gonna be It's

yeah. It's it's an ease it's an ease, man, and it it hasn't been reported yet. So there there was an agreement, and part of the agreement that and Sean added this was was to dedicate a a trail easement along his property, a 10 I think 10 foot wide trail easement in this vicinity. He already has a a lot narrower easement, kind of a wedge shaped easement that was from the Apple Creek subdivision. But, that that subdivision hasn't hasn't received final approval. It hasn't been recorded, and there was no requirement to build a trail. He came in with basically a two lot subdivision, and it was determined that wouldn't be required for that because he he was just splitting that that lot. But

Right. So to be clear, there's there are easements where one person owns the land, but another entity has the right to use the land for a specific purse purpose. Yeah. Utility easements, trail easements, small easements, then then there's outright ownership of the building. So when Garrett says, if it's private property, nobody can walk on, that's true. Unless there's a a public grave report at each for a trade.

Well, then it's you know, I would suggest we just put an easement right here that allows you to walk through here because people already walked through these sorry? People are walking through this on this trail already. We've worked the property on both sides, but we could put a decent through here and just leave it as it is. If people walk through their current along with its own water, they can't. People are still use free to use that. But the undo burden of us putting this in, tracking the ecosystem. Right?

It's true.

I don't think you guys know I don't think my first can walk through there. I mean, it's not that you know, they're gonna walk through the same walk. Yeah.

I'm

just obviously we're we're just looking for I agree.

Going by that. And now for that trail, we'll be sure at least blow the backpack. It I mean, it's possible. It just depends on the side, you know, this side, but then

nobody wants a trail right in their backyard. And who wants to cut this off. I mean, even this is, you know, we've been like this.

This follow-up is. I mean, it's not very common to kind of offer, like, which we know. It's great.

Yeah. We're trying to I mean, we we we went, you know, trying to along with the same way. We don't care if each each way without

So this

so I just wanna see that not to make this comment ready, sir. It's like Okay. Yeah. I was gonna say that's great.

So this is my house here. The canal that runs from I believe it's down this and into this section when they subdivide here, they create it and require that making. I called the company to fence this piece right here and actually do it from here to here, and they require me to help them rewrite their bibles so that they so that they can do this because their bibles doesn't don't say anything about typing any law. So I just want to express to you that when when you introduce what can happen to be said, I've been in the group like this with them overloading, and they need to truly Utah State University with their fencing because of the where they work, and they were cutting them. So I talking with the Canal company just through this, I can almost guarantee that this will for sure be

So I I need to get a hold of this meeting. This is my turn. Good. Good. There's a difference between a public meeting and a public hearing. The public meeting is agenda. We list what we're gonna talk about. We invite people to come and watch the council do their work. There are also special events called public hearings where the public has a right to speak to the council. Now you can see how it could easily get out of hand if the council has a bunch of work to do as we do every meeting when we intermingle the idea of a public meeting and a public hearing. I can tell, and I and I I don't know where the council's headed on this, but I can see there's some things to sort out and, you know, maybe this first reading. And I promise you, even though it sounds like I'm shutting you down, I will put a public hearing on our next meeting. Okay? I'm not trying to I'm not trying to stop any of this discussion. I'm just trying to give the council a chance to do their work. Sure. So thanks for your understanding. Nathan? Yeah. I'll give you a motion to approve for first reading. We have a motion from Nathan.

Sorry. Let me clarify. Approved with staff recommendation for first reading, which is the moving the the exception.

K. We have a motion for Nathan. Is there a second, and then I'll repeat it. That's a motion

to approve for first screening, which should bring you back for second

with with the recommendation from staff and veterans.

Yeah. Double questions.

Where on and as

you mentioned, our job in the ops to interpret it to the following. I kinda disagree with that, but I think it's I mean,

for certain for certain for the same detail, I guess, if it relates to this, then then yes.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're getting from Yeah. Sensitive areas Could be long affected the. Are those can you identify those for us to drop in here?

Here on one. I'm just getting well

Yeah. Yeah. So there's

three there's three three lots that are proposed to be conservation logs. So this one here is pretty this one and then this one. And so that they'll have a conservation easement recorded on them.

And Are any of those designated as sensitive areas to definition for that? Well, I would

yeah. There so the sensitive areas, and this is this map actually includes the the sensitive areas, are the steep slopes that you which are in red here, and then, there's also a canal. So there's there's sensitive there's sent there's sensitive lands included. Yes.

Utility easements, there are none currently proposed in these open space areas other than the LAIP account. There's actually an overhead power line on the North Side. K?

Yeah. And there is

a utility radical there essentially.

Thank you.

Other question has in in our code, I think it's, like, our I, whatever. It talks about I don't know. That's not it. But there's a section where they have to meet against two or three of the weather related standards. Can you identify which ones planning and zoning felt this met or staff felt this met with its proposed did it had it proposed? Yeah.

I'm doing this from I'm doing this from memory a little bit, but contiguous land was one. Agricultural land was one. Pedestrian access, and a fourth was sent I think it was the sensitive lens or significant lens.

So

before second greeting, what I would like assignments or those in the room that care about this to do is we have to this is what we need to we have to interpret this law. It's like what ones we're gonna give the credentials for and which ones we think are good, as well as kind of sticking to the nature of the code you think you're trying to do. Right? Very much. Right? We just gotta balance with this. Maybe this trial we don't want to do this. So open space plan will set 25% of its border adjacent to a public cactus right of way, isn't it? Right? So we have to balance that with this new idea of shifting up and giving private space there, which also kind of is a thing we've gotta balance with. You have to be able to see the views from a public Right. Way. Right? I don't think we have any hopes of that road actually ever going through in the near future and connecting the one on the far east side right there. Yeah. A few minutes. Yeah. So there's there's a there's an open space to the south of that this part that is owned by Mount Vista, and there's kinda this law, and there's gonna be a gap between two rows essentially that is owned by one person, right, that already has a home pair. I'm not hopeful that that's ever gonna go through in the near future, but you guys might know more of me. So, essentially, we're saying that the only view access for that private space that's being proposed is from the trail to the west.

And so I've gotta balance whether or not that's meeting our code because to me, it's it's iffy. Right? There's there's currently a sidewalk that goes all the way to that. Because I connect all the way to Yeah. It it Yeah. So the sidewalk will connect.

So it's There is sidewalk inside.

Right. And maybe maybe I'll just explain another another condition that the plant planning commission approved is that so this area right here where because you see where the road ends, This isn't currently controlled by by the property owned by the developer, but one of the conditions of approval is that they provide a fee in lieu payment for the for the pavement. They already are providing the curb, gutter, and sidewalk, but they but they provide a fee in lieu to to have for a half road, right, which is what we would normally require for something like this.

The other one just bringing up was, right, the intent of the session on the open space subdivision is to encourage the creation and development of the parkable design open space land by a loss sizes. This lot, but there's not a ton of variety. And so that one's been, like, yeah, it's fine. Right? Because, again, we're trying to do what we do. And so I can tell we found out this was mostly trying to be private homes, open space. My like, I love the idea of the shift in a back. But now I understand what we're trying to do. Right? I think people wanna buffer the room, but that's not an intent of the open Space Subdivision. The open Space subdivision is for the public to benefit from that open space, even if it's just a view of something. Right? And so I think that's something we wrestle with a little bit. And then the other one so what I'm asking is read the code and help me feel good about the changes and adjustments for those who want the way that things they want them. Right? K. Yeah. It's twenty one ten point o two zero. Twenty one dot ten. So I I think it's counsel above your perspectives on that. We've got a balance we've got before we're finally here. Mhmm. 21Point10Point020.

And that's available on the website. And that's a good sit down and chat as well. Right?

I think that's it. That that's kind of the thing. I think I think that's what we need to grapple with here is I think we're trying to follow the intent of the open space subdivision. What's the best way

to do that

with the trail as well as the alignment of where the home scale, etcetera? Oh, you're right back here.

Hold on. I have a part. Okay.

The preliminary maintenance plan talked about agricultural uses for all the open space that's here. And, again, my my question came before I found out. So the idea is that these lots will be privately owned. You're hoping to sell them to either one entity or many entities to use them agriculturally.

Correct. Okay. Yeah. Approve.

Well, I should so it should be verified at least the Northeast. Southeast, annual state of green, obviously. But whether they buy it or the

Matt Vista Homeowner Association, they're also interested in buying those Right. But they.

Those that are interested in buying those lots, I also recommend you read the code to see what is and isn't allowed on that space so they feel uncomfortable when you wanna go to.

So may help me understand where you want to pick this up if it passes for first reading. Your your motion was to approve for first reading and to

eliminate

Correct. Item 11, which means keep the make sure two double maybe is being positive and keep. Correct. So is your intent that that's where we start with is item 11 not part of the second reading? Because that's not really a motion to amend As the bookkeeper, I've had a little bit of a boundary. Do you see my boundary catching up to you? Sorry. Just a sec.

Yeah. I think I think I think the intent was to to do the discussion forward so that we could start having that conversation one second meeting. So we could, in this discussion, decide to put a lemon on or or remove it. I just wanted to get this back. Okay.

I just I just need to know what what version we start with, Bob. Secondly, we have first reading passes. We don't have a motion to amend. We just have a a motion to approve first reading and and change means. Exactly. So what's what's the intent of promotion? What will be what what where will we start?

We will we will start with the agreements with number 11 removed, which is that they're they are required for the trade off command outside. I was just questioning here.

Just a sec. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna ask counsel to tell me exactly that that's where they wanna start by amending the motion that you have made to adopt first reading. It give me a motion for amendment to say that would be removed from the from the development agreement at this point so we know that it's not there when we pick this up on second reading. You can even just have motion as well. That was motion. That was my hand. That was two two removed. Okay. Yeah. Alright. I'm good. Yeah. The council agrees that that that is what we will be loading on.

Yeah. Actually, in tennis, everybody's very shallow written. Do you know how many do you mean how many sweaters being

talking about about breathing in winter sleeping or some some of this rather than

I think it I know it was a type of glass of water. He, you know, evaporation and we love these seal group. That's because David and Todd counts more on that one. He said, no. He wanted to open it. That was a fine. We have to screen vented so we don't have them.

Here's my idea saying, listen. This week for new year.

