Planning Commission 6.4.2025

Ned, Ned, we're draftless. Ned, Ned, I don't need more practice.

You already have the practice. You're you're certified. Yeah. Because we're seven zero two. We should have a yeah. So we're gonna meet you. I don't see an agenda in the box. I don't need Ned, Ned,

Only one item.

Mike is with us. He's not in person. So Mike's name Like, we'll leave his name tag out. Okay. Name tag? I think so. Did is DJ on any moment? Do we know if DJ's coming? We have a DJ? DJ coming? That's our goodness. That was funny. I wish.

And Michael is online connecting right now. And the livestream has begun, although we have not started the recording for public record. Melissa.

We're good.

So whoever is connecting, tell him you're ready, and I'll start the public recording.

Good call.

Hey, Perox. Is there anything?

Oh, I'm not even gonna go in that.

I'll do it. I'll do it. If you'll post it up here. I don't have my Do you want do you wanna get a printed one to just have You've got it. It's up here now.

Put it up. Okay.

And it is from

Alright. I started recording.

Yep. Okay.

Alright. Welcome everybody to the to the planning commission meeting on June 4. We'll get started now. Sorry for the delay. Had a little technical difficulties. To start off, we will have a thought and pledge of allegiance. Holly, did you know about this?

No. But I don't know why I can't get it. Well, we'll we'll we'll pass to you. Thank you. I appreciate it. You take care of that. Thank you.

My brother in heaven, we come before the beginning of this planning commission meeting for the city of Hyde Park, and we thank thee for the beautiful place that we have. We thank thee for the mountains and the clean water and air and the safety and security that we enjoy and friendliness and of neighbors and friends and service and loving one another. We thank thee for the associate associations that we have and the freedoms that we get to enjoy. We pray that that would be with us as we try to manage the affairs of our city and help with things that would be better best for all of the citizens in the long run. Help us to be mindful of those here and now and those who will come after us. Please help us have clear minds and to understand one another and to communicate well and be friendly and kind in all of our discourse. We pray in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. Please stand and join me in the pledge.

I pledge allegiance to the flag The United States Of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty, and justice for all.

Thank you.

Thank you. Let's approval of the minutes from the last meeting on May 21. Did anybody have anything that they saw that they did not agree with or like from the minutes that were posted? I didn't see anything. Thank you, Abraham. And you didn't see anything either?

So I didn't see anything.

You okay, Holly?

I I saw something. Alright, Mike. What do you got? I think on the bottom of page three, you've put down that we opened a a public hearing. I think we already showed that earlier in the same doc I think we put it twice for this for the same subject.

Find that? You know what he's talking about? Yeah.

21.

You said it again at bottom of page three?

Yes. Yeah. I think the stormwater penalties, we'd already opened that public hearing on page on the bottom of page two. I'm still here. Open it again on page three. So that wasn't there. That didn't happen then. It happened before.

K.

That's the only thing I saw. If that's deleted, I'm good.

K. I'm not seeing that on our draft that we have pulled up here, but I'll check with It may just be on the one that I have on my box. I don't know. I'll make a note. Check with that tomorrow morning and make sure that gets updated.

K.

Was there was there anything else you saw, Mike? Nope. That was it. And I'll make a motion to approve the minutes with that one amendment.

I'll second that.

K. Let's have a vote. All those in favor of the, approving the minutes from the May 21 meeting, subject to that potential change the change that Mike came up with, that they'll review. All those in favor could say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? K. Sounds like minutes are approved. Let's move on to our administrative items. Wolfpack Heights, final. If the developer wants to come up and give a presentation on Start up. Oh, Marcus, why don't you give us a little little Intro. Kinda overview, intro, whatever you wanna call it, and then we'll have them come up.

Yeah. I'll talk about this a little bit. So this plan is new for the planning commission, kind of. Wolfpack Heights is a subdivision located along Wolfpack Way between Wolfpack Way and Highway 91. Just to the south of where the area is currently being built? North. North of the Aria. Thank you. Just north of where the Aria project is being currently built. When this plan was presented to the planning commission in preliminary stage, it was only the, commercial condo units with residential on top plus some of the townhomes you're seeing on the current plan. The planning commission recommended that it not move forward. And so when this plan was taken to the city council, they updated it to add in more townhome units and a lot more commercial space. The the plan is currently I mean, as you see here, there's a couple of issues that have been outlined with during the redlining process. I just wanna present, for the commission that need to be considered tonight before the vote is taken. Some of these were just brought up a matter of hours ago, and so I sent that out to the developer. I hope they had a chance to see that, and so they'll have some conversation about it, there's two main concerns that the city has at this point. Concern number one is with the open space. The the developer is proposing that a large retention pond be counted towards the open space requirement. The city staff is not comfortable with that being counted as open space and snow removal area and stormwater retention pond. I feel like there is a problem with it being counted as all three. I'll let the developers speak to their point of view with that item. The other issue that was identified is the there's a concern when we were double checking the stormwater calculations. It appears that the pond is undersized. I asked Sunrise to triple check these calculations because this seems odd to me, but they identified that that pond may be undersized. And so they will be looking at that really closely over these next couple of days. But those are the two biggest concerns that the city staff have with this project. When it was moved forward at DRC, the motion was that it not come to the planning commission until the red lines were fully addressed. But these besides the stormwater, the issue of the open space got to the point where the developer sees the code one way, the city staff sees it another way, so we decided to move it on to the planning commission and city council to be the ultimate decision on the issue. So that's where it's at. Inbox is the current site plan as well as the proposed design for the commercial units and the residential units. And we're just talking about phase one in this today. Right? Technically, yeah. We're talking about phase the phase one construction plans. Although, overall, we still are taking a look at the entire site to make sure that things like the stormwater and open space that affect the entire site are in place, although they could be altered in the future as part of future phases.

