08 03 2021 Council Meeting
2026-04-10
Live in this great land of America where we have freedoms, where we're protected by our armed forces and our our local police departments and sheriff's office. We appreciate that, and we cherish that and wanna thank thee for that blessing as we now convene this meeting and this this opportunity to to listen to different people share things in their heart that will understand and that will be able to do the right thing and do the fair thing. We pray for our chairman as she does conducting of this, this meeting that things will be smooth and that she'll be able to think clearly and understand. We say these things humbly in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Live in this great land of America where we have freedoms, where we're protected by our armed forces and our our local police departments and sheriff's office. We appreciate that, and we cherish that and wanna thank thee for that blessing as we now convene this meeting and this this opportunity to to listen to different people share things in their heart that will understand and that will be able to do the right thing and do the fair thing. We pray for our chairman as she does conducting of this, this meeting that things will be smooth and that she'll be able to think clearly and understand. We say these things humbly in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Oh, we're gonna do the pledge. You Yeah. Oh, we got a pledge. Everybody stand. Please follow the pledge after me. I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Oh, we're gonna do the pledge. You Yeah. Oh, we got a pledge. Everybody stand. Please follow the pledge after me. I pledge allegiance to the flag of The United States Of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Courtney, thank you. I appreciate you jumping in to do that. Paul wasn't here. Thanks, Bryson. Appreciate that. Okay. Our first item of business, and I apologize for adding this on, but it was time was of the essence. We've been asked by USAC, which is the Utah State Association of County Councils and Commissions, which is a division of the Utah Association of Counties, to consider passing a resolution opposing, president Biden's nomination of Tracy Stone Manning, as the national director of the BLM, the Bureau of Land Management, not to allow any confusion there. And so that resolution should be in your packets, counsel, and I included in that packet, I also put what's called the Merkley letter. This letter was sent to the National Energy and Natural Resources Committee in Washington DC by the person the officer who investigated miss Stone Manning originally for her involvement in placing pieces of metal in trees so that they would cause problems when they were to try to cut be cut down and she absolutely was involved in that. And so I hope you had a chance to read that letter. This gentleman mentioned that during his investigation, he received death threats and he quit because of it. So I personally, I I believe what he says because I don't see why he would wanna come forward under those conditions unless he was deeply concerned and wanted to speak the truth. In addition to that, the resolution mentions, miss Stone Manning's, a recent tweet, that she did. This was 09/15/2020. I looked up her tweet. It is there. She mentions, an article done by her husband Richard Manning in Harper's in 2018. And in that article, he calls for the solution to houses and the interface is to let them burn. And he also says, quote, there's a root and satisfying justice in burning down the house of someone who builds in the forest. And this is a a copy of of that article, and she said, not a bad time to revisit this piece from my husband Richard Manning from February ago. Clary on call. So those are some things to consider. I don't know what your feelings are on this, but we'll entertain any motion or discussion.
Courtney, thank you. I appreciate you jumping in to do that. Paul wasn't here. Thanks, Bryson. Appreciate that. Okay. Our first item of business, and I apologize for adding this on, but it was time was of the essence. We've been asked by USAC, which is the Utah State Association of County Councils and Commissions, which is a division of the Utah Association of Counties, to consider passing a resolution opposing, president Biden's nomination of Tracy Stone Manning, as the national director of the BLM, the Bureau of Land Management, not to allow any confusion there. And so that resolution should be in your packets, counsel, and I included in that packet, I also put what's called the Merkley letter. This letter was sent to the National Energy and Natural Resources Committee in Washington DC by the person the officer who investigated miss Stone Manning originally for her involvement in placing pieces of metal in trees so that they would cause problems when they were to try to cut be cut down and she absolutely was involved in that. And so I hope you had a chance to read that letter. This gentleman mentioned that during his investigation, he received death threats and he quit because of it. So I personally, I I believe what he says because I don't see why he would wanna come forward under those conditions unless he was deeply concerned and wanted to speak the truth. In addition to that, the resolution mentions, miss Stone Manning's, a recent tweet, that she did. This was 09/15/2020. I looked up her tweet. It is there. She mentions, an article done by her husband Richard Manning in Harper's in 2018. And in that article, he calls for the solution to houses and the interface is to let them burn. And he also says, quote, there's a root and satisfying justice in burning down the house of someone who builds in the forest. And this is a a copy of of that article, and she said, not a bad time to revisit this piece from my husband Richard Manning from February ago. Clary on call. So those are some things to consider. I don't know what your feelings are on this, but we'll entertain any motion or discussion.
Madam chairperson, I feel not for discussion, but I I feel very strongly also that we need to pass this resolution. It's not a motion yet, but I've also done a lot of research and I've even received some about three different emails from people that pressed to vote against it. And I checked back into their links and they are also linking to checked back into their links, and they are also linked into those ecoterrorist organizations that, she was also affiliated with. And these these are not people that we need in charge of, you know, for multi use lands we need in this state. And I think it shows a lot of solidarity, for the state and also us all working together for us to support rural counties, as well as, you know, all counties in this position. So, therefore, I would move that we pass or can we pass resolution? Mhmm. K. I move that we, pass resolution twenty twenty one dash 17. Second.
Madam chairperson, I feel not for discussion, but I I feel very strongly also that we need to pass this resolution. It's not a motion yet, but I've also done a lot of research and I've even received some about three different emails from people that pressed to vote against it. And I checked back into their links and they are also linking to checked back into their links, and they are also linked into those ecoterrorist organizations that, she was also affiliated with. And these these are not people that we need in charge of, you know, for multi use lands we need in this state. And I think it shows a lot of solidarity, for the state and also us all working together for us to support rural counties, as well as, you know, all counties in this position. So, therefore, I would move that we pass or can we pass resolution? Mhmm. K. I move that we, pass resolution twenty twenty one dash 17. Second.
Can I say something? Yes. I I can remember when this all came out years ago, and my family worked in the lumber industry, and when we started hearing about these kinds of things it was very upsetting to us. I I don't understand why someone would think it is okay. This is all from a personal point of view. It would be okay to do something like that and then not and then almost be flippant about if somebody gets killed sawing down those trees. And so I I totally agree with what Davis said. We need to pass this resolution.
Can I say something? Yes. I I can remember when this all came out years ago, and my family worked in the lumber industry, and when we started hearing about these kinds of things it was very upsetting to us. I I don't understand why someone would think it is okay. This is all from a personal point of view. It would be okay to do something like that and then not and then almost be flippant about if somebody gets killed sawing down those trees. And so I I totally agree with what Davis said. We need to pass this resolution.
Madam chairperson Yes. I've been down to the Kaibab Plateau and been out and done appraisal work and where we've looked at trees and seen trees that still had the spikes put in them and then talked to people down in in Kanab that were at the lumber yards, and their stories of family members that were injured of exploding saws, due to those trees. And so then they had to go to mag magnetic and, metal detectors on and every tree before it's cut down, They had a totally it was just amazing what they had to go through because of practices and not just for the trees, but several other things. So again, I encourage us to pass this.
Madam chairperson Yes. I've been down to the Kaibab Plateau and been out and done appraisal work and where we've looked at trees and seen trees that still had the spikes put in them and then talked to people down in in Kanab that were at the lumber yards, and their stories of family members that were injured of exploding saws, due to those trees. And so then they had to go to mag magnetic and, metal detectors on and every tree before it's cut down, They had a totally it was just amazing what they had to go through because of practices and not just for the trees, but several other things. So again, I encourage us to pass this.
K. It's been moved and seconded to pass resolution twenty twenty one dash 17, a resolution opposing president Biden's nomination of Tracy Stone Manning as director of the BLM. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, we'll go ahead and vote. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. We'll send this we'll send this to both of our senators, and I have their contact information. Thank you. Okay. Now for the moment we've all been waiting for. We'll move on to item number three, our Cache County attorney candidate interviews, and let me talk about how, this will go. So you will each candidate what let me start here. I apologize. Usually, we go in what's called ballot order, but I thought I'd mix things up a bit and just if you would write the the names of our candidates on these papers. See, there's nothing else in here and she has three papers. We'll just draw out the order, for, how this will go tonight. And so what will happen is we'll ask the two to be excused and we we figured you could probably go up and hang out in the county attorney's office because you can get in there and it's far enough away. So if you wouldn't mind doing that and when the first person is done, we'll send them to get the next person and so forth. So that will that will be the process. We'll start with your statement and, Janine, is timing and start with your statement, and Janine is timing in three minutes. I told you guys three minutes. Right? K. Three minutes, and then we have some questions here. I'll pass these on. And these questions have been compiled by Barbara Tidwell and I based on things that some people's some of the elected officials sent us, so we compiled four questions. I'll ask these four questions if there's any follow-up questions from counsel. Counsel, go ahead and and ask at that time, and then if there's any additional questions at the at the end for that candidate, we can add those in as well if you desire. So, candidates, do you have any questions with those instructions? I wanna make sure I told you everything. If so, raise your hand. Okay. This is awesome. I explained stuff to attorneys. Cool. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll have you down the mountain. I'll I'll hold it. This is for the first one. The first person that we'll interview is Dane Murray. Okay. Let me draw the second name, please. And the second will be, Jake and that would leave the last one would be John Lukey. So so Dane, if you will stay and Jake and John, if you would please make your way to the county attorney's office and we'll send Dane or someone else if we need to to run and get you when it's your turn. So thank you. They're being sequestered. They're They're sequestered. They're sequestered.
K. It's been moved and seconded to pass resolution twenty twenty one dash 17, a resolution opposing president Biden's nomination of Tracy Stone Manning as director of the BLM. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, we'll go ahead and vote. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries unanimously. We'll send this we'll send this to both of our senators, and I have their contact information. Thank you. Okay. Now for the moment we've all been waiting for. We'll move on to item number three, our Cache County attorney candidate interviews, and let me talk about how, this will go. So you will each candidate what let me start here. I apologize. Usually, we go in what's called ballot order, but I thought I'd mix things up a bit and just if you would write the the names of our candidates on these papers. See, there's nothing else in here and she has three papers. We'll just draw out the order, for, how this will go tonight. And so what will happen is we'll ask the two to be excused and we we figured you could probably go up and hang out in the county attorney's office because you can get in there and it's far enough away. So if you wouldn't mind doing that and when the first person is done, we'll send them to get the next person and so forth. So that will that will be the process. We'll start with your statement and, Janine, is timing and start with your statement, and Janine is timing in three minutes. I told you guys three minutes. Right? K. Three minutes, and then we have some questions here. I'll pass these on. And these questions have been compiled by Barbara Tidwell and I based on things that some people's some of the elected officials sent us, so we compiled four questions. I'll ask these four questions if there's any follow-up questions from counsel. Counsel, go ahead and and ask at that time, and then if there's any additional questions at the at the end for that candidate, we can add those in as well if you desire. So, candidates, do you have any questions with those instructions? I wanna make sure I told you everything. If so, raise your hand. Okay. This is awesome. I explained stuff to attorneys. Cool. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll have you down the mountain. I'll I'll hold it. This is for the first one. The first person that we'll interview is Dane Murray. Okay. Let me draw the second name, please. And the second will be, Jake and that would leave the last one would be John Lukey. So so Dane, if you will stay and Jake and John, if you would please make your way to the county attorney's office and we'll send Dane or someone else if we need to to run and get you when it's your turn. So thank you. They're being sequestered. They're They're sequestered. They're sequestered.
