City Council 6.11.2025

Good. Thanks.

Ready? We're waiting. K. I'd like to welcome everybody out to the Hyde Park City Council meeting today, 06/11/2025 at 7PM. We will start with our open ceremony, our opening ceremony by council member Fowles. Yeah.

Our father in heaven, we are grateful that we can be gathered here this evening. We are grateful for this good city, which we have to live in and work in. We are grateful for those of our staff and their commitment to the day to day operations of the city. We're grateful for the citizens that live here. We pray a blessing on on each of them and help us as a community that we can work together and grow together and and do much good. We are grateful we can be meeting here this evening to conduct city business. We pray that we can do so and be kind and open and work together for the common good of the city. We pray for our good mayor out of town. We pray a blessing of health for him and safety and ask now that thou would be with us this this evening. We pray in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen.

Please follow me, amen. Pledge of allegiance.

I think flag of The United States Of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, and indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you, council member Fowles. Okay. We'll start with the approval of our minutes and our agenda this evening. Has everybody had a chance to look them over? Yes.

I I zoomed in to the last meeting from where I heard, which was, I think, everything and and saw the minutes. I didn't have anything to change to correct.

Awesome. Is that right? You're good. Good. K. Well,

I move that we adopt and approve the minutes from 05/28/2025.

I'll second it. So we have a motion and a second. Motion by council member, and a second by council member Allred. All all in favor? Aye. Any any opposed? Alright. We'll move on with our agenda tonight. We'll start with our citizen input. Questions and comments for the mayor and council should be limited to not more than three minutes. This is a time for and place for any person who wishes to comment on non agenda items and items that are relevant to the authority of the city council. Items brought before the brought forward to the attention of the council will be turned over to staff and to to provide a response outside of our city council meeting. Is there any public comment this evening? Okay. Seeing none, then we'll close that section of our meeting and move on to council business. First, we have police department update.

Fantastic. So a few months ago, I was asked to start breaking out the stat numbers for the department. And as a department, what the officers were spending time or how they were spending their time in Hyde Park in particular on that. And so what you see in front of you is reflective of that. This last week, we had a 147 calls between the two cities. 29 of those calls were for Hyde Park. And as you see, for instance, the first one, our highest number of calls were the animal problems represented 20.7% altogether of the calls. And then as you go down, these were the calls that we handled in particular. The accident property damage, the medicals, the traffic offenses. We had a vehicle burg that we were dealing with this week. And you can see that breakdown. I also put on there the traffic stops that were involved. There were 15 in Hyde Park in particular. Out of that, we ended up having a 67% warning to a 33% citation ratio on that. That is a good ratio. We're not heavy handed. We're still holding those accountable that need to be, but we're also trying to change behavior. That's the whole purpose of that. And that bottom graph I wanted to put on mainly to kind of keep you updated as to where we were compared to last year. So we have seen an increase in calls this year on as a department. The May '31 we are up 5.5% increase from calls. So in 2024, this time last year, we were twenty two forty one and we're at twenty three sixty four now as of May 31. So we are seeing an increase there and the officers are out more. But with that, our stops have gone up. Our arrests have gone up, our other things have gone up in proportion to that. And that's also reflective of what we're seeing in the city too with the number of people that are coming in and and homes and things that are being built. There's just a general increase altogether with that. The The second page that you have in front of you are the calls at North Logan that we took with North Logan. They handled 118 calls for service and their site to warning ratio was a 73 warning to a 27% citation ratio on that. And then I have the same graph for the calls for service on that. That is significant again with what we're seeing for this particular week, June 1 to June 7. What it ended up the final number ended up being about a 20% calls for Hyde Park and 80% for North Logan that the officers were obligated in their time to investigate or to handle on that. I wanted to give a few other updates. We have hired one. He is starting Friday, an officer, and I've extended another officer or another offer to an officer. And hopefully, I'll hear back from him by the end of the week on whether or not he's going to accept that. So that is good. That will also help with patrol and help ease some of the strain on our guys that are working right now. Chief, where where will that put you in in term of officers? We'll be down two at that point is all. It'd be still too short if Yeah. The second one accepts. So Yeah. Okay. And I'm optimistic and talking with him today. Right before I came here, I'm optimistic that he's going to accept that. Okay. And so that is good for us. He has some experience. It it would be a good addition to RPD Okay. On that. So to follow-up with councilman Allred, the I made a request, a formal request to Cache County Sheriff to their motor division to help with the city celebration parade on the nineteenth. I haven't heard back yet, but I talked to the lieutenant today and he felt like that could happen. And so that has gone out. And then lastly, I wanted to address a concern that's come up with e bikes. There's it's warmer. There's a lot of kids that are riding these e bikes. Essentially they are a vehicle on the road. They're interacting as a vehicle. But there's little to no training. There's no licensing requirements that goes on there. And so it's becoming a concern a major concern for citizens in Hyde Park and in North Logan. The other things that we're seeing where citizens are becoming frustrated and confronting the kids and and getting involved that way and that they shouldn't and ended up with with charges and things. So I don't know if if many of you know this or not, but I was I was elected to be on the Utah Chiefs of Police board of directors here in March. And at this last meeting in May, I brought that concern up to the to the board and said, this is a problem we are seeing here. And it was unanimous through the state, the chiefs that were there. They're like, St. George is having a problem. You know, Centerville is having a problem. We're having a problem. The sheriff's having a problem. So to address that, they have created a legislative work committee that is going to start looking at the concerns and possible solutions that can be addressed in this next session and to hopefully help curb some of those problems. And so that is a good thing moving forward. I feel like we, as a small agency, can offer some insight that that the big agencies might not have or concerns that they may not have. So that that's a good thing. I'm hoping that we see some things coming out of that for the ebikes and for the citizens here

on that. Go ahead. I've noticed too in my neighborhood, like, little mini motorcycles that will get

zoom all over the neighborhood on. Is is is that what we're we're referring to? Because, I mean, I've got an ebike, and I can't do what I see kids do on these other bikes, you know, out here in Middle Lions Park and doing this kind of stuff. Is that what we're really talking about? These little I don't know what they call them. I can't remember. They've got a little name. It's classified as an ebike. It's really an electric motorcycle.

Electric dirt bike per se. They the state has broken them up into three classes. Class one, two, and three. Three being the highest and the fastest. It has what they call a throttle assist. It goes over 28 miles an hour. There are some rules on the books with that right now. Kids under 16 cannot operate a class three bike. They are supposed to be older before that happens. But the problem that we're seeing is that the parents are like, oh, you need to go to football practice or this practice. And so they provide it for them without that understanding. And the kids, like you said, have little to no experience with vehicle dynamics or the laws of the road or yielding rights on that. And they're quick. They have a lot of torque. And so you see the kids popping wheelies and riding down the road. And as they're bouncing up on that one wheelie, they're going into oncoming traffic and back. And it is a danger to the road. There have been some deaths in the state so far attributed to e bike operation in juveniles in particular. So that is some of this frustration that we're dealing with and we're asking for help from the public. If if you're seeing that type of thing in your neighborhood, please come let us know. We have started to cite the juveniles for reckless driving in that matter, especially if they've been warned and it's documented two and three and four and five times down the road that there comes a point when it's time to say enough is enough for their safety, but also for the citizens that they're coming across as they're going down the street. Anyway, that is the update that I have, and and we have commission meeting tomorrow. So What what do you think the resolution is gonna be on that licenses? So so part of that is similar to what they did with the OHV vehicles. There was a a training requirement that was in place with that for them to get their their operator certificate. Whether that involves a safety course, I don't know. But at the very least, there ought to be some type of training that is required with that. I feel a lot of it needs to be an awareness on the parents' part. I admit I'm tempted to buy my kids that. And, like, that'd be awesome just to send them down the road and say, be be careful. You know? But with that, kids are our kids, they're young, they're inexperienced, on that. And so it becomes a danger to themselves without without that proper education on it.

Where are we on the deer mitigation process? Poor Mark Ashcroft got hammered, I guess, a couple weeks ago with lots of stuff he had planted and, you know, same thing over and over every year. So I'm just kinda Yep.

And that was the last thing that I had on there. I'm pleased to say that the DEAR plan has been signed. So we brought it in on Tuesday, Monday, Monday, and it was signed on there. So what I'm waiting for now is the registration number for the Division of Wildlife on that. They send us back that and say it's approved. Officially, I have not allowed or the deputy is not allowed to actually start that harvest until August 1. That is what the law says on there. But once that happens, as I talked with mayor Cox, the heaviest hit areas, mister Ashcroft's property and some of those major concerns are the ones that we're gonna be focusing on first. But there's no back and forth as far as changes or what needs to happen or approval. It's it's been approved. We're just waiting for the signatures and the registration number to come back.

Is there an end date on that? End date. Through?

August 1 through October 1 on that. And what that allows over a three year period, it's a hundred and twenty year that can be taken. So roughly forty per year on that.

And I'm also guessing we're seeing some good results for the speed trailer. I happened to be out on my bike a couple weeks ago and rode by it, and I thought, well, let me just stop here. And sure enough, people are speeding, and that started flashing, and they were slowing down. I don't know. Maybe Maybe it's because I stand in there taking pictures just because I thought it was kind of fun. But It it is incredible to see what that does.

For example, when we had the speed trailer up on 3100 North and for that seven or eight day period that we had it there, there were 29,800 and something cars that came down that in that time period. And out of that, our highest speed was 76 going up the hill right after school just being let out. And then our eighty fifth percentile was 36. We did see a calming influence as we had the lights set to flash at a certain speed. You would then see a decrease in the speed too. So there was a calming influence. Those things are important because it helps us decide a a flashing light would be good here. Like, it has use here. It is doing what it's intended to do to slow people down. What I need to start working with Marcus or seeing, I guess, is the request of where we need that speed trailer here in Hyde Park as well. We've had multiple requests of need it here. We need it here. And so we're playing catch up trying to move it everywhere. But as we do that, then we can generate that report and give the the numbers the time of day that enforcement would be most beneficial. Your highest speeds are between this time and that time. Those are things that help us decide the enforcement. So it's it's fantastic. It's gonna be good. Wish we had two. Thank you. So Awesome. Any other questions for the two?

Well, we appreciate everything you do for on behalf of our city. Thank you. We'll move on to mayor and staff reports, Marcus.

Thank you. The the mayor's absent. I have uploaded the tonight's city council staff report to the box folder. It's a little lengthy, so don't necessarily wanna read the whole thing. Then maybe I'll turn it over to the city council if you have specific questions about any of the items related to our project for roads or parks and trails or developments. Any questions?

Just appreciate appreciate this document and the time to put it together. I think it's a great way to, you know, keep us

involved and in loop on some of these things. So thank you for doing that. K. Couple of things we're pretty excited about. Number one, our new city planner starts next week, so I have most of the week blocked off to begin her training. And then we are planning on having him meet the candidates night for all of our city council candidates on September 25. More details will be coming soon. I don't believe we're gonna invite the mayor to be part of that because he is the only person running for office. So we'll reserve that time for the city council candidates, but more information coming soon on that.

And, Stephanie, if you'd be willing to see if your youth council, when you get one, would be would be willing to run that again or ask at least ask the questions. They don't have to run it, but ask the questions. Yes. So I can just say yes now. Remind me the date once more. September 25.

It looks like it's seven? Six? Yeah. Seven? Awesome. Alright. Thank you, Marcus. We'll now move on to the presentation from our on from on point surveys.

Plug in right here.

You

can see it. If I did it incorrectly,

Switch it over here. Oh.

There you go. Can

everybody see

that? Yep. It's it. And then I'll just run things from back here.

