Hyde Park City Council 4.8.26

Gonna start that on time.

Our father in heaven, we're so grateful for the opportunity we have of living in this great country. We're grateful for especially the opportunity we have of living here in Hyde Park and working with those that are around us to help make this city better. We're grateful for all that we have, for all we've been blessed with, and all we've been given. We're thankful for families here and how they make up such a great community. We pray that we will be mindful of of our people that in live in this city as we make decisions that we will have the interest of their interest in mind as we move forward and and serve and and be able to do these things. Please bless our country. Bless our nation that it may be be blessed, protect our servicemen and women. We are grateful for all of these things, and we ask for these things and pray for these things and do it in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Amen.

Would you lead to call me in the first place?

I pledge to lead this to the flag

of The United States Of America

one nation under God, indivisible,

with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Kurt. We wanna also pray let it be known that council member Osborne is out of town right now, but we will reach out to him later for a session that we have. And he's he's got a busy month as he's got a son getting married. So, like, told me he doesn't have to actually be there. It's not like it's he him getting married, but, apparently, his wife thinks otherwise. The first item that you have on your agenda is the review and acceptance of the meeting minutes from March 25. Let's take the workshop first. Council member Breyer, have you got any comments on the meeting minutes from the workshop? I'm good. Tiffany?

No comments. None.

Just thank you, Donnie, for the good notes. Appreciate

I'll make that motion.

A motion from Stephanie. Is there a second? A second. A second from David. Any more discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay. The next item is for the council meeting minutes. So for March 25. David, have you have you got anything? No. I don't. Stephanie? Nope. You're great. Stephanie? Nothing for me. Kirk? No. I look for I move to accept them. There we go. We got a motion. I'll second it. And the second. Any more discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay? We have before us the agenda. I don't have any changes to it. So if you don't counsel, we'd look for a motion to approve that agenda. I'll motion we approve the agenda as written. We've got a motion from Tiffany to approve. Is there a second? I'll second. Second for Stephanie. Any discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay. Now is the time we open it up for resident input, and we ask that you keep the comments to three minutes and their items that are not currently on the agenda. We may or may not be able to answer, but we'll go through the resident input at this time. So we'll open this up.

Mister mayor, council members, my name is Bill Knowlton. I am a member of the Hyde Park Partners development team that's doing the Cache Meadows facility. Just a brief comment. We do development work all over the Western United States. And I have to tell you, I was quite moved by council member Brower's, prayer and invocation and also the the gratitude he expressed for this country, for America, and also, the pledge of allegiance. That doesn't happen in other communities. And I just wanna give kudos to Hyde Park for having your priorities straight. Thank you.

Welcome. Thank you. Any other comments? If not, we'll close that resident input, and we appreciate the comments. And I think I would speak for all of it. I think all of us say what happened here goes without say. Surprised that your comment that it doesn't happen that way in other communities, but we don't have a dog in their fight. So the first item is to get the chief is away, so we won't have police input, but I'll turn it to Marcus for staff.

Thank you. And the pool there is a quick rundown of the weekly stats. The chief did send that over, and so that is in the packet for you to look at. The only updates that I have is that we met with the mayor this morning, myself and Dania, to work on the budget. And so far, things are looking pretty good, but we will be proposing we're gonna have to propose some kind of tax increase or something to make everybody's wishes come true. So just a heads up. And then due to the new laws put in place by the state, our first meeting in May, we're gonna have to have there's some procedural things we'll have to do to talk about the budget, but we're not gonna be holding any public hearings until the actual budget. Oh, we do it in May? My bad. K. So we will be having a public hearing the first meeting in May to have feedback on that tentative budget. So just a heads up for everybody.

When will do you anticipate that you'll have that complete that we can look at it? Yes. Okay. Super. Thanks, Don.

But down in June,

we're under reality name what we do. So yeah. That's tricky. So we need you to say thanks for the bill you just ate, and we'll feed you the next month. It it's gonna be a guess.

Yeah. We're we have educated guesses about how much revenue a tax increase will bring in, and we went through that this morning, but we won't know the exact dollar figure until the county publishes their numbers in June. And so the preliminary budget that we will have the public hearing on is definitely gonna be preliminary

because we won't have those exact numbers yet. Will we have the exact numbers from the county prior to us having to pass ours? Absolutely. Yeah. So We will. We won't have it for the preliminary for the hearing in May, but we will have their numbers

before we actually have to Yes. Adopt the real budget. Yes. Got it. Okay. Are we anticipating

staying the rate or an increase above staying the rate? Is that what you're

The budget

shows just staying the rate. That's fine. Yeah. Okay. Staying at a decreased rate that we got an increase this last year. Okay. Oh, yeah. Okay. It's not zero zero one one. Okay. Yeah.

And then the only other thing is the two notes on the agenda. There's no city council meeting the week of April 22 due to the fact that most of the council will be at the League of Cities and Towns midyear conference. And then next week, we are having our monthly general plan workshop next week instead of at its regular time. So come on down at 06:00.

For me, we we reached an agreement with Project Back forty on an MOU for the city to be reimbursed if we have to perform a study. So the the back forty would pay for that. They would reimburse us up to a certain amount. So I've since it didn't obligate the city to actually perform that study or obligate any funds, I've signed that agreement and sent that back to to them or and they've already sent it to us signed. We're in discussions, and it's been in the news of Bayer Dixer. There's more lot more that needs to be fleshed out on this, and we're going to be meeting with multiple cities and the county executive to talk about how this would come about. So as soon as there's a true direction, I'm gonna invite executive names to come and present here at this council. So

the last item is Thanks. A question on that. So if we're not double paying for fire, will that open up some money for the budget?

In the theory, yes. Is that how it's gonna work? We don't know quite yet.

Yeah. It it if it were that simple, I would say yes. But it's probably not gonna be that simple, unfortunately.

Where's the company?

