Hyde Park City Council Meeting 11.12.2025

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Okay. Almost there. One sec. We're good? Kevin? We want to welcome everybody to our Hypersonic Council meeting for November 12. The opening thought or prayer and pledge will led by council member Osborne. So

we'll turn it to Gerald. Okay. I will offer a word of prayer. Our dear kind heavenly father, as we gather this evening, we give thanks indeed for our many blessings, And we pray, heavenly father, for our city and those that oversee it and pray that good decisions will be made in in the benefit of the citizens of Hyde Park and for the future. And we're thankful for this country we have to live in and to have the freedoms and stuff that we enjoy. And we pray for thy blessings to be upon our meeting this night and that we might have good discussion and make good decisions. This we pray for in the name of thy son, Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. If you'll please rise and follow me in the pledge.

I I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for the whole.

Thank you. Thank you, Garell. The next item is to review and accept the meeting minutes from October 22. Kurt, do you have any comments? No.

Daryl? No. No. James. None for making me. No.

I'd ask about this really long motion that council member Fowles made, but I'm sure that it was accurate. So I don't have any comments.

When you when you have to take a breath a couple times in your motion?

Yeah. It was probably a couple times. Okay. I'm good at my other things.

So I look for a motion to approve the meeting as from October 22. So moved. We've got a motion from Kirk. Is there a second?

I will second.

Second from Garrold. Any discussion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay. Next item is to approve the current agenda. I have no amendments to the agenda. If council doesn't, we'd look to approve the agenda as written.

I'll motion that we approve the agenda as written.

The motion from Tiffany. I'll second it. The second from Stephanie. Any discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay. Motion carries five zero. Can you understand? Yes. The next item is to open it up for present input, questions, or comments to myself or his counsel. Please limit it to three minutes of any item that is not on the agenda. We may not be able to respond because we may not have all the answers at this time, but we will get back to you on it. So we will open it up at this time. Please come forward to the microphone.

You know what I mean? I have a request, and that being that the city public works boys become better stewards of the leads instead of just pulling them out in this turbine gutter and this street to gather them up like the rest of us. I get enough of them as it is. I don't need the cities too, and I do get them when the wind comes from the Northwest. I'm here on behalf of me and my wife because she's usually the one that blows them.

Alright. Thank you, Fane. You could take that back to public works. Okay. Any other comments? Having none, we'll close that portion, and we'll move on to the council business. Marcus, do you have anything to report?

Apologies to the city council. I was late in getting the staff report into the box, but it is in there now. Things are slowing down a little bit, not by much, but my staff report went from three pages to just over one. So things are winding down. A lot is still happening. We're gonna talk about a couple of the most important items a little later tonight, so I'll save the discussion till we get to those. But if you have any questions about any of those items, I am open to them.

That was thought it was good. And if you change the spacing, you can get on one.

Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Council, do do you have anything, Tiffany, I'd like to hear about your report?

So our front porch activity was held on the November 6. We had a pretty good turnout. About 25 people came. We had two presentations, one from USU extension on how to cook with mushrooms and one from Brian Jacobson about how to grow mushrooms at home and how to use them in your kitchen and your compost. And people were really interested, and it was well attended. And they all went home with a growing kit to grow mushrooms and took a survey, got a lot of feedback. It was it was a positive thing. People stayed till after 01:00. Our activity went from ten to noon, but they lingered and visited, and I think it'll be a good thing. When's the next one? February is when our next plan is, and then we'll go from there. We might try and do it monthly if possible if we get enough volunteers.

Okay. Great. Carol, do you have anything? No. Stephanie? Yes. I think successful.

Yes. Miss Spook Alley was great. The youth council met today, and we talked about our hometown Christmas festival. They've got some great plans. It is on December 1 at 07:00. And, Santa the real Santa is gonna be coming, so we're lucky to have him come. And, yeah, encourage everyone and try to get the word out to all our residents Yeah. So we have a big showing.

Excellent. Dave? Yeah. Gerald and I, Anne, met with the city safety committee last week. We'd received quite a list of things that Marcus had provided to us that residents have concerns about, some of the same same old kind of things, speeding. We talked about more flashing speed signs that seemed to work pretty well. We had a pretty good conversation At our last city council meeting, we had some concerns about visibility problems on 450 North And 700 East. We asked chief to go take a look. He did. We discussed that, in fact, yeah, he agrees there's some safety concerns there, and at this point, we've got some recommendations, but we're also put together with the mayor's efforts, I mean, normally we call it the SOP, standard operating procedures, but procedures for the I think that's what I called it. I think you you did. That's right. Think of what what we should anyway, a policy, I guess, policy on membership and how would that really works. And so we want to present that in its full, several pages for the the city council to look at and we'll discuss at our next meeting, and with that, we'll make we'll make some official recommendations on how we address some of the concerns that have come up. So we won't go into detail tonight on that, but at our next meeting, we'll we'll discuss more of that. Okay.

Alright. I know Marcus and I are working on a list of city codes that we want to have approved to, and I'm gonna document it. And there's things that we've spoke about here in the city council, water water things. So as we get this compiled, I wanna send that to the city council for concurrence, And then send it on from your concurrence, send it on as a weather coming from not only myself but from the city council that here is, you know, some high priority codes that need to be updated. The other thing, we were officially approved from, Cache County Council who approves all of the COB grant recommendations. We applied for it and received 3,825,000 for the continuation of Wolf Pathway. And as you know, we've been working on the engineering and property portion of that now. So that's in motion. I hope everybody can understand me because I've been a little under the weather. So please forgive me on that. Let's see. On November 18, we have our meeting. What time, Dania? Five 05:30. 05:30 as a city council, and it's an open meeting, but that is solely to well, these are things Dania should be talking about. Go ahead.

Yeah. November 18 at 05:30, we're gonna have a really quick city council meeting to certify the election results. They will have them to me by the fifteenth. So we'll be able to do that. And every city in the county is do is supposed to be doing that on the same night is why that's a strange strange night. And then do you want me to Yeah. Know city council on November 26 and December 24 as usual. We'll we'll enjoy the holidays and then get to play catch up in January. So

First item is Mayor, did we we're gonna just get a report from chief on it. Oh, sorry, Kent. Chief. That's okay. No problem. I've got a I was happy to wait. I'll also do whatever. So I have a couple things I wanted to just kind of update the council on. It's been a few meetings since I've been able to be here with you, so I appreciate your patience with me on that. Wanted to talk first for a second about the electric motorcycle update. That has been a huge problem for everybody in the valley across the state. With my position on the Utah Chiefs of Police Board of Directors, we brought that up to the legislative working group. And I wanted to update as far as what has come out of it so far. There hasn't been a draft legislation yet that I've seen, but there's two items that they wanna focus on. The first is a training. They're looking at having the division of natural resources provide that training since they already have a training for off highway vehicles. They're talking about amending that and updating that to include electric motorcycles. There's also talk about having a series of questions on the driver's license exam that people would have to answer on that. The second part of it deals with the enforcement on how to have a realistic enforcement with the kids on that. They're talking about having a tiered approach, a warning. The second one was a citation with an impound, and then the third something to do with perhaps affecting a future license that the kids would get when they turn 16. So that is all in the works. It's still they're still trying to figure that out on how that's gonna happen. But, every chief, every executive officer across the state is having the same issues we are here, and that that seems to be the consensus of what they wanna focus on with that. The, one more thing with that, they are looking at a are watching a bill that's being ran in Florida right now that would make it illegal for anybody under 16 to operate an electric motorcycle. So they're looking at that and the repercussions that might come from that. They're not talking about implementing that, but they they are curious because that has come up in the discussions with that. As far as the department update, right now, we're down to one. So we've been able to hire a few. Some of you know one of the guys that we fired, Spencer Daines. We picked up another one from the county. Another one from, Morgan County Sheriff's Office that's coming over. And we have a few applications that we're still going, through. So, like we are almost to that fully staffed point, which is a good feeling on that. The next update is our shop with a cuff event. This one is a big one, and we've been able to have some partnerships developed that we weren't planning on, which is gonna be a really good thing for us. So last week, we had some meetings with Logan Regional Hospital, and they were asking about updates that were, or things that were happening. And we mentioned that, and they asked if they could partner with us and help provide that. And so they offered to provide the breakfast for the officers and the the kids involved on that as well as provide a gift for them, a stocking with some hygiene kit and some games and things like that. I asked if we could maybe use their helipad in the event that Santa wants to be flown in and and delivered there. Anyway, it's an exciting thing because it's always been down at the Sheriff's Office before. They've been really good to help us with that. And this partnership with with IHC is going to be a really good thing for it. So we have limited it to 40 kids. It'll be December 6. And the kids are coming for breakfast at 08:00 in the morning. They'll have the breakfast. We'll go out and we'll see Santa arrive. And then the kids will go procession style down 1400 North now, into Walmart on the backside where they will shop like normal, check out. And then, we have need for several different volunteer positions on this one. So we're trying to find volunteers. One of them was gift wrapping like like what we had you help with last year. We are also trying to get enough volunteers to send a volunteer with each officer and and kid in an effort to help them stay in the budget that they need to stay in. Sometimes the kids will come up with, you know, a $300 and we have a $250 budget. And it's hard to turn the kids down on that. And so the department has been covering that. And some kids come under and so it kinda averages out. But we're hoping if we can have a little more accurate count as they're going that that will help ease that. After the gift wrapping we're going to have the kids go down to the garden center where Santa will be this year instead of upfront. Last year, there was a lot of traffic with people shopping that were trying to get out, and it was just jumbled. And so we're trying to make improvements. We're also gonna have a, check-in and check out, with the parents. We've had meetings already with the family place and the kids have been selected. And so it's turning into be a really good event, but we ask for your help again. If you're able to come, it would be it would be fantastic. What time do you need volunteers? Well, really, we need volunteers to be there closer to the 09:05, nine 09:00 mark if you wanna see the procession arrive Okay. On that. And that's just at the North Logan Walmart.