We used to, I guess, but there's a little bit more than just this development. Sean Dustin up north is a small subdivision he came through, and the council admitted his conservation. He's been adding a new lot, and he wants to relocate that canal. And in so doing, he's working with a canal company. And they're going back and forth right now on, if you're relocating it, you have to pipe it. He's he's still working through that. So regardless of this project, that canal might be pipe dead angry. And I'm not certain that the canal company can require full piping of an entire reach just to put a culvert crossing on. I don't know the legality of that or the ombudsman office can help with those sorts of decisions. The ombudsman's office, it our free attorneys that are state employees that help with those disputes. Yeah. Let's start with miss Hialeah. Or is this with as well? What miss Hialeah is Hors is no longer with you have a new city attorney. Yes. He can answer some issues like that. Excuse me. A new intern, city attorney for six months over time to replace mister York Orshin and mister.

Would you would you guys be willing to reach out and and if they look into that horsemen?

I certainly can. I gotta work with their their I'm an attorney as well. They're not I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Engineer. I can get a feel for what school model had. So far, it's it's been bad. Discussions, and he's right. General impression is that if you touch it, you're gonna have to play a bit. Tom Stimson did take four years to get his project through, but there's a lot more than just Canal work he was trying to work with. And he did have to bike along street because and a widening street and everything. So he didn't have to do it through his his property along the trail. So I think there's maybe we need a little bit more input from, you know, decisions based on that. Yeah.

Is it a Nibley Blacksmith for? It is. Other things for staff to look at between now and second reading?

Levi, I've got a question.

Go ahead, Nick. Yeah.

There's been some discussion about just selling off some of these some of this extra space that would be considered open space for this development to a a third party, private party. Is Levi, in in is it part of our open space subdivision? Is there anywhere codified that's that limits the use for for in or I guess what the question would be, like, in order for it to maintain open space to qualify for this subdivision, is there any sort of limitation on future use of of said open space in terms of improvements or anything for it to then would would it to be disqualified as open space? Or or would we have to, like, include that in some sort of a, like, an agreement to make sure that even though this property might sell, this is what has to remain to be still considered open space?

Yeah. So what will be recorded on the property is a conservation easement. That'll that'll happen at the time of a final plat for for those three three parcels, and so they will be limited for what, you know, what they're what they can be used for. It's spelled out pretty well in the code, what they can and can't do. And so so yeah. What if they're sold, that that's gonna be with the property. It'll be noted both on the plat as well as in a conservation easement document that'll point to, you know, the code. So, yeah, does that answer your question, Nick?

Yes. Thank you. Appreciate it.

So the answer is yes. It's specified in the code. It it's it's not it's triggered by becoming a conservation law. It's not triggered by the sale of property. Right. Right. Doesn't matter. It becomes a conservation law, and it's governed by what is allowed to be done. Yeah. So once the subdivision

is official, once it's recorded, those lots are then concert then have conservation easements that restrict what they can and can't do. Right. And that's where Nate recommended it.

If you're thinking about buying it, you should look at the code and see what you would be allowed to do there. You can't put a garage on, for example. A barn? Okay. But, anyway, read the code.

And for clarification, the Northeast Open Space is what's being the next area of the city. Correct?

No. No. It would just be the the really, the trail corridor.

Or what's the whole thing? Or acres there.

It's being. It's that would be private.

It's it creates a conservation lot of point four four acres privately held, which is less than point five acres that the parks even if it's private.

Right. And it it does that mostly because of this alignment of the trail.

What is that? Below the trail? Like

Oh, so there is

a stormwater basin Okay. Thank you. Right there. Okay. Yeah. That that area. Belongs to a lot to the west? That part of the lot to the west, the city is not accepting ownership of stormwater, basically. No. Although I should mention this, Tom Tom,

there is a provision in our code that that allows the city to take ownership of any open space as part of this process. So although that hasn't been discussed, wasn't recommended by the planning commission, that is allowable. Staff doesn't recommend it. Just looking at it, it's not on a parks master plan or adjacent to any city park or anything like that. So there's really other than the trail, there's no reason to to do that, but I I I should mention that because that is in the code, and the city has done that before.

I I don't think the city should have. A Stonewater master

management plan for this. Yeah. It's just mentioned that they have to. Correct? So in the agreement, it requests the stormwater. It's it's a post construction BMP agreement, basically, and governs what they have to do. They have to do a yearly inspection. They have to maintain it in its designed state, and they have to make sure it's operational as designed. So for two entities and Best management practice. So Thank you. Sorry about that. I think there was an angry comment saying today.

Ben, when you've been talking to an engineer about possibilities and what it would cost, but it is is that working with civil solutions and a single engineer? Or

Yeah. Civil solutions. Yeah. And I've done a 100% of the pieces around.

Oh, so maybe I even I actually walked the site this afternoon. I'll just so I have fresh eyes on it. I estimate there's about 80 foot of really steep area that wouldn't be that trail. The 10% that 10% runny slope on it, that would be the trail slope as you walk. So you can't go up 45 degrees. Right? You're supposed to stay 10% on the trail. So I I estimate there's about 80 foot of retaining wall that would have to be installed along just to get through that really steep section and maintain that 10% slope. Cost estimates, if you deal with a landscape block, it's maybe $50 a foot. If you do a concrete retaining wall, it's double that and a $100 a foot. So

eighty eighty foot of gradient, there would be a 160 foot of retaining wall. So

A 160,000 between 80 and $160,000. Okay. I'll mention also that there was about $80,000 in city funds up in over previous years. They were kinda set aside for the possibility of a trail through here. I don't know if council has options if they wanna resurrect some of that in the budget. It didn't get into the issue budget. Just nothing really been happening. So it it Jessica talked about budget and reallocating funds somewhere. It it has been planned in previous budgets.

K. Lots to think about.

Nina? I don't know. 10 in the agreement talks about the developer or the project owner association shall be responsible for the upkeep where most of this is planned to go private, whether it's homeowner or not so that you'd invest in name or even as well at this time?

I mean, I think it I think it just opens up the possibility between now and when it gets recorded, turns over, that it could go either to private or HOA. I think I think it just opens up the possibility of both, and I don't I don't know if staff has an opinion of that being a problem.

If staff will get 10 and just decide if they want to add language in there about the private open space ownership rather than the words developer or agent. I think that makes sense. About common areas. Yeah. Yeah. Knowing what we know about what the Internet about space. Okay.

Yeah. We've we've certainly had successful, in my opinion, successful confirmation subdivisions with private contributions once.

Yeah. We could we could probably clear that up.

I think there's part of the 11

that says that you have to do the 12, then it says except for. So I'm I'm not imposing or if we follow just the master plan. I think that was what your recommendation was. That'll I mean understand. Right. Right. It it talks about you have to put in the master all master plan trails except for this one. Right. I didn't understand his recommendation and planning time close. You still have to plan the trails. Just

Yeah. I mean, I guess you could keep that in either way. It's gonna be required, but you could keep that little part in that says that it's required. I I mean, I don't I don't think I think just striking it would do the same thing. Yep.

K. There's there'll be a more.

Just the 12 or

13. Is maintenance include, like, winter maintenance, like that?

K. Y'all ready to vote on the motion to adopt the birth three? Any objection? Seeing none, those in favor of adoption for first reading, striking condition or section 11 from the development agreement, Please say aye to move this to secretary. Aye, hon.

Aye.

K. Five in favor, none opposed. So that's things to look at. Okay. So question on that then. So that means that

you guys are gonna review it now, but there has to be a connection in the trail is what you're saying now.

If if second reading is adopted as the first reading was Mhmm. There would have to be a trail, but the whole discussion will happen again at second preview.

Okay. So there's still the potential of this of of there not being a trail. Is that what you're saying? Yes. Okay. Just a quick

So so there is a chance.

Here, but I will. Case that we need a second meeting is planned to change the whole plan. Right? So I just wanna confirm there's still a chance. And if there's only a 1% chance, then cancel the second meeting and let me go back to the run, save me a month. Yeah.

Yeah. I think the intent of me making a motion I did is I think that there should be a trail on our side, and we still need to figure out when and where it looks. But we got some things to figure that out.

K. Well, then we then then there's no point in reevaluating because we have to change the plan now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just move the lockdowns out or we're gonna put the thing across. Like, that's the plan, and and so you're gonna be able to reevaluate that plan. Do you want to follow them then? I I was trying to figure out the process.

We're unfortunately in a situation where we have all approved this by development group. Right. And we have to be informed with them. K. That. And so we might be able to see, again, the approval of the development agreement, give some guidance on what the plan has a bunch of words. Mhmm. It's a little fortunately, I I wish I could tell you.

I'm just saying, so if you say you say, alright. The the trail has to has to go through for sure. So we go back, and then do I start this whole process again and go through scanning, and then they approve or disprove, and then it's up to you? No.

It I think it depends. Right? Yeah. It depends if there's a substantial

if if if it's substantially different from

If it substantially changes, it might you might have to beat the current OpenSpace requirements.

Right. Rather than the older the older code requirements.

Right. So so eliminating one then that might be construed as the the change

if you move it all over the South. Eliminating. Eliminating one of them.

That might be a substantial amount of change that you have to go back and you might have to meet your teams. Yeah. So Yeah. Sorry. Oops. Yeah. But we we have to check with the attorney interns.

If if you're able in this direction. I don't mean that you could you know, I'm telling the trail still improve is what you get through. It's not important, but it's most likely weird.

You're meeting.

Sure. Correct. That that would be mostly. Would you wanna be with me every time? Someone who else when I was out there, I had some some Sure. Yeah. No. Probably. I you know, I was just it's eighty two months of time. Let's let's scratch it. Let's let's drill. And we start a process right now. Okay. You have some money in getting me. Right? You know? Nothing like to do. We're gonna tear out the trees.

I I would I'm gonna encourage you to take Tom up on its offer and not be at a point of either have to redesign a whole subdivision. If you make me put the trail in, I have to start all over. Instead, I'd say maybe there's something in between that isn't a complete redesign of the whole subdivision that should still work to the trail. And Tom Tom may be a great guy to talk to. I'm all for it. K. But sounds like Churchill, you know.

Not a fine decision.

I mean, let's Process to this. That that looks like it.

Yeah. I would just say I didn't make any decision whatsoever about the following term.

I have a problem. I'm I'm and I I think this just says, let's need more time to cross process through this. I think it's valued.

So maybe you're early. Yeah. I'm I'm gone next week.

K. Alright. Yeah. Take your time, everyone.

Yeah.

No. We'll take a recess

and come back to the public hearing.

Yep. I'm here.

