Hyde Park City's Zoom Meeting

Okay.

I'll remind them if they go. Okay. Thanks. Alright.

Oh, there we go. On Zoom. Make sure it's now. Okay. Are we live? Alright. I believe we are all set up and ready to go. We've got Zoom. We've got recording. We got Zoom. We got YouTube. We got the recording. We got Colette.

K. Well We're in busy. Colette. We don't need anything else. K. Alright. I'd like to open this meeting and welcome welcome everyone to the Hyde Park Planning Commission meeting. Today is 12/17/2025. And note that all of the the commissioners are here tonight. We appreciate that. We're glad that everyone's here. And at this point, I will turn the time over to commissioner Heather Taylor who has offered or who's agreed agreed to either say a prayer or a thought and lead us in the pledge of allegiance.

I I pledge allegiance to the flag

of The United States Of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. It's been a few weeks since we've actually met publicly. I'd like to thank the city for the last two weeks ago. The party was the city party was nice. Appreciate all the the effort that went into that. If those things would be passed on back to the office staff, that would be appreciated. Looked like everyone had a good time. So k. Next thing on the on the agenda agenda is to approve the minutes from our last meeting, which was November 19. Has everyone had a chance to review those, or does anyone need more time? Nope. I didn't review it too much because it came after I looked in the box, but Yeah. I didn't see anything in my quick look. How's that? K. I didn't either. Anyone have any corrections that they'd like to or additions, deletions?

I had a small name correction that I already submitted, just the name spelling. So

Okay.

But We can listen to the recording again. Okay. So just add

add that you asked Just that I questioned if If developers everyone was notified that the water was brought back to the table. I wanted to make sure, and the answer was yes. We notified people the same way you notified them. The previous state the state noticing Yes. City and then posted the And it could be in there. There was a lot of minutes. You do a great job. Right. You're right. You do a great job, but I just did not see it jump out at me. Okay.

And if you wanna wait to approve these minutes until we've done that, you you're certainly welcome

to I think as long as you double check and add it, I'm okay. Okay. But okay. K? That sounds like a motion. I motion to approve the minutes. With those changes. With those changes. Got it. Okay. That.

So as a reminder, this is a longer month. Our next meeting will be on January 7. We'll post a notice the same way. You'll get an email with that agenda, and you guys all have a box link. Right? Nobody's having any trouble getting into box. Perfect. We'll do it the same way. But next meeting will be January 7. I know that Marcus sends out a email after city council meetings. I you guys are all getting that, so you have a update of what happened after we voted on something and how they voted. Excellent. And then I'll give you an update from our last our DRC two weeks ago. We've had quite a rash of folks developing lots, even running businesses without proper permits or approvals from the city. And so DRC did discuss stop work orders, cease and desist, the authority by which those are issued, and at what point they go to litigation or, you know, are they prosecuted? Are they code enforcement cases? That kind of thing. So, hopefully, we can, soon put in our process for taking care of those kind of things, for folks seeking forgiveness over permission. So that's our next thing to tackle at DRC. And that's all I have.

Alright. Thank you very much. We do have three items that we will talk about today and action on. Are all of these recommend approval, or are they approve? Are any of them approved? So

for the subdivision process, this is is legislative. You will recommend to city council Okay. For For the gateway. For the gateway project. Okay. Site plans, if you remember, we talked about site plans not coming to the planning commission because they are in fact administrative. You're recommending back to the zoning administrator.

Right. Back to Marcus.

To me, actually. Okay. So it's kind of circular, and it's a a waiting period and a extra step that developers have to take for site plan approval. But, yes, you're gonna recommend to zoning administrator.

Alright. So they're all recommendations just to different people. Correct. Got it. Alright. Then let's go on ahead with our first one Okay. Which is the gateway phase two.

Let's see. I'm gonna start with the vicinity map. Everybody's familiar with the gateway, I'm hoping. Am I on the right plate? Nope. I'm on the LauraSTR. Let me try again. Well, let's start here. So once upon a time, this was a commercial oh my goodness. This was a commercial subdivision, and that's why phase two of Hyde Park Gateway is coming in as a plat amendment. See if this will open today. There we go. As a plat amendment instead of final plat. This part of the Gateway Subdivision is overlapping onto that old commercial subdivision called Hyde Park Commons. And so what we're doing is amending Hyde Park Commons, part of Hyde Park Commons to be Hyde Park Gateway Phase 2, and this is the second area where they're building their townhomes. This went very smoothly through through the preliminary plat process. They have they have no red lines. They have no outstanding items. They come to you today with a complete and fully supported application from DRC. This entire subdivision was approved through development agreement back in May 2024. I don't know how many of you are on. Was that just Ned and Michael and Melinda? I think Melinda was on staff at that time. I don't think I've seen anything at that time. Oh, really? Okay. So maybe maybe only a couple of you were around for the development agreement for Hyde Park Commons. Let me go here.

That's what that development area is called. There's two different. Okay.

Yeah. So we're talking about this parcel.

Yeah.

Different. And it's just a portion of this parcel. So this would be the gateway phase one over here, Wolfpack Way, and then phase two is starting over on this side within this parcel.

It's the parcel that starts directly next to Wolfpack Way. Correct? Yes. Okay. You know, it says a lot of other things. Are there any things that were mentioned in the engineer or the DRC review that have not been taken care of or No. We this is an application,

again, that is fully complete and endorsed by DRC. There are no condition remember, we're not doing conditional approvals anymore. We're not doing contingent upon this or, you know, fix your engineering red lines. We're not moving applications through to the planning commission that still have red lines anymore. Okay. So everything has been done. Yep. Alright.