Alright. The developer now wants to come forward and explain the their thought process maybe on the open space, and I know you haven't had a chance to probably look at the stormwater, and that's something I mean, you can comment it on it now if you would like, but it's probably if you just barely got it, you need the chance to double check. Yeah. We we got some comments on it. So

so I'm Cody Zonner. I am the engineer on the project. K. So to start out with just that, the pond being common open space, we are completely willing to disregard the pond as common open space because even if we disregard the pond as common open space, we still meet the 50% requirement from the old code. So rather than have a fight over what whether or not the pond's common open space since it's not technically needed as common open space,

we're totally willing to just say, awesome. It's not common open space. So so what is the requirement on open space when at the time this was submitted just as a review for us? Right. So Not 5050%.

We have to remember that this was submitted under the old code. I have uploaded the old code, the 2024 version into box for us to all be able to refer back to. The requirement for a general open space was 20% of the entire site. Again, the general open space could double as a stormwater pond, snow removal areas. It just refers to general open space. The old code did require that half of that general open space be set aside as what's referring to as common open space, which does have to be a recreation area or amenity area. I'm trying to find that it give that The 20%. Half of the 20. That's the 50% you're talking about. 50%.

Not a problem. So 10% really is And the 10% of the open space needs to be the amenities slash gathering areas slash common open space. And they meet that without

the sorry. They meet that, Marcus. They meet that requirement without the pond, the 10%?

I think it's close without the pond. Oh, okay. I have to go back to I'm sorry. I'm trying to find here it is. Open space and landscaping. So here's the old code. Page seven of the documented box details the requirement for the code. 20% total, 50% shall be dedicated as common open space such as recreation facilities or amenities.

K. Because the front by the commercial wouldn't qualify as recreational open space. Correct?

That's for the planning commission and the city council ultimately to to decide. Like I said, there was a concern with Like, landscape bag. Yeah. So that could be counted as it has to be an amenity or recreation area. Okay. So the developer is currently showing there's a picnic area behind the commercial building. The city staff thought that was, you know technically, they're meeting the letter of the code. Is it a great amenity area? That's for the city planning commission city council to decide. Last time we talked about swapping the play and the pickleball.

No. The the That was back when the pickleball was down down down by the pool. Wind blowing the pickleball. No. Even different at the DRC.

We were just no. And even before DRC this morning, we talked about, like or No. No. No. You were at last month's DRC where we saw this talked about it? Yeah. K. Just saying, like, can we have the playground on the residential side of the pickleball courts instead of the Yeah.

We talked about just switching that. That's Just swap those two. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We could do that. Yeah. K. Except that I already asked that, and it's still looking like this. So Oh, yeah. I think you just didn't get the communication process where it goes. So, yeah, we can do that. Perfectly fine.

So oh, Abbott and Costello?

White water.

So what in in when we're looking at this view here, I can see a a pool clubhouse area. Is that what this is right here? Yes. And so, obviously, that is common open space. Yeah. Where else is and you're counting the stuff over by the road? Is that what you

You have the pool and the clubhouse area. Right. You also have another playground right there with a green space for kids to play. All of the green space in between the townhomes throughout from north to south counts as common open space. Your pickleball court slash playground area counts as common open space. The little green space right there between the two commercial buildings will have a picnic table. That is common open space. And then behind lot where it says lot one, there'll be a couple more pickleball not pickleball, picnic tables back there. That will also count as common open space. But where's, like, a big above the one point. We technically aren't even counting. There's also that green area over there on Wolfpack Way. That would also count as common open space, but I haven't even counted that in the Well

like a big soccer field or place to throw a Frisbee or that's, like, in the residential area, not, like, over by the highway.