K. Thank you, Nick. Thanks for

hanging in there. Let's move to a public hearing. This would lead up to a second reading on our residential solicitation, ducts tooth ornaments. Anyone I mean, we had a good discussion with Levi. Are you gonna introduce this course?

Or do I I just wanted to point out that it was it was already, I guess, given an introduction in first reading with Talon in the last meeting, but it that this solicitation ordinance would replace the current ordinance and provide quite a bit more detail in in the code. I I will say that staff's recommendation is that this be continued because, it still needs to receive legal review. So we'll just leave it at that. But but there's several different elements of this that I'm not prepared to present on. I'm not sure if there's any others on the staff that wanna wanna do that. But, I mean, I'm I'm happy to pull it up and and and get through that. But but in the next reading, there will be some likely some changes after the attorney's review.

Okay.

I think it's appropriate to go ahead with public hearing. I'm I'm sure that if anyone wants to speak to this, then I hope they do. You know, we've had a chance to review the ordinance. I'm mildly speaking to you because you're the only person here in this past weekend. Yes. Go on. I may not I don't know what I'm talking about you, but I'm really talking to

You got two?

Oh, I maybe maybe Greg wants to weigh in.

We we talk. I do have a I have a report, but maybe not.

Okay. Fantastic, Dan. We will have a public hearing. And if you have questions, we'll try to answer them, and we want to hear from you. So, yeah, so with your permission, we will open the public hearing on the changes to the solicitation ordinance. So please come forward. Thank you.

My name is a big girl. And my thoughts I get a lot of splinters, and I really am not. I like being. I like being concretized. And we're interacting, like, didn't work. We we get to anyway, and then then I stood at the point. I wish I was in here in Italy. I wish I knew that they I wish there was some kind of biblical representation that they have talked to you, like a name badge or some kind of something so that I I will be politely the one to have gone through the process of being coming, you know, making sure they're doing it in a legal way. And so if I knew that they had gone for all the burden of a way to be here legally, then I'm more than happy to be this to them. But I had no idea when they just showed up with my first step if they have actually registered with the city. So that is part of one suggestion is that I can know that they have registered with the city and if they're up and up and something. They're really good. So that would be really

Well, I just say it as a matter of information. I haven't asked the same question. They haven't they haven't been wearing a badge or anything, and I just asked, do you have a license to whatever it's called, like, Internet Door to Door. And they have all been able to produce the document, but I had to ask. So what you're saying is let's don't make you ask for it. Right? Yeah. You know?

You can learn from people. You know? It's something for me, but also we're never but that would really you know? And I get Windows.

Forget Windows. Windows are a big thing now. Right? Okay. Yeah. Well, that's great. Thank you for that. Greg, do you want to weigh in on door to door solicitation? Sure. Excellent.

Great. And so on for Circle. What's interesting about this is

mom and her Circle just had an interaction the other night, and it

in a very 1,000 good view, they did announce the company they were with, but she showed concern to me because this particular company would not leave, and they eventually asked for entrance into the home. They said that they were very parched, and they would like a drink of water. And the gentleman suggested that the roof was next to go on with the roof being done only about three or two. So

having

a type of very visible or having something that a 78 year old lady who would be welcome in saving this latest interaction. It's okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Greg.

Well, we're two for two. If you wanna go again, well, let us go again. Well, you have to come to the mic. Okay. Okay. Thank you. With that, counsel, we'll close the public connection and turn it to you. Levi has suggested. We can have as much as a a discussion as you would like. Those are great suggestions about the requirement to wear a badge. I don't think that's in the graph in place of coordinates, is it?

Is it the Yeah. I've done I think yeah.

They do. And I'm but, I mean, that nuance of whether you actually have to see it. So what I'm reading in in this code I'm sorry. I I wasn't wasn't the one that dropped this. I have reviewed it, but it does say that a solicitor shall immediately disclose to the consumer during any face to face solicitation. This is in, sorry, 5Point01Point110. Solicitation shall immediately disclose to the consumer during any face to face solicitation by verbal means or through use of a badge and an information flyer, the name of the solicitor, name and address of entity, purpose of the solicitor's contact. So it kinda says or, but we do we have required the badge, I believe, and we always have. I mean, we we

we oh,

when when we issue a solicitor's license license, we give them the badge, and that's what we direct is that they wear it and intend to solicit. But I I I have to look at a specific language of

And maybe some folks knocking on your door are not registered and not wearing a badge because they're not registered. And and that leads us to part of it. The difficulty of this ordinance is enforcement. Right. And this new proposed ordinance says, if it says no soliciting, they can't knock on your door. But the piece is right back to enforce them. Well, what are you gonna do? Call the cops? Says no soliciting on my door. They knock on my door. I'll call someone yes or not answer the door. So Forsman, I think, is one of the main

Yeah. It's a class b misdemeanor. Anything in this, just just just so you know, as far as I mean, when you talk about enforcing penalties, but any violation of any of these provisions could be could be a class b misdemeanor.

Mayor, may I ask a question?

Please.

Levi and staff's research of this, obviously, you're not here to answer for I think Talon was responsible for writing up most of this. That's correct. I'm just looking at five eight 01:40 on the time of day restrictions. I wasn't sure if if Talon just was kinda looking what other cities were doing or or or kinda if there was some sort of foresight into just that 9PM deadline. To me, that just seems still pretty late. And I was just curious, you know, if we were to make change that to something closer, like, 7PM, was there some research behind the the twelve hour window? Do we feel like that'd be an an issue with not allowing these people to do their business with with enough time? Just curious about anyone's thoughts on that.

Yeah. I I don't I don't know if I wanna comment exactly where that came from because I I don't know. But I I think I know I know you researched a lot of different codes, so I think it did come from some precedent there.

Yeah. Personally, I I would I would be okay with even restricting that to a little bit earlier, personally, but that might be me.

Except gone. Every third Thursday night.

Okay. I think it would be appropriate certainly to get legal review on this. We we have to have that. They say getting the public hearing. Might suggest that council not add not tell me what to do for continuation that should be appropriate.

May I ask Erica? We're wishing you continue

Okay. Motion from Garrett. Second from Randy. Thank you for our continuation. Things to get done, obviously, we've we've talked about legal review. We'll get that. We talked about counsel coming back and revisiting

hours, allowing for solicitation.

I don't want to sound critical. I think it would be nice if this new ordinance was fewer words. You know? It'd be it'd be nice if our ordinance was clear, direct, and easy to understand. I'm not saying this is hard to understand. It's just it's a little bit bigger document than than I was than than I'm hoping. I'm not issuing an assignment to rewrite it. Maybe I should do it myself. Maybe we should ask an attorney to make it. And give me attorney, you could. You know, we could we could Not checked. The new attorney the new insurance are the bad guy. By the way It's usually not their yeah. Rewrite this one. Yeah. They're usually not good at making it simple.

It's definitely legally what's written already. But yeah.

Any other things to do between

now and let me pick this up again? Okay. Anyone opposed to voting on continuous? It's not. So those in favor of the motion, if you continue, please say aye. Aye.

Aye.

K. Five in favor, non post. That's what we'll do. K. Let's talk about test or dwelling units. First reading, some changes on ADUs. Levi, have you got that? Yeah.

Yeah. And this one was heard by the planning commission. There was there was a public hearing as well. There weren't any public comments, but I'll I'll give an overview of what's being proposed. So couple couple of things here. Firstly, the the state recently made it a requirement that all cities over 5,000 in population allow detached accessory dwelling units with with a number of standards. The City Of Nibley already allows, detached accessory dwelling units since 2020, in in line with the modern income housing plan that was adopted then and and still is. Still is. But there are there are a few updates needed to be in compliance with state code. One is lowering the minimum lot square footage, and the the state's minimum is 11,000 square feet. The the state's prescribed minimum to cities, and ours is 12,000. So lowering that by a thousand square feet. And then also adding a process for allowance for converting existing accessory structures to ADUs. This is one that I wouldn't say that we wouldn't allow currently, but just in reading state code, there's the the way that it's the way that it's written is that if the existing accessory structure meets the setback requirements of an accessory structure, not of an ADU, which ADUs are a little bit more strict in some areas, then we should allow the ADU there. So that's that's also baked into this this ordinance. In addition to this, you know, while we have had this open, there are a couple of other changes that that are being recommended. One is that the clarify the water and sewer impact fees. And and Justin and Amy did some work on this one as well. So there's there's this the the way it's currently written in the code is that if you connect your water and sewer to the the current residence, you don't add a new connection, then you get assessed half the rate of a multifamily dwelling. Well, what's being proposed, what's being recommended is that that is limited to the sewer and water impact fee, but that the remaining impact fees are assessed at the full rate of a multifamily dwelling. So that that's what's being proposed. Maybe if you get if you wanna get into that, Justin would probably be a good one to to get into that discussion, but that that's what's being proposed in here. And then removing the requirement for notification to abutting property. So there there's a there's a requirement that with accessory dwelling unit, zoning clearances, now this is these are administratively approved by staff. And there's currently a requirement that for budding properties, they receive a notice, and we wait fourteen days for them to, reply. This is kind of a peculiar requirement. I think it was put into place out of caution when allowing the ADUs six years ago. And in general, doesn't doesn't seem appropriate, considering that it's administrative decision. They if they meet all the requirements, then, you know, staff has to approve it. And and, really, all it does is delay it by two weeks. That's that's pretty much what what it does. I mean, I I guess I guess those properties find out that their neighbor's gonna have a a structure back there. But we don't do that for any other application. I mean, we don't do it if they're building a 4,000 foot shed or anything else like that, or even or a new house or, you know, anything like that. If it's allowed, it's allowed. So anyway, that staff staff's recommending and and planning which is recommending to remove that. And then there's also this restriction on 25% of the coverage of the rear yard. And just in looking at that, looking at already that there's limitations on the square footage of the lot, the setbacks, it it just didn't seem necessary, that restriction. If it can fit within the setbacks and it can and and the lots already, you know, at least a quarter of an acre, then that and and the size of the ADU is limited to 12 no more than 1,200 square feet, that it's being recommended to remove that restriction, which honestly hasn't really come into play with any ADUs anyway in reviewing them. So staff's recommendation is approval of this ordinance. Planning commission, they recommended approving it, but changing the minimum lawn size, lowering the limit minimum lawn from 11,000 square feet to 10,000 square feet. A little little bit higher bar than the state, they thought. That would that was more reasonable. So and and I'll just mention that staff isn't opposed to planning commission's recommendation. They just just wanted to note that that difference. And I I will mention that I would recommend that this only be passed for first reading tonight. I actually was just in a training of on this one. The League of Seasons and Towns did a training. I've I've been to a few on this one, but this was something new that came out of this. There there's this provision in our code that says that you can't have mobile homes as as an ADU. I've interpreted that the way that the state have defined mobile homes, which is more stringent than what most people might think of a mobile home, and that's really kinda old mobile homes. Those would that were created before, I think it's, like, nineteen seventy three, seventy four, sometime in that time frame when they didn't their codes weren't in place. Nevertheless, they mentioned in this training that we probably ought to remove that kind of restriction. We have to be careful about that that kind of restriction on on mobile homes that the state that they intend the the state intended on requiring cities to allow things like modular ADUs when they when they adopted this was what was came out of that training. So and there's already provisions in state code that prohibits cities really from looking at manufactured and modular homes differently than stick built homes as long as they meet the building code. And so we might wanna think about just removing that provision as well. But we can look at it further. We can talk to our attorney about it. This is just something I think it was yesterday I had that training, and I so I I just felt like at least it's something to look at. Unless you wanna just strike it. If if if if you feel like let's just strike that, then I think that takes care of that concern.