Where's the money to pay for it? Sorry to throw that out there and just, you know

but part of our We'll let you know what we find out. That that part of

recognizing that the persons weren't opposed to us paying over time. So that's the final amount would have to come back to council and have an agreement of what the contract would look like if we could spend it over four years or something, and we change our code where people don't necessarily they we have a problem where everyone has to bring their water. Maybe there's some leeway if we could acquire some. Don't know how much leeway and and making sure that we get reimbursed some of that water funds that the city expands. So, anyway.

Fantastic.

No police report? Let's turn it over for the water quality report.

Thank you, mayor. City council, this is a more of a heads up. So every year, we do their annual drinking water quality report in partnership with the state of Utah. This is a report that's available on our website. You go to our public works page, and there's a link called drinking water report. It's available for everybody to read. This is a notification for the public about our water system as a whole. This is all about the quality of the water. So it talks about the different things that you could find in the water, different things that are common locally, geographically. And the short version is our water is really, really clean, and we get high marks for it every year. And so if you have any questions about this report, please don't hesitate to reach out to me, and I can address those for you. But this we don't need a motion. We just need a acknowledgment from the city council that you are aware of this report, and you know where to find this report. And if you have any issues with it, you will let us know.

We have very good water.

Yeah. The way that our system's set up is it kinda gets all mixed together before it goes out to people's homes. Okay. Yeah. And so We could pump from the wells to any of them, and we can run from the spring to any. So we don't test it be as it's coming in from the spring or coming up from the well. We it's okay. After the tree. No. This is testing that's done in partnership with the health department. The health department took the samples for many years. They're backing away from that. Now the city's gonna take our own samples and just send them to the health department to be tested, and they go to set locations throughout the city just testing the water as it comes out of different sources. Oh, look good. Thanks.

If you just look at the levels detected versus what's allowed, you'll notice that it's we've got new curve. Yeah. So I look good.

It's good.

Alright. The next item when when do they test

the pump here? Airwell?

As soon as As soon as we connect it in with the tank. Tank. If we test it now, we're gonna have a mess. We're we're

you asked a tough question, Kurt. We're we've got everything going except for the connection into the tank.

And We're working with the contractors to make that happen as soon as possible.

Yeah. But it's a lot like pushing a string uphill. So we want it done next week, and they wanna wait till later in the month. And we have problems with spring and water flow, and they're putting us in a very difficult situation, which should not be an amazement to anyone. The next item is to consider the Cache Meadows skilled nursing senior development park impact fee. As you recall, last council meeting, everything was you made motions on everything, and this one was con continued. You have inbox the email that we that we received. Now I can't find it. I'll have to look at marks. And while that I I think it's only right and correct that we if Cache Meadows here, they certainly can come and speak to their view if you'd like to do that. And, I mean, I think that's I

I

see you brought the muscle out this time. Thank you.

My business partners and I would like to have fun at city council meetings because sometimes there's actually tens or hundreds of people that are here in opposition to us. So he actually could bet me $20, but I couldn't make two of you laugh at the same time, and I couldn't use the words tyrannosaurus reps in in this conversation. So that's on hold of record. None of you laughed, so I lost. So you owe

I lost. So you owe me $10. Yeah. Actually, you did get everyone to laugh. Pardon? You did get everyone to laugh. So, technically, he owes me $20. Okay. There you go. Alrighty.

Thank you for having us back. We we really do appreciate it. This letter is simply a follow-up to our conversation from two weeks ago. You were gracious enough to allow me some more time to do some more work and some more research both on the city's parks impact fee and then on our position as it relates to the parks impact fee. Marcus was great at providing us his calculations and his backup for how it was calculated. This letter basically highlights the current way that the city is calculating impact fees for parks, and that's based on your 2021 study. And it strictly is tied to population growth, which makes sense because under state statute, right, your impact fees can only be charged to new development based on the demand that that new development is expected to put on that specific service, whether it's water, sewer, or parks. And so our use falls in a unique category. And if you look at surrounding cities and also cities up and down the Wasatch Front and throughout Utah, the majority of them actually do not charge an impact fee for parks or recreation on commercial users. And it really goes back to the primary reason of that of what impact fees are for and how the state of Utah how the state of Utah's legislative body has defined it, which is what is and this is why they're called impact fees. What is the impact of that population or that development going to be on that publicly provided service? And here, in our scenario, our position remains that our impact is near zero. Now will we have nurses and employees, etcetera, move to Hyde Park City and become residents of Hyde Park City? We hope. We absolutely hope so. And then they will be obliged to pay or obligated to pay that impact fee if they're building a home or a condo or, you know, they'll be they'll be buying a a home privately and those impact fees will already have been paid. So that is where our position currently is at. That is kind of a very summarized version of what this letter stipulation outlines. I have references to other cities' municipal code as it relates to their specific impact fee laws. I have a breakdown of the impact fees as they were calculated, some corrections, And that's kind of that's where we're at. Open for conversation. I have really two proposals in there. Again, our number one proposal, we are asking for a full waiver. Number two is a significant reduction because I understand that council council does feel that there will be some impact based on this development on parts potentially from family members visiting residents, from employees potentially walking their dogs and using the trail system. So I totally understand that, and that's the number I have thrown out there. Honestly, it's somewhat of an arbitrary number. But in I I I do not mean this disrespectfully to Marcus because I I think that he did a phenomenal job of trying to calculate impact fees for a project that doesn't have a calculation under your impact fee study. I don't know the ERUs are the way to do it. So that is why my proposal my my second proposal for a significant reduction is simply an arbitrary. I believe this is what our impact would be. I don't know that either calculation, mine or Marcus', technically are allowed under state statute. I'm I mean, I don't know that I can be any more bare and transparent up here, and and that's why my third proposal is, hey. If we can't come to an understanding or you guys just don't feel comfortable providing any reduction or you're going, hey. Let's get a study done. We'll pay for the study. Like, we'll go get a study done for our for our project. I do think it would it would benefit the city based on your your growth that's that's going on, which is fantastic, to get your own study for commercial development and and how it relates to your impact fees. Again, Marcus' task has been monumental to get this done, and super grateful for him to him for doing that. But I think both of us are taking a little bit of a shot in the dark. So if we look at all the other cities in the surrounding area, most of them, zero impact fees for commercial development on parks, not on water and sewer and everything else that we already talked about, but primarily on parks because parks are looked at as a benefit to residents of the city, and therefore, that impact is directly related to population growth within the city. Any questions, concerns? I haven't had a gavel broken at city councils in a month.