And the garden center is where we should meet.

Just up front. So the kids will come in up front still, and then they're paired up by that point. And they'll go with the officers to do the shopping. But we'll have the gift wrapping stations already done. If we have volunteers, we could have them go with with an officer and so forth. So it'll be kind of a dynamic. The gift wrapping stations will be like last year? To yep. Like last year. Walmart providing all the tape, scissors, and paper, and tables.

And they'll be up at the front?

Yes. Okay. Yep. After they're processed through, then they go Then they go down to the garden center. They'll have a chance to take a picture with Santa, and the parents are are being asked to pick up their children in the garden center instead of up front. Yeah. So if the procession gets there at 09:00,

I don't suppose that we'll start wrapping presents right away.

Probably not. My guess, you'll probably start seeing kids 09:20, 09:30 maybe Okay. That are coming up to the front with that on that.

Okay. I've got my news council that is planning on doing that.

Fantastic. I brought flyers too that we can I can give you at the end of it Okay? The information on it. And then the last thing with calls for service, it's been a busy well, busy week, but a busy month, really. We've got some pretty high priority. The stabbing that you read about in the paper, that one took the entire department to to handle that along with SBI and the Cache County Attorney's Office. It was a domestic violence situation that turned ugly on that, but we were able to get there. I I wanna talk for a second about the response time on that. So we this has come up before about priority response time and how quick our officers are are getting there. They say a prior priority one which is a life event on there should be under a three minute response. Our officers on this event from the time they were called to the time that they were on scene helping was a minute and forty two seconds. Our officers were out again which I was glad to see. That's something that we've encouraged them to do to be out and about because of stuff like this. And they happen to be right in the area and were there. They changed what could have gone worse to catching him kind of in the act, and he had to change his tune a little bit to what was happening. And he tried to pretend to be the good guy in that, but that's not what we found. So kudos to the for the guys for being out. I I really appreciated that on that. This last week for priority one calls, we had 15 accidents that our officers handled, 21 medicals, one rape, one sex offense, and one automobile theft, and one forgery and one DUI on that. So these were all high priority, long, events that they investigated and and and put to work, for a total of a 116 calls total. So, like I said, it was a busy week, but we're we're trying to do good stuff.

So I I met with the chief after some of these calls and the one he mentioned, all hands on deck, and it went on for extended hours. And there's a lot of work to be done now behind the scenes. So it was it it took North Park completely, but we appreciate that. And it was unfortunate event that happened, and glad that the police responded as quickly as they did. Could've things could be worse.

Mhmm. Could've been a lot worse. Thank you, mayor.

The next item is a public hearing and consider resolution twenty twenty five dash 14, a resolution amending the Hyde Park City fee schedule to modify the solid waste removal fees, and that's from waste management. There is a a federal number. We spoke about this, I believe, in our last city council member, and this is what's coming up of it. And if you look at your file, they have updated those.

Mayor, we can cover this if you would like to Yeah. If you would Don, you can pull that up. Cover that.

I'm still trying to pull that file up again. Yes. The first part of this document is just what it currently is. And then I've just taken it, and the red part is what it will be. It is just what waste management is charging us. Plus for each garbage can, not the second garbage can, but the initial garbage can, there is a dollar 50 administrative fee to pay for the utility clerk part of the utility clerk. That was already included in the other fee, but we felt like it needed to become more transparent. And so that's just been removed. I mean, it's still included in that fee. It just shows an asterisk showing that that dollar 50 is added to each of those. But this is exactly what waste management is charging us. We're just passing it on to the resident.

With that information, let's open up the public hearing for this for the fee structure schedule. We'll open it up this time. Come forward, please, and state your name and concern. Having none, we'll close the public hearing portion and move on to council discussion and potential approval. Council.

So I I we have had some discussion just so people know that. And so if we don't make this change, then it would have to come out of another place in our budget, which I don't think we have another place taken from. So

So we're saying that waste management is gonna charge the new rates whether or not it gets approved and what either we pass it on to the end user, the residents, or does city pay for it? We have to do it's gonna happen. Is that what I'm understanding?

Yeah. We so we've been renegotiating the contract. It's a new monitor contract, and the the fee is governed. That that portion that is increased is governed by the Fed. So it originally was supposed to happen in October. We told them, yeah, we have to have public hearings and notices and things like that. So it'll it will happen.

I think I send a I guess I'm just surprised that the federal government dictates what waste

management fees are. I've and I didn't understand that. The overall fee. What's the So the federal government puts out something called the CPI or the consumer price index, and that's the number they use. It's a federally recognized source to track pricing and inflation. Hyde Park. And so in the contract that was signed by the cash waste consortium, which Hyde Park is a part of, it allowed for waste management to do an increase every year based on the numbers in the CPI. And not really surprised to anyone that has gone up consistently the past few years. Therefore, waste management has also increased their pricing a little bit every few years. And you're absolutely right. The city could decide to not increase this fee, but then it comes out of our budget somewhere else. And we don't have another spot in the budget where we have planned for those funds to come out of, and so the city has decided to increase the fee.

So we will be doing this again every year then? It happens every year.

And I've told them every year to not do it October 1. Give us time because we have to have the public hearing. So

So it wouldn't make any difference if we were with a different if we were in a consortium or well, I guess it would be a different contract. We could be a contract with somebody else who would not tie an annual rate increase to the CPI. All

all all the major waste collectors are tied to the same rate.

Kind of their mode of business, how they how they structure their contracts.

Right. I was I sat in on some of the committee meetings where they reviewed a lot of the contracts from different providers when the waste consortium was looking for somebody to take over after Logan that dumped us. No pun intended, I guess. But every single contract that they saw was the same ish. If it wasn't based on the CPI, there was a number another number or federal index or some price point that each contract said, based on this, we want a guaranteed ability to increase every year. So this, was waste management the best or the worst contract? I don't remember, but it's the one that the consortium thought was the best option at the time. And since we're part of the consortium, we just kinda have to do whatever they have signed us up for. And that's that's not the day that it's a bad thing. The consortium is made up of representation from all the communities who are a part of it. And so we we do have a say we did have a say when they signed the contract. So it's not like we're just saying, well, whatever you wanna sign us up for. We No. All There was a lot of input when this contract was signed. All the municipal police tied into the

cash waste consortium review this, and they're all implementing the same the same index change. K. How do we notify our patrons or, you know, our public?

So It'll go out in the newsletter and on the utility billing. Just, like, anytime we have a fee increase of a a utility one, it goes out in the newsletter and then on the utility bill. And we know the volume of public hearings, which not many people, unless

they specifically have a dog in a fight, they're not gonna go there and read it. You know?

I just appreciate, Donna, your effort for transparency and including that administrative fee. I just think that's good practice on behalf of our city, and I appreciate you looking out for us that way.

I didn't know this out, but, yes, I agree. Counseling, more discussion.

I didn't know they did a price difference between the 60 gallon and the 90.

Not much, though. Not much. Not much. Did really have all the same standard barrels?

I thought that was a little charging the same for both.

Any more questions, comments, counsel? If not, I look for a motion.

I'll make a motion that we accept resolution 2025DashDash16, the fee schedule update for solid waste removal. And I'll second it. Got a motion from Stephanie, a second from Tiffany

to accept resolution 2025Dash14. Just seeing the High Park City fee schedule. Any more discussion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay? Motion carries five zero. The next item is to consider a code enforcement issue. Marcus, you wanna give us a little update on this?

Yeah. So I believe the individual is here tonight to speak more to the issue if the council wants to hear from them. So the city reached out to mister Chris Carr, who lives at 60 North 300 East. City code enforcement. The city code and well, the code enforcement officer who works for North Park Police and, therefore, represents the city. The letter that was sent wasn't a notice of violation. It was just a letter saying we think there may be something on your property that may be in violation of the city code. As far as I understand, the code enforcement officer had a conversation with mister Carr about the issue, and they had discussed options on how to fix it. Mister Carr visited the city office and talked to several employees about the vehicle, but the city hasn't issued any violation notices. There are no fines being issued at this point. And so the city council really is the appeal body for any code enforcement issues. And so at this time, there the city hasn't taken any official action. The The code enforcement officer just sent a heads up to the resident saying that they think that could be a problem. So city staff, it's our opinion that there's nothing for the city council to vote on tonight because there's nothing necessarily that's being appealed, and so you can't act as the appeal body. But if you want to speak with the resident about the issue more, that's definitely your prerogative. I have that, Chris, do you wanna speak?