Is there a distinction between a modular home and a mobile home?

There is. But I think someone reading the code would have to do quite a bit of research to to get there. And and the thing with the mobile home issue is if it didn't meet the building code, it wouldn't get approved anyway, I mean, at least from the way I interpret it. So any any ADU is gonna have to be building code. And so I don't really think it serves much purpose other than maybe that that provision, other than maybe discouraging someone that might think, oh, I wanna build a modular or a manufactured home as a as an ADU, or I wanna put one in in my on my property, and I can't do it because it says there's no mobile homes. Yeah. Does that make sense? Like, even if even if

Yeah. There's stuff different. And then the Yeah.

How does there's two manufacturing

in both of them? All all I know is in this training, they did they did the the specific reference that came out was exactly the way it's worded in ours that mobile homes aren't allowed, and they and and at least the person giving the training said, yeah. You might wanna be careful about putting that in your code. So that's where it kinda gave me pause.

I mean, mobile home has wheels, probably not on a foundation. We don't allow home homes anywhere at Himmley in terms of of of of resident right now, I mean, there was a proposal that had standing. It didn't go through, and then we changed the code to get rid of mobile home parks. Home parks.

But we do have to allow manufactured housing

everywhere. And I make a very, very clear distinction in my mind between a mobile home and a manufacturer. I think it's a wonderful way to build a house in a controlled environment where it's not raining and workers aren't walking through the mud and because you move it modularly to or bought items, I think that's a fantastic idea, and it needs all the building codes and everything else. I think that's great. But somehow that's different than a mobile home that is on wheels and not on a foundation. Yeah. So

Can we just Look. What binds that in mobile that I think it's all on a Foundation fixed to the ground is not allowed?

So that makes that definition Yeah. Permanent foundation. I mean, I think it's already in there. I think I think that that's already in the code. I'd have to double check the language. But I guess what I would what I would recommend is if you don't want to completely remove it, then just to pass it for first reading, and and I can have a conversation with our attorney on this if he thinks if he agrees with, you know, what I heard in this training that that maybe we ought to pull that out or or modify that that section.

Yeah.

Go ahead. I don't I don't know.

Well, I think the question is just a couple months ago and how we talked about it. Clear. There was part of the known staff having

horses. I mean, I have grown up That was our months ago. Mhmm. For impact fees? Yeah. Yeah. They were. So we said Yes. They're not creating a new meter.

They're maintaining. If you're creating a meter, then they have to pay. However, if you're adding a meter, then they have to pay, but if you're connecting to the existing ones, you're waiting.

That is the way I understood. 50 of that stuff.

Maybe not. We were

whatever we decided. But I don't think we talked about

impact fees not related to meters, like road impact fee, like parking fee, and I think that's what you're getting at.

That's what's in the current code is that it it limits it to those two impact fees. Not or sorry. Not the current code, but the proposed code. The current code just says impact fees.

So that's that's

So you problem. You declined. I'm sure. Get about that.

We changed it.

Yeah. Go back to. Sure. The

The great great man, He's not understanding. Okay.

Yeah. It it was amended recently. It was. And I guess there's been a little bit of confusion administering it with with staff.

Well That's fair. Right?

Well, actually There was a little more nuance in that. And and I think think at the end of the day, whatever the council wants to do with this, I think move forward just just to make it clear. And that and that was the this is just the recommendation of staff and planning commission the way it's currently written. But if you but if you prefer to keep it the way it is or to change it a different way, then then just I think I think that's fully, you know, the council's decisions.

Impact fee for.

Who parks, like, 6,600?

Yeah. Yeah. If you give me a minute. Yeah. And that'd be again to what we set her for. But it's our intent. It's all.

Yeah. Our intent is just to not make an ADU the same as the talent. That was what started this whole

discussion. I'm really struggling with the whole Connectimeter, not the Connectimeter. I'll have to go do some digging into the minutes.

Yeah. I just wanna give a few minutes to come back. Yeah. I'll I'll It's probably been a year.

Yep. 2026.

2026.

Oh, more recent than I thought. Because time's not flying.

It's added to vehicles.

You put hard copies on you? Yeah. Minutes?

Oh, he did it. Just

Yeah. We will double check those minutes and make sure that this ordinance before it was decided

in discussion. Okay. Thank you. That's all I had. Starting point at least. Yeah. Yeah. My question just for saying to them, which I remember from the said that we had both here. He has one acquired.

Planning and zoning had had one Okay. For the, yeah, for the ordinance, right, for the ordinance change. Because of the land use. Right? Yeah. It's a land it's in the land use ordinance.

That's all I have to question because I I was confused with the member that I had. Okay.

But well, I apologize for your memory better than mine, apparently. But we'll double check. Wanna make sure that it's the same. K. Any other I guess, yes, I don't I shouldn't say other things to talk about for a second reading. I don't know what what most of this could be.

Manny?

No. Okay. I'm just asking. Tell me.

Nathan, I'll give you a motion to approve the first reading. Yeah. A motion from Nathan

with the suggestion of smaller lot and staff. I think it's a I think it's a Just 10, can you? I'll second that.

Okay. So the motion is to modify the recommendation to accept the recommendation from the planning commission and adopt the first reading. So it's 10,000 square foot lot required. And we had a motion for maintenance and to compare. Now we've discussed that. The 25% backyard thing seems confusing to people. And when we talk about accessory accessory buildings, not accessory dwellings, accessory buildings, they say, why is that? You know? So are are these these changes are limited to removing the 25 per no more than 25% of the rear yard or just ADUs, but keeping it on accessory buildings.

Yeah. This I mean, this is just limited ADUs. I I I don't necessarily think that it should stay with the other one, but this ordinance is just limited day to use.

Well, I like to plan information and say, well, what the heck? Why can't you put accessory buildings in your whole backyard? And I actually think 25% for accessory buildings is about what you should be limited to in your backyard because I have to have a limit.

I I mean, there's this is the thing. There there already is a I don't know what things There there there are limits, although, I guess, there aren't on larger lots. There are limits to square footage anyway for accessory buildings, and and there's setback requirements and things. But although, I guess, if it's a very large lot, then there aren't. So

I need to do the right prescription.

You can probably find it a lot. 25% is a lot more than you think. I always I always look at this when I review these, and 25% is a lot more than you think. It nobody nobody approaches it. It it yeah. Yeah. Well but still not with the not with the restrictions. 1,200 square feet. I mean, their yard is

probably 5,000. I I understand. Yeah. Any other thoughts? Anyone opposed to voting on first greeting? We'll pick this up with the planning commission's recommendation if this passes on square footage. Seeing no objection. Those in favor of advancing this. To second reading, please say aye. Aye. K. That's five in oh, anyone opposed? Five in favor, not opposed. K. Thanks. I'm still waiting for APUs to get popular.

We keep trying. Making me both, though. We've done a lot of little tweaks and amendments.

Before we get has anyone seen the homes for sale? I think it's it's in there's I I just saw a home for sale that has an ADU already in it. I think it's in Nibley Oh, what's the subdivision? Levi, would you know?

Yeah. So there's internal ADUs, several of the Nibley Farms and Nibley Meadows. I know there were seven in Nibley Farms. I'm not sure. There's a few in Nibley Meadows as well. They're built into the Mhmm.

In the years.

K. Let's move on to 1200 West traffic study results. Tom, have you got that for us? I do. Thank you.

There's a new clicker. I need to make sure I can work it. Let's see if it works. I think it's a

right, Tom.

Okay. So the these international studies along twelve hour west, it all started with the resolution. It was 2537 back in 01/20/2016. So in the spirit of government network, I'm here seven months later. And in that resolution, we we our council directed staff to remove the islands at the intersections along. They allocated $25,000 for a warrant study or an intersection studies at two locations between 980 South and at Nibley Park Avenue. There was mention of some signs and other devices that would delineate bike paths from vehicle conflicts, possible rumble strips at the center lane, and shortly Jersey barriers at intersections to allow further or additional intersections distance. So SAB didn't perform the the intersection studies, and we got this work done for $15,000. And that just before the fiscal year end, we purchased a bunch of deflectors that are gonna be mounted along the side of the barriers on the the vehicle side that help with the darkness and to help guide and keep vehicles in the lane. And so it just increases the visibility of the. That left about 20,000 a little less than $20,000, and there really wasn't enough to do the rumble strips nor the Jersey barriers. And and I'll get into a little bit on intersection side distance and the evaluations the engineers do. So the the Warren study was performed by Kim and Warren with with participation with me, and it took a few iterations to get in what we've done. It's, like, about three or it was almost six weeks. Person I was working with had some conflicts and some family basements. Anyway, these are the two intersections, Lower Kitchens, newly marked Avenue with Meadow Lane and 1200 West and 29 East South. What the report did was analyze the intersection site distance,

school crosswalk zones, and reduced speed school zone,

adult crossing guard requirements, and for always stops at those two locations. So I'll go through each one of those. So intersection dot sight distance. But what happens there, if you're looking at I don't know how much detail you want. So if you want me to get into the inch technical work and things, that's what I'm prepared to do. But if you would like me to accelerate this, sorry for the pun, we can just move on. So intersection based site distance looks at three conditions. You have left turn from stop, right turn from stop, and then left turn from the major rotor. And it's it's a calculation based on the velocity that you're traveling and the time gap, which is specified by what's what sort of vehicle it is. So there's the equation. If you're interested, each one of those conditions were valued in the study. And every one of those conditions were bound to meet the METCD and ASHTO requirements for intersection sets. Or, excuse me, intersections inside of distance. Any questions that we want to make with Yep. And roughly in '35 miles of road, it's 325 miles of rigidity. 335 feet for a stop turning stop turning ride, 420 something feet, stop turning left. Takes a little longer to cross that by hitting the throttle to come from stop to turn left, so it's a lot longer intersection side of this. Any questions there? Anyway, through the evaluation, they were all balanced. It'll be Nashville and yeah. How do we take it? Oh, here's the the picture. Sorry. You can't see it. So the way that's measured I'm gonna get into the weeds here. It's measured 14 and a half feet from the travel lane, and it's measured at a height of three and a half feet above the ground. So that's how so the the barriers were considered. Fences were considered in this intersection site. This is trees and everything else. Everything was visually verified on-site.

