Hyde Park City Council Meeting 3.25.2026

Have a little breather after you had it. Pretty good. Pretty quick. Yes. You can have.

It's taking off. It's taking off?

Oh, absolutely.

Hey, Eric. I'm missing your name, Ted.

One moment. I can do it. I just I just I just give everything else.

We know it's it's she wants it.

Okay. I'll look forward.

Alright. The live stream is on, so let me know when you're ready to the to start the recording.

Let's go ahead. Wanna welcome everybody to our March 25 Hyde Park City Council meeting. We appreciate you coming to share input and to be informed on what's going on in the city. We're gonna have a opening prayer and for thought and pledge by council member Osborne. Right. Thank you.

Our dear kind heavenly fathers, we gather here as a city of finance, agenda,

as citizens of our community.

We are thankful for this beautiful place that we have to live, and and we pray, heavenly father, as we make decisions and may and have discussions tonight, it'll do so in a the proper temperament and the decisions we made for the best of the community. We're thankful for this country that we have to to worship and go about as we fill, and we're thankful for those that provide that freedom. And These things we pray for in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen. Will you please stand and join me in the pledge of allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the prime, of The United States Of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you.

My guy remind me to mute my phone. Sorry. It was I was playing music in the office. The first thing on the agenda is to approve the meeting minutes from March 11. Dave, do you have anything? I don't.

I don't.

Yes, ma'am. I do not. No changes.

Okay.

Having none, I'd look for a motion to approve. I move that we approve the

minutes from the 03/11/2026

meeting. We got a motion to approve the meeting minutes. I'll second it. From Dave and a second from Tiffany. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed with aye. On the agenda, there I would like to move under number seven, Cash Meadows to change it down to the bottom. It becomes c. They're running late, so we'll have them at the end.

That's alright? Yep. That's good.

With that amendment, if council has anything else. If not, I'd look for a motion to approve the amendment.

I'll make a motion that we approve the agenda with the amendment. Second.

Alright. Motion from Stephanie, a second from any discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay. Thank you. Now is the time to hear any questions or comments for the council. Please limit it to three minutes, and we may not if it's not on the agenda, we may not be able to answer, but we'll try and get as much as we can. So we'll open that up at this time for resident input. Having none, we'll close that, and we'll move on to

Marcus from staff. Council, I apologize. I did not have I did not make enough time this week to provide a staff report for you, and so I do not have one ready to for consideration. But please know that there is one there will not be a city council meeting on April 22 due to a majority of you being down in Saint George for League of Cities and Towns midyear conference. I was reminded that that is also the night we are supposed to have our monthly workshop to discuss the general plan, And so I just wanted to ask if there was another night that month where we wanted to get together to discuss the general plan.

I would say either in two weeks or we don't do one in April. In other words, do it two weeks before our next city council meeting, or we could do it before the planning commission, either of those

times. But It might be nice to do it before the planning commission because we've done all of them before the city council. Yeah. Yeah. So it's not on the fifteenth? I won't be here on the fifteenth, but I was here today. So If I can This is the next one. League.

Utah league.

No. The league's on the twenty second. June 22. Yeah. So the fifteenth, I think we should be fine.

Was that the April 15? April 15. Yeah.

Perhaps we should do it with planning commission. We've done it on ours. Yeah. Eight look okay?

Yeah. I I won't be here on the fifteenth, but I yeah. Go ahead. I think that's a good idea to Excuse me. It's either first or

or we have a fifth

a fifth week, and we do it that one Mhmm. Twenty ninth. Twenty ninth.

I don't have anything on the twenty ninth.

If there's no objection, just tell Marcus what's planned on twenty ninth. It's the fifth week. Okay. Don't we have a council meeting tonight too? It's the fifth What?

The twenty ninth? May. We can do the fifteenth.

I mean, fifteenth and twenty ninth. What are we doing? Fifteenth? Twenty ninth. I can't make the fifteenth, but I would think it'd almost be easier for me if I was gonna be here just to come on an on one of those nights. It's certainly, I think, would be easier for the planning commission to come an hour early than to do a fifth Wednesday when

that's an open night for everybody to maybe not have to come in and do something. Yeah. I'd be You can do it next the first or fifteenth. We're on the first. I mean, I'd be planning commission. No. We can do it on the first. The planning commission isn't gonna have a meeting on the first because that's spring break, and most of them will be gone. That's right. K. Fifteenth. So fifteenth it is. That's what I'm hearing. April 15 is the next general plan workshop. 6PM here just before the planning commission meeting. K.

Alright. Really, the only thing I have is we had a budget meeting this week, and it was mentioned that And I think it was in in how it was interpreted that no parks, grants, things like that will be going in. That's your decision as a council. So that is all totally up to you. And I think what it's more specific in that large grants because they require a plan, which we don't have yet. But if you're putting in for, you know, parks or tables, things like that, absolutely. Those those are not the big ticket.

Yeah. So we missed the window for a lot of those grants for this fiscal year, but the budget meeting we had was for next fiscal year. So, yeah, if if the council wants to have grant applications for stuff, great. Let's build it into the budget so we can match contributions.

Typically, some of these small ones are not matched. So I think you must even put them for 1,500

or something. I I did put in for the healthy food access grant from the Healthy Healthy Utah. Yep. And we'll know by the March, but that isn't a match contribution. It's up to $2,000.

That's great.

And I presume we have not heard anything on the grant you applied for that

parks land trails plan. Nope. K. Nothing from you, Dot.

I need to back up for just a minute. I am not going to be here on the fifteenth, but so I can go forward, but I will not be available.

Okay. Alright. The chief is away at the conference, so we'll just go into number seven. Consider ordinance twenty twenty six one, and ordinance annexing 2.46 acres down at Tymeasum. This is cleaning up that boundary Mhmm. Right down there by where Camp Chef was. We already had multiple discussions in this. So since it's annexing, we need to have it open up to a public hearing. So we will open it up. Marcus, can you pull that map up so Yeah. Anyone out there can see Just try what they're doing.

So this means that we did our piece, went to the county, county did their part. It's back here now. Yep. The final. Okay. Yeah. And I wish Dania was here to tell you the details because

she's been tracking this one. I've kinda lost track of where this one's at. So but, yes, it I believe that where it's at is it's ready for the council's final approval. And just to remind everybody, we're talking about this parcel right here, and the issue at hand is the parcel is half in, half out of the county, essentially. And so the annexation is to move this solid black line, which is the county boundary, to match the existing property boundary.

So we're annexing this.

We think what happened is He's trying to make it square. Yeah. We think what happened is back in the day, they just kinda carved this up. And then as people came and realized there was a canal here, they moved the property line to match the canal. Arc. But they didn't move the city boundary. So that's what's being proposed.

So we'll open the public hearing up now. Having no comment, we'll close that and open it up for council discussion or motion.

Well, I move that we approve ordinance twenty twenty six dash zero one and axing 2.46 acres pursuant to section 10 dash two dash 800 requested by Tyme Mason.

We've got a motion to approve.

I'll second it. And second

from Stephanie. Motion to approve was Dave. Any discussion? All in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed with nay? The next item is to consider ordinance twenty twenty three or twenty twenty six zero three, a minor short lived in the ordinance. This was a new upload today, so if you had it from another earlier.

So as a reminder for the council, this was presented to the planning commission last month. They had a public hearing. Everything went well. There were a couple of questions we needed clarification from the city attorney. We had his review, and he said it looked great. And so the version before you today the only difference between the version that was presented previously before the attorney comments is this section right here, 13 dot 40 dot that should be zero four zero, was initially a paragraph format, and we just broke it out into bullet points to make it a lot easier for people to see the requirements for that.

So having that, we will open up the public hearing. Or

Mayor, there's this isn't a public hearing. It's just a consider. Or code? Yeah. The planning commission already held the public hearing, and the changes that were made recommended by the attorney weren't substantive. It was just formatting. And so the public hearing has already been satisfied.

Thank you, mayor, for giving the public more time, though. Yeah.

Yeah. If you if you want to, you can Yeah. Have a call to the public.

Well, on a side note, that's what we were trying to say in the workshop, but wasn't able to finish what I was saying. But the open public meetings are not limited to planning commission. It can happen in city council as well if we so that's the minimum. You said it's subs it's minor?

Minor subdivision. So as a reminder changes? Yeah. The changes, again, were just formatting. We took that one paragraph and changed from paragraph form to bullet point form because it is a checklist for things we're looking for with compliance when we do the subdivision review. So we broke it out from paragraph to bullet point so we could reference that a lot easier.

