05 24 2022 COUNCIL WORKSHOP
2026-04-10
Here. My mic. Alright. K. Very good. Alright. Cameron, you're on. Okay.
Here. My mic. Alright. K. Very good. Alright. Cameron, you're on. Okay.
Before Cameron says something, can I just quickly call you that I'll explain these later? Cameron, I'll give you some. These are from me and not from Cameron's. Okay. Just wanted the council to know. Okay. Thanks. There are alternatives.
Before Cameron says something, can I just quickly call you that I'll explain these later? Cameron, I'll give you some. These are from me and not from Cameron's. Okay. Just wanted the council to know. Okay. Thanks. There are alternatives.
You know how to make a fun summer look, don't you?
You know how to make a fun summer look, don't you?
Actually, I was thinking that when I made it.
Actually, I was thinking that when I made it.
That would've been compensation committee meeting. Yeah.
That would've been compensation committee meeting. Yeah.
Now we have a compensation committee.
Now we have a compensation committee.
Okay. I don't know if Go for it. Alright. So, the budget committee meeting, was yesterday, and, I had been asked prior to that to try to put together some ideas about, the budget calendar for this this coming year. And so I've got one up on the screen. I had distributed one, or a couple actually yesterday to the the budget committee to get some feedback there. And so the one I've got up right now is what was draft two from yesterday. And it was trying to outline and walk through major concepts that we would have in a budget setting process and meeting some of the deadlines and addressing ideas and concepts from the Senate Bill 162. And so if I walk you through this quickly, we're just, as we said in our last meeting, we're at the cusp of getting started at this process. So before July 1 would be a time when we go through with departments kind of updating that capital improvements plan. If you recall, that has been submitted to the council with the budget so you have it in the current year plus three succeeding years. That would be updated for the current year. At least we would start that process. And then starting in July, we would start working with departments on their specific request that they want to request for the coming budget year. And we'd have those due back to the finance department by July 11 with a compilation then by the finance department including related revenues to the account executive by July 25. And this is where things started looking at maybe there were some different options and the one I have up here right now is an option for a one day budget retreat kind of concept where the departments would come to present their concept of the budget that they've worked with the County Executive on to the County Council on a one day and you'd start in the morning and you'd have a couple of breaks, you'd have a lunch and at the end of the day you'd been through all of the departments of the county. We've discussed some of the pros and cons to that. I should maybe pull it up. The other one that we had talked about and that I drafted out started on August 9 and kind of went with department presentations over a six weeks period doing about four presentations a week So there would be about an hour meeting and we looked at maybe an hour before council meeting and then in the off weeks there would be an hour budget workshop and we'd do another four departments and that would go on for six weeks from about August 9 to September 13. As we talked, and I'll jump maybe over to this document here, so those are the two options we kind of talked about there. A third option that came up yesterday was, well, what if on council meetings it was just council meeting and we did a two hour budget workshop on the off week. So instead of only having four come in, you could have eight departments come in and present their department budget request to the council. And so that would start, since August 9 was a council meeting. That would actually start the next week which would be August 16. And it still, I think, could end September 13. But you would have a two hour workshop on the weeks when you didn't have a council meeting. And that would bring in eight departments to do that. After those department presentations, what we were looking at was usually mid September to around the September 20 is when we get our quote from our insurance company for our health insurance benefits and down vision and those sorts of things. So then that can be updated into the budget towards the September and look at, presenting that then to the Council on October 11 which we also said would be a good meeting for, a statement, regarding a tax increase if there was a tax increase proposed. It came up in our meeting yesterday, however, that in talking with the County Treasurer, Craig McAllister, that he really would like to have data to the data center by October 8. And mostly, that's so they're proofing those tax notices and having having really sufficient time to get those through. And he has said that, and I I I spoke with him today as well, and Gina had talked with him yesterday. He said the eleventh potentially could work, but it just it's it can become problematic. And the data center actually really wanted it by October 1. And he says, I already negotiated the extra week. So so kind of in light of that, and and supposing that most of the work would have been done prior to that point, we wondered about revising the October those three dates here, the twenty seventh, actually would become a date where the executive made that presentation of the tentative budget to the county council in total. So that then, rather than October 11, October 11 could still be a a tax discussion if if there was a proposed tax increase. That that aspect of the eleventh wouldn't necessarily need to change. But if we present that tentative budget by the twenty seventh, it really meets all notifications. It provides our deadlines and it provides that timeframe that has been communicated by our printer to the treasurer that would be most useful. And then, so I'd move a couple of those dates up and then as far as council adopting a tentative budget and and then having public hearings, those dates could still stay in place. However, I did wanna talk about November 8. That that worked well for a public hearing. That is election day. It used to be that that'd be a major conflict, but with mail in ballots, it's not as conflicting as it used to be, but maybe it still would be your preference to not have a hearing on that date. But I would I would invite that feedback from from you guys. But this, at the end of this calendar, it was also attempting to have those hearing dates and the adoption and then the potential for any line item veto and then the counsel accepting or overriding that veto. Kind of in normal counsel, meeting business rather than having to schedule something extra if there should happen to be a a veto. Any questions? A short presentation. Any questions?
Okay. I don't know if Go for it. Alright. So, the budget committee meeting, was yesterday, and, I had been asked prior to that to try to put together some ideas about, the budget calendar for this this coming year. And so I've got one up on the screen. I had distributed one, or a couple actually yesterday to the the budget committee to get some feedback there. And so the one I've got up right now is what was draft two from yesterday. And it was trying to outline and walk through major concepts that we would have in a budget setting process and meeting some of the deadlines and addressing ideas and concepts from the Senate Bill 162. And so if I walk you through this quickly, we're just, as we said in our last meeting, we're at the cusp of getting started at this process. So before July 1 would be a time when we go through with departments kind of updating that capital improvements plan. If you recall, that has been submitted to the council with the budget so you have it in the current year plus three succeeding years. That would be updated for the current year. At least we would start that process. And then starting in July, we would start working with departments on their specific request that they want to request for the coming budget year. And we'd have those due back to the finance department by July 11 with a compilation then by the finance department including related revenues to the account executive by July 25. And this is where things started looking at maybe there were some different options and the one I have up here right now is an option for a one day budget retreat kind of concept where the departments would come to present their concept of the budget that they've worked with the County Executive on to the County Council on a one day and you'd start in the morning and you'd have a couple of breaks, you'd have a lunch and at the end of the day you'd been through all of the departments of the county. We've discussed some of the pros and cons to that. I should maybe pull it up. The other one that we had talked about and that I drafted out started on August 9 and kind of went with department presentations over a six weeks period doing about four presentations a week So there would be about an hour meeting and we looked at maybe an hour before council meeting and then in the off weeks there would be an hour budget workshop and we'd do another four departments and that would go on for six weeks from about August 9 to September 13. As we talked, and I'll jump maybe over to this document here, so those are the two options we kind of talked about there. A third option that came up yesterday was, well, what if on council meetings it was just council meeting and we did a two hour budget workshop on the off week. So instead of only having four come in, you could have eight departments come in and present their department budget request to the council. And so that would start, since August 9 was a council meeting. That would actually start the next week which would be August 16. And it still, I think, could end September 13. But you would have a two hour workshop on the weeks when you didn't have a council meeting. And that would bring in eight departments to do that. After those department presentations, what we were looking at was usually mid September to around the September 20 is when we get our quote from our insurance company for our health insurance benefits and down vision and those sorts of things. So then that can be updated into the budget towards the September and look at, presenting that then to the Council on October 11 which we also said would be a good meeting for, a statement, regarding a tax increase if there was a tax increase proposed. It came up in our meeting yesterday, however, that in talking with the County Treasurer, Craig McAllister, that he really would like to have data to the data center by October 8. And mostly, that's so they're proofing those tax notices and having having really sufficient time to get those through. And he has said that, and I I I spoke with him today as well, and Gina had talked with him yesterday. He said the eleventh potentially could work, but it just it's it can become problematic. And the data center actually really wanted it by October 1. And he says, I already negotiated the extra week. So so kind of in light of that, and and supposing that most of the work would have been done prior to that point, we wondered about revising the October those three dates here, the twenty seventh, actually would become a date where the executive made that presentation of the tentative budget to the county council in total. So that then, rather than October 11, October 11 could still be a a tax discussion if if there was a proposed tax increase. That that aspect of the eleventh wouldn't necessarily need to change. But if we present that tentative budget by the twenty seventh, it really meets all notifications. It provides our deadlines and it provides that timeframe that has been communicated by our printer to the treasurer that would be most useful. And then, so I'd move a couple of those dates up and then as far as council adopting a tentative budget and and then having public hearings, those dates could still stay in place. However, I did wanna talk about November 8. That that worked well for a public hearing. That is election day. It used to be that that'd be a major conflict, but with mail in ballots, it's not as conflicting as it used to be, but maybe it still would be your preference to not have a hearing on that date. But I would I would invite that feedback from from you guys. But this, at the end of this calendar, it was also attempting to have those hearing dates and the adoption and then the potential for any line item veto and then the counsel accepting or overriding that veto. Kind of in normal counsel, meeting business rather than having to schedule something extra if there should happen to be a a veto. Any questions? A short presentation. Any questions?