I didn't know any, like, TV shows, like, to call or I would have. Come on down. Yeah. Come on down. I didn't know who was in charge of those shows or I would have got a special booth with the headphones and everything. Okay. Well, okay. And if you wanna come on up, come to the mic and Janine is right next to you so she can tell you when it's thirty seconds and then she'll let you know when your time is up.
I didn't know any, like, TV shows, like, to call or I would have. Come on down. Yeah. Come on down. I didn't know who was in charge of those shows or I would have got a special booth with the headphones and everything. Okay. Well, okay. And if you wanna come on up, come to the mic and Janine is right next to you so she can tell you when it's thirty seconds and then she'll let you know when your time is up.
Well, thank you to the council. I'm I'm happy to be here today. My name is Dane Murray. For those of you that don't know me, I think a lot of you do know me in here. My family's in here. I've worked at the county attorney's office my whole career. I started in this office during my first year of law school, and I've worked there ever since. Currently, I'm assigned to the Violence Against Women Act prosecutions. So that includes felony, child abuse, felony domestic violence, and all sex crimes involving women and children. That's something that I I take extremely seriously. It's a it's a big responsibility to be in that that position in our office. That's the type of cases that that take the biggest toll on the victims and on the families. And I I think that's prepared me well to be the county attorney. I wouldn't be standing up here. I wouldn't have put my name in the ring if I didn't think it was best for Cache County and for this office, for me to be the county attorney. That's something that I I've watched James Swink for the last six years as I've worked in the office. I understand the burden of being the county attorney. I understand the responsibility that comes with that, both to the people of the county who are victims of crime and to the rest of the citizens, of how we respond to civil liability that arises within the county, how we prevent the county from having to pay out pay out civil damages to avoid those type of issues with litigation. That's something that that I take very seriously. Coming from a criminal background, I know that's gonna be a a issue that I'm gonna have to learn a lot about very quickly to be county attorney, but we have some great people in our civil department. The county council's been, kind enough to give us another civil attorney. And I'm excited for those the opportunity to grow our department and make sure that the county is voiding liability, that the county is planning for the future as far as how are we going going to grow smartly and not infringe on people's rights when we're we're preventing some of the the things that we don't want to have happen when we're growing. We we don't want to pass any any ordinances. We don't want to do anything like that that's going to cause a lawsuit in the future. So that's something I take very seriously. I appreciate the time that the the council's given me leading up to this, and I appreciate everyone that came out here, especially my family. And I'm happy and, excited to answer these questions despite what I saw last week. I know you guys had asked hard questions, but I think I'm ready.
Well, thank you to the council. I'm I'm happy to be here today. My name is Dane Murray. For those of you that don't know me, I think a lot of you do know me in here. My family's in here. I've worked at the county attorney's office my whole career. I started in this office during my first year of law school, and I've worked there ever since. Currently, I'm assigned to the Violence Against Women Act prosecutions. So that includes felony, child abuse, felony domestic violence, and all sex crimes involving women and children. That's something that I I take extremely seriously. It's a it's a big responsibility to be in that that position in our office. That's the type of cases that that take the biggest toll on the victims and on the families. And I I think that's prepared me well to be the county attorney. I wouldn't be standing up here. I wouldn't have put my name in the ring if I didn't think it was best for Cache County and for this office, for me to be the county attorney. That's something that I I've watched James Swink for the last six years as I've worked in the office. I understand the burden of being the county attorney. I understand the responsibility that comes with that, both to the people of the county who are victims of crime and to the rest of the citizens, of how we respond to civil liability that arises within the county, how we prevent the county from having to pay out pay out civil damages to avoid those type of issues with litigation. That's something that that I take very seriously. Coming from a criminal background, I know that's gonna be a a issue that I'm gonna have to learn a lot about very quickly to be county attorney, but we have some great people in our civil department. The county council's been, kind enough to give us another civil attorney. And I'm excited for those the opportunity to grow our department and make sure that the county is voiding liability, that the county is planning for the future as far as how are we going going to grow smartly and not infringe on people's rights when we're we're preventing some of the the things that we don't want to have happen when we're growing. We we don't want to pass any any ordinances. We don't want to do anything like that that's going to cause a lawsuit in the future. So that's something I take very seriously. I appreciate the time that the the council's given me leading up to this, and I appreciate everyone that came out here, especially my family. And I'm happy and, excited to answer these questions despite what I saw last week. I know you guys had asked hard questions, but I think I'm ready.
Alright. Thank you, Dane. Let's start Barbara, do you wanna start question number one and then we can just have you guys ask in succession. So Carl, you'll ask number two and Gordy number three and Dave Erickson number four when we get to that point?
Alright. Thank you, Dane. Let's start Barbara, do you wanna start question number one and then we can just have you guys ask in succession. So Carl, you'll ask number two and Gordy number three and Dave Erickson number four when we get to that point?
Alright, Dane. Thanks for being here. I know this is not a kind of a scary thing, but we're we're we don't fight that hard. So k. What is the role of the county attorney, and what is your vision and your goals for that office?
Alright, Dane. Thanks for being here. I know this is not a kind of a scary thing, but we're we're we don't fight that hard. So k. What is the role of the county attorney, and what is your vision and your goals for that office?
So starting with what I believe the the first job of the county attorney is, and that's to be the chief law enforcement official for Cache County. When you look at the the composition of our office, the county attorney supervises nine criminal prosecutors, I I believe five, legal assistants whose primary duties are related to to the criminal side. He's also over the Children's Justice Center and Victim Services. That's that's that's a lot of employees on the criminal side that the county attorney supervises. He also sets the policy for how Cache County is going to respond to crime. How are we going to prosecute crime? You've you've seen it in other counties in Utah. The county attorney or the district attorney can have a huge impact on how law enforcement responds to crime if they know that the the prosecutor's office isn't gonna take something seriously, if they're not gonna prosecute something. That changes how officers weigh their responsibilities. Are we gonna respond to this? I I know, Tara Warner in our office, just recently, her daughter had her car burglarized and her backpack stolen down in Salt Lake County, and it was, I think, six hours before they even had an officer call them back. That's something I want to make sure never happens in Cache County. Then the second part of that is helping the county avoid civil liability, advising the counsel, advising all the elected officials to other department heads. The county attorney's office the county attorney doesn't need to be the expert in everything. I think it's important to surround yourself with other people who are experts that you can rely on for their advice. You can rely on to advise the county attorney, but the county attorney is gonna have the final say. So you have to be able to trust those people, but make those final decisions. There's employment issues that arise with with different employees if there whether that be an investigation into wrongdoing, a termination. There's road issues that arise. I know the Cache County Road Department maintains about 600 miles of paved and unpaved roads in the county. Those are issues that the county attorney's office has to deal with. So I think it's important to have someone who understands the criminal side really well but is able to learn and adapt and be able to advise on the civil side and make those final decisions relying on the advice of those in their office that are experts in those fields.
So starting with what I believe the the first job of the county attorney is, and that's to be the chief law enforcement official for Cache County. When you look at the the composition of our office, the county attorney supervises nine criminal prosecutors, I I believe five, legal assistants whose primary duties are related to to the criminal side. He's also over the Children's Justice Center and Victim Services. That's that's that's a lot of employees on the criminal side that the county attorney supervises. He also sets the policy for how Cache County is going to respond to crime. How are we going to prosecute crime? You've you've seen it in other counties in Utah. The county attorney or the district attorney can have a huge impact on how law enforcement responds to crime if they know that the the prosecutor's office isn't gonna take something seriously, if they're not gonna prosecute something. That changes how officers weigh their responsibilities. Are we gonna respond to this? I I know, Tara Warner in our office, just recently, her daughter had her car burglarized and her backpack stolen down in Salt Lake County, and it was, I think, six hours before they even had an officer call them back. That's something I want to make sure never happens in Cache County. Then the second part of that is helping the county avoid civil liability, advising the counsel, advising all the elected officials to other department heads. The county attorney's office the county attorney doesn't need to be the expert in everything. I think it's important to surround yourself with other people who are experts that you can rely on for their advice. You can rely on to advise the county attorney, but the county attorney is gonna have the final say. So you have to be able to trust those people, but make those final decisions. There's employment issues that arise with with different employees if there whether that be an investigation into wrongdoing, a termination. There's road issues that arise. I know the Cache County Road Department maintains about 600 miles of paved and unpaved roads in the county. Those are issues that the county attorney's office has to deal with. So I think it's important to have someone who understands the criminal side really well but is able to learn and adapt and be able to advise on the civil side and make those final decisions relying on the advice of those in their office that are experts in those fields.
Okay. Dane, question number two. There are basically two parts of the county attorney's office, advising county officials and prosecuting criminals. Please explain how you would achieve balance in meeting both the criminal and civil duties. You you alluded to that somewhat in the answers to your first question, but is there anything else you'd like to add? Yeah.
Okay. Dane, question number two. There are basically two parts of the county attorney's office, advising county officials and prosecuting criminals. Please explain how you would achieve balance in meeting both the criminal and civil duties. You you alluded to that somewhat in the answers to your first question, but is there anything else you'd like to add? Yeah.
So so like I said, there's there's nine prosecutors in the office. As far as the my philosophy as county attorney, I I like to lead by example. So I would like to remain involved somewhat on the prosecution side. If there's a a case that's important to the county, to the office, I wanna be involved in trying that case. But I understand that as the county attorney, I can't devote as much time to prosecuting individual cases as I have as a line prosecutor. So that's that's something I'm gonna have to I wanna be remain involved in the the criminal aspect, understand what's going on in our county as far as law enforcement goes, and what prosecutions are happening in our office. I think it's important that the county attorney knows what's going on. That being said, I have like I said earlier, you have to make those final calls on the on the civil aspects. I think it's really important. We have a a chief civil deputy. I think it's important to meet with him regularly, to know what's going on in the office civilly. I think it's important for the county attorney to be at county council meetings, even if he's not the one advising the county council to be here and understand what's happening in the county. So that's something that you have to divide your time. You have to pick and choose the the different responsibilities within the office and how you're going to to manage those. But I think that there needs to be a balance where you're still involved in the criminal side, but know what's going on on the civil side. You know what's going on, in Salt Lake, and you're able to go represent the county and advocate our positions at the legislature. And that's that's important on both the the criminal side. James did a great job at doing that. He was down there, and he he made a big difference for law enforcement, for victims, and that's something that I think is important for the county attorney to continue doing. I also think it's important to watch what legislation is gonna affect our county civilly and be involved in going down and speaking to that, talking to to our legislators, making sure that that we are getting our voice heard down in Salt Lake because there are there's a lot of representatives from Salt Lake County. And if we're not we're not down there on top of it, we end up with laws that hurt us up here because of what they wanna do. Thank you. You're welcome.