There was a previous version with some notes earlier today.

Yep. And those were notes for the city attorney. Okay. And so we got his review back. The version that had been uploaded for you was copy paste from last meeting. And so I found that just a few hours ago, and so I put in the new one from the city attorney. Okay. But just so you know, the notes were about checking to make sure that this language in section oh, this the very top of the second page, these notes that are supposed to be on the plat for minor subdivisions Mhmm. That was one note to make sure that these were good to go and compliant with our city code and the state code. The attorney said that looked great. K. The other note was for timeline of approval down here on the final section. Previously, we had it as ninety days, but after thinking about it and getting comment from the planning commission, we put that to a year, and attorney said, yeah. One year is a a good timeline for us to have on our approvals. So those were the two notes. Okay. And then the other note that was in there, the third note, was the formatting to take that paragraph and turn it into bullet points.

So I've I've done the compared documents, and there's very minor in nature comparing with the current. Council, do you have any comment or which since I opened the public meeting, I'll close that one. Council, do you have anything you'd like to add or make motion on this?

I'll move that we approve the update to ordinance twenty twenty six dash zero three minor subdivision ordinance. I'll second that.

And a motion from David and a second from Tiffany to approve 2026 Dash 03. Any more discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay? The next item of business is Cash Meadow skilled nursing senior development impact fees as service discussion. Marcus, can you step us through this portion? I'm trying to pull it up here. Yes.

There it is. There it is. So the two items that were in the packet for you to review, one, there was a letter from the developer, which they are here tonight. So if you would like to have questions for them after, I'm sure they'd be happy to come up and address those. So there's a letter with the request for an impact fee reduction, and then I put in an email that the city staff sent back to the applicant explaining our position. I hope everyone had a chance to read the letter from the developer. Basically, their the letter explains why they feel like they should get discounts for a lot of the impact fees, and I won't go through those one by one here because I'm assuming you've all read that letter. But if you want, we can do that, or we can have a developer present that. But for the sake of time, I'll quickly summarize the city staff's position. There is a request to have a discount for the culinary water impact fee, sewer slash wastewater impact fee, roads impact fee, parks impact fee, and stormwater impact fee, for various reasons. The city staff, fully endorses signing off on the roads impact fee sign off. The reason being in our fee schedule, we explicitly state that we recognize that the uses that we have in there aren't comprehensive, and we encourage developers to go in to the, ITE manual to find a use that better matches what they would like to develop, and they can present that to the city council to request a reduction. And so in reviewing their request, our city engineers agreed that that use they requested matches the use for the project, and it would be perfectly fine for them to get that reduction. However, the rest of the reductions they requested, the city staff could not sign off on those. And if you'd like, I can read through those and explain one by one, or we can open up to a bit a more discussion with the developer. However, the council would like to start this discussion. And we held off for them that they speak about a PFU

count. So I I think it would be good to inform the council council what all that is about. So would you like to come up and

Happy to. Thank you, mayor. Thank you, Marcus. My name is Tyler Howland. I am one of the developers of NET NETGE before. Honestly, we're we're primarily here based on a couple of reasons. One precedent that has been set that's been approved for adjoining property owners as far as impact fee reductions go. But two, also just a thorough review by ourselves and by our engineers of the city's studies that have gone into set setting and establishing your impact fees and the fact that they're primarily established for single family and multifamily development, not for this type of product. And and that is why we have gone through and requested the the reduction. There's only one, I believe, where we request the full waiver on Marcus, that was the parks. The rest are a reduction based on either plumbing fixture units, which actually was part of a bill that was that was pushed through the during the state legislative session. It didn't pass. So I I was a little bit early in requesting it under the those under that scenario, but we understand that this type of development impacts all city infrastructure. I'd probably argue with you. It may or may not impact your parks. But everything else, we understand that there's an impact. We just felt the impact is different than maybe a single family home or multifamily type development would impact that infrastructure. And therefore, we're asking for the reduction proportionally to what we believe our true impact on those services and and that infrastructure provides us directly.

Any questions I've been asked, though? So Or or questions I can answer? I'm gonna say on the trying to find it in your letter here. So you're talking about aligning PFU on this sewer wastewater council. I we don't have a comparison of what impact these are versus the reduction. I know part of that sewer is a firm fixed from Logan City. Yeah.

Right. And I so to clarify, for the water and wastewater, they had the same request. There wasn't an exact dollar figure, but there was a request for us to basically redo the math and maybe have a more extended conversation with the developer about the true impact. While we're open to that, we didn't want to do that without the city council, you know, permission. And our response to that point was when we develop the impact fee or assign the impact fee, sorry, to the building permit, we actually didn't even go off of our standard model. We asked Sunrise Engineering to pull the data from three existing facilities in North Logan and do a comparison and kind of a a trend. And then based on that, that's how we assign the impact fee to them. So we didn't even use, like, an exact Hyde Park City ERU. We try to look at exact data for facilities currently in operation. And so that was the city staff's reasoning for saying we don't endorse a reduction because we feel like our calculations were pretty exact already.

Marcus, do you recall what the reduction I presume it was a reduction from what we would normally have for an impact be versus what the Sunrise

study response was? I do not. The exact calculation was done several months ago, and that was determined by the city engineer and the public works director, and they gave us the numbers to put onto the building permit. I do know it was a reduction. I do not remember the scale.

K.

So the the numbers currently reflect a reduction from from our code

because we don't have something that actually reflects what's billed. Yeah. And and for full transparency, I don't know the scale. It might have been a dollar. It might have been a $100,000, probably closer to a dollar than a 100,000, let's be honest. But I know it was a reduction from what it would have been had we applied just the standard Hyde Park City ERU calculation.

And please know, my my request here for reduction is is this is not me trying to make a a simple money grab and reduce the cost of our of our project. This is a this is a very investment intense project, you know, as far as total project cost goes. We want to invest in the city. We want to see that infrastructure be able to be supported. Once we add this 120 bed skilled nursing facility here, these reductions were made just like Marcus mentioned. They utilize the city attorney in Sunrise Engineering. These reductions are being requested based on calculations by by our engineers. And so I'm wondering if there is a middle meeting ground where where we can negotiate between engineers and come up with something that we both feel is fair. And, Marcus, I appreciate you pointing that out because I didn't know that the city or the the engineer had had analyzed three facilities in North Logan to to impact fees. That that's helpful information, but I would be more than happy to have our engineers speak with the engineers of at Sunrise and and have that dialogue.

Yeah. So in my in my response letter, I'd it wasn't very specific, but, yeah, I pointed out that we did that calculation based on three facilities. So I I hope you guys got that message. I I probably skimmed over it. I was probably just so mad that you told the Nomar. I said it wasn't the best of luck. I shoulda I shoulda started with all data and then ended with no. Alright. You taught me something today.

So start with the positive. End with the nice. Sorry.

One of the things that I I think because of this locality and things like that, I I think the transportation one was something that we would think Marcus's letter addresses.

Yeah. Again, the city staff was was perfectly fine with the proposed reduction in transportation and road infrastructure because in the fee schedule, it states that we can use a different ITE number, which is from that's how we developed the whole impact fee was we looked at this Institute of Transportation Engineers manual, which is a nationwide thing. It's a group of people that have done countless studies on how much traffic is generated from different types of facilities, and they made this really handy dandy manual. And so what we did is we just based all of our impact fees on our ERU number and the number of trips generated. So we said approximately, your residential unit will generate this many trips. We calculate the fee based on that. But then per facility, they can come in and say, we're not gonna have that much traffic here because we're only gonna have a few visitors a day. And so the reduction they're requesting there, we said, yeah. Absolutely. That's appropriate.

And I guess all of these take into account a 120 beds. So so the reduction of transportation would be different for a 120 bed unit versus a 30 or 40 bed unit or a 200 bed unit.

Absolutely. It it's based on so ITE is the international transportation something. Institute of Transportation Engineers. Thank you. Institute of Transportation Engineers. We actually engaged one of our engineers was sales engineering. We engaged them to do a traffic study and to utilize the correct kind of number or code The the transaction number. Code from the manual that is put out every year to tell us how many cars or how much traffic will be generated by this facility, which that's that's standard, you know, operating procedure for us anyway is to understand how much traffic flow we're gonna have at a project. When I come back for the assisted living, for example, the assisted living facility will most likely have a higher traffic impact because at the assisted living, you have residents that are coming and going. The nursing facility, really, it's primarily employees coming, you know, residents or or or patients come once and they stay for the duration. They don't leave until they're they're departing either to home or to the assisted living across the street. Okay. And

then same, I presume, for for the water and wastewater, it's based on numbers of rooms, size of laundry, other administrative things.