That playground with the green space right there, probably your biggest spot to throw a football or firstly around. In terms of soccer field, yeah, we don't really have a soccer field. We are completely okay with turning the retention Pond into a solid field, and the kids can go play soccer in that. Still that's put it right next to the highway. Yeah. And that's my same the same problem with the other

space is it's right as a highway. You know? You've got, I'm assuming, young families and kids in strollers and toddlers. Like, you're saying go play behind the commercial building? We don't feel like

most of the kids and toddlers will be playing at the playground, the clubhouse pool area, the pickleball slash playground up there. I have little kids. I I don't think they're gonna go play behind the commercial unless I'm saying, oh, there's a picnic table over there. Let's go with a family over there and sit on a picnic table. So as it's used as a common open space, it meets the requirements of a common open space. I personally see most of the kids, yes, are gonna be playing by the playgrounds and the pool. Does it have to be in the commercial area, or can it be in the residential area? Well, we have quite a few throughout the residential area, including if you see on there, there's a bunch of hatched. In between the townhomes, yeah, there's those little hatched areas. Those are gonna be barbecue pads, sitting areas, little workout stations, possibly even another little tot cute little tot playground. So we have quite a few in the residential area.

I mean, I like the concept of having a lot of it together, like you have around that commercial building. Does it have to be around that commercial building, or can it be in the residential area?

For this plan to fit, it has to be around that commercial. That's just how it lays out on this plan.

I just don't think it's gonna no one's gonna use that down by the highway.

No one's gonna send their kids to the highway to play. Yeah. And I agree. I don't think it's gonna be necessarily kids. I actually think it's gonna be more utilized by, a, those townhomes that's exist right there along the commercial and more adults or people like that for sitting areas slash picnic area.

But for it I've got a 15 year old. I'm not even sitting on my 15 year old. There. But for it to function as for the development

or open space, it needs to be used by the development. The bulk of this development is not gonna go over there to use it. It's it's it's not feasible.

If it has to be used by the development, it will be used by the whole development. It there's no you just said you wouldn't have your little kids go over there. Well, yeah. I there I'm sure there's gonna be people that tell their kids not to go play at the pickleball court. That doesn't mean the pickleball court does not meet the standards for a for a commercial or a common open space.

So one comment that the DRC brought up at the meeting was Cody said that all this space between the townhomes is common open space, but the city staff does not feel like that is common open space. That is more like a general open space. The area like, they do have these common open space areas that are crosshatched. That definitely counts because it's an amenity. But this, that's just

You're paying on somebody's front porch or back porch or whatever. Yeah. We don't feel like that. That can count as

as regular general open space, but not as, like, an amenity or recreation area.

No. I would agree with that. I don't think this plan has enough open space as what was

redlined. Right. Per the code, that's the main problem, though, is that the code can't be decided upon just based on what opinions are. It has to be based on verbiage in the code. Per the verbiage in the code, that does count as common open spaces, a walking trail slash the kids will play in front yards quite a bit through there.

Well, I I just I I don't I don't think it meets the intent of open space common open space.

Well and and around the commercial, like, there's there's no interpretation there. Like, that is too far away. There's banks of townhouses in front of them. I mean, there's no way you could count that as common open space. Right.

I'm just not gonna take my kids out of the neighborhood area past the McDonald's to go play on their park strip is what that feels like. And maybe it's a lot bigger than that, but it's along the highway. Like so I love that it's a big chunk. Can it be on like you said, are you saying it has to be in that commercial area? Can it be on the backside of that commercial area? So at least it borders the townhome side instead of bordering the road, the highway. Yeah.

Oh, and No. No. The step on the highway.

No. This one.

Yeah. Oh, okay. We can go I'm not counting all that long, but I I'm gonna count right behind. Here. Okay. Excuse me. Sure. So,

I mean, all of that is not gonna come over here. They're not gonna pass these.

This is gonna be the same. Commercial building will use it, which is part of development and part of the reason the open space exists as well as for Talk to me about what kind of commercial like, what commercial building is gonna use that? Because, I mean, I go to Walmart, but I'm not playing on their grass in front. It's by Joann's and things like that. They have pickleball court, not pickleball courts, picnic table sitting in between them and the townhomes as well. There are actually some commercial entities that their employees for lunch will go outside and eat at the picnic tables.

Yeah. So I guess what I'm asking was, like, this where it's a lot of green together, and that's what I like. That's what I think kids need. Can it be on at least the can it be the buffer between the resident to one of the commercial? Can it be here? And then at least it feels like they haven't had to go through the McDonald's,

and it's not on the highway. Right. It's right there.

The the only question we have is with this commercial, it can it's more likely to change down the road based off of

Actually, once I go Actually, he's gonna go into.

This is the only part that's gonna be more of a blank canvas. Then can then give us the grassy area So to say on that border.

So can that, I think we No. We can mess around with it.