Wow. Yeah. What could I may I tell you guys about the thing I need? Cameron, do you want one of these? Yeah. That would be great. Smart hair when I passed one. And I think I got 31 or 32. Anyway, I tried to figure out what a possible schedule would look like for doing it as a council workshop on our council meeting day starting at three and going until 04:30, and giving each twelve minutes each to try to get that to fit. And we'd have to start July 12 and we'd go through September 13. And may I don't know if maybe I got extra departments that maybe can we be thinking of or anyway. A clarification, but you have maybe one department head that's over multiple departments. And so I counted individuals rather than each And each department. And I counted departments because I thought maybe each budget
Wow. Yeah. What could I may I tell you guys about the thing I need? Cameron, do you want one of these? Yeah. That would be great. Smart hair when I passed one. And I think I got 31 or 32. Anyway, I tried to figure out what a possible schedule would look like for doing it as a council workshop on our council meeting day starting at three and going until 04:30, and giving each twelve minutes each to try to get that to fit. And we'd have to start July 12 and we'd go through September 13. And may I don't know if maybe I got extra departments that maybe can we be thinking of or anyway. A clarification, but you have maybe one department head that's over multiple departments. And so I counted individuals rather than each And each department. And I counted departments because I thought maybe each budget
might take a little longer. So There is that thought process is cross my mind. We've we've talked about I'll give everybody fifteen minutes each kind of idea, but you would have, like, fifteen minutes to talk about the fair budget that's, like, $50, and you'd have fifteen minutes to talk about the sheriff's budget that's,
might take a little longer. So There is that thought process is cross my mind. We've we've talked about I'll give everybody fifteen minutes each kind of idea, but you would have, like, fifteen minutes to talk about the fair budget that's, like, $50, and you'd have fifteen minutes to talk about the sheriff's budget that's,
like 12,000,000. So That just has a lot more to it. Right? Yeah. So so there is that aspect of maybe trying to iron some of these out as well. So I just kinda threw this together just to kinda give a look and idea of maybe what we needed to do. So the top one is if we did it on council meeting days and the bottom is if we did it in the off weeks and we'd need to start August 2 and we could have a two hour meeting on the off week. That would leave council meetings open for other workshops as needed. We needed to have a workshop for something else. And it also I was thinking of Nolan and Paul. You know, sometimes it's hard for you guys to get here at the 03:00 time and thought that maybe it would be good to to do that. So that's a possible consideration. And then the second page is I kind of looked at the calendar that, Cameron had made and kind of thought of some other stuff. For instance, on July 11, when the department has filed budget requests with finance, that new state law says that act those actually get to go to the county council as well. And so I don't know what the reason would be that those forms can't also just be forwarded to the council, why it would need to take several days to get to us. And then, one of the things too that we hadn't talked about is what is, with the new law saying that the council, can have participation in the creation of the tentative budget, We didn't really say exactly what our participation would be. So we're gonna hear from these department heads. I assume that we're going to then say, okay, I like that or we like that, but we wanna change this, we wanna change that, we'd like to see this in the tentative budget. Since we're working with the executive, I think he would be able to say the same thing as we need to work together to put the tentative budget. I also put for August 9 getting workbooks to the council. That's usually when we get them, if I remember correctly, and that's the draft tentative budget. So it's not the tentative budget, it's a draft, as I understand. Right. And I think it's important that we still have those so that we can look through those and see what's what's going on. In talking with Craig McAllister yesterday, as as you mentioned, Cameron, he was hoping that by September 27, the council would know if we wanted to raise the tax rate above the certified tax rate. So I put that on there. I'm tax rate. So I put that on there on September 27 so that he could get the stuff done to mail the tax notices out by October 8. October 25, of course, is the deadline that if we are going to raise taxes above the certified tax rate, that we have to have a specific statement that we give in the council meeting. So that deadline is the twenty fifth. So I added that on there as well. So I think the rest we kind of already covered, but so I just present this as maybe some other ideas of what we might want to do of the council.
like 12,000,000. So That just has a lot more to it. Right? Yeah. So so there is that aspect of maybe trying to iron some of these out as well. So I just kinda threw this together just to kinda give a look and idea of maybe what we needed to do. So the top one is if we did it on council meeting days and the bottom is if we did it in the off weeks and we'd need to start August 2 and we could have a two hour meeting on the off week. That would leave council meetings open for other workshops as needed. We needed to have a workshop for something else. And it also I was thinking of Nolan and Paul. You know, sometimes it's hard for you guys to get here at the 03:00 time and thought that maybe it would be good to to do that. So that's a possible consideration. And then the second page is I kind of looked at the calendar that, Cameron had made and kind of thought of some other stuff. For instance, on July 11, when the department has filed budget requests with finance, that new state law says that act those actually get to go to the county council as well. And so I don't know what the reason would be that those forms can't also just be forwarded to the council, why it would need to take several days to get to us. And then, one of the things too that we hadn't talked about is what is, with the new law saying that the council, can have participation in the creation of the tentative budget, We didn't really say exactly what our participation would be. So we're gonna hear from these department heads. I assume that we're going to then say, okay, I like that or we like that, but we wanna change this, we wanna change that, we'd like to see this in the tentative budget. Since we're working with the executive, I think he would be able to say the same thing as we need to work together to put the tentative budget. I also put for August 9 getting workbooks to the council. That's usually when we get them, if I remember correctly, and that's the draft tentative budget. So it's not the tentative budget, it's a draft, as I understand. Right. And I think it's important that we still have those so that we can look through those and see what's what's going on. In talking with Craig McAllister yesterday, as as you mentioned, Cameron, he was hoping that by September 27, the council would know if we wanted to raise the tax rate above the certified tax rate. So I put that on there. I'm tax rate. So I put that on there on September 27 so that he could get the stuff done to mail the tax notices out by October 8. October 25, of course, is the deadline that if we are going to raise taxes above the certified tax rate, that we have to have a specific statement that we give in the council meeting. So that deadline is the twenty fifth. So I added that on there as well. So I think the rest we kind of already covered, but so I just present this as maybe some other ideas of what we might want to do of the council.
Do we have there's been open space advisory committee meetings talking about whether we'll bond for something, and also isn't Cache County School talking about something that way too? I would like to get a really good idea of where we're looking at on some of those bonds.
Do we have there's been open space advisory committee meetings talking about whether we'll bond for something, and also isn't Cache County School talking about something that way too? I would like to get a really good idea of where we're looking at on some of those bonds.
Jack Drexler contacted me, and he wants to do a presentation on the fourteenth and tell us what that survey brought up. Remember, he's gonna send out the survey, so we should get a little bit more information, be able to visit with him a little bit more on June 14. Camino del Cascay County School, is that definite?