So 14 and a half feet from the travel runway is where relative to the stop sign? Okay. So I'll use the

the thing right here. So 14 and a half feet from the travel light would be you can see the bulb still there, but it would be roughly where the barrier is in line with the barrier. Right. 14 and a half feet back from that, and that's how that's measured. So if

I think the way the angles work, if someone has actually stopped at the stop sign, which is back more than 14 and a half feet from the travel lane, the distance would be reduced. So

k. So it's state law to stop behind the stop bar. And we have stop bars along every intersection of twelve hour West. Not at the tipsy, but they're there.

So they're under tipsy open. To

get to the travel lane, it's a yield condition Yeah. Coming through the cross a lot Yeah. Through the bike lane and then getting to that when you're 14 and a half feet behind. Yeah. I'm I'm not arguing with the 14 and a half feet. Okay. That actually increases

the distance that that required side testings, and I think that's appropriate because you stop I mean, if if you're driving it according to state law, you stop at the stop sign and make sure there's no bikes. Make sure there's no pedestrians. You're then you start into the main intersecting road and really start paying attention. You should have already, but really start paying attention to vehicle traffic.

Correct. And I'll I'll just bring out City Hall parking lot. You stop on the inside. Make sure it's clear, and then you yield through there. Yeah. Yield pedestrians and bicycles, and you're also going through another bike lane. So that intersection side distance really does start to get almost to the bike lane. So Yep. And we we just need to drive them this way. Thanks for the questions and the dialogue. So The next thing we did was look at was the school crosswalk zone. And there's a there's a flowchart right out of the manual uniform traffic control devices. And what in in a nutshell, you make sure you you count pedestrians, school age pedestrians, forty five minutes before school starts and fifteen minutes after school starts, and then fifteen minutes before school gets out and forty five minutes after school gets out. So you're you're collecting data on pedestrians there. And if it has 10 or more and the speed limit is 30 miles and it it there's this flowchart. If it meets all these conditions, then you establish a school crosswalk and it's on a SNAP plan. So a SNAP plan is a safe neighborhood access plan. It's basically a safe routes to school. The the school principals, they develop it. They update it every year, and they're supposed to include city, staff, and law enforcement, and the community councils as well. So So if it's not on a snap plan, then it doesn't qualify for school cross crossing zone. And I wanna clarify what a school school crosswalk is. It's basically the high visibility or the the high visibility crossing. So the I wanna say it's longitudinal striping, and it's that is reserved strictly for schools. Not supposed to put that anywhere else. And then it includes all the school payment markings, the preemptive signing, all that thing. So that that's that's what our school goes on. So one is, and it it includes all four legs of an intersection. So to qualify for that, it's the 10 students. It's the speeds. It they do the counts, and you can't have another crosswalk within 600 feet of these either. So you just walk your way through this flowchart, and

you look at everything you're doing, like, an engineer.

So each one of those was was all evaluated. So Meadow Lake and Unity Park Avenue, there was 25 pedestrians. 15 of them were school age, and the ADT, which is the average daily traffic load, is 2,789. And but it's not on the SNAP plan, so it does not warrant school crosswalks on. So even though it met the 10 kids and the ADT met the 500 vehicles and such, it doesn't hold like it's not on SnapChat.

So that requires the schools updating their SnapChat?

Yes. If if they want that, it's school crosswalks on. The neck the other one would was Heritage Elementary School at 1200 was 2980. There was 30 pedestrians, 19 of them were school aged. There was 3,000 over 3,000 EDT. It does warrant for a school crosswalks on that if it's on a snap. And I'll get there there'll be some recommendations a little bit later. Any questions so far? K. Now reduce schools the reduced school speed zone is when you drive along, you see the two flashing yellow lights, 20 miles an hour. So this is these are this this area that was evaluated in both of those locations too. It's a little more complicated in in the evaluation. It's gotta be for an elementary school. If it's not, it doesn't warrant. If it is, slow it down to 20 miles per hour. So I can get into the details of this. It's basically an an analysis of the pedestrian volume and demand from the pedestrians. I the 85 percentile speed. So it's not only the posted speed. You're actually measuring to the eighty fifth percentile through analysis and then the gap between traveling vehicles. So you may only have 3,000 vehicles per day, but if a thousand of them are within this one hour period that you're measuring, that's gonna have have a very small gap so that it affects that as does the number of children and things. So all of these were collect all the data was collected and it was analyzed. And then you go in and you have to score it. And to qualify in a in a rural area, the rural area is the population of 10,000 or less, and you're supposed to be isolated. It's it's like think of Benson where there's nothing around it. Nibley doesn't quite be that isolated area, but we are isolated by the highway. We're isolated by a S R 165 on one side, eighty nine ninety one. So I've I've worked with peers, and they do agree. I actually have a and then the peer letter from other transportation engineers that say, we do need that qualification even though we're not quite isolated. We're still using that error. But once we hit that 10,000 people, this is what I would point out, we're close. It actually our scoring has to go higher. She needs to actually more students crossing during that time. More of her ankles crowded valley in that period of time. So we're right on the cusp right now of not being able to qualify for these reduced school speed zones in the near future because our population is at about 9,300. So that's why I brought this up and I highlighted it at urban versus rural definition. And to qualify, we just just to put numbers to it, you need to have 12 points for the rural, 16 points for the the urban, and our intersections both scored eight to those two locations. So there's quite a bit of more traffic needed before these reduced school speeds. I was at those two locations that are needed. K. So the traffic speeds, pedestrian activity being available, crossing opportunities do not meet the state criteria for reduced school speeds. Alright. Next thing we did was look for adult crossing guards. Again, METCD or the manual of uniform traffic control devices guides the the allowance or the requirement for for crossing guards. The premise of an adult crossing guard is where you have vehicles that you need to create these gaps artificially. So if vehicles going by, it's just not enough time for kids to safely cross the the the intersection. And so when I say that, think wide intersections take more time. So you need more gap there. So narrow intersection, so narrow streets, really helps with the safety of children as well. So but anyway, where we have, like, 3200 South where you're trying to go where you're trying to expand big gear, 60 foot of of asphalt, it makes sense that crossing guards patients. But maybe the same amount of school kids and the same number of vehicles on a 22 foot wide intersection, they might not qualify just because the the gap time is different trying to cross shorter distances than than the larger ones. So it again, I kinda mentioned that the general premise is just to artificially create those cached cloud safe crossing. And then, again, here's my flowchart. Basically, it says, is it for an electric school? Is the reduced school speed zone? If it's not, is the crosswalk at a roundabout or traffic signal that has opposed to speed limit of 30 miles an hour? No. It doesn't warrant, but it is optional. And then if it does meet all these other conditions, then an adult school crossing guard is warrant. So many of the crossing guards we have in Italy, I believe, are just optional. When you have them at a stop sign, doesn't make sense because there's already that gap, and it's infinite at a stop sign. It's just kind of a safety measure an extra extra safety measure that Nibley provides at certain locations that people want. So for the hour's fence, the crossing guard was 14,000 a year. 6. 6,000? 6,000? So we we can double quote. According to my math, we can, like, twice as many of them. Yeah. And then the big one, the other the other portion of the study was out of war with all big stops. And to do a war with all big stops, these five conditions were evaluated. The crash of circuits and those intersections, the sight distance, the you can use a stop sign to transition from a signal from a or an uncontrolled stop or an uncontrolled intersection to a signal. There's an eight hour volume. There's other factors, and we can get into those. So if you're actually experienced at both locations, there's there's not really a crash. I suggest always stop. There's three total crashes, two one angle crash, and that's all three of both of those combined. So I so crash experience doesn't warrant that we already talked about intersection site distance. Intersection site distance is met in all three of those other conditions. B q and whatever this and we don't have signal, so we're not transitioning to a signal. So it didn't work in that case. And then the eight hour volume. So the eight hour volume, what you're looking at next is the combined vehicle volume, but actually, and it that's almost 300 units in an hour of any one any hour of eight hour period when I would. We're not even here. And so you can buy more vehicle, bicycle, and then if you want, entering the intersection with Minor Street, there's 200 units per hour or any for each of those eight hour periods, then you would qualify for it. We didn't come close on those. So and then it it's a higher speed. You get your unit set to 70% on those. So in a nutshell, when you get an intersection, it so why is it why is it the always and then other factors that were looked at were the need to get rolled up to in turn conflicts where you have two equal roads from each side coming in. So let's say you had two thirty two hundred souths and you had 3,000 cars coming north and south and 3,000 cars coming east and west. When when you're equal like that, that's another warrant for a stop sign. We don't have any of those intersections along this quarter. And then we're pedestrian bicycle mode support installation of always stop. And when we counted those, there was 30 in the one and less on the others. In conclusion, either of those intersections qualifies for the always stop. Any questions so far? Yes?

So I mean, it's, like, Logan, there's a lot older neighborhoods thinking typically of, like, the one around Adams neighborhood Adams Elementary neighborhood. And there's a lot of places where there's well, there are few forward stops, it seems like. I guess my question really is that the forward stop neighborhood and a two way stop in terms of, like, does a two way stop happen follow all of these same criteria?