But it was I mean, I don't know if it affects your buildings and parking, but, like, if it ends up like this, I'm I'm gonna say we messed up. Like Thinking about commercials

based off who buys that. At one point, it's gonna be a grocery store. And that's how much this could change. Is that Yeah. Or so to say that, hey. You're not listening. I think we're we're looking at the wrong aspects of this project to say that, hey. You want me to grab this area that we find? That could be just one large building smacked out in the middle. By the time someone comes to say, hey. I'd like to purchase this. It could be a small grocery store. I just don't think it's worth it's it's a part of the debate. It really needs to be Well, then I don't then I don't feel like that's enough

play area for 200 townhomes. Yeah.

There is gonna be that common area for commercial. All I'm saying is that if we did need that, your piece in the back to be a play area that you're needing or or talking about, I don't think it's gonna be

a a good point. Trying to throw something in on that Yeah. I think it's something back in there. That that probably just gonna be piece could be manipulated the malls throughout the whole project, I feel like. Yeah. So it all in in the end depends on basically who ends up going in there.

I understand that. But part of it is we're we're trying to say, hey. Go forward with this because you've got enough open space, and you're saying, well, that's a really blank canvas. So can't really count that, or can we, you know, can we cannot can we cannot count it? And I and I don't agree that the little grass space in between them is trails because it doesn't go anywhere. It's just a walk. It's just a sidewalk area. So I don't think that's open space common open space. It's something not something that anybody's gonna play on. They're gonna let their dogs do their business on, and that's all. So I think we should

Mhmm. I also sort of being blown city here. But we we actually were the front part of our our yard Mhmm. More than any of the amenities of the project. Right. And we hung out there. I had my little 45 year old waiting. We click games in front. That's gonna be utilized building. How big is each one of those little green squares? It looks like it's maybe, like, four by eight? In between the

you have 20 feet in between the two buildings. So it's maybe, like, a sidewalk. Yeah. You're looking about eight feet wide by however long those 24 eight by 24.

Is it, like, from me to you? I mean, like, this is my front door, and that's your front door? Yeah. That's the end of the sidewalk. Yeah. That's the next house is where he's standing at now. Like like, is this my front door and that's your front door? And this is the and this is all grass in between? No. There's a sidewalk. Sidewalks and, like, sidewalks up to each house. Checkerboard of sidewalks.

Yes. Yeah. I mean, I I just don't think that is really common open space. I think that's general open space, but I don't I don't it's not like an amenity. It's not like something that people are gonna play Frisbee on, like you were saying or whatever you wanna call it. So I I don't think that meets the intent of the of the common

open space. It's a discussion that people that actually live there, I I have things. Okay. I think that's been part of the discussion is I I know you guys see that as as you go up on that title on the top right hand corner, you see all this mumbo jumbo right here. But as you look in the top right hand corner of this plan, it shows more vividly all the green space and the open space. And that allows you to see what what more can you use there as that green open space, common area, and the usual space. And to me, like like I said, once the buildings were in and that area is in place is when you can see that vision. And, Alexa, I've lived in an area like this, and I've used areas like that. When I have little kids, I don't know if they play pickleball. There's just so many uses for each area that will develop like this, and there's so many variations of people. I mean, by much better than all students. She still says that people visualize things differently throughout the project and the usage of it. So I I was gonna do I can do a logically bit. Jake, could you talk on the microphone for that? Sorry. But in my experience, I I people throw garbage at them, and they become a garbage pit rather than than a a fire pit. There's certain places and amenities that I've used in the past that that I know function, and and that's where I say I've I've with my experience and that I build projects like this, we're building one in Ogden right now. We see those being used differently than we anticipated and we expected. And like I said, I've even lived in a project like this, and the usage of it does function. Like I said, we my wife was out there laying out with my little boy and playing all day long in that front little area, and she wishes that we had something like that now.

Yeah. No. I agree. I think I agree that that will get used, but I don't think I think that is gonna feel like my space, like my front yard, and so I'm gonna use it to if my neighbors are out in their front yard. I don't know that, like, she's gonna come over from two buildings over, you know, and we're gonna take up a few people's front yards. Maybe. Maybe. I do agree. It's going to get used. But I guess I was hoping for that little space and at least one big space that you can kick a soccer ball into a goal or throw a Frisbee, like, some distance. And so if you can guarantee me one of those big chunks from the highway backs the residential area without having to go through commercial,

I'll consider it. And I think what I'm saying is I won't see that being a problem. I think that would be something we could focus on as we put together the commercial space. And I also see that commercial space going fairly quick, and I think that could be the focus as we go through the city that made that comment that, hey. This was the condition.

The approval was that we needed this little space back. Yeah. I think that would be a problem. No. I'll make it work. Is there a way we can almost just Marcus, will you go back up to whoever's running it? To the open space map? Yeah. I just wanna is there a reason that we need to have all of the green open space? Because that's a significant amount bordering the highway. Can we almost just flip it?