Jack Drexler contacted me, and he wants to do a presentation on the fourteenth and tell us what that survey brought up. Remember, he's gonna send out the survey, so we should get a little bit more information, be able to visit with him a little bit more on June 14. Camino del Cascay County School, is that definite?
I haven't heard. Last time I tried to call the guy, he was out of town, and then he never got back with me, and I forgot. Last time we talked to them, they had not decided yet. But in that open budget committee, they said that that was
I haven't heard. Last time I tried to call the guy, he was out of town, and then he never got back with me, and I forgot. Last time we talked to them, they had not decided yet. But in that open budget committee, they said that that was
one of the meetings I attended. They said the County School District was pretty much back on on doing one, aren't they? That's what I've heard,
one of the meetings I attended. They said the County School District was pretty much back on on doing one, aren't they? That's what I've heard,
but I I think we checked two weeks ago, and they said they still had not decided for sure. I think they're wondering if we're going to do this bond too because they don't think both are gonna pass, and so it's kind of like who's doing what and who's gonna put Well, and I I would like to know that too as we're going through this stuff, so especially with the way the
but I I think we checked two weeks ago, and they said they still had not decided for sure. I think they're wondering if we're going to do this bond too because they don't think both are gonna pass, and so it's kind of like who's doing what and who's gonna put Well, and I I would like to know that too as we're going through this stuff, so especially with the way the
world economics is going. So Excuse my ignorance. What
world economics is going. So Excuse my ignorance. What
does the Cache County School District have to do with an open lands?
does the Cache County School District have to do with an open lands?
Just the fact of two bonds coming out for an election is the only thing. They went to Bonster Middle School. Oh, so okay. They're it.
Just the fact of two bonds coming out for an election is the only thing. They went to Bonster Middle School. Oh, so okay. They're it.
and renewal of the RAPS tax. Yes. Restraint tax. You know, that that has to is to a on the balance sheet this year. That this year? Because How often does that come up? Every ten years as I recall. Yeah. I thought this is the year renewal on that. That's right. Which I haven't heard a thing about. So, you know, we this is the year, but we we need that needs to be part of this dialogue that we are preparing for for this this year. Good point.
and renewal of the RAPS tax. Yes. Restraint tax. You know, that that has to is to a on the balance sheet this year. That this year? Because How often does that come up? Every ten years as I recall. Yeah. I thought this is the year renewal on that. That's right. Which I haven't heard a thing about. So, you know, we this is the year, but we we need that needs to be part of this dialogue that we are preparing for for this this year. Good point.
So I don't I don't as far as the wrap status goes, I don't know what stage that's at. I drafted some proposed changes and then turned that over to, we talked about with the attorneys, I think it's in ordinance and review as far as I know. I haven't heard anything back. I don't think it's made in towards the city. We haven't seen it yet. Okay, so I I don't know what stage that's at. I I don't know if that's we do this year? Yes. Yeah. Okay.
So I don't I don't as far as the wrap status goes, I don't know what stage that's at. I drafted some proposed changes and then turned that over to, we talked about with the attorneys, I think it's in ordinance and review as far as I know. I haven't heard anything back. I don't think it's made in towards the city. We haven't seen it yet. Okay, so I I don't know what stage that's at. I I don't know if that's we do this year? Yes. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. So there's three things that, you know Weigh on this too. Generally speaking, I know school district kinda likes to do their own things some other time, and it's usually at the busiest time of the year. They they wanna do it at the busiest time of the year when fewer people are even in the valley. So they like to hit usually, theirs occurs in June. You know, they try to have a a special election.
Yeah. So there's three things that, you know Weigh on this too. Generally speaking, I know school district kinda likes to do their own things some other time, and it's usually at the busiest time of the year. They they wanna do it at the busiest time of the year when fewer people are even in the valley. So they like to hit usually, theirs occurs in June. You know, they try to have a a special election.
But I We haven't heard anything about that. Okay. Any questions or comments for Cameron or any discussion we want to have?
But I We haven't heard anything about that. Okay. Any questions or comments for Cameron or any discussion we want to have?
Now, all these presentations I'm I think these presentations be great. I mean, we can, you know, bed them. We can ask questions. But will we get their presentations or will we get their proposals before that meeting? Or is that gonna meeting? Or is that gonna be the first time we even see
Now, all these presentations I'm I think these presentations be great. I mean, we can, you know, bed them. We can ask questions. But will we get their presentations or will we get their proposals before that meeting? Or is that gonna meeting? Or is that gonna be the first time we even see
it? Before like, if we before these meetings are being proposed right now? Yes. Well, for example, when
it? Before like, if we before these meetings are being proposed right now? Yes. Well, for example, when
Sean, I'll pick on you. When economic development comes in, talks to us, will we have his proposals so we can actually Yeah. That that that's the concept I had in mind.
Sean, I'll pick on you. When economic development comes in, talks to us, will we have his proposals so we can actually Yeah. That that that's the concept I had in mind.
If we do something as early as July 12, probably not. That's that's pretty early to come in and say I mean, they can come in and say, hey, maybe it would be okay with Sean. Maybe Sean would say, yep, I know exactly what I wanna do next year. But for for every department had to have turned in their budget request and and for my office to have that compiled to turn around and submit to everyone, that's pretty early. We haven't done that as early as July 12 in the past. That has been in August. That has been done in August in the past. If we and as a department head, I might even say, I appreciate, actually, the opportunity to discuss that with the executive before I bring it to council. It can be a little awkward, and I don't anticipate this on my part. But if I came in and said, hey, council, here's my budget proposal, And and you'd take a look at that and think, wow. This is this is just way out of line and this is nuts. I don't like it at all. So then I turn to the executive and say, hey. What do you think? He's like, yeah. I think it's ridiculous too. Then I just I just totally, completely, didn't have that opportunity to vet that out with the person who has been charged to present this budget. So, as a department head, I I kind of value that opportunity to say, here's here's what I'm thinking and upfront, I've got maybe the council communicates priorities even of budget objectives you may have. Executive can communicate that to the departments. And then I come up and say, here's my best attempt at that initially. I would appreciate the opportunity to review that with the executive since it's the executive who's then gonna turn and say, okay, counsel, here is the budget that I'm proposing. I'd like to have his input on what my proposal is before I present that to counsel. If we don't do it after that matter and the counsel has it immediately, I think that that lessens the value of of the executive, any executive being the finance officer for the budget process. Well, I'm after so
If we do something as early as July 12, probably not. That's that's pretty early to come in and say I mean, they can come in and say, hey, maybe it would be okay with Sean. Maybe Sean would say, yep, I know exactly what I wanna do next year. But for for every department had to have turned in their budget request and and for my office to have that compiled to turn around and submit to everyone, that's pretty early. We haven't done that as early as July 12 in the past. That has been in August. That has been done in August in the past. If we and as a department head, I might even say, I appreciate, actually, the opportunity to discuss that with the executive before I bring it to council. It can be a little awkward, and I don't anticipate this on my part. But if I came in and said, hey, council, here's my budget proposal, And and you'd take a look at that and think, wow. This is this is just way out of line and this is nuts. I don't like it at all. So then I turn to the executive and say, hey. What do you think? He's like, yeah. I think it's ridiculous too. Then I just I just totally, completely, didn't have that opportunity to vet that out with the person who has been charged to present this budget. So, as a department head, I I kind of value that opportunity to say, here's here's what I'm thinking and upfront, I've got maybe the council communicates priorities even of budget objectives you may have. Executive can communicate that to the departments. And then I come up and say, here's my best attempt at that initially. I would appreciate the opportunity to review that with the executive since it's the executive who's then gonna turn and say, okay, counsel, here is the budget that I'm proposing. I'd like to have his input on what my proposal is before I present that to counsel. If we don't do it after that matter and the counsel has it immediately, I think that that lessens the value of of the executive, any executive being the finance officer for the budget process. Well, I'm after so
I I want to be able to look at something and put some questions and everything down as to what we're going to see. Yeah. Sure. Say, hey. Why this? What's going on? What's your rationale? I'd like to look at those things. I think you should have that. They come in and and press present that
I I want to be able to look at something and put some questions and everything down as to what we're going to see. Yeah. Sure. Say, hey. Why this? What's going on? What's your rationale? I'd like to look at those things. I think you should have that. They come in and and press present that