And I guess Right. That to me makes sense to look at other nursing homes as a comparison because how else do you compare? So our city code is right. Our impact fees are generated a lot on single family uses, and that's how we generate our ERU number or equivalent residential unit. So in our water master plan, we we, the engineers who did it, did a lot of math and figured out approximately how much water one home in Hyde Park uses, and that's your ERU. And then the way they did it is it's broken down, and there's a multiplication factor you can do for different facilities and saying, yeah, if it's we get some kind of number from the engineer saying it's gonna be using this much water, then we can factor that by our ERU number to calculate the impact fee. Like we talked about before, this facility, there were some specific facilities in North Logan that we thought were more comparable and had better usage data. Mhmm. And so we calculated the impact fee based on those, not strictly based off of the Hyde Park ERU number.

So do you know what numbers you would have, like, on the on the PFU or,

like, sugar, wastewater? So I don't have that exact information in front of me, Mayer. And the reason being, it it kinda goes back to what I I just proposed, and that is I I would propose that we we come up with a a that fixture unit count, and we have that conversation and negotiation in coordination with both staff and Sunrise Engineering. Again, I am not up here to try to shove down a reduction in impact freeze down down the throat of the city council or to try to take away from this city something that that we're gonna be benefiting from. Right? Utah state code stipulates that these impact fees are charged based on the direct impact over a forward looking report or study that that Marcus and staff has the unfortunate, you know, job of doing on a regular basis. I'm just asking that we look at our exact impact and what that is from a from a perfect street unit, mayor. I can get that number from our engineer that provided me this data. I don't have it directly in front of me. Marcus, on the sewer

2 44, do we know how much of that is Logan's?

I don't believe the Logan's was a consideration in this letter. I did not include Logan.

So that does not include The field I do not believe so. Their portion. I would want to make sure of that because

If it does, then we'll have to take that out because you would have to negotiate with directly with Logan City to reduce their impact fee. Because by agreement,

because they treat the wastewater that we produce, they have a separate impact fee for their water treatment. You wanna do water? I believe that does include the Logan Wastewater fee, and that's that is an error on my part, Marcus, because you you were very clear to me initially that any any reduction by Logan wastewater would have to be requested of them directly.

Yeah. We kind of have a a we can get a bad deal on that if we give out sewer impact fees. But then if it's for the whole thing, then we end up getting way less. And Based Logan they'll they'll send us a bill for the full amount. So So we set separate that out. Does Logan's

city or does anybody else have a different water rate

for this type of facility? So I know that Logan City, for their wastewater treatment impact fee, they will do that on, like, an ERU basis as well. They'll look at the facility and and work with the developer and their engineers, come up with a number,

and that's how they create the impact fee for, like, a commercial type property. 20 rooms. Is that they're they counting a 120

ERU? Or I don't know how they do their ERU calculations. Go to some effect.

But that it would scale similarly. Like, if they have facility with 50 versus a 100, it would still be about double. And that that's why there was a push on the hill to to to change the code where these are calculated based on a plumbing fixture unit, which is a little more efficient way to calculate actual water and sewer usage over the ERU because, to Mark Wilson's point, cities and counties and the state, they do calculate that ERU differently from engineering company to engineering company.

Yeah. We're we are governed by a ERU number Yeah. When we have to account for water. Yep.

So Yep. I as a private developer, I I wish that the house bill five seventy would have passed. So hopefully next year.

Looking at what Marcus is saying currently, if we accept the road impact fee deduction. That equates to off of the newly engineered numbers of what you're seeing in the letter. That equates to about 16%. And and but that is taking that's inclusive of Logan's works. It would be a higher percentage because Logan's not gonna get affected. So council, it's to you to decide if you want us to negotiate further reduction based on analysis. We'll we'll compare what Sunrise has got, and we can compare what their engineering has and hopefully come back at a a real something that might be beneficial for both. So That's fair. What

if I could say one more thing, Mayor. No. Candidly Go ahead. Candidly, I I I don't want to go without saying extreme gratitude for first staff accepting our traffic study and realizing that our impact on roads isn't as significant and and suggesting that reduction to you. I I think it's there there's really two big questions here. Right? One is, is council okay with us negotiating what that plumbing fixture unit count is with Sunrise Engineering and determining if these impact fees are correct? The other, though, and and where I probably would push a little bit harder is on the parks impact because I'm pretty much requesting a full waiver, which staff declined. I would probably stand up here and debate that one a little bit longer directly with you just because I believe our impact on those parks are are minimal, if if not zero. And and so, really, those are the two things to consider in my mind. Well, you obviously have to approve what staff has already suggested or proposed on the on the the roads impact. But whether we can negotiate via PFUs with the engineer, because I don't have a specific number or reduction I'm asking for tonight. I'm just is that an opportunity or an option? And then two, what is the true impact on the parks here? Right? Because the purpose of an impact fee is to to, you know, kinda pay a net present value for what that impact is going to be on those parks over the next however many years. And I just I don't see it being similar to a single family home or or multifamily. That's all I had to say, though. Sorry, mayor. You're good.

She's messing with you.

Mayor, would you like me to at least explain the staff's position? Sure. You can agree with it or disagree with it. So when we review this with the DRC, you can pretty much just read it here. We said, yeah, it's true that a lot of patients aren't gonna be utilizing the park, but the argument is this facility is still going to attract traffic to the parks. You're gonna have people who are out. I mean, there's gonna be a trail across the street they're gonna be using. We're looking at putting a park really close by. You may have visitors who come and visit and still visit the public facilities. So from our point of view, where it's a per unit impact fee, it's a little bit you know, like, yeah, just you're coming to the city. You're gonna generate some level of traffic to the parks. And if you want, we can, you know, have the turn attorneys debate it. I'm sure they're much more eloquent than I am about it. But that's just the city staff's position as you felt like, yeah, you're granted, the majority of the users of the facilities aren't gonna be out running to the parks. The assisted living fest. But we're still gonna see an impact to our parks and public recreation areas.

So notwithstanding the PFUs and that And council, keep in mind on the impact fee reduction. Although it's laid out in the letter different things, you get to decide where it's reduced. So maybe, you know, they're they're looking at a total sum of impact fees. And if you want a little here, a little there, that's your decision. The net sum of notwithstanding PFUs would be about an additional 15%. If you take what they're stating in parks and stormwater.

And, again, yeah, the stormwater the city staff disagreed with that because our master plan already took into account each property developing an individual stormwater facility, and so it was based on the acreage. And so that's why we don't recommend granting that reduction.

But Well and and that could be spread out. What they're talking about out of this sum is about 31% reduction. If we were to prove everything Notwithstanding whatever the PFU Okay. Is. But if you want to say the even though we're saying a full reduction in parts, you could spread that reduction. What they're asking for is that total amount. You could say we can disperse that over water and here.

So Not really. Well,

we can because we can respond back to them Well and tell them where we are reducing.

Right. But we have to tie that back to a reason. But you say we have to justify it. For example, the neighboring parcel that you talked about, we there was an impact fee reduction granted to a neighboring parcel. It's long story short, it's not gonna happen because the project's not happening. But the impact fee reduction was based on certain factors, mostly around the at the time, the city did not have a multifamily impact fees, and so there was a blanket reduction because being a multifamily unit affected every aspect of the impact fee. However, in this case, the reductions are tied to specific reasoning and specific aspects of the project, and so the city council couldn't grant a blanket waiver like they did with the other project because it's tied back to specific aspects. And the other thing to note is with that other project, the council did put a big asterisk next to that waiver, and the big asterisk was we don't have a multifamily impact fee. And now because we've granted this, we're gonna create a multifamily impact fee tier so we're not doing this again. So I would just throw out there, if we're gonna grant some sort of impact fee reduction, the council needs to be prepared to grant that for future projects of similar use because that would not be fair to grant it for one project and then not grant it for another service. So we actually create an impact fee for this

type of unit. Well, the the nice thing is is right now, there's a moratorium in this state. For example. Nursing homes. So there won't be any others built unless one shuts down in the county. But you never know when that moratorium is gonna get into that market. So

I mean, I'm generally it would be okay on the culinary and wastewater to have the city staff and Sunrise Engineering work with is it Hales Engineering?