We haven't had a council meeting in a month. So

weeks. I was here two weeks ago. Well, it was last month, though. Fair enough. Fair enough.

I I've thought about this a lot, counsel. I know in in the email that is between the city and the attorney, the rough estimate originally was $1.93.

Oh, but he won't dial in for parts with Originally, before the decrease, when they applied, it was Yeah. So our attorney offered a couple clarifications. Clarification number one is the amount that was assigned to the building permit was already reduced from what would be the base amount if we were just charging Like a rent. Like the study says, you know, per door, per bed. That amount would have been closer to a 190 or 150,000 depending on which number you use. And so the city attorneys said, number one, there was already a discount given at the time of the permit. Although the calculations are there are calculations. I'm missing some information on how some of the variables were found to determine the ERUs, and I was transparent with, these fine gentlemen about that. But our city attorney said that's the first clarification is there's already a discount. Second clarification he offered is, he couldn't find any kind of evidence to definitively say that the impact would be zero, but he said, sure. We could agree that there is a reduced impact from these types of facilities. So our attorney's recommendation was that we've already offered a discount of approximately 69% when we assigned the fee the permit, even though we can't definitively determine how we did that. He felt that that was a pretty steep reduction, and the city could stand behind that. So we we've offered a discount on

something that we have no qualifiable or quantifiable evidence of what a rate should be to start with for a commercial entity like that. So that's I I get that part.

And, mayor, if I may, if the attorney were here, my counterargument to him would be our fees were never a 190,000 because your impact fee study, which you're legally obligated to follow, defines the impact fee and calculates it on a population to a per connection cost. We only have one connection. We don't have a 120 connections.

Right. So so that's why I say it's not a quantifiable or qualifiable.

Exactly. And that's why I'm going Marcus And and has undertaken a monumental and staff have undertaken a monumental task. But, anyway Yeah.

That I think the city agrees with you. Trying to, you know, read the tea leaves, so to speak, about something that we really haven't got identified. So and recognizing that it was what is it? 59? Yeah. I would I would say, likely, there there's you know, hopefully, the employ the employees, some of them move to Hyde Park, and that impact fee gets adjusted when they buy their homes, but or build build a new home. To say that, you know, knowing the clientele, there may be visitors and things like that, employees that might utilize to some regards. So that's where you throw out your option two. Let me go back to that. Oops. Wrong one. I have so much open here. On your option two where you have a reduced amount that you're talking about. And I I would say that reduced amount, $1,112,000, whatever that amount was in that $11,932.50. I'm about we we know how engineering studies go. That's probably about the same cost as the study. That might be their bid on the study. So and and the outcome of that study might be their impact or no impact or something. You know? We don't know what it is. If so that leads you into option three. If they have that study, are you willing to live with the outcome of that study? Is your just having to think about the various options. Yeah. That outcome could be nothing. It could be something. So that's I was I I have a view, but I don't vote. So, counsel, this is to you recognizing that I appreciate what Marcus has done, researching, trying to figure out something that's we have really no guidelines to figure out. And I appreciate the the people, you know, taking their time with us, trying to help us navigate new territory. So do you have questions or a discussion council? Kurt?

I I wanna make sure I understand what we're talking about because I'm not sure I understand it. It's okay. How much money or what's the fee presently that we had? Like, how I mean, with the reduction and everything, what is it we're talking about?

59 and 2,062.

It's So the amount? Roughly $60,000.

Right. That's the amount that was assigned to Bill. And what are you recommending?

We our our our primary request is a full waiver. However, our backup secondary request is 20% of that amount. So approximately $12,000.

There's

so backup to their backup is And and, again, council member Bower, if you go, hey, Tyler. How did you calculate that? Or come up with 20%? I pull it it it was a it was an attempt to compromise where that's what I pulled out.

So you're you're saying, I I know you want it for free. But if you don't, it's 20% of the 60. Correct? Yes, sir. K.

How much would the study cost you? I don't know, but I'm willing to pay for it.

Anybody have an idea, Marcus?

Depends on how detailed it's gonna be. You you if it's

My traffic study through Hell's Engineering was $2,200. About $2,200. I would imagine a parks impact. If they're just We need to know who your engineers are then because

I was gonna say this study is gonna be between 5 and 10,000. It's a little different when the city calls versus a private party. Yeah. It depends on who does it too.

Short answer is no. I don't. I have no idea how much a single park impact fee study would cost. Probably not terribly expensive. Not like one of our master plan or fee impact fee updates studies have cost.

So keeping in mind, My father lived at Pioneer Valley. And when he passed what's the one south of there called? South Of Pioneer Pioneer Valley.

Not Legacy. Is it Legacy?

No. It's the big Maple Springs? What's it called? Maple Springs? Maple Springs. That's right. Big one on the corner at that roundabout. That's where he was when he passed. And that one would be more along the skilled nursing of of what they're doing. They all my time going over there, you know, some some people drove. They had both senior care and skilled nursing there. They had their own on-site places for for things. I they had their own busing that they would take people to grocery and things like that, but I never recall my dad ever been saying that you're going to the park. Yeah.