that, then to get us on the same page. So, what I'm saying is, and and kind of the way I'd outlined the, calendar is to give that time to work on those. You wouldn't be getting the budget all at once necessarily. The official presentation, I think we both agreed September 27 would be the official, here's the turnover of the ten year budget from the executive to the council, when is your budget to work with in any way you see fit at that point. But certainly taking feedback before that point and presentation before that point, all I'm saying is July 12 is a bit early in my opinion to begin that process. I think in August timeline is better. To give department heads the opportunity to really think through what they want to present, to give my office time to compile that and to tabulate what revenues would be required, if this is what everybody's going to propose, we partly will know whether that indicates a tax increase or not and we can take a look at it initially and say, hey, why don't you go back and cut some of that because that's not really what we're favoring at this point. And you have some time to work on that and feel comfortable with that as it's presented to counsel. I do think when we look at the state code seventeen thirty six ten as Gina was bringing up, section two of that, or maybe it's paragraph two of that section, talks about the Department files that statement of revenues and expenditures with the finance officer, and it also does stipulate that that statement be provided to the council. It doesn't stipulate that that happens exactly at the same time or that that statement is the initial draft from a department head. That's something that can be worked on and and agreed on with the executive
that, then to get us on the same page. So, what I'm saying is, and and kind of the way I'd outlined the, calendar is to give that time to work on those. You wouldn't be getting the budget all at once necessarily. The official presentation, I think we both agreed September 27 would be the official, here's the turnover of the ten year budget from the executive to the council, when is your budget to work with in any way you see fit at that point. But certainly taking feedback before that point and presentation before that point, all I'm saying is July 12 is a bit early in my opinion to begin that process. I think in August timeline is better. To give department heads the opportunity to really think through what they want to present, to give my office time to compile that and to tabulate what revenues would be required, if this is what everybody's going to propose, we partly will know whether that indicates a tax increase or not and we can take a look at it initially and say, hey, why don't you go back and cut some of that because that's not really what we're favoring at this point. And you have some time to work on that and feel comfortable with that as it's presented to counsel. I do think when we look at the state code seventeen thirty six ten as Gina was bringing up, section two of that, or maybe it's paragraph two of that section, talks about the Department files that statement of revenues and expenditures with the finance officer, and it also does stipulate that that statement be provided to the council. It doesn't stipulate that that happens exactly at the same time or that that statement is the initial draft from a department head. That's something that can be worked on and and agreed on with the executive
as it's provided to council. Proposal will be
as it's provided to council. Proposal will be
then So the final proposal would come later. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then we're
then So the final proposal would come later. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then we're
then in two weeks, as soon as we get that, we'll have two weeks in to make a decision on thinking on if we might raise tax No. Hopefully hopefully,
then in two weeks, as soon as we get that, we'll have two weeks in to make a decision on thinking on if we might raise tax No. Hopefully hopefully,
these presentations, again, I think they can happen before September 27, just maybe not July 12 is all I'm saying. But I would hope that before that time, you are well aware of whether there's a tax increase proposed in here or not and that you're well aware of the major reasons why there would be a tax increase proposed or not. I don't think that that should come to you as a surprise at September 27. I think that participation does happen long before September And even if right now the mindset of the council is we don't wanna see a tax increase, that's important for us to have that right now and know that right now. If that was all decided right now, that's better for all the department has to know that than it is to work on something.
these presentations, again, I think they can happen before September 27, just maybe not July 12 is all I'm saying. But I would hope that before that time, you are well aware of whether there's a tax increase proposed in here or not and that you're well aware of the major reasons why there would be a tax increase proposed or not. I don't think that that should come to you as a surprise at September 27. I think that participation does happen long before September And even if right now the mindset of the council is we don't wanna see a tax increase, that's important for us to have that right now and know that right now. If that was all decided right now, that's better for all the department has to know that than it is to work on something.
I'd be happy to vote on that right now with the amount of money that we've got floating around from all this COVID stuff. In fact, I read an article today. It was something to the tune of $350,000,000,000.
I'd be happy to vote on that right now with the amount of money that we've got floating around from all this COVID stuff. In fact, I read an article today. It was something to the tune of $350,000,000,000.
Yeah. For counties. We raise taxes today.
Yeah. For counties. We raise taxes today.
We make drunken sailors on shore leave look like responsible citizens. Period.
We make drunken sailors on shore leave look like responsible citizens. Period.
Yeah. End of story. Yeah. Cameron, I want a question. I I disagree with you about what you're saying. Okay. On two a, I, double I, or I think that's what it's like. Two a
Yeah. End of story. Yeah. Cameron, I want a question. I I disagree with you about what you're saying. Okay. On two a, I, double I, or I think that's what it's like. Two a
two is where Two c There would where the finance officer shall make the estimate and statement described in subsection two a available to you, and it includes the county council. Yeah. So statement, it says is is filled out on forms that are provided.
two is where Two c There would where the finance officer shall make the estimate and statement described in subsection two a available to you, and it includes the county council. Yeah. So statement, it says is is filled out on forms that are provided.
It's a it's a statement, and it to me, it sounds like it's that exact statement that is turned in by the department heads, not something that then has been taken and synthesized into some formal document. No. I I agree with you. And I would like to see this. I want to clarify. No. I I agree with what you just said, and I wanna clarify then what you're hearing from me. Okay. I I and I've even redesigned some forms to make it clear so that it is very clear that the same thing the departments are filing with the executive are being filed with the council. But the same way we pulled up here and we said, well, here's some ideas. Let's talk about it. And I've got draft one and draft two on a budget calendar. I think it's useful for a department to say, here's my initial draft of this statement. And I want to review that with the executive before I finalize that statement and make the official filing with the executive and with the counsel. And I've been here for eighteen years and whether that was Lynn Lemon or Craig Butters or David Zook, as a department, I find that a useful activity to go through before I present to counsel. And the reason I find that is because it's it's that it's that global look, and I know that then when I'm presenting to counsel that I have support from the executives so that if, there's disagreement on what should or shouldn't be in a budget presentation, I know that I'm not just out there on a limb on my own. I know that I have the backing of the executive with me and that's who I report to. Elected officers, maybe it's a little bit different. They stand a little bit more on their own than a lot of us other department heads do. But still, it is kind of useful to have that time to work through the draft. And so, if you go through that section ten, one a says that the executive, or I'm interpreting a little bit, but in our county's case, the executive files that tentative budget with the council. That means the executive owns that until it's filed with the council. But that's not what the new law says. The new law says the council may participate. It does not say the council may direct or authorize until the executive gives that to the council. At that point, it belongs to the council, and the council can do what it will with it. Because it says participate in the creation of It is participation. To come in and present, to ask input,
It's a it's a statement, and it to me, it sounds like it's that exact statement that is turned in by the department heads, not something that then has been taken and synthesized into some formal document. No. I I agree with you. And I would like to see this. I want to clarify. No. I I agree with what you just said, and I wanna clarify then what you're hearing from me. Okay. I I and I've even redesigned some forms to make it clear so that it is very clear that the same thing the departments are filing with the executive are being filed with the council. But the same way we pulled up here and we said, well, here's some ideas. Let's talk about it. And I've got draft one and draft two on a budget calendar. I think it's useful for a department to say, here's my initial draft of this statement. And I want to review that with the executive before I finalize that statement and make the official filing with the executive and with the counsel. And I've been here for eighteen years and whether that was Lynn Lemon or Craig Butters or David Zook, as a department, I find that a useful activity to go through before I present to counsel. And the reason I find that is because it's it's that it's that global look, and I know that then when I'm presenting to counsel that I have support from the executives so that if, there's disagreement on what should or shouldn't be in a budget presentation, I know that I'm not just out there on a limb on my own. I know that I have the backing of the executive with me and that's who I report to. Elected officers, maybe it's a little bit different. They stand a little bit more on their own than a lot of us other department heads do. But still, it is kind of useful to have that time to work through the draft. And so, if you go through that section ten, one a says that the executive, or I'm interpreting a little bit, but in our county's case, the executive files that tentative budget with the council. That means the executive owns that until it's filed with the council. But that's not what the new law says. The new law says the council may participate. It does not say the council may direct or authorize until the executive gives that to the council. At that point, it belongs to the council, and the council can do what it will with it. Because it says participate in the creation of It is participation. To come in and present, to ask input,
is participation. When I talked to the state auditor as we did SB 162, that was not the intent. The intent was that the county council would actually participate in the creation of the budget, which does not mean we just come in and listen, and the executive puts it together. It together. It means that we work together to put it together. That's what creation means. I'm gonna I'm gonna have to disagree because there's not really anything it's really not doing anything different. If it's in this so that law changes it. That's what I'm trying to say is we participate now in the creation of the tentative budget.