Sure. Come on up.

Well, first, I wanna thank all of you for what you guys do. The streets and everything and pipes and and subdivisions and everything. I mean, there's an awful lot going on. You guys have to be involved in all that. So I really appreciate what you guys do. It's gotta gotta be a lot of work. It's gotta be. Anyway, we're here to talk about my bus. It was running up until about five years ago. I used to take it to my family reunion each year. That's about all I drove it every year for about the last fifteen, but I still drove it and went to that. Now about five years ago, when I backed it up to go to the family reunion, I lost reverse first gear and sixth. So all I did was drive it back up into the spot of the city. Last year, because the transmission was in trouble, I last year, I pulled the transmission and was already planning to fix everything. And I took it to a shop in Brigham City, and they they screwed me, actually. The transmission still does not work. In fact, it's locked between two gears. But I've already started a search for another one a few weeks ago. And there's some there's some answers out there. Now if I cannot find another one, I'd rather put in a different one. But if I can't, I can always pull that one out and have it rebuilt so that I'm still mobile, I mean. Otherwise, the the bus was running. About twenty years ago, I don't know exactly how long ago it was, but we we basically had the same or similar problem. I had my bus parked up there, and John at Talasan, the policeman, he came and spoke to me about it for the city, I'm pretty sure, that I needed to put a building over top of my bus. So working with Bert, the building inspector, I did come up and buy a buy a building and did put it up, but they didn't like the building. So the city had me take it back down. K. After that, there was no more correspondence of any kind for the last twenty years. I was already planning to fix up the bus before this even came up, so we're kinda headed in the same direction, really. The bus looks like an eyesore right now because I haven't done anything for the last few years. I I was pretty frustrated with the fact that the transmission didn't work, and so I kinda just dropped things. But I did start up on it again this year. So as soon as I can get a transmission, I'll put it in and move it, but I wanna turn it around. I intend to fix the windows, the bodywork around the back that's rusted out and whatever. I intend to replace all of that as well. So and keep it operating. Now the only real problem is registration. All these years, I've had my bus insured. I it's still insured right now. But registration was a real problem when I first came. I came from Canada, so we ran into a couple of log jams. We're trying to get it registered. But the biggest thing at the time was it was gonna cost me $250 just for registration, and I had to have an inspection every year, which was another $250. And then twenty five years ago, that was quite a lot of money. And

I'm sure it's gone down since then.

Yeah. I'm sure I'm sure it's doubled. I didn't actually check, but I'm sure it's doubled. But the reason that is the case is because it was originally a commercial vehicle. It's it's not been used as a commercial vehicle ever since I came here. And the insurance company was even concerned about that, so we have that all worked out. I've not any problem with that. But the registration, and not only did it take was difficult, it just cost me an awful lot of money. I had a family at the time, and and it's every year. It's not just once in a while. So I did not register the bus. I drove once a year up to my family reunion in Milan, and I was stopped once. And I paid a $40 fine for no registration. I really don't wanna register it right now. I'm happy to get it operating and everything and look decent instead of like it looks. But the registration will probably cost me a thousand dollars a year, and it's that's a difficult thing to do for a vehicle like this. And whereas I don't really drive it. What I'm really asking for is if you guys could make an exception on registration. I guess it's called a variance. But if you guys could just allow me to keep it there without registering it, I promise in return that I will make it look decent. It will be kept operating and all of that. So

So they're they're real as Mark said, there's nothing for us. I think the the code enforcement officer, mister I can never I butcher his last name. Thing. Bull spider. Balspiler. That's the one. It was just a letter of notice. There's no citation. I know. There's nothing there. So if if he took it to that portion of of some sort of the code city code violation, those others on the registration, that's that's a state thing. That's nothing. We can't do anything on that. But we're if if it goes to the next step of giving you a notice, then then the city can look at what we can do. But at this time, there's there's nothing for us to rule along other than we have a copy of the letter that Right. Doesn't

And now we have the background on it. And now we have background. So They're also suggested that exactly what I'm doing right now. He thought this Yeah. This was So like that. That's good. And I'm really trying to cooperate.

You know? I really wanna make everybody happy, actually. So So let's just have it move forward just as you said. Just keep working at it. Keep working at it, and let's get that going forward.

So Okay. And I'm to keep him informed of Okay. Mike tonight as well. So I will do that. Alright. Thanks very much, everybody. Thank you, Chris.

The next item is to consider ordinance twenty twenty five dash two three r g, an ordinance amending the zoning map for property located at 261 East Center from R 2 to R 4. This would be if you I I doubt some people know, but it's just the property over the Canal, otherwise known as Camille's Place. Mhmm.

So, mayor, just as a background for the city council, this was heard by the planning commission last week. They had a public hearing on it. As far as I understand, the public hearing was uneventful. There wasn't much comment. I do believe we have the applicant on via Zoom if there are specific questions for them. As far as the applicant in the back of the room.

The

Oh. Oh. The other applicant is on Zoom. As far as city staff is concerned, this project meets with the general plan. As you can see in the rezone ordinance in your packet, it meets with the city's plan for the area, and there's no immediate issues with granting the rezone. And so there is a sample motion if you feel so inclined within the ordinance itself. I believe there is anyway.

So this is before you, counsel. It's public hearing was held at planning commission. And so this comes to you for this reason.

Do you have questions, comments? Camille is here. So the this here will create two additional building lots. So right.

As far as we know, there's still a little bit of work to be done before they are legitimate building lots. I believe they talked about wanting to do a bit of a subdivision process after the rezone and switch up these boundary lines. A parcel to the north, you'd have a tough time fitting a house on there with the r four zone, standards. And so I believe the applicant's intent is to modify their parcel lines and, divide those up so that it's a better building lot.

So this may or may not be the way things eventually end up on the

We're just we're just voting on whether to to change it to March '4.

Yeah. The biggest thing is I I would say we wanna make sure, I think Camille's aware of it, that we have identified

where all of the utilities are whenever they're putting in the boundary lines Mhmm. When they go to the next step. So Yep. And if they decide to submit for, you know, a subdivision or a site plan or something, that will all be identified at that point. Yep.

So, counsel, it's to you what motion to approve, disapprove.

I'll I'll make a motion that we approve the rezone twenty twenty five twenty three

r z. And I'd second that motion. Got motion from Garrett and a second from Tiffany to approve ordinance number twenty twenty five dash two three r z. Any more discussion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay? There you go, Camille. I guess we could actually come up and do your victory lap or whatever. Alright. Next item is considered landscape being option for Greenhurst Subdivision. You have the PowerPoint, and I I'd ask them to come up and let's have that presentation.

I I don't know if you guys are like me. I like to just have them in my hand too. So if you want them, it's not gonna be

possible that I would like to have it. Okay.

Thank you.

So, yeah, what we're proposing is I mean, you guys have seen probably seen this project for a while now, so you're pretty familiar with it. Just some some background on us. So we're we're just the residential piece. It's three different pieces. It's the residential, mixed use, and commercial. And me and my partner, Kurt, we are just the, residential, so the townhouse piece of ours. That's our our portion of it. So kind of what we're proposing well, what we're proposing right now is that we we change the landscaping plan more to, like, a zero scape plan, more water efficient plan so that we can use, city water for the the open spaces until pressurized irrigation is to our site. We will stub the site for irrigation water. And then once that gets to us, then they can just connect right in and switch it over to irrigation water on that. And, Marcus, you wanna go to the next. And I ripped on your guys' packet. I ripped these out because I feel like it was kinda redundant, so I I apologize there. But, yeah, I kinda see, the closest pressurized line we that we have found talking with Hyde Park Irrigation and Cache High Line is about 21, 93 feet away, give or take a little bit, on that. So that's where we feel that it is not in the service serviceable district as far as the infrastructure goes for that. That's why we're asking just to be to have the variance for the culinary water until pressurized irrigation gets there. And then and yeah. So there's kind of a an image where I have the research that I have done has shown me where the closest pasteurized irrigation line to us is on that. And if you guys have any questions at any time, please stop me and ask any questions you may have. So and then if you wanna keep going, unless you guys have any questions on that. When is it gonna be done? Or, I mean, did it you say

you you're kinda that's an open ended question saying, well, we wanna do this, but we'll hook up when it comes. I mean, when is it in account? Talking with with Sunrise and a little bit with Marcus,

they're they're thinking maybe five to ten years, and correct me if I'm wrong, Marcus,

is kind of the plan. Well, it could be this is a private irrigation line. So from what we understand in discussing with the Hyde Park Canal Company, their plan is to do a system wide pressurization project, but they're not going to start probably for another five ish years.

Yeah.

But, yeah, that's that's based on the last numbers that we heard from them. This isn't a city driven project.