This nursing facility is truly a an immediate post acute care facility. So people here are coming usually directly from the hospital, and it it it's it's a it's a it's a lockdown facility. Not not in the true sense of the word. Right? But it's like a hospital. You're not leaving that facility unless your physician tells you that you're Rehabilitative type. Yes. And you're then you're either going to your home or you'll be going, hopefully, across the streets to our future assisted living facility. Right? And and that is a big delineator between assisted living and skilled nursing is these skilled nursing patients, some of them are immobile. Many of them will be tram will be transported, you know, through private ambulatory services from hospital to facility. The assisted living will have a 100 connections, you know, to water and sewer. It will have impact on your part. This is one step below a hospital. This facility can treat almost anything that is not immediately acute. People come here for a number of weeks to a number of months to heal from acute and chronic illness. So they're not they are not leaving that facility unless they're being exploited.

Tyler, is it safe to say that you'll be back here in a number of years with proposals for the assisted living facility,

phase two? I hope to be back here in a number of months. Okay. Oh, great. Yeah. We we hope to release our architect any day Okay. To build the assisted living next door. And I can affirmatively say on record, I I as far as parks go impact fee, I won't be having this conversation. I know my residents of the assisted living will have an impact on your population and on your parks.

And I guess what I would say is we don't know what the impact will be, so we'll be right back here again having a similar conversation. I'll just jump right out there and say, I this is the first time I think anybody's offered to pay for a study and not have the city pay for it. I mean, I'd be okay with that as long as included in that is not just skilled nursing, but assisted living as part of that study so that when Yeah. We see you in again a couple months that we We're not having this conversation. We're not having it again that we are we have a study that says, here's what this this study recommends for skilled nursing facility. Here's what the recommends for skilled nursing. I suspect, excuse me, for assisted living. I suspect we won't have too many more of these kind of facilities in Hyde Park. You you will not have any more nursing facilities. Yeah. Maybe assist them, perhaps. But Hopefully not Yeah. For my sake.

But, Marcus, when you guys redid the multifamily impact fee study, did it include parks and transportation, or did you just do water and sewer?

It was all of them. It was all of them? We included a study for a multifamily rate of every impact fee. Okay. So but

I like the idea of including assisted living. I think it falls closer to a multifamily type use Mhmm. Than the nursing home. And so I wouldn't have much debate for it, but I'm not opposed to including both in my study. I think it gives clarity for for all parties involved. Look. A study ultimately could could negatively affect me. Right? Right. But I'd rather have that clarity for me and for you guys.

The the

big delineating issue for me is this is nursing versus assisted living. We we can plug that one into our calculations,

and that works. It's truly multifamily. It's multifamily. It plugs in with connections. It it it works with how we calculate. We do not have a memory care component for both, and so it's not under lockdown. Residents are free to come and go just as, you know, they are at an apartment complex. Yeah. Yeah. That's

so what's the advantage of doing a study?

We can we can prove to the state that there's proportionality in what we're charging them, which is the requirement, right, that we we can't charge something that we shouldn't be charging in a study. We've done a study for every other impact fee we have under the sun, but we haven't done one for a specific kind of facility like this. That's how I see it. Yeah. Right. And the way our attorney described it was the way it is right now is defensible in court, but it's not the most precise way. Well and when I read his letter to me, it appeared that he was addressing more to do with assisted living than skilled nursing as I read that letter. This this would really address

I mean, if the city council wants to go with a third party study, that's up to you. I would just say couple of caveats there. First, we would want some kind of written agreement between the two parties Yeah. Acknowledging that this is what the city council wants. And then I just wanna be really clear. You're saying if we do a study, regardless of how it turns out, you're okay with acknowledging and accepting the results.

Yeah. Because we're not gonna have them pay to perform a study and then not accept it. Yeah. I

skilled nursing beds. Not not until we hit 92% occupancy and statewide occupancy is 64%.

Yeah. Okay. So So it's not likely that we'll have another facility like this come anytime soon. We'll have a study on the shelf that'll need to be updated in in ten years when when we hit the higher when all of us And we won't remember us either. None of us have been here. Looking through our

spot. So if that's the case, then would the council consider, if we're going with the study, to make some kind of motion to the effect of once the study's done, we can just assign the building permit. We don't have to have them come back to the council for another vote. So I I think

there's three motions that is before you. Motioned a is you accept them at their initial request of Zero. Zero. B is they kinda concede and say it's approximately 12,000, and they're willing to go there. Or c,

And I don't believe zero impact is realistic. A reduced impact, I I would agree with you. Yeah. I I think So and I don't think we have to accept their number because right? You You don't. You absolutely don't. And I not that I have better numbers to to give you a better number. But I think in their letter,

gave some good examples of cities that don't have impact fees for this kind of facility. But

we also have probably examples where other cities do. Yeah. And then that's kind of a problem because each city crafts their impact fees according to their study. Yep. And so unless we know how they did their studies and how they implemented all that How they applied it to It's not sipping apples and oranges. And so it's good to see what our neighbors are doing, and we very often do that for all the things that we do. But you I would advise the council not just to accept that at face value because we don't know the data and the numbers and the situation and the budgets of those cities. Maybe they don't have any more room to buy any more parks, and so they don't have a park impact fee because there's nowhere to expand the parks. I mean, there's lots of variables that go into that.

Yeah. I I I agree. And there's it's not like they're building a lot more of these skilled nursing abilities

in this Cache Cache Valley or Utah. So it's hard to have a comparison on that. Yeah. I I I pulled those cities in as a comparison because simply because my understanding is is that's how our impact fees were calculated, was looking at neighboring cities

on You have one in River Heights?

No. No. I included cities not necessarily where we have developed, but cities that are similar Okay. To Hyde Park and then just some in the general area. But Marcus is correct. It is it is apples and oranges, and that's why I I believe that Sunrise had such a hard time coming up with how to calculate our even our impact fees on water, sewer, transportation, etcetera.