So so like I said, there's there's nine prosecutors in the office. As far as the my philosophy as county attorney, I I like to lead by example. So I would like to remain involved somewhat on the prosecution side. If there's a a case that's important to the county, to the office, I wanna be involved in trying that case. But I understand that as the county attorney, I can't devote as much time to prosecuting individual cases as I have as a line prosecutor. So that's that's something I'm gonna have to I wanna be remain involved in the the criminal aspect, understand what's going on in our county as far as law enforcement goes, and what prosecutions are happening in our office. I think it's important that the county attorney knows what's going on. That being said, I have like I said earlier, you have to make those final calls on the on the civil aspects. I think it's really important. We have a a chief civil deputy. I think it's important to meet with him regularly, to know what's going on in the office civilly. I think it's important for the county attorney to be at county council meetings, even if he's not the one advising the county council to be here and understand what's happening in the county. So that's something that you have to divide your time. You have to pick and choose the the different responsibilities within the office and how you're going to to manage those. But I think that there needs to be a balance where you're still involved in the criminal side, but know what's going on on the civil side. You know what's going on, in Salt Lake, and you're able to go represent the county and advocate our positions at the legislature. And that's that's important on both the the criminal side. James did a great job at doing that. He was down there, and he he made a big difference for law enforcement, for victims, and that's something that I think is important for the county attorney to continue doing. I also think it's important to watch what legislation is gonna affect our county civilly and be involved in going down and speaking to that, talking to to our legislators, making sure that that we are getting our voice heard down in Salt Lake because there are there's a lot of representatives from Salt Lake County. And if we're not we're not down there on top of it, we end up with laws that hurt us up here because of what they wanna do. Thank you. You're welcome.
Question number three, Dane. What are your plans in your current position? You're now on the the side of the the criminal side. What are your plans if you are not selected county attorney?
Question number three, Dane. What are your plans in your current position? You're now on the the side of the the criminal side. What are your plans if you are not selected county attorney?
I would continue working my my caseload. I think those cases are extremely important. I I very much enjoy working those cases. I get to work closely with with victims. I get to work with our victim advocates and with law enforcement officers. It's something I really enjoy. It it's very rewarding. I I can tell you today, I had a a sentencing over in the the district court on probably the worst child abuse case I've ever prosecuted. We went for over an hour. We had the victim's mother, who was also a victim of domestic violence, and four children who these injuries were horrific. I met with them at the CJC last week, got them prepared to be up in front of a judge and face their father who had beat them horribly over years and years and years. And today they all came. I stood in court with them as they addressed their their father and the judge, and the judge followed the state's recommendation and sent this man to prison. That that's something that is extremely rewarding to me, and I I can't see myself walking away from being a prosecutor. That that that's what I I enjoy doing. I wanna be able to help victims, whether it's as county attorney or is it's the Violence Against Women Act prosecuted. That's something that's extremely important to me.
I would continue working my my caseload. I think those cases are extremely important. I I very much enjoy working those cases. I get to work closely with with victims. I get to work with our victim advocates and with law enforcement officers. It's something I really enjoy. It it's very rewarding. I I can tell you today, I had a a sentencing over in the the district court on probably the worst child abuse case I've ever prosecuted. We went for over an hour. We had the victim's mother, who was also a victim of domestic violence, and four children who these injuries were horrific. I met with them at the CJC last week, got them prepared to be up in front of a judge and face their father who had beat them horribly over years and years and years. And today they all came. I stood in court with them as they addressed their their father and the judge, and the judge followed the state's recommendation and sent this man to prison. That that's something that is extremely rewarding to me, and I I can't see myself walking away from being a prosecutor. That that that's what I I enjoy doing. I wanna be able to help victims, whether it's as county attorney or is it's the Violence Against Women Act prosecuted. That's something that's extremely important to me.
Pretty good. What are your thoughts on Utah's criminal justice reform known as Justice Reinvestment Initiative or JRI?
Pretty good. What are your thoughts on Utah's criminal justice reform known as Justice Reinvestment Initiative or JRI?
So that's something our office has been fighting since its its very beginning, something I see every single day, and it's when you talk about criminal justice reform, the JRI, that's how I refer to it, there there was the JRI bill which reclassified a whole bunch of crimes, but that only encompasses a small little bit of what this justice reform has been. There's been changes to the sentencing matrixes and sentencing guidelines. There's been changes to the, the Board of Pardons and how they're they're releasing people. There's been changes to APMP and how they respond as far as collecting restitution for victims, as far as collecting fines and fees. And I think it it's very important that we go and fight those battles and try to roll those back. We've seen a huge increase in crime across the country. It's it's present here in Cache Valley and in Utah too. And it's important that we're down there. We're we're taking that fight to the legislature. We're taking that fight to to really on some of these changes, they were made by our past governor. They were they were changes that through his appointments, and I I think it's important to point that out. I can tell you today on this case that I did, it's a perfect example. For a second degree felony conviction for child abuse, it was based because he didn't have a criminal history before this happened, what our sanity matrix said was presumptive probation for eighteen months with a jail guideline of zero to ninety days. That's what we were up against on second degree felony child abuse. That's unacceptable to me. That's that's something that I think we need to be putting pressure on the legislature to change those NC guidelines, especially on persons' crimes, because what what the matrix is saying and what APMP is being told to recommend doesn't align with with justice, in my opinion. And luckily, on this case, APMP understood how horrific this was, and they deviated and made that recommendation that the state could could use in our recommendation. That gave gave it strength. But I I see it all the time where the recommendation based on the SANSI matrix isn't justice. I think it's important that us as a county, we do what we can both legislatively and just in our office through our office policies. We're gonna take even the smallest crime seriously. We're going to prosecute those crimes because it's important to let people know that in Cache County, we take that seriously. We're we're not gonna let just because it's a a theft of a backpack, we're not just we're not gonna let that go. We're gonna hold you accountable. We're going to we're gonna seek restitution for victims to make them whole. We're gonna seek fines Because, you know what, when someone breaks the law, whether it's a possession of meth or or something else, there's there's a societal cost to that. There's the cost of investigating it.
So that's something our office has been fighting since its its very beginning, something I see every single day, and it's when you talk about criminal justice reform, the JRI, that's how I refer to it, there there was the JRI bill which reclassified a whole bunch of crimes, but that only encompasses a small little bit of what this justice reform has been. There's been changes to the sentencing matrixes and sentencing guidelines. There's been changes to the, the Board of Pardons and how they're they're releasing people. There's been changes to APMP and how they respond as far as collecting restitution for victims, as far as collecting fines and fees. And I think it it's very important that we go and fight those battles and try to roll those back. We've seen a huge increase in crime across the country. It's it's present here in Cache Valley and in Utah too. And it's important that we're down there. We're we're taking that fight to the legislature. We're taking that fight to to really on some of these changes, they were made by our past governor. They were they were changes that through his appointments, and I I think it's important to point that out. I can tell you today on this case that I did, it's a perfect example. For a second degree felony conviction for child abuse, it was based because he didn't have a criminal history before this happened, what our sanity matrix said was presumptive probation for eighteen months with a jail guideline of zero to ninety days. That's what we were up against on second degree felony child abuse. That's unacceptable to me. That's that's something that I think we need to be putting pressure on the legislature to change those NC guidelines, especially on persons' crimes, because what what the matrix is saying and what APMP is being told to recommend doesn't align with with justice, in my opinion. And luckily, on this case, APMP understood how horrific this was, and they deviated and made that recommendation that the state could could use in our recommendation. That gave gave it strength. But I I see it all the time where the recommendation based on the SANSI matrix isn't justice. I think it's important that us as a county, we do what we can both legislatively and just in our office through our office policies. We're gonna take even the smallest crime seriously. We're going to prosecute those crimes because it's important to let people know that in Cache County, we take that seriously. We're we're not gonna let just because it's a a theft of a backpack, we're not just we're not gonna let that go. We're gonna hold you accountable. We're going to we're gonna seek restitution for victims to make them whole. We're gonna seek fines Because, you know what, when someone breaks the law, whether it's a possession of meth or or something else, there's there's a societal cost to that. There's the cost of investigating it.
Thank you. Sorry. Thank you. Thanks, Dane. Okay. Counsel, do you have any other questions?
Thank you. Sorry. Thank you. Thanks, Dane. Okay. Counsel, do you have any other questions?
I I've got one I'd like to just throw out there. Please. Go ahead. Is, the county attorney's office or the county attorney is a leadership and management role also, and and it's not per that office, I hate to say, is not perfect. You may think you guys are, but you're really not. But, and I bring that up for the mere fact, I wanna know what changes and fixes would you make in that office as the the leader and manager of that office.
I I've got one I'd like to just throw out there. Please. Go ahead. Is, the county attorney's office or the county attorney is a leadership and management role also, and and it's not per that office, I hate to say, is not perfect. You may think you guys are, but you're really not. But, and I bring that up for the mere fact, I wanna know what changes and fixes would you make in that office as the the leader and manager of that office.
So so right off the bat, I think there needs to be there needs to be a a civil division. We we have a chief civil deputy. We've kind of left him out there. We're gonna have two attorneys now. I think there needs to be a clear vision of, are we just gonna respond to to issues that arise, or are we gonna prevent those before they arise? So so right off the bat, I would first get another civil attorney hired and then sit down with them and say, okay. I need you to go. We're we're gonna have a new general plan. I know they're they're working on that. Let's go through that. Let's identify some of those issues that are gonna arise in the future and say, how are we as an office going to help achieve the goals of this general plan? Because there are going to be civil issues that arise, we need to be looking into the future. So that's one thing I would, is have a better vision for how we're going to respond to things civilly. Secondly, I think it's important for leadership to be present in the office available, and I I know that that's something James was he was down in Salt Lake a lot. He was doing great work for the county, but that's one complaint that I've heard as I've gone through this process is, am I gonna be able to get ahold of you? That's gonna be something I make a priority that I'm in the office. There's going going to be someone here. I'm gonna be available. I'm gonna set the example. I'm I'll be in court when someone needs me to be in court. I'll be available for for elected officials, for law enforcement when they need someone there. And I think that's the leading by example. If you're at your leaders in the office, there's an expectation that everyone else is in the office working. I think that's important. That that's something that I've noticed. There's I I don't wanna to throw colleagues under the bus or anything, but I I I think it's important that we're all in the office working. We do the people's work, and I think we should be in the office working.
So so right off the bat, I think there needs to be there needs to be a a civil division. We we have a chief civil deputy. We've kind of left him out there. We're gonna have two attorneys now. I think there needs to be a clear vision of, are we just gonna respond to to issues that arise, or are we gonna prevent those before they arise? So so right off the bat, I would first get another civil attorney hired and then sit down with them and say, okay. I need you to go. We're we're gonna have a new general plan. I know they're they're working on that. Let's go through that. Let's identify some of those issues that are gonna arise in the future and say, how are we as an office going to help achieve the goals of this general plan? Because there are going to be civil issues that arise, we need to be looking into the future. So that's one thing I would, is have a better vision for how we're going to respond to things civilly. Secondly, I think it's important for leadership to be present in the office available, and I I know that that's something James was he was down in Salt Lake a lot. He was doing great work for the county, but that's one complaint that I've heard as I've gone through this process is, am I gonna be able to get ahold of you? That's gonna be something I make a priority that I'm in the office. There's going going to be someone here. I'm gonna be available. I'm gonna set the example. I'm I'll be in court when someone needs me to be in court. I'll be available for for elected officials, for law enforcement when they need someone there. And I think that's the leading by example. If you're at your leaders in the office, there's an expectation that everyone else is in the office working. I think that's important. That that's something that I've noticed. There's I I don't wanna to throw colleagues under the bus or anything, but I I I think it's important that we're all in the office working. We do the people's work, and I think we should be in the office working.