And the the line go back one slide. The one that comes down from the Middle Canal, I would think the the person that farmed that property, right or wrong, he ran that into the Hyde Park City the Hyde Park Canal District water from the Middle Canal. So he was taking water from a different canal that wasn't allowed. But I wonder if it's been there long enough, and I think Marcus brought this up, whether or not you can

search prescriptive use. Yep. I did. And the the the pipeline is not actually on our property. It is up up I think it's 300 up that North And South Road, a little bit to the east of our property. I went out and rode around with John Mickle the other day, and he kinda showed me where all his gates were, all the pipes, and where the nearest pressurized connections were for it. Yeah. Because I was I love what Marcus said that in our meeting, but, yeah, unfortunately, it is not close enough to our pipe. He is running those roller lines Yeah. To connect into where he can just kind of irrigate our parcel as what he's been doing the past fifteen or twenty years. So, yeah, that's a I know they have some private lines, but he's yeah, he doesn't want us connecting in to those on the some of the private lines that are I that aren't on the the GIS or anything like that. So that's why we're proposing kind of this zero scape landscaping with good shrubs, good ground coverage, good trees that look good year round, very, water conservative, you know, water we wanna be good stewards of Hyde Park water and and make sure we don't use a lot of, you know, gallons in the the time frame of April 15 to October 15. So that's why we kinda propose these, and I've put some pictures up here. And if you can look at those, then you can keep going through. And then, yeah, just good ground cover, so it'll look really good and use and will be about 95% less on our water usage than what the landscaping plan is currently on that. Right now, we're about 729,000 gallons from October or April 15 to October 15. And with what my water or my landscape engineer said with the landscaping currently, it were about 14 and a half million gallons from April 15 to

October. I take it that's in that's for the duration April through October, not per month. Yep. Yep. For that whole duration. Yeah.

Yep. So we're like I said, we're about 95% efficient compared to what the current plan is on our water usage. And we'll still, you know, turn over all the water shares. We'll still we have we'll still buy all the water shares we need to make it work for the culinary, everything like that. We've already turned over 20 water shares to Hyde Park City, and then we'll do the we'll do the rest as needed.

So you guys will still get that that revenue there. So what would you be doing for the open space for the residents where there was previously grass for play areas and things like that? Yes. So we'll be very

tactical about where we're putting grass. We're still gonna use grass. If you look at the very back of the packet, there's, like, a planting list. So we'll still have grass in there. We'll just be very tactical, like, on the by the clubhouses areas, the the some of the dog like, the dog park. We don't want rocks for a dog park or anything like that. That wouldn't that'd be weird. But yeah. So very tactical on, like, the kids' playground, the dog park, the clubhouse and pool area, and then the rest of the other outside spaces of there would be more of that zero scape.

And the and the current plan, it's been approved landscape plan, would include all that water to be culinary water

or or not. I mean, that that's what I'm trying to Go ahead, Marcus. Yeah. So the hiccup here is in the mixed use zone, we require that any outer watering needs to be done with secondary water. There isn't pressurized irrigation available at the site, but, historically, the land has been watered with irrigation water. And so the challenge went to the developers to figure out how to make that happen. As they stated at the beginning of the presentation, that's been it's proven to be very difficult for them. And so what they're looking for is some sort of approval from the city council because in also in our ordinance, in the water dedication ordinance, it talks about how there's an option to set up secondary water, dry pipe, or irrigation system for future connection. And so that's what they're looking for, approval from the city council is allowing them to set up a system with accessibility or when accessibility is oh, wow. I can't talk tonight. Okay. It's been a long day. Set up a secondary water system, when it's available, but for now, use culinary water to water their outdoor landscaping. That's what they're essentially asking for.

Thanks. Because this would have been approved with the requirement

that all of that be watered with secondary water. That's that's what it was approved. And the way that this ordinance is written is it goes back to this map right here. If you're within an irrigation boundary, you're required to use that water. As they just mentioned, they are within the boundary of the Hyde Park Canal, but secondary pressurized irrigation is not readily available, and getting it to their site would be quite a cost to the developer. The city staff's response was, it's still a requirement, and so they asked if they could come and sort of appeal that decision to the city council. So that's what they're doing. Do do we have others that could come forward and want same thing? Absolutely. Pretty much everybody up and down this corridor is probably gonna be lined up right behind them. A situation we don't want. Yeah. There's kind of an issue with the canal company. I don't wanna speak ill of anyone because it's a liability and a legal problem more than anything else. The canal company is very concerned with the water in the canal. Once it leaves the canal, it's less of a priority for them. They leave it to whoever takes the water from the canal to manage their own offshoots. And so that's what's happened kind of all up and down this area is the city put in our ordinance that we want everyone to water with secondary water because we were under the impression that it's available as most of the properties have been flood irrigated for decades. But when these developers have been reaching out to the canal company to get things figured out, they were quickly realized that the irrigation is not as readily available as everybody thought it was. And so Bringhurst Village is the first to tread this ground, but you can bet that everyone else along the corridor is facing similar issues that the water is not very easily accessible

unless you wanna flood your gate. They don't know how many shares they have out against the canal. That's a separate issue.

So our code says you gotta have the water, and we approved this with the understanding that there would that there was water available for Ringhurst to be able to do what they were gonna secondary water that they'd be able to get. So we require it. We thought it was there. We approved it under with that understanding, and now we've learned that that is not the case. The canal company is

Yeah. I mean, yeah, the developer could build a 2,000 foot pipeline, but that's quite cost. That's very expensive. And so that's what they're requesting tonight. Well, eventually, that'll have to be built anyway somehow, some way to get the water there. Right. And I'm not necessarily advocating for or against that. I'm just saying that's very cost prohibitive to them, and so they're here asking if So by the way, they're federation. With their cistern

and pump, and we did that all the time when I grew up. But

So when would the and so we're saying it's another five years before the the line or longer.

Right. It's a private company. I know right now, they're getting they're going after federal doll dollars to actually get it piped and pressurized.

We said that exact same terms, same words at the start of my current term.

Right. I'm part of I'm on all the meetings Yeah. For that, and they it's very slow rolling mostly because the project involves, like, 10 different canal companies, three or four different cities at this point, a handful of trails, an electric project at 1st Dam. I mean, it's become this insane sized project, and so they're asking for, like, 3 or $400,000,000 of grant money at this point. And so it's ballooned into quite the the mess. So, yeah, it would not surprise me in the least if we go another if we get to the end of this next mayoral term for you, and still they haven't made it any farther down the line.

Would water watering with culinary water increase? It's going to increase the amount of water the project will need overall?

I mean, it will increase the amount of city water they need. Right. In theory, it should be the same, but we're more concerned with the city water that goes there because that's what we have to account for with the state. Right. That's what our water rights have to cover when we do our reporting every year. And so that's why we made our ordinances in such a way that if secondary is available, we want people to use it. It helps us. It helps the canal companies because they do similar reporting. And the more water that they can show they are using, then the more shares they can keep alive and well within their company to keep providing water to people. If if the council

sold their originally, it was over 14,000,000 gallons of canal water to irrigate this through the summer, and now it's being proposed just shy of 800,000 with the changes in the landscape of what they're wanting to do. I know the Jinx project, I think they have some places where they have artificial turf

Mhmm. That they're putting in on theirs. They're gonna have some small spots where they do artificial turf. Yeah.

And we

that's something we could look into as well. You know, we're not set stone on that. We just wanna see if we can move forward this, and we can, you know, come back to you and keep your viad, whatever we need to do. But we're not set in stone on exactly we can put turf in or whatnot. You know, we're open to that. Is is there

any ditches that come off the canal that is close to this property? So off of 4100,

there's a ditch, but it is not pressurized or anything. And and from what I'm hearing is maybe four to five months out of the year if that, it might have some water in it here and there. But from what everyone's been telling me that it's not a reliable source of water. So and one thing that my my plant my arc my landscape engineer said, ground your groundwater is at six feet, and a lot of these roots with these bigger trees and stuff, they're gonna get down there pretty quick. So then it'll even he thinks that after, you know, four or five years, it'll probably even require less, to be honest, is what he was saying. I'm surprised you're saying that that says six feet. Oh, it's the groundwater's quite high down there. Yeah. It it no. We we did we learned that the hard way. We did a a high or a historic water level, and they're not wrong. It is exactly six feet to the t. Mhmm. So because we wanted to see if that was accurate, and it was. So

I'm absolutely in favor of what you're doing no matter what kind of water you use. You know? So, John, I appreciate the effort that's being made. Thank you. I guess my concern is that our code says something and we want something and we wanna use secondary. What impact does this have on the city? So if we go culinary and then doesn't apply to you, you know, you don't care about, but my concern is, you know, future developments and any commercial that we'd wanna go in there and all the water requirements for however much space we'd we'd want watered.

So we have water. We don't have a development agreement. We have a land agreement.

We did a right of way agreement because this is where future Wolfpack Way is gonna go through. And so with the the previous owners, our friends from Kairos real estate, we did a right of way dedication agreement, but it's not something that affects the land use entitlement. And so this would be just something coming back to the land use authority for mixed use developments, which is the city council.

That's why they're coming back here. I I would say that council, if you went with this, I definitely wouldn't leave it open ended. We'd you'd wanna come back and circle back in four or five years and find out where we're at because I know JUBs were working on the pipe in the canal. It's kind of a legacy project, but I'm not in favor of any open ended. And at future date, let's everything sunsets. Let's if you do something

Then they could be in a tough spot because if the canal company doesn't move forward with the project

You're you're at where you're at. Their water option.

I don't know if that's a wise move for us once people start purchasing and moving in, and I don't know if that's a good option either.