But let me before I before I begin to present to you, let me first introduce myself so that you know who I am and why I would even dare come here. And so I am my name is Ron Galey, and my work history was I was the research director for Zions Bank for many years. And then I went up to a bank up in Seattle, Washington Mutual Bank, and I was their research director for many years. And then I went to Coca Cola, and I was the research director for Coca Cola, responsible for all of Asia. And my job was always just to help the executives of whichever company I was with to make sound decisions with strategies where they're going to go, what they're going to do when they needed input from, well, the well, a variety of sources, but oftentimes just the public from people. And, I left Coca Cola, started my own company, and, along the way, a city manager asked if I would help them with a study. And I said, I have never done a study for a city. And he goes, well, I don't want the people I've been using. I want somebody who has helped executives make decisions. And And so I said, okay. Let's do it. And I I created a wonderful survey for him with that he loved, and I fell in love with what I did. And the thing that made it different than what he got before, before he would just get data, Lots of information, pages and pages of information, pages and pages of charts, and he couldn't make a decision with it. And usually, what he would do in the end was spend about a hundred hours getting a presentation ready for the city council, and then they still couldn't make a decision. And so I said, let's design it for decision making right from the start, and it was. Since then, I've helped over 50 cities now. We've done quite a few. A lot of my business is in Texas but I still have a lot in Utah. And I'm gonna show you some examples of some work that we've done locally here. Tremonton is one that I wanted to show you. So instead of giving instead of giving as a matter of fact, let me if you're gonna go hover around there, I'll just come right up here. Okay. Got it. Okay. So instead of giving them

a a a report, I gave them a dashboard. Mhmm. And so this is Marcus, oh, you wanna do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is

this the Is this am I consistent? Oh, that's only on the one side. That's a good idea. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Is that okay? Yes. So instead of giving them a report, we gave them a dashboard. The the dashboard makes it so that you can use it for for days and day months. You know, you just you can keep using this. You can also publish it for all residents to go through. So once you can use it and then residents can have it all. In Tremonton, we just presented last week this survey. You now because it's not on their website yet, but it will be. It will be. And we had so this one, they have a variety of parks, and they also wanted to explore potential new programmes, facilities, whatever they what was the future of their parks. That's what this study was about. My first study for for Tremonton, I'm going to show you this one. But my first study for Tremonton was how do we make Main Street cool? Like, what do you know, what what should we do to take Main Street from this to something that's really nice. And that really helped galvanize strength. I'm not gonna go through that one. I can go through that one if you want, but the only reason I wanna show it to you is we we showed a lot of pictures in the survey that help people know what we're talking about. Main Street beautification ideas, what about lights, what about wayfinding signs, Things like that. And then overall, we wanted to find out what should we prioritize. Should it be way finding signs which that we asked about, or should it be indoor, outdoor dining options, which most people said, oh, that's where we gotta focus our attention. So the surveys are used for decision making. I'm gonna come to the parks one because I think that's a topic that you have spent time wondering about and and and trying to plan for. And so let me show you this one for Tremonton. In Tremonton, we had five twenty seven people who responded to the survey. You have 5,000, almost 6,000 residents, right? And I live in Elkridge, Utah. We have about 5,000 ourselves. In Elkridge, we typically get 700 to eight fifty participants. I suppose in a place like Hyde Park where you have good resident engagement, we'd also do the same. So getting about 20% of your adult population is probably realistic. And so it'll be probably somewhere within the 500 to 700 or so range of participate participants. We'll talk more about that. In this one, we ask which of the two parks in or which of all of these parks in Tremont and do you most often visit? And so people would tell them, oh, most I go to Jeanne Stevens Park. Very few go to Civic Center Commons and very few go to Harris Main Street Park along the Moab River. So this was the introductory question. Then for each park, if they used it, Breach Park, if they used it, we went into a little bit of a deep dive just for the two parks that they use most. That kept it instead of rating every single park, you know, it kept it more practical for them and short. And you know, these are the users. Quite often, 4.3 times in the summer per month, 4.7 times in the spring, quite a bit more in the spring, a little bit less in the fall and hardly at all in the winter, which you would expect. And for each park, we had it rated on a safe feeling and cleanliness and desirability of disability access and trash and trees. And then we also rated the things, the facility features that are in that particular park. Different parks had more, different parks had less. So we rated those so you could see some problems with the tables and the restroom and the picnic shelters, but the fields are doing pretty good. Right? So you could see it. We did that for all of the parks. You know, they would go through. And also for each park, we asked them to and it's kinda hidden underneath, but there it is. Tell us about the park. Like, what do you think? And so, optionally, please share any comments about the park. And it feels less safe because of the amount of transient traffic that is at the park. A female, oh, this born in 1993, and children in the household, and she's lived in the city for five to nine years. So we don't know everything about this person, but we know a little bit about who they are. And I need to get that age thing fixed, and I presented this to them, but I didn't pay attention to that. When we after we went through each of the parks that people used, then this is kind of where some of the power is. Then we take the poor, very poor ratings. So these are only the poor ratings. And on one page, we show all of the features and all of the parks. And they can look at this, and they can go, oh, well, the parking stalls in Meadow Park are really bad. And also in North Park, but they're okay in you know what I mean? So you can look where the negative ratings are high, Meadow Park, restroom. It's interesting when I showed them, they said, I'm surprised they got that eye. But it did shed a light on where you can focus most easily. We did a very similar thing for Burley. Burley, Idaho had a lot of parks and a lot of features. And after we did all of their 14 parks, they could, at a glance, see the problem areas for each of their parks. And they could say, okay. Well, this next couple of months or so, let's work on anything 40% poor or worse, and then we'll fix those things. And then next couple of months, we'll go down to those that are in the thirties. And then, you know, so they they created a little plan of addressing the issues

that they wanted. I just love that. That's just great. You can look at it and go, well, picnic tables are a problem in almost, you know, all the parks and, you know, trashy stuff. I mean and Right. First said, which parks, you know, going, you know, up and down north and south. You know? Yeah. It makes it super easy to look you're right. The picnic tables, by and large, are more negative.

And so, anyway, very helpful. So this is the kind of thing we could do. Now in Tremonton, after they oh, and then we also rated the attributes. Remember up above, all parks were rated the same these same five attributes. And they're all pretty good, except for that Meadow Park does have some problems with not feeling safe and and also the Civic Center. But there are not many people in the Civic Center Commons, but they didn't like the landscaping. But, just something for you to think about. We next the next thing that we did for them, they had a lot of I new ideas, things that they wanted to do that might be useful. And they wanted to find out, hey, if we do and this is also they were things that were existing and things that were not existing, but they were just trying to find out which ones would families use. So they said, which of these current and possible indoor sports and fitness amenities is your household most likely to use if the city offered them? And so they they a lot of people like the idea of of an ice rink and then playgrounds and pickleball courts. So they were able to come down, and indoor tennis is pretty low, you know, but it really helped them see in a big hurry. And a lot of people, we gave them an other option, and a lot of people put in, you know, the things that they wish that they could have. And this is all the 11%, and I wanna change this for them. I showed it to them just it was just yesterday, and I agreed to them I'm gonna put a number of people who said this thing instead of a percentage, which will be more practical. Cause 27% of 11% is not that easy to sort through. But if it says eight people, you've got your eye you've got your eye around it. Outdoor sports, pickleball courts, outdoor fields, disc golf. They were kind of interested in that disc golf and it came off okay, even better than the golf and they have a big course there. So they could see what really came off really well. And the same thing with outdoor amenities like a swimming pool or, you know, we had all of the things in here from highest to lowest what people wanted and the Gaga ball pit didn't do so well. And the trail amenities are here, you know, and they they we looked at the various different walking and hiking and various trails that we could do. Mountain bike trails, bike paths, education or or or storybook trails, etcetera. So that this is what we did. Now after we did all of these things and people picked what they liked, then we asked them to prioritize the things that they liked across all of the attributes. And so on this page, we're picking everybody's top two out of all of the things that they were interested in. And so on this one page, although we went through four different areas of information, this puts it all together oops. This puts it all together in a practical way and starting at the top and going down to the bottom, they can see where people prioritize things. And that just made it super easy for them to say, well, we didn't think they wanted the pool, but clearly they do. And, you know, and so forth. So I'm gonna pause. Like, I've talked quite a bit, but I'm gonna pause, and why don't I answer some questions? And then I can show you more if you wanna see other things.

So to get to this process pre survey, could you talk through When we wanna do a survey? Yeah. If you if you want to do a survey,

then the first thing we could do is figure out what you want to do. And I maybe I haven't done exactly what you want to do, but close to it with other surveys. So we could, we could show, I could show you, oh, yeah, this will work, the structure, but we want to put our things in here our way. And so, so me with a little show and you with a little tell, I'll know what you want to do, and then I would design a survey. And then we'd get together and refine it. And maybe that'd take us a couple of weeks, you know, where we we talk or whatever. And and maybe I'm working with Marcus or maybe I'm working with your parks and rec people, whoever. And then we bring to you, like, the best ideas, and then you refine it and get us to another place. It usually takes us about two weeks, sometimes three weeks to get to a final survey, and then we program it. And when we program it that then we test it for about two or three days. We just allow you to share it internally and make sure with everyone that it's working well. And after we say, okay, we're gonna go for it, then we launch it. Now we launch it using the communications approaches that are available to you in your city. So in in Payson, I'm working with Payson. They give me their utility billing list. I send out emails to them, and then I give them links as a link that they can put on their website, a different link that they can do for their for for social media, a different link that they might wanna use for posters that are around, a different link that they want to use for the newsletter, whatever the they want to put it in, and a QR code for the newsletter so that people can use their phone and just click to go in. But we'll use whatever communication the case methods you have. Some cities have chosen to also do a mailer to people. It's a little bit more expensive. You know, we just gotta consider the cost of postage. And but that can work sometimes to get renters, but so does Facebook and so does social media and so forth. So we we would just design a plan to touch every resident who we can. And so do you track who uses what method? Can it take the survey? Because And so it's the exact same survey link, but there's a little indicator on it too that says, oh, this came from the website. Oh, this came from, you know and so I'll I'll show you for this particular one. This is Tremonton, and oh, I'm gonna go to this one. I'll go to Burley's. Oh, this is funny about Burley. So distribution statistics. So 20% came in from email, and 9% came in from the newsletter, and 3% came from the website, and 4% from a flyer, and 64% from social media. Normally, it's not so high. But I did a comparison of the results by how they came in and they were the same. So or practically the same. It seems that I think the flyer was low, and I don't know where that went, but there weren't very many of them. And then in this is unusual, but it's true. In Burley, 87% used it on their mobile device. That's probably because of the social media thing that was so high. But it is usually about 60% come in, from their mobile device, and about 40% usually come in on a computer. That's very normal. This was a thirteen minute survey. That's an ideal length. Ten minutes or so is really about what we would wanna be no longer usually, but they had some things they needed to find out. And then we did it both in English and Spanish, but, you know, we had a lot of Hispanics take it, but almost all of them did it in English. And and and but they did we did have some take it in Spanish. So that's kind of the distribution. So when we distribute it too, we leave it normally open for four weeks. So if you keep track of the timing I did, three weeks to develop it, one week to test it, four weeks to field it, and then I normally have it to you one week later. Makes sense. So it's yeah. It's about nine weeks. And sometimes it's just, like, a couple of days later. And the reason why it takes a couple of days later is because we often get comments. In Tremonton, we ask them, please feel shared feel free to share any final thoughts or suggestions regarding city features or current recreation facilities or parks. If you have any hobbies that you'd like the city to let us know, you know, you'd like the city to support, let us know. Well, nobody mentioned hobbies. But I will say that a 174 people gave a comment, and we grouped those comments into themes so that you can see that about six percent of these commenters talked about dog parks and and and pet friendly spaces, and 7% mentioned pickleball courts. And then if you go to the next page, we have the actual comments. So these are the actual comments. And if I wanna, let's say, I you know, I'm in the parks group, and I wanna understand pickleball courts, then you can pick to see the pickleball court comments, and here they are. So, you know, it makes we make it really easy to for you to get your handle on what it is people are saying about a specific theme. And it's not a 100% right. Like, it's about 95% right because we use automation and us, a little bit of blend, you know, and the automation gets it mostly right, but it's oftentimes a lot of comments to look through. But, anyway, 95% of time, you're gonna be spot on with these comments. I don't think I showed you this on the side. I wanna do one other thing. I'm gonna go to the priority. Here are the priorities. We also give you easy filters. And so if you say, well, yeah, but what do the older people want? What are the people age 70, 60, 50? What do they want? And so then you can find out really easy among older people, younger people, moms with kids, old timers, people who've been here twenty years or longer, new new people. And all the thing oh, the people who live in one part of the area or another part of the area, all of that.

So Does this go to specific

household heads? Or Well, if we use your utility billing list, then it would go whoever's on that. So and we also allow the from the same household, we allow three three people to take a survey. We do check at three. Two, we don't even check, because it could be a husband and wife. And then the third three, we'll look. And four or more, we definitely screen those to make sure somebody's not cheating you. And we can we can tell question on how do you Yeah. We can tell. We use their IP address. Just turn them in. Yeah. How do you know that somebody didn't just Right. We use the IP address, and we can check. So somebody could say, well, they'll do two on their phone and two with whatever and two with something else. But there we've we've never had we've but then we also read the comments. And so we we can tell if you get somebody saying the same thing over and over, like, fix the pothole on Myrtle Avenue or something. Right? Then we can tell. So we have and I have had sometimes we've had, like, 12 to 14 from the same IP address, but it was, like, the library or something logical or or care center because all the responses were very different. And all of the concerns were very unique, and that allowed us to know that that was okay. Interesting.

Seems like it was so good.

I you know what? It really is. I do in Elkridge where I live, we we we've done three, and and it's been so helpful. It's been so helpful.

Yeah. When we talk about a master parks plan, I think this first step gathering that information would be helpful.