Or is it different? It is slightly different. Be careful what I say. So you're allowed to just kinda, as a community, determine which roads you want through travel and which ones you'd like to stop. So for example, 10th West. It's been chosen by the community that 10th West is going to be a a minor major collector, and you'd like any crossing traffic from the east and west to stops. You you can do that. It it's supposed to have, like, 6,000 cars to do that. Otherwise, it's supposed to be uncontrolled, so no stop signs, no yield signs at all. 6,000 on the through road or the cross street? It it's the through road. The through road. Six and no nowhere in Nibley has 6,000. But it's it's not uncommon for a community to just put the stop signs on the wider road, entry in the major The two way stop. The two way stop. But the four way stuff so I'll make mention that four way stuff. If if you go through this and you just put them where they're not encrypted, that is a deliberate act by a community, and and the community can be held by that. So it it's not good practice to put them where they're not it's it's often ultimately done just the two way traffic of can we stop? But, again, the conclusion, need neither of those intersections met. So here's kind of a summary of the findings. We looked at the crosswalk zone. So the afternoon at 12 West, 2980, they met the crosswalk zone. The crossing guard was optional at that location, and the site distances were all met. So I did I do have some recommendations if you'd like. So recommendations from staff were installed. School crosswalk is under the Heritage Parkway Crossing. And to be able to do that, we're gonna continue working with principal Kirk. And we've already started the conversations. We've started down the path of establishing a a snap plan. So it's maybe it's solved for the summer, but that is on our list to do. So and then consider other treatments where treatment alternatives enhance build visibility of pedestrians. That could be lighting additional lighting. It could be rapid reflection. We're just gonna keep monitoring that and look for other enhancements to help the visibility of of pedestrians. And then for the heritage elementary, I suggest instead of and I don't know if I'm gonna get a crew start for this, but let's just route the students around the students to the roundabout to cross where there's already an adult crossing guard. Now I measured it out. It's the exact same distance from 2980 along going down to the roundabout and over to the elementary school. It's slightly longer to get to the middle school, but having those crossing guards there already, it it gets it could help them. Consider other treatment alternatives as well. And then there was one line where I don't know if the middle school and the high schoolers are coming out earlier than well, they are coming out earlier than. One morning, I was driving along, and I did not even see this kid was on he he just ran across, and there was two other ones behind him. It's just too dark. So I just put a work request in. I wanna get some cost estimate to install a new light on the west side of that intersection just to help the the visibility there. If we can reroute or reroute them to the roundabout, that would help things as well. And I think there's a bus stop just on the East Side Of 298. And then we'd like to continue to monitor each intersection to just make sure that the warrant doesn't change from based on the extremes and the views. So this is kind of the this is a screenshot of Heritage Elementary's Snap School plan. So you can see 2090 is showing going all the way along and then the backside to get to the the school. It also shows it coming down. Hyperglow, so we keep them on West Side of well, west down to the roundabout where there's a crossing there already, and then we'll get them to to school there.

Yes. You go back one slide. One? Yep. Here you go. So sorry. The first bullet point installed, school crosswalk at Heritage Parkway. Mhmm. Is that Nibley Park Avenue?

Nibley Park Avenue. Yes. I apologize. Can you change that? No. That that is.

I was just but not necessarily the crossing guard. Not a crossing guard. Now

again, crossing guards are always they're optional. Right? They don't want. It it'd be my recommendation that we take the one that's at the old 12 R S and relocate her to the this new intersection because it's a three way stop control. So there's infinite gap. There's really not a necessity for the crosswalk, numeric crosswalk, whatever. So it it wouldn't cost the city anymore, but if we just kinda get a different mentality then and and it might it might take an an intersection treatment. Maybe we put some balls to narrow so there's no right turns instead instead of having or stacking three cars, one going north and one turning left and one turning to the right. Maybe we just make it the same lane. So you have to go right or left from one lane instead of having car stacked there? I I think that could do a lot for that north lane and that three wing intersection. You said the additional visibility.

Are there requirements for, like, I noticed today,

one of the roundabouts that went through, there was a key coming through, but

it, like, started flashing. So I need to stop because somebody was crossing because it was flashing. And then he came across the red ring around the bell. Is that something that has to be worked, or is that something you can just decide to do for a CT

measure or? No. So those are some of the treatments that can be considered. So I have an opinion on those. I like to keep those at mid block crossings and around the balance because you just kinda get calloused to everything that's going on. You this side and that side, and you just stop stop paying attention after a certain period of time. That's why it was on the roundabout. What's that? That's why I today was on a roundabout in probably because yeah. So we have them on both of our roundabouts. So they're on all four legs of the roundabouts. But and then then we also have there's a new one along with the log groups for the the Frisbee Golf Course, if you've seen that one. Yep. And then we just book one in here this year down by the. So those are those are great locations to enhance the visibility where people aren't expecting the best case, but we really need to send them messages that crosswalks, they have the priority, and it seems to be opposite in Utah where, hey. That guy that kid just went out in a crosswalk without looking. Like, and that happens is they have the right of way. We we need to train ourselves. So Big lines all the way. You have to wait till we get all the way out of the intersection. Then it's a recent law change guess, within the last five years, yes, if it has those vertical bars that I mentioned for the school crossroads. You can't enter that crosswalk if there's a pedestrian anywhere in there. The other ones that aren't marked that way, you won't have to yield when they're coming into your quadrant. Just the observations you talk to Thomas, I guess, is I've noticed the school itself is preferring when I see any of them travel to go down to the new Blasher rather than use the intersection. Mhmm. So as you discussed, I've sent route. It's just something to be aware of. And that's seen, like, teachers intentionally, you know, walking them down there rather than using perception. That's a great observation. So I I did my own counts. It was previous to Kimmy Warren, but there was 30 approximately 30 kids that I saw coming from the school in that direction. And then it's split. They crossed there's 22 of them across to the south right at the old 1,200. And half of those, 11 of them, continued down the trail to that big block crossing that you're referring to. The other one stayed along the South South side of what is it? Put it near his apartment. Park. Park Avenue. And then half of them were on the other side of the and then half of those ones on the north ended up going further north, and the first intersection will flow across all of those or better lanes. That's what we call it that time. So there's really no a further crossing. No. Mhmm. So so if if we had a crossing guard at that location and relocate the one, we haven't put it that way. She could help to do her. I mean, if so, it's a couple of.

Yes. Thank you,

I mean, really, this is this is a lot of work, and I appreciate, you know, recommendation, your approval of this right on January 29 to have the study done. So I don't have many more students. I mean, any more kids going, you know, to these schools. The middle school, elementary school. But The reality is I think that I I would love it for I don't like anybody who crosses to health outside of Stonewords because this is dangerous because you got a lot of them. And so I would love if no kids cross faster than going to school. I I think it's a great recommendation. Just go out with 35. You say, I agree with that. So then who called them is they're all exiting at the back of the school.

And with the middle school, they're getting exited at the back of the middle school. To cut across because it's it's a lot shorter if you ask to the back of the school to come in. And so I think the reality is I think they're still gonna come to that intersection, and now we doubled it. Not much double. We're probably at another 30%

of students. I didn't cross it with the middle school.

And so the recommendation is is not much.

And I and I just wonder,

I was only from. We don't wanna be a reactionary way from the worst case scenario. I just can be a lot of kids coming, especially when it gets dark. I'm asking that. They're gonna be lost there, I felt like, because

what used to take a lot of kids from a bus to South Cache is now just gonna be kids walking.

And I have a hard time leaving. They're gonna go all the way down to a few 100 and cross over there.

And we're still good, and so I don't know if doing little is a good idea. And I and you can probably see when I'm coming from. Yeah. Yeah. These are just. Yeah. I wouldn't even flash in yellow. Just maybe hit the button, splash in yellow, and it can go across with with that. It doesn't want drivers to

go to the kids.

And it's not saying it's. It's not saying it's it's for

just kids, but if you're gonna have a boss there, I just worry worry that someone's gonna get hurt there.

Really, can you ask do you have some little concerns with Teddi on the same route that we've heard from Teddi? Do you know who to say it? Right? Because it's a it's a major road. Yeah. But have you heard that at all? No. No. I don't I don't know. What do you think? I mean, I

I have. I have. You use that.

Yeah. I mean, that's 46. Go ahead. So then you have to heard of any Middle school changes, though. Yeah. This middle school has some of our kids. So I just

I mean, if if they can be such a a school on Word with Lewis and no one has the backside to get out beside streets or something. I mean, it doesn't have to happen. They're very close to that.

We talked to them many, many times about

existing issues with the school, and they believe that having that back access

and greatly increases their safety because they are taught to have multiple routes out of the school for Yeah. And it makes sense.

So I I just bring up the concern that you're gonna cross wealth, and I just want something to happen. Just make it better.

Good question. Do middle schools have SNAP plans or just elementary schools?

Parts that I know is elementary schools. It doesn't mean that you can't have crossing yards or in middle school.

And I believe it's one Spring Creek. I think that's still allowed

them to dig a little deeper. But and I I might I may be wrong in middle school. Like, I've I've always focused on middle school. So they have The school will have a sidewalk to eight now. So right? On my side, the the middle school will have a sidewalk right where it goes to eight plus. They just burned that, I think, this one. Yes. And where that road now is gonna be, cars on the backside. It's not talking about. Like, I I just I don't wanna limit your concern to just downgrade. Right? Like, if that route is unconcerned, then with the that route, not just the one that you're Yeah. Hang on. Let's get the call. So, Lars, if you're watching what's going on in the region or south, either Just finished at Riverside about the moon. Thirty in the south side of Thursday. Maybe Meadows finished Thursday. And that's just one missing piece right around eleven hundred west. We just finished that up a couple of weeks ago. We got that done, and then that left one remaining piece at at dot place just east of the Ramban on the South side. And we just we negotiated with the Hawk Hollow and install that. So we had complete sidewalk on the South side. We're 1500%

beyond

all the way to 900 West where we have a current cross. So we're looking at impossible changes on how the kids are gonna cross at that intersection as well. So we don't know what is that look like in the end, but kinda get a feel from the crossing guard. So what do you feel about maybe just keeping the kids on the North instead of having Christ. And he's laying the yeah. Awesome. My favorite things I've read. Oh, so Mhmm. My favorite things to read since being city council's have it all looked down.

Yeah. Is it the data collection that cost 15,000? Is it the PE at the end of the consultant's name? Do you have a PE at the end of your name too as does Justin what what where does the expense come from?

So there was two people out there for a full day, and they had to travel from Salt Lake. And then just digging through everything that I just showed you.

So we're doing the research on on the manual. Yeah. The the reduced boost. So the next one would be half price.