Because it really is dependent on a third party that's out of anybody's control, and that could very well be put off for twenty years. If you know? I don't know if this is relevant, but I do know that there's neighborhoods that to the east of us that are even closer to the pressurized pipeline that are a 100% culinary water. Yeah. Mhmm. And the neighborhoods. Yeah. Mhmm.

Right. Yes.

When you put in how I can't even remember the number of units that are gonna be in there. You know, that many, you know, the high density. Yeah. How many 200. 205. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I I I have the same struggle you have because our ordinance says one thing, and what's the best resolution? We're trying to limit culinary water for landscaping.

But our if you can't get secondary water, we don't have anything that says if you can't get it, then what? Right. Well and I wanna be clear. They can get it. But paying all the costs to run that is gonna make this so that their costs go way up. Their units become way unaffordable. The whole price the whole project goes way up in price. And that's not something I think the city wants either is to have a bunch of townhomes get built, and then they can't sell because the price is too high. But at least we got our secondary waterline. So I you know, as city staff, we struggle because it's our job to make sure the rules are followed. Right? That's what the city council hires us to do. But there is some consideration here about how the city is handling the secondary water in this area where we are making we have rules that are doable, but maybe not feasible. And so we struggle a little bit with how we as city staff are looking from direction from the city council as well with how you want to handle this one.

They're bringing water rights. They're gonna pay for all this culinary water. Mhmm. They're bringing We have the culinary water to begin with that, you know, maybe we do for them, but are we gonna have it for the next one, the next one, the next one? And at some point Right. Then we say, sorry. You know, we gotta change the code. No more building in town because we don't have water for it or, you know, that's Right. And, again, this is this is not on you guys. We're just stand. Just bring it up conversation to have. No. It's it's a good question. I know right now, the planning commission is

struggling with an ordinance that would require that all developers bring water rights no more having the fee in lieu of option. And they struggle with it because they feel like they there was a public hearing. A lot of development community showed up to say that it's not very fair for them. But with the 1,000 units on the way along Wolfpack Way plus the about 200 single family homes on the way in the rest of town. We're burning through our water rights and an alarming rate. We have enough to cover what's coming, but we will very shortly run out if we keep approving this many units at this rate. And so there's a consideration for the city council to think about, or we have other projects that potentially are coming to the city in our industrial and commercial zones who will also need water, is our lawns and open spaces where we want our city water to be spent, or do we want it spent on homes and businesses and things like that? So that's just for you to consider. I don't have an option or a recommendation for you ready for tonight, but that's just what we as city staff are also grappling with. We're trying to figure out how how to make this work.

Wanna piggyback on Marcus's point. If we you say we were to just find secondary, run it, it would only take about four shares from the all the allotted that we're gonna buy from the fee in lieu of on there. So it's not taking a lot out of your guys' bank. Whether we do culinary or secondary, it's not really changing much there.

And and how many water shares were dedicated over? So they already dedicated 20 shares at Lehigh Park Canal. We did have verification from the canal company that they were in good shares. They were worth the amount of water that they said they were. We also have an agreement with the folks doing the Brinker's Village development that if they get access to secondary water, we'll happily give them back at no additional cost any shares that they will need to run the secondary system. Mhmm. But it sounds like that may be hard to do.

It's we look every morning. It's part of my morning routine.

So like I said, the city's as city staff, we don't necessarily have a recommendation for the city council with this decision other than what we're doing is sticking with what the ordinance says, but we understand that that's creating quite a burden for this development. So I'm sorry I don't have a better input for you.

Okay.

And we started the the off-site work today, actually, so that's exciting. Mhmm. So it's we're moving. We're making progress. So thank you, guys. You your guys' city staff is awesome. Couldn't it just can get muddy in two days, and you can't get in there. Yep. Just in time, yeah, just in time for the snow. So

I guess my worry is, like, just that we get enough water shares dedicated to us to cover whatever type of use they would require because in the future, we don't we can't predict what's gonna happen with that pipeline. I I tend to think that the 20 that they gave would be a good starting point that we try to go to the state to convert.

Mhmm.

Water shares in Canel can be converted to water rights. That's a field we've never plowed. We know some that have. You know? Oh, but we're getting ready to. Believe you me. Yeah. You know, all all water turns out to be green. It's not blue. No. That's that's right. And it's getting,

yeah, scarce and expensive. Yes.

Council, if it I don't know if you need more time to make a decision, but we could potentially have this on the agenda for the next meeting if you need more time to consider. Point.

Is this something holding you up? 100%. No. I'm asking.

Yeah. It's it's it's holding us up. Yeah. We have one other item that we're just working through with Marcus on the stormwater drain system. Other than that, this is our only other issue that's, yeah, not letting us dig the site.

So they're starting the we split the project up into two pieces. They have some off-site improvements that have to do with bringing utilities to the site. That is underway. The actual development of the subdivision with the the dwelling units in it, that is on pause until this gets figured out because it's part of the package. The city council approved the project with some conditions that there were some a few outstanding items that need to be cleaned up. One was stormwater, which is just about buttoned up. That one's pretty much done. To you tomorrow. And then the other one was the secondary irrigation plan. So

the irrigation plan within if if the council likes this plan, then it's the final determination is of how is it gonna get watered. So if they approve the plan, but we're gonna look at the water, whether it's shares or culinary, does that move you forward? Because you're not putting in doing the external work down Wolfpack Way at this time. You're putting in

just the utilities. Right? Yeah. So we're starting on 4,100 right now, and we're gonna go east on 4100 up to future Wolfpack Way, which we'll be done with that in about three weeks, and then we'll be ready to go on the whole site. We can go all the way up Bringhurst and lay all that, get that done to the north of Bringhurst, and then do everything in in the middle.

Either way, you would be wise to put in sleeves

for roads or, you know, potential future connection, a sleeve at least that you can put a pipe through. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we're dry piping. We're we're stubbing in for secondary. So when that pressurized does, they can literally just switch it over and connect into our pipe, and the whole site will have secondary water. And and if you're doing that, running the pump at the canal,

by the time it gets there, how many PSI do you have?

Yeah. I honestly I wouldn't I wouldn't know. Yeah. I don't know. Were to pump from the canal to to

bring her, so that would be

Yeah. It wouldn't have a lot of pre PSI left probably because it would be a long ways to go.

So just to clarify what we're we're not asking to or we they're not asking to be relieved of the requirement. They're asking for the city to apply the option that is in the water dedication ordinance to have a dry piping system set up. And then in the future, they will use that when secondary is available. They're not saying they're never going to use secondary. Just saying they want to have that be what we apply to them instead of what's in the mixed use code, which says, no. You have to use secondary water, period.

How do we make sure in the future that they do switch to the secondary? Is there something that we can do That I don't know. But credit charge.

I do know that culinary water costs a lot more than secondary water, so I would think that it's it's gonna be within their best interest when it becomes available to make the switch because our water rates are only getting more and more

You can you can put a sunset on the date that they have to come back in and say,

in five years, where are we having pressurized water? And we don't have it open ended because that doesn't motivate anyone. Yeah. The ordinance doesn't go into that much detail. It just says when it's available. That's all of the ordinance Yeah. Says.

And who is ever going to say, hey. I wanna put a water line down through here, and then these guys can connect to it.

So That's fine. I have talked with Hyde Park Irrigation a little bit, and they are start they're pretty motivated. I've talked with Mark Hurd a lot, and he says that they're pretty motivated to get these projects done and and pressurize a lot of their area. So it seems like that Hyde Park Irrigation I don't know about Cache High Line. They seem pretty motivated too, but Hyde Park Irrigation, they seem pretty pretty motivated to get it done in the next five or so years. Yeah. And they would

choose to do that at the cost. Whatever it's gonna cost them to get they're gonna have to turn around and pass that cost, the same cost that you don't wanna spend now and pass on to They're gonna pass it on. Residents. They're gonna pass it on to whoever's owning those properties, and so it's somehow it's gonna get accounted for by somebody. Right. I know that that is part of this big

multi million multi hundreds of millions of dollars project is the Hyde Park Canal will be piped all the way through the city along all the major roads to let connections be done. But, again, nobody knows when that's going to happen. There could I mean, if the city if this is big enough issue for the city, we may want to look for ways to partner with developers or with homeowners associations or something to install major connections or do something in conjunction with our annual roadwork that we do in certain neighborhoods. But then the city is kind of signing on for a little bit of long term maintenance and babysitting of these things, which we don't really have the resources to do. So there's a lot of options, but there's just not a lot of easy ways for this to happen right now.

Can I go back to something you said before? Our mixed use ordinance says that you have to use secondary water or the external Any outdoor landscaping. But before that, you said that somewhere else in our ordinance, it says that you can do either or. Mhmm. Is that correct?

Right. When it when when it becomes our roof available. Right? Yep. And this is the argument that we're we kinda balance back and forth with our different legal to see what people's thoughts were. So from the city's perspective, the zoning ordinance is the one that's closest to them, and so that's the most important for us. But in our water dedication ordinance 12 dot one fifty, I think it's in section zero one zero, it does specifically say that one of the options we offer is to set up a dry piping system that's all ready to go. And then when the secondary is available, you can plug into that and use it. But there's no sunset on it. There's no time requirement. It just says the developer has to put in a dry system. And when the secondary is available, they will plug into it.