Do you ever do anything that goes beyond or parks or has had most of those? We do a lot, and I was hoping you would ask. And I'm going to show you results. I'm gonna go to Farmington, Utah. So Farmington, Utah. Okay. I'll I'll go to the 241. Okay. So Farmington, Utah, this particular survey is a general overview of all city services. It's it's whereas the parks and rec is a deep dive into a spur specific topic, this one is broad. It includes parks, but at a very high level. And so what we do in this case is we ask some very interesting questions. Like, would you refer the city to a friend? And and they would. Like, this is a really high number. Farmington did great. What about the direction of the city? Are we headed have things improved around here? Has it gotten worse? Are we going the right direction or the wrong direction? Compared to other cities, like, how are we? And if I go down to the benchmarks, like like, they did really, really well. It's like Farmington's way up here. You know, they're they would refer a friend. Although, you know, it's grown a lot. A lot of people says, maybe it hasn't improved. You know what I mean? But but they're also turning some of that around because going the right direction was in twenty twenty three fifty seven, but going the right direction is now 65%. So they use the survey to good effect, and they used it to to to really start going the right direction. Everything has improved, and you are where you are when you start. What do you do about it? And then you just shape the direction after that. Then we did a deep dive into several topics. City facilities. Look over the city facilities. Which two should the city devote more time and resources to enhance? Different facilities that were appropriate for Farmington and people picked 2% said the museum is where the city should devote more time and resources or arts and theatrical performances, but a lot of people picked the parks and trail system and swimming pool. If they did choose it as important, this is how we keep the survey slow shorter. They don't rate every question on very good to poor, but if they said it was important, they rate it. So then that just shaves off about 40 questions that they don't have to answer. But they if it was important to them, they said city parks is really important. And by the way, we're doing great. The trail system is also important, and we're doing great. So you don't have to worry about it. But the swimming pool is important, pretty important, and that's bad. Right? So this is really helpful to them. And as a matter of fact, we did this two years in a row for them, and the important attributes didn't even change hardly at all other than the city gym went up in importance. And then the poor, very poor ratings, the swimming pool went from bad to worse. So, you know, it's very helpful for them to see, and they're working on the swimming pool. And they also ask, would you pay you know, would can we raise our your taxes on fix the pool? And they got a yes. So it's that bad. But it was really helpful for them to have that. And then after doing the facilities, we looked at city offerings, like the small town feel and a great place to raise children and so forth, what's important to you. And going forward, we asked about growth and development issues. I know that'd be an issue for you here, you know, and we explored managing the growth and density of the city or attracting new retail business. So it's all, you know, and in farming in some places, attracting new retail business is the number one thing in growth and development, but not in Farmington. They're they're first thing at the seams with their growth, but, you know, people now do wanna make sure that it doesn't get out of hand. And so and then safety and security issues, and we do a deep dive on the safety and security issues, pedestrian safety. And, again, you can also do it by age or gender or where they live in the I didn't show you this, but we asked people where do you live in Farmington. And so they told us where they lived. And then if you go down to I was here on safety and security, you can say, well, what do the people think over an area too? Right? And so you can do that. And then we did operational issues for them and found out what it was. Now after we went through facilities, city offerings, growth and development, safety security, and operational, these five areas, people have rated about 50 attributes. And we then ask them, okay. Here's the ones you picked as most important. Which three are most important to you? And so people pick their top three, and that gave us the ability to prioritize across 50 attributes, the most important ones. And on this page, we're just showing the top 20. So this I just when I spoke with Farmington, I said anything in the top 15 is really probably really important to look at. And some things, they're really important and you're nailing it really good. Other things are important and you might wanna figure out a way to preserve that small town feel. Brainstorm on that, you know. Some things like minimize property taxes. I don't know if there's anything you can do about that. But, anyway, they wanted to ask it. And every city is different, and we just ask what and this is they wanted to ask that one. But that's kinda this can be very useful to you. Yeah. That's it's great information. And I think when we think about our master plan is gonna be, we're gonna have to Right. The whole budgeting starting that process again, and this would be And and and when we work with the city, if you do a three year agreement or a three study agreement, we bring the price way down. You know? So the I mean, because then I don't have to go find somebody, and we have this relationship. So you'll do three consecutive years at a different time? We can do three studies. And so so sometimes it's three consecutive years, but sometimes it's this study one year and a park study the second year or a park study the park study the first year and then a master plan the second study. You know, and then what anything you'd like to explore.

I think that might be worth Yeah. Looking into. I'd be interested in doing the three. What what

is the fee? What you charge? What's gonna cost? So let me tell you how it works.

I normally so hold on. Well, I'm gonna just give you my honest how things are. K. So first, if you just do a single study, I normally charge $19.09 60. You're going, no way. Then I come down to $14.09 60 if you do a multistudy agreement. But if you're a small town, I come down, and and and the multiyear agreement's $9,009.60.

Okay.

So for $10, you have to take $9,009.60, we could have three studies Each. Each for those three studies. Yeah. Yeah. Over Yeah. Over Yeah. And then years. Yeah. And then also,

like, I also in the agreement, I say, and if you're not happy, you don't have to do the second or third year. And the lucky thing is I've never had to worry about that. Yeah. So

I think it's well laid out, and it's good information. Like, if we applied that to our city, I think we could and I like that you're tracking how the information's coming in because I feel like that's a struggle we have is how are we communicating with our citizens and what's the best Yeah. In Farmington,

almost everything was with email, but they did just social media and a website and a newsletter and signs. So So we could learn a couple other things. We could I think that's it. Yeah. I think How best to communicate. Good. Well, and, also, we can ask questions like, what what communications would you like? So we have the main stir survey, but we also have room for any optional questions. And some a lot of explored communications, and some have, you know, have explored other things, hours, just a variety of things. Yeah.

I think it's something we should talk about further because Yeah. Definitely interesting

information. Because, I mean, when when we did the general plan

couple years ago, we're gonna need to get I mean, a portion of that was do a survey. And and open houses and trying to gather all of this information. Yeah. Yeah. And the beauty of an open house is it can give you some information, but oftentimes, you don't get enough. Right. Right? I would agree. Yeah. And and and this really helps you get in an easy to digest format. It it helps you get really thoughtfully, you know, broad information.

And all that what we just saw is out there on the web. Any citizen, anybody anybody anywhere can access that information and do all the drill downs and filters just like we did. Right? You know, that's exactly right. And in most cities,

the residents come and hold the council a little bit accountable for the banks. You know what I mean? They say, hey. The most important thing was this. And, you know, and I'm not saying that. Well, we're working at it. Don't worry. You know? And it but it it it kind of does hold each other a little bit accountable. And also, the the some voices are very loud about us, an issue that isn't that important to very many people. You know? And you can say, look, we'll get there, but we're gonna prioritize some of these things first. Right? And it's it's something you can do.

Yeah.

Great. Thank you, Ron. Do we have your contact info. Marcus has it. Correct? Yeah. We're good. K. Thank you. Thank you. Alright. Now we're gonna move on to our action items for this evening. First, we will consider the final plat and plan for Wolfpack Heights.

Yeah. Well, up update

on Do you wanna start with an update, Marcus, or do they have questions specific to this? Yeah. So I can give kind of a

summary staff report, if you will, of events up to this point. Excuse me. Wolfpack Heights subdivision was presented to the city council. Oh, god. It's been a while now. It was originally proposed to the planning commission with much fewer units and much less commercial space. And after the meeting where the planning commission wasn't very excited about it, it It was passed on to the city council in this new format as you see it today with more units and more commercial square footage in an effort to meet the requirements of the mixed use zone. When it was presented in the preliminary stage, the city council approved the preliminary, noting that the final submission would be subject to extra scrutiny because the city staff had not time had not had time to perform a full review at that point. In

May? Is that when you submitted the final? The final. Yeah.

April, May. They submitted for the final. Plan is as you see it today. It's gone through engineering review. The red line comments from Sunrise are in the box available for you to review. Really, it just comes down to a few key issues that the city staff and the planning commission disagreed with the developer on. First and foremost of those issues is the open space. There's some concern from the city staff that they're overall, they have open space, but the common open space, which would be an amenity or recreation area, there's a dispute there between the staff and the planning commission and the developer. The developer wants to count certain areas of the development as common open space, and we disagree, saying that that's not a space that's completely open for everyone, and the development's not immediately obvious that it would be a common area, such as these areas between the townhomes. That's more of an entryway to the home. I'm sure if the council wants to hear from the developer as to their opinion, they're I'm sure they're willing to share. And so in the end, this the minutes from the planning commission are also in box. The planning commission ended up voting to not recommend approval or to recommend not approval of the development to the city council. But since they're not the ultimate land use authority, they passed it on anyway. And so that's what's being presented here. That's a very short summary. There's a lot of notes in the box. I hope everyone had a time to review them and read through the different reports that have been submitted. If you have any questions specifically for me, I'm right here.

Do we do we have all the required documents? I mean, it seems like over and over again, we get kind of this final approval, and, oh, we're missing this or we're missing that or then we well, we're contingent on getting all this stuff fixed, and I don't know if everything is was in box or not. I'm wondering, like, landscaping plans and lighting plans and on you know, all the things that are required

for this final Yeah. So as far as what's required by ordinance, there's a couple of what I would call smaller items that usually we give the developer some leeway on. Well, one of them is not as small as the HOA, CC and Rs. We've asked for those a couple times. The biggest concern with that is they're counting the clubhouse also as commercial space. In our commercial zone, we allow an event center. And so what they're proposing is that the clubhouse would be available to rent as an event center. And so we want to see those HOAC C and Rs to make sure that it's in writing that they're going to allow that to be rented out to the general public. Also, we require that any HOA CC and RS be submitted with the final. So we haven't received those yet. There's also the matter of the water dedication for the indoor use. They're using secondary water for the outdoor watering, so the city is not concerned with getting water rights or shares dedicated for the outdoor use. But we haven't received an official I have an email saying what they estimate the usage to be, but I don't have a plan from them as to with if they have water rights ready to bring it to the city or if they're gonna pay the fee in lieu of that. Again, that's that's a pretty small thing. And then, you know, if if you wanna be ticky tacky, they haven't submitted, like, a sign plan, which is technically required by the ordinance. We typically let developers just kinda bring those as they need them. So there's a handful of smaller items that way that we're still missing. The HOI CC and Rs would be probably the biggest one that we're still looking for.

Okay. Thank you. Question about the 250 foot requirement along on the West Side that borders the highway. Mhmm. It'll only be commercial.

What about it? We have that phase as commercial. What's that? That final phase is commercial.

So so right. And I guess I'm wondering looking at that, where where does that 250 be? I couldn't tell. I mean, there's a 900 something here. I mean, is it

is it As far as I can remember, it's approximately when you're getting into these parking stalls right here up against the residential units or perhaps it's a little closer to the commercial stalls, but it's right in that Right in that. Parking area. The city staff, we basically said, yeah. That's you know what I mean? Residential units within that buffer, so that meets the requirement.

I guess and part of the reason I ask is I'm wondering about, is that a pitbull ball court and a playground in commercial space? And to me, that just doesn't that doesn't fit the way I understand.

The ordinance? The ordinance. Right. Oh, that is my same concern is the accessible open space. And developer maybe wants to come and address this, and it's all stepping into the final phase other than these smaller hashed out little areas through the community.

We have addressed that pickleball court and playground, though, before having a concern about kids walking through a commercial parking lot.

If I may, there was a comment from the planning one of the planning commissioners thought a pickleball court located on that side of the housing units might actually be benefit because they can be very noisy. So that wasn't necessarily seen as a huge negative by the planning commission. The more the concern of the planning commission was the overall number of amenities seem to be lacking in the development. As you can see, there's the large the larger ones are your play area and pickleball court up there where we're referencing before. There are hashed out areas in pretty much every chunk of townhomes, we'll call it, where that's outlined to be a future barbecue pad or workout station or sitting area or some it was even referenced at the planning commission meeting. It could be a small playground. And then there's this larger play area with a pergola or gazebo or, you know, nicer sitting area. And, of course, the pool and the clubhouse get to count as amenity space. Those are those are awesome. And so, overall, the planning commission's concern was, yes, there are amenities, but they seem to be very spread out, and there doesn't seem to be enough to meet that requirement of 50%, common open space.

We're talking 250 units. Is that correct? Two hundred and fifty one? Two hundred fifty residential units between the townhomes and the

units on top of the commercial along Wolfpack. I

mean, yeah, that's just I just don't see the the space that's usable for 250

families. Right. Yeah. And I I recommend that you give the applicants some time to come up and express their point of view. You know, we wanna make sure that Yeah. They're Jake. As well. Jake, if you'd please

who's the developer? I'd I'd I'd prefer if I could just I'd like to talk with you first, if that's okay. I mean so you you've heard some of the concerns. Sure. Yeah. But, I mean, I'm just looking at it and going, just you've heard it from at least three of us. I don't know, Kirk, what you're thinking about. Yes. I'm having a hard time with it. So all four of us that are here tonight are concerned about With the amenities? With the amenities. Yeah. And and like with Marcus mentioned, seasonal, my voice is really harsh. I can't talk for you. Hopefully, you can hear me. Just talk really well into the microphone. Again. What's such is it that one?