Madam chair, I'd like to make a question.
Madam chair, I'd like to make a question.
Dane, as you see the future, supposing you were appointed and that's a possibility good possibility that you could be appointed account attorney. Are you willing to change your thoughts on the civil side in the event that it has been suffering for quite a few years? The criminal side, I think, has been fairly you know, it's always understaffed, but it's been taken care of much better than the civil side. Would you be willing to take a large portion of your time and help the civil side of it?
Dane, as you see the future, supposing you were appointed and that's a possibility good possibility that you could be appointed account attorney. Are you willing to change your thoughts on the civil side in the event that it has been suffering for quite a few years? The criminal side, I think, has been fairly you know, it's always understaffed, but it's been taken care of much better than the civil side. Would you be willing to take a large portion of your time and help the civil side of it?
Yeah. Absolutely. If that I I think as I'm saying, I when we get another civil attorney, hopefully very soon, I want to I wanna divide that work because there's I think there's probably work that needs to be done that that I know John is always working. So that's that's something that I I'll I'm willing to put aside some of that criminal aspect of it, learn the civil side, do whatever work needs to be done. I don't want work not being done by our office. If there's work that needs to be done, It'll get done. And if I have to if I'm the one that that's required to do it, I'll do it. And at the end of the day, the the buck stops with the county attorney. If I'm not willing to go do that work, how can I ask my my deputy county county attorneys? How can I make them be responsible for that if I'm not willing to pitch in and do more than my share?
Yeah. Absolutely. If that I I think as I'm saying, I when we get another civil attorney, hopefully very soon, I want to I wanna divide that work because there's I think there's probably work that needs to be done that that I know John is always working. So that's that's something that I I'll I'm willing to put aside some of that criminal aspect of it, learn the civil side, do whatever work needs to be done. I don't want work not being done by our office. If there's work that needs to be done, It'll get done. And if I have to if I'm the one that that's required to do it, I'll do it. And at the end of the day, the the buck stops with the county attorney. If I'm not willing to go do that work, how can I ask my my deputy county county attorneys? How can I make them be responsible for that if I'm not willing to pitch in and do more than my share?
That that's I guess a follow-up question is is I see that you've got a lot of passion for the criminal side, and I don't see a The civil side is the side that's really hurting in the county. And and I'm just hoping that if you were selected that you would develop the same passion for the civil side. I mean, the county's only done on the civil side the things that they had to that they are forced into doing as far as really going out and doing some interesting offensive work, it's been zero. And
That that's I guess a follow-up question is is I see that you've got a lot of passion for the criminal side, and I don't see a The civil side is the side that's really hurting in the county. And and I'm just hoping that if you were selected that you would develop the same passion for the civil side. I mean, the county's only done on the civil side the things that they had to that they are forced into doing as far as really going out and doing some interesting offensive work, it's been zero. And
I'll tell you, I I am passionate about the criminal side. That's that's what I know. I enjoy helping people. But when you look at the civil side, that's helping people too. Once I'm I'm exposed to that and I I I see what needs to be done, I can assure you that I'll throw myself into that just as I throw myself into any criminal case. That's important work. It affects the daily life of of every citizen of the county when we're talking about some of those civil issues. That's something that affects quality of life here. I I I take that seriously as a public servant, that if it's going to help people's lives, I'll I'll work to get it done.
I'll tell you, I I am passionate about the criminal side. That's that's what I know. I enjoy helping people. But when you look at the civil side, that's helping people too. Once I'm I'm exposed to that and I I I see what needs to be done, I can assure you that I'll throw myself into that just as I throw myself into any criminal case. That's important work. It affects the daily life of of every citizen of the county when we're talking about some of those civil issues. That's something that affects quality of life here. I I I take that seriously as a public servant, that if it's going to help people's lives, I'll I'll work to get it done.
Any further questions, counsel? I have a question.
Any further questions, counsel? I have a question.
So as you look at from the county and we were to say what issue, and I guess you can change that to what problems do we have as a county have in in the law side, and I will also bring law enforcement to that in civil side. How would you address that, and how would you help the county understand that going forward?
So as you look at from the county and we were to say what issue, and I guess you can change that to what problems do we have as a county have in in the law side, and I will also bring law enforcement to that in civil side. How would you address that, and how would you help the county understand that going forward?
So I personally, my my biggest concern for the county going forward is how do we manage growth? That's that's and that affects both the law enforcement side and the civil side. We're going to probably double our population over the next thirty years in Cache County. I I've I've seen the projections. That's that's what they're projecting. So I I think it's important from the county attorney's perspective is we're looking forward. How are we going to handle that as a county? How are we going to manage water, manage roads, manage everything our sheriff's office. If we grow that much, we're going to have to expand the number of deputies to make sure we're keeping the the people safe, having the same amount of deputies on the road proportionate to the population, so our response times aren't falling. We're going to have to work with all of the cities that are growing. I I I look at I live in Hyrum, and I see see all the building, the townhomes, and things going in there. At some point, the the contract of the sheriff's office for the number of deputies is is not gonna be enough to answer the calls in Hiram. That's something that that is gonna affect the law enforcement side. You look at at our water use, imagine in thirty years we're in a drought like this with double the population. That's something that the county as the attorney's office, we need to to look at some of those water right issues. We need to be willing to to go fight when the Wasatch Front comes for water that down that previously has been allocated to us. I I can imagine that happening. I think there's gonna be legal fights involved with that. So I think it's important as the county attorney's office, we project into the future what issues are going to to arise and what can we do now to prevent issues in those within the future, both from the criminal side, making sure we're we're ready to tackle more crime, and from the growth and development side that we're looking at what civil issues could arise and coming up with some type of legal plan to address those.
So I personally, my my biggest concern for the county going forward is how do we manage growth? That's that's and that affects both the law enforcement side and the civil side. We're going to probably double our population over the next thirty years in Cache County. I I've I've seen the projections. That's that's what they're projecting. So I I think it's important from the county attorney's perspective is we're looking forward. How are we going to handle that as a county? How are we going to manage water, manage roads, manage everything our sheriff's office. If we grow that much, we're going to have to expand the number of deputies to make sure we're keeping the the people safe, having the same amount of deputies on the road proportionate to the population, so our response times aren't falling. We're going to have to work with all of the cities that are growing. I I I look at I live in Hyrum, and I see see all the building, the townhomes, and things going in there. At some point, the the contract of the sheriff's office for the number of deputies is is not gonna be enough to answer the calls in Hiram. That's something that that is gonna affect the law enforcement side. You look at at our water use, imagine in thirty years we're in a drought like this with double the population. That's something that the county as the attorney's office, we need to to look at some of those water right issues. We need to be willing to to go fight when the Wasatch Front comes for water that down that previously has been allocated to us. I I can imagine that happening. I think there's gonna be legal fights involved with that. So I think it's important as the county attorney's office, we project into the future what issues are going to to arise and what can we do now to prevent issues in those within the future, both from the criminal side, making sure we're we're ready to tackle more crime, and from the growth and development side that we're looking at what civil issues could arise and coming up with some type of legal plan to address those.
Paul, did you have a question? I have questions. K. Anyone else?
Paul, did you have a question? I have questions. K. Anyone else?
Dane, thank you very much. K. Would you mind going and, getting Jake? Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
Dane, thank you very much. K. Would you mind going and, getting Jake? Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
I can help. Yeah. Hope you're standing up there. Everyone needs a pat on the back. Yep. They do. You're right.
I can help. Yeah. Hope you're standing up there. Everyone needs a pat on the back. Yep. They do. You're right.
Go ahead. Thank you. My name is Jacob Gordon. I would love the opportunity to serve as the county attorney because I believe I have the experience, leadership abilities, and judgment to protect the county from liability and provide safety for Cache County residents. I'm a twelve year veteran of the office starting in 2009. I've served in every criminal court in which our office prosecutes. I started in the juvenile court and was a member of the juvenile mental health court committee. I moved to the adult court where in addition to my other duties, I was the drug court prosecutor. After that, I took on the the violence against women cases, which included all the felony domestic violence, felony child abuse, felony sexual, and felony sexual assault. From there, I moved to the Logan City Justice Court, handling misdemeanors and traffic offenses. And, finally, I'm in adult court where I'm back to handling felonies. Also, for the past six years, I've been involved with a program at Utah State University, providing legal advice to students, usually on civil matters such as contracts, employment, landlord tenant disputes, and divorce and custody issues. I'm a native of Cache County. Much of mine and my wife's family live here in the valley. I'm married and have four kids, all teenagers. My baby is in middle school. I have two actively involved high schoolers and my oldest is serving as a missionary in Paraguay. I'm a graduate of Utah State University with a bachelor's degree in both political science and sociology, and a master's degree in political science. My wife is also an Aggie. She got her bachelor's at at Utah State. My law degree is from Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska. I've served as a state delegate, for my precinct on behalf of the Republican party and currently serve as a county delegate. I represented our office on a statewide committee charged with finding and transitioning prosecutors offices to a more efficient and robust digital case managements software system. Our office became a leader in that endeavor and that set a course for the rest of the state in digital case management. For the past two years, I've served on the board of the Friends of the Children's Justice Center where I currently serve as the secretary. If selected as the county attorney, my priorities would include setting up a county justice court. I know Thirty seconds. Thank you. I know that was attempted some years ago, but I think the timing is right at this point to try again where so many justice courts in the Valley are closing their doors because of cost. I'd also like to see more transparency from our office, giving the public more information and statistics related to what we do, the number of cases we handle, and the number of civil cases in which the county is involved. Through my experience, I have gained the ability to lead and the judgment necessary to serve as the Cache County Attorney. Thank you.