The your main problem is the city code requires that the residential townhomes have to be 250

feet away from the highway. No. I understand that. I'm saying the screen where we've got these buildings

Well, if these

ones. Why can't we just walk and just do a mirror image? So instead of bordering the highway,

we've got this really nice green strip that almost doesn't have a waterline running right there.

But that would solve our issues.

Yeah. There's a waterline running right through the middle right there. Meaning no buildings right there. In the basement. Uh-huh. Is it a p u e u? Meets code, I believe, because I don't think I think there's a setback along Highway 91 for you guys. But I think the biggest problem is you'll see that existing waterline running right there. You see that one? Yeah. Marcus, can you I can't see it. What what is this line? This This one? Are we talking about that one? Oh, thank you. There's so many So because of that, I can't shimmy that building over. Otherwise, I would definitely move it over. However, as Jake says, by all technicalities, if a bigger building comes in here, which I think would be the dream of everybody, it'll be a bigger building that takes up more of the commercial space than one one big building, you're naturally gonna double the amount of open space that's over there, and I can shimmy things around a lot more. The reason it's broken out like this is to try and help commercial buildings. If they are smaller, they can still visualize this area as more of a commercial park rather than one large

building. Grocery store. Nothing. Right. Yeah. So my issue with approving this or recommending approval is the what if situation. Because if we're saying, okay. We're okay with this. We recommend it. Then this could be exactly what we get. Yes. And that's my issue is that a big part of sorry. I have a throat big. A big part of the common open space is in this unknown. That's an issue. Because, ultimately, we're recommending for approval, and we're recommending this plan for approval. I can do I'm gonna answer that because

even if we did say, hey. Don't put a grass section back there and move it forward. We just say that won't change too. So I guess what I'm saying is that we could recommend we'd be specific if you guys wanna buffer between multiple space and between the commercial and residential. I don't and and I'm sorry, Mark. So that's all. You probably can't hear it anyways. I can hear you. But but I think I don't know if you can make that recommendation that that could be condition. Or condition. Excuse me. I'm there. That could be a a condition. But as we go along the commercial, we're still blank canvas. Like I said, I don't know what's gonna be there. I would hope a a big grocery store, but as we go along, I think that could be a focus if we could make a condition upon this.

Yeah. I mean, it it really goes back to what you're willing to agree to in order to get this through. If the commission says that this doesn't meet the requirements and it's not gonna go through and they're gonna hold it up, great. That's allowed. But if you're willing to agree to some sort of concession like that, say, yeah, we agree that we'll modify it this way and we have that on the public record, then, I mean, you'll be bound to it. But if you're okay with being bound to it, then the planning commission can move you on if they're okay with it too.

I I just think where it's there's just areas that we I mean, we're not far off on what we're trying to do here. Right. And usable space would be a benefit to the residential and the commercial, I would think, and a buffer. That's why I say I'm not against that. Now if you were to say, hey. We just want two large buildings there for commercial. I think that would be saying, hey. I don't wanna be limited to what I put there as far as commercial. It's just such a I wanna still leave that a blank canvas, and I'm hoping to have just one large building and have open all that, the common area. But I think I think what does make sense to me is a condition we put some common area in between as a buffer. I don't think that would be a a problem in my eyes. I don't think that's anything that is the hurting the process. I don't I don't I don't think it would matter

where it is Yeah. You know, on here, like, pickle balls up in that corner. But to have and I get that you can't change this. I understand setbacks and things, but this chunk, that's no storage, but for that would be a great play space. That chunk and this chunk, if if I knew, you know, that it had some sort of a and I don't know if we have to say, like, it needs to be at least 50 yards or you know what I mean? So that's not a skinny thing just off of here, you know, that's still so deep into the commercial. I don't I don't know how to specify it.

That's right. I don't that's right. I don't know what we're doing.

I know, but you understand what we're saying. Like Melinda. It's

Well well, I mean, it's it seems to me that because the commercial's so unknown, it would be better for you and for everybody if the plan was independent of what the commercial ended up being. So if you rearranged so that your open space was in the border zone or whatever you wanna call it or maybe just moved all the way over to the residential, however you wanna do it, then then we can say, okay. That's fixed, and now with the whole plan works. But by having it this vague it might be this, it might be that. We can't really count the count that almost because it's so uncertain. So it makes more sense to me to have you move it over so we can say, this is what we're gonna do and this is what we're approving because I mean,

it's too big. Well and there's also a red line, isn't there, about the clubhouse that to count it, it would needs to be open to the public?

To be counted as commercial space. So they're counting it as common open space, which, of course, it is because it's a recreation area. Sure. And they're also counting as commercial, which we've allowed in the past, but there's a condition that it has to be open for anyone, not like as a public rec center, but the HOA has to allow other people to come and rent it or use it as an event space or something. So someone could come in and buy, like, a pool pass?