Yeah. And a quick specification, the studies to establish the impact fee amount were done the same way, probably the same format that's required by state code. Yep. The looking at other cities and using data was used to determine equivalent ERU amount for the water and wastewater usage. Yeah. So our impact fees were done according to state standards, and that's where the you have the variables because Where? When Logan City does their math, it's gonna look way different. And what one house an impact that one house has on a much more established city is not the same impact as it would have on a much less established city like us. So that was it. I'm that's just the specification.

You got the same thing up tonight too. And I recognize in here that many cities only tabulate their impact fee based on residential. So

I I I think I think we should my recommendation or my motion would be to accept the 20 instead of 25% That gives us an additional 3,000, which would be less than probably in study would do, which we put on a shelf. I think we move on and and and this is a unique situation. We're not gonna have it more of them. They're all gonna be a little different. We'll come do with them as they I don't think the impact's gonna help us with anything down the road.

So that's my Your motion is basically number three, but versus 25%. 25%. Yeah. Got a motion from

Number two. Pardon?

Number two. Number two. Number two. With an existing But with the modification, I think that if that is said to be at 20% of 25. This this is that 20%? That's not 20%.

Percent of the of the of the 16. Well, the motion was to bump it to 25. So number two says 20% of the current amount. Kirk is recommending that we bump that up to 25% of the current amount. Is that correct? Yes.

But

okay.

He's just saying So that takes us to be on top of Okay.

Being a fair So we got motion from council member Brower to accept proposal two significant reduction, but rather than a 20% to make it at 25% of the current amount, which takes it somewhere I won't guess, but 25% is 15. That's 15. $18. 15, somewhere around here. Yeah. Yeah. Do we have a second on that? If we don't have a second, we will have it. It will die for It's a bad idea.

What's that? I don't think it's a bad idea. I just don't know if I personally am willing to reduce it that much. I'm I'm leaning towards going with our attorney's recommendation Where we've already discounted

by Do I have a second on this motion? If not, the motion will die for a lack of a second. Do I have another motion? I I I I thought I I

And

That's it. 59 and change.

Stay with the impact fee as it was assessed with the building permit?

Yes.

That's 59662.5. Got a motion from Stephanie to stay at the the current adjusted amount of $59.06 $6.02 50. Is there a second? We will have with no second, it will die if we have no second. I shouldn't say die, but motion fails for lack of a second.

I just don't in my head, I I don't because I do agree limited use of maybe our parks, limited impact on the parks. I just don't know what the fair reduction is because we've already given you a considerable reduction on your other impact fees. I know you feel justified in them, and we approve them.

Ah, count council member Atkinson, I appreciate the transparency. I hope if anything, the council has seen that we really don't hide our cards. Like, we're open and and open not only to showing you everything that we have done and why we feel this way, which I hope the letter has has thoroughly done. But I'm not standing up here hoping to, you know, get a win off of Hyde Park City or not pay something that I I genuinely owe. I'm up here asking them for a reduction because I genuinely don't believe we're we should be paying that. And if we are anything I do pay, I feel like I'm I'm paying it to try to be a good partner with this city, and that's it. And so I I only say that because I do appreciate the candor and the transparency. And we try to do that in all of our deals with all the cities that we work with. So sometimes, maybe I share too much.

We appreciate it. That yeah. And and in transparency as well, I think you get to see the council make sausage. You may not want to eat sausage anymore, but this is it's a challenging thing because it's a one of, and and we can go jump through a lot of special hoops to get a study to tell us something that we're not gonna use ever again. Or so do we have another motion, counselor?

How long does it take to do the study, and how does that impact your progress of your development? So

if if this motion were to pass, I would propose that it be amended where we can actually pay what's currently being asked. And then any change to that based on the study is refunded to us or we end up paying more.

That's actually included in proposal number three. I already include that, Marcus? Yeah. So it says under that option, we would request the city allow the project to proceed by escrowing the currently disputed parks impact fee amount with the final amount to be determined after the third party study is completed and reviewed by the city. Any amount determined to be excessive would then be refunded or credited accordingly.

So that was already built in there. Yeah. Thank you. I got I don't know what I have for once.

So I'm really not in favor of the study, but I feel like maybe that is the more fair approach if we wanna be fair and pursue it and look into it. And then you're willing to pay the full amount if we owe you we owe you at the end or a ULS vice versa, whatever it actually looks like. So is

that a

I don't wanna do that, but, yeah, I'll second that motion. So we've got a second

to proposal three and accepting the results of said study with all the qualifiers within that proposal.

I feel like it's because it is unique. And I don't think we need the study, but I do feel like it is the most fair way for us to act also in good faith. Absolutely.

And and and, like, that last paragraph says, Utah law gives you that right in unique situations, and this is a unique situation. And so I myself would feel better with a study knowing I have a defendable reason for paying that fee, whether it's a $150,000 or zero. Right? Mhmm. At least we have a third party telling us, no. This is what it realistically should be. This is the direct impact on your parts from their development.

And we would agree upon who does the study and Yeah. And that was really my point, Tiffany, as I've looked at this and thought about it long and hard going, well, how do I come in here and and go with one or two or any number? Because I have nothing that I can base it on. Yeah. Right? The only thing I could base it on would be a study that I'm not gonna be able to

do off the inter you know what I mean? So Not our expertise. It's To provide Yeah. So it it it it it's all the more reason to give praise to Marcus and Steph for the talent effort they went through to actually calculate these in the first place. Yep.

So I mean, a couple 100,000 more dollars in our parks fees. Yeah. I'd be ecstatic for that. But if

that's not the right and fair thing to do, then then we don't need to be going down that path. I agree. I have a feeling we're gonna be writing that check council in full when we develop the assisted living. Okay?

Any more discussion, council? Having none, all in favor of that motion, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with nay?

Nay. Nay.

So then I think the next scare thing Hold on. Is back to Back to the Oh, sorry. By our

by the state law, when there's a tie, the mayor gets to vote. Oh, you get to vote. This is the first time, and this is my fourth

term as mayor. I think the I've never voted.

I kind of forgot that you could vote. I guess we'll wait for the mayor to make his vote. $20.