Hales did our traffic. So all those on it would be our civil engineer. Your civil engineer for the

my only question there is, where would your civil engineer bring their data from or their information? Because I'd say, well, civil engineer, did you bother to check the three units in, you know, the three skilled nursing in in North Logan and see what theirs is because that's what we did. Yeah. You know, I don't know how you get much better than what we already have. That would be the discussion we have. We where where are they basing on? What type

things like that. So And I think it's a little different. And and at one point, you know, Marcus made a great suggestion, and this is back when we first started talking about this over a year ago. Right? It was, hey. Show us what you've paid in other cities. But the problem is other cities calculate their impact fees differently. And they they calculate and come up with these ERUs and how those are used to calculate the impact fees because every city, again, goes through the same process. They they prepare a study for future infrastructure projects from parks to roads to sewer to stormwater, and then state Utah state code says, okay. You need to take a net present value of those, and then you can charge projects for those. And so what staff did was was what Marcus originally had me do, which was go look at adjoining cities, not just where we have developed, but cities that have other nursing homes, they were just all over the board. And so that's why I was such an advocate actually of of house bill five seventy is it went down to plumbing fixture unit. It's this is how many plumbing fixtures we have, not because to your point, councilman is it Fowles or Fowles. Yeah. Make sure I pronounce it correctly. Councilman Fowles, it it's not some arbitrary calculation of an ERU based on whatever, you know, international code that they subscribe to. It's these are the plumbing fixture units, and this is how we're going to calculate our actual usage. I might be shooting myself in the foot. We may calculate this, and we may be coming back going, we owe you guys more money. I'm willing to take that risk because, again, I'm not I'm not looking to hamstring the city's future budget and future capital expenses on these infrastructure projects by asking for a reduction now. I'm just asking to pay our fair share, and and our fair share may be more. It very well could come back to backfire on me on those two items.

Lior? Sure. One of one of the con I mean, I understand that that, you know, we've got all these impact fees, but I have a problem with what we just take a percentage because some of those definitely will impact us. And and I think the builder or whatever has sort of responsibility there. But maybe each one of them needs to be looked at because I could I could argue, you know, just looking at it, you might not use the parks as much as something else, but you're gonna use water. Yes. We've gotta maintain that. The the sewer, we've gotta do. Roads are I mean, there's always arguments that we, I think, have to look at, and we have to look at them individually. I I will not I do not support a a blanket whatever. I mean, this and here's you know, if it's 50% or whatever, it might work for that particular category that that some of those, maybe you're you don't deserve that because you are gonna use those or they're gonna impact us as a city, and we will have to maintain that.

Councilman Brouwer, I agree with you, and that's why my table breaks it down by item rather than and and I I respect what what mayor Cox is trying to accomplish

from a just a a kind of a pragmatic let's get this done. Well, I'm thinking the line items in my head of what they are. I'm just thinking what the tool Totally respect

that. I came in line item by line item simply because of what you just said, council member, and that is we do have an impact on these items. Right? We we could debate until we're blue in the face on whether we have an impact on the parks. But, again, we are coming into your city. We're taking advantage of your infrastructure, and I will not dispute that we are having an impact on all of that. Are we having as large of an impact as your future looking study says that a single family home or a multifamily development has? I would say no, and that's why I am asking for the reduction. And I'm not just asking these aren't just numbers that I pulled out of thin air. Right? These are numbers that are backed up by data from our engineers to say, hey. This is what type of impact you are having on those line items, Tyler. This is what you should request as far as a reduction goes. So don't disagree with you at all.

Yeah. I think it's tough to start that because any builder or anybody, they can come up with an argument of, you know, to be fair, I I need I need this reduced. I mean, I think we have to be really cautious of being fair with everybody.

I I think with the growth of I think with the growth of Hyde Park City, it would be in the city's interests to potentially solicit a study on commercial development impact fees. And, again, the nursing home, it it it kind of fits in this gray area, right, between commercial and residential. Most cities can consider it some type of a commercial use just because of the health care component and the short term stay for most. But I totally understand where you're coming from, and and if if there's a way that we can word it so that you don't have to be concerned about future developers asking for the same. I don't think it'll be on a nursing home that they'll be asking it for, but on a commercial development, I can totally see your concern.

So, Kurt, you're right. The impact fees are not are not location specific. Right. They're whether you live right on the border or you live up on the foothills, impact fees are are the same. So and I I like the idea of a commercial impact fee. So, counsel, do you the the only one that really has had analysis from staff is the impact fee. Are you only willing to have us go forward and do that analysis and then bring it back to you. And then the other part would be you're wanting to move forward. We are.

We are. And to clarify, Mayor, so we did analysis on the parks and the stormwater as well. But the water and the wastewater, the letter just specified that they would like to present data and have that discussion. It didn't offer a specific dollar amount. So the city staff, our recommendation, you could probably boil it down to we think the data's fine. If the council wants us to do that, great. We can figure that out. But as far as roads, parks, and stormwater, we stand by the recommendation to approve roads and not approve the parks and stormwater.

And I I can understand some of the park, but we had the developer present a development across the street from you that would build a other two acre park and of which maybe not the residents, but the visitors might or employees, you know, might go for a place for luncheons. But you're right. It would be small. They're not gonna come out here and play pickleball. This is They're They're not allowed to leave. No. No. You're no. You're Clariant, Phil. But

I will say, and and I haven't spoken to to my partners. I if we're rejected on the stormwater impact fee reduction, I don't know that I'm gonna have lot of heartburn speaking honest and candid. I I appreciate Marcus pointing out that the study that Citi did do was an assumption that that private developers and private landowners were going to install detention and or retention systems on their property, and that took into account the impact fees as calculated. Totally understand that. If we were gonna spend time on anything, it would be I feel like there's a reduction owed on the parks impact fee. And then if we can have a conversation with engineering on what on on water and sewer wastewater, that would be ideal.

I've got a question to test Marcus' knowledge and memory here. Here we go. What are our parks impact fees are based on what? Remind me.

So in our capital facilities plan for parks, that was done with the 2021 study. And what it did is it outlined the major parks already in existence in the city, and it outlined a couple of key upgrades that could be done as well as saving a nice nest egg to purchase a future park. I don't have all the details in front of me K. But that that's in a nutshell what the impact fees we're saving for. And then we take that, whatever that gross number was,

And how do we then come up with an actual amount fee amount for each

project that's being built or home that's being built? So our parks impact fee is one of the older ones. Like, our water impact fee, wastewater impact fee, roads, stormwater have all been updated, since I've been with the city, and we've tried to update them to include new ERU calculations, new methods of calculation like the roads, and the stormwater are brand new formats for the city. We feel like they're pretty they're very equitable because they're all based on the size or the use of the development. The parks is an older one, and all of all all of our old impact fees were per unit number. And so we just assigned and said, yeah. For every door,

you get assigned to this much per unit. So if you build a 5,000 square foot home on a one acre lot or you build a 800 square foot home in a PUD, you pay the same amount. Is that what I'm hearing? That's how it's structured. That's correct. So are they paying the impact fee times a 120 because there's a 120 rooms in?

I don't believe so because the impact fee is something like 12 or $1,500 per door. And so if they were paying per 120, that'd be way higher. Yeah.

So I'm wondering, I guess, how we came up within the number that that exists for that. And, again I I know that's remember. I do not remember. I expect you to remember a lot of the year.

Yeah. Because we did a you know, this facility is a special case. And when we did these impact fees, we we did some math. We didn't we knew that this would become an issue. We knew they were looking for a discount, and so we did some math. I do not remember how we did the parks impact fee because you're right. If we did a per door, that fee would be, like, $200,000.

Yeah. I I just like to say something. Sure. I think that, you know, these the developers came in and and pointed out this issue, and I think the staff has taken that to our engineers, and they've considered all of these. And, I mean, sure, you guys would like less impact fees, but I think they've done their due diligence, and I support their decision to what they come up with. So Yes.

And I appreciate that, Councilman Osborne. Remember to the state mandate. Right? State code stipulates that you cannot charge more than the actual impact by a project or a development on city infrastructure. And so I I've probably framed this wrong in my letter, and and that's how it's looked at as a, hey. We want a reduction in fees. We wanna pay less. That is that is not what it is. That is we want to pay what state law stipulates we should, which is you can only charge the development based on what their actual impact is on that's on those city infrastructure items. And and totally understand supporting your staff and your engineers too. I'd like the opportunity to discuss how those calculations were made with the engineers, at least on the water and and and the wastewater.