Is that what you mean?

More like rent it out as, like, a birthday.

They they can

Yeah. A a space for for parties. I, that don't live in this development, could rent that out Yeah. For my kids' birthday party? Yeah. Like, they do that down at the Four Seasons in North Logan. You can rent out that space for weddings and family parties and If my friend did a wedding at a clubhouse and someone Oh, I bet that would go really well. Yeah. So Could use event space. We we allow event space. Can't remember which. I From the developments that have come through, we've allowed them to count that if they have it as a rental that's open to the general public. Okay. Is there a pavilion of some kind by the pool?

Not at this time unless something's I mean, the clubhouse itself would have kind of a a room in in It's maybe a patio.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that. I like that. I like that too.

K.

The the pool of clubhouse itself is a huge expenditure. I know. When you go to this size, a lot of these people live here expect that. And that's why it's hard to slap that when you say, hey. I wanna place the clip first. We if we left that just grass area. Right. It would qualify. That. I know. Be happy. But Is there grass next to the pool or probably not? There's there's grass around those patches around there, but this pool and clubhouse gets used so much. To take it away, I I fear that saying, hey. Let's just take the pool away and not even have it altogether. No. I your fill. I know. Those are expensive. I appreciate that. For this size, I think people like that expect it. That's why I'm saying the give and take for something like this to have your big grassy area. Yeah. I'm trying to fill with areas that I know will be used and utilized Yeah. The size of the project, And they're not cheap. Just a grassy area, I'd love to do that. I know. So I I know I think that's what I'm saying. We could work together. I'm trying to create a project that I know is gonna function well and is gonna be used. But at the same time, that's what I'm saying. I'm hoping we can work together to make sure that this project works. Alright. So so the pool comes with phase two.

Is that correct? Yes. When does when does pickleball and that play area come? That'd be part of phase two. Three? Your black line doesn't show that. So can we get that in the notes? Or You suggest the phase line? Just just just fine. Because right now, it's I think it's got cut off by the green overlay you put on there. It just goes up to the bottom of it, and it doesn't the phase line doesn't seem to go right or left. So

Is that heavy black line, the phase line? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I'm thinking it's like a pack for a crate. Don't you have to do commercial? It's You have to Yeah. And that's one thing that we mentioned in the beginning. All of these units on Wolfpackway have a commercial condo in the bottom, and there's a residential unit on top. So in every phase, they are including a chunk of those, so they are having commercial in every phase.

And then you sent over some designs. Do you have which one you're gonna go with? Yes. We we have look hosted.

So it feels like seven

months. I mean, there's February. I feel like there's February. In here. Yeah. Yeah. I We sent some elevations over. Oh, no. I I have them. I'm just wondering if there's option a, option b. They'll they'll alter me. Oh, okay. Yeah. They're they're required to do a mix. Oh, perfect. That's what I was just gonna say. Are we mixing these up? We're staggering them. They're not gonna be pretty shot of.

K.

I don't need this one. No. We didn't With the cookie. Ordinance doesn't allow cookie cutter. Yeah. I You know? It's

Can I ask about the snow storage? I've just been too many places, whether it's a grocery store or apartments where when we have a heavy snow year, it's not every year, but we get a heavy snow year, and they pile it up, and all of a sudden we're missing five parking spaces, which are sometimes critical. Maybe not always, but often in these kind of places. We know that's that will not happen?

Yes. We have so this was done before the city's new snow calculation was concocted. So what we utilized was, yeah, Rexburg, Idaho's snow calculation. And theirs is essentially 10% of your paved areas you need in snow storage to meet your snow storage requirements. So we just made sure that we have I think I end up having, like, 14 something percent.

Alright. So you're building that. Are you Jake? Sorry. Yes. Mhmm. K. You're building this and then selling it to someone to to sell and manage. I mean, these are individually sold. Right? They'll be individually sold. And then an HOA? Yes. So an HOA is the one that's gonna manage that snowplow truck Yeah. And a driver and saying And every and You can't compromise any parking spaces for snow piling.

And they do. And then in fact, if you don't, parking is golden for Right. Like this. I know. Typically, every every new moon I mean, once in a while, you'll have a crazy storm. Yeah. And we do have to get a a loader with a truck, and we have to load it away. And I know that's a a big deal for the city for snow storage, but based off of the old code and Rexburg and all the products that I've done, it's typical. I mean, you have crazy snowstorms, but for the most part, it is managed fairly well. So Yeah. I would just hope for that. And then water dedication,

you have that taken care of? Yeah. For each phase, the water dedication. Phase one, assuming that that neither talked about it, it's essentially point four five acre feet per unit. Mhmm. Yeah. Point four five acre feet per unit and then 1.87 acre feet for every acre of irrigatable land.