I feel the way you're on the phone line. That is crazy.

That is nice. I've I've been a zoning attorney for seventeen years. I've never seen this happen.

I I've I was on city council in this for one term, and this is my fourth as mayor, and I've never seen it happen.

I cracked the plumbing line in seven states with similar hiccups. This is the first time in seventeen years of cities. Well,

you are welcome.

Welcome. So, yeah, based on our form of government and the mayor's That's right. Responsibilities, he doesn't vote. They the mayor does not vote unless it's a tie. So here's your moment. Barrels? Here's your moment to shine. I'm gonna

vote in favor of the motion because I I I would personally, I would like to see the city get park impact fee, but the fair thing to do is to determine if there is an impact. So and I think they're they're extending a a great olive branch in that here, we'll pay it what it is, and then you refund if or we'll pay more, whatever the outcome of the study. So I think that's a fair and equitable treating them fairly. I would like to see funds in the city park, but That's fine. What's fair is what should take precedence. So

So mayor and council, just for clarification, I'm gonna be contacting the city attorney then and just getting a statement written up from him about how what our expected participation in the study will be. I anticipate we would want to have input on the selection process Holy. And possibly be included in some form or fashion during the study to have an interview or something like that. But then I'll get that statement from the city attorney, forward it to the developers, and we will go from there. And we can have the attorneys work out the legalese. And, Marcus, I don't know

I don't know the law relative to this. The only thing I would probably request I will request is we use a third party engineering firm that that Oh, yeah. That isn't

Yeah. We don't wanna poison the well. City. We like Sunrise Engineering, but since they've already participated in this as in kind of a study, we'll definitely

want to have somebody else Yes. Yes. Be doing the analysis for I'd have to use a third party engineering firm we haven't used just so, you know, it's a neutral group doing the study.

Yeah. So So I'll get that written up and get it sent over to you, and we'll figure this out. I I think the the decision, it it

I believe in I don't believe in the win lose. I believe in a win win or evenly distribution of pain. So

And I think it's one win, and I truly do believe what I said. I I think and I know you're having budget talks, and this year, we're not gonna hear it. It it would be hooten city to have a commercial impact fee study done because I I see your commercial base starting to grow Yeah. Along Main Street and in other areas. And then you're doing a great job with it, but well, you're not having these these conversations. So

are we done on this issue? Sure. So thirty second comment. I went to law school at Arizona State, and it was named after Sandra Day O'Connor who went to law school with my uncle. Justice O'Connor, I met her for thirty seconds in Phoenix, and she told me something. The representative form of government and the back and forth that just happened here and the result that came is what makes America unique. It's complicated. It's not easy. It's hard, but it's what differentiates us from every other country in the world, and it works. It takes time. It takes passion. It takes thought, but it works. And that's what differentiates America. And I love it, and I love everything that happened here tonight. So kudos to Hyde Park. Thank you. Thank you, guys.

Anything else for me?

No. Unless you wanna talk to express bill pay. No. I'll pay my entire I'll pay my bills and block bills. So Let let us know when you're doing the We are so close. Breaking groundbreaking,

and we'll invite the council and staff to come out and You all will be break the ground. And you all will be invited. We'll try to get, hopefully, the band there from Green Canyon High School, other representatives. Yeah. It not not it's it's not Green Canyon. No. It is Green Canyon. Green Canyon. Their band's good. Good. So we'll try to have them out. And

if you need representative and and senators Yes. Emails, we can certainly share that with you. Thank you. It's all good.

the numbers. I have tons of band kids, so I I love the band. There you go. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you, Tyler. Thank you for coming up, and

enjoy Cache Valley as stop and Hard not to enjoy. Well, if you're gonna spend money, go go to Maverick. Exactly. We can do that. Or you can buy a car. So We can do that. Thank you. Alright. Thank you. The next item is to consider signing an agreement with a trust bill pay for utilities. I know count Marcus, you explained this a little bit because of we really didn't have good interface between different network systems, and this will give us that. So go ahead. Yeah. So just to recap,

we're not proposing this to save money. It's gonna actually end up costing the city a fair amount more money. We're proposing it because the quality of life features for our residents and the transparency in the billing and the coordination between our billing software and this proposed change make it well worth the additional expense. There was a question brought up last time about possibly using it for mobile payments, you know, something like a a replacement for a Venmo or a PayPal. There is an a screenshot of an email in the box describing that, yes, they do offer that feature, and the city could use that for something like city celebration for the youth council so that any payments we receive from those events could be integrated directly into our accounting systems.

That's awesome. Yeah. That's nice feature.

That's I think good. My my only question, and I failed, I think they asked two weeks ago, did we look at other options? I mean, this is expensive. I'm I'm okay with it because it does the right thing. But I'm just wondering if there were other Yes. Options, and we kinda narrowed it down to this one.

So, Don, you may know this better than I do, but I believe that Colette we I gave Colette and Melissa the assignment a year ago to start figuring out ways that we can make the billing better because we're getting a lot of complaints from people that it just people just were upset about all sorts of things. I believe in their process, they just they met and looked at several different softwares, and this was the one that rose to the top as the best option.

And is it true this is this the one that North Logan uses?

There's five or six cities in the Valley that use this one. Okay. So it's My house down in Hiram, this this is how we signed up for utilities is with this program. I Okay. Field uses them. Okay. They're very popular option in the Valley.

Use them. Okay. Okay.

Thank you. So I'm seeing that it costs about 30,000 and more per year. Do we have that in the budget?

Yes. We will We have we have to make that room. We will have to make room that in the budget. But Depends on what you don't want in the budget.