I make a motion to recommend approval of the gateway phase two cloud amendment.

Second.

Alright. Any comments or questions? Nope. We have a motion and a second to recommend approval of the gateway phase two plat to city council? But no. To you? No. To city council. To city council. Because it's DRC or because it's

a development agreement. It's a plat amendment. Okay. Through the development agreement in the MX Zone, you are recommending

approval to To the city council. Anyway, if you remember what I just said, all in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed, say nay. K. The second

let me see if my box app is going to cooperate.

Is the LinkedIn sports site plan.

So let's see if my vicinity app will work this time.

Here we are. So before we get into that, just had a quick question. Sure. I did notice that the discussion items line also contains link sports site plan. Is there a reason we have it in two places, or we just do looking at it once?

The applicant requested that he present a kind of state of the project to planning commission. So we made space on our agenda for that. Okay. Keeping all of our business items together.

Alright. So is he going to present that to us in lieu of you, or are you going to and then he's going to? I'm gonna give him the opportunity to speak during the site plan

review. And then if he wants to continue and give you the rest of the story afterward, I mean, that's up to him, I guess. K. Well, why don't you go ahead and I'm gonna see what you need to do. Yep. So here's your vicinity map. This is way out west. Originally, this building was a sports facility. If you've read the staff report, it will tell you that the use changed to a manufacturing facility, and now the use is going back to sports facility. It's been a number of years in between. So now that it's going changing from an industrial use to a sports use, which is basically general commercial, it's coming up to code. So part of that code is having site plan site plan approval to get your business license. And so approving their site plan today will allow them to move forward with their business license and their building permit. In the packet, you'll find a couple of different there's been many different versions of this site plan, not for landscaping, not for lighting, any it's just parking is where they've struggled. Their buildings are very big as you saw, and, I'm gonna give you the most current one, I believe. So the green outline here is Building 1. It takes up much of this end of the parcel, and there's not a lot of room left for parking. General commercial requires one stall per thousand square feet of building. The first site plan we were given, the building was marked out at, I believe, 61,000 square feet. The latest one has it at 59,000 square feet. So you could see that they've done their parking calculations up here as we asked them to do. So they've got a parking table that shows they needed a 119 stalls. They've struggled with let's see if I can zoom in here. They've struggled with placement. Engineering pointed out that a couple of the spots that they had didn't allow cars to back out nicely, so they've had to increase the area for turn radius and that kind of thing. So it's been a struggle for them to try to get the required number of stalls at the required size on this parcel in so much that they've if you notice, they've had to put some of their parking inside of Building 2. There's another industrial style building on the parcel, and they have set up parking inside these roll up doors. This has been all approved by the building department. It meets their indoor parking requirements. All the safety boxes have been checked. There's a letter, that the building department, gave the planning department and the applicant saying that indoor parking was absolutely fine. So they've made a genuine effort to get as much parking here as they can while they try to come up with an alternative solution for parking so that they can also use Building 2. So what we're considering today is just the use of Building 1, not the use of Building 2, and the parking that goes with Building 1. The concession that we talked about most recently was allowing five spaces in exchange for this bus stop up here on the corner. I had a very short conversation with Cache Valley Transit, and they were in favor of adding stops and possibly getting a route around the edge of town that could loop into Smithfield. So it's not like they would build this bus stop and the bus is gonna come there this week. It's kind of a build it and they will come process, but it was a way to get this site plan up and running so that it can be used in a timely manner instead of spending more time trying to finagle more parking places. Now the applicant did give up. There were, I think, three parking spots here where the interlock connection is supposed to happen, and we had them remove those and asked that that interlock connection be made. The applicant made a reasonable objection there saying, you know, you want us to keep all of our parking for this on our lot. And if you give if you make us put in that connection, then how do I keep people from just parking down at the gym all the time? So it's a legitimate concern there. And so as you can see right now, the plan that they've submitted is for no connection. They could put those parking places back there, I suppose, if the connection is somehow not done, but that's that's what's proposed today. DRC was excited about the bus stop option. They even suggested maybe a bike rack here where the connection is supposed to go so that maybe some of these participants could have a place to park their bicycle if they chose to do that. Whatever helps the parking situation not be a situation. Other than the parking, there hasn't been there are no red lines. There are no objections. There are no use issues. It's simply a parking struggle, and that may be something that we need to address in code as do we have different parking requirements for specific uses or different kinds of uses. Right now, it's commercial parking. And it's not, yeah, it's not something that you can do an exception of variance or anything like that for. So maybe it's it's time for a code update. But here we are today with this plan. Is our Do you you wanna come up to the microphone and give your two bits? Absolutely.

Yep.

See. Maybe take a look at your notes. The the you said manufacturing was one stall per thousand. Okay? No. If that was the you you said I'm just saying. I'm just correcting the record. You said that. And if that was it, we wouldn't have any issues. But it's I thought you said two. So it's maybe stalls which Commercial is two stalls. Yeah. We did say Yes. Sorry. My bad. But the manufacturing was one small per thousand. Gotcha. If that was the case We'd be fine. We wouldn't be here. That's why there's only one small per Yeah. Because it was manufacturing for a long time. Yeah. Right. So so we have everything, I guess. And and I appreciate Mikhail calling, and we talked about the bus stop, and and I think that was a a help.