So was there a motion in there at all, Harold, or just a statement? I was just stating kinda how I felt. I mean We don't know what a PFU

means in I was interjecting his motion.

I I mean, as far as the wastewater goes, it seems like you're gonna have a lot of asphalt, and, I mean, you're not gonna be able to have much of it soak into the ground there. It's just gonna impact our system. And so Still build with the design

of rocks and water?

We haven't been around for some of our attentions. No.

It's kind of the entryway where it's not Yep. We have a yes. On both sides. On both sides. We've tried

to detain as much as we can above ground.

Mayor, perhaps it'd be helpful since the letter was presented and requested kind of piece by piece. Maybe it would be helpful for the city council to kind of discuss piece by piece if you are in support or not in support of the reduction for those pieces. Like I said, the city staff has fully investigated the roads, parks, and stormwater, and that has been determined. But since no data was provided for the water and wastewater analysis, we haven't actually done an analysis on those two points yet. Although, as I mentioned several times already, we feel like the analysis that have already has already been done is sufficient. And so maybe I can just make that suggestion. What if we just go through each of these pieces and say, would the council support this reduction or investigation of reduction? Yes or no.

That would be a great idea. So based on staff's recommendation, would you support the reduction on the road impact fee? It's $9.90 something. If if you do or you don't, I I would look for a motion on that one.

Are we making motion per items, or are we just discussing each item? I I can't hear you. We're making motion per item, or we're just discussing each item? On on

each item. Make a motion for and I was taking road to start with because that's a

Yeah. I I move that we go ahead and and we approve this agree approve the modified or requested lower transportation impact fee as requested and as recommended by the city staff. In in

item four on their letter?

Yeah. I'm trying to look at both the response letter and their letter. So the This would be on item two on the letter. Right. Road slash transportation, that reduction that they they requested per the engineering report.

So we've got a motion to approve the reduction on the transportation road impact fee. I would second that. That'd be a good sign. From Tiffany. Any more discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay? The next item, let's let's take parks. They've asked for a full waiver, and the staff has said they would recommend not the full waiver or not a reduction. So

I am personally not in favor of a full reduction of park impact fees given your project probably will use less, your development, but I don't think like, what if one of your nurses brings their dog to work every day in their car all day? Because I have tenants that do that. Yeah. And and they go walk through our park. I'm I don't see zero impact on the parks. It's just my opinion, but I'm open to discussion about it. Yes, sir. But I'm not in favor of zero. No.

They're open for that discussion.

And I agree with Tiffany, and I would go back to there's already apparently a reduction that's been done here based on the, what, 1,400.

What what's the I would need to go back But somewhere in that. There's a spreadsheet Yeah. Somewhere because I I worked on it. I remember looking at it. Somewhere, there's a spreadsheet that explains how we did all this math. Right. I do need to find that and provide that for the council because that will explain the parks. Because I did I pulled up our impact fees for parks, and we would be at 1,612 Per ERU. Per but it's a per ERU. Okay. That's I don't know what an ERU is for parks because in the master plan, it just says per unit. So I gotta go to find that. So what it That information would be helpful.

So we we we certainly know that the numbers there times a 120 rooms doesn't equal what the numbers here. So you've done some sort of reduction.

Yes. There was some sort of reduction. And doing my calculator math. I can't figure it out what it is just Yeah. Here. So I need to go find that spreadsheet.

Because based on the fact that it's it's gonna be going to be visitors and or employees, the only ones that would use our parks. And right now, we don't have any parks in that vicinity. We hope to have a park across the street. There's a trail across the street. Right? There's a trail across the street for afternoon or, you know, lunchtime walking, so forth and so on. But I would still think the the impacts of however how many employees do you remember?

I I gave you that number, and I can't remember now. In the in the dozens?

In the dozens somewhere? Yeah. Not in the hundreds, of course, but in the dozens that there's gonna be an impact. But, you know, it's not like a family of five or eight that's got kids on playgrounds and people playing pickleball every morning or afternoon or evening. I mean, it's I agree there's an impact, but minimal. I I would think it's probably even less than whatever the number you came up with. So, again, I'd be curious to know how you came up with that and say, well, let's let's look at those calculations

and maybe adjust even even more, but it did something. I'll just say, I think Marcus has always tried to be mindful as we've gone through this, as we've grown, and we've tried to transition. So I would wanna know what you're

what you were thinking when we were Yeah. We calculated these a while ago. Sorry. I'm sorry. I don't remember that off the top of my head. But perhaps an appropriate motion would be to table this until the next meeting, and then we can get some data from them. We can find the spreadsheet. We would have an opinion from the city attorney Make some discussion. And have some discussion on that.

To the party? No. From the council. So we've heard from a couple, but if they Oh. Anybody else have strong Just I don't remember how much the park equipment costs It's expensive.

That they're not gonna use. I mean, I'm I'm as big an advocate of anybody up here for parks. I mean, I'm not, you know, always, like Well, at least Yeah. Let's get some park stuff going, and let's spend some money and build some parks. But Right. I wanna be

But again, the impact fee isn't to isn't to take care of what we have now. It's saying that But the the growth that we're having is going to put a strain on the existing facilities. And so the impact fees used to upgrade those facilities to handle the additional capacity or purchase new facilities in the case of the parks.

We really don't Yeah. Pay based on I'm not gonna use that because Ben and I would argue, I haven't been on a swing set in years. It's So It is. So and I'm You should. Fine. So

It it it goes back to councilman Powell's comment. Right? Well You pay the same fee as for a single family home. Right?

You still know what a single family home is in your development? There's none. So

Oh, so problem then. So And I've got all the trust in the world and Marcus and the staff to do the right thing and because I've experienced that working with them. But I'm still curious. I so I would move that we table this particular

Okay. Continue.

Sorry. Continue is the right. Continue. Continue. Continue. Sorry. Yeah. That's right. To continue the discussion prior to making a decision on the parks fee production. That.

Got a motion to continue the parks from from Dave. Just a second. Quick clarification.

Is there a specific date you would like this back on the agenda? Council meeting. Yes. By the next council meeting. Thank you.

I'm not didn't have a professional kick.

So No. We are breaking ground very soon. So we the urgency. We really do. Well, I think

do impact p fees have to be paid before groundbreaking?

They're paid as part of the building permit. And so, hopefully, they're not building their building without a building permit.

I'll know every morning I drive by. I understand. Okay. So I got motion and a second. Any more discussion? All those in favor of continuing to our next council meeting, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay? Alright. The next one is stormwater. This one, you wanna explain the 50%, Marcus,

on the credit? Well, yeah, that's what they're requesting. And, essentially, the request was we are the developers are building an on-site well, on-site stormwater retention facility, and so they felt that that should give them a credit. Now the the only issue with that is it's solid thinking. But when we built the study, that was already kind of incorporated into the numbers. Because it's a state requirement, everybody's gotta retain their stormwater. Our fee was developed under the assumption that every project would be following the state requirement to retain their stormwater. And our stormwater impact fee is one that we're pretty excited about. It's a pretty unique way of looking at it across the state. We do it based on acreage of the parcel rather than, like, an ERU number because the way the study would built it out as they said, every development is gonna create a certain level of impervious area. So on average, every development that gets built, you create that impervious area that you're creating stormwater discharge, and so that's how the fee was calculated. It wasn't just a, yeah, $20 because you have been you know, you've got 10 apartments, 20 apartments. If they're all in the same size of building, it doesn't matter. It's gonna generate the same amount of stormwater runoff, and so that's why that study was built around an acreage based proposal.

So so who recommends a 50%?

That's the request. The city staff's recommendation was to not approve that reduction because it was already accounted for in our master planning.

I feel like that's solid thinking on behalf of our city staff, and I would be inclined to follow the recommendation.

Me also.

I'm actually inclined to withdraw that request on the stormwater. I was unaware of that that that had been calculated, and so I don't think of I play my cards. You see my whole hand. Like, I I'm not a good poker player. I'm really not. Just let them make the motion. Make the motion. Go ahead. Move. Reject me. I'm gonna be okay. Move. Do we allow you to

move do we allow you to strike that from the That's right. The record?

Move to reject as stormwater reduction.

Oh. So that You got it. I make a I make a motion. Can't confirm he's not gonna borrow.