Use tools fees on that. That would change. Took me a long time to do a lot of data and process. It's hard to collect that data in. Just no way to look at it. So I'm talking about what we paid to the consultant and not what we paid you. We got a That was the cheapest one. What we paid you. That wasn't that that one that $50,000 was the cheapest one. The next one, I believe, was in the over 20. Got it for a few deal. Yeah. Right. I wanna say thanks to counsel to you because these are difficult as staff because I have a bad feeling, and and I can do these. No one believes me. I mean, it it it's much more received much better received by having people that are that's what they do every day, this transportation stuff. I I did take that was my exam when I when I got a professional license. It was in transportation. But these guys, they they focus on that every day. I'm all on doing development stuff, so water, sewer, things like that. So having experts there is really helpful to just kinda make sure we're getting the right answer, and it gives comfort to those that doubt, I guess. So A little better comfort. Yeah. It's it's not just comfort. It's liability

Mhmm. To have to have someone else look at it. I wanna can I I started just I like I like the discussion about flashing lights for pedestrian cars outside of the men? How I am more attentive to a flashing light than just a crosswalk. Somehow, we need to help people learn that a kid in a crosswalk without a flashing light has just as much right away as a kid in a crosswalk with a flashlight. I have people. I had a nonresident that immediately sent me his dash cam on both west. And he said, look. This kid crossed in front of me, and it's a good thing I was paying attention and didn't hit it. I had it stopped. And the dash cam showed that it's not correct. He didn't have to stop. He had to slow down. But he said it would have been pretty bad for his for him and his parents if I hit it. It's like, yeah. It would have been pretty bad for you too. Right? And, I mean, he this this person actually followed the kid home and confronted his parents about educating his parents, his parents who was an 88 kid, about not stepping into the road at a crosswalk. And somehow, you need to get to I mean, so so I'm worried that flashing lights to create the impression that and I'm not arguing. I'm I'm a 100% with you about keeping people safe. But somehow people think that flashing yellow light creates the right of way for the pedestrian, and therefore, if flashing yellow light isn't there, the pedestrian doesn't have the right of way. And if you have any suggestions, I don't know, it's just gonna take enough lawsuits or enough something something. Because other communities are very aware of I mean, you go to some other communities and step into the road in a crosswalk and people are stopping.

Right. And I do think this is going to expand north. We're gonna be phase three and four. Storage goes in. There's others, you know, Zaria, just home. There are about dozen homes going in just north of that. This this flow of traffic is gonna increase by both pedestrian and by and by vehicles. And so this won't this won't end the conversation. It's gonna continue to come up because they're both going to embrace and the concern will boost. The concern will also up. So, I mean, this won't be our first ex this won't be our last experience with this inter these intersections and a lot of kids cross to meet these two schools. So I just I'll just if we need more patience and say, you know what? We need more we need more students crossing. We'll need more cars to warrant some actual changes. I just love that we're talking about it. We're discussing it. We want to keep everyone safe. So if there's no recommendation to do something, then maybe we can see how the school year goes. We'll continue.

I don't know. And and think about head west while we're people. Right. I think that in other

So I have a suggestion on that. I think one of the problems is, you know, who's trained on these kids for their parents instead of professional. And they're supposed to have somebody else's want. I mean, I mean, everybody else's case surely have any of those hour on their medicals. How long do you get on? My kid does.

He's waiting for his last hour.

I'm just saying.

I'm just saying. You know, instructors specialize in this to teach this. It's fair that I guarantee

parents are like, what we had in that. Yeah. I don't know about that. Now we have a partner's teaching bad habits, instructors that they might need to have the break. But

I think that contributes to start with this, you know, trade.

Tom, one question on reflectors on the Jersey barriers. Are we going the whole length of those or only, like, turns or intersections or and I don't I don't have an opinion experience.

I believe they're going at least from 30 to 100 as well.

Believe I I have to check with Steve. Thirty two hundred south to Thirty two hundred south.

6. Seventy six hundred. Okay. Yeah. Those two in the two roundabouts. I'd have to verify with Steve if he went beyond the the 2200. Okay. I don't know that for sure. It's curious.

And you mentioned something about Jersey barriers. We talked about the intersections. You know?

I'm gonna file on the January 29 approval.

Yeah. We're talking about the intersections, having that Which is reduced higher.

Yeah. So we did do some We did some. Yeah. We we did the transition once. So they're they're 15 feet long of transition. They go down from about a foot to and slowed up to those. So I think but I think the intent of the ordinance was to look at something a little bit more substantive going back a little more. Back. Was there was that I mean, you're he wrote that. We had I don't remember. We did check that out, sir. We're satisfied with that Google proposal that we booked for there or, I mean, it was I mean, technically by May. Here. So Yeah. Yeah. John. Came running. Yeah. About counting on this. We we wanted to do that. We can send the accounting. How's it money to them? Yeah. For sure. Yes. Yeah. If if I may,

the accounts go as far as the true of the money that we had, and we feel like we've done that. And to go anything beyond, like, the rumble strips and all these intersections, we'll definitely have to talk about budget and Okay. And then maybe budget into those doing.

That's good. That's what the council does.

Okay.

Since we've got it up, the sidewalk being finished on the south side between 8th and middle school. There's one law that that that go all the way through. Yeah. I don't remember. I'll I'll look on it directly. But, essentially, the end of newly where it's called, New Plymouth. Meadows. There's the property that isn't developed. Did that is that slated to be done or we're waiting? Yep. It happened so fast. You didn't even notice. Oh, I'm sorry. I remember that. Then we moved in. Tomorrow is the The

the curb in there. We today, they just finished the curb. They're rocking the part here.

K. Any other questions? Tom, thank you. Alright. Then that'll take us to council reports.

Randy? Nothing. Thank you, Eric.

Just a couple of things.

I brought in the last four of them. I can't remember if somebody gave me a date. We need to wait for it. We're making an amendment to the budget so we can add a code review

since we had some over the funds.

I mean, and then we'll be able to pay more and cover

view and we'll leave the year. So we're gonna we stated that we're both meeting to do for Marty to help

kind of that motion going and moving as the I need to talk to Justin. So Justin, really, but so we everything you're saying is that we hit about

because our resolution count for that, so we're having fireworks. Then the mayor decided. Wait. We need a discussion about this. We had to talk about the LCT, which compared to them. They had to came with us. I mean, governor state of emergency.

What's his name? The one near Canada. Right? He

did a great job of explaining that. The triggers of consumer pain will be as for into the analysis. That means

just. You know, same basis view on something like whatever you did in the anniversary and relevant. So I I was no sad on that. I don't know yet. There's no restriction on the phone. Yeah. Right?

There's the the emergency declaration was for the four point two one hour. Okay. And and in my own defense, I'll bring you guys into as many decisions as humanly possible. But when the emergency declaration went out two days before the holiday, that's why the mayors. And I'll go through all of the the logic that you would like me to go through that led me to that decision.

That's why I can't have. We've done the resolution. So I've done the resolution. So I've done the resolution. So I've done the resolution. So I've done the resolution. So I've done the resolution. So I've done the resolution. So I've done the resolution. So I've done the That's what I told them. Because we had it they had it sexually. Oh, they did? I didn't know.

Sure. Citizen.

Yeah. But they had a municipally designated area Yes. By the mayor in conjunction with the fire chief and registered with the state forester. None of which was in our resolute. That's why our.

I do appreciate that. The required after this stuff, there's a million kind of balls to juggle. So thank you.

That's all I got. Thank you.

Yeah. Couple question, We could just get a little update. Justin, you sent an email a few weeks ago that the the pocket park that we own across the street to the west from Oregon Park, there was an offer to purchase it. Right? And so maybe you just give us an update about when you responded to that person or I did not respond to that person. I They have a back to the ceiling. No. I was waiting for direction from here. Yeah.

From Wednesday, we have a rest of the competition with that.

Yeah. This is Josh. We need memory. We I think we need to

find out if

that part was part of a conserved or development agreement. Did I miss that?

There's there's no there's no submit.

I might have I might have just sent Me. Might have just you because you had a question, and so I answered it. But There's no strange test there. From what from everything that I read, no.

Sure. Yeah. Mhmm. I I think there should be work done before it comes to the council. I mean, like, staff or the talk to the potential buyer. The creative staff did that, you know, like, well, how serious? Willing to pay full market value? Right? I mean, those are all things that we have to do at Citi.

So maybe some education for the I guess that's why I was I was like, I I I for me, a head nod saying you guys are actually interested in making this happen. You will give me enough to start that train and have some of those discussions.

See if you get the nod. It would be great to pursue the conversation. When Rob gave us his presentation about all the park parks in the city, I can't remember what he said specifically. I think he said something like, well, that that piece gets used by the you know, the name of your voice to play pickups, football, and it's shady, and that's about it. Yeah. So, I mean, if we could find a use for that land that might benefit more people, I'd be interested in discussing that.

Yeah. And this will be an inner because I had a distinct thought around our

Why don't we own property, you could build property, affiliated with Morgan Farm. It's not expanding with a farm. We have to put a big rock

Yeah. It's a bit Flushing beacon too. I'm worried about Well, Yeah.

Yeah. But, yes, it makes it great to discuss that part of the. Part of the the real offer that we wanna entertain. So we love that hearing from them from them. I

I will too. Okay. Okay.

Yep. My next point, I just wondered if we could get just a quick update about our new sign off in the 2600 South and maybe some of those homeowners that live along there. And and it's if we're gonna change in the last few weeks, Maybe you just need your update. You could let us know if anything changed. I just as a for the interest, I went to a cash council meeting this week, and it was one hour and a minute long long. My fourth week was my nightly online. You're next. No. No. I'm I'm. I have a meeting with the library director and the bookmobile director last week. You know, mine. And it's really interesting to learn more about library situation on the state level. And and I'd love to hear if there if you have any update about what's going on with the cash rebate library.

They canceled their last two meetings, and Providence is going to put a nonbinding ballot feature on this November to see if Providence residents want to start continue to have a Providence library. But the when when meetings start getting counts you know, canceled for the board, it's it's it's not promised. Providence has backed away from media timing just didn't make sense. I was approached. I'll give you a full disclosure. I was asked by the Providence of mayor for us to for Nibley City to build into the budget money to

give

ownership, which was a large amount of money or access for Nibley RiskVits to go to the county library located in Providence. Yes. And, frankly, the fact that we are committed by contract to Hiram, I that go. Yep. We we can't get out of our contract with Hiram. For For a couple years. Another year. Another nine months of path, we'll have no in three

if we're done with that.