Oh, do do we have to have him state his name? I know who he is. But No. Oh, right. Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. Tye Measom. K. Thank you. For the records. Resident

Yes. Resident of Hyde Park. One of the concerns we've had was with this interconnection between the two lots, and it just seems like a really odd thing because I mean, it it apparently, when they did the subdivision or the industrial part, they didn't have them do it. When they built the sports part, it wasn't put in. And when I bought the building fifteen years ago, it never came up and didn't have to do it. But the office in it never came up. And and, you know, but now it's it's part of it. So I'm like, seems, you know, kind of unreasonable to do that or to tie the project to connecting those. And and as I talked with Michal, it's it would really be a negative because we don't want our people parking over on the gym. We don't want their people parking on those. So even if when the time and expense, say, to put that through, I would probably end up just having to chain it and sign it that, you know, that our people are parking there and the the gym people are parking. So I it's just it's just kind of a funny thing. I think it ought to just just ought to be void. I I don't know why it's still there. You know what I mean? It's just an odd thing with the with the property. So I don't know. So it's to me, it's kinda no harm or foul. It's been like that for thirty years, and the neighbors are happy. And I I contacted the Carlson's yesterday, and they were like, no. We don't wanna connect those parking. So, anyway, that's the status with, you know, with that. And and kind of my ask was if if we do need to do that, I would like to maybe table that until we look at either maybe legal or look at the code or, you know, have the the city's attorney look at it on it, you know, to determine, you know, what really the status is there. What is it right now? I mean, is there It's it's not. It's just it's just if you if you pull it up. Okay. No. It's just it's just grass. Okay. It's just grass between the buildings. Okay.

Okay.

So, anyway, so that that's that was if if we can take care of that, then we can move for forward with the project, and and and we're happy. And that's really phase one. And Mikaela's correct. That's phase one. It gets us into that building, and then we'll start working on phase two, which is to move into Building 2. But, again, we've got we're gonna have to start, again, working with the city on just some other parking options there, and and and we are working on that. We have an annexation issue which needs to be taken care of and another little property issue that needs to be taken care of. We're in negotiation to get more property to add more Yeah. K. So so the that was the first issue, the the or the time that interlink between the lot. So, hopefully, we can resolve that to that. Then the the second issue is that after I met with the city council, it was then decided that I would do a a small parking study of similar facilities kind of along the Wasatch Front that were private. I mean, not, you know, city or, you know, owned to kind of see what the parking load would be. And there is, within the code, the 1270.03O, where businesses that are aren't mentioned there that there could be a conditional use permit, you know, issued for that. And so my ask would be that we go to a 1.5 stalls per thousand square feet of the building. And I brought in three cases and and looked at that that are similar. They're warehouses that have been converted or built, you know, to a sporting or a recreation facility. And so there's some examples of that to do it. So I I I don't know the exact process to to do that or if I would give that to you, Mikhail, and we would discuss that in DRC or to

Maybe I can ask some questions real quick. Sure. So the 1.5 that you're looking at Yeah. Is this for phase two

or phase one? For the whole project. It would be for both buildings. Okay. So it would be

for once you we're just working on the Building 1 at this point. Once we once

we get into Building 1, then we'll move on to Building 2 and and we'll be seeking this 1.5

for the whole complex building and Building 2. K. So I just wanted to make sure we're not gonna discuss that tonight because that's a the difference Okay. Thing of we're gonna just talk about what you've done now for the top building, the North Building. Okay. Okay. So And you looks like you've already got everything figured out with the bus stop, and I don't know why they they had that in. I can tell you why they have it, the parking lot joint, you know, the Mhmm. The flow through there. Because on some of our projects that we have, especially upon along Wolfpack Way, we're only allowed so many entrances into the road. Okay. You know, they have to have so many feet before you can have another entrance. Okay. And so that's one of the reasons why we do selling property. You know? That's not places it makes sense. In some places,

it does it may not make as much sense. Well, do you notice who the owner of the road is according to the cash Oh. County map?

Dot. You dot. You dot. Yeah.

So Yeah.

So complications arise.

Right. Here at the But they've already got an entrance. M and K Properties already has has an entrance. Right? Right. Mhmm. Yeah. They don't need another entrance, do they? No. No. No. They've been they've been doing just fine with one for thirty years, like I'm saying. Happy for thirty But that's why I think there's that interconnection

requirement is because of how this subdivision started and and

yeah, the We we did that really for the neighbor. Mixed use things along Wolfpack Way, I think, is the biggest reason we had that pass through requirement.

So I I think you I mean, right now, I think you got a win going to be able to pull this off for your phase one. And to get to the next thing with different numbers Yeah. That's gotta be a code change. Yeah. That's gonna take more time. So you wanna take your win so you can get this thing open right now. That that sounds great. And that Yeah. You know? And then and I'm I'm kinda learning the process here too with this. So it's So I but I I mean and I think, you know, speaking from all of our codes in general, some of them, they people just took shots on numbers, pulled them from other codes, and Yeah. And there's and it's kinda general in some cases. You know? It because it just for example, if you just have, like, 10 employees in your big building, you know, if it's just a really light manufacturing and you you you'd like you you don't need a lot. But if you're doing other things, if you had 300 employees in that building, then then it would be a bigger deal. So there there is and when you try to do one code to do all, then that's where you get in this thing. It doesn't work. Most of a lot of manufacturing places are point five. Because, again, you you have six guys working in the warehouse. Right. And that's kind of where we've been with it. So Right. So I think I'd if I might yeah. Go ahead. Take your win. Okay. We think Okay. We'll take the win. Yeah. Can you just say historical question?