Vote. So was that was that Yeah. I don't know. I'll go ahead and move that we Second. We do not

Move those stormwater. Approve any kind of stormwater reduction. Okay. Motion from Dave to not approve stormwater reduction and a second from Tiffany. More discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay? Although Marcus has this in one, Let's tackle water first because he's got water and wastewater.

They kinda go hand in hand. They do. Their their request is really the same. Got it. Right. Their request is really the same because what they wanna do is look at the plumbing fixture unit number and then use that to come up with the ERU to calculate both impact fees. Sent through using the PFU for both of them. And that was the logic behind the bill is they basically said, what uses water in the house? Oh, plumbing fixtures. And so in theory, when you turn on the sink, you get specific amount of water out, and then most of that water should go back into the system into your wastewater, and that's what creates your ERU numbers. That was the logic behind the bill. It created too many problems imposing it statewide, but the logic isn't necessarily bad on its head, like, on its face.

So with that being, see, a few consideration, council, how would you like to move forward with water and wastewater? You can say hold hold it the way it is, or we can continue it to our next meeting with receiving some analysis between Sunrise staff and and their engineering staff.

I'm inclined to hold it the way it is. I feel like nursing homes do use a lot of water, laundry, cleanup, serving food Yeah. Dishes. So

Are you looking for a motion on something? I was gonna say, we tried to apply our best guess at similar facilities in the area. Like, not our best guess, but they took the data, I guess. And

Yeah. Again, the staff report, we feel like it was based on real data. Maybe we didn't use, like, a plumbing fixture count, but we just used data from existing facilities.

So I'll make the motion that we hold the culinary water and wastewater at the at the staff's recommendations.

Got a motion from Stephanie to hold the water and wastewater impact fees at the adjusted impact fee analysis that was presented by staff. Is there a second? I'll second. A second from Curtin. Any more discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay? So as I understand it, we have the parks parks one to assess and get back with the council on our next meeting.

K. And then the the road reduction was approved, and the other two were denied. Okay. Yes.

Alright.

Thank you. Road reduction was approved. Mhmm. Stormwater denied. Yep. And then three table.

No. The the water and wastewater were also denied.

Oh, I thought we continued those.

Stormwater? No. Water and wastewater? They they were together. The they just they just approved keeping them the way they are. K. K.

So, yeah, get us your get us your data and any analysis you want for parks, and then we'll get that off to our attorney and to anybody else who needs to see it. And we'll we will do our absolute best to have something ready to vote on by the next council meeting. Thank you. Appreciate it. Hey. Thank you. Thanks. Thanks, Simon.

The next item I gotta pull up. Right? That's not it. I'll get back to my agenda. The next item is service part project.

So, counsel, you probably remember at our budget meeting, there was a lot of talk about service, and I just wanted to put this on the next agenda to keep that discussion going because you asked me to. And I also wanna know, there's another item that was supposed to be on the agenda that that for some reason is not on the agenda. Right. You Oh, we Marcus said I could talk about it during department. Trails. Yeah. It was trailers. And there's also something else. So if the council wants to give me, like, if no. Fifteen minutes less than fifteen minutes. I can do it in five. I'll do it in five. To discuss another item that's not on the agenda, I would love to do that before we go home.

So on service, I think we're wanting to collect potential projects and how we would tackle that versus every month or have a day of service. Mhmm. So that was how would you want to do this, counsel?

I personally feel like designated days of service get more attention than routine, you know, happening every other week or every week because just because people are busy or specific projects. If we wanna see specific projects, then we may do a big push and a big outreach to the community to get people involved and have it on a designated date. I think I'll I think that's maybe a more likely way for us to get a better turnout. What do you guys think?

I would to do I agree with you. I would think some Saturday in May before school's out when people take vacations in June and gone, and then it's too hot. And so

I I would recommend early May. Families get really busy with graduation at end of the year True. And they won't show up at the May.

Yeah.

That's a good point. And I think maybe even having a yearly, like this is something we as a city do every year. Like, we're gonna work on whatever project on this weekend in May, and we do a big push leading up to it. This is what we wanna do. We need your help. It'll make our community great. You know? Be early in May. May 2 is the first one.

Can we be organized with projects by then?

I don't What do you need from me to get service projects organized? It's like, we talked about at the workshop. Our public works is a little hesitant to have, you know, something that requires skills or a lot of work just in case people don't show up, and then they're left with something they have to do themselves on the next day. Are there things that you all have in mind right now that you wanna talk about, or do you want me to meet with Jed and talk about the parks and see if we can do, like, a trash cleanup somewhere? Or

I think I don't you need from me? Probably all of you. I think if you could keep don't feel, like, pressured to create this, but we give you list of items.

Yep. We talked about doing that. Projects. Right? And then

I think you being the contact source and and telling us if we're getting in too deep or not is helpful. But, like, the community garden we're working on that I'm hoping we get a grant for, I'm hoping to have service day to build garden boxes.

You know? Remind me where those will be.

West of the tennis courts. Just the longer Okay. Parking strip, and they'll look nice. I mean, the plan that I made our budget off of, it's a four by four square raised garden bed, so it's easy for all ability levels to access and and what kind of material will it We'll do a outdoor treated Plastic. Wood

or So obviously

I didn't know. We did our our the budget that I submitted was us building them out of a pretreated wood, but I didn't know if it as I was looking, there are cheaper, like, metal options, and I'd but it depends on what look the city council wants out there. I didn't know if we could switch it out after we submitted the grant and the budget. So You probably just have to ask them. I doubt they're gonna carry the material. That's what I thought. Probably the biggest thing is just to have a garden. Yeah. And that it's rate. It's part of it, AARP is sponsoring the the grant. So I talked about our front porch group and and their interest in gardening and that those things might tie together anyways.

The the treated wood is great, but it doesn't last long term. Right.

That's why I was wondering starts to bulge too. Yeah. That's why I was wondering, should we do metal? The they have, like, one and a half foot tall metal. David metal. Yeah. Yeah. If you guys like that look. Anyways, we can talk about that as we get if we get the grant to do it. But When will you hear back on the grant? End of the month. They said by the end of this month. Well, that's fast. So hopefully soon.

When you hear back, will you just let me know, and we can schedule for, like, a little walk through with you, and you can show us your plans and what you're envisioning. We got tons of extra dirt down at the shop if we need to build that up a little bit. We just need to get that on the ParkSky schedules because right now, we're trying to open all the parks way sooner than we normally do.

So That's awesome. We'll coordinate because I also wanna do a big volunteer push to make it happen. Uh-huh. So and we have a anyways, this is I won't go into the depth of the weeds, but we have someone that is willing to head up that program. This is right. Yeah. And and I did notice our

small Yeah. $20. Lower playground at Frog Pond Park has new wood chips in it. Mhmm. So hard. Like I said, I'm glad I said something about it in our meeting last week because apparently it got passed on, and it looked really nice this morning.

Yeah. Like, we've got we've never had people come into the office before since I've been here and ask when are we opening the the parts. In this past week, we've had, like, six people come to the office and say, can I go play pickleball? Can I put a net up? And we're like, we're not ready. Usually, we're still battling snowstorms this time of year. Yeah. So we're going as fast as we can to get all those parks reopened, but it's we're still probably not gonna have everything opened until April

and, like, mid April. How many people have used the parks? All

all winter long? We been out Some people take in the gates on our sport courts out here, so we had to chain them up because they're out there making a mess of things.

Let's send potential projects to Marcus, and he can type Italian or send them to me, and I'll put them in a Google in a doc and put it in a box.

We can we can I'm wondering if we can incorporate that into our new software as well. We can And then I'm gonna and this out and Looks if we target

May 2

I like May 2 because I will be out of town the following weeks. So let's see if we can you'll be out of town May 2? No. I'll be here on May 2. I wanna be far I wanna be here. I'll be here May 2. I won't be here the following two Saturdays. So There we go. Let's go with May '2. I mean, not that you have to do it for me, but I'll throw that one out. There's A lot of families will be in your same boat, so I think that's Yeah. Sooner than later.

Let's go around. I'm sorry. Kurt, do you have anything? Nope. Daryl?

I I I wanna just clarify this. I wanna make sure I understand what we did tonight.

Little late. We were approved.

We're already reduced. Correct? Correct. Yep. Yep. Okay. That's that's why I voted. And I just wanted to make I mean and and and the developer, he knew that, didn't he?