Go ahead. Thank you. My name is Jacob Gordon. I would love the opportunity to serve as the county attorney because I believe I have the experience, leadership abilities, and judgment to protect the county from liability and provide safety for Cache County residents. I'm a twelve year veteran of the office starting in 2009. I've served in every criminal court in which our office prosecutes. I started in the juvenile court and was a member of the juvenile mental health court committee. I moved to the adult court where in addition to my other duties, I was the drug court prosecutor. After that, I took on the the violence against women cases, which included all the felony domestic violence, felony child abuse, felony sexual, and felony sexual assault. From there, I moved to the Logan City Justice Court, handling misdemeanors and traffic offenses. And, finally, I'm in adult court where I'm back to handling felonies. Also, for the past six years, I've been involved with a program at Utah State University, providing legal advice to students, usually on civil matters such as contracts, employment, landlord tenant disputes, and divorce and custody issues. I'm a native of Cache County. Much of mine and my wife's family live here in the valley. I'm married and have four kids, all teenagers. My baby is in middle school. I have two actively involved high schoolers and my oldest is serving as a missionary in Paraguay. I'm a graduate of Utah State University with a bachelor's degree in both political science and sociology, and a master's degree in political science. My wife is also an Aggie. She got her bachelor's at at Utah State. My law degree is from Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska. I've served as a state delegate, for my precinct on behalf of the Republican party and currently serve as a county delegate. I represented our office on a statewide committee charged with finding and transitioning prosecutors offices to a more efficient and robust digital case managements software system. Our office became a leader in that endeavor and that set a course for the rest of the state in digital case management. For the past two years, I've served on the board of the Friends of the Children's Justice Center where I currently serve as the secretary. If selected as the county attorney, my priorities would include setting up a county justice court. I know Thirty seconds. Thank you. I know that was attempted some years ago, but I think the timing is right at this point to try again where so many justice courts in the Valley are closing their doors because of cost. I'd also like to see more transparency from our office, giving the public more information and statistics related to what we do, the number of cases we handle, and the number of civil cases in which the county is involved. Through my experience, I have gained the ability to lead and the judgment necessary to serve as the Cache County Attorney. Thank you.
Thank you. I have four questions and probably a couple others from counsel, but we'll start with you, Barbara. You'll read number one and come down the line.
Thank you. I have four questions and probably a couple others from counsel, but we'll start with you, Barbara. You'll read number one and come down the line.
Alright. Jake, thanks for being here. Appreciate your time. K. What is the role of the county attorney and what is your vision and your goal for that office?
Alright. Jake, thanks for being here. Appreciate your time. K. What is the role of the county attorney and what is your vision and your goal for that office?
Well, the role of the county attorney, a county attorney in any district is or any county is to be the top law enforcement official for that jurisdiction to advise police agencies and other law enforcement agencies about about criminal prosecution And as a on the civil side to protect the county from liability and to make sure that everything in the county county business is being done according to the law, and in a in a manner that will, protect the county from any kind of lawsuits. My vision for the county attorney's office is to see see that change is done in the best in the best way possible to move our prosecution services forward and to move the business of the county forward and provide legal advice to to you guys and to other departments in the county so that, those department heads and other employees can make the best decisions possible, with the information that we have.
Well, the role of the county attorney, a county attorney in any district is or any county is to be the top law enforcement official for that jurisdiction to advise police agencies and other law enforcement agencies about about criminal prosecution And as a on the civil side to protect the county from liability and to make sure that everything in the county county business is being done according to the law, and in a in a manner that will, protect the county from any kind of lawsuits. My vision for the county attorney's office is to see see that change is done in the best in the best way possible to move our prosecution services forward and to move the business of the county forward and provide legal advice to to you guys and to other departments in the county so that, those department heads and other employees can make the best decisions possible, with the information that we have.
Okay. Number two. And again, you've covered this a little bit already, this question, but I ask you to give some perhaps further enlightenment. There are two basically there are basically two parts to the county attorney's office, advising county officials and prosecuting criminals. Mhmm. Explain how you would achieve the balance needed in meeting both of the criminal and civil duties.
Okay. Number two. And again, you've covered this a little bit already, this question, but I ask you to give some perhaps further enlightenment. There are two basically there are basically two parts to the county attorney's office, advising county officials and prosecuting criminals. Mhmm. Explain how you would achieve the balance needed in meeting both of the criminal and civil duties.
Well, as far as as far as criminal duties, I would rely heavily on our prosecutors. We have a great group of prosecutors who know what they're doing, who are reasonable in their judgment. And I would allow them space to to do their work and provide advice and counsel to them when they need it. Would wanna create an atmosphere where we can round table cases so that we can find the best solution possible to to any kind of criminal violation. On the civil side, again, would rely heavily on the on our civil attorneys to do their work and to advise me on what what actions we should take as a county. I don't have as much experience in that. However, I would do as I have done in the criminal realm, and that is when I have questions, I go to the people that know. And I ask them their advice, and then I throw myself into research and try to learn as much as I can about any given subject so that I can become not only knowledgeable but well versed in that subject so that I could provide advice to our our county departments that they need it so that they can make the best decisions possible.
Well, as far as as far as criminal duties, I would rely heavily on our prosecutors. We have a great group of prosecutors who know what they're doing, who are reasonable in their judgment. And I would allow them space to to do their work and provide advice and counsel to them when they need it. Would wanna create an atmosphere where we can round table cases so that we can find the best solution possible to to any kind of criminal violation. On the civil side, again, would rely heavily on the on our civil attorneys to do their work and to advise me on what what actions we should take as a county. I don't have as much experience in that. However, I would do as I have done in the criminal realm, and that is when I have questions, I go to the people that know. And I ask them their advice, and then I throw myself into research and try to learn as much as I can about any given subject so that I can become not only knowledgeable but well versed in that subject so that I could provide advice to our our county departments that they need it so that they can make the best decisions possible.
Question number three, Jake. What are your plans in your current position that you were auto selected as the county attorney?
Question number three, Jake. What are your plans in your current position that you were auto selected as the county attorney?
I will keep prosecuting. At this time, I'm assigned in front of judge Maynard with the general felony calendar. And so I would continue in those duties. I enjoy prosecuting. It's a worthy pursuit. It's challenging. It's ever changing and I would continue to do that. Thank
I will keep prosecuting. At this time, I'm assigned in front of judge Maynard with the general felony calendar. And so I would continue in those duties. I enjoy prosecuting. It's a worthy pursuit. It's challenging. It's ever changing and I would continue to do that. Thank
Okay. Jake, what are your thoughts on Utah's criminal justice reform known as the Justice Reinvestment Initiative or JRI?
Okay. Jake, what are your thoughts on Utah's criminal justice reform known as the Justice Reinvestment Initiative or JRI?
My thoughts on JRI are complex. We should never be satisfied with the status quo. The criminal justice system is made up of people and as people, we are inherently flawed, which means we should always be striving to be better. JRI is is a worthy pursuit. I think there were some parts of it that could have been done better. I don't agree with all of it. I agree with the goal of making the criminal justice system better, but I don't I don't agree with everything that j r I did. I would want to see some things changed. And I want to see some things improved.
My thoughts on JRI are complex. We should never be satisfied with the status quo. The criminal justice system is made up of people and as people, we are inherently flawed, which means we should always be striving to be better. JRI is is a worthy pursuit. I think there were some parts of it that could have been done better. I don't agree with all of it. I agree with the goal of making the criminal justice system better, but I don't I don't agree with everything that j r I did. I would want to see some things changed. And I want to see some things improved.
Jake, can you expand on a little bit there on what parts you agreed with and what parts you would wanna change?
Jake, can you expand on a little bit there on what parts you agreed with and what parts you would wanna change?
Yeah. Absolutely. I agree with the emphasis put on, rehabilitation and counseling. I think it's a great thing. When I was serving in the drug court, that was the single most effective tool we had to rehabilitate drug addicts and to help them lead better lives. It's really a brilliant program. JRI, in some ways, threw a wrench in that. It it lowered the severity of drug charges, which meant that we could not persuade as many people to participate in it. If if the option was, well you can spend thirty days in jail or you can spend two years in this program that will eventually help you get better. And In the mind of a person who's in active addiction, thirty days doesn't seem like that much. And two years seems like a really long time. And so it hampered our efforts to to really help people. Overcoming addiction is a is a long process. It's not something that is done overnight. And getting people to buy in and and have that motivation to change their lives was hard after JRI was enacted. But I do like the emphasis put on on rehabilitation and and getting people to make better choices. I it's it's not a solution to just put people in jail or prison.
Yeah. Absolutely. I agree with the emphasis put on, rehabilitation and counseling. I think it's a great thing. When I was serving in the drug court, that was the single most effective tool we had to rehabilitate drug addicts and to help them lead better lives. It's really a brilliant program. JRI, in some ways, threw a wrench in that. It it lowered the severity of drug charges, which meant that we could not persuade as many people to participate in it. If if the option was, well you can spend thirty days in jail or you can spend two years in this program that will eventually help you get better. And In the mind of a person who's in active addiction, thirty days doesn't seem like that much. And two years seems like a really long time. And so it hampered our efforts to to really help people. Overcoming addiction is a is a long process. It's not something that is done overnight. And getting people to buy in and and have that motivation to change their lives was hard after JRI was enacted. But I do like the emphasis put on on rehabilitation and and getting people to make better choices. I it's it's not a solution to just put people in jail or prison.
Thank you. Counsel, do you have any other questions?
Thank you. Counsel, do you have any other questions?
Yeah, I do. I'd like, now the county attorney's office is a leadership and management role. You know, you're gonna you're over a lot of people, and you're a lot of organizing as such. What changes and or fixes would you make in that office to make it better?
Yeah, I do. I'd like, now the county attorney's office is a leadership and management role. You know, you're gonna you're over a lot of people, and you're a lot of organizing as such. What changes and or fixes would you make in that office to make it better?
I love I love James Swink. He was a great guy, and he's a great boss. I would I would do some things differently. I would make it a point to be in my office as much as possible and conduct my business from there. I would make sure that all the employees in the office knew that my door was always open. And if they had questions or concerns or things they wanted to run by me, that I would be available to them. I'd be available to, to the other departments in the county for when they had questions. They would know where to find me. I know being out of the office is sometimes inevitable, but it my my goal would be would be to be there as much as possible because I think that's the way that the the best interest of the residents of Cache County are are advanced. That's what I would change.
I love I love James Swink. He was a great guy, and he's a great boss. I would I would do some things differently. I would make it a point to be in my office as much as possible and conduct my business from there. I would make sure that all the employees in the office knew that my door was always open. And if they had questions or concerns or things they wanted to run by me, that I would be available to them. I'd be available to, to the other departments in the county for when they had questions. They would know where to find me. I know being out of the office is sometimes inevitable, but it my my goal would be would be to be there as much as possible because I think that's the way that the the best interest of the residents of Cache County are are advanced. That's what I would change.
Yeah. I'm gonna ask the same question, that I asked before, and that is what issues and an issue could be a problem that face the county and the attorney's office in the county. What are they and how would you address them and help the county understand what we've gotta do go forward to correct those or help those?
Yeah. I'm gonna ask the same question, that I asked before, and that is what issues and an issue could be a problem that face the county and the attorney's office in the county. What are they and how would you address them and help the county understand what we've gotta do go forward to correct those or help those?
Well, as I mentioned in my in my opening, I would love to see the creation of a county justice court. So many of them so many of the justice courts are folding because of because of cost. I think it would streamline the process to to consolidate it all in one place. There will only be one place that people would have to to go to to resolve any kind of of citation or or other misdemeanor offense. And that really is I mean, efficiency. That that would be the goal is to make everything more efficient so that we are putting every tax dollar to its best use and stretching it just as far as it would go. That would be that would be one thing that I would that I would do. Also, as I as I mentioned again, transparency, love to provide more information to Cache County residents about what we do in our office and the the number of cases that we handle, the number of disputes that we're facing, so that residents will have a a more complete picture of what our office does, what it doesn't do, and how we how we best serve them as as residents of the county.