The hashtags on there are the amenity space, which could be a playground, could be barbecue pits. It could be a variety of things. We could be more specific, but it is very open to those types of things. Workout equipment. Bridgeland puts those I don't know if you're familiar with Bridgeland Meadows. They put them along the walkways. As you walk through those paths, they have it randomly scattered throughout the project. And this was months ago, Marcus, seven, eight months ago, that was something that he was very much in favor of, and that's definitely still a possibility as far as the amenity usage. A pool and clubhouse, I think, we've done a number of these projects. Excuse me. Anything over a 100 units. We typically put in a clubhouse and a pool. It's usually expected with something along the size of this. Pickleball, we have had pickleball complaints in in residential units that we've had in the past when you say, why is it so far away? You hear the I was told about my wife. We just had a baby. If she heard that noise late past 07:00, I think she'd go out and murder somebody if she heard that noise. And that's why we we kind of displace it back into the corner like that because it's again, it's something that's very popular right now, and we have a little sitting area next to that to accommodate, you know, a family or or someone to to sit. And and, you know, if their family members are playing pickleball, they can have a a place to sit down. So, gosh, like I I like I I mentioned, we've we've done projects like this in the past. And the amenities that we have, I think, you know, I think accommodate a lot of these. I agree that the hashtags are I don't think they don't show. I think you go up in the right hand corner of this. It shows more of the usage of the open space there. But the hashtags, I don't think, properly show what the usage could be in the situation, which I said is a playground or a variety of other things that could be used here. So I guess when I look at that

comparing now to the size of the units, they look to be, you know, maybe half the size of the units. So they're they're not gonna be any more than about

15 by 20, give or take. And a lot a lot of these feel they're gonna be smaller families. And and what you're gonna see is there there could be a space for a larger playground. I agree. I've done another project with you guys, and there was a variation of a a a playground that was for older kids, and another playground was for younger kids. And I think we could accommodate something along those lines with this particular area.

But that variations in in a space that's only that big. And then, you know, I'm just thinking if I'm I live down here in in the very bottom, I guess you've got, you know, and I'm in Unit 34. How do I get up to my buddy up here in 196? And I'm gonna walk either all the way out and around in the street, or I'm gonna walk through the playgrounds, these other amenities that that are breaking up the buildings. I just don't You'll have the sidewalks that go around these playgrounds, so there's still walkable areas.

Yeah. I just It's called the thinking curve, and then they still have the walkways that go around these play areas. They still make them walkable. I mean, I'm just struggling with you calling them play areas.

I mean, they're no bigger than a than a parking stall. Sure. That's not a play area. You you you you with with by the time you I Jake, I I just I just can't call it a play area when it's the size of a parking stall and you're gonna have a sidewalk going through there, and that's the only way I get north to south through this this. So I'll be quiet and let some others talk here for a minute or two.

I Well Go ahead, Seth. I yeah. I would like to see some more green space in there, play area more centralized, not where you'd have to walk through a parking lot. Yeah. It more green space would make it look more elbow room and less crowded. It looks very crammed in there.

Stephanie, if if I could interject in defense of the developer, and I try try to be neutral, There is sufficient open space or green space to meet the ordinance requirement. The issue is the city staff does not agree with the developer counting some of these areas as also amenity space. For example, this the areas between the townhomes where you have the grass that's right in front of the townhome with the sidewalks through it, the developer's counting that as common open space. City staff and the planning commission said that seems more like we'll definitely count it as a general open space, but that doesn't seem like the great example that was brought up on the planning commission is the person who lives in Unit 227 is not gonna go set up a family picnic in front of Unit 167. You know, it's it's not an obviously open to a community area. Even though it is, it's owned by the HOA. It's gonna be general open space. But the community people living in those communities, you see that as kind of a personal front yard. So that was a conflict. There's plenty of open space to meet the requirements. What the planning commission felt was lacking was specific amenity areas.

So maybe I should clarify by saying community open areas.

Yeah. It looks like it needs more community opening. And I think if we're being real like, someone is going to have to walk across the parking lot to access those areas in a development like this. Like, they will have to travel, you know, to access the areas, but I agree with the city staff's view that this right off the front port like, right off of your front porch is maybe not community open space. It is open space, but I don't think it is usable as community open space.

Well and and I see that it looks like a big chunk of the open space just happens to be along the highway. That's great for everybody driving back and forth, but it doesn't do much for the 250 homeowners or townhouse owners. I mean, that's Right. You know, it's either behind the commercial building down there on the Southwest Corner or it's out along the highway or I mean, open space in a nice big island that people will enjoy when they're in the drive through. I you know, I just I look at that. I'm going like

I just don't think it meets our intent as wanting to provide open space for residents who live there. Sure. They're probably not gonna go hang out by the highway.

So I wouldn't hashtags that are meant to be used as amenities. Is that is that something that you guys foresee being usable if it was made bigger?

Is that is that what Yeah. Like, could you combine some and make it, like, a more of a gathering spot for the community? Yeah. Yeah. I think, like, something

So there's a few things, guys, that we're looking at as far as

Yeah. So Sure. Thank you. I can't be. I'm Craig Winder. I'm Jake's attorney. I live here in Cache Valley. I represent a lot lot of land developers. I am a land developer. I understand this is a difficult process. And what we'd like to do is propose something to the city council from a place of accommodation. For the record, and we want this to be on the record, we believe that what you're looking at right now meets the orbits. So we disagree with the planning commission with respect to what qualifies as common open space. That being said, we want to be accommodating. We want the city to like this project. So what we'd like to do, if I may, show you something. And and at the end of, you know, our time here, we are gonna be asking for approval that's conditional. Conditioned upon us modifying this plat to be consistent with what we're showing you, again, as an accommodation in our attempt to address what the planning commission's concerns were. So if I can

hand something out. And as you do that, I guess I just ask what your definition of common open spaces so that we're at least have that understanding. Sure.

And what you'll see what you'll see in the blue and candid oh, sorry. Let's give some, you know, copy to Marcus. What you'll see in the blue and candidly, I wish it were not blue because it looks like we're proposing three gigantic swimming pools. We are not. What we're proposing is some pocket parks, where that blue is represent. Now let me tell you what this means to us. It means that we're giving up six townhome units. Six townhome units is actually a lot. This represents our desire, again, to address the planning commission's concern specifically with respect to the location of open space. What you see up on the screen here, the planning commission had a real problem with where it was located. You see the lawn, you know, close to the the, highway there that we were counting as open space. Under what I'm showing you, we still meet the requirement, but we're not even counting any of the frontage, any of the green that's close to the highway in our calculation. So and and and we are likely to go ahead and put lawn in there anyway. K? So it's not subtracting anything. We're adding some things. But even if we don't count any of the commercial area as open space, we still meet the requirement with these three pocket proposed pocket parks. Now this was done quickly. Right? I'm I'm looking at this right now, and I'm thinking, well, we we could maybe align them so that, you know, they can look into each other. We can look into doing something like that with the design review committee. Right? So that's what we're proposing. These are central pocket parks. We are happy to include features in these pocket parks. You know, barbecue pits, playground equipment, things of that sort that make them truly usable. Right? That make according to the city's definition of usable. Now I don't wanna keep talking. Do you have any questions about

what we're what we're proposing here? Was this talk to the commission?

I'm sorry? Was this our idea or proposal? No. This is in response to the commission's Okay. To the most recent meeting with the client. That's my question. Yes. Now I will also say this. The pickleball court and the playground area have been switched so that and, again, this is in response to the planning commission's concern about why do we have a play area so close to the commercial building. What we've done is we've tucked that right behind the the residential, and we could probably provide some access to that along the north end. I don't tell me if I'm talking out of turn, Cody. But we could probably just extend the sidewalk all the way to that play area along the north end, and then you've still got your pickleball court, which, again, we did put that there intentionally because pickleball courts can be loud late at night.

Which is another reason to do the survey so that we can say, we need a pickleball facility courts somewhere away from where everybody's living, then that way we can have other amenities. Yeah. Sure. Right. But, anyway, now with respect to

the the location of the pool and the clubhouse, if you look at Bringhurst, you'll see that the pool and the clubhouse were located centrally. We wanted to do something different, and we just wanted to share with you our reasons for putting the the pool in the clubhouse where they are. If we're agreeing with the city that we will make the clubhouse available for people to rent, for instance, we want that to be seen from the street. We want that to be seen as, well, something that the city intends it to be, which is usable by the public. And a a lot of designers, clearly not all of them, I'm sure, but a lot of designers like the idea, recommend the idea of putting the amenities out front so people can see it from the street. And if it is gonna be the public that's using it, at least some of the time, we'd like it not to be central. We don't want them driving all around through the neighborhood to get to that clubhouse. We want it to be right there with parking right there off the street. So that's why we put that there.

Why would we worry about having a clubhouse that servicing 250 families be available to the public? And would the public ever be able to get in there, and is it just the clubhouse, or is it also the pool? And what's the cost? No. That You know, I'd be like Yeah. That's just us meeting the requirements.

Right. The commercial requirements, Marcus, if you wanna speak to it. Yeah. Where they want to count it as part of the commercial, we require that it comply with a commercial use, meaning it's open and available for anybody to come and rent as an event center. So if they didn't if they wanted to close it off to the general public, they could, but then they can't count it as their overall commercial square footage.

I'm not sure that I care about the city having a clubhouse I don't think to be commercial. I'd rather have a retail I think it's bringing in sales tax.

There is a need in the community. Right? We have people that rent the city office all the time. And often, you can't get the city office to rent because it's overlap. People rent it out years in advance. Am I right, Donnie? They, like, book it ahead of time. So the it wouldn't be a bad idea to have another location in the community that people could have their baby blessing dinner at or, you

know They're they're very popular for, like, wedding receptions and small scale events. Like,

here at city office Yeah. Okay. It's maybe not a big I mean, it's not a big sales tax producing option for us as far as commercial, but I don't think it's a bad idea to have in our Okay. Community. I mean, that's You know? It's a different point of view. I'm like Just just about it. I need to hear. So Well, then if you happen to get a sandwich shop or something in Unit 243

A and a wedding reception right next door, that's not a bad gig either.

I do appreciate that thoughtfulness and and considering sacrificing some units on behalf of creating some more open space for this type of development. Do you know how, approximately, how big those are?

What did we say? Thirty hundred.

About 3,900 square feet each. Yeah. They're I mean, what? I mean, I I like the proposal. Sure. I mean, abs of course, I do. You don't wanna compare the two, like, oh, yeah. Now that's usable. Now you can call that a, you know, a play area. Sure. You know, it's, you know,

it's it's wide enough. It's deep enough. Just space then. Just for us. It would be green space with some features such as, you know, playground equipment, barbecue pad. Yes. Something along those lines.

And then to follow-up on Dave's question, is the pool included in that rental?

That's a good question. I I think it's just the I think it's just the clubhouse.

And then what we avoid the washing? Well, that's that's why I want a copy of those CC. And I'm sorry. Same. So I I think it was just for the clubhouse to be counted as commercial. We needed that to be opened to the public available, I should say, to the public. I mean, I just see a problem down this down the road with the HOS, and I can never go swimming there because it's the best pool in town, and Fowles has always got it rented for his outfit. And you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I would think so. I mean, that's a big expense to build and maintain a pool for an HOA. So

So that that's our pitch, is we we want to be amenable to the concerns of the planning commission. We do. We want the city council to like this. Right? We just wanted to make the point that we are doing this from a place of accommodation. We truly do feel that under the ordinance, we need it. But let's let's put our heads together. Right? And if and if we can have if we can go ahead and give up these six units, include some park some pocket parks, That's this is that's what we're asking for. We're asking for approval that's conditioned upon us, you know, revising the open space exhibit and the plat accordingly and essentially working with the design review committee to to get the little details cleaned up. That's what that's what we're asking the city council for tonight. Alright. There was a lot of,

things from the engineering.

Have you developed the CC and Rs yet? Do you have those?

No. I'm basic no. I can do the the

what's needed. Okay. And and we're we're happy putting together a checklist of those kinds of items to pass through the design review committee once once we've got approval here. Just checking those boxes. Okay. Yeah. And then the water your water shares,

are you gonna keep some to do

your outdoor water? Yes. Whatever's needed, and whatever's needed, I'll buy and move as well. So those will take Okay.

Can I give, please, my opinion and potential recommendation? This seems like a good solution. Of course, as with everything we do in the city, we'll need some time to really get into the details and to make sure that this works. I think if the city council wanted to make some kind of motion that this is conditionally approved just so they don't have to come back here, that might be okay. Although, there's probably gonna be some hefty conditions on it like we talked about. There's still quite a few things missing as far as meeting the the ordinance requirements. Like I said in the beginning beginning, they're minor. Also with the engineering red lines, most of them are resolved. However, there was one large outstanding concern with the stormwater pond. We weren't sure if we did our math wrong or if they did their math wrong, but it appeared that they only had about 30% of the required stormwater capacity. That red line was sent back to them to work on. So if this was conditionally approved, I guess the cleanest way to put a condition on it would be in approved pending that it meet the rest of the ordinance requirements and engineering red lines. I I don't know. Have to

put some shape to that if at all possible, with the understanding that, look, you know, know, either we meet the ordinance or we don't. Right? Right. Especially when it comes to things like water retention. That's that's a math problem. Right. And making sure that we're on the same page as to what our calculations are. Mhmm. So let me throw this out there then.