Yeah. He's mentioned that before it was a sports. Yeah. That's what it was originally built for. Then manufacturing the sports. And when it was sports before, what was the parking requirement? Was it a similar use to what you're looking to do? Right? It was a long time. It was, like, twenty years ago. So remember, we haven't had a lot of ordinances in

place. Right. Yeah. Just I just I don't know. I think some guy just built it, and they said, hey. It's a sport it's a indoor soccer gym, I think is what it would be. No. No. It's a soccer gym originally, I think. That was a soccer field. Yeah. I remember going down there. Yeah. So And what you're thinking of doing is more like a sports academy?

No. Not a sports academy. This is it's just a a a turf field that's still it's a soccer field, multiuse soccer football. Complex maybe, but it's not No. Not well yeah. But it's but it's private. It's more of via a a a private training facility for, you know, teams and Okay. So it's not public. Like, it it's mostly like you said private. It'll be and then that's my definition. It is a private training sports facility.

And then just to clarify, how many parking spots are you sure on phase one? How many do you have?

Well, we I didn't see He's got enough. He's got a 119. Right? Two hundred and Hundred and nineteen, and he only needs a 118. Right? So you're Sorry. Sorry.

Good on phase one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Again.

Great. Yeah. So so as as design and submitted here, we're we're good Right. For phase one and for the build. Right.

Yep. So the yeah. Dovetailing on what was just said. If you were to say tonight, I wanna do the 1.5, we'd have to deny you because code says we have to do. So let's, yeah, let's let's work with what we got. The second part of this, I suspect Tite have wanted to make. I mean

You're you're ahead of us. Yeah. A lot of people in the community have been interested in the facility, what we're doing, you know, just just because there's this need from, you know, all the high schools and university. And so it's kinda just making you aware this is what's going on down on the West Side. Right. This is what some of our challenges are. We're trying to work through those, and and so hopefully deny if we work through problem one here. Right. Yeah. Building one open, get that going. That'll really let us see what kind of flow that we're we're getting, and then we'll start working with Mikhail and the Citi's team to Right. You know, to get phase two up and going. Right. Anything other than the two would require a code change, and that takes longer. So it'll take a while to work. Yeah. The one thing I might I'm looking at this, and Mikhail mentioned that that one spot where the pass through was originally intended to be. Yeah.

Someone suggested a a bike rack or something.

Motorcycle spots. No. That no. That'll be a great place. We could come in and put I don't know what the sizing there is, Nikhil, right now. We we just we could look at that. We'd go boom boom boom. That's a great great idea. Yeah. So motorcycle and put bikes. I don't know.

As a as a cyclist, I don't know if I drag like to ride or walk across parking lot after I've parked. I wanna go right into the door Yeah. Get to work.

So And we and we've got some other spaces where we can't park that would make sense to do, you know, a a bike park we can do. Right. That's a great thing for Hyde Park. Yeah. We love it. Thank you. Love the project. Alright. Alright. Thanks, man. Thank thank you. If there's no more questions, we'll we'll leave this next phase, Mikael. We'll dive into to what we're doing there.

Okay? Alright. K. Thank you so much. Appreciate

it. Alright. I have a few questions. Sure. I guess I missed it. Is Camp Chef gone from all of the buildings? No. Camp Chef is still Some of the buildings.

For the main office. Their headquarters are here. I mean, and some warehouse. Oh. I mean, the the current owners have combined a number of different brands. I think they buy a bunch of, you know, shipping things.

Hi. Could you come back up to the microphone?

Yeah. It it doesn't catch anything unless it's on the microphone. And that was just a curiosity thing? Yeah. Yeah. Camp Chef is still in what I call Building 4, and the office is kind of in the there. And, hopefully, we can keep him here. I mean, that business is in transition and and So just put everything in. It's the That building. Right. Yes. Yeah. LOP properties would be located in Shaft. This is theirs.

Okay. Yep. Uh-uh. That sounds good. One over here probably. I'm not sure if there's anything there.

But Yeah. We're yeah. I don't think that we we only need to talk about that. Okay. Yeah. That's it. Okay. So, like, on that process.

On that indoor parking, would it have to be open all the time, or could they just watch and see, like, it's getting full? We need to go to that overflow parking.

Do you want me to speak to the building inspector's Sure. Letter? So the building inspector said in his letter, and I can pull that up if if you guys wanna read it, that the indoor parking would be considered, like, VIP or valet parking, that it's not the go to first thing, that it is technically overflow or maybe it's employees or, you know, it's not just it's not the kids that are gonna be in there. It's it's gonna be specific overflow folks if it's needed. Good good good condition.