Well, as I mentioned in my in my opening, I would love to see the creation of a county justice court. So many of them so many of the justice courts are folding because of because of cost. I think it would streamline the process to to consolidate it all in one place. There will only be one place that people would have to to go to to resolve any kind of of citation or or other misdemeanor offense. And that really is I mean, efficiency. That that would be the goal is to make everything more efficient so that we are putting every tax dollar to its best use and stretching it just as far as it would go. That would be that would be one thing that I would that I would do. Also, as I as I mentioned again, transparency, love to provide more information to Cache County residents about what we do in our office and the the number of cases that we handle, the number of disputes that we're facing, so that residents will have a a more complete picture of what our office does, what it doesn't do, and how we how we best serve them as as residents of the county.
Jake, just as a follow-up on that. I'm not sure if everyone is familiar with the difference between a justice court and the district court. Can you Sure. Please describe that so that they can understand what your vision is about? Sure.
Jake, just as a follow-up on that. I'm not sure if everyone is familiar with the difference between a justice court and the district court. Can you Sure. Please describe that so that they can understand what your vision is about? Sure.
The district court is just across the street here, Big Gray Building. It's the court of general jurisdiction. So it will the district judges will take any case that is an a misdemeanor and above or in other words, a felony. And then they take all the b and c misdemeanors, but only from the unincorporated areas of the county where there is no justice court set up. If there is a justice court set up in that jurisdiction, then the b and c misdemeanors and the traffic offenses will go to that justice court. So there's a division of jurisdiction there that the justice courts and the district court share.
The district court is just across the street here, Big Gray Building. It's the court of general jurisdiction. So it will the district judges will take any case that is an a misdemeanor and above or in other words, a felony. And then they take all the b and c misdemeanors, but only from the unincorporated areas of the county where there is no justice court set up. If there is a justice court set up in that jurisdiction, then the b and c misdemeanors and the traffic offenses will go to that justice court. So there's a division of jurisdiction there that the justice courts and the district court share.
Thank you. Gordy, did you have a question? No? Anyone else?
Thank you. Gordy, did you have a question? No? Anyone else?
Maybe just to expand on that a little bit. I'm getting some enlightenment here. But you said many of the justice courts are folding and which then those offenses have to be handled by the district court. That's correct. So I think Logan has a justice court. Right? Correct.
Maybe just to expand on that a little bit. I'm getting some enlightenment here. But you said many of the justice courts are folding and which then those offenses have to be handled by the district court. That's correct. So I think Logan has a justice court. Right? Correct.
And does Hiram still have theirs or do that one fold? Hyrum is in the process of closing their justice court. And are those the only two of them that would be left, would be Smithfield and Logan? North Logan. Smithfield, I believe, is is disbanding theirs as well, and they're transferring to the district court.
And does Hiram still have theirs or do that one fold? Hyrum is in the process of closing their justice court. And are those the only two of them that would be left, would be Smithfield and Logan? North Logan. Smithfield, I believe, is is disbanding theirs as well, and they're transferring to the district court.
Providence still has one. Nibley combined with Hiram, which is again that's that's gonna come to the district court. Clarkson, they folded theirs several years ago.
Providence still has one. Nibley combined with Hiram, which is again that's that's gonna come to the district court. Clarkson, they folded theirs several years ago.
I think Wellsville still has it. Wellsville still has theirs
I think Wellsville still has it. Wellsville still has theirs
for now. Yeah. They do. Hyde Park still has theirs, I think. You're familiar. What's that? Hyde Park. Oh. And North Park. Yes. North Park. Yeah. They still do.
for now. Yeah. They do. Hyde Park still has theirs, I think. You're familiar. What's that? Hyde Park. Oh. And North Park. Yes. North Park. Yeah. They still do.
K. Any other questions? We can face. K. Thank you very much. Appreciated that. And will you run and get John Luke for us? I will. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, John. K. Thank you. Go go ahead. Okay.
K. Any other questions? We can face. K. Thank you very much. Appreciated that. And will you run and get John Luke for us? I will. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, John. K. Thank you. Go go ahead. Okay.
Thank you. Since coming to the county, I've learned that the scope of work done by the county attorney's office is broader than I first realized. It's part of why I love my job here, and it's also why I've come to believe that the attorney's office in the county would best be served, by a county attorney whose life and legal experience best matches the scope of the office. And for that reason, I wanna share with you, my background, maybe more than you already know. I was born and raised here in Cache Valley, graduated from Skyview High School. For Gordy's sake, I tell you that I worked at a dairy farm, in my teen years, milking cows and hauling hay and moving pipe. Worked on a grounds crew at Utah State and was a night watchman down at Willow Park Zoo, served a mission, in Japan, and then earned a degree here at Utah State University. Along the way, helped form a singing group called Voice Mail. After Utah State, I went to law school at BYU. While in law school, I worked at the Attorney General's office in the Criminal Appeals Division, working to keep felons behind bars. After law school, I clerked for Judge Gregory k Orm of the Utah Court of Appeals. Initially, it was to be a one year clerkship. After he read the first legal opinion that I prepared for him, he complimented my work and asked me to clerk for two years, which I did. I then clerked for judge justice Richard c Howe of the Utah Supreme Court and judge Russell w Bench of the Court of Appeals. While clerking, I met my wife, Valerie, in Salt Lake City. She was working there as well. Valerie's French, and we have three children. After clerking, I worked at the law firm Suiter Axland in Salt Lake City. We did a general litigation practice. I took case to trial in federal district court in Salt Lake, prosecuted appeals in the federal tenth Circuit Court of Appeals. In 2006, our family moved to South Carolina where I joined the full time faculty at the University of South Carolina Law School. On the side, I continued to do some legal work and occasionally also taught at the Department of Justice's National Advocacy Center. In 2014, we moved back here and I joined the firm Peck Hatfield, Baxter and Moore here in Logan. Again, a a general litigation practice. I've tried cases here across the street in state, district court, appeared in juvenile court, done appeals in the Utah Court of Appeals and Supreme Court, and again at the tenth circuit. About two years ago, James asked me to come and be his chief civil deputy. I've loved the job. I think I have something to offer, as county attorney, although the opportunity was unexpected, and I look forward to talking to you about that position.
Thank you. Since coming to the county, I've learned that the scope of work done by the county attorney's office is broader than I first realized. It's part of why I love my job here, and it's also why I've come to believe that the attorney's office in the county would best be served, by a county attorney whose life and legal experience best matches the scope of the office. And for that reason, I wanna share with you, my background, maybe more than you already know. I was born and raised here in Cache Valley, graduated from Skyview High School. For Gordy's sake, I tell you that I worked at a dairy farm, in my teen years, milking cows and hauling hay and moving pipe. Worked on a grounds crew at Utah State and was a night watchman down at Willow Park Zoo, served a mission, in Japan, and then earned a degree here at Utah State University. Along the way, helped form a singing group called Voice Mail. After Utah State, I went to law school at BYU. While in law school, I worked at the Attorney General's office in the Criminal Appeals Division, working to keep felons behind bars. After law school, I clerked for Judge Gregory k Orm of the Utah Court of Appeals. Initially, it was to be a one year clerkship. After he read the first legal opinion that I prepared for him, he complimented my work and asked me to clerk for two years, which I did. I then clerked for judge justice Richard c Howe of the Utah Supreme Court and judge Russell w Bench of the Court of Appeals. While clerking, I met my wife, Valerie, in Salt Lake City. She was working there as well. Valerie's French, and we have three children. After clerking, I worked at the law firm Suiter Axland in Salt Lake City. We did a general litigation practice. I took case to trial in federal district court in Salt Lake, prosecuted appeals in the federal tenth Circuit Court of Appeals. In 2006, our family moved to South Carolina where I joined the full time faculty at the University of South Carolina Law School. On the side, I continued to do some legal work and occasionally also taught at the Department of Justice's National Advocacy Center. In 2014, we moved back here and I joined the firm Peck Hatfield, Baxter and Moore here in Logan. Again, a a general litigation practice. I've tried cases here across the street in state, district court, appeared in juvenile court, done appeals in the Utah Court of Appeals and Supreme Court, and again at the tenth circuit. About two years ago, James asked me to come and be his chief civil deputy. I've loved the job. I think I have something to offer, as county attorney, although the opportunity was unexpected, and I look forward to talking to you about that position.
Thank you, John. We have four questions and we might have a couple a couple of follow-up questions. So, Barbara, if you'll start with the questions.
Thank you, John. We have four questions and we might have a couple a couple of follow-up questions. So, Barbara, if you'll start with the questions.
John, thank you for being here. Thanks for your time. K. My question is, what is the role of the county attorney and what is your vision and your goals for that office?
John, thank you for being here. Thanks for your time. K. My question is, what is the role of the county attorney and what is your vision and your goals for that office?
The role of the county attorney by statute, there's two primary roles. One is to prosecute crime in the county, the other is to represent the county in civil litigation and in civil matters and assist the the council and other departments and offices in the county. My vision in terms of the the prosecutorial role is to largely stay the course that's already been said. James Swain talked to me a number of times about his theory, that he called the broken windows theory, which is that if you prosecute the low level crimes, the broken windows, which in our county may be the the DUIs and the drug possession offenses. If you consistently prosecute those, then you reduce the number of larger crimes. I'd subscribe to that same theory. We have a good prosecutorial team. We have a James has had a fine chief deputy in Tony Baird. I would lean on Tony and that team and not come into the office to make any immediate or drastic changes on how we prosecute because I believe that things are going well. I would emphasize our need to communicate well with law enforcement, especially on significant cases as we, make charging decisions or, are negotiating, settlements, that we'd wanna be communicating with law enforcement. And as I get into office, there may be things that we would change but would not come in to to turn over things that are already working. On the civil side, as you know, there are things to to change and do more of. We we have had one chief civil deputy and and Tony also has handled civil matters, But our ability to do more than address issues as they arise has been difficult, and we appreciate your funding an additional civil attorney position with having another civil attorney that will be coming on, and we plan to begin those interviews here shortly. There are there are four things that I'd like us to be more proactive on on the civil side. Those include going all the way through the county code, making sure that it's up to date. I think that you're aware of some things we've found of late that are just outdated and we need to go through that, make sure we're up to date, and then have procedures in place that every year as the legislative session ends that we continue, that we look at what's happened and update our code. We need to address road issues. I didn't realize we had a timer on these. We had a timer on these too. Sorry, I'm long winded. I'll be very brief. We need to address road issues in the county, both in the mountain areas and on the valley floor. There we do review a lot of contracts in the attorney's office. I'd like to see us draft more of our own contracts and have the other party review hours. Okay. Thank you, John. And do some training as well.
The role of the county attorney by statute, there's two primary roles. One is to prosecute crime in the county, the other is to represent the county in civil litigation and in civil matters and assist the the council and other departments and offices in the county. My vision in terms of the the prosecutorial role is to largely stay the course that's already been said. James Swain talked to me a number of times about his theory, that he called the broken windows theory, which is that if you prosecute the low level crimes, the broken windows, which in our county may be the the DUIs and the drug possession offenses. If you consistently prosecute those, then you reduce the number of larger crimes. I'd subscribe to that same theory. We have a good prosecutorial team. We have a James has had a fine chief deputy in Tony Baird. I would lean on Tony and that team and not come into the office to make any immediate or drastic changes on how we prosecute because I believe that things are going well. I would emphasize our need to communicate well with law enforcement, especially on significant cases as we, make charging decisions or, are negotiating, settlements, that we'd wanna be communicating with law enforcement. And as I get into office, there may be things that we would change but would not come in to to turn over things that are already working. On the civil side, as you know, there are things to to change and do more of. We we have had one chief civil deputy and and Tony also has handled civil matters, But our ability to do more than address issues as they arise has been difficult, and we appreciate your funding an additional civil attorney position with having another civil attorney that will be coming on, and we plan to begin those interviews here shortly. There are there are four things that I'd like us to be more proactive on on the civil side. Those include going all the way through the county code, making sure that it's up to date. I think that you're aware of some things we've found of late that are just outdated and we need to go through that, make sure we're up to date, and then have procedures in place that every year as the legislative session ends that we continue, that we look at what's happened and update our code. We need to address road issues. I didn't realize we had a timer on these. We had a timer on these too. Sorry, I'm long winded. I'll be very brief. We need to address road issues in the county, both in the mountain areas and on the valley floor. There we do review a lot of contracts in the attorney's office. I'd like to see us draft more of our own contracts and have the other party review hours. Okay. Thank you, John. And do some training as well.
Thank you. You might get a little extra time on this question because it's similar to what you've been talking about. But Carl, if you go ahead and
Thank you. You might get a little extra time on this question because it's similar to what you've been talking about. But Carl, if you go ahead and
Yeah. The next question, John, really is ties in with the first question. There are basically, as you pointed out, two parts of the county attorney's office to advise the county officials and to prosecute criminals. Explain how you would achieve balance in meeting both the criminal and civil duties.
Yeah. The next question, John, really is ties in with the first question. There are basically, as you pointed out, two parts of the county attorney's office to advise the county officials and to prosecute criminals. Explain how you would achieve balance in meeting both the criminal and civil duties.
Yeah. That is kind of a follow on. And and to go into a little more detail then on the balance, you know that that I I am not a stranger to criminal law, having worked in criminal appeals, having clerked for judges who resolved those cases, and I have trial experience. I I don't have the experience of trying criminal cases myself, but have the skill sets to to do that and would want to learn from our prosecutors and from the chief deputy and largely lean on the team. We have nine attorneys there doing prosecuting work. We've had one and a half to two attorneys doing civil work. So I I would spend I don't know if I put it in percentages, 35, 40% of my time wanting to learn the ropes and become thoroughly invested and involved in our prosecution work, but the bulk of what I would bring and the time that I would spend is as a working civil attorney and overseeing the civil matters at the county. Maybe, you know, 65% of my time is what I would envision. And that we would with a more if I if I became county attorney, we'd need to have a new chief civil deputy and you've approved another civil deputy. We'd have three of us to be not only reactive but proactive in the ways that I was talking about, which also I was going to say would include doing some training. For example, Nolan mentioned to me after a planning commission joint meeting with you and the planning commission recently that he learned some new things about zoning and planning that he hadn't known in his years on the planning commission. That's not a ding on Nolan, that's an invitation to the county attorney's office to perhaps do some some training on legal issues with different parts of the county.
Yeah. That is kind of a follow on. And and to go into a little more detail then on the balance, you know that that I I am not a stranger to criminal law, having worked in criminal appeals, having clerked for judges who resolved those cases, and I have trial experience. I I don't have the experience of trying criminal cases myself, but have the skill sets to to do that and would want to learn from our prosecutors and from the chief deputy and largely lean on the team. We have nine attorneys there doing prosecuting work. We've had one and a half to two attorneys doing civil work. So I I would spend I don't know if I put it in percentages, 35, 40% of my time wanting to learn the ropes and become thoroughly invested and involved in our prosecution work, but the bulk of what I would bring and the time that I would spend is as a working civil attorney and overseeing the civil matters at the county. Maybe, you know, 65% of my time is what I would envision. And that we would with a more if I if I became county attorney, we'd need to have a new chief civil deputy and you've approved another civil deputy. We'd have three of us to be not only reactive but proactive in the ways that I was talking about, which also I was going to say would include doing some training. For example, Nolan mentioned to me after a planning commission joint meeting with you and the planning commission recently that he learned some new things about zoning and planning that he hadn't known in his years on the planning commission. That's not a ding on Nolan, that's an invitation to the county attorney's office to perhaps do some some training on legal issues with different parts of the county.
John, number three. You're doing pretty good. I hope so. What are your plans in your current position
John, number three. You're doing pretty good. I hope so. What are your plans in your current position
If you are not a selected county attorney?
If you are not a selected county attorney?
I would I would shift that 40% of criminal work, and I'd remain as the chief civil deputy. We'd have one new civil attorney come on, and I would hope to do our best to achieve those same goals that I've talked about on the civil side of things already. I would support Dane or Jake. We've had opportunities to visit. One of the great things about our office is the collegiality and, and goodwill in our office where you don't really see egos involved, but everybody jumping in and doing their part. I'd want to continue just doing my part.
I would I would shift that 40% of criminal work, and I'd remain as the chief civil deputy. We'd have one new civil attorney come on, and I would hope to do our best to achieve those same goals that I've talked about on the civil side of things already. I would support Dane or Jake. We've had opportunities to visit. One of the great things about our office is the collegiality and, and goodwill in our office where you don't really see egos involved, but everybody jumping in and doing their part. I'd want to continue just doing my part.
What are your thoughts on Utah's criminal justice reform known as Justice Reinvestment Initiative or KRI?
What are your thoughts on Utah's criminal justice reform known as Justice Reinvestment Initiative or KRI?
I'm gonna speak broadly initially here. When when Valerie and I decided to move back to Utah, I interviewed at the Attorney General's Office in Criminal Appeals where I'd worked as a student. The work of that office is to keep felons behind bars and death row inmates on death row. I also interviewed here at Peck Hadfield. We decided that if we were going to move to Utah, we wanted to be in Cache Valley, and I told the attorney general's office that I although I'd been interviewed and things looked promising, that I was going to Cache Valley. That's to say that if I had pursued my other, hoped for job, I'd be doing criminal appeals doing that work. I believe in the criminal justice system and the important work that our law enforcement officers do and that our prosecutors do. As you look at the system, there are ways that there could be reforms and I'll mention one. I think, I've had experience, working with a family where a son with some mental health issues, one day opened fire in the home toward the father. Luckily, that didn't result in injury, but in working with that family, we had difficulty finding a mental health facility that would keep him for more than about three nights and then wanted to send him home to meet with a therapist the next week, but be at home with the folks he'd tried to shoot. Sometimes our criminal justice system, because of shortcomings in our mental health system. Our criminal justice system has to deal with mental health issues more than I think it need than it than they really are equipped to or designed to. If if there are justice parts of justice reform that involve law enforcement doing less mental health work and there being others who are able to step in and help with that. Those are the kinds of things that I don't have specifics for you, but I think that that reforms could be appropriate. Reforms that result in folks who drink and drive and injure or kill people being immediately out on bail, those aren't parts of of JRI that I'd agree with. Frankly, part of that 40% of the time on the criminal side of things would be me coming up to speed more on JRI and other criminal issues and I might have more specifics for you. But I hope in broad strokes you can see where I might head on those specifics as I get into them.
I'm gonna speak broadly initially here. When when Valerie and I decided to move back to Utah, I interviewed at the Attorney General's Office in Criminal Appeals where I'd worked as a student. The work of that office is to keep felons behind bars and death row inmates on death row. I also interviewed here at Peck Hadfield. We decided that if we were going to move to Utah, we wanted to be in Cache Valley, and I told the attorney general's office that I although I'd been interviewed and things looked promising, that I was going to Cache Valley. That's to say that if I had pursued my other, hoped for job, I'd be doing criminal appeals doing that work. I believe in the criminal justice system and the important work that our law enforcement officers do and that our prosecutors do. As you look at the system, there are ways that there could be reforms and I'll mention one. I think, I've had experience, working with a family where a son with some mental health issues, one day opened fire in the home toward the father. Luckily, that didn't result in injury, but in working with that family, we had difficulty finding a mental health facility that would keep him for more than about three nights and then wanted to send him home to meet with a therapist the next week, but be at home with the folks he'd tried to shoot. Sometimes our criminal justice system, because of shortcomings in our mental health system. Our criminal justice system has to deal with mental health issues more than I think it need than it than they really are equipped to or designed to. If if there are justice parts of justice reform that involve law enforcement doing less mental health work and there being others who are able to step in and help with that. Those are the kinds of things that I don't have specifics for you, but I think that that reforms could be appropriate. Reforms that result in folks who drink and drive and injure or kill people being immediately out on bail, those aren't parts of of JRI that I'd agree with. Frankly, part of that 40% of the time on the criminal side of things would be me coming up to speed more on JRI and other criminal issues and I might have more specifics for you. But I hope in broad strokes you can see where I might head on those specifics as I get into them.
Thanks, John. Dave, I remember you probably have another question that you wanna ask? I do. Go
Thanks, John. Dave, I remember you probably have another question that you wanna ask? I do. Go
The county attorney's office and the county attorney specifically is a leadership and management role. Yeah. You know, they're they're the one that's to set the tone and so forth. What changes and or fixes would you make in that office if you were the new county attorney?
The county attorney's office and the county attorney specifically is a leadership and management role. Yeah. You know, they're they're the one that's to set the tone and so forth. What changes and or fixes would you make in that office if you were the new county attorney?
I have a couple of thoughts that I'll give you, but first thing that I intend to do would be to meet with and visit with each of our attorneys and the rest of our staff, including our victim advocates to learn what changes and fixes they might see. But before embarking on a specific agenda, I'd want to get the full view. From where I sit now, some things that I would like to do are to have, on the civil side, more regular meetings and coordination between the county attorney and the attorneys who work the civil matters. So that, again, we aren't responding, only responding as issues come up, but having a game plan and working systematically on on issues. On the criminal side of things, I I don't see a need for a lot of change. What I do see is that we have James Swink who's left the office, Barbara Lochmar, who's going to be retiring soon, and we have two new attorneys new prosecuting attorneys in the office. And one is fresh out of law school. The other has some years of experience, but is fairly new now to prosecuting. I'd wanna make sure that we have mentoring going on between our seasoned attorneys and good training with for those new attorneys coming in because we are at a transition time and an opportunity to make sure we're all trained, make sure there's a continuation of the collegiality and cohesiveness. So I I might meet a little more as groups than we have to ensure training and that we work together well.
I have a couple of thoughts that I'll give you, but first thing that I intend to do would be to meet with and visit with each of our attorneys and the rest of our staff, including our victim advocates to learn what changes and fixes they might see. But before embarking on a specific agenda, I'd want to get the full view. From where I sit now, some things that I would like to do are to have, on the civil side, more regular meetings and coordination between the county attorney and the attorneys who work the civil matters. So that, again, we aren't responding, only responding as issues come up, but having a game plan and working systematically on on issues. On the criminal side of things, I I don't see a need for a lot of change. What I do see is that we have James Swink who's left the office, Barbara Lochmar, who's going to be retiring soon, and we have two new attorneys new prosecuting attorneys in the office. And one is fresh out of law school. The other has some years of experience, but is fairly new now to prosecuting. I'd wanna make sure that we have mentoring going on between our seasoned attorneys and good training with for those new attorneys coming in because we are at a transition time and an opportunity to make sure we're all trained, make sure there's a continuation of the collegiality and cohesiveness. So I I might meet a little more as groups than we have to ensure training and that we work together well.
Yeah. What issues or could be problems face the county as well as the attorney's office in Cache County? And how do you see those or what are they and how would you address them and help the county citizens and the attorney's office in meeting and addressing those? Is this still a two minute answer?
Yeah. What issues or could be problems face the county as well as the attorney's office in Cache County? And how do you see those or what are they and how would you address them and help the county citizens and the attorney's office in meeting and addressing those? Is this still a two minute answer?
Because I'm on the North, we'll give you four minutes. I can't say that. So
Because I'm on the North, we'll give you four minutes. I can't say that. So
You're you're aware, and and we've, as a county, been working together on some issues in the recorder's office. I've been pleased to be part of discussions on that both in council meeting and in other meetings. I would hope to continue to help facilitate those kinds of discussions in that situation specifically and in other areas where the County Attorney's Office can fill the attorney role of counselor at law and sometimes mediator to to help to help there be good communication in the county in the different offices and addressing problems. As I mentioned, on the civil side, we have some road issues. There's enough growth in the valley that we need to do some forward planning and thinking on road issues and and our development services office is working on the general plan and it's not only the attorney's office that deals with that. We just deal with the legal issues with roads. But working together with public works development services, I think we need to determine in particular, the roads on the Valley Floor that the county claims as county roads simply because of use over time and determine which of those roads we really have that evidence of use over time and of those, which ones we want to pursue and maybe even formalize county ownership. The same goes for roads in the mountains. We have some roads in forest land that the county believes are county roads. We have roads on private land in the mountain areas of the county that the the attorney's office and as I understand, the county believes are county roads and yet the forest service and some landowners don't necessarily agree with us. For forward planning, we need to resolve some of those issues. Are we up to three minutes or we got a little time? About thirty seconds. I have a question, madam chair. Oh, please go ahead.
You're you're aware, and and we've, as a county, been working together on some issues in the recorder's office. I've been pleased to be part of discussions on that both in council meeting and in other meetings. I would hope to continue to help facilitate those kinds of discussions in that situation specifically and in other areas where the County Attorney's Office can fill the attorney role of counselor at law and sometimes mediator to to help to help there be good communication in the county in the different offices and addressing problems. As I mentioned, on the civil side, we have some road issues. There's enough growth in the valley that we need to do some forward planning and thinking on road issues and and our development services office is working on the general plan and it's not only the attorney's office that deals with that. We just deal with the legal issues with roads. But working together with public works development services, I think we need to determine in particular, the roads on the Valley Floor that the county claims as county roads simply because of use over time and determine which of those roads we really have that evidence of use over time and of those, which ones we want to pursue and maybe even formalize county ownership. The same goes for roads in the mountains. We have some roads in forest land that the county believes are county roads. We have roads on private land in the mountain areas of the county that the the attorney's office and as I understand, the county believes are county roads and yet the forest service and some landowners don't necessarily agree with us. For forward planning, we need to resolve some of those issues. Are we up to three minutes or we got a little time? About thirty seconds. I have a question, madam chair. Oh, please go ahead.
John, you just mentioned quite a little bit about roads and rural roads, and and as you foresee the future, will we have a will we have enough civil attorneys to go out and and take care of those road needs, and those those challenges, because we haven't even come close to having the manpower that we need to do something like that. Supposing you become the county attorney, you get another civil attorney. I'm thinking that we still need another one on top of that to get forth and do some of these things. What's your thoughts on, you know, the civil side even getting a little larger than what's been talked about here today?
John, you just mentioned quite a little bit about roads and rural roads, and and as you foresee the future, will we have a will we have enough civil attorneys to go out and and take care of those road needs, and those those challenges, because we haven't even come close to having the manpower that we need to do something like that. Supposing you become the county attorney, you get another civil attorney. I'm thinking that we still need another one on top of that to get forth and do some of these things. What's your thoughts on, you know, the civil side even getting a little larger than what's been talked about here today?
When when James came to you to ask for another civil attorney, he and I went pulled the state, the civil, the county attorney's offices in the state that were the size of our county and larger, and then looked at how many civil attorneys they had in those offices and then divided that by the population or the population by civil attorneys. As you look at, at counties our size and just lower, we we don't have as many civil attorneys as I don't think any other of those counties on a attorney per population basis. If if I become county attorney, again, I'd I'd intend to be behind the desk working as a civil attorney. We'd have a new chief civil attorney who'd be full time and another full time civil. With that, I think we can make some real headway. If our road issues lead us to litigation, as we've done in the past, we may contract out the litigation work itself, but we'd we need to talk about that over time. Although you're the ones that would need to help us with the budget part, Yes. I I think that, you know, when when you see a a Weber County Attorney's Office that has three or four civil attorneys besides the county attorney, I think over time, yes, we'll need to to go that direction. If we go with a new chief civil deputy and another civil attorney and I can can continue to work in that role, I think we can make some real headway just at that.
When when James came to you to ask for another civil attorney, he and I went pulled the state, the civil, the county attorney's offices in the state that were the size of our county and larger, and then looked at how many civil attorneys they had in those offices and then divided that by the population or the population by civil attorneys. As you look at, at counties our size and just lower, we we don't have as many civil attorneys as I don't think any other of those counties on a attorney per population basis. If if I become county attorney, again, I'd I'd intend to be behind the desk working as a civil attorney. We'd have a new chief civil attorney who'd be full time and another full time civil. With that, I think we can make some real headway. If our road issues lead us to litigation, as we've done in the past, we may contract out the litigation work itself, but we'd we need to talk about that over time. Although you're the ones that would need to help us with the budget part, Yes. I I think that, you know, when when you see a a Weber County Attorney's Office that has three or four civil attorneys besides the county attorney, I think over time, yes, we'll need to to go that direction. If we go with a new chief civil deputy and another civil attorney and I can can continue to work in that role, I think we can make some real headway just at that.
Are there any other questions? Okay. John, thank you. And I I wanna apologize. I remember now that I had said a two minute closing, and I totally forgot to I was so focused on let's make sure we go get the other candidates that I forgot to offer that or to the other two candidates. So we'll forego that. But if you would be so kind to go and ask them to come back down, that would be good. Thank you again. Thank
Are there any other questions? Okay. John, thank you. And I I wanna apologize. I remember now that I had said a two minute closing, and I totally forgot to I was so focused on let's make sure we go get the other candidates that I forgot to offer that or to the other two candidates. So we'll forego that. But if you would be so kind to go and ask them to come back down, that would be good. Thank you again. Thank
You can just have a seat. Before we adjourned, I just wanted, on behalf of the council, to thank you for your willingness to serve in this position and for throwing your hat in the ring. It's a it's quite a thing to be in the spot like like that and to have these questions coming at you that you don't know what they are, and sometimes I I've heard we're kinda scary. I hope we're not too scary, but thank you, gentlemen. So impressed with each of you and just really glad that we have all of you working in the county attorney's office. I mean, that's we have some stellar people there and really appreciate all that each of you do. You're amazing. I wanted to let you know that we will make a decision at our meeting next Tuesday, August 10, in our regular meeting. That will be by a regular vote. We can't vote in secret. We'll have to have someone make a motion and we'll we'll vote on who to select. And then I know it can be hard because you have your families and stuff, so instead of having the swearing in of whomever we select right after that, we decided to to do that the next day, August at 12:30PM. And I've asked judge Kennel if he would do the honors and he's agreed. And we'll have, some refreshments. We can have a little bit of a reception there too. So and your families are invited to come to that. So, again, thank you so much. It's it's been a pleasure to get to know better each of you and and all that you do. Thank you. Give them a round of applause.
You can just have a seat. Before we adjourned, I just wanted, on behalf of the council, to thank you for your willingness to serve in this position and for throwing your hat in the ring. It's a it's quite a thing to be in the spot like like that and to have these questions coming at you that you don't know what they are, and sometimes I I've heard we're kinda scary. I hope we're not too scary, but thank you, gentlemen. So impressed with each of you and just really glad that we have all of you working in the county attorney's office. I mean, that's we have some stellar people there and really appreciate all that each of you do. You're amazing. I wanted to let you know that we will make a decision at our meeting next Tuesday, August 10, in our regular meeting. That will be by a regular vote. We can't vote in secret. We'll have to have someone make a motion and we'll we'll vote on who to select. And then I know it can be hard because you have your families and stuff, so instead of having the swearing in of whomever we select right after that, we decided to to do that the next day, August at 12:30PM. And I've asked judge Kennel if he would do the honors and he's agreed. And we'll have, some refreshments. We can have a little bit of a reception there too. So and your families are invited to come to that. So, again, thank you so much. It's it's been a pleasure to get to know better each of you and and all that you do. Thank you. Give them a round of applause.
Mister Madam Chair, would it be inappropriate because behind each one of these these gentlemen and these accomplished attorneys, they always have a spouse and they always have a family. Would it be inappropriate to ask them to introduce their their families? I I would like to I I would like to see who they are. I think that would be in order. I've been looking at their faces and looking at the crowd, and I can't really decide who goes to who.
Mister Madam Chair, would it be inappropriate because behind each one of these these gentlemen and these accomplished attorneys, they always have a spouse and they always have a family. Would it be inappropriate to ask them to introduce their their families? I I would like to I I would like to see who they are. I think that would be in order. I've been looking at their faces and looking at the crowd, and I can't really decide who goes to who.
I wanna know if they'll claim them.
I wanna know if they'll claim them.
Yes. I think that's a problem. Family claiming them. Yes. Jacob, why don't we start with you?
Yes. I think that's a problem. Family claiming them. Yes. Jacob, why don't we start with you?
This is my wife, Holly. My my kids are off doing kid things.
This is my wife, Holly. My my kids are off doing kid things.
Heidi, nice to have you here. Thank you. John?
Heidi, nice to have you here. Thank you. John?
Thank you. My wife, Valerie, is here. And next to her is our son, Adrian. And next to him is our daughter,
Thank you. My wife, Valerie, is here. And next to her is our son, Adrian. And next to him is our daughter,
Thank you for being here. Thank you for being here. It's so great to have families here and have that support.
Thank you for being here. Thank you for being here. It's so great to have families here and have that support.
So thank you, Gordy for thinking of that. That was well in order. Thank you. We appreciate you you families and especially you wives that put up with these guys and all the things that they have to do. So thank you goes to you as well.
So thank you, Gordy for thinking of that. That was well in order. Thank you. We appreciate you you families and especially you wives that put up with these guys and all the things that they have to do. So thank you goes to you as well.