CC and ours. Yep. We need those.

So CC and ours, confirmation of stormwater calculation.

Right. Which, technically, we could loop into engineering redlines. Mhmm. Because there's a couple other just, like, minor cleanup items in there, just like locations of pipes and meters and stuff like that.

Revising the plan to accommodate these these three pocket parts. K. Will you also add the sidewalk to the pickle block? Oh, thank you.

Yes. I was trying to avoid having, like, a four paragraph motion, but it's that way we're gonna go, then that's fine.

We just we just wanna define Just wanna find size, know exactly what's gonna happen at Perfect. If it's granted.

I'll just tell you. I'm I'm of a mind that the ordinance is out there, and we're gonna say that you feel like you meet the intent of the ordinance with what's already there, but you're proposing to have more common open space. All the other requirements are out there that you should be bringing for approval, and you're not bringing them. I mean, you you you wanna play the, well, we meet this part of the code, but but we're gonna ignore bringing the CCNRs, and we're not gonna do this just yet. We're just gonna kinda you know what I mean? So well, I'm just kind of I just I guess I've seen in the few months I've been here that it's not just you. It seems like every development or a vast majority of developments come in, and and we're always passing stuff conditionally even though all the requirements are kinda there. You know, bring this plan or bring this plan and have the CC andRs and have these things and and come with it

all done and complete. And am I missing something? No. I'll speak to that a little bit, Dave. Really, what it comes down to is with any development, there's a huge administrative load regardless. And those sometimes, if most I'll even say almost every time. If the planning and the city council sees a development and is generally happy with it and we know that nothing's really gonna change, it doesn't make a lot of sense to just hold it up to come back again. Because either way, we're gonna do the engineering red line reviews. We have to get the stormwater, the sweat plans in place. They gotta get their permits to start digging the dirt. And so either way, I still have to wade through that mire with the developer, and sometimes it's just easier to not have to force them to wait a couple weeks to come back. Now is this maybe a risk? Sure. You're relying on the city staff to keep track of this. I I appreciate the very detailed motion because that actually helps us. So if, you know, if you want this to wait and come back, it's we're gonna probably have it press forward regardless. That's just kind of an extra step to make the developer wait through. So if you like, for example, if you said, no. This green space plan won't work. We want it redone. Then, yeah, you definitely want them to come back. But if the city council is generally nodding their heads and saying, hey. We like this. We're comfortable with this. Then in my opinion, let's make it a conditional approval so we can get this show on the road.

Okay. I mean and I I guess that's gonna be what the the DRC, Sunrise, you, all the staff folks are gonna make sure that every all the t's across. I mean, I I just looking at and when I look in box, you know, I I don't see a landscape plan. In phase one, I see four trees for, you know, 80 or a 100 landscape plan. I might not have put it in there, but I did submit a landscape plan, and that was reviewed by the DRC. Okay. Yeah. Because it's just I I'm not seeing very many trees. I don't see any you know, on what I'm seeing, you know, this, you know, I don't see any trees at Long Wolfpack Way, which I think are required. You know, it's just so I guess if I approve this, I'm also saying, well, I'm just gonna trust that the staff is gonna ensure that the final plan meets all of those requirements.

And And there's a lot of eyes that are gonna

Which is check all those boxes. Generally what we do. Yeah. And I know and I I've I I go to all those meetings with you with Sunrise, and I see what they're doing. And, I mean, I've just you know? And I also know about the pedestrian plan and, you know, how are people gonna walk through here. I I'm concerned about parking. You know? Where do I park if I'm gonna come and visit somebody, you know, over on the on the West Side? I'm gonna take up some pool parking or I'm gonna park out in front of the commercial spot because that's closer to where they're living. I mean, I just don't see centralized parking and, you know, I see those kinds of things and Yeah. And that one's tough because with the centralized parking, we added that into the 2015 edit of the ordinance. With the old one, it could be kinda sporadic, and that's when they submitted. And so the DRC would kinda submit You know, with the right thing to do with all the parking on the outskirts and make everybody walk inside or you know? That's that's whether the ordinance is at or not, I'm just like you know?

So let me add one more clarification here. What's being presented tonight is I mean, we've got an overall plan, but, really, we're just looking for the phase one. I mean, we're approving the whole thing. Right? But we're just getting the approval of the phase one construction drawings. And are you recording the plat for the whole thing or just for phase one? And the plat just for phase one. So the you know, you're you're signing off on this whole master development, we'll call it, then great. But the developer still has the option to come back and modify the other phases if they build phase one and people are asking for more open space in the development, they may come back and add more open space and delete a couple more units. Jake, could you talk to the phasing plan? Kinda what your thoughts are with that? Because and so we're we're proving the overall plan, but you're gonna do it. You're posing four four phases.

Yes. Four phases. Yeah. And the reason for that is we record the whole thing. I mean, it's just all at once immediate problem, positive here. It's just a margin. A bill of something of this size typically is a basement.

And so I mean, so you're gonna get phase one done, and at what point would you see going on to phase two? They would sell out. So so that's really your intent is to get phase one, get it built, get them sold, and then move forward. Okay.

There's variation in in bedrooms. Go from three bedroom to two bedroom bedroom. We get a lot of people wanting the two bedroom rather than the three. We can make that adjustment on set base. Allows us to take a breath and move the set base. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay.

Do you have I have you identified which of your like, your design building designs you're doing in the phase? Is it gonna be varied? Are they all gonna be the same in phase one?

It's been a while, but I have submitted elevations.

Yep. I've got those. Yeah. I mean, through

through picture, everything. I think So they'll vary within the phase. It was it was some it wasn't this this while ago, and it didn't it wasn't even there.

So I guess the the question is with Yeah. Since we've referenced Bringhurst, on their plan, they actually showed the categorize the unit types. Right? Like, floor plan a, floor plan b, floor plan c. And they showed on the plan how they were gonna mix the units to kinda comply with that requirement of the zone to have the units mixed. But I I think what you're asking is, how are you going to mix those units? Because we don't want a row of of all of these.

It's one. It'll be eight. They're all very color on the end. Yep. There won't be a same building next to

But those are like a fourplex? Is that like a fourplex? This would be like a fourplex for six. So that but that will all be the same, and then you'll have a separate a different design Building next to you. Will be as your other design. Right. Like, yours was wondering.

So Units 139 through 147 would potentially have the same look, but then 148 through 155 would be a different look.

Okay.

Yeah.

The photo, the picture there, though, whatever we're calling it, the design. To me, it looks like you've got some variation. There is. But I don't see that. It may on on the well, I think it looks to me like everything is just straight straight in the line. These are just Oh, you're talking about the text ID. The actual yeah. I mean, when I when I'm looking at your preliminary plat tables, I mean, they're all dress right dress. So they're just in a nice straight line, and and so that's different than what I'm seeing here.

It's open a little bit. It's a little better.

Okay. Because that's that would be a concern that, like well, I don't think that meets our code.

Would it be too much to ask for you to label which units are what building? Do you know that already?

I mean, that that would be great. I mean I think it would just be helpful to clarification. So sure. Because we're we're gonna get to, you know, describe to the citizens. You know, we've got a 250 unit complex that we're just approved going in there, and we don't really know what it looks like. And you know? So it would be helpful to have more information for us. See, I look at that, and I'm seeing a repetitive design. K. Different colors, but, you know, I don't see variation.

It will be for four or six units.

It will be the same, and then it will change to another design as the building breaks. The where you have the commercial on the bottom and then the residences up on the top for the for the That's your commercial.

So that will be the lone wolfpack way.

Yeah. I guess that's we just gotta go back into the code and I mean, what's a repetitive design? Is it four units? Is it 24 units? You know? I'm more specific than that. I mean consider how things are built too. Like, when they build a fourplex,

you're not gonna have this unit is looks like this and this unit. I mean, that's very expensive. No. I understand that. I mean, I think that is a as a city, I think that would be a lot to impose on a developer. If they're willing to rotate design throughout the development, that's different. But next door neighbor, is it like, that's a lot to ask. I get it. I understand. I agree. I just see eight units in the whole shop. You know? Yeah. We're absolutely committed to those. Just so sort of. I think it would be helpful just to give us an idea for That's right. To say, yes. That meets our ordinance.

So going back to the original issue, the question that I always have to the council is, are you concerned enough about these issues that you want this to come back to you for final approval? Or if they meet all the requirements you've talked about tonight, are you good for them to move? Because that's the difference. If you're really uncomfortable and you want to see these changes and or impose other changes, request other changes, and you wanted to come back, then don't approve it. But if after everything we've talked about tonight, if they adopt that and put that in the plans and you'd be okay with it, then I would definitely recommend you give a conditional approval with all the points that we discussed.

We approve it that we missed something.

That's where we gotta just rely on the staff to Like whatever And I apologize. Yeah. Go ahead. Sorry.

I'll I'll second what Marcus said, which is it's city staff's job to ensure that that you aren't missing anything. Right? The ordinance is the ordinance, and it has to be met. Right? So, you know, we're gonna go ahead well, we're gonna go ahead. Our proposal is that the city move forward with conditional approval, conditioned upon, number one, ensuring that stormwater pond calculations meet the ordinance. Number two, that we have CC and Rs that the city staff verifies, you know, meet our meet the requirements under the ordinance. And we have our attorney review those. Yeah. That we have the sidewalk along the very north part connect to the play area that we have the pocket parks that are consistent with this exhibit this proposed open space exhibit that I've shown you so you can reference that in your motion. Right? What else, Marcus?

Will you address the water shares? Just clarify how you're going your what water share Water share calculation.

Mhmm. Right. The way that stormwater calculation. The way that ordinance reads is technically the city should not be approving final until we have those in hand. What we've been doing is we've been allowing them to be conditionally approved, and we just require that those be submitted before building permits are issued. Right. We've been trying to work with developers that way. Right. But the the exact ordinances, technically, we're not supposed to approve these plans until those are in hand. So that So follow some of the ordinance, but not? Well, but it's what we did with the the last one was we put a condition on it. It said the condition is that you have to bring us those water rights or shares. Well, nothing will be fine at order. Tells that will have to be done. So it's still you're still not really approving. You you're giving the go ahead that they don't have to come back to you, but they're not approved until that's done. That's what a conditional approval is.

And then, also, will you label the plat with the designs? Yes.

Yes. Thank you.

Did you guys have other what other items? Just so do you think you're going to try and line up those pocket parks, or what

what are your thoughts on that?

I think we can try to do that. Both of them give our best. Yeah. And if I mean, looking at it, I'm not an engineer. Cody's the engineer. But I absolutely look at that. And if we can do that without losing any more units, we'll absolutely do it.

Boy.

Right.

Yeah. I mean, however you you you break that up because you Sure. You gotta have a a break between the Sixplex, the Apex, whatever, and whether it's the PacoPark or the the smaller little pass throughs, but, you know, keep them centralized, certainly like that. And if they kinda lined up so that you kinda go maybe in one park to the next park, you know, if you could adjust.

So separate. So I don't imagine that wouldn't wouldn't matter, but these two

yeah. Another question. If we could address the fourth phase, the commercial, I know there's this is just a proposal. I could you talk through what the plan is for that commercial space? Because that's that's key for us. I mean, we this this was all commercial at one point in time, you know, and we go to the mixed use. So, you know, we we really want that commercial out there, the sales tax that

Addressing we've we've been speaking to auto sales. We've been speaking to another retail statuses that are interested in these things. It is hard to know exactly what I can commit to until I know until this is approved. But once that happens, there is a a a a code that I have to meet as far as the the space that needs to be met for this particular space for the commercial. And that's what holds me to that, again, is the code. So that will be protected as such. But at the same time, if I get a grocery store that comes in and wants to be in there, it will be allowed to allow that grocery store as long as I'm reaching code. That's what will be that's what will be put into that space.

K. And meet the required square footage. So so, yeah, as long as you meet the the total total square footage. So I would presume probably phase one and then two and then three moving south to north with the residential, but that fourth phase could come in at any time that you find somebody that says, hey. I like the spot. It's

Okay. So, yeah, it's absolutely right. It could happen soon in the winter, especially in the phases. So far as the fourth day fourth phases needs to be done. The last, he's done on his side. So you get sick tomorrow. It's not my fault.

You're good. I've been dealing with it all day. So good.

How's my look out, Austin?