Yeah. And I I love the idea of a bicycle rack and the bus stop and yeah. I don't think we need that connection there either. I think I was here when we put that we wanted these commercial businesses to have that connection, but I think it's, yeah, it's based on maybe we need to change it to, like, limited access roads or, like, the I guess the highway is a limited access, but somewhere where it's just too busy. You know, you think of, like, the Sportsman and Little Caesars and, you know, Zions Bank. Like, it's so nice to go to stay within without without having to go on the road. So that's what we meant, but there's always those unintended consequences, and this sounds like one of those. So I'm just fine with not having that connection beyond that backside road. Is it legal to park on the street there too? Yeah. There is street parking. It it's legal. But We didn't allow them to count street parking. That in Right. The Right. But I like having that as overflow as well. Yes. You're not gonna get a lot on the street. But I know when you guys had your big sales, it got packed, and that was hard to get through. But Thank heavens that was only once a year. Yeah. And they were really good sales, so nobody complained. I definitely, Mikael, I definitely think we need to update our parking ordinance. We've done that for a long time. We just don't know what to update it to. We don't there's just so many varied uses

that have changed so much. But There are. And we we do need to do some updates, and we need to allow for a lot of different kinds of businesses if we want a very diverse economy here in Hyde Park. As you know, that's important for survivability. So that being said, our struggle today is how to approve this site plan so that they can just get a business license and

and get on with it. Right. And as far as today, I'm I'm good with it. I'd be happy to make a motion to recommend approval of this site plan. And I would second that.

Alright. We have a a motion to recommend approval to the land use authority. I think that's what we're doing. Right? Yep. Yep. And a second. I do have one more question or comment, and that is as you go into operation, if this goes through, is there a way that he could use a study of his own parking needs or how much is actually being used. I think that would be really smart. Yeah? Instead of Yeah. Instead of relying on

And there's reports replaces. Yeah. Facilities

Right. Throughout the state, which are everyone has their own circumstance. Yep. Use your own as your own study and say, okay. On on Monday, we have to take 15 cars. Yeah. Whoever's in charge of the cars. On Tuesday, we had 40 cars. On Wednesday, we didn't have any cars Keep your on Saturday. Good day. But Yeah. You know, sort of do that and then just say, hey. This is the That would be That sounds good. That's the goal of getting phase one going there Right. To just see how we're Right. You know, Right. Servicing And that may very well be able to help justify a phase two with changes if if that

becomes necessary. Okay. That sounds like So So in my opinion, you end up not even using all of those.

Yeah. It could be. Are you or is it is it just a training, or is there gonna be events there too? It's gonna be training. I mean, if we get phase two done, that that building will have sports in it that you could have some ornaments or some events. Okay. But this this building is really just training. The training doesn't use near as much as event. Yeah. Can you clarify just what sports, like, mostly soccer, football? Soccer, football, softball, baseball. Okay. Are the high schools using this, or is this more That's what we've had. A lot of interest from the high schools. It's like the the girls' softball team does not have any place to practice. Yeah. Right. And the the the lacrosse teams at the high school don't have any place to practice. Okay. Yeah. Especially when we have a late spring. Yeah. In in the late spring. And and and I think just on the load, we're we're you know, we'll just have to figure out, obviously, you know, the times of use with this or from Mhmm. You know, 03:00. The majority of this can be 03:00 to say midnight. And, you know, and heavier in the winter months than it is the the Some you know, the summer months. And so, you know, to your point, yeah, we're gonna have to see what the, you you know, kind of what the flow is.

You know? Some more grass sports, not basketball,

not football. Phase two in that other building, we're we're we're anticipating basketball, volleyball Okay. Primarily. And that's that'll be a court space. And so that's where you could get some tournaments.

Okay.

Okay. Alright. Any other questions or comments? Nope. Okay. Well, we have a motion and a second to recommend approval to the land use authority to approve this site plan. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed, say nay. Alright. Congratulations. Well, thank you. You still have to get it past her. She's simple and use authority.

Alright. Well, we So much authority. Are we good, Mikael?

I will I will follow-up with paperwork with you. Yes. Alright. K. Thank you. One thing at a time. Absolutely.

Mikael. She'll have it done in, like, twenty nine. This is fortunate. So we gotta get out there. We gotta get it. K. Thank you for your time. We appreciate

it. Mikael, on those letters where you were telling them, like, that their application was complete or not, those don't have dates on them. Is that normal?

No. Because those were letters that we had generated inside the software that we use right now. Do you remember how you would have to, like, write up letters and so these will take the information from the application and auto generate, and you fill in the things that they but one of the things it doesn't do is is date stamp those. And it sends sends it to the applicant within the portal, so it's not like somebody has to, you know, pull up from their email that it was it keeps track in there of all the correspondence. And so because it does it in the system, maybe that's why it doesn't date stamp when it system. You can look and see when Oh, absolutely. Went. Yeah. We're just not seeing it printed on there. No. And what I kinda wanted to show you with all of those is this chain of back and forth that we've had to do with, no. You can't do that. And they would say, okay. But can we do this? And we'll know that doesn't work, but you could try this. And it's just it's been a struggle on both sides. And where our code doesn't have any flexibility or much flexibility, it's it's been difficult. It's been ongoing, and it's really great to have some some closures to this and kinda get it over with. And we'll we'll figure out the next phase two, I guess, starting tomorrow. We'll start working on that. Is that software

one that's been made for Hyde Park City? Do we have a software

No. It's not specific to it's a program that we use. It's clearly not it's it clearly gets the job done and has done well for a while, and now it's time to upgrade.

And we The state's already good and

important. It's good that you can find it. For the applicant to be able to print something like that out and keep it in their records so that they can say, hey. I had this letter. You know, everybody wants the everybody wants the receipts. Right? So yeah. Okay. We're gonna do better. Alright. Alright. Let's see where we're at. Let's move on to

the final of the three action items. This is the Mora short term rental site plan. Okay. Now I've got the right vicinity map.