And are we concerned about dry systems going bad if they sit for fifteen, twenty years and they're never used?

Yeah. Well, it's not like there's still water going through it. So what we mean by dry, like, stubbing it in on there, and it'll still have, like, the water running through it. So it's getting So you're using it for your culinary water. It's kinda you. That's not going to be dry. Yeah. And then what what But, eventually dry. They call it dry. But, eventually, it will hook up to the Yes, ma'am. Yeah. It's kind of a misnomer. That's what it's called in our code. But, yeah, they would just use the city water. And then when the secondary is available, they would shut off this dump and and connect it to this other pipe and off they go. That makes sense. I was just thinking

a long time ago, another subdivision did that, and the pipes collapsed because nothing ever ran through it.

But That that could happen. That's the he's talking about the subdivision to his east. There's a lot of engineering issues with that.

So I don't you know, we've been talking about this for a while. I think if the council's not ready to make a decision tonight, it's probably best to move this on. I know they're this is holding up the project, but if it's gonna make the difference between deciding tonight or not, I mean, we can say for two more hours and deliberate. There are two things that they're decided on, one being the change

of the landscape. Well, this is our proposal to save water. Yeah. Going from culinary to going from secondary to culinary. That'd be in the second. And that was our advice. We said, you know, you might wanna propose

a more conservative landscaping plan because that might help the city council feel like it's better to allow you to switch to culinary water because the old plan did have a lot of grass. It was very water heavy plan as you saw.

When do we meet again? Not till this end of the month. Not Not till December at the beginning of the seventh week. So it's another month.

That doesn't fit your No. I have problems that. No. I mean, no. You'd rather know before.

I think that Ask question, and I'm ready to move on. So our water ordinance says either or if it's available. And then our mixed use says it has to be secondary. How about our commercial how about our codes for any other zones for R 2, R 4 commercial? Is it required to use secondary?

Not a lot of our other zoning has specific rules for secondary water, but we were very specific with the mixed use knowing where it was going and knowing that there'd probably be a lot of public amenities or quasi public amenities, and we wanted it to be to not be a limiting factor. And so we wanted to force people to use secondary water because then it wouldn't matter if they had a huge field of grass because they're using canal water to water it.

And I lied because I just thought of another question. So I one more. I think it might be the last. When do we think that this landscaping will go in? What's the timeline of development? Because I know we've got several phases, and does all this landscaping for the first part of the phase need to be completed before they're allowed to do the next phase and how many months, years?

So we're gonna be done with all the horizontal work probably by March year. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And then It's done with this year. Still working on if we're gonna do the vertical. And And a couple of the people that are interested in doing the vertical, they would start digging basements shortly after that. And because way it works is because this the the foundations are so close to the asphalt, we'll dig the basements, get them all in, and then we'll go in and asphalt it. So asphalt after the the the foundations are in. So that way we're not cutting up a bunch of roads for no no reason, if you want. Units would be done within You we we can have units on the market probably July.

Kind of, August. And then we require the landscaping to go in.

That's

a Where I'm going with this is it might be another year or two before we any of this is ever

go goes in the ground. Right. But your problem is it's part of the total package required to get your permits. Yeah. And so that's where they're hung up is we, as city staff, can't sign off on the landscaping plan because it's dependent on the secondary water, but they can't get secondary water. And so we can't sign off on the landscaping plan. So they're saying, let us use the options in 12 Dot 150.01zero, and we're saying that's a city council decision because we don't

we think that this is how it should be. Well and if the ordinance is is implying where it's feasible and this is not feasible, then but but maybe we can make an exception, but put a sunset clause in this where we circle back and then four years from now. And and I wish there was some way that we could ensure that it will be switched to irrigation, but I don't think there is.

Yeah. And that's something we could talk about putting in, you know, the development agreement and everything. Because they have the right away agreement with Kai Kairos, the group that before that we kinda took over. And then me and Marcus and everyone, we're working on a separate development agreement with us. So that could be something that we could put in that development agreement because we wanna we wanna create a beautiful community for the city. You know? We want people to love where they live and and, you know, to look really nice year round.

So you know how we when people don't do a sidewalk that are required to, but they have to put money into the sidewalk fund or we used to do that. Well, mhmm. We used to do that. We used to I mean, is that something like, if we were to say, okay. If you put $10,000 in a

an account for And the escrow tied up for that?

What? Anyway, just because the reality is this, is let's say that we approve this tonight. They build all these units. We have all these people down there, and then we even if we go back to them in five years and say, okay. Where are you at? I mean, we're not gonna shut them down. I mean, they got people living there. So I I'm just saying if we have some funds somewhere set aside for hooking up into this one, things happen. Mhmm.

I I don't know. It goes back to the principle we talked about with the Corazon at the previous meeting. If the city does that, then we're making a promise to whoever puts into that escrow that the city is eventually gonna help fill in those gaps. So if that's a project you wanna take on and we wanna start budgeting for, great. But that's gotta come from the city council where we as city staff aren't gonna put that into the plan unless that's some something that you want to do specifically.

So I I I do like the description Dave was given on the by the time, you know, we we could be a couple years down the road before external irrigation is needed outside. And if you have a sunset or a requirement to come back in as part of a contractual agreement, there there's that possibility to come back in. And and maybe they're done building their portion, but they still can be held contractually liable for something.

So what would you like that to say? After five years, do do we force them to build the 2,000 foot pipeline? Or what I'm just trying to figure out what what the'll be able to build them is. Mhmm.

That also is awkward because that's cost they would load into their units have if they had to do it now. If they have to do it after the fact, you're just it's coming out of your pocket. You know? So I don't

Like I'm I'm just saying if we give them a sunset, what happens after the sunset? That's all I wanna know. Because in the end, if I'm writing an agreement, me and the city attorney gotta sit down and write this agreement. Goes back to that feasibility,

though, doesn't it?

Right. So what happens when it's been five years and it's still not feasible? Do we just keep Give me a second. Down the road another five years? And then in and then in twenty years when It may or may not most of us aren't here anymore and and everybody's forgotten that it exists and it never happens, I

I would like to see that they dedicate enough water that it covers their entire project. Yeah. I mean, they have to do that anyway. Right. Indoor, outdoor. So we know we have enough water. Mhmm. And you put in the dry pipe system so that if in the event it comes to your property, you could connect. And that shows good intention. I feel like I feel like if we wanna check-in on them in five years, great, but I don't I don't know how you would pull. Move them to say anything more than that. He needs to know.

I'm not I'm not trying to be contrary. I'm just saying, what do you want me to put in any agreement?

Yeah.

I feel like if they snow teeth. So Yeah. So Well, there's not really much teeth in the ordinance as is right now. But there's zero escaping, which is a benefit. Yes. They're bringing us enough water, which is a benefit. They're not asking to pay the fee in lieu of. They're bringing us the actual water. Correct? So You're right. The shares. The other shares we do need, we will be paying the fee in lieu of. Because I don't like I don't like shares do you more? It's about 72 shares. 72. That's per month.

That what you're saying? Or do you include that's it's, like It looks like 72, and that was for the indoor. If we're doing the outdoor with culinary, there's gonna be an additional, I don't know, maybe one or two. Oh, yes. We might like some. We haven't done the math on that yet, but it might be plenty. Well, it's it's we look at the number of acre feet.

So Yeah. But that's a whole different what do we need to do beyond I'm ready to approve the landscaping options. I mean, this is a no brainer for me. Like, yeah. So I think it do that everywhere, but what more do we need to do now in order to

allow this to go forward? It's hard because they don't meet the ordinance. So I feel like we're

granting a variance. Right? Well, we're not calling it a variance because variance is something else. But maybe it's something along the lines of the city council's acknowledging that we're gonna follow the rules as outlined in the water dedication ordinance instead of the zoning ordinance, something like that. Because then we're still committing them to following an ordinance. We're just saying it's gonna be the other one. I mean, I don't like that either, but Yeah. That lets them look forward. And then we're gonna spend some time after this meeting figuring out the

because what happens when everyone else wants to come and do the same thing in the mixed use zone, we're gonna be right back and having the same conversations with why I wanna have

they bring the water. I don't like the family. Yeah. Because it's a Every every mix That's a different discussion. They all have to bring the water or pay the fee anyway. Yeah. Right. The concern that we have is making sure that we can get those secondary water connections. It helps us. It helps the canal company. It helps their future residents. But And and They're they're gonna bring the water regardless. It's just

But but the fee in lieu of makes a developer's problem the city's problem. Exactly. And We have to go up in the water. Like that. I don't like that either.

But that's And you never we have to call every morning to see if there's any shares available. That's right. That's

So Dave asked a good question. To move forward, if we're gonna acknowledge the feasibility of or the viability of being able to both of those, of being able to have secondary water and having the dry pipes put in, what does the council what's the recommendation that we could have with teeth? Okay. It's it's it's tooothy as our code is now.

So my proposal earlier was, like, that money could go towards doing the connection. Maybe we just put some money in escrow, and so when it happens, then you we release the money to the property owners.