But if you're using secondary water for outdoor Yeah. And if we don't have to run that. Secondary. So yeah. You found secondary water? Yes. And so that would be mitigated

because we have secondary shares and second. And then you have you've, like, signed over to the city the whatever rights or shares you need for the indoor water. That will go I'm assuming have you done this part study one so far? They will go phase by phase. That's normally when it's done.

And Marcus knows when all that would be Like, city staff checks that off or city council? Yeah. So there is that checked? There's something that the city council is

being pretty particular about this. In the code and this has been in the code all along. We've just been kind of not really in enforcing it as diff what we've done in the past is we've said you can bring us the water rights before your building permits are issued. That's how we've done it in the past. The way that the code is written is technically the city shouldn't even be approving final plans until those shares are dedicated to the city or the fee is paid. And so the city council with his most recent development that came through, they put a condition on approval saying that that couldn't actually be done until a developer brought the water shares. And so I would expect the same condition would be put on any other future developments.

That's all my questions.

And do you Mike, do you have any questions?

Yeah. I got you've you've answered a few or you've gone over a few. The commercial that is on the East Side bordering with Wolfpack Way, what are the where's the front? Where's the entrance to those commercial? Is it on Wolfpack Way?

Yes. There's also a door in the back. There's a door in the back to get in to see if you back. Okay. There's a door on the front.

Because there's no parking in the front, and there's no on street parking allowed on Wolfpack Way. So you've put it right up against the road, and there's no place other than behind the building. So, I mean, I guess if they the business opens their backdoor to customers when the signage is all on the front.

It's actually the vision of what was shown in the plan. They do not want part in the old code. I don't know if this got updated in the new code. But in the old code, the city explicitly stated that parking could not be in front of the buildings. All parking had to come either from the side or the back of the buildings. We for this purpose, the front will have storefronts, and you'll have storefronts. And so people walking along sidewalk could just walk right into the store, and that's where your storefront's gonna be. And then on the back end, there will be a door to enter kinda like down in Logan where you have the book table and every you know, everyone parks in the back, and yet you go to this little door to get in Back. Right of the store. That's essentially what you have right there.

So all the parking will be in the back, which as I as I said, the code explicitly stated that this is how it had to be done. Yeah. I'm sorry. I guess I'm just getting up to speed on that. I didn't realize we were ask saying, let's have live work units on Wolfpack Way, but no parking on Wolfpack Way. That seems odd for us to require that, but that's a side note.

Go ahead, Mike. I'm not sure if I have any other questions at this time. I'm just I'm not I mean, to be to be honest, this is the the plan or a plan just like it is the reason why we changed our code because there is there's not enough open space. And if if we're counting those little tiny lawns as open space, We made the right move to change that.

Any other questions for the developer? Thanks, guys. You guys can sit down, I guess. We'll have a little internal dis or discussion.

Do is this a recommendo?

Or we This would be a recommend for So this is a a recommendation to the city council. Right. Yeah. Recommend. Okay.

So, I I mean, I'm my feelings are that those little grass areas don't count for common. They count for general open space. Obviously, the pool and the bigger areas should count for common open space, but I don't think that you're gonna make it to 10% with just the pool and the two other little places.

I agree. I think so. They do have these other

amenity areas. Yeah. The half ones. The square playground. Barbecue area. That that, to me, that counts as common open space. But Yeah. That The little grass areas, I think, is general open space. That's my that's my feel. Doesn't I mean, when you look at this in this view, it doesn't look like very much open space anywhere. Well, and Michael's right. This is why we changed.

Right. Because it it doesn't work. We smooshed how many are there? 230 units? Something now. Two fifty one. 251. 251 units into this tiny, tiny thing. And and I agree. I don't think that those

The previous presented to the commission had about 210, 215 townhomes. Oh, you So when they added on originally, it was cut off about a third of the way in, and I can probably find that site plan. So when they added on the commercial area, there's also an addition of 30 or 40 more townhomes

overall. Because I wanna say that they went to city council, and they approved because this wasn't here.

This whole chunk wasn't here when we saw it. So when they brought this to the city council, the city council approved it, but they put a condition on that approval that the the city staff could reopen this for a full review, and we wouldn't go back and say, oh, that was already decided on preliminary. So we've worked through that with the developer. But as I said in the beginning, that's been the question with the open space and how it's counted because the city staff agrees that we don't feel like this counts as common open space. Definitely agree all these amenity areas count, you know, general open there's a lot of general open space. I think general open space wise, they're fine, especially counting the retention pond and everything else that can count as general open space. But the DRC expressed concern multiple times. We didn't feel like there was enough amenity space to be half. I Mhmm. That's up to you to decide. I think we're fair.

Sure. What's your comment?