So here we are. Close. I'm sorry? I was just. It's not a public hearing. No. Okay. Sorry. So here we are in sort of Downtown Hyde Park. This is the R 2 zone. Torto. And if you can see on your vicinity map, here's this parcel off of 300 East. Center Street is to the south. Are you guys oriented? Here's where we just did the rezone for Camille. Who on the corner. Okay. Camille's house. Alright. If you're oriented, then I will go to this site plan

Mhmm.

Which is not drawn up on the computer. This is analog.

This is old school. This is. It used to be.

Was it a napkin? It was not a napkin.

But we can work we can work with this. Really, what this is is just site plan for short term rental. And in our short term rental code under number under letter b number four, it just says here's what the application has to include, site plan that shows off street parking areas in relation to the home. So if you'll see, here's the garage where they declare two cars can fit and a driveway that can fit four more. It's a pretty good sized driveway. Let me go back to the vicinity map. Armando Moore. I'm just I don't even know if I can spell it. It's there. Apologies. But it is a pretty good sized driveway cement. Out? I thought he'd be here. So this meets all of the terms of short term rental application. This applicant has not been operating illegally. This is not a code enforcement case. We've had that in the past where these short term rental applications are are stemmed from a code enforcement case. That's not the case here. This is a legit application to be a legit short term rental. And so approval of this site plan showing that he does have plenty of off street parking will allow him to receive his business license and start renting short term.

Does he live there now? He does. And is he moving out then? That's not a question on the application. A question? Mhmm. Have neighbors been are neigh neighbors supposed to be notified of this? Mhmm. I know, like, I've gotten letters when preschool or anything's I've gotten letters.

So when businesses come in that require a conditional use permit, which is often the case with, daycare because those often happen in a residential area k. Notices go out. But for home occupations or home based businesses, That's

Like, if someone's an accountant in their home, they don't notify you. But the preschool, because there's drivers,

because there's more traffic and And because they require a certain kind of permit. This is simply this is equivalent to a home occupation.

Well yeah. I mean, the fact is we allow short term rentals. So if we don't like them, we shouldn't disreter.

Yeah. So remember, we did Sorry. We did have this conversation during the very first section of ordinances that I suggested needed to be updating that did we need to zone for short term rentals. Is there a part of town where they should exist? Is there a part of town where they shouldn't exist? Should it be everywhere but, or should it be only here? And the feedback we got from planning commission was that we only have one or two, so it's really not that big of a deal. I thought we decided that we should limit the number overall, not necessarily

one neighborhood or another, but maybe acting about

ways to ways that we could, but I did go back and reread the minutes, and the general consensus was it's it's it's not a there's only a few. It's not a big deal. So remember that all of those townhouses that have been approved for the MX, those can all be short term rental.

They're in place. Yeah. There's

there's right now in Hyde Park, they can be anywhere. They can be in a residential subdivision. They could be I don't think they can be in the industrial area, but they can be in any residential zone. And if that's great and everybody's fine with that, then we have no reason to address it. Can we let If you wait until it's an issue and you become reactive, that's when there's problems. So you may wanna just stew on and think about how much of your housing in Hyde Park you wanna dedicate to short term rental and how much you wanna dedicate to

I have a comment. I wanna amend whatever comment they made before and say, yeah. We should revisit.

Okay. Okay. I I I'll go ahead. I was gonna say, I would like to see it limited to x amount in certain proximity so that you don't end up with a whole bunch on one street or a whole bunch in one area.

I think that's how they do it in Logan. It's kind of a first come, first serve. If you're the first one in the neighborhood, then there can't be one within a certain number of feet.

I would like to see that. How that works. But Because we're we're doing smaller lots and especially where there's townhomes, and those were already passed where we could require them to be principal residents. Correct? We can't. The townhomes that are currently The townhomes that are currently approved could be short term rentals out of this. Okay. So those are past this phase where we could put requirement that they need to be owner occupied. Right. Okay. For future ones, I would love to see them on our occupancy requirement. Some are rentals. They haven't

they have not applied for Short term rentals. Okay. So Right. But we also do that we apply

from that point on. And we also can't do owner occupant requirement on those either. Correct? Correct. They're two hour long. Okay. Because then you could have a non owner occupant that could turn it into rental or short term rental or a Airbnb or you can end up with a whole bunch of rentals. And that's my worry with the smaller units.

I would agree with what she said. I mean, I'm new or so I wasn't even here when that was discussed, but I think we should look at that. Revisit that again. Okay. Melinda had some really good suggestions about

how many and location and that kind of thing and if it's something we need to zone for. High Park is growing quickly,

and we don't wanna I think it's better to be ahead than behind.

And we see instead of reactive. I've seen areas in cities where

a street that whole street just becomes short term rentals, run down. And Yeah. And I just wanna keep Hyde Park balanced. So I think we should revisit it if possible. That's a good point. New Year's resolution like that. Balanced.

Yeah. We can we can definitely revisit that if you guys wanna do that. Let me make a note. But for this one, everything is But for this one, everything's on up and up. The zoning is correct. The the home, it's there's nothing nothing to pop up any red flags or any restrictions on it. Can you go

back to the lot without having the Let's find out. Zoning colors on it so that I can no. The zoning colors won't come off of that because it's I can go to the parcel viewer and I Right there. Yeah. Just slide it up and

To this neighborhood. Sorry. The who didn't pay their taxes layer is on okay. Let's see. Yep. Yeah. Center. And

Right? Right there. Yep. Because I was looking at that parking lot, and I don't think I don't well, can you zoom in a little more? One more zoom? He does up thinking. There's

two little car or, oh, there's three cars in the parking lot or in the driveway right now. Pretty wide, I guess. Oh, yeah. It is wide.