My my concern is I think I will wait to vote yes when the developers are happy, the city's happy, and the commission's happy. And I don't wanna there's reasons and we've talked about a lot of things tonight And there's a lot of question marks out there, conditional. I love I love what you're doing, and I don't have a problem with it, and I can do it. But I wanna make sure the city, which Marcus is who I'm pointing to now, he comes back and says, we've met with these people these people. We liked your plan. And also, I hear, well, the commission is supportive of that. I'll be really supportive of it, but right now, I can't be. I I I love the idea, but I don't I think there's too many unknowns. We're still putting things on the list, and I'm sure we forgot some things. That's why we need to involve all three of these entities before I, as a council member, wanna approve.

So I hear that our council members are concerned, but I think it's I don't wanna deny this. Like, we're sending them back to the drawing, but we're delaying their project. I think they are showing effort that they have tried to appease the commission by adding the parks. They're listening to our concerns. They're asking for a very detailed, They're asking for a very detailed conditional approval. Would it be would the council be in favor of moving forward and maybe a meeting with Marcus? I don't know. That wouldn't require them to come back, but some of our council members could pop in and say, check. Check. Check. It's done. Would that be how do you feel about that? Like We don't need to have a meeting, but every I'm Just have the to address their concerns.

I'm meeting with the city staff in two weeks

to, like, check the progress or what? To say yeah. I mean, you're worried about making sure all of these things happen, which is what our city staff does anyways. I just I don't see delaying the motion and making them come back here as being productive.

Right.

So I'm saying if if the council's concerned with it, can

the concerned council members meet with you to say, yes. This is progressing in the appropriate fashion and meets the ordinance? Yeah. I mean, of course, council can come and meet with me anytime and talk about anything. But I'm just wondering, are you you specifically want

I don't want a requirement

that they have to do as a check-in, or are you just saying the next time that we meet to talk about whatever it is You give us an update. Give you an update or a call to say, hey. Do you wanna come sit in on this meeting?

Yeah. Is that More of an update for the council members that are concerned because I I feel like you're I feel like we're working in the right direction and that you've done some things that have addressed concerns that the city has. I would I would be I would be fine with moving forward with a very detailed conditional approval.

Jake, a question. Maybe, Cody, you got the answer to this. Do you know how many additional square feet you added in with this common open space with your proposal? Because I know when I'm looking through the minutes from the from the planning commission, their issue was insufficient common open space. Right. So, yeah, they had some probably some current concerns like I like I do. Like, how do I walk from place to place? You know, some of that kind of stuff. It's gonna be packed with with units, but we asked you to increase the density too way back when, and you did. So how much additional

do you any just kinda in a So each of those pocket parks came in about 3,900 square feet approximately.

However, some of that was already common open space. You're mostly getting rid of each of those two units. I think each of those units is 720 square feet approximately. And then two parking stalls, and each parking stall is a hundred and eighty hundred eighty square feet. So you're looking at you're gaining about right around 2,000 square feet per parking foot. For each one of those. Maybe a little over 2,000 square feet since So there's another five or 6,000

In addition to what's happening? Correct. Right?

Quick question for you guys. This one in the center by the pool, is that gonna stay a smaller amenity area versus the Because we already have that big chunk of of amenity there with the pool and the clubhouse. Right. I guess my fear was more that that would go away, but it sounds like that's gonna stay as a city of our Yes. K. I think we're even willing to move some because, like, the one pocket park takes up those two little pads. We could move two little pads over, you know, and still keep the same amount little pads with the extra pocket bars. Because some of these two squares kinda sucked up the little hatched areas. Right. So now I take those little hatched areas and I move them over. So you still have those little hashed areas and the pocket parks. Right. Yep. Because you're still gonna have to break up those buildings Yeah. Somehow another, what, 15 feet minimum between Yes. I think. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I appreciate what you've done here. You didn't have to do this. You know, you you came with what you came with last week to the planning commission, and you listen to them. So I appreciate I mean, it's it's not cheap. It's takes time. It takes all three of you sitting there how can we how can we do this? So I appreciate your effort. I think this answers the planning commission. That was our goal, listen. That that was what we wanted to address because there's specific concerns.

But, I mean, we disagree with them about the definition of an open area. We do. But rather than fight over that, we just thought, well, what can we do to to to get to the real concern, which is they wanted bigger amenities more centrally located. Yeah. Yeah. We never got to your definition of what that is, but I don't think I need to worry about that with this now.

Kirk, I I hear what what you're saying, but, again, I would say this answers the planning commission.

So so take them out and But have you verify it, then I'm all for I mean, I I I like it, but I just

we're there's too many If I may, mister Brower, and I I appreciate your concern. I really do. The the thing that has been shared by other council members, I just wanted to echo that, which is the city council is the land use authority for this particular project because it's a mixed use project. Right. Right? So, ultimately, it is your call. And and, specifically, your call is to determine one thing and one thing only, which is, does this project meet the ordinance that's on the books at the time that we apply for it? K? Our argument is, yes. In fact, the one we submitted already is compliant with it. This is our attempt to be accommodating and to collaborate with the city. So so what we're offering, we believe, is more than what the ordinance requires. Ultimately, it's this body's decision whether to grant approval or not, not the planning commission. And we feel like we have tried to address the specific concerns that they have. So I I just wanted to to share that

that piece of information. I appreciate too that you've you've come back and given us more

green space, and I appreciate too that you flipped the pickleball in the Yeah. That makes sense. Mhmm. Yes. I I like that a lot.

That was actually the recommendation of the planning commission. Yeah. They said if you're gonna keep it there, flip it.

Oh, they got space because I would hate to live in Units 23, or 4.

But yeah. But now when I go shopping at the commercial space, I can't just drop the kids off at the playground right next door. You know? They're gonna have to go around the pickleball. This is my this is my red line before I came in tonight. Sure. And I'm gonna spare everybody in here and not ask all those questions because as I drill down and look and I'm thinking about, you know, pedestrian and the landscaping plan, and do we have sidewalk lighting down here in our little you know, we we've got probably a eight or 10 foot strip between a front door and a privacy fence. I mean, come on. You know what I mean? But but but it's your property line. You get you know, what's your options sort of. You know? Right? And I'm just gonna have to trust that when I look at the code and and I was looking at the old one that this was submitted under, I'm gonna have to trust in this guy sitting right here and the other city staff. He certainly knows the code better than I do. And all these things that I read through and I make my little scribble marks on, I've just gotta trust that he and Brett and the fire department and everybody that's part of of all these organizations that look at this and approve it, that they're gonna do their job. That's what that's what we pay them to do. So, I don't want their job. You know? Although you'd think I'd do the way I so I've changed my mind. I I'm I'm okay with I'd I'll make a motion that we move forward and that we approve this with all those conditions, and you can read them off that, you know, and I guess there's time for other further discussion. But

Yeah. So we have them I'll show you then.

From Dave Felson. Marcus will read us the details. Alright. So here's the

conditions. Number one, the stormwater pond calculations be correct according to ordinance. Number two, the city received cop copy of the CC and Rs and have them reviewed, make sure they meet the ordinance. Number two, it says open. What was that? Open space addition of the open space, the additional open space as shown in the exhibit presented to the council tonight. Number four I can't read this one.

Oh, sidewalk along the number side to to connect to the playground here. Okay. The sidewalk and

is that That's the pocket. Yeah. Okay. That one. Yeah. I meant I'd I'd meant the pocket parks. Okay. I'm sorry. And the next one is that the water shares will be dedicated to the city

before building permits are issued. Correct? K. And then the unit mix is labeled on

On the plan. The plans.

That's everything I had. K. Don't you guys have anything else? All of that. And I would even think even, like, the water share stuff. I mean, leave it there, but I would say that it should even need to be in there because, again, that's the ordinance of the code that they can't build without. Right. And and I'll add one more that the remaining engineering red lines are as Yes. Addressed.

Because there's just, like, three little ones.

I'll stick with the I'll stick with the motion. We have a motion from Dave Faust.

I'll second it. And then I and then I think you're supposed to ask if you Any, yeah, any further discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

Aye.

K. Motion passes three Three to one.

K. Thank you for your time. We appreciate your patience. We appreciate you walking us walking through this with us. So thank you. Thank you. It's great. Thank you. See you.

And

Okay. Well, now to move on to consider the development agreement for the Muir development.

Cancel real quick. Are you okay if I if I take off for the Yes. You okay? Yeah. Yeah. See you tomorrow. Thank you, Cheech. See you tomorrow. Thank you, guys. Have a good night. Cheech.

Okay.

Mirror development.

That's Do you want me to give a summary? Yeah. Let's start there.

Muir Village. Is that what we're on? Yes. You know, summarize 12 pages for us here real quick.

Yeah. So as a reminder to city council, the Muir Village development agreement isn't just a development agreement. This is also approving the preliminary plans and plots, which are included as exhibit a of the project. So if the council approves the development agreement, you're also approving the plans, which means the next step is for them to submit all their final drawings. I'm not gonna go through the whole development agreement. It's, you know, big legal description. The one that most people are concerned about is we talked about a section four, describes the total unit count for the project, a 116 townhomes, 12 condominium slash apartments. It specifies the amount of commercial space that we're agreeing to. And, again, all of this basically refers back to the development plans. So whatever the development plans are, that's what we're approving. I did want to

The rates, especially, is the incorrect way that rates. It should say that there's no more than a 116, not one twenty eight, and there would be 12 condominiums and a 104 townhomes. So the total count including the the condos above the commercial and the townhomes total would be one sixteen, not one twenty eight. Okay. So we need to rather so

so the total number is one sixteen, then we subtract 12 town homes or the 12 condos. K. K. I will get that changed. The public amenities, these park space has been carved out, we'll call it, on the development plans. Exhibit b shows the play structures that the developer will be installing as part of the project. Design elements, once upon a time, we got the rendering of the units. Typically, we like to have the design elements attached to the agreement as part of the package. I just wanted to ask, did you have a new rendering or if you wanted to just take the old one that got submitted previously and attach that? No. K. So we can have that be added as an additional exhibit. Let's see. The next one I wanted to point out is the allowed uses. This is just more of a heads up for the city council to read through these and make sure that these are the uses they would like to see there. Again, as we've discussed in the past, we're limited being with the proximity to the middle school and what can go in there. I thought this list was very comprehensive, all all the things that we would like to see there. Retail, I will note in our ordinance, does include any like, sales tax generating businesses. So grocery store, food place, string place, clothing store, that's all included in retail under our definition in the land use table. Water dedication. Question for the developer. It says you're gonna provide five shares back to the city. Are you retaining shares sufficient to water your outdoor acreage?

K. I mean, the challenge is is my actual the actual owner of the parcel and then parcel

across also on the parcel down the street. Right. He's given us five, but once this is approved before we spend final, we would use the engineering calculations to dedicate what is necessary and to purchase additional.

K.

But five is what he's kinda thrown out there based on what we've got with the current competition center.

K. I you know, I'm fine with leaving this in here as it is. That satisfies our requirement. I just wanna make it clear to the developer. You gotta make sure that you're watering the outdoor with the irrigation, or else that fee in lieu is gonna go way up. Yeah. K. Fantastic. Phasing, if they're gonna phase it, we'll just have them submit that with the final, unless you wanted to include it on the preliminary plans.

Board of record west to east. So you would see commercial going as part of phase one. That's the question. Okay.

And then public improvements is pretty standard. The only other thing I wanted to point out in the agreement, there was a question about the remainder parcel, we'll call it, being set aside for future commercial development that has been identified in the agreement in item number 24. So as far as our city attorney is concerned, as far as city staff is concerned, the agreement after the modification to the number of units is good. It's just back to the city council to determine if this is the deal that you want to sign. And by signing, you're approving the preliminary.

Do you have questions or concerns? And and the main reason that we are doing a development agreement, if you would again remind me, is is it just has to do with the zoning because it was it was agricultural and

Correct. Let me download So this plan set and make it larger so everyone can see it and we can remember. So these this project is made up of, well, technically, three parcels, but the one right you're seeing right here is two two parcels. The zoning up against Wolfpack Way was residential transition zone, which allows for limited number of townhomes. And on the back end was the agricultural zone, which allows for the maximum of one unit per acre. And so this is quite a shift from the base zoning. And so the developers came to the city over a year ago now, and we've been working with them to try and get a layout that, number one, achieves their goals of producing a product that their company is comfortable with and can make money from, which obviously is the goal of every developer. And number two, the city wanted to see the beginnings of a a park space that could potentially be continued with future development to create a larger park area right across the street from the middle school. The right, that's really the heart of the development agreement.

The park is the transition from current housing to

multi. Right. And I always bring this up because it makes me laugh. Originally, the proposal was park, and then the proposal turned into a couple of single family lots. And then the proposal turned into I think it for a half a second, it was maybe some more townhomes, and the park was somewhere else. And then it went back to the park. And that's what we've settled on again. So it took us a year, but we realized that it was it was good the way it came in the beginning.