Just for your guidance of knowledge, I know this is the I know which one you guys are talking about, why you changed the code. And that one, all those spaces were counted under the exact same code that we are currently under. So I just wanted to put that little plug in there that they were counted on that one. And, therefore, since the code hadn't changed between that one and this one, I complete under the new code, it would not be counted. And so from here on out, everything will work out exactly as you guys are planning it. But under this one, this does fit under that old code, which was counted under that other project.

I think when you're talking about the Bringhurst Village, they had little amenity spots like this. They had a lot more of them.

Right. Because this is going through the city, and the city staff and DRC has stated that it does not meet their intention of the code. Yeah. We had the same discussion with the Bringhurst Village guys. So you can count your amenity spaces you created between all the units,

but the city staff didn't want them counting the other kind of appendage green spaces off of those.

So city staff hasn't said that it's counted, and we don't feel like it's counted.

Somebody wanna make a motion? Go for it. I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion that we do not recommend this move forward to this or that the city council does not approve this one. Based on? Based on not enough common open space.

So just to be clear, you're recommending you're not recommending that it be tabled for another meeting. You're recommending that it move forward, but with a negative

recommendation. Why not table it? I mean, if they wanna come back to us and show us more open space and flip the comment to to show us how that could look, even though it is a a blank canvas, if they could at least show it to us, we could table this and they could come back. And then that way, we're not wasting city council time that they have to deny it, and then it comes back to us. It feels like it it's a more streamlined to just table it.

I think that's delayed for the developer. But we try to I tried we try to avoid I mean, because if we're

we're moving you on on a disapproval, then you have to fix it. It has to come all the way back to us, and then we approve it, then it keeps going. If we just table it for two weeks, you can bring back a new plan that works. It shows us this. It shows more open space or common open

space. Did I say that right? I I mean, I I think I understand your thought process, but I think we're trying to not table things a lot. Well, I'm asked Really? No. I'm just saying our our kind of Do we try it now? Think where you guys are not the ultimate land use authority, where you're just recommending body,

I wouldn't advise you to hold it up here. I'd let you I think Ned's motion to have it move on and let the city council decide is probably a good way to go. And then it would just come back to us if they And then if, well, the city council if the city council agrees with your recommendation and they want to see that open space altered where they're the ultimate approval, they could put it back to the developer and say, we're not gonna approve you until you fix this problem. They don't necessarily have to send it back to you. Okay. They could motion to have it sent all the way back, but, typically, with city council, they'll be like, yeah. Once you fix these things,

either it's a conditional approval or they'll table it. Okay. Because I'm just saying if we had to do, like, eight steps, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. No. And that's why,

typically, for the mixed use projects where you're not the ultimate land use authority Great. We have you just recommend it and move on. If if this was and this is kind of a difficult thing where the developer is saying, yes. We think it meets, and the city is saying, no. We don't think it does. It it ultimately depends on the land use authority, the city council to make that decision. So I think holding them up here would be unnecessary.

And sometimes that will change what they present to us and what they present to city council. Be met with us. So they can decide to take their chances with what you know, the same argument they've put to us, they can put to city council, or they can redraw it and put it to city council. Right? They can do either way.

Yeah. You know, if if there's a major change, then, typically, we want that to start over. In this case, with this development, that didn't happen for a bunch of different reasons I won't get into now. But, yeah, I mean, if they're just gonna go in and modify the open space,

that wouldn't be something that they would have to start over. Right. Right. K. Sorry, Ned. I didn't mean to cut you off. So the motion is that we move this forward to the city council with a non recommendation because of the lack of Recommend. Not approval.

No approval. Yeah. Okay. No approval.

Recommend no approval based on lack of common open space. That's my motion. K.

I'll second it.

Mike Mike's concerned. Okay. I'll let's take a vote. All those in favor of the motion to not approve or recommend not approval of this, please say aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye.

Any opposed?

K. K.

I think thank you. I think that's all that's on the agenda. Or is oh, there's a So we had a there's a discussion item next, but that particular item is to discuss a draft of an ordinance that I have not finished yet. And so I don't have language for you to review tonight.

Okay. Then we are apologize for that.

I've been busy trying to hire a city planner. You got one. Right? I I did We did get one. We're just trying to figure out the details of when she's gonna start. Okay. Did she work? No. Yeah. We can talk about it. Yeah. Alright.

So

So if you wanna just talk general transition zone, we can. I just don't have any language for traffic I think we'd let you take those notes from before,

then compile them and put them together, and then we can have something to look at. Yeah. Otherwise, you're gonna have probably two different comments. One from before and one from now, and then you won't know how to

And I like the comments we have before. I just haven't Right. Put them in writing. Alright.

So

I motion to adjourn.

Second?

All those in favor of adjourning this meeting, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Meeting adjourned. Thank you so much.

You just motion to adjourn. Alright. I cut the The live stream is still on. Michael, thanks for joining us via Zoom. I'm gonna end the Zoom and end the live stream. K. Bye, guys.