This is my neighbor. It's in my backyard, and I'm about to vote for it. Your family could come stay there for the holidays. I know. I I actually thought of that. I have a daughter who does that.

have a motion and a second. I still have some more questions Sure. On the can you go back to the not the vicinity map, but go back to the site plan. Again, site plan. One of the things on the on the application that said, I'd like to do the whole house, but if not, I'll do the basement, which is already can I guess, it's already An ADU? Equipped out to become a yeah, an accessory dwelling unit internal. It does have looks like it has laundry, and it has kitchen.

I'd love to

better to do that. What are we voting for? Are we voting for a single

He wants to unit? He wants to do the entire house. K. As one unit? As one unit. Okay. Oh, because you can only have one unit. Right. K. So his choices are live in the house and rent out the basement that. Or don't live in the house and rent the whole thing.

To just one person? To just one person? The whole To just well, just one rental. Only one To one rental. The whole house is one rental, not two. Okay. Right.

K. Can't have two listings on VRBO.

Just one. Correct. So we So when it comes time for business license, he'll have to make that choice.

Okay. Alright. Any other comments or questions? K. Alright. So we have a motion to recommend approval. Motion and a second to recommend approval to the land use authority or the Morris, short term rental site plan. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. All those opposed, say nay. Alright. Great. Look. We're everything. I know. Nothing nothing. It's before 08:00. We gotta fill it up. Right? No. We don't. We'll talk about three months. That's how we do That's how. Just kidding. Except are there future items? We discussed one already, possible short term rental limitations.

Parking ordinance. Parking ordinance. Yeah. And the connecting lots ordinance. Well, it's not an I mean, it's a part of the process of Yeah.

Development standards in the commercial zone. Yeah. The the the determining factor in that specific location is that's in a subdivision. It's in a commercial subdivision. So the connectivity is required in a commercial subdivision. If those were just individual lots and individual businesses, there wouldn't necessarily be that requirement there. Or we wouldn't necessarily expect those neighbors to interconnect. But because this is in a subdivision and when that subdivision was plotted, that other business built their part, the little bump out, and he was supposed to finish his. I think in my staff report, I noted that that subdivision had been altered through a means that I don't know. Originally, all of the lots in that subdivision were horizontal and they all met the road, and there really wouldn't have been a need for interconnection. Somehow, they've changed in there all these weird shapes now, and there's a bunch of accessory buildings in the parking lots, and I think that's what's led to the parking problem there. Because, really, if he didn't have the big shed there and the parking and the or the yeah. If the parcel was shaped like it was supposed to be originally, I don't I don't think we'd be having this discussion. But, yeah, we do need we do need to decide if this connection thing is good in certain places, good everywhere, just in commercial subdivisions, or if it stays across the board. That's definitely something that needs to be determined because this isn't gonna be the last time that we hear this. I don't think there's there's a lot of older subdivisions and older parcels that are getting ready to be developed or split or change their use, and we need to be able to direct them the right way so that they can Okay. Use their property rights. K.

I have a question regarding short term rental. If we switch the ordinance to be within certain proximity, do you think that would incentivize some of them that are operating without a license to grab their license now and be the first to get it?

It may. I think people who are gonna do things without a permit or without a license are are gonna try to do it without a permit, not without a license as long as they can. That's just kind of been my experience. Mhmm. Usually, it takes a code enforcement case to have folks get the permits or the permissions that they need to do a thing. They'd rather just do the thing. But I don't know. It might.

If it were me, I'd be like, oh, you know, we can start by get on the books. Yeah. As long as you can. But if you know that get it. You're just gonna be shut down. Absolutely. I think it would motivate people to if there's getting serious about doing that, to go ahead and take that step and get licensed. Sure. I do know of an area that did that, and it actually did enforce people. They wanted

they did apply for the application. So, again wanna lose out. It's up to the people. Right? We don't know. It's a gamble. But this the area that I'm aware of, they did jump to the table. And they wanted their application, and they only allowed first come, first serve, and they capped it. So Like that idea. Yeah. And then for future items, we mentioned at the last meeting, I again, I'm new, so I apologize if I'm just the animal. Ask for the question. Yeah. The definition of nuisance. The definition of nuisance and just looking at all the codes of the animals. Hyde Park has grown, and so we do need to I don't know how we put that on or what we do, but I just don't want that

to fall behind because I think we do need to address it. We do have an opportunity coming up. What was that survey called that the college was doing? The well-being survey is coming back around again, and we have the opportunity to put a couple of questions on there. And I think that'd be a really good opportunity to pull see what the people want. What what That's a great What do the people want? Is Yeah. Are we in are we a no pets town? Are we a pets inside only town? Are we a is it Lord of the Flies and all the goats get to roam free? What what are we? What do the people want? And so maybe that would be a good place to ask those questions and actually find out. When you have to think when you have to answer a question about it, it makes you stop and consider, you know, what do I want for me versus what do I what kind of neighborhood I wanna live in versus

what's gonna happen five years from now. So I think we talked about having a presentation of the existing ordinances so that we can understand them. But I think I know when I went and read them, I think you guys had some experience. It's like, but this does make sense because it conflicts with this. I actually downloaded

the I it's called the planner's dictionary. It's it's a very large volume of lots of definitions of terms because I was trying to really get to the exact what does this mean? I don't think we're gonna I don't think we wanna spend time and effort DNA testing cats to see what genus or whatever it is that they are, but our code gets into those minutiae Wow. Of

do. Ours doesn't. Yeah. Ours does. Ours does. Ours does. Ours does.

And I there's some words in there that I don't know. And so Marcus and I have been having some lively discussions about there has to be a reason this is in here. We'd love if we could match up some history or maybe a thing happened or there was a situation, we'd really love to find out. Is it a pig cat or a bobcat? Yeah. But, you know, clearly, we don't have the time to just peruse the old newspapers and find that kind of thing out. But we have had a lot of discussion about there's a there's a reason these rules got put into place. What are we undoing if we undo these? And it can't just be, you know, on a whim. We definitely need to go through the process. So reason for the rule. Yeah. So we are we're gathering our information to make a

presentation that makes sense. I did notice there were a few sections of the code that had that just listed something. They weren't defined anywhere. Nope. There there's no definition to him. And I was like

And I think it's important to know why. Right. And I think it's important to know I mean, you always have to ask who are we helping, who are we hurting, and who are we leaving out when we do this. Yeah. And so I think those are important questions to ask so that we truly know what our purpose is for making these changes, that it's that it's not just

on a whim or to address one issue. We don't wanna be reactive. Right? Just the new people and not just the people that have lived here for fifty years. Right. Neither. Like right. There's Unintended What's that?

with government just because Well, whatever You can always get you make, you have to enforce. Right. And who's gonna do that? Who's gonna pay for it?

How are we going to enforce it? What are the consequences gonna be? Like, it opens a lot of Like And I think gonna hurt. Survey wise, I almost think that should be its own survey because I think, like she said, you would have to alert everybody. That's that would have so many opinions on it that I think we need it to be by itself. And I think people are, hey. This is about this. Have that. Yes, sir. Yeah.

Maybe you can put it in your your

On the manage letter. I read that every month. We would need a couple months notice on that one, I think. Or I think we'd have the backlash. I didn't know.

Hey.

I read it. Hold on. You're one of the five? I read it before. 6005

I've always read it. I was like, I like this community.

Alright. Anything else that do we have a instead of just talking about future things, do we have, like, a timeline that we when would we like to talk about these things? Sooner rather than later, things that we could put on the back burner, you know, when. And I'm not suggesting that any of those options. I would like to hear your opinions. Like, let's say the nuisance definition. When when do we need to know that? Is that something we know right away, or it can it wait for the rest of the the the animal thing and the survey possibly?

It's linked to so many things construct It is. Yeah. I mean, developments. Short term rental?

I think short term rental is probably our prior that would be my recommended priority. Seems like we had to have, like, a list a running list of the ones that are gonna come up. And then as soon as the staff has able to put together a package, we should shoot for maybe one per meeting.

You wanna do per meeting? Like a and get your package together for Like a thirty minute workshop before or after

a meeting or digital workshop or something. Or just at the end when we're doing discussion. Okay. You know? Yeah. Doesn't have to be

I think parking is Parking as well. I it's that's the most expensive land use there is out there is parking. We we require people to pave it,

and it's that's an expensive use of I sound like a transportation engineer, and I get a lecture all the time about look at all this part. Yeah. I understand.

Yes. But and I love in theory the concept of shared parking, but I know you're putting that on, you know, neighbors to work that out together. And, well, your customers dripped oil and mine are clean. I mean, I don't know what that's like. So I love a lot of things in theory, and I love I would like to think that anyone coming to us could say, I'm really only gonna need six spots. Here. Specific use. I think I'm gonna need a 150 spot. Says. Yeah. And somehow that they can justify that. But I I for me, parking's a top priority. K. I don't know how to fix it, but it needs to be addressed. I don't know the answer. I agree

parking,

The next quarter? Talk couple meetings. Yeah. Yeah. And I like the idea of a workshop.

Doesn't have to be Yeah. And I'd like input, you know, from the city council if they have ideas on what they think we should be looking at. That's important to us too.

Are we gonna do fifth week workshops together with city council, Brian? Or What is it? New Year's Eve? There's one for you. Oh, thanks. I'll We're here alone. I'll zoom in at what? Midnight my time?

Wednesday. Certainly, revisit that. Yeah.

So that would be I don't think we're gonna have a fifth week until May. April. March? April.

Yeah. Maybe not. Yeah.

So okay. But first quarter, we could do a whole bunch of

It may require people coming in an additional night for a few minutes or saying coming earlier or saying later, whichever

I think coming earlier is a good option because we already have the night locked out. It's not

So Alright.

Marcus is supposed to put city council maybe once a month. We come in an hour early for learning sessions, workshops, whatever. So maybe as we develop maybe as we as we develop what's on those schedules Okay. That we ought to invite the planning commission to that too. Because whatever we're learning and need to learn them, you know, you know, it would probably apply to you. So, anyway, that's that's one of the things that we're gonna do. A good idea. Thank you, random citizen.

Could you please state your name for the record?

Well, we don't have we don't have the room microphones. We only have the and if you watch on YouTube and people in the audience speak and you're watching it on YouTube, I what are they saying? So, yes, microphones are important. Alright. I think we're ten minutes. We find eleven. I think we're Take

Go ahead. Say it. My husband is not I make a motion. We adjourn. I second it. Alright. We have a motion and a second to adjourn. No discussion is needed. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Sir? Wow. You're Yeah. You know, it's all being recorded.

Okay. The tape draft is okay.