Yes and no. Yeah. The one that we got approved with the traffic, that was their request to have that reduced. The other ones, sounds like maybe he didn't read my full staff response where we did explain that there were already some reduction built in. But, yeah, we had tried to build in some reductions already because at the time they brought that forward and we're applying for their building permit, we didn't have a lot of these impact fees figured out yet. And so we tried to do already tried to do based on usage real data rather than just the per door counts.

That document that you should have had it must be on your computer. It's not in city any city council or service or That's right. Health development.

Oh, it's it's an attachment to the letter. So if you go to the letter one that you said

preview that you said you previously

calculated, was it based on all of our old Oh, the the spreadsheet I'm making? Oh. Yeah. That was one that Susan so when Susan worked here, she was in charge of assigning the impact fees to the building permits. Because back in the day, it was all per door, and Hyde Park just had a bunch of residential, so she could really easily just put that in. I'm just saying it's probably on your computer. It's not Yeah. So it's somewhere in the staff files because I remember sitting down with Brett and Scott and Susan and me and doing math for, like, an entire week as we pulled this data, found these numbers, and tried to do what we thought was most equitable for their site.

K.

Sure. I guess the one thing I just want to bring up is I kinda when he suggested we do a commercial impact schedule or whatever, is that something? Study on the impact fee? Just like creating a impact fee for commercial properties.

I don't really agree with what he said because every single one of our studies, we've done it on the ERU in the ERU format because you can take that and apply it back to a commercial property based on their usage numbers. So they can go and do a little engineering analysis and say, yeah. We're gonna use this much water. Right. And then we just take our ERU number So okay. And multiply by the usage number.

But but there are things, like, potentially parks, things like that, but

that's based on acreage. Yeah. And remember, our parks impact fee is the last one that we have not updated with our new enlightenment and understanding of how impact fees work, and that's gonna be part of our

study that we're hoping to get that grant for. For example, one business is coming. Think Save will have an an ERU equivalent in their analysis was, like, four houses. So that's what the impact would be for water would be on, and then the output of that would be base.

Yeah. And doing a commercial specific study would just be the same process to do residential one k. But you would just exclude all the residential properties and just do a calculation Yeah. Based on

Well, there there's the commercial. And so really, it's just the same process. Something like Sports Academy or hotel, which would be similar to what we're dealing with right now. So I'm wondering if there's different impact fees based on that on on those kind of businesses. That would be I I guess it just depends on how much money you wanna spend on a engineering analysis for impact. Yes. Because because we can't implement one without a study. Yeah. Yeah. So that study might cost us $60,000 to gain,

you know, 8. And the ERU method is also tried and true across the state. It's it's been litigated a few times.

So it's just a pretty bulletproof method of calculating those impact fees across different use types. Yeah. It seems to me commercial could be so wide ranging from the warehouse where a couple of guys hang out during the day to some other facility that has a 100 employees all day long,

you know, watching this or doing that. So I don't know. Right. Commercial is so broad that I don't know that doing a study is gonna And the ERU is really fair that way because then if you have a warehouse with a single bathroom like, for example, one of these pallet factories we have where they got one bathroom, they come in, do their job, use the bathroom a few times a day, go home. They're, like, a quarter of an ERU. Yeah. And then you've got yeah. If we had an indoor pool where they were constantly or a car wash where they're constantly Right. Dumping water down the drain, they're gonna be, like, you know, however many scores of ERUs they are. So it's a pretty fair system. Yeah. But next time we update those impact fee analyses, yeah, you can have whatever level of whatever level of analysis we can afford.

Well, it sounds like. Got it. I mean, just got it. Thank

you. Tiffany, you got it now?

I don't know if you all saw the email I sent out today. There's there's a lot there. So I will give you a short rundown, and I apologize for forwarding the email with the maps, but I have to send my emails from my phone so it's not easy for me to send attachment. Like, a anyways, without downloading them oh, my phone is a mess anyways. But Neil Ethington has met with the mayor and I previously quite a few times about potential mountain bike trails, and he met with Gerald and I just about a week, two weeks ago? Couple weeks ago. Couple weeks ago. And he has proposed and marked a trail that ties into Sheridan's Trail that you could also hike one direction up to the top of the hill, and we'll have, like, an overlook of the city. And then the downhill side on the other side would be strictly for mountain biking. Those maps are in there. And then he's proposing fixing the trail on the north side of the canyon that runs there's just a couple spots that need to be fixed and then a kiddie loop that would be, like, for children to ride down lower below the water tank. We had talked about looking at grants to build those trails. We got a few quotes. They were between 38,000 and, like, $68,000 to actually do that. But there is a group from the state called Utah Trail Crew that does just that. They come in and they build trails. They're qualified to build trails. They're they know how to do it, and they do it for free. And he got a meeting with them, and they said that they would like to take this project on, and they would do it for free. The only thing they weren't sure that they could a 100% execute would be the kiddie trail below because they would need some heavier equipment that they don't have right at this time, but they thought they will help us get it as much done as we can. What would be required of the city is nothing financial, but it does require a letter of permission allowing them to work on the trail. And they have a open slot on June 8 through the twelfth, I think, is the email. Anyways, so that they could be here for four days dedicated to working on that trail, and they believe they can complete a majority of that hiking and biking trail in that time. Wow. And they have committed to come back before October to finish anything that's outstanding. So it's free work. It's building our trails. It's building on our Healthy Utah designation goals that we set. And but the only thing we can't do that I didn't know until today is we can't use it, like, for a a matching kind if we apply for a grant to do any further work on that trail because it is a state. Okay. What's the right word? It's already state entity. State entity. That's the word I'm looking at. All the UR grants, you can't match state with state for all those. And so that would be competing, but it would be free. And we could implement the trail. It could be used this summer by our community, and it would be hiking and biking. Biking on the way down. Hiking on and biking on the way up. Cool. And tie into the shared aim, which ties into Bonneville Short Line. Council, it sounds like it's within our cost structure. Yeah. We don't we don't have to commit any funds. I was excited. Came out with them today

and called me. And the diagram you sent, there was a green outline. I'm just looking at the GIS. It appears it's pretty close to our

property line, but but it we have confirmed it. It's It's Okay. Yep. That'd be my only question. Otherwise It sounds like what we need to do. So there's, like, how many days will they be here? They will be here from the eighth to the twelfth, and then they said they will come back because they're booked out. Like, they have projects booked out, but they have that week open. And so he tentatively said, yes. We want it, but we have to provide them with the letter. And then they will come back if they have openings before October to

initiate anything on the I wonder I don't know if this would work out, but could we

use some of our city equipment employees for a few days out there that work on that Canyon Trail? It depends. If we get them scheduled now, we probably can make that happen. But, also, it depends on what they need. If if they just need a mini x, we got a mini x. If they need a bulldozer, we don't have a bulldozer. We have the big loader

down there. Right?

Yeah.

Low entry. It's it's a piece of metal.

That's what I think we have works great usually.

But I'm wondering I mean, other volunteers in the city. Would you I mean, would they would they want other labor, or do they have their work crew? Because I think they they have a I will ask. Okay. But I think they want they have a way of, like, executing, and they've built trail. Like, that's what they're gonna do. And and sometimes volunteers are great, but sometimes volunteers Kinda get in the way. And get in the way. So I'm wondering even if

if when they're here, we have a couple of our people and equipment available to kinda

do the big things they need, and then when they come back in October, they can finish it. Finish it. Because then we could complete the entire project. Yeah. So I can I'll ask about volunteers and all that stuff, the big equipment, and if that's something that the city wants to give their time to. I'm good. But I just thought, let's take at least what's free

and get it done. So would you need we need to put that on next week's next agenda?

Yeah. Live as a council, and the mayor's signed up later? I think that's what we need to do is we'll we'll draft some kind of letter. If they have a template or something they need us to use because it's a state program, have them send that to me. Set if we need specific wording to reach out to. Yeah. And then I can have if there's some kind of legalese in there we need the attorney to review, I can see if he can do a review. And then on the next council State template. I'm sure it's gone through the legal. Right. That's what I mean. But if they're just like, yeah. Write one up, then we we may have to sure they figure something out. If they haven't.

They don't have a template. Tell them to send us somewhere I think.

But Yeah. Yeah. Then on the next council agenda, we can have an actual action item. So it's for the record, and we've noted that we approved this. I'm sorry. It's, like, last night. It's kind of rushed, but it just worked out that they had an opening. And they came up today and looked at the project, and they're excited. They wanna make it happen for us.