And and this does include some commercial, but I guess you do the development agreement. This is just for my knowledge here. You do the development agreement rather than do a zoning change to, like, a mixed use because once you do that, now you're tied into a specific amount of commercial versus residential. I mean, is that

Right. And so in in this particular case, that's another good point to bring up. Originally, there wasn't any sort of commercial built in here, but the city council and planning commission felt strongly that they wanted some commercial wrapped in. And so all these units that you see kind of bordering Wolfpack way into the roundabout, those have a commercial condo element on the bottom. And so the idea was, basically, the city had some goals to create a park and have commercial space. The developer had some goals to build some townhomes and decided that none of the zoning in Hyde Park really fit the project. And so it necessitates a development agreement Got it. Creating a zoning that meets everyone's goals.

And they combine some wonky parcels Right. So that we're limiting on their to to and make a better development. Yeah.

And part of wrapped into this is a future commercial on the south of the road there next to the school.

Right. Which, admittedly, is a rather large concession because that's a pretty big unknown for the developer to take on. Just say, yeah. We'll include it as commercial in the future. So that was quite a big ask, and I'll be honest. It was pretty impressive that they were willing to sign up to it. K. And then those units along Wolfpackway,

those were at one point live work, and then I think conversation last month or the month before or six months ago were like, well, maybe that's not so cool anymore. So those are change those. Those are not live work then. Somebody could live there and work there, but it probably becomes ownership. The way that live work units are built and regulated Right. They're complicated. And so our building department actually brought that up a about a year ago,

said we don't want any more live work units because they become a administrative nightmare. But if we condo it out, that makes the building a little more complicated. According to them. I don't know the specifics, but it becomes easier to manage over time.

And then I think also the the 25 stall parking over to the and the park space, is that gonna actually become city property at some point?

The parking lot will? Parking lot and park.

I think I'm pretty sure that's in the agreement. The parking lot becomes Is it is it in the agreement somewhere?

Yeah. Okay. Right. Pretty sure, but yeah. Okay. But lots of conversations over the last month. Just trying to remember that. Okay. Stephanie, Kirk, what'd you think?

Yeah. I'm ready. I'm ready. I like this. I I feel like we've gone back and forth, and you have been very easy to work with and appreciate your patience as we've changed our mind and changed our mind.

So officially twelve months of income out there that I hear and collaboratively collaborated with both client mission and with the council and I'll be care everybody's got exactly what they want. I think we've, like, set up our own version, Camilla, but this is but I I do like the idea of this better than the work live. It allows you the option of having 12 individual units, which equals 12,000 square feet, or just combining them having 6,000 which you wouldn't get out of Woodworks, so it's changing over the place going there. And, again, with March, we noticed we turned off current owner of the property that's one that I paid to to block in the South, not to be in commercial.

And I'm still holding over for a dentist on the bottom and a dentist on the top so that wait. No. The school gets and you should go right guys to it. That's all good.

There's no red lines on this. Right? No. The Modify that one that you just mentioned. Modification of unit counts Except for the and adding the exhibit of the the rendering of the town hall. Signs. Yeah.

K. Here's my motion. So I have a motion by Stephanie. And is do we need to include in this approval of the preliminary plat as part of that, or is that just inherent in Yeah. Let let's play it safe and add that into the actual wording of the agenda of the motion. Sorry. Okay.

So added. Don't make me say it.

I could've ordered the experience, man.

And So we have a motion by Stephanie. The motion was to approve the development agreement and the preliminary plan in Platt.

I'll second it. Second by Kirk.

Any further discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?

Motion passes. Where's the confetti?

No. This is just a preliminary. They gotta come back through here again. Right? Then use that. We'll connect with someone. I appreciate that. You know, just and and don't don't get me wrong, but I just I just see how much these guys do. And with some developments, I see Sunrise just, you know, red line, a red line, a red line, a red line. And it's like, come on. I thought this is what developers did for a business. Come on. This is you know, no one's making you do this. You're choosing to do this, so just follow the rules, play by the game, you know, bring the stuff in, and, okay, if you miss something, great. But, anyway,

hopefully, you can Issues.

Good. Issues. Alright. Thank you. We'll now move on to discussion of the Wasatch Development Group development agreement.

So as a precursor, I'll just echo the same thing. This is another project that was has been presented to the city once. It doesn't quite fit the zoning. The developers have met with myself and the mayor a few times, looked at some options, and they're requesting the same thing. They feel like they have a benefit to bring to the city, and they're hoping that we agree and that we'd be willing to have a development agreement with them. So

Developers. Yeah.

Thank you. I I was here a couple of weeks ago, like Marcus was saying, at Jaden Smith with Wasatch Group. So to kinda jump in and and go from where we were to where we are, I've I've added this very preliminary site plan into here that kinda and I can kinda walk through a few of the changes. So if you remember, this is right along Wolfpack Way in 600. That building there on the top right is our mixed use building, has commercial there on the 1st Floor, roughly 1,400 square feet. And then there's three stories of apartments above that. The building there on the right or lower right, four stories, all interior corridor type apartments, all rental. Those two buildings stayed the exact same of the last time we were here. What has changed is now over on the west side of this site. So you'll see three buildings. Those three they're labeled as three story 24 unit, buildings. Those slightly changed, and I can get into the reason why on the next slide as well. But that used to be more of a l shaped building kind of similar to the one on the lower right hand corner. That's changing. And then rather than our garden style buildings that we had in the lower left corner, it's now, for rent townhomes. Those there's three of those four plexes and then those two six plexes down there in the corner. Those also changed. You can kinda see how this breaks out over on the side, the 1,400 square feet of commercial, 101 apartments, 68 garden style units, which are those units up there on the top left. They're labeled all as 24 units. The reason the math is not adding up is four of those units will be used on the 1st Floor as our amenities. Gym, game room, fitness center, they had kind of a a whole slew of amenities. So there's four units that will be taken out of that 1st Floor for, Clubhouse amenities. And then those 24 townhome units in the bottom left giving you a total of a 193, more rent units. If you jump to the next slide oh, that's just we showed that last time. That is kinda that corner building showing the commercial on the 1st Floor. This is kind of the bird's eye view if you're over the roundabout there looking at the project. That's just for viewing pleasure, I guess. This is kinda where we dove in and said, how can we how can we benefit Hyde Park? And so this is out of the general plan, some of the housing goals. I can kinda go through our thought process on how and why we changed our site and why we're doing the things we're doing to try to get this to develop development agreement. First of preserving and strengthening existing neighborhoods while allowing the formation of new neighborhood centers that align with the historic development pattern, density toward the major roadways, avoid full the sacks. What we have heard and what this general plan goal is telling us is Hyde Park is wanting density, specifically on the West Side Of Wolfpack Way where this project is located. So we try to incorporate that going three, four stories with our with our project here and still having that commercial aspect on the corner. We felt like we met that goal. Second one, facilitate a reasonable opportunity for a variety of housing, including moderate income housing to meet the needs of people deserving to live, benefit from, and fully participate in all aspects of the neighborhood and community life. This was one that we'd heard from staff, the mayor, a few people with with the city. And that's really why that site plan changed is to give more of a diversified home for a family. So we have, you know, interior corridor type apartment buildings. We have garden style walk up buildings. We have those town homes all at different price points. It's trying to create a life cycle a little bit life cycle type housing or as much of a ride as we could, put onto a site of this size, is our intent there. The next goal, 4.4, identify potential areas of blight that may affect the community and establish goals and standards for the improvement of these areas or structures. I'm really gonna dive into that one specifically on the next slides on on things that we're wanting to do with this project that we feel like would benefit not only our project, but but Hyde Park City. And then the last one is developing ordinances that will allow opportunities to increase residential densities and into the laws that meet certain infrastructure criteria. You guys created a mixed use zone. We're very close to aligning with it. We're obviously here for a development agreement because there's a few things that are not aligning. But the big one there of increased residential densities, we feel like our project is is fulfilling that and fulfilling the vision that Hyde Park have for this area and having some density specifically in in in in a somewhat of an infill lot, but in in a very crucial area to Hyde Park. Quest stop me at any time if there are questions or anything like that too. This we can go however you want. But Remind me on the

housing above the commercial. Is that going to be sold or owned?

We will we will retain ownership at all before rent. All everything on on the site will be for rent. Okay. K. Jumping into kind of the goal 4.4. So area in red is our site. As we've once again talked to the city, tried to look at ways we can benefit Hyde Park City, this was one that came up that we feel like could be a a really big benefit. So that area in blue there is currently owned by Hyde Park City. That's right off Main Street coming down onto 600 South. There is a retention pond. If you kinda see that roadway that's split in the middle of the blue section, the area on the right is a retention pond. And then the area on the left is kind of a it's now a grass grassed area that has stormwater retention underneath it. And then there's a park strip along that whole area. We went out next slide has some pictures of that area just for reference. This is how it sits as of two weeks ago.

What? No. That can't be the cities. We would never have weeds and stuff like that on city property.

Well, it's in North Logan.

True. No one buys a park. To blame Just like all those apartments, they're gonna be in North Logan that people say, well

So this property actually is within North Logan city boundaries, but it is owned by the city.

Okay. Because I that was news to me that we own it. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Yep.

And That's right. I remember we talked about

that. Go ahead. No. You're good. So our our plan or what we would like to propose here as part of this development agreement is is I'm sure there are people that like the the look maybe right now. We would like to come in and and beautify up that area and help, clean it up, put the park strip in there that would continue up in until along our frontage of our project, landscape, the actual retention pond area, that grass area down to Main Street. Not only for our project is it it's a little bit of a cleaner quarter end our project, but really this is going to be and is with the high school right there. It's a a very active road for Hyde Park, and we like that to not only be benefit us, but all citizens of Hyde Park as they entered into the city. So that's kind of that fulfilling that, other goal of a blighted area that we'd like to improve as well. So what would you propose to do there? Just So landscape it, install it. That would be part of our our project, and then we would we have a on-site maintenance team there. We would maintain maintain it as well, making sure weeds manicure, all that stuff with our with our landscaping that we're gonna have on our own project as well.

Will the re water retention stay the same? You'll maintain it as water retention space. You want you're not addressing

you're not changing anything other than manicuring it? We, yeah, manicuring it and Built wishing pond. They're gonna do they're gonna stock it with fish. Yeah.

Would you be willing to maybe build it up and reshape it, retain the same volume Yeah. Yeah. But modify a little bit. Right now, the very bottom gets swampy and grows read, so we could build that up a little bit and widen it out. That might actually benefit.

And and I don't think we are opposed to this. And and if I can speak into are you I mean, I don't wanna speak into

it. I got seniority, so he doesn't get fired. He does all the work. No. We we did had discussed this earlier on this because we have not had a chance to talk to your staff or your engineering to determine what the needs are for current and future needs of stormwater retention. We have also not gone through the the exercise for our own needs that are gonna be there. And we looked at it saying, as we walk this, you see there's a lot of space there, but it was very there's a lot of space that's left to be improved. Like, it could be a more functional area that looks better and could can retain more water. We could probably joint use some of things so that we we can modify ours that this all comes together. It gives us more incentive to maintain it in the future. Like, he was saying, landscape it, keep it clean. But, yeah, as far as if we shut off the water, redig it out, redesign it, that that we feel like that is well within the means of what we're looking to do to make this project work. So we'd already discussed. I apologize. I'm stepping on his toes a little bit, but I do wanna mention one thing about our project before I sit back down as I sat here tonight, and I've been here a couple other meetings. We mentioned it last time, but there's a couple new faces. I I don't remember if you guys were here, but one of the reasons this is coming is just based on having something that's a little bit different than a lot of the other projects you guys are seeing. And I really like the projects you guys are seeing from some of the other developers and the vision they have. But having the the variations and the varieties in your city Mhmm. Is also a benefit, and we feel like we can bring that. And by doing so and helping the blighted area and helping you with stormwater needs that the city has, we feel that justifies our ability to enter into a potential development agreement with some zoning identifications with that we can give you that four story Just look that you guys had intended when we first purchased this this lot, what, two, three years ago. It kinda has changed over the years. So that that is why he we're here asking, and I will and yeah. So your to your question, we're more than happy to look into that and do those things. So sorry, Kater.

No. I

might sit down as well if you're not in the questions stage so that Well, I'd like to add a clarifying point. So this parcel is already zoned for mixed use. So typically when we're looking at development agreements, Muir Village is a great example. They were zoned for one acre lots. And so to give them the density, let's them have a 100 plus townhomes. We wanted a pretty big ask in return, which is all that public park space setting site commercial area adding in those commercial units. Where this parcel's already zoned mixed use, there's not a ton more benefit that they can really get out of it with mixed use. So I guess the benefit they're looking for is to allow them to develop the parcel more in congruence with the old code. The limp more limited commercial space allow well, the townhomes are allowed either way, but having a focus on different housing types and diversity. And so, you know, putting a huge condition on them like we did with your village wouldn't necessarily be appropriate because they're not asking for a huge benefit in return. I'll just put it that way.