So

Alright. That's all.

I would love to hear about the bookmobile idea. In fact, I I wanted you to come to a county library board meeting and talk about the bookmobile. But when they cancel the meeting, I'd get a hold of it. Yeah. Well, I'd love to hear what you not just.

You too. Doesn't have to be to add to the list of of Jake on how the property discussions with the cards folks is going, whether it's just an email to us or this meeting. It doesn't matter me. Standard to us. In that meeting, into a rec, you guys may or may not know that Keanu's approved a committee. We're not gonna have people on it, but we need to actually, like, hone down and see if this could happen in the county or not. So so that was interesting and has impacts us still on pause, it feels like. So I think we need to do something there as a as the city soon decide whether we're gonna move forward, just redeem ourselves, and wait for them to settle the I guess, we'll wait and see what happens with that.

The irony of that is there was a committee. Yeah. It was a steering committee that worked for eighteen months on this, came up with a proposal, which then that work was thrown away so the county could pour a new steering pit. And I said time after time, they I said time after time. That's just we need to either fish or cup anchor. Let's make a decision because we're sitting around waiting, and it's not fair. But I didn't and I didn't ask for anybody. Well, I thought I did. I thought it was like, we're gonna stop, babe, so then we can go fish. But then it's this well, we'll resurrect another security thing Do more of these building studies.

More efficient?

I'll do one or the other. I don't care. Nick, what do you have for us?

Just wanted to apologize for not being there. Appreciate everybody. Justin, just out of curiosity, have we it kinda made me think today when we got that email from Steve with the drone imagery. It was kinda interesting to see what 10% of a water reduction is already you know, what that looks like just as a strategy. Have have staff been getting any complaints from citizens on just overall look look of parks, or has have has everyone been pretty understanding?

I've worked for many of us.

Did you hear Justin's response, Nate? No. I didn't get that. I'm sorry.

Sorry. We have not heard anything from anybody about response or the local landscape.

Did you hear it that time again? No. I I'll just talk to Justin later. Sorry. Oh, wait. Can you hear me? I can hear you just great, Larry. Thank you.

Go ahead.

He hasn't heard anything from anybody. That's good news. And you haven't heard anything from him?

Perfect.

It's so weird.

Might be the mics. I don't know. Maybe the mics. Sorry. Were you hearing staff during the meeting?

Was yes. Yep. Just just there when Justin was talking. I couldn't hear him. But, otherwise, it's been pretty Go ahead.

Okay. Anything else, David?

Nope. Thank you all. I appreciate it.

Levi? I'm good. Thanks.

Justin, you're gonna give us a twenty six hundred update, Thomas? Okay. Tom? Yeah, man.

A couple of things. 2600 Southside lost. I'd say it was a pleasant project, but it turned out really good.

It's a really good project.

And I know council is aware of some complaints from the property owners. We I think the contractor did a fantastic job. There was one driveway that didn't make beat spec. They they it is too high. They tried to scrape they heated it up and tried to scrape it out, and they create this little bit of it. And I said, no. We're we're gonna give them a good product. So they're actually gonna remove the one driveway, and they're gonna they said it's a little bit tight on the design, so they we're gonna split some some additional removal to give a little bit almost some safety factor for them to so when they do replace it, they're gonna take out a little bit more about five, six feet of it more and then replace it. It's scheduled to be removed next week, Tuesday ish, and then replaced on Wednesday, Thursday. The landscaping was completed last week and Friday, the hottest city of the year. But the landscaper actually fabricated a whole bunch of those sprinklers and gave one to everybody that didn't come. So he he put together some PVCs, some sprinkler heads, and all they had to do was hook their houses to it. So even though it was hot, he he recognized that. In fact, he he went above and beyond. I didn't even know it. And I go by them, like, it's just all look the same. It's not like everyone just had to have the same parts. So I called up to them. Who did this? And he said he did. So he fabricated, put these things together, and just gotta make sure the project was a success. So I don't know if you have any specific questions or comments about it.

We do. It's gonna follow the same general where it goes down and then breaks down into lawn. Yes.

And then after we we'll just get a little bit accurate height to maybe I guess it was just not raining. And if you really look at it, the asphalt was an inch or so below the grass elevation, and that did help things. And when you're engineering, the survey is collect those hard hard surface points. So they're that they just got too tight. Yep. And so we're gonna take a bit more out of the next

Okay. Follow-up, Tom.

Are citizens satisfied that are living there? Are

we are we resolving concerns or not? No. Do you know if I have a minute? Great. Common change. Change. I'll tell you, principal King was ecstatic. I I had to talk to her. Well, I had to remind her to turn on her sprinklers, but we're absolutely fine. And she just says, talents is so great. I'm so excited for this. Thank you so much. And I wish everyone else had that same appreciation for the the house. The council directs us to remove the entire driveways and regrade them, replace them. You know, that that's one thing. But this particular driveway that's that's gonna be removed and replaced, there there's some challenges to it if we're gonna go any further than the sector five feet. There's a tree there with a bunch of roots ingrained into it. Tree's gonna have some damage, and that's the last thing we've wanted to do is kill a tree and then have that responsibility as well. But there's there's believe it or not, it was some fortifying that.

Yeah. The issue is really that they're not happy about is the fact that the water drains on their property.

So that's just what they're not happy about.

Water from their driveway. Right.

And then there's been about half. I think two of them, I've really heard a lot from. The others, three or four, I haven't heard much from. There was one phone call from Rhonda, and she was questioning why they put the landscape down on the hottest week of the year. I questioned that too, but the contractor just wants to be done. He he took a lot of abuse as well, and he just wants to get it done. And as the project manager, I can't really dictate their schedule. I just give a deadline. They just got to show when they're gone.

Yeah. We did offer

Right. Oh, yeah. I didn't mention that. Justin, in his great mind, he says, hey. Let's offer them a $100 in their next bill so we will show a $100 credit will show up on that water bill for next month. Just just to help make sure those things done.

So are you direction from thousand gallons of water. $100. To a 100,000 gallons of water.

Should keep your graininess and skin.

It's gonna have water problems. It's gonna have drainage problems.

Oh, okay. So you need fun basements. Yes. We we Is there any direction from council? I've done several of these projects, and they're oftentimes contentious when you're changing rates and things like that. We do our best to try and pull on that. I just tried to talk to them several weeks before the project, and we would try to design and get it as soon as we could and put door flyers out. Contractor communicated. He attacks them with door hangers as well. The landscaper, when he he did all his thing, he put another door hanger. So we tried to communicate. It's not like we had direct communications in every day with them, and I had to explain what the plan was and just it's hard for, like, to have a really good plan and understand. But we we do try. If you have any recommendations for staff, we're very open to to that.

100,000 gallons of. I can't just fill this room. My gosh.

I wish that sick there's six credits.

Yeah. I'm gonna do a wireline,

and I assume you offer to, like, get that space and move half on before the project started?

So I I that somebody is saying. Yes. I I need the project manager for the contractor. His phone number. And so they have to communicate with him because I don't have like I said, I don't need to get to work with the schedule. I'm getting over to them. And maybe we'll provide some new work. And so it's harder for me because he'll tell me something on Monday, say, hey. We're gonna start on Wednesday. So I I just told you that they're gonna tear that driveway out on Tuesday. I'm hoping that's gonna happen. It it can change in a moment's notice. So instead of being that, it'd be a person, I give that

directly to their project manager, and he he was more than happy to take that off. That's one of the things I heard from from I you know, looking at this in this blueprint, I mean, couldn't tell that there was gonna be this change in the grade of my driveway. I wasn't how was I supposed to know that? So I just wonder if people have questions like that, who were they directed to speak to? Was it the contractor or the company at Citi?

I actually did not talk to everyone with the glass. Right. Okay. And I tried to explain to them a second. Yeah. They're gonna do some great elevation changes. Yeah. I I knocked on doors as well and gave phone off.

Yep. That's great. The

only thing is the city center border. So the bike park's a huge success. We just wrapped up. We're gonna be waiting till October to do some natives leading around kinda status meditation. Rod or just a shade structure and put out some picnic tables. It's so well used. It's crazy. The restroom is scheduled to be delivered mid September so we can get that in place, get the the water sewer connected, and and we're gonna put a drinking pump on there as well. So that'll wrap that up toward the end of fall. The other phase phase one, we do have restrictions because of the you ladies' tresses, and those restrictions demand that we cease construction on June 30 through September 15. I've been working very closely with our local representative for the next day's Fish and Wildlife, Deborah Wright. She lives just beyond the bike park. And we've had two extensions on that so far. One, the well, actually, three. One of the vans tomorrow, and that's on the north end where that parking light is. So it's gonna allow us to complete some landscaping and do as much grading as we can. We're not gonna quite get the parking done on that. We're gonna be able to, like, do a wrap up a lot of the irrigation, landscaping, and things like that. We'll park in some trees, go on, broke out of things. And then where the playground is kind of, there's the center trail where the pavilions are gonna be going. We have till the end of the morning to finish that. So we're trying to get some crews back on on track, and, hopefully, we can pretty much get the saw in during that period of time and do some some native seeding and get the the veins up. So it's it's still moving along just a little slower. Any other questions?

Okay. Cheryl, do you have anything?

We should've all gotten the reminder of the newsletter. Yes. It's it does it does involve schools and more specifically traffic, safe driving, not disturbing this traffic to get kids to school legally, and we have that discussion about studies. So if you would like to write a newsletter, please do. I'm always looking for a new material. I mean, reach out to the Cache County Sheriff's Department, say they can provide us with some new information and. Not like the new employees, but we'd love them to get contributions anytime. Then put on your calendars the summer employee party on the seventeenth at, Sportsman's Paradise again. We're planning. So make sure you hit the DI or a goodwill or your own closets over the, Hawaiian shirt competition so that you can we've got a beer on how we can keep the public works department from stacking them. Maybe. But we're buying a really good time out there. I keep hoping you can open. There have been a little bit of talk of having the city council serve food.

We can start to have watermelon.

So I'll I'll let you know if I can do that.

Subject.

Seventeen six o'clock, sportsman's perfect.

Alright. Anything else? Without objection, we will adjourn or adjourn. Thank you.

Let's speak share some of the

other. Thanks, Nick. Thanks, Nick.