But it really not pushing up, but compared to the product we have, I mean, they're not even they're not even in the same ballpark. You know, they're it's

If you're paying $40 a month for some kind of software

It basically allows us Yeah. To run somebody's credit card. Yeah. It I don't know. Anyway, this other one is going to do the entire billing process. You we they won't even be calling Hyde Park anymore to talk about their utility billing. It'll be all done through express bill pay. The the savings is in our help. Yeah. Right. It's gonna That's how I see it. Back

into the things that we care about

and not babysitting the payment system doing it three times every Between Then it will different staff members, we're going through ten to twenty hours a month transposing all of these numbers and then the errors that they're trying to find the pennies that we have to have a balance out. We're Sometimes it's ten to twenty hours a week. So so we'll have to find more things for Colette to do. I'm worried.

Plenty of things for everyone. Yeah. So I think it's a good step because then it preps us for we know we're growing. You know? We we see the development happening and that this is just preparing us to take that on in an easier fashion.

Yeah. I think it's So before you would be to consider signing, that would take a motion for us to enter that agreement.

I move that we accept this

proposal. Got a motion from Kurt and a second from Tiffany to approve signing an agreement with express bill paid for the utilities. Any more discussion? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any approve disapprove with nay. Motion carries four zero. Next item is consider a letter giving approval for work on the trails. If you recall, Tiffany has gone out, and we we did go with a bid,

and it's the right bid. Well, we're not Free. Free. Yeah. I was gonna say

We're saving the money right there. Yeah. Good with it. Good with it. I'm just saying you get a call. I'm just

Are you guys okay with the letter? Letter I wanna make it through this we have. We're gonna put on city letterhead for you. We just didn't wrote it, but We didn't quite have the time to do that for you today, but that's the plan to get this on for

you. Liability for injury. They assume that. I imagine they have their own insurance coverage and things like that. But Yeah. We just I I had a letter from Draper and

Aramat. I can't remember. But they were all more basic than this. Like, this has more detail than their letter, so they just need permission to be on the land. And, Neil Ethington, who has been the contact working with these guys, said put it because I had put it from June 1 until October 31, and he said, but they start in Maine. If they don't have projects, they can come earlier, plus dedicated time to help us execute as much of the trail as possible. So we bump that date to May 1. Yeah. I I don't care. We can dump bump it to tomorrow when the price was right. I think they start in May, so we just So at their start date. May 1. K? I just wanna say thank you, Tiffany, and kudos for all your hard work to acquire this. Well, this is I'll second that. Mayor has been in this discussion. Neil has been deriving this. This has been a group effort from people, so I'll pass that along.

Just make sure that we that I I think it's some of the trails that we had cut before were cut specifically for hiking and not biking, and let's make sure that this is That's what yes. If you do a if you do a biking, then it's good for hiking. If you do it only for hiking, that's not good for biking. And so and that's why we put in there that there is also

related improvements so they can do some improvements on the North Side to to existing so are anywhere up there that's on our land, if they're like, hey. We have time and this needs to be fixed, they'll fix it or they'll improve it. Absolutely. And it won't cost us there. Will they be falling off everything that they cut? I'll have to find out. Or will they make a pile and we need to put it up with the truck and haul it, which

is Okay. Yeah. And maybe we just rent shred it for a weekend and shred everything

and put it around that. We could put it in our compost for our community garden.

Your garden's not gonna be near big enough with No. It's not.

Mayor. Carries four zero. Quick point of clarification. So we're gonna put this on letterhead, but you'll have to tell us where to send it because this doesn't say where to send it. It doesn't have an address on it because I did not know the address when I read it. You're right. I'll get you the address. In tomorrow and Yes. Figure out where to send it.

Council, the next item on the agenda is to consider reapproving a resolution 24 dash 21, a resolution expressing Hyde Park City Council's approval to adjust the common boundary with North Logan. This has to do with the property on on 7th East and 6th South that North Logan could not get you sewer utilities too, and so we accepted to have that adjusted in. It kind of has hung up, and people have been building their houses, wanting to move in, and they can't get billing and everything straightened around. So we want to reapprove this and make sure that it gets to the lieutenant governor's office for approval.

Yep. So the council already approved this back in 2024. We had a public hearing. Kinda like there was any comment at the public hearing. So all we're asking for is just recertify the vote so we can turn this back into the state and make and then it's cart current, and they can get it processed ASAP.

So we approved it you approved it a year ago, but it never was applied or went into effect or something. So now we are reapproving it so it can't I I Yeah. I'm not gonna point I'm not gonna point fingers

because it's a debate between bureaucracy. Everybody on whose fault it was that it got dropped. It got dropped. And so now to fix it Got it. Okay. The process is get this reapproved, get it resubmitted to the state, and then supposedly, we that will allow our new newest residents to finish up their Yeah. Stuff they need to be successful

residents of Has North Logan approved it in their last one, or is that next month next week?

I called their city administrator yesterday, and he said he's gonna do his best to get on their agenda for tonight. I don't know if that happened or not.

Name? Or their next their next agenda. They need their first, third, third, second, and fourth. Okay.

today, and she's got a final version that she's gonna give to me. And we're gonna mess with it and hopefully have it ready for a presentation in May. Do you, as a council, want to see it first and talk about it first, or should we just throw it out there for the public comment? Let's well, I I think

get it to the council in as rough a form the numbers. The chargemanship doesn't have to be great Mhmm. So that they could start digesting and looking at what the impact of everything is going to be. And I'm sure she has the percentage. This is there is a reward for the lower water users and

Right. But you you can't really discuss it unless we're at a meeting. Right. So do you want the first meeting to just be Okay. Here it is as a discussion item, and then we do a public hearing, or do you want to

just dive right into the public input? As quickly as possible. It's been came home today and said somebody was watering their lawn and was having a green screen feed. There's so many people. I was surprised that I got complaints about the water pressure. I reached out to Marcus, and, like, whole neighborhoods are watering their lawn already. And I'm like, it's not that early, but they are. It's been happening for weeks. It's been happening for weeks. Spring this week. Weekend. By the autumn.

Yeah. Because I won't go on record and say it.