I think the benefit they're bringing is something different than anything else that we've seen other than the Oz, which was last fall. I mean But is it enough? To me, I'm

I appreciate the varied housing options. Do we wanna limit commercial space on that corner? Do you wanna ask for less commercial space on that corner? What Which is a big deal, like, with Wolfpack Way. I don't like, to me, I just feel like I get that you're gonna reach like, improve our retention pond that looks ugly.

That you it's a valid a valid point and a valid concern. And, actually, the 14,000 I don't even mention 1,400, but 14,000 square feet is what it's at right now, which was over the requirement of the old code that was just changed a few months ago. Right. This same layout with actually more density was only 12,000 square feet under the code before they changed it. So right now, the reason it was 14 is it matches the building type that we want on that quorum variant. Could you have more? I I wish I had a crystal ball to tell you if it could or could not happen based on our experience with the the commercial that we have throughout this valley and through Salt Lake, Colorado, and everything. I would be cautious if I was a city to push beyond what is feasible or what the market is asking for. As you see Main Street through North Logan, some of those areas that over the years had turnover changed and everything and a lot of that that do what they used to have zoning and say, we need these big buildings. Now you end up with a k mar with a big parking lot because of the zoning that for thirty years you're now dealing with. So I'm not gonna say that this could not warrant more commercial, but 14,000 square feet is is quite a bit for that corner. So if we're if I'm gonna give you a reference on it, if we were to go down to the South Side Of Logan next to the Marriott, and there there's some retail buildings right in front there. Each one of those buildings is roughly 3,500 to 4,500 square feet. And so this would be, like, taking that whole retail project of the one of either side of the river and putting it all in that corner. I know when you look at this, it looks like I have nothing. But if you were to take that 14,000, that is more than I have on those on those projects that I've done down there. So, yeah, we could we could always look and say maybe we need more or maybe we need more diversity and need more locations and more competition versus making this into a Kmart type situation and and putting grocery stores 60,000 square feet. Because your current one, I believe, when we did the math was almost 50,000 square feet. So we'd be putting in a grocery store on that site, which then we would have no room to park it because it doesn't have enough acreage to even park 40,000 square feet, but alone have the housing for it to meet the requirements. So it's one of those conundrums that we sat we came in with the staff, and there's times and when if we meet the residential side, we can't meet the retail. But if we meet the retail, we can't meet the residential.

And So when so when I look at at this one,

they don't have the benefit of the highway. The 250 like, a lot of the other Yeah. You know, parcels, you know, that we've been dealing with, they get 200 involved. They have to use 250 feet over against the highway for commercial. So it's pretty easy for them to come up with the commercial. Here, they don't have that. And then I start thinking, how many more little mom and pop retail buildings do we need along Wolfpack Way? You know what I mean? Like, every one of these developments is gonna come in and I mean, we just approved, you know,

what, a dozen, 14, 15, 16 of them. You know? And do we need has to be that. I'm just saying. Well, and Like, our desire with mixed use was to bring in commercial. So the community on Let me exactly. Sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off, Tiffany. Yeah. Let me offer this up as well. So we're seeing 14,000 square feet of commercial on this corner. This corner, we've got No. It's awesome. Six or 8,000 that they're putting in. On this corner, Visionary Homes has presented at the workshop last week. They wanna put in another several thousand square feet of commercial space. So we may not have it all concentrated one parcel, but you're gonna have That's fine. It's Tens of thousands of square feet of commercial space surrounding this roundabout at different areas. So, I mean, if that's very important to the city council, I definitely, you know, would defer back to you with your goals for the vision for the city. But I just wanna point out, this isn't we shouldn't be looking at this in a bubble. There's other things happening in the area that will contribute to the sales tax generation.

That's a good point. I just know that that it was when we were going through our whole master plan and when we were talking about zoning. Right? That was that's a concern.

And and that and, councilwoman, I I don't want you to feel that I was trying to correct you or tell you that that could not happen. No. No. I didn't. We feel comfortable with our history of expertise and everything that we set with our retail people that do our leasing and doing everything. And honestly, they were scared to death that we're going over 10,000 based on all the everything they lease in the valley currently. Mhmm. And we talked through what the zoning was and everything, and and we feel like we've figured out a layout that can make 14,000 function very well underneath that building. Because there is there it it makes a big deal. I know that they mentioned live work. I'm gonna take this off topic because tonight's been a meeting and panelists go off topic. Okay? I'm gonna take it myself. Yeah. It was mentioned a few minutes ago in the last project that that your engineers had talked about the difficulty of live work. I've done live work. So when you drive down Wolfpack Way and you see the live work, that was my project. K? And that was a city requirement at the time in North Logan that I had to do the live work. And I can tell you the benefits of it. I can tell you the the horrors of it. Well, from construction, development, owning, financing, we went through it all to figure it out. Now as I look at this, and I mean, I have three stories over a 14,000 square feet, and I have to have separation. I've gotta treat the bottom floors if it's a full commercial. I've gotta have concrete wall, like, floors. I've gotta have their own fire suppression. The cost associated with that first level separation, I could go probably and build a whole 24 plugs Yeah. On another project site and say that I can for that cost. And then now I gotta have my ventilation different. I gotta have a totally different HVAC system for my housing, my separation. So when when we commit to 14,000 feet on the bottom floor that you're seeing all over in big cities, right, we go to Salt Lake, we go to this, they have a little bit higher demand. They're probably getting double or triple the rent. For Logan, every developer you're seeing that's that's taking this risk, you should pat them on the back because it is a huge financial risk both right up front with the cost and the long term to keeping that lease. It does limit who's willing to go in there and who's and what you can put in there, and we understand that. So we did a lot of research on there. We know the difficulty of live work. Mhmm. And whether it's 600 square feet or 16,000 square feet, anytime I have retail or commercial underneath housing, wow, your your building inspectors hate me because now I gotta treat everything commercial on the bottom, gotta treat everything above a residential, everything crossed over with insurance, everything crossed over with financing, everything crossed over with everything, and it is very cumbersome for your your city. Luckily, we have done it. That is one thing that I can say that when as I'm listening to the presentations, we have done this before, and so we do know it. So 14,000 feet, who knows if that's too much or too little. It's just what fits in our building, what we feel like we can we can get leased. So

And and with all of this mean rental residences,

that would that commercial would also be you would own that and lease that. So that Absolutely. Absolutely. And we have our own leasing company that, like I said, that does we're in five states.

See. And to me, I see that as a benefit that they've got a vested interest in getting somebody in there, whereas some of these other developments were like, well, we got a piece of dirt over here next to the highway that we'll put a commercial in there, hopefully, at some point in time. You know what I mean? Honestly, I wish that my property went all the way to the mainstream because I could I could design my development

in the roundabout, and I could parcel off parcels and say that this is, like, gonna be commercial. I'll put a deed restriction, and hopefully somebody else does wanna buy it from me. Right. That's But I have to do this once we send this commitment. We have to go through and I have to manage it and have to perform.

There's another question. Would you be willing to put in some kind of concession to meet timelines to at least get the project started? Because one other complaint that I've heard from the planning commission and city council is the city's got a thousand units in various stages of the approval process. And when we did that count, we didn't include your project or the one kitty corner from you. There's only one that has started development. And so we it'd be really nice if we could get some more actually off the ground. So is that another concession that you may be willing to sign off on within a certain amount of time you would at least start the project? I'm gonna be very, very cautious

with this be with this answer because, once again, I'm going to use history. I made this promise to a city in Wyoming in 2019.

Oh, man.

We broke ground in 2022, and it was out of our control. So any concessions like that is very scary, not only from that aspect, but financing, market studies. Like, it I mean, we can have this done and ready, but if if financing changes and they're not willing to finance this project as it sits for right now, or it takes six months to finance or it takes it there's so many variables when we do a project that that is one concession that I will not put my name behind is a timeline. I do know that once we come in through city process, we've got timelines that, you know, on on our approvals with the planning zoning and our building permits and different things like that that already handcuff us a little bit. Mhmm. But right up front, I I I can't make that concession for our group or our investors. It would I I'd be abandoning my my duty as fiduciary duty right now. I'm just curious. No. It's great question, and I appreciate it because I get pro stunted in all my projects. When are we gonna start? When are we gonna start? We've got land all over the state, and I I've got projects that are in year two and year three with approval that we haven't been able to break it ground yet. And a lot of them have to do with they've got retail involved, and it is part of the retail without a potential tenant. I mean, it really is. And and even if I have a tenant line right now, if they're regional or national, it could take two years to get to the final agreement for them to to even sign it. And then they've got their, you know, tenant improvements and their design elements and everything. So there's just too many variables for me to come in and do anything like that. I apologize.

So I guess there there's not an official vote or anything tonight, but the developers need to know, is this enough that the city would be willing to entertain the development agreement? Because they still have some leg work to do. If they get the nod from the council, they need to meet with myself, the city engineer, figure out kind of the overall scope of the pond, what they could or couldn't do with it, other specifications that we might wanna impose on them. There's a fair amount of legwork they would need to do to get their numbers dialed in before they can even submit their first round of of plans and, you know, do the development agreement. So that's the question tonight. Is this enough that when they you know, is if they go through all this process and then bring a preliminary plan back to the city council with a development agreement, are we just gonna tell them no? This isn't enough, or would you be willing to consider it?

As for me, this is my favorite development. I just don't tell the others, but or maybe do tell them. No. I'll look back. I just yeah. It's not being recorded or anything. I like the diversity. I I just really like it. I like the layout. I like all the parking. Yeah. I like it. So I'm on board.

I I think improving our property that's in our port park would be North Logan area. Where is it? Anyway, it would be an improvement, and and I don't see us using that for anything. So I I like it too.

Yeah. I same. I I'm I'm a big fan of it. I mean, you're bringing something different. Yeah. That's And different and good and varied. And, you know, it's not cookie cutter. You've got different kinds of things going on. And, you know, I'm looking at it already and going like, well, okay. We're gonna talk about, you know, snow storage and stormwater. And just then I'm thinking, well, if they're gonna, you know,

work with the city on this piece of property there, I mean, let's go for it. Because right now, it's not doing us any good sitting down there. Well, the the other fun part is, eventually, we're gonna have to tell North Logan that we're in there messing with their easements too. So it's you're not only gonna work with Hyde Park. You're gonna work with North Logan too. Yeah. So buckle up.

Buckle up.

Jeez. We may never see him again after that. No. I'm I'm I'm I'm good with it. I mean, if we had enough more stuff, you know, I'd say, yeah. Approve the preliminary plan and move forward. I mean, I'm I'm in favor.

Yeah. And I'll just say from a staff point of view, we don't have a firm recommendation on if we should support this or not. It all kinda goes back to the amount of improvements that the developer is willing to do for the stormwater pond. You know, we're obviously not requesting that they shove all the stormwater onto their property, and then we can bury that whole mess and call it a day. We already looked at that, and that'd be impossible. But, you know, we're willing to give a recommendation that the council should do this agreement if we can reach an agreement with the developers that the benefit to the pond is is enough. And I think we could get there, but right now, I don't have a firm recommendation from the staff on if this is there or not.

But it will come back to the council as we

finalize it. Right. But the question that I have is, do you it sounds like we have at least three who are saying they like this enough that the developer can go and start the legwork and submit an application, and we can move them through the process. Is that's kinda what I'm hearing. And when they get here with their preliminary application like we did with Mirror tonight, it's not gonna be, ah, we hate this. No. You'll at least, you know, consider it, work through it like you would with those other ones. Just saying as long as that is a considerable

contribution to the community, not just grooming a park strip and

ketchup on do you know what I'm saying? Because you're asking for a development agreement. Let me understand what you're saying. And and with the redid or digging back that back out, redesigning that just that sectional There'll be expense in it. I mean, we're talking 7 figures right off the bat. K. And just based on what we're doing in other ponds and different things with the landscape, with cost where they're at right now, I'm I'm gonna assume that we're now talking rather large numbers. And and and on top of that is even if it comes in half that, the the fact that our our our long term management team was willing to accept long term maintenance of that Yeah. That's fair. I've I've gotta believe there's some value to the city that for the next ten, twenty years that you guys don't have to worry about them on the lawn or whatever the whatever that is required of us to to do. We're not worried about that right now. So I'm not sure what that's buying us. This is of course, those are the small things as we're looking at this that are need to be included as well. And I'm But it impacts our budget? To his point, we understand when we come back that there's gonna be little things we're gonna have to come to an agreement to get the full approval. We just feel like in the amount of time, effort, and money that our investors have to put into this, we we just wanna feel like we're in the right path, and if we fulfill the intent of everything in good faith that you guys will also reciprocate that good faith, and we can actually come to an agreement at some point.

I think I think we would operate in that fashion. I don't have any doubt that our council did not.

Thank you. K.

Alright. Thank you. I lost my agenda. Okay. Any further discussion or topics we need to discuss? Sorry to closing.

That's everything on the agenda.

K. So I'll make a motion that we end this wonderful city council meeting and go home.

I have a motion to adjourn. I'll second that. And a second. All in favor? Aye. Aye.