Sounds great. Great. They do. Well, Neil

Neil gets most of the credit. Yeah. Neil's worked hard. He wants to see it happen. So Neil's been trying to get us to build that trail for a long time. He has for years. So

Thank you. Excited.

Stephanie. Yeah. Just to report, we had our royalty pageant on Friday, and we've got six new royalty girls. They're very excited. Appreciated the mayor's remarks and appreciated having Tiffany and Dave there to support the girls too. Another, for your information, the youth council backed up candy today for the Easter hunt that will be on April 4. It's at 01:00. And I know that's a really strange time, but that's between general conference sessions to accommodate the predominant religion in Hyde Park. And then just one other concern. A recent email from staff was sent without their fully educating themselves on a topic, and I just had to have a concern that that not happened with our citizens or our contractors or our developers. I hope that the staff will be fully versed and educated before responding or corresponding with people. It's just a Good.

I'll yield yield my fifteen to thirty minutes to Marcus for whatever item it was that he wanted to discuss. That means three to five. K. I promise it'll be really fast. So I will add that

I have sent draft templates to That's what you said. Stephanie and Tiffany for

boards. So I I sent you an email. Yes. I haven't read. You're not not mailed to that, but I didn't What? I own sent think it's through us all in. Did you send it today? Three hours ago. White It was Right. I think I I think I saw that today, but I don't think I sent it three minutes before the meeting, Tiffany. Come on. No. It's it's

charters for different organizations, so we get that officially organized. So Perfect. Marcus.

Okay. So the item that was supposed to be on the agenda, but it's not and I can't even fault Donya for it because she's been battling an illness, and so it just slipped through the cracks. So we're doing an overhaul of all the utilities. We've been talking about this. We've been talking about tenant landlord agreements. We've updated a couple policies. Another piece of that puzzle is our billing software that we use. We get a lot of complaints and concerns from people about our billing software, specifically that it's not super user friendly, and the payments are kind of a pain for the city staff. I didn't know this until Colette told me, but when somebody makes a payment, they input it manually into the system. There's an online option. But, yeah, they input it manually into the system. Our billing software doesn't talk to our other softwares. And so the ladies in the office have to manually take those payments, put them in a spreadsheet, download that information or put in download it, put in a spreadsheet, reupload it to our other softwares, like for meter billing, for other things, and it leads to endless amount of hours of double checking, triple checking, losing a penny here, a nickel there, and it eats up so, so much time. So Colette did some research, went to other communities, found out what they do, and a bunch of the communities around here use a program called Express Bill Pay. And that's what what we were supposed to present tonight was a proposal to update our, pro our it's getting late. My mouth stopped working. The SecurIncent payments is who we currently use. We want to change that contract to be with Express Bill Pay instead. Currently, with Secur Instant Payments, we pay and there's there's a whole folder and box about it called utilities. Let me put this on the screen for you. $40.95. Is that Yeah. It's pretty clear why we went with secure instant payments however many years ago we did. They are by far the the cheapest option that we found, like, by a mile. We pay a whopping $40 a month for our software, billing software. Now we make up for that in all the hours spent double tracking everything, and we push all the fees back to people who use credit cards and other payment options that have an additional tack on fee. So, yeah, we've kept it really cheap for ourselves, but we feel like with the complaints of the residents, with the time that staff is spending on this, we would rather spend a lot more money per month to try and have a more customer oriented product and one that's easier for the staff to use and one that talks to all of our accounts, all of our softwares, and one that produces bills so we no longer have to go to a third party to produce the the bills and attracts people's usage, which is a feature they've been asking for for forever. I mean, there's a whole table in here that there's so many benefits for it. And so we would like to request to the city council that you would approve us to make this change. But since it's not on the agenda, you can't vote on it. So I just wanted to give that primer because the next city council meeting, we will be asking you to vote on this.

Can can I ask you a couple questions on that? Yeah. Would this new system be available to help us, like, with the city celebration, like, when people want to pay for

That I don't know, but we could find out. And and also the Spook Alley.

I mean, would this allow people to use credit cards at those events?

I will find out. That's a great question. Susan did tell me a workaround for that because there was discussion at the front porch group about if we could sell raffle tickets. And she said, yes. It would be fine if they went to the website and chose other and typed in raffle and paid their bill paid their thing. But you don't have, like But this will be the phone. Know you. Them. So Yeah. But I'm just saying that right now, you can do it that way. But I think it would be better if we could because we could use it for a lot of things. Okay. This will be implemented.

For a lot more. Yeah. Yeah. And I I use my Venmo all the time too. But the so

this is the monthly fee is $26.59.

Yeah. And one thing to point out, the reason why that's really high is because we, as city staff, feel like we're in a position as a city where we want to start absorbing some of those end user fees for credit card payments for the lower cost payments. So we called Hiram City because I live in Hiram. I got a utility bill, and we were looking at it and had some questions and called them and asked them, what do you do for, like, credit card fees? Because their budgeting should like, didn't address that, and they said, oh, we just pay for it because any payment that's lower theirs was they had some threshold they set. Like, any payment lower than the $500, the city just pays for that. And it's because that's the majority of their payments, and they felt like that was a cost that they as a city should be absorbing and not passing on to everybody. But if it's a one of the huge checks and they wanna bring a credit card and the resulting fee is a couple, you know, like, hundreds of dollars, then Hiram Citi does not just absorb that. So that's part of this monthly fee. You'll see here this eight number 1,800, that's total number of connections. So this is your subscription and support for 1,800 connections. So, again, this goes up as we get more connections to the system. There's a monthly subscription fee. And then we estimate, looking at our payments, that about 300 of the payments or 300 of the accounts use a credit card on that lower amount. So this is the city kinda subsidizing that cost. And then the other types of transactions, that's the number of accounts that use them. So what we're basically saying is, yeah, the city is willing to subsidize that amount as a service to our residents to say,

I don't know. We appreciate you. And if it makes our bills easier to pay, because I agree. I don't like paying our I tried to pay my city bill online. I hate it. Like, our our Citi website. So the our one of Colette's favorite features about this is when people wanna sign up for utilities,

you can do it directly through the company. When we signed up with Hiram, we called down to Hiram City and said, what do we do? They said, oh, just go online, click a button, make an account, and you're set. So it saves some stuff. It took us, like, three minutes. This company would also handle any billing dispute questions. They're not gonna handle questions like, you know, why did my water bill go up by $2? Because that's a rate question. They'll send it back to the city. But if somebody had, you know, a credit from the month before and they're not seeing it show up on the next month, they can answer those questions.

And is it on the next,

yeah, council So, yeah, that's that's a short version. We'll present this again at the next meeting for a vote. If you have questions come up before then, come on in. Talk to us.

We're happy to fill you in. Wherever we take money, you should see if it'll work for that.

Yeah. So this this should talk to all of our other softwares that we use for any other payments that we get.

Just

quick. What was the price of the last like, the our current one per month? $40 a month. Oh, how much of budget that's 2,600 a month? Yeah. So we'd be looking 2,600 a month. Again, a lot of that is we feel like we're ready to start providing a little bit of subsidization for those smaller payments. But if that's not something the council wants to do, we can get it rebid out so that we're passing all those fees back to the residents. But we have staff

because of the archaic method spending about ten hours a week Yeah. Reentering.

And she's worried. She said in the human error side of it Yeah. She's worried about, which I I think are all valid

concerns. So, apparently, that's not part of what we wanna use to define kind of the old town feeling of Hyde Park. Right? Like, we do everything manually. You have to come in. We do here it's here.

No. If you got 20¢ error on somebody's bill, you're gonna hear about it. No. You you don't wanna know how many times

I have heard the phrase, like, I can't find that 10¢ or that dollar. I don't know where it is. And then sometimes it's one, sometimes it's three of those ladies going back through, checking every single check, every single payment, all the softwares. Where did that 25¢

go? That's It's that's the happened a lot. Some Transmitware.

Well Well, I'm not fond of the one we got, so I'm

Okay. Again, everything that's inboxed tonight, I'm just gonna take and directly put into next week's packet. So all the information you have should be the same if you look at tonight's packet or the next one. Bless you.

Alright. So I would entertain a motion to dismiss.

So moved. Yep. Motion from Kurt to leave. Is there a second? I'll second it. Or Steph can second it. Go ahead.

Got a second from Tiffany. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with that?