is participation. When I talked to the state auditor as we did SB 162, that was not the intent. The intent was that the county council would actually participate in the creation of the budget, which does not mean we just come in and listen, and the executive puts it together. It together. It means that we work together to put it together. That's what creation means. I'm gonna I'm gonna have to disagree because there's not really anything it's really not doing anything different. If it's in this so that law changes it. That's what I'm trying to say is we participate now in the creation of the tentative budget.
That's what we're asking. That. And I and I agree with that. And the state auditor's office had said has also said that that budget belongs to the executive until it's filed with the council. That's what the law says right here in seventeen thirty six ten one a. That's what it says. And that requirement is November 1 for that matter. Participation is is that we are presenting to you. We are asking feedback before we turn it to you. That is creating the tentative budget. That is you have every opportunity to have every question answered that you want. You have every opportunity to provide objectives and and priorities that you want to see in that budget. But the law still says that that budget belongs to the executive until it is filed with the county council.
That's what we're asking. That. And I and I agree with that. And the state auditor's office had said has also said that that budget belongs to the executive until it's filed with the council. That's what the law says right here in seventeen thirty six ten one a. That's what it says. And that requirement is November 1 for that matter. Participation is is that we are presenting to you. We are asking feedback before we turn it to you. That is creating the tentative budget. That is you have every opportunity to have every question answered that you want. You have every opportunity to provide objectives and and priorities that you want to see in that budget. But the law still says that that budget belongs to the executive until it is filed with the county council.
I don't see anywhere where it says it belongs to the executive. I pointed it out at 07:36,
I don't see anywhere where it says it belongs to the executive. I pointed it out at 07:36,
seventeen thirty six, ten one, on or before the first day of the next to last month of every fiscal period, the finance officer, under definitions as the executive, shall prepare for the next budget period and file with the governing body a tentative budget for each fund for which a budget is required. And then number two says, during the preparation of a tentative budget, described in subsection one a, the following may participate in the creation
seventeen thirty six, ten one, on or before the first day of the next to last month of every fiscal period, the finance officer, under definitions as the executive, shall prepare for the next budget period and file with the governing body a tentative budget for each fund for which a budget is required. And then number two says, during the preparation of a tentative budget, described in subsection one a, the following may participate in the creation
may, it's up to us. We're saying we wanna participate. We may participate in the creation of the tentative budget for county executive council form of government, the county council, and the county executive. So
may, it's up to us. We're saying we wanna participate. We may participate in the creation of the tentative budget for county executive council form of government, the county council, and the county executive. So
so I wish some of these questions had come up yesterday so that I'm a little more prepared than being called out on the carpet on a presentation. We had that's why we talked about it yesterday. Well, we hadn't had a chance to look at what hit you together yesterday. You've looked at this law long before yesterday. Clearly, you've stated that many times. Participation is what we're trying to accomplish here. If on July 12 we can come in on July 12. If that's if the council says, yep, we want we want people here on July 12, that's fine. I'm just trying to tell you that that report on July 12 is not gonna be as meaningful to the department, to you, to the executive, to anybody as if we give it time to be worked on and present it in August. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you can't participate. I'm not saying we won't give statements over as the law requires. I'm not saying that we won't meet. Every letter of that law, we will meet, but it will be less meaningful the earlier you try to make it. Until, if you recall years ago, we tried to establish a budget committee in order to look at a budget plan moving forward. So we had a longer look at many of those issues. We've kind of been hijacked in the budget committee by COVID nineteen, and everything's been about CARES Act, everything's been about ARPA, but we've been trying to have participation all along, nothing new. We have tried to participate in the past. We wanna participate now. We wanna participate in the future. That's not new. I just don't think participation means you want all that information before really it's ready for you to receive it. So, Cameron, what I think you're trying to say is July 12 is too early
so I wish some of these questions had come up yesterday so that I'm a little more prepared than being called out on the carpet on a presentation. We had that's why we talked about it yesterday. Well, we hadn't had a chance to look at what hit you together yesterday. You've looked at this law long before yesterday. Clearly, you've stated that many times. Participation is what we're trying to accomplish here. If on July 12 we can come in on July 12. If that's if the council says, yep, we want we want people here on July 12, that's fine. I'm just trying to tell you that that report on July 12 is not gonna be as meaningful to the department, to you, to the executive, to anybody as if we give it time to be worked on and present it in August. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you can't participate. I'm not saying we won't give statements over as the law requires. I'm not saying that we won't meet. Every letter of that law, we will meet, but it will be less meaningful the earlier you try to make it. Until, if you recall years ago, we tried to establish a budget committee in order to look at a budget plan moving forward. So we had a longer look at many of those issues. We've kind of been hijacked in the budget committee by COVID nineteen, and everything's been about CARES Act, everything's been about ARPA, but we've been trying to have participation all along, nothing new. We have tried to participate in the past. We wanna participate now. We wanna participate in the future. That's not new. I just don't think participation means you want all that information before really it's ready for you to receive it. So, Cameron, what I think you're trying to say is July 12 is too early
to have the information to be presented to us, but we can still participate as much as we want and look at things as much as we want. But you want to move the date
to have the information to be presented to us, but we can still participate as much as we want and look at things as much as we want. But you want to move the date
from July 12 to what for the Oh, I'm suggest of these two that that were proposed here, I'm suggesting that on the bottom that makes more sense, that August 2 Yeah. Those presentations
from July 12 to what for the Oh, I'm suggest of these two that that were proposed here, I'm suggesting that on the bottom that makes more sense, that August 2 Yeah. Those presentations
makes more sense than July 12. That's what that's really all I'm saying. Okay. That's and that's what I'm getting from you. You're not telling us we can't participate. Not at all. It's just that you're telling us that you want to move the date a little bit on that. And if we're willing to, you know, and I don't see any reason that we can't move the date a little bit.
makes more sense than July 12. That's what that's really all I'm saying. Okay. That's and that's what I'm getting from you. You're not telling us we can't participate. Not at all. It's just that you're telling us that you want to move the date a little bit on that. And if we're willing to, you know, and I don't see any reason that we can't move the date a little bit.
One thing, Madam Chair, that you know as well as I do sitting on the compensation committee, we just absolutely, a lot of times, can't get the insurance numbers. Exactly. Those won't come in close September. Yeah. And so we'll have an update in September. Oh, where we're gonna sit with insurance, and insurance is one of the major expenditures that we have. Mhmm. And then we can't get that until the carriers and that all come forth and we all just kind of sit there anxious waiting for that to come because we don't have to raise a whole bunch of compensation for the employees. It's it's a pretty sweet deal. We had that last year. I don't know where we're going to be this year, but it it doesn't come very quick. It No. It doesn't. Drags on into September as I recall. Mhmm. I mean, we're gonna meet in June as a compensation committee for the first time, but we won't have the final numbers on the insurance part of that until, you know, later on.