Goes back to them? Mhmm. Well, the Cannell Company, their intent is to have all of the users pay a fee for connection Mhmm. Or pressurize your engagement. And that's gonna help run those tributary lines.

Do you know what those fees look like?

No. They move slower than government. So where are we on?

Is it to accept and move forward, Tanya? Just to say I'll throw another little wrench in it. If we Thank you. Do something like a escrow, they're only good for seven years, and then we have to return the funds to the developer anyway. So if this doesn't happen within that amount of time, we're just returning the money to them. So I don't know if that Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Feel like they're trying they're they're trying to meet our ordinance, right, as best they can. Even if water is a FEMA of water, they're bringing the water as it is required right now. The xeriscape is favorable to the city. I don't I don't like having a Yeah. Hasn't made our ordinance, but I feel like they're trying

what they can do. They are gonna pay for it. I mean, looking at 30,000 gallons per week, this development, this HOA is still gonna be in our top 20% of water users. I mean, their bill's gonna be a few $100 a month for using culinary water just on our landscaping. So the city's definitely gonna get a pound of flesh out of this. It's just the principle of the thing. Is this where the city wants to spend the water rights that we have? That's the bigger question that we as city staff have.

If this We're talking two two rights. Correct? Or how many acre feet?

If I remember right, you guys had maybe four additional

acre feet. Yeah. Because it was, like, 2.3 or something at the acres, and then they do you guys do one one point eight seven, and correct me if I'm wrong anyway, acre shares per acre foot of outdoor irrigation.

But you can think of it like one house, one single family house is half an acre foot. So that's eight houses that we won't be able to build because we're using it to water landscaping.

Which there's a lot of people in town that would just not have those eight houses being built.

Right. There's also a lot of people who have kids looking for a place to live who maybe would appreciate those eight additional units. Yeah. Is is There's lots of ways to look at the problem. They they're yeah. Yeah. I'm just saying.

If we approve this going forward, is there a way that we can go and inspect to make sure that they put in those dry

pipes. Oh, yeah. I mean, like you said, they're not really gonna be dry. They'll they'll still use the same pipe system for their culinary

irrigation. They'll use the same water systems. Oh, they're right. They'll just

And, yeah. Comes their cap rates. We have public works employees checking in on all the developments as they get built.

Yeah. We wanna do everything right, and we'll build a good product for you guys for sure.

It sounds to me like if we were ever to approve another mixed use, there's no reason to approve a commercial to mixed use change. There's no reason to approve any other development, mixed use development North Of Center Street out there where there's no pressurized lines. I guess So either we approve this in accordance with our water use code and not our mixed use code, or we're saying we're never gonna approve another mixed use development until there's a pressurized line out there because we're requiring someone to do the impossible. They they cannot well, we're not. They could put in the pipe. They could pay the tens, hundreds of thousands of dollars to put in their own pressurized secondary line. So this is feasible, but that certainly doesn't fit now our moderate income housing because that gets passed on to every purchaser of a townhouse, so forth and so on. So that's counter to what we want to have happen.

This will just help us think of better questions in the future for future developments that come in.

So I'm just gonna make a motion here, and then I guess people can say yay or nay or we'll have more discussion. I move that we can we approve the landscaping options for the Bring Her Subdivision and the associated use of culinary water in accordance with our water use code.

12 dot one fifty dot zero one zero? Yes. That's the one. You got it. Show off.

K. We got a motion from Dave. I would second that. And a second from Tiffany. Any more discussion, counsel? Although What we what we do Go ahead. What do we do when we have the next person come in and want the same exception in in, say, four years?

We approve our we approve our ordinance. And and If we decide if we are gonna let them Yeah. If the council

votes to approve this motion, you've started a clock, and so we have to either update our ordinances to reflect that we would be okay with everybody doing this, or we come up with another solution. Because you can bet I know three or four others who will be calling me tomorrow morning saying what There's the council agenda.

When I mentioned at the start of the council meeting of a list of codes, this was on that list.

But we do we have to and I'd have to look at our zoning map right now, how many properties have been, rezoned commercial because most of them out along in that area were commercial at one point. I know some have been approved for mixed use. I mean, we could just deny any of those rezones from commercial to mixed use until there's water out there for the same reason I I would I'll say on public record that I'm not sure we did the right thing approving Bringhurst out there in the middle of no man's land when we didn't have any utilities going through, and it's causing now these these issues for you and everybody else. And so I would based on that, I would almost say, sorry. I'm gonna vote no for rezoning from commercial to mixed use until we get it fixed. So that's

But we have a motion before us right now.

And I'm not gonna say everything that Dave said on the on Dave. Second it. But the motion that And I'm just kinda responding to Kirk's question there saying that won't be four years. It may be four days. Somebody's gonna be back in here. Dierkscape. Yes. And I started off that I that we approve the updated landscaping options for Bringhurst Subdivision and and use it as a standard for future.

Okay. Any more discussion, counsel? So you're doing two you're doing the landscape first or the oh, and the water both? I'm

doing both. I I don't think we can do the I mean, we can approve this It's a package. But but unless we allow the other, then this doesn't make any difference. So I included them both in the same motion.

Any more discussion? All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed with nay? Nay. Motion carries three two, and you've got the documented eyes and nays on that, don't you? K.

Alright.

So, hopefully, that says we're concerned about this. Yeah. We need to Knowing you can move forward, and I think that's great. But Yeah. We're

all kinda a little bit nervous about it. So Well, thank you guys for that. We appreciate it. And like I said, we'll work with you guys as best as we can for sure on it all. But thank you. Alright. Thank you.

The next item is to consider a plat amendment for the corporation subdivision, and this is more along the lines of housekeeping, I guess, on the lot up there.

Correct. So this issue was identified by our city planner. The this is a case of a couple of neighbors swapping a little bit of property or purchasing a little property from each other to try to make a enough room for a new building in their backyard. It's just an accessory building, just a little garage or a shop. When When the building permit got submitted, it was flagged because they're modifying the subdivision. And so this is really just a housekeeping item. The subdivision needs to be amended to include this additional land that's going to be in the subdivision. And it just not adding a building lot to this. Right. You're just adding in this whole triangle of property right here. Mister Reed Elder sold it to his neighbors, the branch lease, and so they just need to we're just amending the subdivision to include that little piece of land so they can have enough room to build their garage slash the easement there somewhere too. Right? No. There's a well, there may be a public utility easement, but that was being redone by the plat the nearest city utility easement. There's a waterline that runs kind of way over here, but that is not in the way of this building at all.

Okay.

So it's just the sliver of that parcel then? It's just that little baby triangle down there adding it into the subdivision. And, of course, we as city staff are 100% supportive of this. It helps clean up. We have little problems like this all over town that we're identifying where people just gave neighbors land, and it's created some messy property lines and some problems. And so we're trying to as we get them now, we're trying to get them cleaned up so we don't have messes in the future.

I move that we accept this.

I'll second that motion.

Got a motion from Curt, second from Tiffany to accept the plat amendment for the corporation subdivision. And that amendment not only is the corporate, but it also amends, at the same time, Reed's parcel. Well, he he already sold the land. Well, he sold it, but is it deed recorded that way?

Yeah. I think so. So Reid's property is not in a subdivision.

Right. But when were the legal description of Reed's property, does it still include this? I don't think so. Okay. K. I got a motion and a second. Any more discussion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed, will take. K. Next item is to discuss the improvements along High Park City Center Street. Mark, if you wanna recap what's been going on?

Yeah. So at our last meeting, we had a lot of people who were very concerned about their driveways and about the city's well and pipeline project that's running up along Center Street, and they had lots of very colorful and fun descriptions of what they thought about it. As an update for the city council, the project is reaching its final stages, and we decided to do something about those driveways. What we decided to do is we looked up APWA standards and city code and found that the driveway approaches should not be any greater than 20%. And so what we did is we went and revisited the contract, found some places where there were some extra quantities of road base, subbase, asphalt, things like that that weren't used, and we gather up enough money from those extra quantities that we found enough money to fix 11 of the driveways that were 15% slope or greater. And so, really, it was, first of all, to address the code issue, and then there were a couple more that, just felt like that were a little unsteady. And so we found enough money in the contract to fix those to update those driveways

without changing the cost of the contract. When you said we have the money to fix 11, there isn't any more that are beyond the code that that have a greater slope

than the code allows. Correct? Correct. So the rest of them that aren't going to be fixed or worked on do meet the requirements of APWA and the Hyde Park City standards, so we're not gonna touch them. And they'll be a little inconvenient. They'll be you know, you don't wanna be hitting those going fifteen, twenty miles an hour. It'll probably hurt your car, but they'll definitely be compliant with standards.

K.

And have we let

the citizens know? I I said that I said that I would get back to Blaine. I kinda went out of commission for a little bit. Well and,

we didn't let them know because the contractor got right on it. And as far as we understand, they've already torn out all the ones that we are Oh. Gonna be fixing, and they're That's true. Warming them up to Okay. To re pour them. And so we thought, I guess, message has been received, but we're happy to send out additional messages to, any of the other neighbors. Now there was a question brought up at the meeting about why are we in this situation. Why did this happen? How did this happen? Well, I'll give you the long answer. When the city came in with our safe routes to school funding to put put in the sidewalk, there was some discussion with the neighborhood about where that sidewalk was going to go. After lots of conversation with the neighbors, we decided that the sidewalk should go closer to where the road is now, And that is really what has led to all these problems. When you look at the standard right of way cross section, that that one that was brought to the meeting last time, that only works if we use the full right of way and put the sidewalk and everything where it's supposed to go. And so by the city choosing to put the sidewalk closer to the right of way and not having enough park strip to make a nice transition, that is what led to having it be very problematic

change.