I don't think it hurts to have I mean, they're gonna we'll know how angry they are because they'll all show up at Our last water rate public hearing, we had a line outdoor. They'll all tell us they're angry if we're raising the rates. But also Mhmm.

Well, I think we'll I think we will be raising the rates, but I think we'll maybe should consider lowering the rates.

For So For the same time, and we'll only hear from the ones that are being raised, but it's the base rate. The short version of what's Colette is presenting is, I believe, it keeps the lowest users the same or even offers them a discount, and then it increases the highest users who in turn have the highest use produce the highest wear and tear on the pipes. And so that's why theirs is getting adjusted

upwards. And I think Colette's been pretty thoughtful. I mean, I visited with her in her office about how she's tried to adjust those, what's the right word, tiers? Yes. I think she's been pretty thoughtful about it. Yeah. Well and if we even keep the lowest one where it is, that's a reward too. We

we're raising rates, but we're not But not raising yours. Yeah. But, I mean, we need to not just raise rates to raise rates. I mean Sure. You know, it's at at some point, you know, if we're raising these and then do we lower some and and why are we raising them? And I think that all needs to be part of the conversation.

Part of the conversation. There's only a couple of reasons a few reasons per state code why a city should be raising their rates. One of them is to generate revenue, which is gonna be one of the components that we're proposing because our water fund is getting more and more slim every year, and it does not seem to be recovering. We're not generating the revenue that we need to accomplish the city council's priorities, such as saving up a rainy day fund for large scale pipe replacements. We know the infrastructure is aging. Another component is conservation, but we can't specifically tie water rate to conservation unless we have a specific conservation plan that complies with the state codes that let you do that. And so, primarily, what we're gonna be presenting is a water rate that will, yeah, generate revenue for our water fund.

The the the big thing that we spoke about this week on the budget this morning this morning Mhmm. Is, you know, as we've said in the past when we do overlays of road, I wanna have an assessment of the water and sewer lines underneath that road so that we don't have to cut it five times after we put down a new road to repair an old water line. Well, we're not saving money to replace those water lines. We are stagnant. We're covering our costs to provide water right now. That's what we're doing. We're not covering to replace infrastructure. By the way, all of this area, including that my house was put in forty years ago. Thirty nineties. In yeah. Early nineties. Thirty years ago. So that we're not saving to do what we should be saving to do. So

minutes or recordings or firsthand accounts of how the last one went, feel free to stop by my office, and I can give you a really good idea of what you can expect to hear. So you're not traumatized?

The No. It's just seared into my brain. The real thing is is when you vote for a a rate increase, you're voting your own self. You know? Yeah. You get that same thing. And like I tell you, on the property tax rate increases or staying or anything like that, any fees No. If it's a dime, you're gonna get the beading. You're gonna get the same beading for a dollar too. So it's this is the front floor of the residence, and this is where they get it. So I've received some of those anonymous letters in the mail. Yeah. It's a it's it's okay. That's that's why we banned for the prestigious

positions. But we have to be proactive to Yeah. Yeah. Ensure that we provide our city what we said we would do. We need to get some education

material for the next city newsletter because it'll get out there before city council meeting in May. So alright. Stephanie?

Oh oh, we had a a successful Easter hunt on Saturday. That's so fun. We had about a 140 kids. That's awesome. 130 kids. Yeah. That's awesome. And it was fun, and the weather cooperated. So that's it.

Okay. Tiffany?

I met today with our community garden. We're in the process of making plans for a service day. It's gonna be April 18. We've reached out to some of the clubs at the high school for participation. Anyways, we've reached out to several groups. I need to talk to you guys. Do we wanna move we can move those rocks as part of that service day. Is there somewhere you want them, or should we pile them up? I don't know. I need to come in and talk to the city center person and say what where should we put them? Because we can still use them, like, on the edges of the park, but I don't know if it will take all of them. But

Yeah. We we wanna keep them

we'll talk about it. We can talk about that. And then what else was I thinking? I don't know. Next front porch? Yeah. I I'm having struggle getting people to come up to the planning meeting. And so at right now, it's me or it's not happening. So I'm hoping that that we'll hold one in May when I don't know. Maybe I will recruit new members to help plan it. K.

Kurt, good. Good.

Hey. Your mention of rocks reminded me of something. We, again, have rocks all down to the new basement. Kids keep They keep throwing them down there. Mhmm. It's it seems like it's getting worse. Not sure why.

I think for those on the police commission, I think this could be utilized at the same thing. Or is that what's the annual training we have to do?

They open the boat and we do that. Oh, that's it. Never mind.

Can I ask

when is this park supposed to be finished? The goal is to have it all open and ready to go by Memorial Day. Now with the water situation being what it is, that's a big asterisk. We're gonna have the playground open by then. We're not sure if the landscaping's gonna be ready because we're kinda struggling to find some sod right now, but

playground will be open. Okay. We're waiting for the company to come in and solve the tiles.

Right. I just wanted to, from our Healthy High Park committee, coordinate because I think we'll do, like, a grand opening with our new city park and try and push our every kid outdoor. We're looking at doing an event tie to the park. Mhmm. So I just wanted a target date that we could be planning towards, and I'll give you more details.

I sent you that get healthy, the next person. They're changing

how they qualify how you qualify for the designation. So I've they asked us to take a survey. Just forwarded that onto you. So Maybe once the park opens, we'll see less rocks thrown down. Yeah. Maybe that'll be somewhere to play. Then they can go play instead of throwing rocks.

With that, we have one item that we want to go into closed session on that has to do with one of the topics that we are allowed to go was purchase or sale of real property pending litigation. So what we'll do at this time is take a motion to go into closed session. We will once we do, we'll turn off and restart the recording. And afterwards, we will have a motion to come out and and motion come out and go back into city council with stop the meeting and restart again and then have a motion to adjourn. So I need the motion to go into closed session. I'll make that motion. Got a motion from Stephanie. Second. A second from Kurt. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed with aye?