One thing, Madam Chair, that you know as well as I do sitting on the compensation committee, we just absolutely, a lot of times, can't get the insurance numbers. Exactly. Those won't come in close September. Yeah. And so we'll have an update in September. Oh, where we're gonna sit with insurance, and insurance is one of the major expenditures that we have. Mhmm. And then we can't get that until the carriers and that all come forth and we all just kind of sit there anxious waiting for that to come because we don't have to raise a whole bunch of compensation for the employees. It's it's a pretty sweet deal. We had that last year. I don't know where we're going to be this year, but it it doesn't come very quick. It No. It doesn't. Drags on into September as I recall. Mhmm. I mean, we're gonna meet in June as a compensation committee for the first time, but we won't have the final numbers on the insurance part of that until, you know, later on.
Madam chair? Yes. I think the question that council member Worthen asked is is an important question. I I feel like I need to know the answer to that as well. I'm wondering if our attorney has an opinion about it or if you could ask him to research it if he does already. Which question? I think the the question I heard council member Worthen asked was, what does that mean? Participate. To participate in the
Madam chair? Yes. I think the question that council member Worthen asked is is an important question. I I feel like I need to know the answer to that as well. I'm wondering if our attorney has an opinion about it or if you could ask him to research it if he does already. Which question? I think the the question I heard council member Worthen asked was, what does that mean? Participate. To participate in the
The the the first what what Cameron cited initially in seventeen thirty six ten, subsection one
The the the first what what Cameron cited initially in seventeen thirty six ten, subsection one
So what does creating, helping in the creation mean then? What does that mean? Because creating means, right, John? It means that you're organizing, you're putting things together, and you're making something out of nothing.
So what does creating, helping in the creation mean then? What does that mean? Because creating means, right, John? It means that you're organizing, you're putting things together, and you're making something out of nothing.
So what does that mean then? That's what's confusing to me. Well, the key phrase there that's to add to the statute as a main participant. I've gone and listened to the committee meetings, we are left with the language. I've listened to the all the floor debates On SB 162?
So what does that mean then? That's what's confusing to me. Well, the key phrase there that's to add to the statute as a main participant. I've gone and listened to the committee meetings, we are left with the language. I've listened to the all the floor debates On SB 162?
Yes. There were no debates in committee. I was there.
Yes. There were no debates in committee. I was there.
Which is what I'm saying. There were no there was no debate. You're exactly right.
Which is what I'm saying. There were no there was no debate. You're exactly right.
It's Okay. I'm just making sure that I'm not misunderstanding. Okay. Let him talk. There is debate and explanation
It's Okay. I'm just making sure that I'm not misunderstanding. Okay. Let him talk. There is debate and explanation
in a committee meeting or on the floor that explains the language that's being adopted. So that when there are questions like this, That help us know what may participate in this course to me. So that leads judges and attorneys to use a plain language interpretation. And a plain language interpretation of that says, finance officers shall prepare and file, and counsel may participate. I cannot read that to mean that counsel may direct the process and the executive may follow along. That's just not how the language is. The executive is to prepare and then file, and the council may participate in that process. Well, just just from a And it sounds to me like there's an effort being made here by Cameron to say,
in a committee meeting or on the floor that explains the language that's being adopted. So that when there are questions like this, That help us know what may participate in this course to me. So that leads judges and attorneys to use a plain language interpretation. And a plain language interpretation of that says, finance officers shall prepare and file, and counsel may participate. I cannot read that to mean that counsel may direct the process and the executive may follow along. That's just not how the language is. The executive is to prepare and then file, and the council may participate in that process. Well, just just from a And it sounds to me like there's an effort being made here by Cameron to say,
And really from a practical standpoint, it would be extremely cumbersome and difficult to have a budget prepared by seven council members with the with the limited amount of information that we have. We simply don't know what each department needs are going to be on a detailed basis. Like like the executive would have, like the like Cameron's office would have, and we just don't know. It would be exceptionally cumbersome. We we you you have two two hours set out here. We we would probably need to be here twelve hours each day in order to digest all of that information in that much detail to for the council to create a budget.
And really from a practical standpoint, it would be extremely cumbersome and difficult to have a budget prepared by seven council members with the with the limited amount of information that we have. We simply don't know what each department needs are going to be on a detailed basis. Like like the executive would have, like the like Cameron's office would have, and we just don't know. It would be exceptionally cumbersome. We we you you have two two hours set out here. We we would probably need to be here twelve hours each day in order to digest all of that information in that much detail to for the council to create a budget.
If I could just say to I value your input. Our department heads value your input. Cameron does. It's important for us to know what your what your thoughts are on the budget. If we use Sean again, if Sean comes in here and says he wants to create a program and the council says they're not supportive of it, that's important for us to know. Then if you already know that the council is not supportive of that, then it would be a waste of time for us to put in a budget. If we already know that the council is not supportive of a tax increase, then we should know that ahead of time, we can build the budget accordingly. So I absolutely want your input, and I I think it's good for us to go through these meetings and have these discussions and get your input.
If I could just say to I value your input. Our department heads value your input. Cameron does. It's important for us to know what your what your thoughts are on the budget. If we use Sean again, if Sean comes in here and says he wants to create a program and the council says they're not supportive of it, that's important for us to know. Then if you already know that the council is not supportive of that, then it would be a waste of time for us to put in a budget. If we already know that the council is not supportive of a tax increase, then we should know that ahead of time, we can build the budget accordingly. So I absolutely want your input, and I I think it's good for us to go through these meetings and have these discussions and get your input.
It. I agree with Carl. I've not done a budget for a county, but we worked on budgets for the bank. And, they it took time to go through everything and I personally don't have enough time to go through each department and and look at every little line that they want to do. I appreciate that they are going to present it to us and I agree with councilman Erickson. I would like that information ahead of time not having a presented at the night the meeting we're gonna look at it. I want it ahead of time so that I know what we're going to be discussing, but I agree with Carl. It's very time consuming.
It. I agree with Carl. I've not done a budget for a county, but we worked on budgets for the bank. And, they it took time to go through everything and I personally don't have enough time to go through each department and and look at every little line that they want to do. I appreciate that they are going to present it to us and I agree with councilman Erickson. I would like that information ahead of time not having a presented at the night the meeting we're gonna look at it. I want it ahead of time so that I know what we're going to be discussing, but I agree with Carl. It's very time consuming.
I know as I've sat on the council and went through a lot of different budgets in that, I can remember every one of the department heads sitting down with our executives and executive what they had in their budget, and sometimes it got nixed before, you know, it even got past the executive. And then after that, then we got to see it as a council. And I think what we're trying to we're trying to say is we'd like to have it maybe sooner, and we'd like to have it before we actually have those people come before us. Exactly. And I think that's possible because before they come before us, executive Zickel have reviewed it, and he can forward that information to us or Cameron can prior to the meeting because not every one of those departments are gonna come in the same day. So, you know, they know which ones are coming, and they can work on that one first. But I as I understand the law, the the executive or the president of The United States or whoever it is, they present a budget, and then the council in our case or the the representatives in this in The United States, you know, go over it. They're the ones that spend them they're the ones that, you know, approve the budget. They're the ones that spend the money, or they don't spend the money, but they approve it to be spent. So I I guess we're not too far off, but maybe we just wanna say that we'd like to have information from departments that's gonna come before us, you know, a week before they come so we have time to look at it. And I don't I don't think there's any problem with that, is there? No. That's that's not at all a problem. He said, if you look at this list, there's only, you know, there's quite a few of them on Sundays, not as many on other days, but we can have that information.
I know as I've sat on the council and went through a lot of different budgets in that, I can remember every one of the department heads sitting down with our executives and executive what they had in their budget, and sometimes it got nixed before, you know, it even got past the executive. And then after that, then we got to see it as a council. And I think what we're trying to we're trying to say is we'd like to have it maybe sooner, and we'd like to have it before we actually have those people come before us. Exactly. And I think that's possible because before they come before us, executive Zickel have reviewed it, and he can forward that information to us or Cameron can prior to the meeting because not every one of those departments are gonna come in the same day. So, you know, they know which ones are coming, and they can work on that one first. But I as I understand the law, the the executive or the president of The United States or whoever it is, they present a budget, and then the council in our case or the the representatives in this in The United States, you know, go over it. They're the ones that spend them they're the ones that, you know, approve the budget. They're the ones that spend the money, or they don't spend the money, but they approve it to be spent. So I I guess we're not too far off, but maybe we just wanna say that we'd like to have information from departments that's gonna come before us, you know, a week before they come so we have time to look at it. And I don't I don't think there's any problem with that, is there? No. That's that's not at all a problem. He said, if you look at this list, there's only, you know, there's quite a few of them on Sundays, not as many on other days, but we can have that information.
Let me let me ask maybe a clarifying question. So before one of the first issues that came up is that I had counted out department heads and elected officials versus each department unit that they supervise. So in my case, I'm over financed. But in the case of the sheriff, he's got a patrol division, he's got a jail division, and so forth. Do you want a time slot for each one of those divisions so the sheriff ends up having more time, or do you wanna just talk to the sheriff for a certain amount? I think the sheriff would represent the people that are under him as well. I would look at it. I I would look at that way too. I mean, just have the department heads. I mean, rather than having a department head who's over
Let me let me ask maybe a clarifying question. So before one of the first issues that came up is that I had counted out department heads and elected officials versus each department unit that they supervise. So in my case, I'm over financed. But in the case of the sheriff, he's got a patrol division, he's got a jail division, and so forth. Do you want a time slot for each one of those divisions so the sheriff ends up having more time, or do you wanna just talk to the sheriff for a certain amount? I think the sheriff would represent the people that are under him as well. I would look at it. I I would look at that way too. I mean, just have the department heads. I mean, rather than having a department head who's over
this area and this area have to present twice.
this area and this area have to present twice.
I think this whole process is to me, it's you know, we're we're talking about the degree of participation. K? I think that more participation is probably better, you know, so that nothing's withheld from us as we go along. So we do under understand that process as we the
I think this whole process is to me, it's you know, we're we're talking about the degree of participation. K? I think that more participation is probably better, you know, so that nothing's withheld from us as we go along. So we do under understand that process as we the
then you don't have to have another book,
then you don't have to have another book,
which I have all these copies, you know, in the home. Right. And they're just downright boring, but, you know, they're you you enjoy it. Depends on who you are. But even last year, we have two books. Yeah. You know, because You have to update it. Give it to us once and then all of a sudden, you know, there's a technical foul and and we got it a second book. But at that point, then, I guess, then you're you are then under our you know, if it's our if that's our budget at that point Yes. Then we direct you what to do you what to do. So any amendment you wanna make to that that point, I would file it and present it to you, and you guys would vote on it. Okay. But to get to that point, what we are seeking, what I'm seeking is the understanding of each department. That we don't have these big surprises Right. Later, which I you know, we had the same questions last year. You know, the the MISC accounts.
which I have all these copies, you know, in the home. Right. And they're just downright boring, but, you know, they're you you enjoy it. Depends on who you are. But even last year, we have two books. Yeah. You know, because You have to update it. Give it to us once and then all of a sudden, you know, there's a technical foul and and we got it a second book. But at that point, then, I guess, then you're you are then under our you know, if it's our if that's our budget at that point Yes. Then we direct you what to do you what to do. So any amendment you wanna make to that that point, I would file it and present it to you, and you guys would vote on it. Okay. But to get to that point, what we are seeking, what I'm seeking is the understanding of each department. That we don't have these big surprises Right. Later, which I you know, we had the same questions last year. You know, the the MISC accounts.
Yeah. We've done a lot this last year talking about miscellaneous.
Yeah. We've done a lot this last year talking about miscellaneous.
I call them, you know, let's pad the budget accounts, whatever. And to you, no. They're very important because they go to all these different I we don't see that. We don't understand it because it's not visible to us. Yeah. We need to understand merit to what that account for them even means. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You know, I look at that and say, well, that's a slush to to where if I don't have this account, I'm just gonna move it over. Right. And, you know, and that's and here I am back at the school district, and it just bothers me against it. I know this. Again, that because So district. I would always see We would get one budget for that the teachers would see, but one budget that the board of education would see. And then it would then risk the school district's actual budget that no one saw. Well, I have never been there, so I can't see that. I know. I'm just telling you, it then it was just fluid and it mixed. And and I wanna be able to say, hey. When you give us the book, okay, council, we take care of it from there. And when we see changes made, I can look back and say, oh, that change was made upon the direction of the council. Then I can feel good about voting for that. So well, that process just I wanna understand that process as we go through so every account in there means something. So are you and let me be clear that I'm understanding what you're saying. So you would have all these department presentations
I call them, you know, let's pad the budget accounts, whatever. And to you, no. They're very important because they go to all these different I we don't see that. We don't understand it because it's not visible to us. Yeah. We need to understand merit to what that account for them even means. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You know, I look at that and say, well, that's a slush to to where if I don't have this account, I'm just gonna move it over. Right. And, you know, and that's and here I am back at the school district, and it just bothers me against it. I know this. Again, that because So district. I would always see We would get one budget for that the teachers would see, but one budget that the board of education would see. And then it would then risk the school district's actual budget that no one saw. Well, I have never been there, so I can't see that. I know. I'm just telling you, it then it was just fluid and it mixed. And and I wanna be able to say, hey. When you give us the book, okay, council, we take care of it from there. And when we see changes made, I can look back and say, oh, that change was made upon the direction of the council. Then I can feel good about voting for that. So well, that process just I wanna understand that process as we go through so every account in there means something. So are you and let me be clear that I'm understanding what you're saying. So you would have all these department presentations
and you want to have their department data as they're presenting before they present. You would want to have a chance to look at it. So, then, when they come in and present, you have some understanding, maybe some explanation of what you've seen, but also you have that opportunity to ask questions because you've already been through it. Right. Right. Is that the level you're saying is the book and no changes, or what level are you saying no changes? And preparing for that part. Part of that. Okay. That's what I understood you say, but I wanted to be sure. So we would go through that process. And after that process, we would compile that budget and say, okay. After everything we've set it down here hours, and then we're responsible at that point for all the county money. Yes. K. Yes. And that that's the way I understand. That's what I'm trying to explain. Not to have any difference of opinion on what needs to be available to the council, but timing of when and Okay. Making it meaningful information when it's presented. But But that but that level, that measure, what we're talking about in this law Mhmm. That measure participation
and you want to have their department data as they're presenting before they present. You would want to have a chance to look at it. So, then, when they come in and present, you have some understanding, maybe some explanation of what you've seen, but also you have that opportunity to ask questions because you've already been through it. Right. Right. Is that the level you're saying is the book and no changes, or what level are you saying no changes? And preparing for that part. Part of that. Okay. That's what I understood you say, but I wanted to be sure. So we would go through that process. And after that process, we would compile that budget and say, okay. After everything we've set it down here hours, and then we're responsible at that point for all the county money. Yes. K. Yes. And that that's the way I understand. That's what I'm trying to explain. Not to have any difference of opinion on what needs to be available to the council, but timing of when and Okay. Making it meaningful information when it's presented. But But that but that level, that measure, what we're talking about in this law Mhmm. That measure participation
Yeah. That will be a judgment upon our executive. And I say a judgment upon the executive, not a judgment. It'll be a judgment by him, but it'll also be upon him if he Yeah. Doesn't allow us to provide enough participation. He is visible or makes it visible to us. Right. So
Yeah. That will be a judgment upon our executive. And I say a judgment upon the executive, not a judgment. It'll be a judgment by him, but it'll also be upon him if he Yeah. Doesn't allow us to provide enough participation. He is visible or makes it visible to us. Right. So
So for my understanding, what's the software program we use again? It's Cassell. Cassell. Yeah. So
So for my understanding, what's the software program we use again? It's Cassell. Cassell. Yeah. So
It's a Utah based company. So Cassell.
It's a Utah based company. So Cassell.
If we're looking at this, is there a way for us to see a budget by expenditure account, what it was supposed to be. And so we set a 2022 budget, so you have here's the budget line. Right. And then we can see a year to date expenditure Yeah. From that out of Cassell. Mhmm. And then I'm assuming in assuming in today's environment, we should be able to click on that year to date and be able to see what makes up that account. Yeah. And then we can see how much is left. Now Right. You're gonna develop the twenty twenty three budget, but if we look at the 2022 budget as we're looking through things Yeah. Is there a way for Cassell to show the county council, rather than getting a book that almost is outdated the minute that it's printed, for me to be able to see You want to see Okay. I wanna look at this expenditure item. Here's how much we budgeted. Here's how much has been spent. Here's how much is left to spend. And as far as how much has been spent, I can click on that and see the see the outlined expenditures. Can we do that today? You're wanting that online is what you're saying? Yes. So so, yes, there is that's So that's that is actually we can do that. We have the technology.
If we're looking at this, is there a way for us to see a budget by expenditure account, what it was supposed to be. And so we set a 2022 budget, so you have here's the budget line. Right. And then we can see a year to date expenditure Yeah. From that out of Cassell. Mhmm. And then I'm assuming in assuming in today's environment, we should be able to click on that year to date and be able to see what makes up that account. Yeah. And then we can see how much is left. Now Right. You're gonna develop the twenty twenty three budget, but if we look at the 2022 budget as we're looking through things Yeah. Is there a way for Cassell to show the county council, rather than getting a book that almost is outdated the minute that it's printed, for me to be able to see You want to see Okay. I wanna look at this expenditure item. Here's how much we budgeted. Here's how much has been spent. Here's how much is left to spend. And as far as how much has been spent, I can click on that and see the see the outlined expenditures. Can we do that today? You're wanting that online is what you're saying? Yes. So so, yes, there is that's So that's that is actually we can do that. We have the technology.
The technology is there. Okay. I would caution there because I know this issue came up, so I'm gonna try to speak frankly. Reclassing an expense is not nefarious inherently.
The technology is there. Okay. I would caution there because I know this issue came up, so I'm gonna try to speak frankly. Reclassing an expense is not nefarious inherently.
Well, I'm not talking I'm not Cameron, I just asked about technology today. I'm just asking about technology too. Is that available right now? That technology is available. K. How can we get that done? I don't think I'm on trial, though. So can I explain No? I know. But no. That's not what I'm asking. We got ten minutes left, so I don't wanna get off. How can we get that? So
Well, I'm not talking I'm not Cameron, I just asked about technology today. I'm just asking about technology too. Is that available right now? That technology is available. K. How can we get that done? I don't think I'm on trial, though. So can I explain No? I know. But no. That's not what I'm asking. We got ten minutes left, so I don't wanna get off. How can we get that? So
all you receive a paycheck, so all of you are users already or your employees inside of that Cassell. So I can assign you a user rights so that you can have a login online and you would be able to see that. Every
all you receive a paycheck, so all of you are users already or your employees inside of that Cassell. So I can assign you a user rights so that you can have a login online and you would be able to see that. Every
every employee logs in. Read only. Read only. Just read only. Yeah. But when we're talking about for audit purposes, those were where the authority What I'm just talking about is we're doing a budget. It'd be great to see, hey, you've spent x through this part of the year, and you come in and asking for y in 2023.
every employee logs in. Read only. Read only. Just read only. Yeah. But when we're talking about for audit purposes, those were where the authority What I'm just talking about is we're doing a budget. It'd be great to see, hey, you've spent x through this part of the year, and you come in and asking for y in 2023.
Why would there be a difference? And that'll be part of the reports that you get for when a department comes in regardless. So that that's why I'm saying as far as reclass happens, and so that may create questions for you that I don't want you to get out in the weeds on stuff. All that information you're asking for is something we would present anyway, is all I'm saying. So So we could see it in real time rather than have printed books? Yes. Yes. Okay. That is possible. And then and then the another thing,
Why would there be a difference? And that'll be part of the reports that you get for when a department comes in regardless. So that that's why I'm saying as far as reclass happens, and so that may create questions for you that I don't want you to get out in the weeds on stuff. All that information you're asking for is something we would present anyway, is all I'm saying. So So we could see it in real time rather than have printed books? Yes. Yes. Okay. That is possible. And then and then the another thing,
Dave mentioned it. Just had a quick question on some of these, miscellaneous funds Yeah. Just so I understand it right. This comes out of miscellaneous in general. Account number 1004960600, miscellaneous expenses. Yeah. If I understand that bucket item correctly Uh-huh. We use that for Christmas bonuses, employee morale, bereavement type expenses, things like that. Is that correct?
Dave mentioned it. Just had a quick question on some of these, miscellaneous funds Yeah. Just so I understand it right. This comes out of miscellaneous in general. Account number 1004960600, miscellaneous expenses. Yeah. If I understand that bucket item correctly Uh-huh. We use that for Christmas bonuses, employee morale, bereavement type expenses, things like that. Is that correct?
Employee Christmas bonus by far is the expense there, but Okay. But yes. That's for that. We don't we don't use it for operational type things. No. Okay. Thank you. There's that belongs the $49.60, so if we broke down that account, 100 means it's the general fund, $49.60 means it's a sundry expense, which is kind of the question that we're asking. 600 has that specific. This is a miscellaneous under sundry. $49.60, we'd also find any type of thing like a land purchase or a a judgment that the county had to pay. Any of those types of things would fall under that miscellaneous bucket. So And they'd be they'd be the three digits after that $49.60
Employee Christmas bonus by far is the expense there, but Okay. But yes. That's for that. We don't we don't use it for operational type things. No. Okay. Thank you. There's that belongs the $49.60, so if we broke down that account, 100 means it's the general fund, $49.60 means it's a sundry expense, which is kind of the question that we're asking. 600 has that specific. This is a miscellaneous under sundry. $49.60, we'd also find any type of thing like a land purchase or a a judgment that the county had to pay. Any of those types of things would fall under that miscellaneous bucket. So And they'd be they'd be the three digits after that $49.60
for that type of stuff. Correct? Yes. Okay. I was asking about specifically about account 600 Yeah. Employee Christmas bonuses, morale type things, and bereavement. That's what we use that account for. Okay. Thank you. So That's all I'm I was I was circling back, kind of answering Dave's question about putting labels on miscellaneous stuff.
for that type of stuff. Correct? Yes. Okay. I was asking about specifically about account 600 Yeah. Employee Christmas bonuses, morale type things, and bereavement. That's what we use that account for. Okay. Thank you. So That's all I'm I was I was circling back, kind of answering Dave's question about putting labels on miscellaneous stuff.
We can have more discussion on that, but if you wanted a department titled summary judgments against the county, we can do that. But typically, that's not an operational thing, so it'll fall into a miscellaneous type of a thing for the county. That, that's why miscellaneous exists, is for those type of things that happen once in a while. So, I don't think they'll be totally gone. However, in this, last year and a half or so, we've talked to department heads a lot about what is in this. And I think that they are intending, if not already have been doing labeling them more clearly. So if you have a question on any department, on any account, then we have the budget transaction detail that we
We can have more discussion on that, but if you wanted a department titled summary judgments against the county, we can do that. But typically, that's not an operational thing, so it'll fall into a miscellaneous type of a thing for the county. That, that's why miscellaneous exists, is for those type of things that happen once in a while. So, I don't think they'll be totally gone. However, in this, last year and a half or so, we've talked to department heads a lot about what is in this. And I think that they are intending, if not already have been doing labeling them more clearly. So if you have a question on any department, on any account, then we have the budget transaction detail that we
Okay. We're gonna wrap this up so that we have a little bit of break before meeting starts at five. Does anybody have a quick question or a quick comment or Cameron, thank you so much for the information and thank you for this calendar, and we appreciate all that you do. And anything else? K. Thank you. Ten minutes. Alright. Sounds up. That sounds good. Workshop adjourned.
Okay. We're gonna wrap this up so that we have a little bit of break before meeting starts at five. Does anybody have a quick question or a quick comment or Cameron, thank you so much for the information and thank you for this calendar, and we appreciate all that you do. And anything else? K. Thank you. Ten minutes. Alright. Sounds up. That sounds good. Workshop adjourned.