So it wasn't necessarily the contractor. It wasn't necessarily the engineers. It was past decisions that the city made that led us to this point.

And if you recall, the the sidewalk could have been much more into

the city right away. It goes in there. So, like, how much? Like, three feet or four feet more, Anne? Oh, eight Yeah. I can Eight want? 20. In fact, you know what? It it's a significant amount. All you have to do is look right out here and about, you know, three fourths of or 90% of the sidewalks in the residential core. And that's why we have asphalt stopping here and the sidewalk's 20 feet over there because that's the width of what that cross section would look like as the sidewalks would have gone, you know, halfway between the road and their front doors because that's kinda where the bridle wheel goes. Are you pulling up the GIS, Mike? Yeah. I just don't wanna get everybody seasick with all all the movements. But that's just great. Because I've wondered the same. It's like, how come the road's here and then it's like we've got all this off street parking and then we've got sidewalks, you know, in people's front yards just because that 99 foot wide cross section, that that's where the sidewalk would go. So we knew we knew that in front of Camille, we spoke about the

breeze zone on her property. We knew that that was going to have to be taken out because of elevations.

Right. But the now being ex with the bridge being extended. Yeah. But

go ahead. Go to the next block e. Well, first, to illustrate

Oh. This kind of right in front of the city building is what it is supposed to look like according to the cross section. You're supposed to have the sidewalk approximately one foot off the property line, big old park strip, and then get to your asphalt. K. And so when you follow the sidewalk up, you can see right here at the corner of 200 East and Center Street, we did a jog way out into the right of way. You try and preserve people's front yards, but, I mean, it was also in the public right of way. So we tried to accommodate and get around and not take out people's landscaping and and trees and everything. And so you can see there's a lot less land there to make a nice transition.

That's interesting. You can see it quite well there that in a lot of places when people are building their homes and they have to pour their concrete drive, that it goes to the property line. So as you walk through town and I've wondered the same thing. Why is it asphalt for x number of feet, and then all of a sudden you get this concrete driveway? Well, that's because that's where the right of way in the property their property line is, and you can see it in some of those very clearly.

I don't have a great exhibit of the fix. I'll try to explain what it is. So what they do is they take the sidewalk and cut it out in front of the driveway, and then they take it at a kind of a 45 degree angle. Almost like what's in front of 2nd East and

Sandler Street at Maureen's house.

Mhmm. Yeah. It will But it's not that exaggerated. Yep. It kinda goes like this, and then it will come out and then it comes back. And then in the part that is where the sidewalk was, there's an extended approach that's poured, and that's

how the Yeah. It You could show the one on 700 East

that was done. I see. Oh, I don't know if the imagery showed that. I was Oh, man. Maybe that's not current. But I'll zoom in and see if we can see it. We ended up doing this with a house on our 700 East project where we had a similar issue

happen. Let's see if It may not be too enough. No. It's it's not showing me the right. It's not current enough. Yeah. Doesn't have That's not current. Yeah. It doesn't have the sidewalks on there.

But it just takes a sidewalk and draws over so that it negatively now if it jogs the width of the sidewalk, that gives you another four feet to get that more gradual slope.

Oh my god. Like this. So that's the heart of the issue. This is a problem that the city created in trying to accommodate and be nice to neighbors, and now we get to reap the benefits of that.

No good deeds. Right? I don't know if it's accommodate, but it's it's versus running the sidewalk where.

So doing this.

Not only would it add costs to the sidewalk, what are we gonna do with partnership? It would double the cost of the asphalt that we need to put down. Mhmm. But there's a lot of things that are wrong with Center Street, and we don't have the funds to fix everything. We're taking bad situation and trying to make the best decision with what we have. And so truly fixing this problem

would be making it just like the right of way cross section. So tearing out the sidewalk, putting it where it should be one foot off the property line, taking out all of this landscaping that people have put in sprinkler lines, and then redoing the entire road. At that point, we have a couple of poles that need to get moved, which is part of our agreement with Rocky Mountain Power. It could be done. That's not impossible. But that's just more That's a good example on the corner of 4 Seas. That's more more impact than the city was trying to have with this project. Let me put it that way.

I would've taken that.

That little roundabout thing. Yeah. It's taken the whole thing.

So, yeah, it's it's never a fun realization when you're pointing the finger at somebody and it ends up pointing back at yourself. But, yes, this was something that the city has to deal with because of decisions we made in the past.

Well, I still think it was the best decision out of a bad out of

all the bad decisions we can make. Yes. We did eliminate anything that was noncompliant with codes and federal standards. So that was a huge win for us that we are able to do that without changing the cost or scope of our project with our contractor.

So the update is eleven eleven that were greater than 15% are being redone. There'll be a little jog in the sidewalk into the the more into the city of right away, but the slope of the approach will be less.

It will be less than 15%. Yep. And I just say, having walked that up on 700 East, The sidewalk does jog into it, but when if you were just to look at it, it doesn't appear to jog into it because it's the driveway and there's still concrete the whole way. It's just that part of the flat sidewalk is now sloped a little bit for for them to have that approach. So at first, I'm thinking this is gonna look really wonky with the sidewalk goes on the way, but it doesn't because it's blends into the driveway and approach. Yeah. It's just all cement asphalt. So yeah.

So that is the update, and that's what's going forward, Blaine? That's no. Yeah.

So the other little announcement to go with that is we had our construction meeting with the contractor today, and we're scheduling a final walk through for the project next Wednesday. K. So in theory, everything on that road should be done. The road should be opened back up, and they should be out of there by then. All

the asphalt in. I mean,

we're about done with asphalt. And Right. Well, that's that was our thing that we told them. We said, how much time do you need for the sidewalks? And they gave us their estimation. And then one of their employees said, let's schedule the final walk through for next week. And we looked around and said, are you sure? And they said, yep. And we said, okay.

Then that's what you can do. Seems right. Great.

Does does that include our well building?

There are a couple of items. So this will be for substantial completion, which means about 95% of the project will be done. There are a few items that will not be done yet. There are some long lead items when we bid the project out in February if we were about a year out for a lot of major electrical equipment. So So there are some things that will not be done. We're aware of that, and we're working with the contractor to get those done as soon as we can. Side of the well building, what she's specifically asking about? Yep. The building itself will be pretty much done. There's a couple of major electrical components that we'll need to install as soon as we get our hands on them. And then and then the connection into the tank itself will have to wait until the spring. We are watching our spring levels, our water levels, and the consumption across the city, and we reached a point where the amount of water leaving the tank, we're gonna have to turn on our wells pretty soon to compensate. And the only way that it works to is to shut down the tank completely because all of our wells pump into that tank and then redistribute into the city. And And so if we're getting to the point where we're close to needing to turn on those wells, we can't risk taking that tank offline because if there was to be if we took it offline right now, everyone would still have their water just like they would, and that would be just fine. If we had some kind of fire or other emergency, we would have to turn all the houses off and move all the water there. And so as a precaution, we've told them just plan on doing the connection in the spring when our spring flows are really high, and we're not gonna have that same problem. Easier to reject that water flow in the spring than the fall.

So okay. Well, thanks. I'm glad going through it with Sunrise a couple few weeks ago as we did. We come up to a decent resolution and thought originally it was gonna be seven, but there's 11. So there we go. Alright.

Well, can I make a motion?

Pardon? No. Any any other things from the council other than me asking for a motion on number nine? I've got a one comment.

What's that? I've got a comment here. You mentioned earlier some changes to the code. And I know I as I go through the code, I have handfuls of questions of where things I don't think make sense or just says you may or may not do this, and I kinda wonder what's the sense of having a code that says you may or may not do it. And I take those notes, and I know that since we've had Mikael on board as our new planner, and she's gone through that code. And I see all kinds of I she's got it printed out, and there's marks all over stuff. I just ask the city council when we get whatever we're gonna get here in the near future from from the staff that we take a good close look at that because we spent a lot of time tonight. We and we've got some issues where one part of the code says this and the other part says that, and we experienced it two weeks ago with one of our minor subdivisions. And so that's on us to get that right and certainly on the on the planning commission to make some recommendations, but the staff's gonna has done a lot of hard work, and and I just wanna make sure that we do our due diligence when we see that to to look at it and examine it. We're not gonna be meeting in two weeks or in a month, so we gotta all have at least four to six hours that we ought to dedicate to that in the in the near future. I I agree

100%. At least four to six hours worth of it. At least four to six, if not forty to sixty hours. So I know. You're right. And my point is is having that list is the the city council sets out this agenda, says this is what we're looking to accomplish in codes. Yeah. You know? So alright.

Anything can make here.

Now Gonna make you get We'll make a motion that we adjourn and go

home. A motion from Stephanie to adjourn. Respect Kurt was right on it. Any other discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye.